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"I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent." 1 Timothy 2:12

Should women be ordained as Priests or even Bishops in Christian Churches? What about other religions such as Islam.

For extra fun, once you've answered the question...replace the world women with Black People...does that change your perspective.

(If you want to bring up evolution as an argument for differences between women and men thats fine...but please Christian Fundamentalists don't turn this into another "Evoltuion is wrong" thread.)

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
"I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent." 1 Timothy 2:12

ah, my namesake

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
Should women be ordained as Priests or even Bishops in Christian Churches?

I think it should be up to individual churches, as they should be allowed to believe what ever it is they want, and so long as church membership is entirely optional.

However, regardless of scripture, I think it is wrong for there to be such inequality, though I would not want to force that on anyone.

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
What about other religions such as Islam.

Not that there aren't problematic verses in the Quran, (and I honestly am in no position to compare the 2 religions from a feminine perspective) but a lot of what is considered "anti-woman" in Islam comes from social practices rather than strictly through scripture (I'm sure it is the same with Christianity).

I would say the same though, it is their choice but I personally believe such a inequality is wrong.

i see no problem against women being priest ministers ect ect.. teachers of faith.

the problem comes when the religion specifically states otherwise...
but if it is a passing mention from some random person in the scripture and not specifically stated by the founder then i just take it as an opinion...

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
i see no problem against women being priest ministers ect ect.. teachers of faith.

the problem comes when the religion specifically states otherwise...
but if it is a passing mention from some random person in the scripture and not specifically stated by the founder then i just take it as an opinion...

So would you say Saint Paul's teachings, although apparently directly inspired by Christ, are not enough to bar women from the priesthood? Since Jesus never said they couldn't be priests?

the key word is "over a man". Men are supposed to be the protectors/defenders and deciders in critical moments of time biblicaly. It makes sense that with this being the ideal family role for the woman, they shouldn't command men.

Also it isn't referring to being a pastor or a schoolteacher. What it is referring to is when in ancient times disciples of a rabbi would follow that rabbi around and do everything they did, even to be covered in the dust of their master was an honor. There was nothing wrong in this period of time with learning a trade or something from a woman, but men were not supposed to worship the ground that the women walked on and do everything they did.
_bOMkdLf_JE this is very enlightening about that idea.

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
So would you say Saint Paul's teachings, although apparently directly inspired by Christ, are not enough to bar women from the priesthood? Since Jesus never said they couldn't be priests?

exacto mondo ......... unless it is God/jesus, Allah or buddha specifically stating it then it is not divine law of the scripture.

i dont view it as being completely divinely inspired without it having some human bias of its cultural, political time. when it is coming from a man whom the religion is not even based on. i just see it as some one riding the authority of others to state his opinion as fact.

its really hard because any bible verse could be discredited via that method, as nothing is written directly by god. I see it as misinterpreted. God even had female judges and stuff in the bible :/.

And wild shadow, aren't u an atheist?

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
its really hard because any bible verse could be discredited via that method, as nothing is written directly by god. I see it as misinterpreted. God even had female judges and stuff in the bible :/.

And wild shadow, aren't u an atheist?


pretty sure i never claimed myself as an athiest.. i even went so far to correct a member in another thread to not refer me as one..

but specifically focusing in certain fundamentalist religious views, i would be considered an athiest, unbeliever or a gentile..ect ect..
sadangel

me, i just view things differently an far more encompassing with the divine..things are seldom so black and white, i view religion the same.

hypocrite

Originally posted by Wild Shadow


..things are seldom so black and white...


Indeed, only a Sith deals in absolutes

http://mattcbr.files.wordpress.com/2006/09/palpatine004.jpg

I believe in the entirety of the bible. Anything that sounds mildly illogical (like this) can be explained as a mistranslation (hebrew-->latin-->old english-->new english is alot of steps to take for any statement.

Hell is a real place and you will be sent there at the first sign of defiance.


didanyonecatchtheportalquote?

