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Luke Cage gets adamantuim bones and Wolverines HF, can he beat Abomination?

Stalemate.

Originally posted by Bentley
Stalemate.

Why?

abomination messes cage up.

Stalemate neither one could bring the other down accept for bfr

Originally posted by golem370
Stalemate neither one could bring the other down accept for bfr

Luke could KO abom hes Koed Ironclad and Doc Samson and thats when he was class 25. I reckon with admantuim bones his strength will double.

It would be like somebody whos class 50 weilding an admantuim baseball bat.

Abomination has not went toe to toe with Savage Hulk but Rulk as well he is a 100tons character who is extremely tough and has a healing factor.

Originally posted by golem370
Abomination has not went toe to toe with Savage Hulk but Rulk as well he is a 100tons character who is extremely tough and has a healing factor.

If Luke can KO Ironclad and Doc Samson at class 25 his punches will be powerful enough to KO abom at class 50.

Dont get me wrong, its still easier said than done but he could do it.

That was a bad showing on Ironclad side he and the Hulk battle it out before causing ripples of destruction.

Originally posted by golem370
That was a bad showing on Ironclad side he and the Hulk battle it out before causing ripples of destruction.

Ironcald usually gets owned by Hulk.

Abomination

Abomination wins imo

Abomination stomps.

Cage shouldn't be able to hurt him.

Even if he can, Abom can just beat the crap into Cage until he's KO'd.

A normal human with Wolvie's healing factor stands in hand to hand against Hulk, add Luke Cage's durability and this is stalemate.

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Abomination stomps.

Cage shouldn't be able to hurt him.

Even if he can, Abom can just beat the crap into Cage until he's KO'd.

Cage could hurt Abom.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Cage could hurt Abom.

To annoy him, yes, to ko him, nein.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Cage could hurt Abom.

Not enough to do anything.

Abom is far stronger, far more durable, and is Cage's equal, if not superior in speed.

Abom just bashes Cage in the face ala Hulk vs Logan in WWH, and puts him down.

Or, Abom could BFR him easily.

Only think Cage has going for him here is Logan's healing, but that won't help when Cage's can only physically attack Abom, someone who has gone toe to toe with a pissed off hulk. Cage isn't winning this.

Cage wins with upgrade. Cause basically with the upgrade. You are combining Wolvies, healing factor and adamantium bones, with Cage's impenetrable skin, and super strength. It will be a real close battle real close. But I think Cage might pull it off. I would have probably said tie, if A bomb, just didn't get owned/killed in is last showing

Rulk shot him

Cage prolly wins

Gee, this thread looks familliar.

Abomination stomps.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Gee, this thread looks familliar.

Abomination stomps.


no

Yes.

how?

Because he's way stronger and throws down with characters that make Cage look like a lil girl in a pink tutu.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Because he's way stronger and throws down with characters that make Cage look like a lil girl in a pink tutu.

Luke Cage has been upgraded since his debute. He is a lot stronger. A-Bomb would win if it was just cage. But with Wolverine's healing factor, and adamantium bones. There is no way he loses. Abomination is done, unlike the Hulk he does not get stronger with rage. It will be a long hard fought battle but Abomination loses.

Cage get's tossed aside by Abomination.

Hulk gave Wolverine brain damage. Having HF doesn't save him from everything. Abomination can hit just as hard.

Let's be honest, Cage won't be able to dish out enough damage.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Cage get's tossed aside by Abomination.

Then comes back and kicks his butt.


Seriously, If wolverine hangs with the hulk, and you give Wolverine Luke Cages, strength and impenetrable skin. Who would win wolverine and Abomiination.

Wolverine would win simply because he's the OAA.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Hulk gave Wolverine brain damage. Having HF doesn't save him from everything. Abomination can hit just as hard.

Let's be honest, Cage won't be able to dish out enough damage.

With the upgrade Abomination won't be able to put cage down. S Cage wears him down and eventually sends him packing.

Wolvie got brain damage from WWH who is on a whole different level than abomination. And even than Wolvie still healed.

Abomination just got owned by Rulk. Cage puts him down after a really long fight. Also the adamntium bones definitely make cage stronger.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Wolverine would win simply because he's the OAA.

so if Wolvie wins Cage wins, cause he has all wolvies strength and more

Rulk used a gun and I'm unconvinced Abomination is really dead.

Again, Cage won't be able to dish enough damage.

I still say he is strong enough to wear abomination down, because with Cage's upgrade Abomination just cannot put Luke down.

Originally posted by Silent Guardian
Then comes back and kicks his butt.


Seriously, If wolverine hangs with the hulk, and you give Wolverine Luke Cages, strength and impenetrable skin. Who would win wolverine and Abomiination.

Wow...

Wolverine cannot hang with the Hulk, he is simply overrated that's all.

Still doesn't change the fact, that Abomination would easily overpower him and toss Luke Cage aside.

Originally posted by Silent Guardian
I still say he is strong enough to wear abomination down, because with Cage's upgrade Abomination just cannot put Luke down.

You can say that all you want, doesn't make it true.

Wolverine has been put down many times with those powers. Cage isn't any different.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
You can say that all you want, doesn't make it true.

Wolverine has been put down many times with those powers. Cage isn't any different.

When ? With Cage's upgrade he is already much stronger than his normal self and wolverine. Abomination is overrated.

Originally posted by Silent Guardian
Cage wins with upgrade. Cause basically with the upgrade. You are combining Wolvies, healing factor and adamantium bones, with Cage's impenetrable skin, and super strength. It will be a real close battle real close. But I think Cage might pull it off. I would have probably said tie, if A bomb, just didn't get owned/killed in is last showing logan fanboy.

Cage is no where near as strong as Abomination.

Wolverine can hang with Hulk only thanks to his speed and the bleeding he causes by slashing with his claws. Luke is not only slower than Wolvie, now he is carrying extra weight with his adamantium bones, and he has no claws; I don't see how he's going to get it done according to his supporters.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Rulk used a gun and I'm unconvinced Abomination is really dead.



I see...so what happened before he used the gun?

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33

Again, Cage won't be able to dish enough damage.

Sure he wont. Hes only Koed Ironclad, Doc Samson and Orca. The adamantuim bones will double his strength and the adamntuim bones will make him punch harder.

It will be like somebody who is class 50 using an adamantuim baseball bat...yes hes going to hurt Abom.



Originally posted by Bentley
Wolverine can hang with Hulk only thanks to his speed and the bleeding he causes by slashing with his claws. Luke is not only slower than Wolvie,

Hes not as fast as Wolverine but he can still be fast when push comes to shove. He wont dodge everything that Aboms got but he can dodge some.



Luke vs Doom manages to damage Dooms armour.

http://img105.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=71903_-9_page_13_9-_122_1192lo.jpg
http://img165.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=71904_-7_page_14_6-_122_747lo.jpg

Luke vs Absorbing Man.

http://img15.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=76315_HeroesForHire17p20_122_735lo.jpg

Luke dodging Hulk.

http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/8373/hulk37yw.th.jpg

http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/9153/hulk49dp.th.jpg

http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/1816/hulk65wu.th.jpg

Luke vs Wonder Man..doesnt do badly.

http://img180.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=73262_Cage_819939_No.08_p05_122_555lo.jpg
http://img132.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=73271_Cage_119936_No.08_p09_122_365lo.jpg



Originally posted by Bentley

now he is carrying extra weight with his adamantium bones, and he has no claws;

The guy can lift 25 tons without the bones. Thats like saying if I put a pebble in my pocket it will slow me done. It wont make a difference.


Originally posted by Bentley

I don't see how he's going to get it done according to his supporters.

The weakest version of Cage has:

cracked classic Iron Mans armour
damaged Dr Dooms armour

an upgraded Cage has:

one-shoted IronClad
one-shoted Doc Samson
Koed Orca.

and without his upgrade in this thread he can take damage like this and be fine.

http://img129.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=63768_WWH_FL_2_0007_122_440lo.JPG
http://img138.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=63771_WWH_FL_2_0008_122_413lo.JPG

Abomination would over power Luke Cage, and toss him aside without to much problem.

BFR for the win imo.

with Cage's new healing fire he won't get tired. And Cage is definitely faster than abomination. I don't know where all these Abomination fanboys are coming from. I mean after he was man handled like a little girl by Rulk and than Shot. I would put Abomination with She-Hulk, except Abomination died and She-Hulk did not.

Originally posted by Silent Guardian
with Cage's new healing fire he won't get tired. And Cage is definitely faster than abomination. I don't know where all these Abomination fanboys are coming from. I mean after he was man handled like a little girl by Rulk and than Shot. I would put Abomination with She-Hulk, except Abomination died and She-Hulk did not.

Rulk beat down Hulk. He also had a gun that could kill Hulk like beings.

Rulk is no pushover (stupid Loeb creation he is though)

And it won't matter.

Cage just isn't physically strong enough to do much to someone who's base strength is >> Hulk's.

Abom thunderclaps then stamps on Cage till he ruptures his spleen. Or he grabs his arms and throws him to China.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I see...so what happened before he used the gun?



Sure he wont. Hes only Koed Ironclad, Doc Samson and Orca. The adamantuim bones will double his strength and the adamntuim bones will make him punch harder.

It will be like somebody who is class 50 using an adamantuim baseball bat...yes hes going to hurt Abom.





Hes not as fast as Wolverine but he can still be fast when push comes to shove. He wont dodge everything that Aboms got but he can dodge some.



Luke vs Doom manages to damage Dooms armour.

http://img105.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=71903_-9_page_13_9-_122_1192lo.jpg
http://img165.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=71904_-7_page_14_6-_122_747lo.jpg

Luke vs Absorbing Man.

http://img15.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=76315_HeroesForHire17p20_122_735lo.jpg

Luke dodging Hulk.

http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/8373/hulk37yw.th.jpg

http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/9153/hulk49dp.th.jpg

http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/1816/hulk65wu.th.jpg

Luke vs Wonder Man..doesnt do badly.

http://img180.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=73262_Cage_819939_No.08_p05_122_555lo.jpg
http://img132.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=73271_Cage_119936_No.08_p09_122_365lo.jpg





The guy can lift 25 tons without the bones. Thats like saying if I put a pebble in my pocket it will slow me done. It wont make a difference.




The weakest version of Cage has:

cracked classic Iron Mans armour
damaged Dr Dooms armour

an upgraded Cage has:

one-shoted IronClad
one-shoted Doc Samson
Koed Orca.

and without his upgrade in this thread he can take damage like this and be fine.

http://img129.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=63768_WWH_FL_2_0007_122_440lo.JPG
http://img138.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=63771_WWH_FL_2_0008_122_413lo.JPG


QFT

Look I use to think it is absurd as anyone when Hulk fights Wolverine, but It happens and to Wolverines credit he survives and actually hurts Hulk. (I mean they even made an animated feature about it, even though it doesn't technically apply in this battle.)

