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Oh no you didn't!

But on a more serious note I'm interested in people's thoughts regarding this battle.

anything with pre ret beyonder should be spite

Beyonder solo's

beyonder solo

Loeb interfere.

Superman evolves to stop them all and kills them. He solos

Classic Beyonder Wanking knows no end. He beats Everyone including TOAA and the Presence. You know cuz he actually has defeated beings like The LT on panel and all.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Classic Beyonder Wanking knows no end. He beats Everyone including TOAA and the Presence. You know cuz he actually has defeated beings like The LT on panel and all.
Beyonder= ultimate threat

Team 1.

This is going to get ugly

Originally posted by iceman24567
This is going to get ugly

This will become the 103th PR Beyonder respect thread. awesome

Maybe Mr. Master will be occupied with the Superbowl

Lies uhuh

Beyonder easy

Team 1. Though, Superman's cosmic armor is really not defined. Yeah, he can take on any threat, but where does it STOP?!

Originally posted by cloud102
he can take on any threat, but where does it STOP?!

Lulz.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Classic Beyonder Wanking knows no end. He beats Everyone including TOAA and the Presence. You know cuz he actually has defeated beings like The LT on panel and all. Cry more

People you can't take down Superman in his armor. It will adapt to become stronger then the foe. It seems Beyonder is the strongest foe, so superman armor will just be better then him.

Superman in his armor is almost unbeatable

Originally posted by xJLxKing
People you can't take down Superman in his armor. It will adapt to become stronger then the foe. It seems Beyonder is the strongest foe, so superman armor will just be better then him.

Superman in his armor is almost unbeatable

I bet the Primal Monitor can take him.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
People you can't take down Superman in his armor. It will adapt to become stronger then the foe. It seems Beyonder is the strongest foe, so superman armor will just be better then him.

Superman in his armor is almost unbeatable Beyonder will just make his own armor.

Originally posted by Mindset
Beyonder will just make his own armor.
And then Superman will adapt

Originally posted by cloud102
You always get a kick out of me, huh? I take it, Superman stops right before God, which means right after Beyonder?

I was laughing at you saying that it can take any threat, and then asking where does it stop.

I don't care about the Beyonder to be honest, and feeding bite-threads like this isn't really my style, so I'm not going to answer that.

Originally posted by cloud102
Team 1. Though, Superman's cosmic armor is really not defined. Yeah, he can take on any threat, but where does it STOP?! It stops when Loeb quits writing forever he isnt the least bit consistent look what he did to Heroes

Originally posted by xJLxKing
And then Superman will adapt Beyonder's already adapted to his adaptation.

Originally posted by Mindset
Beyonder's already adapted to his adaptation.
But Superman adaptation is better then any adaptation which is will adopt to even a better adaptat......

Rape?

Originally posted by xJLxKing
But Superman adaptation is better then any adaptation which is will adopt to even a better adaptat...... Too late, Beyonder already adapted a better adaptation.

Originally posted by cloud102
I will hold you down, until you speak!

*dramatic ARrghh*

Yes, he is literally just short of a supreme being.

Originally posted by Mindset
Rape?

where did that come from?

Originally posted by xJLxKing
But Superman adaptation is better then any adaptation which is will adopt to even a better adaptat......

over

Originally posted by xJLxKing

where did that come from?

My pants.

Beyonder is the Supreme being in DC, but when he came to Marvel he was weaker than TOAA.

The Beyoder is a wanker and he looks like a Hispanic young Michael Jackson

He looks like Donny Osmond

Team Two. Easily.

Hm, I wonder how many people, who voted, actually read Superman Beyond and FC...

I wonder how many people actually read Secret Wars 2, I bet it's less than those who read FC/SM:B

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Hm, I wonder how many people, who voted, actually read Superman Beyond and FC...

What's strange is people saying that anyone under a Supreme Being would lose to Cosmic Armor Superman, and then giving the win to Team One here...when Beyonder actually was a Supreme Being of his own reality that dwarfed the MU in size (which in turn dwarves the DCU in size).

Hypocrisy.

Originally posted by Enyalus
What's strange is people saying that anyone under a Supreme Being would lose to Cosmic Armor Superman, and then giving the win to Team One here...when Beyonder actually was a Supreme Being of his own reality that dwarfed the MU in size (which in turn dwarves the DCU in size).

