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No bfr. Can Doom defeat Juggs?

Not likely

he can certainly remove helm, but after that i think he may be phucked with a capital F

Originally posted by Bentley
No bfr. Can Doom defeat Juggs?

I think so.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
I think so.

How?

does he have Prep? Otherwise doom is dead

1. Remove the helmet.

2. Cast a spell which would affect his mind.

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/4462/mightyavengers10010rc8.th.jpg

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
1. Remove the helmet.

2. Cast a spell which would affect his mind.

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/4462/mightyavengers10010rc8.th.jpg

I think Doom was able to play off of Sentry's frail mind in that case. Not sure how well it would work on others.

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
I think Doom was able to play off of Sentry's frail mind in that case. Not sure how well it would work on others.

Yeah, Victor stated that he used a simple spirit reversal spell, but I'm sure he has more at his disposal.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Yeah, Victor stated that he used a simple spirit reversal spell, but I'm sure he has more at his disposal.

So you have no proof son? uhuh

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
1. Remove the helmet.

2. Cast a spell which would affect his mind.

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/4462/mightyavengers10010rc8.th.jpg

Magic does not equal telepathy.

And how is Doom supposed to get that helmet off? Some people make it sound so easy.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Magic does not equal telepathy.

Juggernaut isn't invulnerable to magic though.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
1. Remove the helmet.

2. Cast a spell which would affect his mind.

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/4462/mightyavengers10010rc8.th.jpg

As Ironman said to Doom that Sentry would kill him, so would the Juggernaut.

Doom dies.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Juggernaut isn't invulnerable to magic though.

It takes a lot of magic of incredible strength to affect him.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
It takes a lot of magic of incredible strength to affect him.

Crimson bands of Cyttorak?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Crimson bands of Cyttorak?

Namor has destroyed those.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Crimson bands of Cyttorak?

No Doom can't just use Cyttorak's power against him. Unless I'm mistaken he hasn't tried to do anything magical that pertains to Cyttorak's power.

Doom is going to have a Hell of a time fighting magic with magic and trying not to get his head punched in at the same time.

Originally posted by Bentley
Namor has destroyed those.

PIS.

Cain was immobilized by them IIRC. It was Strange again who cast the spell.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
PIS.

Cain was immobilized by them IIRC. It was Strange again who cast the spell.

Captain Britain also broke them.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
PIS.

Cain was immobilized by them IIRC. It was Strange again who cast the spell.

As far as I know, only Cyttorak himself has used the Crimson Bands on Cain. I don't think Cain has even really fought Dr. Strange outside of that one meeting where they didn't really fight each other. I think that the strength of the Bands also depends on the user. So Cyttorak's spell is more powerful and stronger than Dr. Strange's.

Originally posted by long pig
Hulk gets wrapped up in the bands, even he can't get out. He's tried thousands of times but he's only been able to on an alternate dimension.

Honestly, anyone breaking the bands is PIS. They are as strong as the binding that holds the universe together, and as far as I know, Hulk or Namor aren't stronger than the universe.

He gets Hulk.
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/4497/hulkdontcq1.th.jpg

He gets Namor. He didn't even have to use the bands with Namor.
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/6308/namordidntnz9.th.jpg

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
As far as I know, only Cyttorak himself has used the Crimson Bands on Cain. I don't think Cain has even really fought Dr. Strange outside of that one meeting where they didn't really fight each other. I think that the strength of the Bands also depends on the user. So Cyttorak's spell is more powerful and stronger than Dr. Strange's.

Strength of the Bands is always the same - all the user has to do is bind the target and maintain the spell.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Strength of the Bands is always the same - all the user has to do is bind the target and maintain the spell.

So when Hulk broke out of the Bands, it was because Dr. Strange couldn't keep the spell going?

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
So when Hulk broke out of the Bands, it was because Dr. Strange couldn't keep the spell going?

What issue? Is that canon?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
What issue? Is that canon?

It's in a Hulk comic. I think Grey Hulk was possessed by something. It turned him all black and had a different attitude about him. I'll look for it, but it will take me a while.

Doom can fly, so Juggernaut's gonna do what exactly :/

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
It takes a lot of magic of incredible strength to affect him.

Yeah, like Shatterstar's sword.

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
I'll look for it, but it will take me a while.

Thanks.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Doom can fly, so Juggernaut's gonna do what exactly :/

QFT.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Yeah, like Shatterstar's sword.

To be fair, in the same issue he was scratched by Feral. PIS incarnated.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Doom can fly, so Juggernaut's gonna do what exactly :/



Yeah, like Shatterstar's sword.

Yeah because in that issue his sword did nothing but piss him off. He regenerated like a second later. His magic was not of sufficient strength to actually hurt him.

It seems I was somewhat wrong. This is Dark Hulk, and he broke them by some other means than by strength.