Abomination is not as tough as Hulk. He doesn't have his endless rage and strength. Yes, its true Abomination is a definitely physically stronger than upgraded Luke, but with the upgrade Luke's endurance and damage soak is much greater than Abomination.

After Abomination throws a million punches and Luke is still standing Cage will simply knock him out.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I see...so what happened before he used the gun?

Do you know?



Zippity doo dah. Those are all jobbers who have been KO'ed by lesser beings before.



Uhhhh no.

The metal like skin with the bone's heck I bet that's a bad combination for his organs iff he take's a few blows from a 100 tonner even with the healing factor he should be K.O'ed pretty easy.
And does wolverine move faster without the adamantium bones???
Is he more flexible or doesn't it matter much???
Iff it does matter and cage would end up being slower than he normally is he won't be dodging to many blows from abom.

Abomination > Luke Cage w/ upgrades

Say Christmas!

i think cage can win.

with the combination of both his normal strength and adamantium. he should be able to knock out abomination, if logan can knock out rough house with pure brute force of his adamantium backed punches and can daze the think with a kick or stun hulk with a head bunt. i dont see why cage cant KO abomination.

i checked the wolverine respect thread, hell wolverine has beaten abomination with a ko. it looked liked a ko.

Abom. in a curbstomp. Upgrade Cage to class 200 strength w/ the ugrades you already gave him and we might have a fight.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
i think cage can win.

with the combination of both his normal strength and adamantium. he should be able to knock out abomination, if logan can knock out rough house with pure brute force of his adamantium backed punches and can daze the think with a kick or stun hulk with a head bunt. i dont see why cage cant KO abomination.

i checked the wolverine respect thread, hell wolverine has beaten abomination with a ko. it looked liked a ko.

agreed. These upgrades just put him over the top.

those upgrades are gay, adamantium is overhyped. give him kinetic energy absorption and its game on

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Do you know?

You selectively siphoned out what information you wanted and responded to what was irrelevant. Rulk was kicking Aboms arse IGNORED. The fact that he used a gun is irrelevant, the fact that he may not be dead is irrelevant.


Originally posted by Knowsbleed33

Zippity doo dah. Those are all jobbers who have been KO'ed by lesser beings before.

Ok why is Doc Samson a jobber?
Why is Orca a jobber?
Why is Ironclad a jobber?

Give examples and explanations please.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33

Uhhhh no.

Uh yeah. Cap feats of strength range from 1 to 2 tons. Wolverine HF acts similar to the SSS and his feats of strength can be classifed at 4 tons range. Hell Wolverine was able to pull an elevator full of people with one arm, that obvoulsy had something to do with his adamantuim and theres now way Cap could do that.

Also Luke Cage has always been able to punch harder than people of his strength range and he will be able to punch harder know he has adamantuim bones.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
those upgrades are gay, adamantium is overhyped. give him kinetic energy absorption and its game on

Its not over hyped when you already have class 25 strength and the adamntuim makes you stronger and makes you hit harder.

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish

Abom thunderclaps


Which will do absoultely nothing because Wolverine with much less durability and enhanced senses took a thunderclap from Grey Hulk and kept on fighting.

Abom

Thunderclap ftw

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/30/thunderclapyd9.jpg

This wolverine after a thunderclap from Grey Hulk. The first scan wasnt working

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/2668/hulk340pg15viciouscircljw2.jpg

Thunderclap aint gonna do a damn thing.

Those aren't from Abom

thunderclap

Originally posted by I'm Bran
Those aren't from Abom

thunderclap

The first one is from Savage Hulk.
The second one isnt from Abom but we have to bear in mind that Grey Hulk is still class 100 and Wolverines enhanced senses actually made it worse.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
The first one is from Savage Hulk.
The second one isnt from Abom Stopped reading.

Thunderclap still stuns people. Even durable people.

One stun, all is needed by Abom. Because once he has his hands on Cage, Cage won't be able to break free.

Wolverine can only hurt the Hulk b/c of his claws. Cage does not have that advantage here. Abom ftw.

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Thunderclap still stuns people. Even durable people.

One stun, all is needed by Abom. Because once he has his hands on Cage, Cage won't be able to break free.

I just posted scans of Wolverine standing right next to Savage Hulk and acting like nothing had happened.

I also showed scans of Wolverine taking a thunderclap from Grey Hulk and Wolverine attacking straight afterwards.

Wolverine has enhanced senses that make it worse, if Wolverine can take a thunderclap and bee fine a thunderclap isnt going to do anything to Luke.



Originally posted by AlmightyKfish

Wolverine can only hurt the Hulk b/c of his claws. Cage does not have
that advantage here. Abom ftw.

Without his upgrades Cage was trading blows with Orca who is in the class 80 range. Luke can hurt Abomination.

Cage can't hurt him enough to do anything.

Abom is double Hulk's base strength and durability. The only reason Hulk can beat Abom is due to rage amping.

Cage gets owned horribly. He's got effectivly the same powerset as Abom, but just nowhere near as powerful. Abom is one of the best bricks on Marvel Earth, just he always fights Hulk, who is the best brick (Juggernaut notwithstanding), so he constantly loses.

I can't see what Cage can honestly do in this fight, other than get horrifically owned.

I mean, The Wrecker trashed Cage. Abom > Wrecker.

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Cage can't hurt him enough to do anything.



Of course he cant without his upgrades he was trading blows with somebody in the class 80 range. If his strength is doubled that obvoulsy means he couldnt do anything, please do the math.

Hes also one-shoted people in class 65 and 75 ton strength range.

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish

I mean, The Wrecker trashed Cage. Abom > Wrecker.

PPPlease did Luke have his upgrades then? Luke would slaughter Wrecker with these upgrades. Ive also seen scans of Abom get Koed by some no name superheroine I wish I could find it it was in the old cap respect thread.

Double his strength? Adamantium isn't that good. Make him hit harder, yeah, but double? Hells no. And that would only be striking power. If Abom gets a hold on him he still can't break free.

And Abom can still BFR him to China.

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Double his strength? Adamantium isn't that good. Make him hit harder, yeah, but double? Hells no. And that would only be striking power. If Abom gets a hold on him he still can't break free.


Yeah it could because Caps strength level can be seen as 1-2 tons. Wolverine strength feats can be classified as 4 tons. Hell hes even supported the weight of an elevator full of people on one arm thats obvoulsy because of the adamantuim.

Even if its not double its most lilkely going to be enough to hurt Abom if without his upgardes he can hurt people in clss 80 range. All he needs is at least a 20% increase.

Lets just add this:

http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/w/wolverine.htm

Strength Level: While Wolverine may be of an advanced age, he possesses the normal human strength of a man in his prime with his height and build who engages in intensive regular exercise. While possessing the adamantium skeleton, Wolverine's strength was increased to the human maximum, making him capable of lifting (pressing) 800 lbs.

Also the reason why he can trade blows with people in class 80 range and Ko people in 65 and 75 ton range is because his skin is harder than people of his strength level adamantuim is going to make his punches even harder.

Abom grabs each of Luke Cage's arms and uses it to play "why are you hitting yourself" with Cage til LC finally gives up from the embarassment...

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yeah it could because Caps strength level can be seen as 1-2 tons. Wolverine strength feats can be classified as 4 tons. Hell hes even supported the weight of an elevator full of people on one arm thats obvoulsy because of the adamantuim.


With adamantium he can lift more because his bones wouldn't crush under the normal weight human bones crush; Cage in the other hand has titanium skin already, you cannot compare bone with titanium and just say his strength doubles.

Originally posted by Bentley
With adamantium he can lift more because his bones wouldn't crush under the normal weight human bones crush; Cage in the other hand has titanium skin already, you cannot compare bone with titanium and just say his strength doubles.

I dont see why not. The bones are indestructible like you said therefore its going to double Cages strength as well. The fact that he has titanuim skin and muscle doesnt change anything.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I dont see why not. The bones are indestructible like you said therefore its going to double Cages strength as well. The fact that he has titanuim skin and muscle doesnt change anything.

Except that his body won't break with the same weight a human body would, which is exactly why Wolverine is stronger than a human.

Originally posted by Bentley
Except that his body won't break with the same weight a human body would, which is exactly why Wolverine is stronger than a human.

You explanation doesnt make anything clear. Really all you doing making a statement that doesnt disprove anything that I said.

Wolverine strength doubles because of his adamntuim bones, the same principle applies to Cage.

Explaining why Wolverine can lift more does not disprove anything I just said.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
You explanation doesnt make anything clear. Really all you doing making a statement that doesnt disprove anything that I said.

Wolverine strength doubles because of his adamntuim bones, the same principle applies to Cage.

Explaining why Wolverine can lift more does not disprove anything I just said.

Giving the reason for Wolverine being stronger, and pointing out it doesn't make sense for Luke doesn't disprove your idea?

Originally posted by Bentley
Giving the reason for Wolverine being stronger, and pointing out it doesn't make sense for Luke doesn't disprove your idea?

No it doesnt. The same principles that enable Wolverine to have double strength alsp applies to Luke as well. Just because Luke is much stronger is neither here nor there.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
No it doesnt. The same principles that enable Wolverine to have double strength alsp applies to Luke as well. Just because Luke is much stronger is neither here nor there.

Wolverine's non-adamantium bones are not as strong as Luke's skin and muscles, so really, the upgrade Luke would get from adamantium would be minimal, because the difference between titanium and adamantium is less than bone and adamantium.

Originally posted by Bentley
would be minimal, because the difference between titanium and adamantium is less than bone and adamantium.

The difference wouldnt be minimal. There would still be a big difference. Adamantuim can withstand blows from Thors hammet titanuim would get decimated.

Im not even sure wether skyfather being can destroy adamantuim.

Indestructible >>>>>> Titanuim

Also Wolverines bone-claws have been able to slice through solid stone and metal as well, so Wolverines odrinary bones are still very hard.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
The difference wouldnt be minimal. There would still be a big difference. Adamantuim can withstand blows from Thors hammet titanuim would get decimated.

Adamantium is stronger than titanium, but a person can only put so much force into a movement. If Wolverine was directly stronger because of his bones, he would have unlimited strength with his adamantium. The thing is that Wolverine puts strain to his bones by using his muscles, but they can only push so hard, even with adamantium holding them. Who says Luke actually pushes the limits of his physique?

