Lucifer vs

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Nihilist
just started reading a lot of lucifer stuff,i was wondering how he would fair in 1 on1 's vs these below in a best out of ten match ups?

Mr myx-worlds funniest
Spectre-most powerful version
Anti moniter-coie
the endless
the basnos
ultimator
eliane
saint of killers
the word

how does lucifer do.

Kris Blaze
The most powerful version of spectre is essentially god, innit?

Nihilist
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
The most powerful version of spectre is essentially god, innit? seen on panel?

Galan007
I really don't see Lucifer going beyond #1.

xJLxKing
Mr myx-worlds funniest--Maybe
Spectre-most powerful version--From what we have seen..Lucifer (imo)
Anti moniter-coie--Lucifer
the endless-......I don't Know
the basnos...Don't Know
ultimator.......Loses
eliane
saint of killers
the word

Nihilist
Originally posted by Galan007
I really don't see Lucifer going beyond #1. sorry my bad, its not a gauntlet,its how many wins out of ten would he get agianst each opponent.

Mindset
Originally posted by Galan007
I really don't see Lucifer going beyond #1. It's not a gauntlet.

Kris Blaze
Originally posted by Galan007
I really don't see Lucifer going beyond #1.

It's not a gauntlet.

Galan007
Geesh, you guys don't have to yell at me. sad

Anyhow, the only characters I don't think Lucifer could take the majority against would be:

Mxy
Spectre
Ultimator
Elaine

The rest he should be able to handle.

Mindset
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
It's not a gauntlet. Yes it is.

SoulDevourer
not sure about full level specter (thats = presence no?) or the word (??) but he should be able defeat the rest

Kris Blaze
Originally posted by Galan007
Geesh, you guys don't have to yell at me. sad

Anyhow, the only characters I don't think Lucifer could take the majority against would be:

Mxy
Spectre
Ultimator
Elaine

The rest he should be able to handle.

How strong do you think Mxy and Ultimator are?

cloud102
Originally posted by Nihilist
just started reading a lot of lucifer stuff,i was wondering how he would fair in 1 on1 's vs these below in a best out of ten match ups?

Mr myx-worlds funniest
Spectre-most powerful version
Anti moniter-coie
the endless
the basnos
ultimator
eliane
saint of killers
the word

how does lucifer do.

How do you like it so far?

Nihilist
Originally posted by cloud102
How do you like it so far? awesome,may be my new fave character.been reading it in short periods though,need to have a good sit down a have a long read.

Enyalus
WF Mr. Myx - Lucifer loses.
Spectre (Peak) - Lucifer loses.
COIE AM - Lucifer wins.
The Endless - Lucifer loses.
Basnos - Lucifer wins.
Ultimator - Lucifer wins.
Elaine - Lucifer loses.
SOK - Lucifer wins.
The Word - ....can't really fight that, but Lucifer would lose.




...Y'know, I was sort of stuck on a lot of these, because at his best Lucifer killed Michael. So...

Kris Blaze
Lose against the endless?

I also doubt a word that did not work on a vampire or someone who can't hear you, would be able to command Lucifer.

guy222
Lucifer is a great read

Enyalus
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Lose against the endless?

I also doubt a word that did not work on a vampire or someone who can't hear you, would be able to command Lucifer.

Yeah. I think he could take on one or two of the Endless at a time. All of them at once? Not a chance, IMO.


As for The Word...I thought that was The Logos (Logoz). If it's something else he's talking about, I have no idea.

Galan007
Originally posted by Enyalus
Yeah. I think he could take on one or two of the Endless at a time. All of them at once? Not a chance, IMO.Who's going to give him any trouble? Death has no hold over him, we know he is able to escape the confines of Destiny, Dream stated Lucifer was far more powerful than he, and he already owned the embodiment of Destruction (Fenris.)

So right off the bat, we know the most powerful of the Endless are all but useless. *shrugs*

Originally posted by Enyalus
As for The Word...I thought that was The Logos (Logoz). If it's something else he's talking about, I have no idea. The Word is an actual character (he appeared during the 'Swamp Thing' series.)

