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Well....?

What is this all about ?

Hell no, Ellis was an A S S HOLE. He deserved what he got.

It was sweet when they killed Ellis.

yup. I got wood.

Excited by the corpse, eh..?


Does that make it "Dead wood"...?

Mahogany.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Excited by the corpse, eh..?


Does that make it "Dead wood"...?

Interesting. Timothy Olyphant, who was in Die Hard 4, was in the series Deadwood. hmm

Oh, and Ellis had it coming.

The strange intertwine-edness of it all...!!!

Synchronicities abound!

Heh. 4-0.

Not looking too good for Robinson.

Originally posted by =Tired Hiker=
Interesting. Timothy Olyphant, who was in Die Hard 4, was in the series Deadwood. hmm

Good show, that. Pissed it was cancelled.

On that note, Al Swearengen would beat Riggs and then have Wu feed his corpse to the pigs.

Originally posted by Kazenji
What is this all about ?

Well for those that didnt know, its a situation in Die Hard:

At the end of movie the deputy cheif of the LA police Dwayne T. Robinson wanted to charge McClane..

But basically Ellis was cokehead knob who tried to - in the middle of a confident sniffed up moment - negotiate with the Hans Gruber the main bad guy as a nightmareish yuppy appeaser go between Gruber and McClane.

The resulting deal was that Ellis gets on the radio and lures McClane to give Hans back the detonators to the C4 that Han's posse had planted all over the building:"enough to orbit Arnold Schwarzenegger".
He lies and (whether he knows it or not -I like to think that he knew) protects Holly by saying that it was HE who invited McClane and furthermore than they had been friends for years..

But McClane over the radio tells Hans that Ellis is lying and Hans shoots Ellis in the head, killinmg him and giving us all in the audience a good laugh.

Later on after the hostages are free and the bad guys are doomed, the Chief of police comes out and instead of being a stand up guy and congratulating McClane, he comes out telling McClane that he has it all to answer for: The damage to the building and destruction of property, and Ellis' murder...!

This was the deputy chief of police....!!!
How could/would he have pressed the case.........?

Great summary, Sadako.

One thing about Robinson that cracked me up was how he vehemently dismissed any hunches Powell had about McClane, yet he took everything about Ellis' unseen death as stone-cold truth.

Nope, Ellis own fault for being a dick head

Originally posted by botankus
Great summary, Sadako.

One thing about Robinson that cracked me up was how he vehemently dismissed any hunches Powell had about McClane, yet he took everything about Ellis' unseen death as stone-cold truth.

Thanks, man.

Yeah that was some amazing bias on display there.

He strikes me as a total and utter ego tripper and his fears of 'lack of control' in the situation seemed to be calling the shots there.
Its almost comedic at times.

How did Powell not shoot him...?
I'd like to see Robinson mouth off at him like that AFTER Powell had regained the confidence to maim and kill again....


20 years on and that "Ass hole...? Ass hole..? Im not the one who just got butt f***ed on national TV...Dwwaaaaaaayyyyyyynee.." bit still cracks me up.

Originally posted by Bicnarok
Nope, Ellis own fault for being a dick head

This is what I have always thought, but due to my mission of counting all McClane's kills in all of the Die Hard movies, to be accurate and truely beyond dispute, I wanted -before counting- to clarify whether McClane should in any way be credited for the kill or not.

Looking like its undisputed that its a pure 100% agreed no so far though.

Im going on the count-through tonight though.
I'll be sure to post the results.

FTW

Die Hard:
Dead in entire movie: 19
Killed by McClane: 9

Die Hard 2:
Dead in entire movie: 37 (PLUS plane load of passengers)
Killed by McClane: 23

Die Hard with a vengence:
Dead in entire movie: 24 (PLUS undisclosed no of deaths in 1st bombing)
Killed by McClane: 13

Die Hard 4.0: (Plus undisclosed death toll when traffic screwed with)
Dead in entire movie: 35
Kills by McClane: 11

ellis was a cock theres only room enough for one cock in a john McClane movie so that nigga had to die.

You are right. He was eyeing up Holly pretty good early on.

His fate was sealed from then on.

He was responsible for his own death when he gave Hans the idea to actually kill him if McClane didn't comply. "John, tell them where the detonators are or they are going to kill me" I believed he said.