I mean, why are we to suppose that Luke can pull more strength than his body is able to support if his body is not like a human's body? You assume that Luke's body can put more strength than that he already uses, and that his strength is limited by the durability of his body, why do you suppose that?

I mean, Cage is what? A 30 tonner? And Jocasta who is made of actual titanium, is she not a 50 tonner? Why in hell would you suppose 30 tons actually strains Cage's body to the limit?

Bottomline, you cannot possibly prove your "doubling strength" argument is true.


Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Also Wolverines bone-claws have been able to slice through solid stone and metal as well, so Wolverines odrinary bones are still very hard.


His claws are stronger than the rest of his bones, if his bones were actually stronger he would be stronger than a peak human.

Abomination

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish


Abom just bashes Cage in the face ala Hulk vs Logan in WWH, and puts him down.

Or, Abom could BFR him easily.

Originally posted by Bentley
Adamantium is stronger than titanium,

...and the point is that there is a massive difference between adamantuim and titanuim. The fcat titanuim can be destroyed in one shot by class 100s and Thor hammer tells you there is a big difference. Thor could wail all day at adamantuim and it still wouldnt break it.

Originally posted by Bentley

but a person can only put so much force into a movement. If Wolverine was directly stronger because of his bones

he would have unlimited strength with his adamantium.

LOL I never argued that it would give him unlimited strength obvoulsy it doesnt because his muscles restrict his strength.

Originally posted by Bentley

he would have unlimited strength with his adamantium.

No it would double his strength as implied in the bio.

Originally posted by Bentley


The thing is that Wolverine puts strain to his bones by using his muscles, but they can only push so hard, even with adamantium holding them. Who says Luke actually pushes the limits of his physique?

All I know is that its implied that Wolverines strength is doubled by Adamantuim. The fact you are saying "Who says" means that its speculation. Theres nothing wrong with that but ive got an actual source that backs up what I say. At the end of the day you dont know the exact factors behind why Luke can lift 25 tons but you do know that adamantuim can increase strength level speculating that it cant doesnt disprove anything.

Originally posted by Bentley

I mean, why are we to suppose that Luke can pull more strength than his body is able to support if his body is not like a human's body?


His body is only not like a humans body because it has superhuman strength this does not mean that the principle does not apply to him. I mean Luke Cage can still drown does that mean the fact that his body is not like a human mean he can't drown?

Originally posted by Bentley

You assume that Luke's body can put more strength than that he already uses,

Stating that im making an assumption when I have given a reason for my opinion which you havent disproved doesnt make it an assumption. You are just making a statement with nothing to back it up.

Originally posted by Bentley

and that his strength is limited by the durability of his body, why do you suppose that?

I never stated that durability was the only factor but its not a coincedence that most people with sueprhuman strength have superhuman durbaility as well and Luke was less durable prior to his upgrade in the 90s. The question is how much does durability affect the strength level? In the case of Wolverine it implied his strength was doubled.


Originally posted by Bentley

I mean, Cage is what? A 30 tonner? And Jocasta who is made of actual titanium, is she not a 50 tonner?

How exactly does that disprove my point. If I was assuming that durability was the only factor for a strength level then it would. You dont know anything about why Jocasta can lift 50 tons but I would assume that she has a power source and other factors that add to that strength level.

Originally posted by Bentley

Why in hell would you suppose 30 tons actually strains Cage's body to the limit?

Ermm because its stated that his strength limit is 25 tons? We also know that when he was weaker he was less durable as well so that doesnt exactly hurt my case.

Originally posted by Bentley

Bottomline, you cannot possibly prove your "doubling strength" argument is true.

I have more proof that it does than it doesnt. Really all you've done is said that im making assumptions without actually proving it. I have actually got a source that backs up what I say all you have argued really is "no it won't".


The fact of the matter is its implied by his bio that adamantuim doubles his strength. Titanuim is still massively weaker than adamantuim and therefore should still double his strength as well. Stating that im making assumptions and saying maybe this and maybe that doesnt disprove anything. Back it up with some proof.

Originally posted by Bentley


His claws are stronger than the rest of his bones, if his bones were actually stronger he would be stronger than a peak human.

I actually dont think they are. At any rate it doesnt matter.

This thread is hilarious. What can cage do to Abomination to put him down? Nothing.

Cage one shotted Samson, Ironclad, Orca, etc,,. Does anybody else think thats horrible writing? He has no business beating any of those characters yet one shotting them. Hell Samson has gone toe to toe with an enraged Hulk for something like 6 plus hours, and somebodys going to tell me Cage can one shot him? Brilliant.

People comparing Wolverine and Cage due to the thread starter giving Cage Wolverines healing factor and adamantium skeleton? Fail. Wolverine is 150 times a better fighter than Cage plus 300 times faster. Thats how he gets away with fighting Hulk and other beings of that ilk. I dont agree with it, but thats how Marvel wants it.

The Rulk beating Abomination example? Another failed attempt. The Rulk also beat the crap out of current Thor and Hulk. Whats the point of bringing him up at all?

An adamantium skeleton does not double somebodys strength. As mentioned before, it just doesnt shatter under normal weight like bones thus allowing the person to use their strength to its fullest. How many times have videos been made where power lifters have broken bones while lifting weights? They had the strength to do it, its just the bones werent strong enough to withstand the force.

Abomination should win this fight. The only way he would lose is typical Marvel attempting to make Cage their new wetdream as they have been doing for some time now.

Originally posted by tkitna


Cage one shotted Samson, Ironclad, Orca, etc,,. Does anybody else think thats horrible writing? He has no business beating any of those characters yet one shotting them. Hell Samson has gone toe to toe with an enraged Hulk for something like 6 plus hours, and somebodys going to tell me Cage can one shot him? Brilliant.

Lets be honest. One-shotting IronClad and Doc Samson was a lows showings but the fact that Luke Cage has traded blows with Orca suggests he can at least punch it out with them for a duration.

Do you think that Luke Cage trading blows with Orca is bad writing? Do you also think its fair to classify everything that disagress with your point of view as bad writing. I undertsand what you are saying about Doc and Ironclad but to then say that about Orca suggests you just reject everything that disagrees with you're point.

Also Luke at class10 range has been able to crack classic Iron Mans armour is that bad writing as well?

Originally posted by tkitna


People comparing Wolverine and Cage due to the thread starter giving Cage Wolverines healing factor and adamantium skeleton? Fail. Wolverine is 150 times a better fighter than Cage plus 300 times faster. Thats how he gets away with fighting Hulk and other beings of that ilk. I dont agree with it, but thats how Marvel wants it.

That6s true but I just posted some scans showing Luke Cage dodge the majority of Hulks punches.

However if Luke prior to his upgrade could trade blows with somebody in class 80 range and hurt him with his upgrades he can hurt Abom with his punches.

Originally posted by tkitna

The Rulk beating Abomination example? Another failed attempt. The Rulk also beat the crap out of current Thor and Hulk. Whats the point of bringing him up at all?

Agreed.

Originally posted by tkitna

An adamantium skeleton does not double somebodys strength. As mentioned before, it just doesnt shatter under normal weight like bones thus allowing the person to use their strength to its fullest. How many times have videos been made where power lifters have broken bones while lifting weights? They had the strength to do it, its just the bones werent strong enough to withstand the force.

The problem is I just posted a bio that proves this. So basically what you are doing is ignoring everything that you dont agree with.
If you're going to debate like that theres really no point.

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Abomination stomps.

Cage shouldn't be able to hurt him.

Even if he can, Abom can just beat the crap into Cage until he's KO'd.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
All I know is that its implied that Wolverines strength is doubled by Adamantuim.

You can't prove it would improve anyone else's strength by just stating that. Actually, prove that Sabreetooth got increased strength with his adamantium or get out of here.



Originally posted by Phantom Zone
His body is only not like a humans body because it has superhuman strength this does not mean that the principle does not apply to him.


It doesn't mean you can apply it either, I certainly don't see why you just choose to.



Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Stating that im making an assumption when I have given a reason for my opinion which you havent disproved doesnt make it an assumption. You are just making a statement with nothing to back it up.



You are assuming that adamantium gives more physical strength just like that without caring or worrying whether it applies to Luke or not.




Originally posted by Phantom Zone
You dont know anything about why Jocasta can lift 50 tons but I would assume that she has a power source and other factors that add to that strength level.


I used Jocasta as an example of how titanium hard materials can support more than 30 tons of strain, so Luke's strength is probably not so much that his body would be upgraded by having a stronger skeleton.



Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Ermm because its stated that his strength limit is 25 tons? We also know that when he was weaker he was less durable as well so that doesnt exactly hurt my case.

Or we can assume that the same thing that made him more resistant also made him stronger, I think that was pretty much implied in the comics.



Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I have more proof that it does than it doesnt.

In Wolverine. You are ASSUMING it would work in Luke. Are you going to tell me that an adamantium skeleton would double Superman's strength?

Originally posted by Bentley
You can't prove it would improve anyone else's strength by just stating that.

I didnt state anything. Marvel Universe did .


Originally posted by Bentley

Actually, prove that Sabreetooth got increased strength with his adamantium or get out of here.


But Sabretooths bio doesnt compare his strength before and after.

http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/s/sabretooth.htm

Strength level: Sabretooth possesses the normal human strength of a man of his physical age, height, and build who engages in intensive regular exercise

However after his ugrade his stated as having superhuman strength and since Wolverines strength is doubled theres no reason why Sabretooth shouldnt.

Originally posted by Bentley

It doesn't mean you can apply it either, I certainly don't see why you just choose to.

Again please explain why I cant. Stating that I cant doesnt mean I cant.




Originally posted by Bentley

You are assuming that adamantium gives more physical strength just like that without caring or worrying whether it applies to Luke or not.



Im not assuming anything. I explained why it would apply to Luke you gave an explanation as to why it wouldnt and I replied to it.




Originally posted by Bentley

I used Jocasta as an example of how titanium hard materials can support more than 30 tons of strain, so Luke's strength is probably not so much that his body would be upgraded by having a stronger skeleton.


As I stated to you you dont know anything about Jocasta if you have a bio that states what components give her 50 ton strength then you would have a point.

I actually have a bio that specifies what actually gives Wolverine strength level.


Originally posted by Bentley

Or we can assume that the same thing that made him more resistant also made him stronger, I think that was pretty much implied in the comics.

Well he was less durable and weaker prior to his upgrade I dont see why durability doesnt have anything to do with it and it doesnt hurt my argument.



Originally posted by Bentley

In Wolverine. You are ASSUMING it would work in Luke.

No not really.

Originally posted by Bentley

Are you going to tell me that an adamantium skeleton would double Superman's strength?

The problem with this is that you're agrumnet could actually apply to Superman because his body seems to be alot closer to adamantuim. Luke cant take shots from Thor hammer, Superman could.