And Lucifer might be able to beat him, if he was able to utilize the same methods as Tefe.

cloud102
Lucifer loses to the Overseers. Big time.

xJLxKing
I though Lucifer is second only to The Presence? And equal only to his brother

guy222
Synnar the Demiurge>>Lucifer shifty

occultdestroyer
Originally posted by Nihilist
seen on panel?
The Presence bestows its power to The Spectre

http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/848/spectre19975815df8.jpg

http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/7062/spectre19975816md3.jpg

http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/2379/spectre19975817xx6.jpg

Enyalus
Originally posted by Galan007
The Word is an actual character (he appeared during the 'Swamp Thing' series.)

And Lucifer might be able to beat him, if he was able to utilize the same methods as Tefe.

I really need to read that series, huh?

Rage.Of.Olympus
I think he should be able the rest to some degree of success and take the majority but against these beings I'm not as sure:

Mxy
Spectre (I'm less sure about the Spectre, but if God has given him his full backing, it get's complicated)
Ultimator
Elaine
The Word

Galan007
Originally posted by Enyalus
I really need to read that series, huh? Moore's run was easily one of the best series' I've read. I would highly recommend it.

Galan007
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I think he should be able the rest to some degree of success and take the majority but against these beings I'm not as sure:


The Word
As far as what's known, the only way to 'beat' the Word is to approximate power equivelent to the exact opposite of God's voice, and cancel him out. Tefe was able to accomplish this, but she's... Special. However, if anyone else could do it, Lucifer could.

CosmicSurfer
Originally posted by occultdestroyer
The Presence bestows its power to The Spectre

http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/848/spectre19975815df8.jpg

http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/7062/spectre19975816md3.jpg

http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/2379/spectre19975817xx6.jpg

Isn't that the Source merged with the Spectre? You're saying the Source, the very thing that powers the new gods and Darkseid, and the Presence are one and the same? I disagree. Lucifer ignored the source when he entered it's wall.

kgkg
Originally posted by CosmicSurfer
Isn't that the Source merged with the Spectre? You're saying the Source, the very thing that powers the new gods and Darkseid, and the Presence are one and the same? I disagree. Lucifer ignored the source when he entered it's wall. yes that is the Source


and Spectre = God is laughing out loud

occultdestroyer
Originally posted by CosmicSurfer
Isn't that the Source merged with the Spectre? You're saying the Source, the very thing that powers the new gods and Darkseid, and the Presence are one and the same? I disagree. Lucifer ignored the source when he entered it's wall.
So you like playing mind games eh shifty

tjcoady
So the conclusion that I've reached is that you'd have to destroy the multiverse and yourself to really defeat the Endless.

The Endless aren't really entities- they're not even really abstracts.

As long as Lucifer is capable of destroying or building something, or dreaming, or dying, or desiring something, the Endless would still exist. They're not representations of those things- they literally are those things. Morpheus (and Daniel) is not just the Lord of Dreams- he actually is dreams.

Not to say that Lucifer doesn't have the ability to do that.

occultdestroyer
Originally posted by tjcoady
So the conclusion that I've reached is that you'd have to destroy the multiverse and yourself to really defeat the Endless.

The Endless aren't really entities- they're not even really abstracts.

As long as Lucifer is capable of destroying or building something, or dreaming, or dying, or desiring something, the Endless would still exist. They're not representations of those things- they literally are those things. Morpheus (and Daniel) is not just the Lord of Dreams- he actually is dreams.

Not to say that Lucifer doesn't have the ability to do that.
thumb up
Good observation.

The Endless will continue to exist until the end of time.

Though Lucifer has shown that even The Endless has no authority over him.

tjcoady
Originally posted by occultdestroyer
thumb up
Good observation.

The Endless will continue to exist until the end of time.

Though Lucifer has shown that even The Endless has no authority over him.

Yeah they do, though!

Destiny proves him wrong, even after Lucifer bets that he can do something he doesn't expect by burning a page in his book.

When he was lingering on the edge of death, Death appeared to him- if Elaine hadn't given up her life for him, Death would have been able to claim him.

The Great Galen
Living will of the presence.....this isn't even a contest.

Philosophía
Spectre and Elaine are the only ones he'd lose to.

cloud102
Overseers are the most powerful ones on the list.

kevdude
The Overseers aren't on the list wink. Lucifer would destroy nearly all of them except The Spectre or The Word who is the most loyal to The Voice then anyone. It was a good showing for Destiny helping with Fenris..

Philosophía
Originally posted by cloud102
Overseers are the most powerful ones on the list.

