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who wins?

Fury adapts & wins

Superman adapt and wins

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
Fury adapts & wins Originally posted by xJLxKing
Superman adapt and wins

I feel like this is a ongoing fight. Never ending

supe can adapt?

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
supe can adapt?
He adopts to any threat. This includes the biggest threat to the multiverse.

ah THAT kinda "adapt"

yeah well ANY true superhero adapts, then

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
ah THAT kinda "adapt"

yeah well ANY true superhero adapts, then
No, I mean adapt. The Cosmic Armor give him that ability

Originally posted by xJLxKing
No, I mean adapt. The Cosmic Armor give him that ability **** my bad. never saw those comics tbh

what series was this? (final crisis?)



well in that case stalemate I guess :/

Fury has had loads more adaptation feats, but if we go by the the conext of their powers...this is an endless, boring stalemate.

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
**** my bad. never saw those comics tbh

what series was this? (final crisis?)



well in that case stalemate I guess :/
Final Crisis: Superman Beyond 1-2
It is very nice. He fights this guys Mandrakk who is the biggest threat universe. I don't want to spoil it for you, but it's good.

Fury.

Fury? Over an armor that stopped a being more powerful than the entire DC multiverse?

Hell with that.

And Fury only defeated a threat to the entire Marvel Omniverse.

Yeah, he must be a pussy.

They will keep adapting till they get bored.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
And Fury only defeated a threat to the entire Marvel Omniverse.

Yeah, he must be a pussy. TP is unable to acknowledge the power of a Marvel character.

"Adapting" is the most stupid power ever conceived.

Spite


CA Superman in an horrible stomp

and yes Fury is a Pussy

It's like Doomsday vs Imperiex Prime

Originally posted by Naija boy
"Adapting" is the most stupid power ever conceived.

thumbsup

facepalm at this thread.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
facepalm at this thread.

facepalm

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
and yes Fury is a Pussy

It's like Doomsday vs Imperiex Prime How so?

Originally posted by Zack Fair
facepalm

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Spite


CA Superman in an horrible stomp

and yes Fury is a Pussy

It's like Doomsday vs Imperiex Prime

Superman easily.

Originally posted by I'm Bran
Superman easily. Ich mochte fick dich.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
Ich mochte fick dich. I'd say something, but I'd get banned two weeks later for bypassing the censors.

Fury easily. (meh, how easy it is to write that)
Originally posted by TricksterPriest

Fury?

Over an armor that stopped a being more powerful than the entire DC multiverse?
Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru

And Fury only defeated a threat to the entire Marvel Omniverse.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Fury easily. (meh, how easy it is to write that)





MJJ ?

Yeah MJJ.

He was a reputable threat to the Omniverse.

Fury beat him.

Feats vs. the featless.

Who wins?

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
Yeah MJJ.

He was a reputable threat to the Omniverse.

Fury beat him. Via chain reaction iirc.

Originally posted by I'm Bran

Via chain reaction iirc.
First time I ever heard
that MJJ was going to warp the Omniverse via "chain reaction"

I've read the arc several times,
as fact is, MJJ was going to re-arrange everything with his own power,
power that resides within him and billows outward exponentially.

But I'd love to see where it's stated, heck even alluded,
that MJJ was going to do anything via "chain reaction."

Originally posted by Mr Master
First time I ever heard
that MJJ was going to warp the Omniverse via "chain reaction"

I've read the arc several times,
as fact is, MJJ was going to re-arrange everything with his own power,
power that resides within him and billows outward exponentially.

But I'd love to see where it's stated, heck even alluded,
that MJJ was going to do anything via "chain reaction." 'iirc'

Anyway, since I haven't read it in a while, I'll say what's off memory.

Wasn't it only said that he would be taking universes down one at a time?
And wasn't whatever was stated to be affected by Jaspers compared to dominoes tumbling?

I doubt Jaspers was aware that he could take out the entire omniverse in one fell swoop if he wanted.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Fury easily. (meh, how easy it is to write that)




DCU mutliverse>Marvel omniverse with void unverise that don't have any power or cosmic hierchy .