P.S. Im not stating its clear cut but I think I have more proof that it than it doesnt. Also in comics it really doesnt matter how logical things are there is always soemthing to contradict it.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
However after his ugrade his stated as having superhuman strength and since Wolverines strength is doubled theres no reason why Sabretooth shouldnt.

It seems that Marvel doesn't say anyone else than Wolverine gets the strength upgrade. Good.


Originally posted by Phantom Zone
As I stated to you you dont know anything about Jocasta if you have a bio that states what components give her 50 ton strength then you would have a point.

I don't have the scans, I'll get back to you later.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I actually have a bio that specifies what actually gives Wolverine strength level.

And if you don't have one about an adamantium laced Luke Cage you are assuming.

Are we to ignore physics because they are not in a bio? We explained how and why a stronger skeleton would increase someone's strength, I already explain why it wouldn't apply to Luke. As far as I know, physics are applied in comics unless stated otherwise.


Originally posted by Phantom Zone
The problem with this is that you're agrumnet could actually apply to Superman because his body seems to be alot closer to adamantuim. Luke cant take shots from Thor hammer, Superman could.

Wolvie had about 2 tons of upgrade thanks to adamantium, and you are assuming that Luke is going to get a 30 ton upgrade, just like that. Who is assuming crazier things?

It doesnt matter if it doubles his strength or not, abomination could end this fight quite easily and in mere minutes. This fight is lop sided. This is a 10/10 for abom and easily.

Originally posted by Bentley
It seems that Marvel doesn't say anyone else than Wolverine gets the strength upgrade. Good.

So are we know going to assume that adamantuim only doubles Wolverines strength now and anybody else with a similar strength range doesnt get a strength increase?

So Sabretooth is stated to have superhuman strength after his upgrade with adamantuim doesnt mean anything?


Originally posted by Bentley

And if you don't have one about an adamantium laced Luke Cage you are assuming.

Are we to ignore physics because they are not in a bio? We explained how and why a stronger skeleton would increase someone's strength, I already explain why it wouldn't apply to Luke. As far as I know, physics are applied in comics unless stated otherwise.


It based on the principle that Wolverines strength was doubled. You responded to it by telling me that difference is minimal because titanuim is extremely durable. I adressed that point by explaining that durability of titantuim to adamantuim is massive, titanuim might as well be bone.

You havent explained anything. What you need to do is respond to this point.

I adressed that point by explaining that durability of titantuim to adamantuim is massive, titanuim might as well be bone.

That would actually help instead of just repeating that I keep making assumptions.



Originally posted by Bentley

Wolvie had about 2 tons of upgrade thanks to adamantium, and you are assuming that Luke is going to get a 30 ton upgrade, just like that. Who is assuming crazier things?

Again explain why its an assumption. Address my explanation of why I think he will get the increase. Look im not trying to be a douche bag but you need to actually respond to arguments raised.

Abomination is not strong enough to put him down with his incredible healing factor, durability, impenetrable skin and adamantium bones. We are not talking about Bannerless Hulk here we are talking about Abomination

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Lets be honest. One-shotting IronClad and Doc Samson was a lows showings but the fact that Luke Cage has traded blows with Orca suggests he can at least punch it out with them for a duration.

Do you think that Luke Cage trading blows with Orca is bad writing? Do you also think its fair to classify everything that disagress with your point of view as bad writing. I undertsand what you are saying about Doc and Ironclad but to then say that about Orca suggests you just reject everything that disagrees with you're point.



If you can agree there low showings why bring them up I mean none of the guys you listed here can beat abomination, and are you referring to the fight Cage had with Orca in Heroes for Hire Vol.2? where Orka got shot in the back while fighting Luke.

http://f.imagehost.org/t/0448/HeroesForHire04p02.jpg http://f.imagehost.org/t/0183/HeroesForHire04p03.jpg http://f.imagehost.org/t/0583/HeroesForHire04p04.jpg http://f.imagehost.org/t/0480/HeroesForHire04p05.jpg

Originally posted by SuperiorTech
If you can agree there low showings why bring them up I mean none of the guys you listed here can beat abomination,

Because even if he cant one-shot them he can at least trade blows with them for awhile. With his upgrades he can hurt and trade blows with class 100s


Originally posted by SuperiorTech

and are you referring to the fight Cage had with Orca in Heroes for Hire Vol.2? where Orka got shot in the back while fighting Luke.

http://f.imagehost.org/t/0448/HeroesForHire04p02.jpg http://f.imagehost.org/t/0183/HeroesForHire04p03.jpg http://f.imagehost.org/t/0583/HeroesForHire04p04.jpg http://f.imagehost.org/t/0480/HeroesForHire04p05.jpg

Thats true but ive never seen BK with immense firepower. I intepreted that as BK had brefly weakened Orca and therefore the fight ended quickly. However if the fight had continued the fight would have gone on for longer possibly with Luke losing or winning.

As it states on panel he was trading blows with Orca prior to BK turning up.

Cage wins

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
You selectively siphoned out what information you wanted and responded to what was irrelevant. Rulk was kicking Aboms arse IGNORED. The fact that he used a gun is irrelevant, the fact that he may not be dead is irrelevant.

Good grief man. That was the very first issue, even before he punched out Uatu. That is an exceptionally bad example.




Who has he beaten of relevance?



Because he got himself killed?



Because he's never won a fight?





Come on man, so it amps his strength by 4 tons? 29 tonner versus a 100+ tonner with a remarkable healing factor of his own not to mention he's a trained killer?

Even with these upgrades Cage would have to be atleast an 85 tonner to win this.

Cage loses this one, sorry.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone




Thats true but ive never seen BK with immense firepower. I intepreted that as BK had brefly weakened Orca and therefore the fight ended quickly. However if the fight had continued the fight would have gone on for longer possibly with Luke losing or winning.

As it states on panel he was trading blows with Orca prior to BK turning up.


Yes he was trading blows with Orca until he got that Left to the face which rocked him and the black Knight Cheap-shotted Orca allowing Cage to win the fight.The black Knight was given the Sword of Light and Shield of Night in issue 2 by the lady of the lake.I saw nothing in that fight that made me think cage had a chance to win on his own.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Do you think that Luke Cage trading blows with Orca is bad writing? Do you also think its fair to classify everything that disagress with your point of view as bad writing. I undertsand what you are saying about Doc and Ironclad but to then say that about Orca suggests you just reject everything that disagrees with you're point.

Alright, i'll be honest with you. I dont know much about Orka so i'm probably wrong to include him. I just know he's something like class 80 so it shouldnt be a fight. I mean, the guy smacked Namor around before. Cage shouldnt be an issue. Regardless, I really dont care about Orka and I see you agree with Samson and Ironclad so thats good enough with me.



Absolutely it was bad writing. The same scans you showed of Cage dodging the Hulk is the same book where he couldnt even crack a boulder that was lodged into the mountain. You tell me if it was bad writing. Heck, Cage cracking Iron Mans armor today with his upgrades would be bad writing in my opinion.



I'm calling low showings for the people he's hurt just to make the character look better than what he truly is. I mean, prior to his upgrade, the Thing has toyed with him. I mean humbling the guy so its hard for me to believe that he could or should be trading punches with class 80 characters. He was a minor annoyance to the Hulk during the issue you used as an example and nothing more. To hurt a class 80 character is just asinine.



Here is what you posted -

Strength Level: While Wolverine may be of an advanced age, he possesses the normal human strength of a man in his prime with his height and build who engages in intensive regular exercise. While possessing the adamantium skeleton, Wolverine's strength was increased to the human maximum, making him capable of lifting (pressing) 800 lbs.

So what you take from this is that Adamantium is magical to the dregree that it boosts one stength? You dont think it has anything to do with the added capability of the bones to inflict a greater sum of leverage? I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this.

Originally posted by SuperiorTech
Yes he was trading blows with Orca until he got that Left to the face which rocked him

You've never seen a fight were a person gets rocked by a perons pucnh but carrys on fighting? Hell Punisher was laid flat on his back by Kraven but carried on fighting to a stalemate and this example isn't even that bad.

Originally posted by SuperiorTech

and the black Knight Cheap-shotted Orca allowing Cage to win the fight.The black Knight was given the Sword of Light and Shield of Night in issue 2 by the lady of the lake.

Ok BK sword was more powerful than I thought.

Originally posted by SuperiorTech

I saw nothing in that fight that made me think cage had a chance to win on his own.

Im not saying he would have defntely won but if you can trade blows with somebody you stand a fair chance of beating them.





Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Good grief man. That was the very first issue, even before he punched out Uatu. That is an exceptionally bad example.

LOL thats not the point. Rulk is a bad example but the point is that wasnt your argument in the first place. All you said was that Rulk used a gun but ignored the fact that he was kicking his arse ie the point you used to counter his argument was irrelevant.



Originally posted by Knowsbleed33

Who has he beaten of relevance?

He doesnt neccsarily have to beat anybody hes got good showings against the best. Hell hes only gone toe-to-toe with the Hulk. I guess because hes never beaten the Hulk means he sux.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33

Because he got himself killed?

EPIC FAIL. Captain Marvel got himself killed I guess hes a jobber as well.


Originally posted by Knowsbleed33

Because he's never won a fight?

Hes a supervillain most villains dont win a fight because they are written to lose, however hes not up there with guys like Abomination.


Originally posted by Knowsbleed33

Come on man, so it amps his strength by 4 tons?

You're not getting the point. Without the sketelton who would be considerably weaker. His bio implies that Wolverines strength is doubled.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33

29 tonner versus a 100+ tonner with a remarkable healing factor of his own not to mention he's a trained killer?

What remarkable HF?
Hes NEVER shown any h2h skills in a fight.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33

Even with these upgrades Cage would have to be atleast an 85 tonner to win this.



Of course he does thats why Cage at class 25 was able to trade blows with somebody class 80.....therefore logically he needs at least 60 more tons....uhhhhhh.

Originally posted by tkitna
Alright, i'll be honest with you. I dont know much about Orka so i'm probably wrong to include him. I just know he's something like class 80 so it shouldnt be a fight. I mean, the guy smacked Namor around before. Cage shouldnt be an issue. Regardless, I really dont care about Orka and I see you agree with Samson and Ironclad so thats good enough with me.

Uhhh again so that was bad writing? So in other words your point is that anything that you dont agree with is incorrect? That is precsialy what you are doing.


Originally posted by tkitna

Absolutely it was bad writing.

So in other words your point is that anything that you dont agree with is incorrect? That is precsialy what you are doing.



