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I know what your thinking, how can somene be sentimental who chokes to death officers for everything from failing to navigate an asteroid field to screwing up a pizza order.

But what I mean by this is, Vader never has ambitions to rule the galaxy alone, he always wants to rule in ROTS with Padme and in ESB and ROTJ with Luke, is Vader too sentimental to be the perfect Sith?

Darth Vader's proposition to Padme Amidala was born out of his then recently-twisted perception of love. His whole reason for submitting to Darth Sidious was to preserve Padme's life; he didn't want to exist without her by his side, so when he mentioned his ambition to kill Palpatine and replace him as Galactic Emperor, it was only logical that he would want Padme to join him there as his Empress.

His proposition to Skywalker some twenty years later wasn't so much out of love as it was simple pragmatism. Due to psychology, Vader lacked the ability to defeat Palpatine in both a political and physical arena alone; the Emperor was simply more powerful than he was in every way. Only his son had the potential to help him defeat Palpatine. To quote George Lucas in the ESB commentary, Vader only sees Luke as an instrument to achieve his ambition to replace his dreaded master.

Gideon is absolutely right. Love turned Anakin into Darth Vader. Vader experimented using another man's son named Galen Marek. That failed when Galen turned on him by becoming a Jedi.

Vader was ambitious, but as Obi-Wan stated "he's now more machine than man." FL would overload his circuitry and Vader would be a dead man. Luke was the only one strong enough to destroy the Emp. He would have been Starkiller (not the Jedi Galen Marek) 10 times stronger.

Originally posted by Darth Truculent

FL would overload his circuitry and Vader would be a dead man. Wrong again truculent, galen sent out force lightning at vader during their duel in the novel and vader barely took any damage from it, this goes to show that vader CAN defend or tank it when he is prepared for it.

Which makes it look weak when he is killed by it...

Look weak? Galens lightning was able to rip an ATAT apart with ease.

The bottom line is that Vader was no match for his Master and that is why he sought Luke's allegiance.

Vader was in life support armor and hardly in a position to deal with a Sith of Sidious/Palpatine's power. Luke however - diferrent story. Galen Marek was an experiment for Vader and Luke had far far more potential than Galen. If Luke received the same training as Galen, then I believe he would be able to overthrow the Emp with a lot of difficulty. Gideon has it right.

If Luke would've been trained by Vader the same amount of years as Marek, then he would not have a lot of difficulty beating Sidious.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
If Luke would've been trained by Vader the same amount of years as Marek, then he would not have a lot of difficulty beating Sidious.

That is speculation. Luke has been practicing the Force for forty years as of Legacy of the Force and hasn't demonstrated greater power than Sidious. According to George Lucas, Luke had the ability to become more powerful than the Emperor; how much more powerful, no one knows.

Originally posted by Gideon
That is speculation. Luke has been practicing the Force for forty years as of Legacy of the Force and hasn't demonstrated greater power than Sidious. According to George Lucas, Luke had the ability to become more powerful than the Emperor; how much more powerful, no one knows.

Didn't Lucas say Luke had the same potential as his father, whose potential power exceeds Palpatine's two times?

vader was a woos and to f****ing weak

Originally posted by Gideon
That is speculation. Luke has been practicing the Force for forty years as of Legacy of the Force and hasn't demonstrated greater power than Sidious. According to George Lucas, Luke had the ability to become more powerful than the Emperor; how much more powerful, no one knows.

Hey Gideon, I agree with you, but isn't Sids considerably older than Luke? and Luke is already on par with Palpy. Perhaps when he gets older, he will become even more powerful.

Originally posted by Darth Storm
vader was a woos and to f****ing weak You mean wuss. Vader's not a train whistle.

Vader's NOT a train whistle ? ****, You just ruined Star Wars for me.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Vader's NOT a train whistle ? ****, You just ruined Star Wars for me.



You just keep getting better and better.

vader was a sentimental. he still pined for padme for years into the original trilogy...sure when he was trying to appeal to luke as a 'father' there was some part of him that did it out of love. look at it, in RotJ when luke said he still had good in him, he paused then came back with his retort...

i would say that he was still part human throughout, it's just when he came into contact with kenobi it was out of revenge for what he'd done to him on mustafar

Yep i agree with that. Vader wasnt the perfect sith,by sith definition.But vader was the perfect hermaphrodite in the force. He knew both sides and never really desire control.

But after padame died,yes there was no more drive,until luke came in the picture,then vader felt even more sentimental towards life. No vader was a softy,a powerful one too. Just got tired of being told what to do,from obi wan to the emperor, he just got fed up with it.

Now some say galen would of been stronger,yet if he trained more he could have been. But no not even galen could stop vader,i still like galen i think he had more potential then vader,but vader was the choosen one,if only he stayed more on the light side. Yet he needed to fall to embrace both aspects of the force so he could be given the title choosen one. No jedi could have been as powerful as vader,at least in this saga.

So if lets say vader was given a "better" position he could have been more powerful then luke even,after all luke is child of vader.