Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Um....there is no issue with it.
That night I was hospitalized a couple of months ago the doctor's were asking me questions and he found out I was sexually active and said that I need to get on birth control. And my Dad is pretty religious.

The issue is sex is meant to be an expression of love and a bunch of other stuff...all that is expressed through the union of the couple and the birth of a child.

the Church position is that having sex without wanting the child is defective of sex's purpose.

Originally posted by Kelly_Bean
Um....there is no issue with it.
That night I was hospitalized a couple of months ago the doctor's were asking me questions and he found out I was sexually active and said that I need to get on birth control. And my Dad is pretty religious.

Why would you add that your dad was religious?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Why would you add that your dad was religious?
Why do you ask the stupidest of questions?

Originally posted by Kelly_Bean
Why do you ask the stupidest of questions?

Because he's stupid?

Originally posted by Kelly_Bean
Why do you ask the stupidest of questions?

It was funny the way you added it to the line before. As if there was some connection.

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
Because he's stupid?

I have a warped sense of humor, and I am generally a smart ass.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I have a warped sense of humor, and I am generally a smart ass. That is because you head is closer to your ass

Originally posted by Da Pittman
That is because you head is closer to your ass

Don't be jealous.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Don't be jealous. I'm smarter, my head is up my ass

Originally posted by Da Pittman
I'm smarter, my head is up my ass

Originally posted by Da Pittman
While that is nice and dandy, there is no difference in using a condom and having sex during her not fertile periods. Your intended purpose is to have sex and not get pregnant. You are still shooting your sperm in a "dead zone" be it her "fun box" or a condom, one is made of flesh and the other rubber. What about using natural spermicides, this is something that God made? I can see issues with the pill and how it works being against the faith, but having sex during her non fertile periods so she doesn't get pregnant is just the same.

Trying to read into it and reconcile all contradictions won't get you very far. For Catholics, it's an arbitrary rule in place to make them feel good about sex, but seems to make sense if you buy into their particular worldview. I, for one, can't quite figure out how a woman, or indeed a couple, is supposed to fully embrace and enjoy lovemaking if there exists strict rules about it and reasonable chance of (presumably unwanted) pregnancy at some point.

Or one could simply see it as our evolutionary procreation tool, and enjoy fully while realizing that a lack of procreation (traditional birth control) isn't blaspheming, but is normal and healthy, and also easier on one's wallet as well as the precarious population totals of the planet. But I realize that would be far too easy.

The rhythm method is also a less sure form of BC. So in theory, along with anti-abortion rules, it will increase the number of Catholic adherents. A clever way to wrap a religion's survival in fancy-sounding theology.

It's also inadvertently destructive in the Third World, where it could help curb population and disease totals. But given the church's humanitarian efforts and influence in such matters, it isn't likely to be corrected soon.

But I used to be Catholic, and know a ton of people who ignore this particular rule without letting it affect their psyche. So it is, refreshingly, largely ignored...at least in my experience.

Originally posted by Da Pittman
there is no difference in using a condom and having sex during her not fertile periods.

There is a difference. One is made by God the other is made by man.

Natural Family Planning is taking advantage of what God created.
Natrual Family Planning focuses on patience and and that sex is beyond a mere impulse that should be humored.
Condomns humor impulses and not so much the unitive and especially not the procreative aspects of the sex.
God is good condomns are not. Although (between the lesser of two evils) it is better to wear protection then not at all (I believe, God correct me if I'm wrong...)
Originally posted by Da Pittman
What about using natural spermicides, this is something that God made? having sex during her non fertile periods so she doesn't get pregnant is just the same.

But it's not the same. You recognize a clear distinction between killing in self-defense and murder. Both end up with a dead person. It's not so much the ends achieved but the means achieving them.

Originally posted by King of Blades
There is a difference. One is made by God the other is made by man.

Natural Family Planning is taking advantage of what God created.
Natrual Family Planning focuses on patience and and that sex is beyond a mere impulse that should be humored.
Condomns humor impulses and not so much the unitive and especially not the procreative aspects of the sex.
God is good condomns are not. Although (between the lesser of two evils) it is better to wear protection then not at all (I believe, God correct me if I'm wrong...)
...
I'm waiting for god to post a reply.

Originally posted by King of Blades
There is a difference. One is made by God the other is made by man.