Originally posted by tkitna

The same scans you showed of Cage dodging the Hulk is the same book where he couldnt even crack a boulder that was lodged into the mountain. You tell me if it was bad writing.

1. A pissed off Spiderman has severaly damaged an advanced Iron Mans armour from the future. Considering that Luke Cages punches are harder than Spiderman because of his skin its possible for him to do it.

2. Hes damaged Dr Dooms armour as well. Let me guess thats bad writing as well? C'mon man be reasonable I keep picking all these feats you keep stating that its bad writing that sound reasonable to you?

3. Captain America has lots of showings that indicate that he can hurt class 100s. According to your logic because hes hurt his hand trying to punch Thor and had trouble trying to Ko Super Patriot (class 10) that means that its bad writing. Its not bad writing people feats vary, we dont just choose all the bad ones we look at both good and bad and come to an average. The avarage shows that its not bad writing.

Originally posted by tkitna

Heck, Cage cracking Iron Mans armor today with his upgrades would be bad writing in my opinion.

The Iron Man today is much more advanced so there no point in bringing that up.

Originally posted by tkitna

I'm calling low showings for the people he's hurt just to make the character look better than what he truly is.

No you're not all you are doing is stating that any good feats done by Cage is bad writing. Lets summarise:

Luke fighting Doc Samson. Bad writing.
Luke figting Ironclad . Bad writing.
Luke fighting Orca bad writing.
Luke cracking Iron Mans armour. Bad writing.

Lets add some more to that.

Luke being so durable Carnage wasnt able to hurt him. Is that bad writing?
Hiriom punching Luke so hard that was almost level with a skyscraper and Luke getting straight back up Was that bad writing as well?
Luke Cage damaging Dr Dooms armour? Bad writing.

....c'mon man.

Originally posted by tkitna

I mean, prior to his upgrade, the Thing has toyed with him. I mean humbling the guy so its hard for me to believe that he could or should be trading punches with class 80 characters. .

That was prior to his upgrade! You even indicated in your post why it was a bad example.....uhhhh!!!

Originally posted by tkitna

He was a minor annoyance to the Hulk during the issue you used as an example and nothing more..

That was to indicate how agile he was! That was before his upgrade anyway and nobody is even debating that Cage could currently beat Hulk.


Originally posted by tkitna

To hurt a class 80 character is just asinine.

Because you say it is and nothing more. All you have done is stated that every good thing that Cage has done is bad writing, thats terrible debating.

Originally posted by tkitna

Here is what you posted -

Strength Level: While Wolverine may be of an advanced age, he possesses the normal human strength of a man in his prime with his height and build who engages in intensive regular exercise. While possessing the adamantium skeleton, Wolverine's strength was increased to the human maximum, making him capable of lifting (pressing) 800 lbs.

So what you take from this is that Adamantium is magical to the dregree that it boosts one stength? You dont think it has anything to do with the added capability of the bones to inflict a greater sum of leverage? I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this.

What are you trying to say? Despite the fact that his bio states in black and white that the adamantuim increases his strength it doesnt?


The fact of the matter is the bio strongly implies that Wolverine strength is doubled, you can feel free to ignore it if you wont.

Stating that adamantuim makes his punches more effective is nether here nor there. It never said it didnt it also doesnt hurt my argument that not only will get an increase in strength he will have adamantuim knuckledusters.

Originally posted by golem370
Abomination has not went toe to toe with Savage Hulk but Rulk as well he is a 100tons character who is extremely tough and has a healing factor. Healing factor? Didnt he die when the Red Hulk shot him in the face?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
You've never seen a fight were a person gets rocked by a perons pucnh but carrys on fighting? Hell Punisher was laid flat on his back by Kraven but carried on fighting to a stalemate and this example isn't even that bad.



Ok BK sword was more powerful than I thought.



Im not saying he would have defntely won but if you can trade blows with somebody you stand a fair chance of beating them.



Your kidding right I responded to you saying that Luke cage knocked out ocka, what you conveniently left was the part where he was shot in the back by the black knight.So either you red the issue and decided to ignore that part or you didn't read it and didn't know.Dont try to twist it into something else.


Black Knight thought he was in enough trouble with orcka that he needed the help and it was only after orcka was shot that he was able to knock him out.

http://f.imagehost.org/t/0189/PWJ_15_DCP_0007.jpg

Yeah you talking about the same arc where punisher was able to choke out Tiger Shark IN WATER you really wanna bring that up.



Have you heard of the Thing the ability to have a good showing against someone stronger than you and the ability to beat them are two different things.Dont look at a fight completely ignore parts of it to make the person your debating for look good.

http://f.imagehost.org/t/0408/Hulk401_03b.jpg http://f.imagehost.org/t/0831/Hulk401_04a.jpg http://f.imagehost.org/t/0130/Hulk401_06a.jpg http://f.imagehost.org/t/0946/Hulk401_06b.jpg

Ironclad my be a villain and villains in the end will always lose but when you can take a beating from a pissed off professor hulk and you cant take one punch from luke cage that's called bad writing.


http://f.imagehost.org/t/0770/HeroesForHire04p15.jpg http://f.imagehost.org/t/0357/HeroesForHire04p17.jpg

Originally posted by SuperiorTech
Your kidding right I responded to you saying that Luke cage knocked out ocka, what you conveniently left was the part where he was shot in the back by the black knight.So either you red the issue and decided to ignore that part or you didn't read it and didn't know.

I already explained that. I said that it IMO all it seemed to do was breifly weaken Orca but IMO Luke could have still won the fight. However since you told me where he got it from the sword blast was obvoulsy more than a powerful than I thought and was a significant reason as to why Luke won that fight.

Originally posted by SuperiorTech

Dont try to twist it into something else.

You stated to me that Orca rocked Luke with a punch and I then responded by saying that just because he was rocked by one puch doesnt mean that he couldnt win. In your opinion thats twisting things around and not merely responding to your point?

Originally posted by SuperiorTech

Black Knight thought he was in enough trouble with orcka that he needed the help and it was only after orcka was shot that he was able to knock him out.

Bringing up BK doesnt not help your case and in fact my previous opinion were I stated that BKs blast didnt do that much to Orca is justfied. BK saidslight assist. So clearly BKs blast didnt do that much much to Orca but obvously it helped but the main contribution to was Lukes punches.

Just because BK helped Luke doesnt prove that Luke couldnt have won the fight. Luke wasnt having an easy time fighting Orca, BK and Luke are allies why wouldnt BK help him? Is he supposed to just stand there and let them duke it out? Im not arguing that Luke couldnt have lost the fight but BK helping Luke is not conclusive proof.

I can think of one instance were a depowered Superman was fighting some thugs and Batman came along to save him. Does the fact that Batman helped Superman mean he couldnt have taken them out on his own? Of course not but since Batman and Superman are allies and Superman was having some trouble Batman isn't just going to stand there and let Superman duke it out. Hell if I think hard enough i'll probably find more examples.


Originally posted by SuperiorTech

http://f.imagehost.org/t/0189/PWJ_15_DCP_0007.jpg

Yeah you talking about the same arc where punisher was able to choke out Tiger Shark IN WATER you really wanna bring that up.

Yeah I'll bring that up. All that proves is that part of the comic was bad writing in your opinion but since the exact samething that happened with Kraven happened when he fought Paladin that proves that just because somebody is rocked by a one punch doesnt prove conclusively that a person can't win a fight.

Originally posted by SuperiorTech

Have you heard of the Thing the ability to have a good showing against someone stronger than you and the ability to beat them are two different things.

Its not that simple if a fight is inconclusive and two opponents are shown to do well against each other you can deduce that either would win.

Originally posted by SuperiorTech

Dont look at a fight completely ignore parts of it to make the person your debating for look good.

Please dont tell me what do. I simply stated to you that just because a person is rocked by one punch doesnt mean that the person rocked by the punch would have lost. Ive also backed that up with proof, for some reason you think thats bad. It also turns out I was justfied in thinking that Bks blast didnt do that much.

Originally posted by SuperiorTech
http://f.imagehost.org/t/0408/Hulk401_03b.jpg http://f.imagehost.org/t/0831/Hulk401_04a.jpg http://f.imagehost.org/t/0130/Hulk401_06a.jpg http://f.imagehost.org/t/0946/Hulk401_06b.jpg

Ironclad my be a villain and villains in the end will always lose but when you can take a beating from a pissed off professor hulk and you cant take one punch from luke cage that's called bad writing.


http://f.imagehost.org/t/0770/HeroesForHire04p15.jpg http://f.imagehost.org/t/0357/HeroesForHire04p17.jpg

Not really peoples feats vary. Cap has taken punches from Mr Hyde, Iron Man, Namor and others does that mean that its bad writing to get hurt by punches from Crossbones? No it doesnt what that means is that his showings vary. What we do is make an average instead of just decided what feats are bad writing.

The fact of the matter is that Luke Cage has proven that after his upgrade he can KO people that can take class 100 punches, the fact that you disagree is neither here nor there.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Not really peoples feats vary. Cap has taken punches from Mr Hyde, Iron Man, Namor and others does that mean that its bad writing to get hurt by punches from Crossbones? No it doesnt what that means is that his showings vary. What we do is make an average instead of just decided what feats are bad writing.

The fact of the matter is that Luke Cage has proven that after his upgrade he can KO people that can take class 100 punches, the fact that you disagree is neither here nor there.

So Cage can K.O. someone that can take class 100 ton punches???
So that means he hit's harder than someone with 100 ton strenght??

Originally posted by Brutacus
So Cage can K.O. someone that can take class 100 ton punches???
So that means he hit's harder than someone with 100 ton strenght??

She-hulk has one shoted IronClad. She doesnt have class 100 strength. Again peoples feats vary just because Ironclad can take class 100 shots one day doesnt mean he can on another.

No characters are always portrayed the same. According to your logic Crossbones whouldnt be able to hurt Captain America.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
She-hulk has one shoted IronClad. She doesnt have class 100 strength. Again peoples feats vary just because Ironclad can take class 100 shots one day doesnt mean he can on another.

No characters are always portrayed the same. According to your logic Crossbones whouldnt be able to hurt Captain America.

You stated that cage hits harder than a 100 tonner.
I never said anything about crossbones or captain America.

Just asked you a question since you STATED that cage hits harder than someone with 100 ton by saying cage can K.O. someone who can take 100 ton punches.

And crossbones hurting captain america is a very BIG diffrence than cage a 30 tonner can hurt a guy that took a beating from a angry or enraged prof hulk who's base strenght is 100 ton ( and even iff he's the most level headed of the hulks, his strenght still goes up iff he get's angry).

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
She-hulk has one shoted IronClad. She doesnt have class 100 strength. Again peoples feats vary just because Ironclad can take class 100 shots one day doesnt mean he can on another.