There are absolutes, some things are ultimate absolutes, and it will always stay that way. For instance: is michael weston in my sig? I'd have to say yes, and by saying yes i'm confirming that he is. Yes or no are both absolutes. He can't kind of be in my sig.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
I believe in the entirety of the bible. Anything that sounds mildly illogical (like this) can be explained as a mistranslation (hebrew-->latin-->old english-->new english is alot of steps to take for any statement.

Hell is a real place and you will be sent there at the first sign of defiance.


didanyonecatchtheportalquote?


i though hell was a translation to sheol a place where spirits rested/slept. at least the hebrew version with no torment punishment.. the christian version was the same but only difference was they were waiting for jesus to take them to heaven...




any who i though about the replacing the word woman with black and my statement still made sense.. unless the religion specifically forbades it, it is still fine....which is why i dont see a problem with gays not being allowed to marry in a church.. because the bible strictly forbids such acts may not be very tolerant but hey it is the religions some chose to follow. with the rules included.


hypocrite

Archaic patriarchal religious practices give license for feminist movements to be too extreme for their own good, and lend credence to religious detractors who say that even modern incarnations of popular religions aren't up with the times. Anything to put them on equal footing in mainstream Christianity (besides giving lip service to the idea without actually extending privileges) is good in my book.

So, in summary, women should stay in the kitchen, making me sammiches and babies.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
didanyonecatchtheportalquote?

*raises hand*

woot

there are three spiritual kingdoms according to my religion, sheol, hell, and heaven. we will all rest in sheol until judgement day comes and we shall be put into one or another. Jesus actually meant "the lake of fire" and that was not lost in translation.

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
For extra fun, once you've answered the question...replace the world women with Black People...does that change your perspective.

no

Originally posted by Digi
Archaic patriarchal religious practices give license for feminist movements to be too extreme for their own good, and lend credence to religious detractors who say that even modern incarnations of popular religions aren't up with the times. Anything to put them on equal footing in mainstream Christianity (besides giving lip service to the idea without actually extending privileges) is good in my book.

So, in summary, women should stay in the kitchen, making me sammiches and babies.



*raises hand*

woot yo dude how'd you get such a large sig? i can't get mine bigger than 140

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
yo dude how'd you get such a large sig? i can't get mine bigger than 140

I'm a mod. We aren't limited by silly size restrictions.

*laughs maniacally*

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
there are three spiritual kingdoms according to my religion, sheol, hell, and heaven. we will all rest in sheol until judgement day comes and we shall be put into one or another. Jesus actually meant "the lake of fire" and that was not lost in translation.


could think i like the hebrew version better and give it more credence over the christian one...


also i remember something about you shall be judged by the same measure you judge others cause i never judged some one to hell..

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
could think i like the hebrew version better and give it more credence over the christian one...


also i remember something about you shall be judged by the same measure you judge others cause i never judged some one to hell..

once again, that's something you mistranslated. The same measure, means the same unit of measurement. If you judge someone in comparison to jesus, who was perfect, then you will be judged in comparison to jesus, with whom you can't even compare in righteousness. that's what the bible verse means.

Originally posted by Digi
We aren't limited by silly size restrictions.

thats what she said

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
once again, that's something you mistranslated. The same measure, means the same unit of measurement. If you judge someone in comparison to jesus, who was perfect, then you will be judged in comparison to jesus, with whom you can't even compare in righteousness. that's what the bible verse means.

good thing i am pretty apathetic in my moral compass and am not to passionate about judging others or caring about there choses in life..

firm believer it is not my place to judge them, i am simply dissappointed at times but i get over it just as quickly. complete fonz

thats.....




























































...WHAT SHE SAID

Originally posted by inimalist
thats what she said

I consciously changed that statement to something that didn't make an obvious "that's what she said." But kudos for shoe-horning it in anyway.

313

Originally posted by Digi
But kudos for shoe-horning it in anyway.

lol, good ol' low hanging fruit

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
"I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent." 1 Timothy 2:12

Should women be ordained as Priests or even Bishops in Christian Churches? What about other religions such as Islam.

For extra fun, once you've answered the question...replace the world women with Black People...does that change your perspective.


Yes they should be allowed to do what they wish. Obviously if the religion explicitly forbids or excludes women from holding positions there's no reason to force the religion to change, though they should.