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/8011/theincrediblehulkv23711eo5.th.jpg

The Crimson bands depend on who invokes them. As mentioned Namor broke them, so did Quasar/Captain Britain and Sentry did IIRC.

In a random encounter, Juggernaut destroys Doom.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
No Doom can't just use Cyttorak's power against him. Unless I'm mistaken he hasn't tried to do anything magical that pertains to Cyttorak's power. You are mistaken.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
The Crimson bands depend on who invokes them. As mentioned Namor broke them, so did Quasar/Captain Britain and Sentry did IIRC.

In a random encounter, Juggernaut destroys Doom. I don't remember Sentry ever being bound by the bands.

I could be wrong though.

Originally posted by Mindset
I don't remember Sentry ever being bound by the bands.

I could be wrong though. didnt doom use them on him recently,also a superskrull broke out of strange bands in Illuminati.

How far away do they start out from each other? Can Cain break Doom's force fields.

Doom used them on Iron Man, not Sentry.

The Mighty Avengers #9

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/4632/mightyavengers9019mt8.th.jpg http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/3079/mightyavengers9020je6.th.jpg

Originally posted by Nihilist
didnt doom use them on him recently,also a superskrull broke out of strange bands in Illuminati. No. Doom used different magic on Sentry. The Skrull-Bolt did break out of the Crimson Bands, which Dr. Strange cast in his Astral Form and also later mentions something along the lines that he wasn't prepared. Also, he's been depowered somehow and is trying to relearn his magic.

Namor only broke out of the Crimson Bands when Dr. Strange had already been knocked unconscious.

Dr. Strange once turned the Crimson Bands against Dr. Doom, who at the time, cast them incorrectly.

Captain Britain and Quasar broke the Crimson Bands after Modred had already left the area and was running around with a mind-controlled Phoenix trying to advance his evil plans.

Strength of Crimson Bands are directly affected by the amount of unbroken concentration the caster has at that time. Which might be meaningless since I don't know whether the Crimson Bands, unless used by Cytorrak himself, would be useful against an avatar of Cytorrak, which Juggernaut is IIRC. And without BFR he ain't beating Juggernaut. Doom's stolen magical power before, but I don't see him stealing Juggernaut's power except through the slimmest of possibilities.

9/10 Curbstomp for Juggernaut.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
No. Doom used different magic on Sentry. The Skrull-Bolt did break out of the Crimson Bands, which Dr. Strange cast in his Astral Form and also later mentions something along the lines that he wasn't prepared. Also, he's been depowered somehow and is trying to relearn his magic.

Namor only broke out of the Crimson Bands when Dr. Strange had already been knocked unconscious.

Dr. Strange once turned the Crimson Bands against Dr. Doom, who at the time, cast them incorrectly.

Captain Britain and Quasar broke the Crimson Bands after Modred had already left the area and was running around with a mind-controlled Phoenix trying to advance his evil plans.

Strength of Crimson Bands are directly affected by the amount of unbroken concentration the caster has at that time. Which might be meaningless since I don't know whether the Crimson Bands, unless used by Cytorrak himself, would be useful against an avatar of Cytorrak, which Juggernaut is IIRC. And without BFR he ain't beating Juggernaut. Doom's stolen magical power before, but I don't see him stealing Juggernaut's power except through the slimmest of possibilities.

9/10 Curbstomp for Juggernaut. Where have you been? awesome

Doom hypnotizes him.

Or just blasts him to pieces.

Originally posted by I'm Bran
Doom hypnotizes him.

Or just blasts him to pieces. I love you.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
No. Doom used different magic on Sentry. The Skrull-Bolt did break out of the Crimson Bands, which Dr. Strange cast in his Astral Form and also later mentions something along the lines that he wasn't prepared. Also, he's been depowered somehow and is trying to relearn his magic.

Namor only broke out of the Crimson Bands when Dr. Strange had already been knocked unconscious.

Dr. Strange once turned the Crimson Bands against Dr. Doom, who at the time, cast them incorrectly.

Captain Britain and Quasar broke the Crimson Bands after Modred had already left the area and was running around with a mind-controlled Phoenix trying to advance his evil plans.

Strength of Crimson Bands are directly affected by the amount of unbroken concentration the caster has at that time. Which might be meaningless since I don't know whether the Crimson Bands, unless used by Cytorrak himself, would be useful against an avatar of Cytorrak, which Juggernaut is IIRC. And without BFR he ain't beating Juggernaut. Doom's stolen magical power before, but I don't see him stealing Juggernaut's power except through the slimmest of possibilities.

9/10 Curbstomp for Juggernaut.

This post ftw.

Doom would have a hard time without prep. On the other hand he could quite easily stalemate because he can just levitate and turn on his force field to give himself some time to think about a plan. Maybe experiment with hypersonics (like Nimrod used), hypnosis, some of the magic he knows, etc and see if anything works. Sonics might be the most effective. If nothing worked then he would probably just leave and lose the battle by exiting the battlefield.