No characters are always portrayed the same. According to your logic Crossbones whouldnt be able to hurt Captain America.


She hulk is a 100tonner now and back in the day she was a 70 tonner and could go higher than that in her savage persona.She is at least in the ballpark luke cage is not.She is the weakest person to do that to ironclad if we go by his showing's nobody anywhere near Cage's strength has ko Ironclad.

Also why are you using to showings you agreed are low showing to back up your claim and one where he had assistance in the case of orka.Nobody here is posting any fights of abomination to should just what this guy is capable off ill do that later.

Originally posted by Brutacus
So Cage can K.O. someone that can take class 100 ton punches???
So that means he hit's harder than someone with 100 ton strenght??

Yeah-he can 1 shot Juggernaut

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Uhhh again so that was bad writing? So in other words your point is that anything that you dont agree with is incorrect? That is precsialy what you are doing.

So what do you consider it? Do you really think that Cage should be able to fight, let alone one shot characters that are so much further up the ladder than he is? I consider it wanking from the company.



Spiderman damaging Iron Mans armour is hysterical. I must have given Stark way to much credit. I had no idea that his armour was so weak. I'm going to have to throw away all the comics I own with Iron Man withstanding much, much more than what Spiderman could ever hope to dish out.

Dooms armour is not Starks amour.

Cap hurting class 100's is BS period. Peoples feats vary? So you agree with inconsistencies in characters and deem it normal? How do you even guage a debate? So by your rationale (just an example) if a character like Punisher who has a history of being a street level charcter, knocked out the Thing during a fist fight, that would be totoally alright with you? Thats basically what your saying. Out of character instances mean nothing to you and you accept them instead of calling the writer on it.



But you brought up a pissed off Spiderman damaging a future Iron Mans armour? Also, Cage is supposed to be more today than what he was then so it should be relevant.



Luke being able to beat Samson is bad writing. The character has fought the Hulk for 6+ hours. He is above Cage in every way except for a slight decrease in durability. Ironclad is the same way. Orka? Again, I dont have every issue this charater has been in, but he has beaten Namor twice. Cage could not do that. You do the math.



These are acceptable to me. Carnage shouldnt be able to hurt him in my opinion. I know nothing about Hiriom so I cant say anything about that. Dooms armour isnt that great of a feat in my opinion.



Because you stated that prior to his upgrade, Cage was able to trade blows with class 80 characters. My example was to show that Cage doing so was pure BS. Grimm was class 80-85 then and he wrapped a freaking girder around him. That should be how easy any 80 class character should have it against Cage.



I dont care about his agility. I'm more concerned that he couldnt even break a rock, yet he was damaging Iron mans armour and throwing with class 80 characters? Hmmm. Also, not to throw the Hulk into the mix, but a guy that was throwing with class 80 characters should have had a little more effect on the Hulk than being a mere annoyance.



No more so than accepting inconsistencies when it goes against a characters average that they have accumulated during their history.



I would like to know your opinion on this matter. Do you think that any character that recieves adamantium automatically gets a 50% strength increase? If so, could you possibly explain that to me the best you can? Is it magical? Does it boost muscle capacity? Does it produce some kind of chemical that allows for this strength increase? I need to hear this explanation from you because its clear your not getting the obvious reasons.

Is there anything in the comics that would suggest that Wolverine's strength doubled when he got the adamantium? Nope..

Luke Cage's durability is higher than his strength, his strength would not grow much or at all if he got adamantium bones. Hanging with someone who is stronger than you, doesn't necessarily mean you're as strong as they. You only need to be faster, more skilled, have a good durability etc.

Spider-man probably hits harder than Cage, thanks to his super speed. (hitting force is dependant of the mass of the thing you hit with and the speed it travels.)

Originally posted by Rhinoceros
Is there anything in the comics that would suggest that Wolverine's strength doubled when he got the adamantium? Nope..

I dont think that matters. His bio implies that it doubled by adamantuim unless somebody explicity says it doesnt I dont see why we cant give it the benefit of the doubt. Wolverine has been able to pull an elevator full of people with one arm so that at the very least indicates that his bones greatly augument his strength.

Also Sabretooth is stated that he has superhuman strength after getting adamantuim.

Originally posted by Rhinoceros

Luke Cage's durability is higher than his strength, his strength would not grow much or at all if he got adamantium bones.

At the end of the day I have more proof to say that it does. Of I course could be wrong but I do actually have sources that imply this, to be fair you just have your opinion.

Originally posted by Rhinoceros

Hanging with someone who is stronger than you, doesn't necessarily mean you're as strong as they. You only need to be faster, more skilled, have a good durability etc.

Yeah I know.

Originally posted by Rhinoceros

Spider-man probably hits harder than Cage, thanks to his super speed. (hitting force is dependant of the mass of the thing you hit with and the speed it travels.)

In general Luke Cages punches look more impressive regardless.

Originally posted by Brutacus
You stated that cage hits harder than a 100 tonner.

No I didnt you probably misinterpreted what I said.

Originally posted by Brutacus

I never said anything about crossbones or captain America.

I think you missed the point.

Originally posted by Brutacus

Just asked you a question since you STATED that cage hits harder than someone with 100 ton by saying cage can K.O. someone who can take 100 ton punches.

Like I said you misntepreted what I said. I didnt say that Luke punches were harder than class 100s I said that regardless of wether Ironclad has taking shots from the Hulk that doesnt mean that he can't get one shoted by Luke. People feats vary and are not always consistent Ironclad also got one-shoted by She-HUlk as well. Thats just the way its goes people have high showings and low showings we dont reject either we look at them as a whole.

Originally posted by Brutacus

And crossbones hurting captain america is a very BIG diffrence than cage a 30 tonner can hurt a guy that took a beating from a angry or enraged prof hulk who's base strenght is 100 ton ( and even iff he's the most level headed of the hulks, his strenght still goes up iff he get's angry).

No not really you missed the point. Cap has taken shots from people like Namor, Iron Man etc that doesnt mean he cant get hurt by Crossbones. Also Ironclad has taken shots from Hulk but doesnt mean he cant get Koed by weaker people. See the similarity?

The point is that eventhough Crossbones is not as strong as Luke and She-Hulk he still has the ability to hurt opponents that can take punches from people far more stronger than him.




Originally posted by SuperiorTech
She hulk is a 100tonner now and back in the day she was a 70 tonner and could go higher than that in her savage persona.She is at least in the ballpark luke cage is not.She is the weakest person to do that to ironclad if we go by his showing's nobody anywhere near Cage's strength has ko Ironclad.

I think when she one-shoted IronClad she wasnt class 100, she was classified as class 75. To be quite honest with you Professor Hulk didnt even look like he was trying anyway.

Luke Cage doesnt hit with just 25 tons of force his skin is harder than people in the class 25 range so he hits harder than class 25.

Originally posted by SuperiorTech

Also why are you using to showings you agreed are low showing to back up your claim and one where he had assistance in the case of orka.Nobody here is posting any fights of abomination to should just what this guy is capable off ill do that later.

I guess its my fault for not explaining properly. If you take what Luke cage did to Ironclad and Doc Samson on their own they can be seen as low showings but when you evaluate all of his feats it can be argued that Luke can at least trade blows with them but KOing them in one-shot is bad writing. If somebody does something enough times it not bad writing it shows what he is capable of.

When we add Orka to the list then we have to start questioning wether all his feats are bad writing because the number of feats of him fighting people around class 80 are starting to increase. Lets add some more to the list:

Hes been shown to be a physical match for Rhino (Whos fought The Hulk)
He was attacked by Carnage and Carnage was not even able to hurt him with his claws. Carnage has been classifed as class 50 and many a time edged damages has been shown to more destructive than blunt force.
Also he took a punch from Hiriom and got right back into the fight like nothing happened. From what I can remember Hiriom was able to cancel out Iron Fists power punch, therefore implying that Hirioms 'chi' punch is greater than Iron Fists. Iron Fist has sent Collosus flying with a punch.

Originally posted by tkitna
.

Cap hurting class 100's is BS period. Peoples feats vary? So you agree with inconsistencies in characters and deem it normal? How do you even guage a debate? So by your rationale (just an example) if a character like Punisher who has a history of being a street level charcter, knocked out the Thing during a fist fight, that would be totoally alright with you? Thats basically what your saying. Out of character instances mean nothing to you and you accept them instead of calling the writer on it.

No thats not what im saying at all. Punisher Koing the Thing Is BS because hes never shown to have the ability EVAH! the difference is that Captain America has shown to have that ability 100s of times but depsite that you want to call it BS, thats just complete and utter bias.

At this point ive decided not to respond to the rest of your post. If you want to keep dictating to me what feats are bad just because you dont like them then there is no point in continuing the debate. All im going to do now is try and explain why I think your debating style is wrong and explain my raesoning and if you don't accept it leave it as that.

What im doing is looking at characters feats as a whole, and trying to come to average that indicates what they are capable of. Its like if we have two atheletes and we try to deduce who would win a race. What we would do is look how fast they run 100 meters, we would evaluate all their times and come to an average, that would include all times lows and high.

Im well aware that Luke has looked bad against Namor and Wrecker but Luke also has better showings as well. The point is that if a character does something enough times that indicates its within his abiltiy and regardless of wether you like it or not that makes it true.

Its like if I said to you that an athlete can run 100 meters in 8.3 seconds and you call it BS because hes run it in 11, I then state to you that hes done it 6 more times, for you to reject that makes it bias because you are simply rejecting reality and at the end of the day the writers make that reality.

Hell sometimes it doesnt even have to make sense Steel is a scientific genuis but he cant figure out that Clark Kent is Superman. Does that make sense? It doesnt matter because its a reality in the comic.

You don't think the comics matter...? Keyword here is "bio". Bios aren't primary canon or canon at all. Wolverine being able to pull an elevator suggest that he has enhanced strength, not that his bones are the cause of it.



He had superstrength way before he ever got adamantium. I think the weapon x dudes also augmented his speed and healing ability. If they had just given him an adamantium skeleton, he would have healed slower and been slower. They obviously augmented him some other way too. (When Sabes first got the adamantium, Logan didn't notice anything being different until he hit a bone)




No you don't. Only thing you have is one lousy bio and a pretty damn bad logic to boot.



Spider-man holds back a lot and he's not a brawler.

So it's more likley that abom get's one shotted or beaten by this upgraded version of luke who is still a lot weaker than hulk who abom fought for years.


Than for abom to beat luke cage?

The strenght diffrence between the two is still a lot.
Also look at the size diffrence luke is not a small guy, but put him next to abom he is a little guy that would give abom also the reach advantage luke has to get in close to punch abom.