Thats what you get for being high in a room full of terrorists. At least he had a Coke before he died, or was it Pepsi?

It was Coke. Karl poured it for him.

Now you mention it, that scene could have been great as a dark and bizarre Pepsi taste challenge advert.

I wonder how long Hans was fooled by Ellis's charade?

Id say he was skeptical all the way, but allowed Ellis to live thanks to Ellis' at least identifying McClane for him.. Up to the point he got his gun out with that curious and dubious look on his Chevvy. That seemed to me to be the point where he had seen enough to confirm that skepticism is how ive always read it, personally.

Yup. Another question, Ellis was definitely an *******, but was he wrong fro doing what he did?

For attempting to subvert Guber's plan, perhaps for wasting time and effort when Gruber's concentration was needed all over the place already in that situation...? He did want this all to be "smooth, efficient, adult and cooperative" after all... You know how efficient most Germans like things to be....

Maybe he, being pretty good at reading people, just didnt like him right off of the bat and looked at him as a deceptive weasel that he was and though "Fu** it" when Ellis had made this venture needlessly complicated...!

Pretty clear Ellis was some kinda slick ass sales rep or something like that.

And a coked up dick/high-as-giraffe-pussy grinning idiot.
(Note the look Hans gives him as he passes Ellis during the "Joesephhhhhhhh Yoshinnnnnnnnobu Takagiiiiiiiiii" bit.)

Guess Ellis thought he could play Hans like a fiddle, and he got pwned.

Yup. That kind of undue arrogance will often end that way.
It was a classic come-uppance scene for sure.

That grin he wore as he sipped his coke was classic haermm

It was.

The grin of a man who was immersed in shit, who now knows he is totally surmerged in shit.

Yeah, I figure he knew "Holy SHIT dude I am SCREWED." haermm

Im glad it wasnt a pepsi... That wouldnt have been fitting at all for a Coke addict.

McTiernan going for accuracy there...

Gotta love that symbolism

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Well....?

Hell no, he deserved it.

I always thought it was the perfect segue into the human element of it all, even if John didn't care about Ellis...because as Hans says "Sooner or later, I might get to someone you do care about."

If I'm not mistaken, what follows afterwards is Powell's discussion on his accidental shooting and a bigger role for Holly.

You're right.

Genius flow by McTiernan.

Got a question in two parts for Sadako:

Watched it again for the millionth time this past weekend mainly to check out the goofs listed at imdb.com, but I also thought about two lines that always bugged the hell out of me.

1) When McTiernan cuts away from the action in Holly's office, you hear Ellis' voice say (sic), "What am I, a method actor Hans? Put away the gun - this is radio, not television."

What do you make of that? Does Ellis actually think he's living out the role of heroic "character?" I say yes. And if so, do you think he's doing it primarily because he's hopped up on coke or to impress Holly...or both?

2) When John first talks to Holly after Ellis has left, John says (sic), "(Ellis) has his eye on you," to which she responds (sic), "I've got my eye on his private bathroom."

WTF?? This always bugged me. First off, John is in Ellis' private bathroom, right? I assume so because its mentioned. It's hard to tell because I think the camera cuts from Holly's office to the bathroom. And maybe its just me, but even though Holly may be "using" Ellis for his luxuries, come on Holly! Private F***ing Bathroom? Holly, you're better than that! Or maybe the line is something simple, like she's physically wants to lead John inside Ellis' private bathroom at that moment to clean up.



Or maybe I'm not seeing something in both cases. Care to offer your opinion?

Originally posted by botankus
Got a question in two parts for Sadako:

Watched it again for the millionth time this past weekend mainly to check out the goofs listed at imdb.com, but I also thought about two lines that always bugged the hell out of me.

1) When McTiernan cuts away from the action in Holly's office, you hear Ellis' voice say (sic), "What am I, a method actor Hans? Put away the gun - this is radio, not television."

What do you make of that? Does Ellis actually think he's living out the role of heroic "character?" I say yes. And if so, do you think he's doing it primarily because he's hopped up on coke or to impress Holly...or both?

2) When John first talks to Holly after Ellis has left, John says (sic), "(Ellis) has his eye on you," to which she responds (sic), "I've got my eye on his private bathroom."