Hypocrisy.

The MU dwarves the DCU in size?

Yeah, Hypocrisy fits.

Originally posted by Mindset
I wonder how many people actually read Secret Wars 2, I bet it's less than those who read FC/SM:B

I don't think so

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
The MU dwarves the DCU in size?

DCU is 52 universes, plus 12 dimensions or so.


It's the truth. And a blatant observation.

I do.

Most people probably just saw the respect thread.

Originally posted by Enyalus
DCU is 52 universes, plus 12 dimensions or so.


It's the truth. And a blatant observation.

Truth is a bold word when one talks about the Universal concepts of two different companies

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Truth is a bold word when one talks about the Universal concepts of two different companies

52 universes for one company. Infinite universes for another.

Last time I checked, infinity is larger than 52. I didn't say Marvel was better than DC. I said the Marvel omniverse was larger. Which, empirically speaking - is true. And Beyonder's realm was much larger than Marvel's. And he was Supreme in it.

Which is why it makes no sense for someone to say 'Superman in his cosmic armor should beat anyone under a Supreme Being' and then say that he solos or that Team One wins here.


I made a factual observation. That's all.

Originally posted by Mindset
I do.

Most people probably just saw the respect thread.

Another Question if you don't mind

There seems to be an hardcore Marvel and an Hardcore DC faction.

If someone from the DC faction knows both comics, which team would he choose?

If someone from the Marvel faction knows both comics, which team would he choose?

Originally posted by Enyalus
DCU is 52 universes, plus 12 dimensions or so.


It's the truth. And a blatant observation. It's infinite according to Rip. *shrug*

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Another Question if you don't mind

There seems to be an hardcore Marvel and an Hardcore DC faction.

If someone from the DC faction knows both comics, which team would he choose?

If someone from the Marvel faction knows both comics, which team would he choose? I don't care.

Originally posted by Mindset
I don't care.

I understand

Originally posted by Galan007
It's infinite according to Rip. *shrug*

I know. But FC is more recent, and disagrees...*shrugs too*

Originally posted by Enyalus
I know. But FC is more recent, and disagrees...*shrugs too* Right, but Rip always seems to speak from an 'outside of the box' type of perspective. Meh, who really knows?

Originally posted by Galan007
Meh, who really knows?

The Monitors?







And as much as I don't like Morrison's DC work, the dude knows his cosmic stuff.

Originally posted by Enyalus
The Monitors? Or do they? mmm

Rip always seems to know more than the 'experts.'

Team 2.

Feats>No feats.

52 multiverses. That's not so little. And Marvel needs to be slapped for using the term 'omniverse'.

Originally posted by Galan007
Or do they? mmm

Rip always seems to know more than the 'experts.'

Rip is quite the badass. And to me, the Monitors are f*cking useless entities. I'll agree with you just because Rip > Monitors in sheer coolness.

Why?

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
52 multiverses. That's not so little. And Marvel needs to be slapped for using the term 'omniverse'.

Thought it was 52 universes...plus other dimensions, which are separate from those universes. Meaning, there are 52 universes. And then there are 12 or so other dimensions. Not, there are 52 universes, each with their own dozen dimensions in them.

But regardless, I didn't call the DCU little. I just stated the obvious - that being that the MU is larger. And there's no shame in that....nor was I attempting to disrespect DC.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Rip is quite the badass. And to me, the Monitors are f*cking useless entities. I'll agree with you just because Rip > Monitors in sheer coolness. Rip is always a few steps ahead of everyone, as far as knowing what's what regarding the DCU. If you remember, he was the one who introduced hypertime itself, and even showed quite a thorough knowledge of it. I'd believe him over anyone (especially the Monitors.)

And yes, he is WAY cooler. *h5*

's cool. I just hate the term omniverse.

Marvel may be larger nowadays. Just pointing out that it's much more likely that it's 52 multiverses rather than universes.

The real battle is Beyonder Vs Cosmic Armor Superman.

and beyonder will win with just a thought..

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Just pointing out that it's much more likely that it's 52 multiverses rather than universes. Where was that said?