Originally posted by Brutacus
So it's more likley that abom get's one shotted or beaten by this upgraded version of luke who is still a lot weaker than hulk who abom fought for years.


Than for abom to beat luke cage?

The strenght diffrence between the two is still a lot.
Also look at the size diffrence luke is not a small guy, but put him next to abom he is a little guy that would give abom also the reach advantage luke has to get in close to punch abom.

Very Very unlikely as abomation consistently withstands more damage that this upgraded luke cage is capable of putting out "from the hulk" I would think the better question is how much defensive protection does this upgrade give luke cage against someone with abomination lvl of strength.That IMO is mostly what this upgrade is mostly defensive in nature though I do think that the adamantium would increase his stiking power.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
At this point ive decided not to respond to the rest of your post.


Yeah, i'm done with this too. I realize that your just not going to get it.

Luke Cage wipes the floor with him

Originally posted by Silent Guardian
Luke Cage wipes the floor with him

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Luke could KO abom hes Koed Ironclad and Doc Samson and thats when he was class 25. I reckon with admantuim bones his strength will double.

It would be like somebody whos class 50 weilding an admantuim baseball bat.

Increase strength, adamantium bones do not.

Originally posted by tkitna
Yeah, i'm done with this too. I realize that your just not going to get it.

I really dont know what to say to you. Ive gone the extra mile to pull feats that prove that he can do what he does. All I hear from you is "Thats bad writing!"

Hell Brutacus and Supeior Tech seem to get my point about the feats but you just dont get it, why is that? Somehow you think you can pull whatever feats you like and just decide that they take priority, regardless of the characters history. I guess everybody should just agree with you....jeezus Christ!

There is nothing to get except whatever you say goes and you pick what feats you like and they automatically take priority.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Increase strength, adamantium bones do not.

His bio says it does.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Increase strength, adamantium bones do not.

um yes they would

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
His bio says it does.

Originally posted by Silent Guardian
um yes they would



So you're saying that if I was suddenly given an adamantium skeleton (barring any of the negative effects of adamantium, and let's even assume there is no additional weight), I would be twice as strong?

Originally posted by Metalmanx


So you're saying that if I was suddenly given an adamantium skeleton (barring any of the negative effects of adamantium, and let's even assume there is no additional weight), I would be twice as strong?

The adamantium bones would help you, if you were so strong, that your bones would give in on the weight before your muscles would. That's not the case since Cage's durability is always hyped.

Originally posted by Metalmanx


So you're saying that if I was suddenly given an adamantium skeleton (barring any of the negative effects of adamantium, and let's even assume there is no additional weight), I would be twice as strong?

one the extra weight does matter, makes you heavier, you hit harder and you are even more durable. Also your muscles become stronger, because you have to lug around the extra weight. Also ideally you have a healing factor, to balance everything out.

Basically, with Luke's upgrade he is a beast.

Originally posted by Rhinoceros
You don't think the comics matter...? Keyword here is "bio". Bios aren't primary canon or canon at all.

I didnt say they didnt. Bios are innocent until proven guilty. The reason why bios are not primary sources...usually is because they get strength levels wrong alot. However they get alot of other stuff right eg. bios tend to get general description of powers correct and even if they get exact strength levels wrong they tend to be right about ranking.

In the case of Wolverine he doesnt actually have peak-human strength he has superhuman strength, which means the bio is incorrect about his strength level but not about it being doubled. Also wiki stated that Wolverines strength is increased by adamantuim.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jamdav86/Strength_level_(comics)

Peak Human:
Wolverine (without Adamantium skeleton) (800 lb)

Enhanced Human:
Wolverine (with adamantium skeleton) 910 kg (1 ton)




Originally posted by Rhinoceros

Wolverine being able to pull an elevator suggest that he has enhanced strength, not that his bones are the cause of it.

No it doesnt. Wolverine was climbing upwards and the lift was hanging off one arm. That lift weighed several tons probably and hes never pulled that much weight on one arm before. Considering the fact that his arms would never fall off because of his bones im pretty sure the adamantuim bones helped.


Originally posted by Rhinoceros

He had superstrength way before he ever got adamantium.


Like I said bios get exact strength levels wrong but that doesnt mean they are incorrect about a strength boost.

Originally posted by Rhinoceros

I think the weapon x dudes also augmented his speed and healing ability. If they had just given him an adamantium skeleton, he would have healed slower and been slower. They obviously augmented him some other way too. (When Sabes first got the adamantium, Logan didn't notice anything being different until he hit a bone)

That doesnt mean that the adamantuim didnt boost his strength. At the end of the day its stated that Wolverine has a strength increase from Adamantuim and theres no reason why Sabretooth shouldnt.



Originally posted by Rhinoceros

No you don't. Only thing you have is one lousy bio and a pretty damn bad logic to boot.

No not at all. Again all you have is your opinion. Two bios is better than you stating something is incorrect.

Its not lousy logic at all. Logically adamantuim should increase your strength because yours bones wont break and Sabretooth is not any different from Wolverine except hes taller and has blonde hair, so it could damn well be argued that part of his strength boost was from adamantuim.



Originally posted by Rhinoceros

Spider-man holds back a lot and he's not a brawler.

He doesnt hold back when fighting people with superhuman durability. Hes not a braeler but hes still a skilled combatant.

Originally posted by Metalmanx


So you're saying that if I was suddenly given an adamantium skeleton (barring any of the negative effects of adamantium, and let's even assume there is no additional weight), I would be twice as strong?

When you can already lift 2 tons 100lbs isnt going to do anything.



Originally posted by Rhinoceros
The adamantium bones would help you, if you were so strong, that your bones would give in on the weight before your muscles would. That's not the case since Cage's durability is always hyped.

Doesnt matter adamantuim is massively more durable than Cage is and therefore the principle will remain the same.

Originally posted by Brutacus
So it's more likley that abom get's one shotted or beaten by this upgraded version of luke who is still a lot weaker than hulk who abom fought for years.

Than for abom to beat luke cage?


Is that what I said, you keep putting words into my mouth.


Originally posted by Brutacus

The strenght diffrence between the two is still a lot.
Also look at the size diffrence luke is not a small guy, but put him next to abom he is a little guy that would give abom also the reach advantage luke has to get in close to punch abom.

The same could be said about him and Orca, despite that he was able to trade blows with him.

Oh and heres another one.

http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/James_Howlett_%28Earth-616%29#Strength_level

Strength level
As a result of Wolverine's constant cellular regeneration and the additional weight and tensile strength of his skeleton he has some degree of superhuman strength enabling him to press somewhere in excess of 800 lbs but not more than 2 tons.



Please dont bother pointing out that his strength levels is not just about his adamantuim I didnt say it was.

So you didn't say that this version of luke cage would beat Abom???

I mean think about it, for luke cage to beat abom would be a high end feat even this upgraded version.

And for Abom to lose to this luke cage would be a very low feat in my opinion.

So I still say abom beats this luke 8 out of 10 times.

Wonderman beat Abom, and Luke has gotten the better of Wonderman. Luke bends Abom over and makes him say uncle with this upgrade.

Originally posted by Brutacus
So you didn't say that this version of luke cage would beat Abom???


Just because I said he can beat Abom doesnt mean that I think he will one-shot him.

Originally posted by Brutacus

I mean think about it, for luke cage to beat abom would be a high end feat even this upgraded version.

And for Abom to lose to this luke cage would be a very low feat in my opinion.

So I still say abom beats this luke 8 out of 10 times.

No not really if Luke can duke it out with Orca who is class 80 he will be able to duke it out with Abomination at class 100 with upgrades. Class 80 and 100 arent a million miles away.

Originally posted by Silent Guardian
Wonderman beat Abom, and Luke has gotten the better of Wonderman. Luke bends Abom over and makes him say uncle with this upgrade.

To be fair WM was holding back, but he was kept underestimating Abom as well otherwise WM may have actually stomped him.

Originally posted by Silent Guardian
Wonderman beat Abom, and Luke has gotten the better of Wonderman. Luke bends Abom over and makes him say uncle with this upgrade.

sure bend a guy that is atleast 2 times stronger explain how he's going to do that???

It is wrong if you can't find anything in the comics to back it up. It's called speculation.





Assuming you're talking about this: http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/161/elevatorliftqe9.jpg

I don't think it's that big of a strength feat myself. He's not pulling the elevators upwards, but he's just holding it in place. It's a great testament of the strength of his grip, but even if he was pulling the lift upwards, I don't see how you could decide that it's his adamantium skeleton that allows him to do it.




Has it been proven in the comics, that the adamantium skeleton doubles his strength? If not, it's just speculation. Hell, not even Sabretooth's strength was doubled when he got the adamantium (Logan still being able to combat him, and even win and that Sabretooth doesn't have feats for a class 20 strength)





He might've gotten a slight strength boost from the adamantium skeleton, but not double his original strength like you claim. Wolverine didn't notice a difference in Sabretooth's strength when Sabretooth first got the adamantium skeleton.




I have evidence from comics that goes against your little theory... And some common sense too, which you apparently lack. I DON'T HAVE TO PROVE ANYTHING, THE GOD DAMN BURDEN OF PROOF FALLS ON YOUR SHOULDERS. You've yet to prove that anyone who gets a adamantium skeleton, get's their strength doubled.

Like it has been said before. Sabretooth had superstrength before he was augmented in anyway (could "easily" crush an iron dumbbell) then his strength was upgraded in Death Hunt arc, he didn't get his first adamantium skeleton until way later, and even then Wolverine didn't mention anything about his strength. I find it highly unlikely that Sabretooth had only his adamantium back as an upgrade. Wolverine commented on his speed, strength and healing factor. It's more likely that Wolverine's and Sabretooth's base strength came from their healing factors.





PLEASE TELL ME WHAT IS YOUR LOGIC BEHIND THIS. How does one such as MetalmanX get a strength boost from adamantium? It's not a god damn magic wand that lets your wishes come true..




Plz tell me how this works..... Luke Cage isn't strong enough to break his bones by lifting something.. (His skin is supposed to be strong as titanium, imagine how strong his bones are. And he's *only* a class 25) How on earth would the adamantium bones help him in any way?

Originally posted by Rhinoceros
It is wrong if you can't find anything in the comics to back it up. It's called speculation.

Not entirely as I explained already bios get exact strength levels incorrect but dont get general powers and abilities incorrect, and since bios are based on the comics its more proof that just saying it doesnt.

3bios is better than just saying it doesnt. It may not double his strength but at the end of the day I have more proof than just an opinion.