WTF?? This always bugged me. First off, John is in Ellis' private bathroom, right? I assume so because its mentioned. It's hard to tell because I think the camera cuts from Holly's office to the bathroom. And maybe its just me, but even though Holly may be "using" Ellis for his luxuries, come on Holly! Private F***ing Bathroom? Holly, you're better than that! Or maybe the line is something simple, like she's physically wants to lead John inside Ellis' private bathroom at that moment to clean up.



Or maybe I'm not seeing something in both cases. Care to offer your opinion?

Great post. Good points.

1) I think 'both'. The old marching powder no doubt convinced him that he had it in him to pull off bullshitting Hans or even ending the situation with a bit of Yuppie arrogance in negotiation.
I think that he may have wanted to portray himself heroically for Holly's benefit too. Yeah I think Holly was using him a little.

Now I might be wrong but in the book, Joe Leland is McClane, and Holly is his daughter. I think she was married to Harry Ellis.
I wanna get hold of the book again. Tw'was bleaaaaaak.

2) I always thought it was Holly's or maybe even a communal one.
Very interesting point, you raise there. I'll look it this....

If its Holly's and Ellis' bathroom is bigger/better and she is just covetting it, then no surprise that she wants to work with Yuppie vermin, as she'd fit in well with that ambitious/greedy b*tch ethos.

If its Ellis' the man she musta reallllllllllllllllllllllllllllly been stringing him on.... Private bathroom.....? She had damn well had better swallowed and the whole deal for that.. lolz

So either way, I feel REAL sorry for McClane, man.....

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Great post. Good points.

1) I think 'both'. The old marching powder no doubt convinced him that he had it in him to pull off bullshitting Hans or even ending the situation with a bit of Yuppie arrogance in negotiation.
I think that he may have wanted to portray himself heroically for Holly's benefit too. Yeah I think Holly was using him a little.

Now I might be wrong but in the book, Joe Leland is McClane, and Holly is his daughter. I think she was married to Harry Ellis.
I wanna get hold of the book again. Tw'was bleaaaaaak.

2) I always thought it was Holly's or maybe even a communal one.
Very interesting point, you raise there. I'll look it this....

If its Holly's and Ellis' bathroom is bigger/better and she is just covetting it, then no surprise that she wants to work with Yuppie vermin, as she'd fit in well with that ambitious/greedy b*tch ethos.

If its Ellis' the man she musta reallllllllllllllllllllllllllllly been stringing him on.... Private bathroom.....? She had damn well had better swallowed and the whole deal for that.. lolz

So either way, I feel REAL sorry for McClane, man.....
Great insight. After reading your opinion on the private bathroom, I think I'm going to agree with the fact that it's Holly's and she is more than ready to vault up the corporate ladder.........but wait--after Takagi's death, she says that "everyone is looking to her" since Hans murdered her boss. Is that before Ellis' death? If so, then she's next in line. Why would Ellis have a bigger private bathroom than Holly? Or is Ellis next in line and no one wants to look to him because he's a dickface? Hmmmmmm.......



And about Ellis' imaginary invincibility, it's ironic as hell that by perceiving himself as a hero, he also perceives himself as someone who is "above" being killed by someone else. Ironic considering the title of the film.

Originally posted by botankus
Great insight. After reading your opinion on the private bathroom, I think I'm going to agree with the fact that it's Holly's and she is more than ready to vault up the corporate ladder.........but wait--after Takagi's death, she says that "everyone is looking to her" since Hans murdered her boss. Is that before Ellis' death? If so, then she's next in line. Why would Ellis have a bigger private bathroom than Holly? Or is Ellis next in line and no one wants to look to him because he's a dickface? Hmmmmmm.......



And about Ellis' imaginary invincibility, it's ironic as hell that by perceiving himself as a hero, he also perceives himself as someone who is "above" being killed by someone else. Ironic considering the title of the film.

LOL it is indeed. Holy shit I hadnt made that connection lolz

I think youre absoluely right that everyone rightly has him down as the office dickface. I wouldnt look to someone so devoid of charisma.
And this is pure speculation: But he strikes me as the kind of guy who got to where he did in that cutthroat time of business by selling out any friends he made have had long ago, stabbing anyone in the back friend or foe, to get that private bathroom. So there is a nice justice that he gets used like that, I guess.