Or are we following the 'Unnamed' line of logic that has Universe meaning Multiverse/Omniverse/Everything; when Multiverse was never stated?

Every number last I checked was a universe...

Supes wins

How does this relatively featless Superman beat the Beyonder who has countless high end feats?

'countless'


lulz.

You dispute this?

Yep.

Well, anyway, Donny Osmond solos.

If they're lucky maybe he'll cure their aids.

Originally posted by Mindset
Well, anyway, Donny Osmond solos.

If they're lucky maybe he'll cure their aids. This post was made of win.

Originally posted by Galan007
Yep.

I await your arguement.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
I await your arguement.

You used the word 'countless.'

Which is clearly not true. He was picking on that.

Clearly? How so?

Originally posted by Enyalus
You used the word 'countless.'

Which is clearly not true. He was picking on that. There ya go.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Clearly? How so? Because you can count how many feats he has? srsly

Goodness. Did you think I literally meant he has infinite feats?

He has WAY more than these 2 characters that seem to be getting the ultimate wanking these days.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Goodness. Did you think I literally meant he has infinite feats?

He has WAY more than these 2 characters that seem to be getting the ultimate wanking these days.

Galan is a picky bastard who likes to play with language.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
He has WAY more than these 2 characters that seem to be getting the ultimate wanking these days. You mustn't read many Beyonder threads if you think these two are wanked. srsly

Originally posted by Enyalus
Galan is a picky bastard who likes to play with language.

A flaw.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Galan is a picky bastard who likes to play with language. What else does he play with my good man? mmm

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
What else does he play with my good man? mmm

Three week old dead and sodomized kittens.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Three week old dead and sodomized kittens. Sodomizing kittens is overrated, the neck hole is better, you gotta decapitate them though.

Now on a serious notes, what are t3h feats of this Cosmic Armored Superman? mmm

Originally posted by Enyalus
Three week old dead and sodomized kittens.

What level do you see Superman at?

Originally posted by cloud102
What level do you see Superman at?

This version of Superman is clearly multiversal. I wouldn't put him over high abstracts like Lucifer or LT, though (because I know those two have come up in previous debates.) And I wouldn't put him over either PR MM or PR Beyonder, either.

And most of the uber descriptions in the comic were because of the plane of existence he was on...fighting on a plane of basically primal concepts. Not because Superman's actual level of power was that great.

Originally posted by Enyalus
This version of Superman is clearly multiversal. I wouldn't put him over high abstracts like Lucifer or LT, though (because I know those two have come up in previous debates.) And I wouldn't put him over either PR MM or PR Beyonder, either.

So you think "defeat any foe" is just hyperbole and no truth to it whatsoever? I think it CAN go either way, so I really don't think it's set in stone.

Originally posted by cloud102
So you think "defeat any foe" is just hyperbole and no truth to it whatsoever? I think it CAN go either way, so I really don't think it's set in stone.

It's a classic no-limits fallacy. Who was the armor designed by? Monitors. And Monitor tech, while a-****ing-mazing, isn't going to turn Superman into the Be-All-End-All being. If someone put him up against Yahweh, do you think the majority would give Superman the win then? Afterall, it did say 'any foe'. That'd include God, right?

Same type of stuff was said about Doomsday when he was first introduced, and in H/P, and in the DD annual. By Darkseid himself, no less.

Originally posted by Enyalus
This version of Superman is clearly multiversal. I wouldn't put him over high abstracts like Lucifer or LT, though (because I know those two have come up in previous debates.) And I wouldn't put him over either PR MM or PR Beyonder, either.

And most of the uber descriptions in the comic were because of the plane of existence he was on...fighting on a plane of basically primal concepts. Not because Superman's actual level of power was that great.

Originally posted by Enyalus
It's a classic no-limits fallacy. Who was the armor designed by? Monitors. And Monitor tech, while a-****ing-mazing, isn't going to turn Superman into the Be-All-End-All being. If someone put him up against Yahweh, do you think the majority would give Superman the win then? Afterall, it did say 'any foe'. That'd include God, right?

Same type of stuff was said about Doomsday when he was first introduced, and in H/P, and in the DD annual. By Darkseid himself, no less.

But wasn't there MORE than Superman in the armor to begin with?