Natural Family Planning is taking advantage of what God created.
Natrual Family Planning focuses on patience and and that sex is beyond a mere impulse that should be humored.
Condomns humor impulses and not so much the unitive and especially not the procreative aspects of the sex.
God is good condomns are not. Although (between the lesser of two evils) it is better to wear protection then not at all (I believe, God correct me if I'm wrong...)


But it's not the same. You recognize a clear distinction between killing in self-defense and murder. Both end up with a dead person. It's not so much the ends achieved but the means achieving them. OK, that really doesn't make any scene at all, how is using natural spermicide not made by God? Natural spermicides are not made by man, hence the "natural" part. You are taking advantage of what God created, even with a condom God created man to think and to create and that is a part of his creation, is it not? How is a spermicide ending up with a "dead person", do you even know what a spermicide is?

What is this "impulse" thing? So just for 2 days out of the month you have to control your impulse but the rest you can go hog wild, that makes no scene at all. Condoms do not lead to "he I got one, lets do it" anymore than "I'm only fertile 2 days of the month, so lets do it".

The end result in either situation is that you want to have sex and not get her pregnant so by pulling out, condoms or not fertile cycles it is still the same thing. All are an impulse thing only you have to watch out for 2 days out of the month and if you even count the time that sperm can live that is still only 4 days. So exactly is this curbing the impulse thing? You could say that avid users of condoms also have impulse control that they will not have sex if they don't have one.

What about the women that have to take the pill for medical reasons?

Originally posted by King of Blades
But it's not the same. You recognize a clear distinction between killing in self-defense and murder. Both end up with a dead person. It's not so much the ends achieved but the means achieving them.

That's a terrible example.

If you use spermicide the sperm just dies. If you have sex when she's no fertile the sperm just dies. If you use a condom the sperm just dies. If you don't have sex the sperm just dies.

There is no difference between any of them. In all cases you are knowingly killing the sperm or letting them die.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
That's a terrible example.

If you use spermicide the sperm just dies. If you have sex when she's no fertile the sperm just dies. If you use a condom the sperm just dies. If you don't have sex the sperm just dies.

There is no difference between any of them. In all cases you are knowingly killing the sperm or letting them die. If you shoot your load into your hand and use it as hair gel the sperm just dies.

Sorry just had to do it.

Originally posted by Digi
Trying to read into it and reconcile all contradictions won't get you very far. For Catholics, it's an arbitrary rule in place to make them feel good about sex, but seems to make sense if you buy into their particular worldview. I, for one, can't quite figure out how a woman, or indeed a couple, is supposed to fully embrace and enjoy lovemaking if there exists strict rules about it and reasonable chance of (presumably unwanted) pregnancy at some point.

Ignorance is no valid form of reasoning. Though you can't doesn't mean one can't. Ad hominum's aside, it is (in some shape or form) enjoying the sex as a transcendent for of enjoyment. Catholics view that our passions, when off from our intellect, are the cause of our follies as mortals. Only when when return the balance between our appetites and our reasoning do we then truly enjoy what God has given us. I know it sounds inflated, but take it from a person still with the faith

Originally posted by Digi

Or one could simply see it as our evolutionary procreation tool, and enjoy fully while realizing that a lack of procreation (traditional birth control) isn't blaspheming, but is normal and healthy, and also easier on one's wallet as well as the precarious population totals of the planet. But I realize that would be far too easy.


A valid perspective. Catholics recognize that Humanae Vitae cites "physical, economic, psychological and social conditions" as possibly compelling reasons to avoid pregnancy".

Originally posted by Digi

The rhythm method is also a less sure form of BC. So in theory, along with anti-abortion rules, it will increase the number of Catholic adherents. A clever way to wrap a religion's survival in fancy-sounding theology.

Rhythm is not as effective as NFP. So if one were to choose one or the other, NFP is considered the most accurate.

Originally posted by Digi

It's also inadvertently destructive in the Third World, where it could help curb population and disease totals. But given the church's humanitarian efforts and influence in such matters, it isn't likely to be corrected soon.


How so?

Originally posted by King of Blades
How so?

Converts avoid condoms but not sex and don't know birth cycles nearly as well as the rest of us. As a result STDs and over population run rampant. Christianity is very much responsible for those problems. Human stupidity doesn't help but many religious approaches to sex and birth control really do make things worse.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
That's a terrible example.

If you use spermicide the sperm just dies. If you have sex when she's no fertile the sperm just dies. If you use a condom the sperm just dies. If you don't have sex the sperm just dies.