Even if they were on the list, says who ?

cloud102
Damn, getting these threads mixed up. Anyway, they were really vague, but they exsisted outside of the DC creation. That of the og beyonder, but came out before. ONE Overseer created a being who judged the PC Multiverse.

cloud102
But, yeah, Lucifer takes this.

Philosophía
Originally posted by cloud102
Damn, getting these threads mixed up. Anyway, they were really vague, but they exsisted outside of the DC creation. That of the og beyonder, but came out before. ONE Overseer created a being who judged the PC Multiverse.

They have absolutley nothing to put them above Lucifer/Michael/Spectre's power. They are some sort of enigmatic creatures, who as far as I recall appointed the Adjudicator to judge unworthy civilizations and eradicate them. In terms of feats, Adjudicator has nothing insane, and the best claim for his power is him being capable of destroying Universes with a shrug.

Stop going by some online non-official rankings.

cloud102
I'll do whatever I want, thank you. And that does indeed show the potential of these "enigmatic" creatures. If they could judge the multiverse and not be intervened, without the Presence or Spectre, then I'd say they are definitely in their league.

Especially seeing as Spectre on average can't do similar feats.

Philosophía
You can do whatever you want as long as you don't bring that bullshit here and pass it on as fact. They don't have anything in terms of feats, and not even in terms of statements that puts them on the level I just mentioned.

Priest
Originally posted by Mindset
Yes it is.
Stops @ onez.

Galan007

Philosophía
There's no shame in being a Lucifer fanboy. uhuh

Seriously though, I consider him nigh-unbeatable while at full power.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Galan007
As far as what's known, the only way to 'beat' the Word is to approximate power equivelent to the exact opposite of God's voice, and cancel him out. Tefe was able to accomplish this, but she's... Special. However, if anyone else could do it, Lucifer could.

Your point?

I'm just wondering, what you found incorrect with my statement etc. or are you simply saying this for the simple sake of saying it.

CosmicSurfer
Elaine would beat Lucy. But not Spectre. Unless you think the Source is actually the Presence, which I don't think it is.

How powerful is the Word? I've only seen him in Swamp Thing where he destroyed ancient primordial gods. He's like a red version of spectre. Does he have any other feats?

Galan007
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Your point?

I'm just wondering, what you found incorrect with my statement etc. or are you simply saying this for the simple sake of saying it. One of the characters you weren't sure about Lucifer taking the majority against was the Word. I was simply remarking on the only known weakness the Word has, and Lucifer's ability (or lack thereof) to exploit it.

That was my point.

Rage.Of.Olympus
That's why I said I wasn't sure in the first place. No definite answer can be given to those characters in my opinion.

Either way, thank you...I think....

Mindset

tjcoady
Originally posted by Galan007
That was when Lucifer was still within the confines of Yahweh's creation. However, Lucifer proved that he can escape Destiny's 'plan' when he stepped away from creation entirely.

Even if we don't consider the 'special circumstances' as to why Lucifer was in that predicament in the first place, it should still be noted that the very first thing Lucifer said once he saw Death is, "you have no hold over me" - and she agreed with him.

Fanboy.

uhuh

I interpreted the "You have no hold over me" line as an indication that Lucifer hadn't yet died- he still had cards to play in order to get out of that particular situation. Why would Death appear to him otherwise? But you could be right- I just thought the line was too vague to really imply that.

And well, yeah. But the creation of Lucifier's multiverse was anticipated- but his actions within it are not subject to Yawheh's rules, and thus, outside of Destiny's purview.

Galan007
Originally posted by tjcoady
I interpreted the "You have no hold over me" line as an indication that Lucifer hadn't yet died- he still had cards to play in order to get out of that particular situation. Why would Death appear to him otherwise? But you could be right- I just thought the line was too vague to really imply that. After Lucifer was 'killed' at the end of issue #25, he was sent to a sort of limbo zone. Death then appeared and stated that even though it wasn't his time, she still had to see him for herself. That's the main/only reason for her being there.

Lucifer then states (issue #26) that Death has no hold over him, and she agrees. After this, Lucifer attempts to reinstate himself back into the realm of the living, but is unable to. Lucifer then tells Death that he'll simply wait in limbo until another option comes along. However, had Lucifer's wings not been mucked with, (ie. the 'special circumstances' I was referring to in my post) he apparently could have reinstated himself back into the living world with little difficulty (hence the reason said 'circumstances' should be taken into account.)

At any rate, it never seemed (to me, at least) like Death had the ability to claim Lucifer.

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