Originally posted by Rhinoceros

Assuming you're talking about this: http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/161/elevatorliftqe9.jpg

I don't think it's that big of a strength feat myself. He's not pulling the elevators upwards, but he's just holding it in place. It's a great testament of the strength of his grip, but even if he was pulling the lift upwards, I don't see how you could decide that it's his adamantium skeleton that allows him to do it.

Yeah you're right the fact that hes never pulled something that weighs that much with one arm and the fact that his arms wont fall off because he has an adamantuim skeleton is neither here nor there.

Im pretty sure I saw a poster show the rest of what happened and Wolverine was pulling the lift for some distance.



Originally posted by Rhinoceros

Has it been proven in the comics, that the adamantium skeleton doubles his strength? If not, it's just speculation. Hell, not even Sabretooth's strength was doubled when he got the adamantium (Logan still being able to combat him, and even win and that Sabretooth doesn't have feats for a class 20 strength)

Not entirely as I explained already bios get exact strength levels incorrect but dont get general powers and abilities incorrect, and since bios are based on the comics its more proof that just saying it doesnt.

3bios is better than just saying it doesnt. It may not double his strength but at the end of the day I have more proof than just an opinion.



I dont even think he was class 10 before the skeleton. The comics are ambigous but I can think of at least one example of his skeleton assisting with strength.



Originally posted by Rhinoceros

He might've gotten a slight strength boost from the adamantium skeleton, but not double his original strength like you claim. Wolverine didn't notice a difference in Sabretooth's strength when Sabretooth first got the adamantium skeleton.

Yeah and you said he had other upgardes as well. Wolverine didnt notice those either. Hell I think LDs got upgrades when she sfirst fought Wolverine and he didnt mention them all either....could be wrong though.



Originally posted by Rhinoceros

I have evidence from comics that goes against your little theory... And some common sense too, which you apparently lack. I DON'T HAVE TO PROVE ANYTHING, THE GOD DAMN BURDEN OF PROOF FALLS ON YOUR SHOULDERS. You've yet to prove that anyone who gets a adamantium skeleton, get's their strength doubled.

What proof? Don't be insulting you fail to understand my point and I even understand your point. Lets try this again.

Not entirely as I explained already bios get exact strength levels incorrect but dont get general powers and abilities incorrect, and since bios are based on the comics its more proof that just saying it doesnt.

3bios is better than just saying it doesnt. It may not double his strength but at the end of the day I have more proof than just an opinion.

If you actually understood my point you wouldnt resort to insults.



Originally posted by Rhinoceros

Like it has been said before. Sabretooth had superstrength before he was augmented in anyway (could "easily" crush an iron dumbbell)



and you're not listening. Even Wolverine probably had superhuman strength before his adamantuim. What bios get incorrect is exact strength levels that doesnt mean his strength wasnt doubled.

Originally posted by Rhinoceros

then his strength was upgraded in Death Hunt arc, he didn't get his first adamantium skeleton until way later, and even then Wolverine didn't mention anything about his strength. I find it highly unlikely that Sabretooth had only his adamantium back as an upgrade.

He probably didnt however that doesnt mean that he didnt get a strength boost.

Originally posted by Rhinoceros

Wolverine commented on his speed, strength and healing factor. It's more likely that Wolverine's and Sabretooth's base strength came from their healing factors.

Lets see if I can get this straight. You are speculating and insulting me about speculating but you're doing it yourself? Got anything to say that their strength mainly comes from HF and not the skeleton?



Originally posted by Rhinoceros

PLEASE TELL ME WHAT IS YOUR LOGIC BEHIND THIS. How does one such as MetalmanX get a strength boost from adamantium? It's not a god damn magic wand that lets your wishes come true..


Whats so difficult to understand? Wolverine already has superhuman strength prior to the adamantuim 100lbs isnt going to hinder him.


Originally posted by Rhinoceros

Plz tell me how this works..... Luke Cage isn't strong enough to break his bones by lifting something.. (His skin is supposed to be strong as titanium, imagine how strong his bones are. And he's *only* a class 25) How on earth would the adamantium bones help him in any way?

Again I really dont understand what you're problem is and you really need to calm down. Adamantuim is still vastly more durable so its should still assist him in lifting. In some circumstances titanuim would crumble just as quickly as bone would.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
In some circumstances titanuim would crumble just as quickly as bone would.

Under just 25 tons of weight? I seriously doubt it.

Originally posted by Bentley
Under just 25 tons of weight? I seriously doubt it.

Doesnt matter though because as I stated adamantuim is vastly more durable than titanuim which is why ths strength boost still applies to Cage.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Man that was badass. Power Man is class 20 by the way. Actually thats between 20-30.

http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/a/atlas.htm


Strength Level: At his normal six foot size, Goliath can lift (press) between 20 and 30 tons, depending upon level of fatigue and other factors. At his maximum 60-foot stature, Atlas possesses Class 100 strength (able to lift in excess of 100 tons).

That was Cage at class 10. At class 25 he should be able to handle somebody class 75, with upgrades its not a stretch to say class 100.

how does the metal make cage 2xstronger, how long has he had teh skeleton?
is logan 2x stronger because of his adamntium, he was made stronger due to enahce ments to his strength as well?

i don't see how it increases 'press lifting strength' aside from reinforcing his bones so they won't break from the heavy load's pressure , they don't help with lifts so much as tehy help with supporting load feat

the weight of the adamntium would not be significant for cage to train with and get stronger its only 100lbs even for someone the size of sabretooth) that is 0.2% of 25 tons , (i.e. i wouldn't be stronger if i increased weight by 500g) it is more significant to logan to whom the weight is heavier

the only thing that could potentially increase his strength is the HF , allowing him to lift more fror longer without muscles tearing or healing too quickly to let the weight damge him permanently

Originally posted by ankur29
how does the metal make cage 2xstronger, how long has he had teh skeleton?
is logan 2x stronger because of his adamntium, he was made stronger due to enahce ments to his strength as well?

i don't see how it increases 'press lifting strength' aside from reinforcing his bones so they won't break from the heavy load's pressure , they don't help with lifts so much as tehy help with supporting load feat

the weight of the adamntium would not be significant for cage to train with and get stronger its only 100lbs even for someone the size of sabretooth) that is 0.2% of 25 tons , (i.e. i wouldn't be stronger if i increased weight by 500g) it is more significant to logan to whom the weight is heavier

the only thing that could potentially increase his strength is the HF , allowing him to lift more fror longer without muscles tearing or healing too quickly to let the weight damge him permanently

If your bones cant break you can lift more. It might not be 2x but there would be an increase.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
If your bones cant break you can lift more. It might not be 2x but there would be an increase.

yh , but it wouldn't be that much more, stronger bones don't make your muscles stronger or bigger which is how strength increases

Originally posted by ankur29
yh , but it wouldn't be that much more, stronger

It might be.

Originally posted by ankur29

bones don't make your muscles stronger or bigger which is how strength increases

Still doesnt change the fact it would make you stronger, at any rate he doesnt need a massive strength boost to hurt and stun a class 100 all he needs is a 5-10 ton increase.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
It might be.



Still doesnt change the fact it would make you stronger, at any rate he doesnt need a massive strength boost to hurt and stun a class 100 all he needs is a 5-10 ton increase.

i dunno about 10 more tons but 5, fair enough , he has fought rhino sucessfully , i was justy saying that metal bones don't mean strength doubles

however one must comapre luke's striking force to hulks , Abombination is fairly unpahsed by a calm hulk (90 ton) , luke still comes up pretty short asl abomination woudlnt be phased much

She Hulk said that no one would be able to affect Abomination with skill-based strikes if they did not have her strength backing it.

Originally posted by ankur29
i dunno about 10 more tons but 5, fair enough , he has fought rhino sucessfully , i was justy saying that metal bones don't mean strength doubles

and the HF could add another 5 tons.

Originally posted by ankur29

however one must comapre luke's striking force to hulks , Abombination is fairly unpahsed by a calm hulk (90 ton) , luke still comes up pretty short asl abomination woudlnt be phased much

I dunno about that WM seemed capable of fighting Abom but he kept underestimating him and being complacent.

Luke has sown to be able to stun people 3 times stronger than himself if he gets 10 ton increase he could possibly KO somebody in class 100.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
She Hulk said that no one would be able to affect Abomination with skill-based strikes if they did not have her strength backing it.

Well that makes it clear cut. Anyway Luke punches are harder than people in his strength range so even if he isnt 75 tons he can hit as hard as somebody in 75 tons.

I'm surprise Noone brought this up...
But besides wolverine
and sabretooth
.... Bullseye has an adamantium skeleton...

And I don't think anyone would say that bullseye has wolverine level feats or even cap level for that fact...

So bullseye who prior to the adamntium would be peak human due to all his training.... Now while I'll oncese it may make his slightly more agile durable and stronger... I havent seen any feats near wolvie level

The wwh vs wolverine feat had nothing to do with hulks strngth but his intelligence... He knew that the brain matter was weak while the bones were strong... Savage hulk, fixit and professor have never tried to go for the brain damage with wolverine...

Basically wwh gave wolverine shaken baby syndrome!!

Originally posted by rotiart
The wwh vs wolverine feat had nothing to do with hulks strngth but his intelligence... He knew that the brain matter was weak while the bones were strong... Savage hulk, fixit and professor have never tried to go for the brain damage with wolverine...

Basically wwh gave wolverine shaken baby syndrome!!

It had a lot to do with his strength. You think Spiderman can hit Wolverine as fast and hard enough to do that to wolverine. Savage, fixit, professor could all do that, but they never thought of it.

Originally posted by rotiart
I'm surprise Noone brought this up...
But besides wolverine
and sabretooth
.... Bullseye has an adamantium skeleton...

And I don't think anyone would say that bullseye has wolverine level feats or even cap level for that fact...

So bullseye who prior to the adamntium would be peak human due to all his training.... Now while I'll oncese it may make his slightly more agile durable and stronger... I havent seen any feats near wolvie level

He showed increased durability in a Captain America issue. I think he only has an adamantuim spine.

Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
It had a lot to do with his strength. You think Spiderman can hit Wolverine as fast and hard enough to do that to wolverine. Savage, fixit, professor could all do that, but they never thought of it. ? I dontthink spiderman could do what hulk did. Buy at 100 tonner it wouldn't make a discernible difference as all versions of the hulk would be shaking up wolverines brain from the punches

*bump*

Good to see you Deadline. Havent seen you post in a long time.

Abomination destroys him by the way.

Even with this horrid downgrade, Luke still murders abomination.

Originally posted by carver9
Good to see you Deadline. Havent seen you post in a long time.

Cheers.

Originally posted by carver9
Abomination destroys him by the way.

Not sure about that. Haven't you heard Luke is more than class 50 now.