There is no difference between any of them. In all cases you are knowingly killing the sperm or letting them die.

No it is a perfect example in my case that both killing in self defense and murder both result in a dead person. By him saying that since they both bear similar results and therefore it really doesn't which you choose, would support my claim then that murder and self-defense would be the same. But they're not because we differentiate not by the results but by the means behind them. In the same manner do we differentiate the "killing of sperm".

Originally posted by King of Blades
No it is a perfect example in my case that both killing in self defense and murder both result in a dead person. By him saying that since they both bear similar results and therefore it really doesn't which you choose, would support my claim then that murder and self-defense would be the same. But they're not because we differentiate not by the results but by the means behind them. In the same manner do we differentiate the "killing of sperm".

But you fail to explain why "killing sperm this way" and "killing sperm that way" are different. The example falls apart because you're applying to emotion and nothing else. No good differentiation between condoms and natural spermicide and killing sperm by not using them exists nor have you even attempted to present those differences, just claimed that they are there and you somehow know what they are.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Converts avoid condoms but not sex and don't know birth cycles nearly as well as the rest of us. As a result STDs and over population run rampant. Christianity is very much responsible for those problems. Human stupidity doesn't help but many religious approaches to sex and birth control really do make things worse.
Originally posted by King of Blades
Although (between the lesser of two evils) it is better to wear protection then not at all (I believe, God correct me if I'm wrong...)

Originally posted by King of Blades
No it is a perfect example in my case that both killing in self defense and murder both result in a dead person. By him saying that since they both bear similar results and therefore it really doesn't which you choose, would support my claim then that murder and self-defense would be the same. But they're not because we differentiate not by the results but by the means behind them. In the same manner do we differentiate the "killing of sperm". ??? Where did I say anything that you just posted? I said that by how the "PILL" works I can understand (based on religious faith), nothing about sperm and killing of sperm. So by that logic when I shoot my load into my wife I'm killing about 40 million people when she isn't fertile and about 39,999,999 when she isn't?

There is natural birth control, in the sense of having sex during a period that is unlikely to result in the conception of a child and there is artificial birth control, condoms etc.

If you are only have sex during periods where your spouse is unlikely to conceive then you are taking advantage of a natural loophole, but questions might be raised as to whether or not the sex is a matter of love or of lust. Are you respecting the near-sacramental nature of sex?

Artificial birth control is totally forbidden because it is totally contrary to the divine plan and the nature of sex.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Converts avoid condoms but not sex and don't know birth cycles nearly as well as the rest of us. As a result STDs and over population run rampant. Christianity is very much responsible for those problems. Human stupidity doesn't help but many religious approaches to sex and birth control really do make things worse.

Originally posted by King of Blades
Although (between the lesser of two evils) it is better to wear protection then not at all (I believe, God correct me if I'm wrong...)

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Human stupidity doesn't help.

Besides, the Church isn't handing out condoms to them on the basis that "God is good, condoms are not." So, yeah, while I'm usually the one defending religion here there's really no doubt that Christian evangelism in the Third World is doing huge amounts of damage.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Besides, the Church isn't handing out condoms to them on the basis that "God is good, condoms are not." So, yeah, while I'm usually the one defending religion here there's really no doubt that Christian evangelism in the Third World is doing huge amounts of damage.

To their bodies or to their souls?

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
There is natural birth control, in the sense of having sex during a period that is unlikely to result in the conception of a child and there is artificial birth control, condoms etc.

If you are only have sex during periods where your spouse is unlikely to conceive then you are taking advantage of a natural loophole, but questions might be raised as to whether or not the sex is a matter of love or of lust. Are you respecting the near-sacramental nature of sex?

Artificial birth control is totally forbidden because it is totally contrary to the divine plan and the nature of sex.

God gave us a brain to use. Anything we create is a natural loophole, unless you think that aliens gave us condoms and scientists have been desperately trying to cover it up for decades.

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
To their bodies or to their souls?

Both. If you spread suffering among the them you do nothing but turn people away from true faithfulness.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
God gave us a brain to use. Anything we create is a natural loophole, unless you think that aliens gave us condoms and scientists have been desperately trying to cover it up for decades.

God gave man a brain, what that brain produces is considered man made and therefore unnatural- its why we would describe flying in a plane as unnatural.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Both. If you spread suffering among the them you do nothing but turn people away from true faithfulness.