Originally posted by Enyalus
52 universes for one company. Infinite universes for another.

Last time I checked, infinity is larger than 52. I didn't say Marvel was better than DC. I said the Marvel omniverse was larger. Which, empirically speaking - is true. And Beyonder's realm was much larger than Marvel's. And he was Supreme in it.

Which is why it makes no sense for someone to say 'Superman in his cosmic armor should beat anyone under a Supreme Being' and then say that he solos or that Team One wins here.


I made a factual observation. That's all.
Poor thing. you didn't know that each of the 52 actually spins off it's own mutliverse. Nope. You didn't. It's 52 verses.

Originally posted by cloud102
But wasn't there MORE than Superman in the armor to begin with?

The Captain Atom Superman (you probably remember his name, I only remember 'Allen') killed Superman by fusing him with his anti-matter counterpart, Ultraman. The energy released he directed to a higher plane...the Plane of Forms (Sorry, I love Plato so I'm using that terminology ) ....Which, if I understood the story, is at the edge of Creation and closest to the Primal Monitor's consciousness. Which is why a pan-dimension like Limbo seemed so insignificant to Superman while he was there. And besides that, the idea of Superman is one of, if not the most, powerful symbols in the DCU. So being in that plane, he's obviously much stronger than he would be, say, on Earth. Plus he got the Cosmic Armor to boot.

So, in a short answer to your question...yes.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Poor thing. you didn't know that each of the 52 actually spins off it's own mutliverse. Nope. You didn't. It's 52 verses.

Proof?

Hypertime is the proof.

52 spins off it's own multiverse? wtf?

Hypertime.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypertime

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Hypertime.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypertime

The Kingdom is an Elseworlds, non-canon story.

I thought Hypertime was long gone.

Originally posted by cloud102
I thought Hypertime was long gone.

It is. From the article:

"Hypertime has been infrequently used in DC titles subsequent to its introduction in The Kingdom, perhaps as a result of its chief architects and proponents, writers Mark Waid and Grant Morrison, working elsewhere in the comics industry (notably for Marvel Comics). While the concept was used in two multi-part stories involving the Modern Age Superboy and Walter West the Dark Flash, many writers (such as Titans writer Jay Faerber) found that their attempts to use Hypertime were either outright rejected or their stories severely altered to allow no attempt to further expand upon the concept.

In July 2005, in promotional talks at the San Diego Comic-Con DC Executive Editor Dan DiDio effectively disavowed the concept of Hypertime, stating it would no longer be used in future DCU titles.

The Infinite Crisis series resolved the continuity problem in a different way, according to DiDio, who in a Newsarama interview said "The great part about Crisis is that all mistakes and retcons are time anomalies." DiDio's solution, as seen in the pages of Infinite Crisis, postulates reality-changing "continuity waves", generated by Superboy-Prime punching the walls of his extradimensional prison."

That's what I thought.

Originally posted by cloud102
52 spins off it's own multiverse? wtf?

Each of the 52 Earth is surrounded by a multiverse of its own. Each having multiple universes related to their verse. Like Earth 52 will be surrounded by many other universes of the 52nd section of the Orrery.

The important thing is that each of these multiverses have one version of a character. Like you're not going to get 2 Superman's in the 52nd section. In essence you have many universes I don't think they are described as infinite but given the nature of the Orrery and the Bleed there isn't an identified limit.

The 52 system is organized and gives a limited number of versions of characters but it doesn't limit the number of universes.

Originally posted by Allankles
Each of the 52 Earth is surrounded by a multiverse of its own. Each having multiple universes related to their verse. Like Earth 52 will be surrounded by many other universes of the 52nd section of the Orrery.

The important thing is that each of these multiverses have one version of a character. Like you're not going to get 2 Superman's in the 52nd section. In essence you have many universes I don't think they are described as infinite but given the nature of the Orrery and the Bleed there isn't an identified limit.

The 52 system is organized and gives a limited number of versions of characters but it doesn't limit the number of universes.

Again...proof?

Meh.

IMHO,

GEB/Lucifer/Michael/Spectre/The Source/Elaine >>> Mandrakk and Cosmic Armor Supes.