With prep is a different matter as he might be able to come up with more powerful magical artifacts or sonic/mind control devices.

With prep I think he could. With no prep there is no way.

Doom defeats Juggs by stealing Juggs' powers

or invent a still-uninvented-device-that-will mess-up-juggs Laser Gun or something..

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Doom used them on Iron Man, not Sentry.

The Mighty Avengers #9

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/4632/mightyavengers9019mt8.th.jpg http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/3079/mightyavengers9020je6.th.jpg sentry walked throught dooms magic iirc then.

In all actuallity theirs no way doom wouldn't know about this fight beforehand. I mean what does the juggernaut sneak up on him?! how much prep time would he really need? In order to steal galactus AND beyonders powers he took a very minimal amount of time.

He built tech for those situations. It wasnt just they met on an open feild and started fighting as this situation suggests. They have their basic equipment. So juggernaut has his "Juggernaut-ness" and doom has his doom armor and the normal stuff for supplies. So no crafting a special juggernaut removal machine in the early seconds of the fight...

Originally posted by Nihilist
sentry walked throught dooms magic iirc then. Nope

LOL at anyone thinking Juggernaut could take out doom, prep or no.

Doom is (depending on who you ask) the #1 or #2 mind on marvel earth. Juggernaut is an idiot.

Doom doesn't have to kill juggernaut, (which might indeed be impossible) just either KO him (as nimrod did with sonics) or immobilize him, as SPIDER MAN did by tricking him into walking into a sufficiently deep pool of concrete.

The odds are highly likely doom has some kind of sonic equipment either in his suit or in his castle. If (in an unlikely event) he DOESN'T, doom is perfectly capable of whipping up a sonic device in seconds from scrap material.

Doom is perfectly capable of getting juggy's helmet off. Longshot's knives were able to weaken it's seals enough for rogue to simply pull it off, thunderstrike with the bloodaxe was able to take it clean off in one strike. Both of those were explained as being able to do this because they were "magic items." Juggernaut (and his armor) have a magic weakness! Doom is (or was) a candidate for sorceror supreme! do the math. This opens up juggernaut to any number of magical/telepathic attacks on his mind that WILL KO him.

Doom has the ability to switch minds with any target just by concentrating, AND has power stealing equipment that's stolen power from the silver surfer, captain universe, AND Galactus. Juggernaut is screwed if Doom decides to simply take his powers, or switch bodies with him and make HIMSELF the avatar of cyttorak.

Outside of a slugfest, there's no realistic fight in which Juggernaut would take out doom. Doom is far too intelligent and is sitting on way too many resources. What's juggernaut going to do to doom? Punch him? The guy has shields that stood up to point blank shots from a watcher with a cosmic cube.

Doom 10/10 here.

This is in a closed arena with nothing around except standard equipment as for forum rules.

Originally posted by Bentley
This is in a closed arena with nothing around except standard equipment as for forum rules.

Which means what, exactly? read my post.

Doom can use sonics, which may or may not be standard equipment in his armor (would be odd if it wasn't, but debatable)

OR

Step 1.) magical blasts to remove the helmet (standard for doom)

Step 2.)mind switch (standard equipment) to steal Juggy's powers, or KO via magical/mental attacks on Juggy's mind.

All of this can be done by easily staying out of juggy's range, since juggernaut can't fly, and Doom's armor has jets built in.

Doom isn't an idiot. The only way juggernaut wins this is if doom gets up close and decides to have a punching match, and it would take MASSIVE PIS for that to happen.

Doom 10/10 in a closed environment with no prep. WITH prep isn't even a debate, it's spite.

Arrogant Doom dukes it out with the Thing uhuh

Because he can beat him.

Originally posted by Bentley
Arrogant Doom dukes it out with the Thing uhuh

Not only is the thing considerably weaker than the juggernaut, the thing isn't totally invulnerable to most physical attacks, nor does the thing have a healing factor, force fields, or infinite stamina.

Just because doom dukes it out with someone of Thing's level doesn't mean he'd be dumb enough to do it against someone of Juggs' level.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
Which means what, exactly? read my post.

Doom can use sonics, which may or may not be standard equipment in his armor (would be odd if it wasn't, but debatable)

OR

Step 1.) magical blasts to remove the helmet (standard for doom)

Step 2.)mind switch (standard equipment) to steal Juggy's powers, or KO via magical/mental attacks on Juggy's mind.

All of this can be done by easily staying out of juggy's range, since juggernaut can't fly, and Doom's armor has jets built in.

Doom isn't an idiot. The only way juggernaut wins this is if doom gets up close and decides to have a punching match, and it would take MASSIVE PIS for that to happen.

Doom 10/10 in a closed environment with no prep. WITH prep isn't even a debate, it's spite.

How will he get past his forcefield?

Can Juggs attack with his FF on?

Originally posted by Mindset
Can Juggs attack with his FF on?

Yeah he can still move with it on and stuff.