Unearned suffering is redemptive.

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
God gave man a brain, what that brain produces is considered man made and therefore unnatural- its why we would describe flying in a plane as unnatural.

So, piety is unnatural?

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
Unearned suffering is redemptive.

It's still suffering and does not redeem people who are unable to understand it and so turn away from God.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
So, piety is unnatural?
Man was made to worship God. Piety seems something he has had an active role in creating, through the saints and the prophets.



Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
It's still suffering and does not redeem people who are unable to understand it and so turn away from God.
I do not pity them.

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
Man was made to worship God. Piety seems something he has had an active role in creating, through the saints and the prophets.

Saints become saints after the fact. Prophets do not create piety they create prophecy (from their brains).

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
I do not pity them.

So you're a prick?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
But you fail to explain why "killing sperm this way" and "killing sperm that way" are different. The example falls apart because you're applying to emotion and nothing else. No good differentiation between condoms and natural spermicide and killing sperm by not using them exists nor have you even attempted to present those differences, just claimed that they are there and you somehow know what they are.

Not at all, I mentioned clearly before that "Catholics view that our passions, when off from our intellect, are the cause of our follies as mortals. Only when when return the balance between our appetites and our reasoning do we then truly enjoy what God has given us."

Killing sperm by wearing a condom or by spermicide are both means of accomplishing a goal but by means other then what God originally intended. Steming from the will of God is sinful.

Before I lose track of myself (cause I'm multi-tasking here) here is what I'm saying:

The "they both accomplish the same thing/no differentiation" is clearly an invalid form of argument seeing that you don't apply that same reasoning to murder/self-defense.

The reason that NFP is better then rhythm is statistics. (Natural vs. Natural)
The reason why NFP is better then spermicide/condoms is because they are both artificial remedies that plays a direct role in the killing of sperm and go against the intentions of God during creation. (Natural vs. Unnatrual and playing God).
Hence why anything other then NFP is discouraged and/or prohibited.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Saints become saints after the fact. Prophets do not create piety they create prophecy (from their brains).
They are not saints when they are alive, all prophets taught the virtue of piety. They do not create the prophecy- they are given it by God. As God told Moses who asked how he would know what to say when confronting Pharaoh, God replied that he would speak through him and tell him what to say.


Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
So you're a prick?
I don't recall Job giving up despite all the hardships he was put through.

Originally posted by Da Pittman
??? Where did I say anything that you just posted? I said that by how the "PILL" works I can understand (based on religious faith), nothing about sperm and killing of sperm. So by that logic when I shoot my load into my wife I'm killing about 40 million people when she isn't fertile and about 39,999,999 when she isn't?

That was directed to Systematic Chaos, not to you.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Besides, the Church isn't handing out condoms to them on the basis that "God is good, condoms are not." So, yeah, while I'm usually the one defending religion here there's really no doubt that Christian evangelism in the Third World is doing huge amounts of damage.

I am aware, and where we (Christians) aim for the fact of both no condoms and higher emotional transcendence, we usuall never get one or the other (or in many cases either). But we have to stand by what we say. The doctrines don't need to change, the peopel do.

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
I don't recall Job giving up despite all the hardships he was put through.

The Job answered the LORD, and said, I know that thou canst do everything, and that no though can be withholden from thee. Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not. Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee and declare unto me. I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but not mine eye seeth thee. Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes. (Job 42:1-6)

Originally posted by King of Blades
The Job answered the LORD, and said, I know that thou canst do everything, and that no though can be withholden from thee. Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not. Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee and declare unto me. I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but not mine eye seeth thee. Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes. (Job 42:1-6)

He never gave up...a temporary loss of faith perhaps...but he continued to struggle through...

Either why Job teaches us the importance of struggling through no matter what we face and keeping the fact no matter how hard it is...for His ways are not our ways.

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
He never gave up...a temporary loss of faith perhaps...but he continued to struggle through...

Either why Job teaches us the importance of struggling through no matter what we face and keeping the fact no matter how hard it is...for His ways are not our ways.

No no, you're right he never gave up to man. But when God said you did he said you're right. God only said this to humble Job (not that that was neccessary) but merely that God has final say. And indeed God was just and fair and said to his friends "you're all a**holes" (I think that's the King of Blades versions whistling)

Originally posted by Da Pittman
OK, that really doesn't make any scene at all, how is using natural spermicide not made by God? Natural spermicides are not made by man, hence the "natural" part. You are taking advantage of what God created, even with a condom God created man to think and to create and that is a part of his creation, is it not? How is a spermicide ending up with a "dead person", do you even know what a spermicide is?