Team 2 wins

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
IMHO,

GEB/Lucifer/Michael/Spectre/The Source >>> Mandrakk and Cosmic Armor Supes.



Team 2 wins

Yeah....with the exception of maybe Spectre (IMO).

Originally posted by Enyalus
Yeah....with the exception of maybe Spectre (IMO).
Mandrakk defeating Spectre is highly debatable, .
and seems CISy/PISy.

Meh, I fail to see how The Fist of GOD could lose to someone who is more or less as powerful as COiE Anti-Monitor, unless The Presence subjected him to loss (like the COiE event)

Too bad PC Supergirl wasn't around, then. She wouldn't have needed the cosmic armor to beat Mandrakk.




(She nearly kills AM in the AM universe prior to him absorbing the power of all of it, if you recall.)

The DC Multiverse is clearly more than 52 universes. It's been shown repeatedly that the Wildstorm universes is one of the 52 Universes and that the Bleed- the "Ultramenstruum"- is in between each of these universes.

Seeing as how the Bleed exists in 196,833 dimensional space, and that each "rotation" of it creates a separate universe, the number of universes contained within the overall DC Multiverse is for all intents and purposes, utterly limitless. Axel Brass described it as basically equivalent to the number of atoms that make up the earth- trillions, upon trillions, upon trillions.

This is indisputable and on-panel.

Originally posted by tjcoady
The DC Multiverse is clearly more than 52 universes. It's been shown repeatedly that the Wildstorm universes is one of the 52 Universes and that the Bleed- the "Ultramenstruum"- is in between each of these universes.

Seeing as how the Bleed exists in 196,833 dimensional space, and that each "rotation" of it creates a separate universe, the number of universes contained within the overall DC Multiverse is for all intents and purposes, utterly limitless. Axel Brass described it as basically equivalent to the number of atoms that make up the earth- trillions, upon trillions, upon trillions.

This is indisputable and on-panel.
Cool beans.
But what does that have to do with this thread?

Originally posted by Enyalus
Too bad PC Supergirl wasn't around, then. She wouldn't have needed the cosmic armor to beat Mandrakk.




(She nearly kills AM in the AM universe prior to him absorbing the power of all of it, if you recall.)

Is there anything scarier than a PC brick aiming at you? If you're not a cosmic/skyfather level being, you're basically ****ed.

Originally posted by cloud102
Is there anything scarier than a PC brick aiming at you? If you're not a cosmic/skyfather level being, you're basically ****ed.

Wolverine wouldn't be scared. Neither would Black Adam.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
Mandrakk defeating Spectre is highly debatable, .
and seems CISy/PISy.

Meh, I fail to see how The Fist of GOD could lose to someone who is more or less as powerful as COiE Anti-Monitor, unless The Presence subjected him to loss (like the COiE event) Seemed pretty clear that Spectre and Radiant got boned by Mandrakk. Off-panel yes, but clearly boned.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Wolverine wouldn't be scared. Neither would Black Adam.

BA was surprised that he couldnt harm Superboy Prime.

Originally posted by cloud102
BA was surprised that he couldnt harm Superboy Prime.

He felt bad for beating up a little kid. So he went easy and held back. Then he learned his lesson. And WWIII happened.

Now, like Bran said - he doesn't care. And neither does Wolverine.

haha beat up a kid? Kinda the other way around.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
Cool beans.
But what does that have to do with this thread?

Look up. About half this thread is people debating whether the DC Universe is made up of 52 Universes or whether that number is inaccurate.

And, with Final Crisis and Superman Beyond, most of what's known about the DC Universe cosmology is now up for debate. That kind of stuff is just interesting to me, even though there are never really "correct" answers.

Originally posted by tjcoady
And, with Final Crisis and Superman Beyond, most of what's known about the DC Universe cosmology is now up for debate. That kind of stuff is just interesting to me, even though there are never really "correct" answers.

Marvel and DC cosmology and cosmogony are very interesting to me, too.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Marvel and DC cosmology and cosmogony are very interesting to me, too.

There used to be a massive "DC Cosmology" thread. It seems like it's time for a redux of that.

Originally posted by tjcoady
There used to be a massive "DC Cosmology" thread. It seems like it's time for a redux of that.

How good was the thread? Or was it just a bunch of babel?

Team 2