What is this "impulse" thing? So just for 2 days out of the month you have to control your impulse but the rest you can go hog wild, that makes no scene at all. Condoms do not lead to "he I got one, lets do it" anymore than "I'm only fertile 2 days of the month, so lets do it".

The end result in either situation is that you want to have sex and not get her pregnant so by pulling out, condoms or not fertile cycles it is still the same thing. All are an impulse thing only you have to watch out for 2 days out of the month and if you even count the time that sperm can live that is still only 4 days. So exactly is this curbing the impulse thing? You could say that avid users of condoms also have impulse control that they will not have sex if they don't have one.

What about the women that have to take the pill for medical reasons?
Originally posted by King of Blades
That was directed to Systematic Chaos, not to you. Well first off am I not worthy for you to respond to my questions, after all I did start this thread.

Second, you referred to my comment as a basis to your post and your comment as to what I posted was totally incorrect.

Questions asked.

1. Do you even know what a natural spermicide is?
2. What about women that take the pill for medical reasons, are they in sin?
3. How is killing sperm killing people?

You can create a natural spermicide just by your diet, this help to prevent the implantation of the egg. How is this any different then wearing a condom? These are things that God created, we have to eat and some people choose to eat these God created things with the benefit of helping to prevent pregnancy. Women can use natural lubricant such as aloe vera, lemon juice and yams just to name a few that act as a spermicide, these all were created by God.

Originally posted by Da Pittman
Well first off am I not worthy for you to respond to my questions,

NO! No shut up.

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
NO! No shut up. I love you too

the catholic church took the breed them out method, from the mex. catholic church,, the same plan with the america plan with mex.. only on a global scale... zinc

Originally posted by King of Blades
Not at all, I mentioned clearly before that "Catholics view that our passions, when off from our intellect, are the cause of our follies as mortals. Only when when return the balance between our appetites and our reasoning do we then truly enjoy what God has given us."

I agree with that. Sadly it is totally unrelated to the use of condoms or spermicide.

Originally posted by King of Blades
Killing sperm by wearing a condom or by spermicide are both means of accomplishing a goal but by means other then what God originally intended. Steming from the will of God is sinful.

Before I lose track of myself (cause I'm multi-tasking here) here is what I'm saying:

The "they both accomplish the same thing/no differentiation" is clearly an invalid form of argument seeing that you don't apply that same reasoning to murder/self-defense.

The reason that NFP is better then rhythm is statistics. (Natural vs. Natural)
The reason why NFP is better then spermicide/condoms is because they are both artificial remedies that plays a direct role in the killing of sperm and go against the intentions of God during creation. (Natural vs. Unnatrual and playing God).
Hence why anything other then NFP is discouraged and/or prohibited.

How do you know that wearing a condom or using spermicide are things that God never intended? Is this just an arbitrary distinction you've drawn or is there some sort of basis for it?

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
I don't recall Job giving up despite all the hardships he was put through.

I recall Job being an extraordinary man.

Originally posted by Da Pittman
Well first off am I not worthy for you to respond to my questions, after all I did start this thread.

For the record, you creating this thread has absolutely no say as to whom I direct my comments. You presented the topic and the topic is what I address. If you happen to be the target of my responses then I will speak to you, if somebody else then it's somebody else. Why speak to the wall if your audience is the bird?


Originally posted by Da Pittman
Second, you referred to my comment as a basis to your post and your comment as to what I posted was totally incorrect.

Though this is true, because that's what a response usually entails, I addressed the "not the same" matter. That, and where I never do this in a conversation, I will place my foot down and say that it is correct. Given the case that both examples produce similar results with two separate means of achieving them BY THE PRECEDENCE that one case applies one better then the other (the ends do not justify the means) it behooves the similar case to follow suit. Therefore we see that though spermicides, NFP, and a condom both achieve the same thing, there are amongst them one better then the other. Which that one is (personal reasons aside) has not been mentioned nor is it part of the argument that neither of the cases allows the "they're both the same" case.


Originally posted by Da Pittman
Questions asked.

1. Do you even know what a natural spermicide is?
2. What about women that take the pill for medical reasons, are they in sin?
3. How is killing sperm killing people?


1). Yes
2). The pill is one of many medical remedies. There are others (and better if I recall correctly) medicines and/or "pills" that would deal with the given disease.
3). Nothing I ever said formed a correlation in sperm and people. Methods of killing either was the topic of my conversation (as the above mentioned explains clearer).

However I want to touch base about something in your second question. Please understand, what makes the pill so condemning within the Catholic church and other Christian Denominations is the fact that it works as an abortifacient. And abortion is irreconcilable in the eyes of any Christian and/or Catholic doctrine. Therefore let us presume this scenario:

If Sally was told by Dr. Joe that she needed to take the pill for illness-X, and Sally is not sexually active, then there is no abortion on the bases of the pill. Theoretically, since there is no abortion or threatening of the child's life, there is no sin. However when she succumbs to temptation or has a moment of weakness the abortion is performed and Sally's in some deep trouble. But this is only the case (given the above premise to be true) that taking the pill without being sexually active (and with no other alternative) would be, within the realm of theory, to be perfectly alright.

Originally posted by Da Pittman
You can create a natural spermicide just by your diet, this help to prevent the implantation of the egg. How is this any different then wearing a condom? These are things that God created, we have to eat and some people choose to eat these God created things with the benefit of helping to prevent pregnancy. Women can use natural lubricant such as aloe vera, lemon juice and yams just to name a few that act as a spermicide, these all were created by God.

Yes but aloe vera (the cream I'm guessing, not the actual plant juice), yams, and even lemon juices aren't taken in their complete natural form. They are either processed or manufactured or created in which case none of the above mentioned are natural at all. Further more, they go beyond the intended use of the item. It's not because they can be used as "natural spermicides" (and I quote to use the term loosely) that they ought to be used as such.



It comes a hell of a lot closer to being truly natural, but never closer to being correct.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I agree with that. Sadly it is totally unrelated to the use of condoms or spermicide.

Quite the contrary it has everything to do with it. People have sex based on the impulse. Not that this is bad, but impulsive sex is not love at it's fullest. Consensual and understood and chosen sex transcends beyond the "bodily function" and into the realm of true unity between two people. Condoms and spermicides are immediate remedies for impulsive desires. Where waiting "tempers desires" and allows choice and reasoning to decide (not the thing between your legs) when you wish to partake in the act.


Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
How do you know that wearing a condom or using spermicide are things that God never intended? Is this just an arbitrary distinction you've drawn or is there some sort of basis for it?

All bad things are unnatural, but not all unnatural things are bad.

Man plays God when wearing a condom or using spermicide. He is deciding what life he wants to bring in and what life he doesn't. The woman is playing God when she takes the pill and aborts the fetus, by ending a life she does not wish to begin. Man plays God artificially and it is in these artificial means where there is immorality. Not arbitrarily; logically.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I recall Job being an extraordinary man.

The story of Job was to give the deuteronomic code the finger
bad things can happen to good people

Originally posted by King of Blades
All bad things are unnatural, but not all unnatural things are bad.

Man plays God when wearing a condom or using spermicide. He is deciding what life he wants to bring in and what life he doesn't. The woman is playing God when she takes the pill and aborts the fetus, by ending a life she does not wish to begin. Man plays God artificially and it is in these artificial means where there is immorality. Not arbitrarily; logically.

You're completely batshit insane.

Originally posted by King of Blades
I have yet to find a diet whose effects are spermicide. I have read of food altering the sperm itself but never to the point of its obliteration. If you could provide cases of dietary spermicide (natural perferably) I could better address your point. All the cases I have read into are spermicides that are applied.
I didn't say that eating food was a form of spermicide, I said that certain foods can act like birth control. By changing the bodies hormones and chemicals this can make it so that the body has a harder time implanting the egg or even fertilizing it. Having a bad diet or eating disorder can also cause havoc with the reproduction process or the environment for the sperm to live.

Originally posted by King of Blades
Sex is both unitive and procreative. To have sex not for babies (for either economic reasons or the couple is not ready to have a baby) that doesn't mean they can't have sex. Hence the Natural Family Planning. What about my question? If a woman is on birth control for medical reasons they can not have sex by your opinion? What if you take a drug that makes your eggs not able to be fertilized? Life didn't take place because the egg was dead.

If you can not see the contradictions in what they teach there is not much I can help you with, you keep grabbing at straws to prove your point then throw them away as you need them to make another one. Can you show me one passage in the Bible that says wearing condoms is a sin?

Maybe you should check this out.
http://www.biblestudy.org/question/are-methods-preventing-pregnancy-permitted-in-bible.html

Nothing in the Bible says that you can't use birth control from spermicides to condoms and what ever as long as the sperm doesn't implant with the egg.

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
You know...I don't believe you have the right to question Catholic birth control...

Why not? I'm married to a Catholic and was married in a Catholic church and had to take all the Catholic classes, and to this day none (except for my wife) knows that I'm an Atheist.

Originally posted by Da Pittman
Why not? I'm married to a Catholic and was married in a Catholic church and had to take all the Catholic classes, and to this day none (except for my wife) knows that I'm an Atheist.

...a wolf in sheep's clothing....

I will contact your Diocese immediately!

i rather be the wolf then a lamb in the field...

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
i rather be the wolf then a lamb in the field...



Enjoy mauling and tearing up innocents?

Rapist.

So catholic priest don't wear condoms when they ream alter boys? That's messed up.
Yeah, i'll go with the church, they're obviously experts when it comes to contraception...

Originally posted by Fist
So catholic priest don't wear condoms when they ream alter boys? That's messed up.
Yeah, i'll go with the church, they're obviously experts when it comes to contraception...

WOW

Originally posted by Fist
So catholic priest don't wear condoms when they ream alter boys? That's messed up.
Yeah, i'll go with the church, they're obviously experts when it comes to contraception...

Considering that children (especially male ones) can't get pregnant in the first place I can't begin to work out your line of thought.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Considering that children (especially male ones) can't get pregnant in the first place I can't begin to work out your line of thought.

He was just pointing out that because some priests are pedophiles the entire Catholic Church is totally wrong...not just on contraception though, probably everything.

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
He was just pointing out that because some priests are pedophiles the entire Catholic Church is totally wrong.

I was pointing out that he's an idiot on multiple levels.

Though, to follow the way he's thinking, wouldn't pedophilia be okay by church standards? Penis goes in vagina just like God intended and all?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I was pointing out that he's an idiot on multiple levels.

Though, to follow the way he's thinking, wouldn't pedophilia be okay by church standards? Penis goes in vagina just like God intended and all?

I think your missing the point Sym...a priest raped a boy. Disscussion over, the Catholic Church is now totally wrong in everything.

=/=



For future reference.

Similarly: Pedophilia =/= Homosexuality.



The two can overlap, but neither one is fully inclusive of the other.

Edit: *You're*

"I think you're missing"

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
=/=



For future reference.

Similarly: Pedophilia =/= Homosexuality.

The priests did pretty much all have sex with young boys.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
=/=



For future reference.

Similarly: Pedophilia =/= Homosexuality.



The two can overlap, but neither one is fully inclusive of the other.

Edit: *You're*

"I think you're missing"

Thanks, also what does =/= mean?

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
Thanks, also what does =/= mean?

Not equal to.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Not equal to. Or you can use !=

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I was pointing out that he's an idiot on multiple levels.

Though, to follow the way he's thinking, wouldn't pedophilia be okay by church standards? Penis goes in vagina just like God intended and all?


I agree with you, male children can't get pregnant. I guess... I got a "C" in biology, so i'm not sure. And i said condom, which i'm pretty sure is a contraceptive, correct me if i'm wrong.
And apparently pedophilia is okay by the church, or at least turning a blind eye is...
I may be an idiot (most likely i am,) but when it comes to contraception and procreation, i prefer a doctors advice over the churches.

Originally posted by Fist
I agree with you, male children can't get pregnant. I guess... I got a "C" in biology, so i'm not sure. And i said condom, which i'm pretty sure is a contraceptive, correct me if i'm wrong.
And apparently pedophilia is okay by the church, or at least turning a blind eye is...
I may be an idiot (most likely i am,) but when it comes to contraception and procreation, i prefer a doctors advice over the churches.

You know quite a few doctors are paedophiles too...

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
You know quite a few doctors are paedophiles too...

Therefore all doctors (and, indeed, all of medical science) are wrong too.

QED

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
You know quite a few doctors are paedophiles too...

blasphemy

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
You know quite a few doctors are paedophiles too...

Sure... The world is filled with sick fcks.
I'll still go with the person with the MD.

Originally posted by Fist
Sure... The world is filled with sick fcks.
I'll still go with the person with the MD.

The Church has some people (a lot actually) with MDs.