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
I doubt Jaspers was aware that he could take out the entire omniverse in one fell swoop if he wanted. wut

Originally posted by The Great Galen
DCU mutliverse>Marvel omniverse with void unverise that don't have any power or cosmic hierchy . WUT?!

Isn't this the whole reason the rule of "No bias arguments" was created?

---

Anyway, I'm about to get a re-quoted post dropped on my domepiece... I can smell it.

What part of that was hard to understand?

???

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
What part of that was hard to understand? The part where MJJ could warp the omniverse in one fell swoop.

I don't see why he couldn't. The way Merlyn explained it made it seem that Jaspers needed to be stopped before he became aware of this. It would probably look something like Wandas chaos wave, only more bizarro.

Originally posted by I'm Bran

Wasn't it only said that he would be taking universes down one at a time?
And wasn't whatever was stated to be affected by Jaspers compared to dominoes tumbling?
That's how MJJ begins warping everything (one Universe at a time)
but the speed of the spreading warp increases exponentially, (MJJ bio)
which basically as you know means,
more than one Universe will be warped with time,
and so on until the speed of the warp is so fast it takes out the rest of everything.

But, this isn't a chain reaction no matter how we look at it.

A chain reaction is something you begin, but then finishes on it's own.

Even if MJJ took out a single Universe at a time,
it'd still be his power warping each individual Universe,
unlike a chain reaction, where MJJ would take out one Universe,
and then the rest would fall on their own due to that one Universe.

A chain reaction collapse of all Universes
is something that almost happened in 1602 due to 616 falling.

Supes ofcourse

Mr. M: But Mandrak was more powerful than the freaking Spectre. He was an abstract power and more vast than the Multiverse.

Quite simply, he has the better feats. Because I will never give MJJ a win over a non-jobbing Spectre.

And the Fury ran out of gas twice. Once after it's travels. Once after it exhausted itself fighting Jaspers. The Cosmic Armor faced a far greater foe.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest

Mr. M: But Mandrak was more powerful than the freaking Spectre. He was an abstract power and more vast than the Multiverse.
And MJJ 238 was more powerful than Matrix/Merlyn,
who was an Omniversal guardian God,
and MJJ 616 was far more powerful than 238.

As for more vast than the Multiverse,
Merlyn manipulated the life-force of the entire Omniverse.
Originally posted by TricksterPriest

Quite simply, he has the better feats.
Because I will never give MJJ a win over a non-jobbing Spectre.
What feats?

Spectre being below this Mandrak is DC's problem.
Originally posted by TricksterPriest

And the Fury ran out of gas twice.
Once after it's travels.
Once after it exhausted itself fighting Jaspers.
The Fury that exhausted itself travelling the old fashion way across entire Universes,
was not at the height of its power, far below it's height in fact.

Now the Fury that fought MJJ, was at full power.

FP Fury >>> normal Fury
Originally posted by TricksterPriest

The Cosmic Armor faced a far greater foe.
I'm sorry Trick,
but I can't see how you're coming to this conclusion.

MJJ was an Omniversal threat,
a threat that would've definitely lived upto to that threat
had it not been for his anti-JJ plot device. (Fury)

In fact, Cobwab literally saw Jaspers in a potential future warping the Omniverse,
again though, had Fury not stopped him.

And Merlyn added validity to this also by predicted that if Jaspers wasn't stopped,
"the Omniverse will fall into chaos, and a new God would play dice with matter."

Originally posted by I'm Bran
Superman easily.

Very easily.

Superman uses the scraps for his new armor. AKA Superman wins.

Fury in a massive stomp

How is Fury going to win if Superman just adapt.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
How is Fury going to win if Superman just adapt. because so far the fury has shown by far greater (feats not statements) capabilities at adapting then the armour has

Originally posted by skyfather
because so far the fury has shown by far greater (feats not statements) capabilities at adapting then the armour has

Furys power wasn't infinite, he could run low on it. His feats were nice, but nothing compared to what CA is supposed to be.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Furys power wasn't infinite, he could run low on it. His feats were nice, but nothing compared to what CA is supposed to be. you got in one SUPPOSED to be.so until it shows more,fury stomps.

Originally posted by skyfather
you got in one SUPPOSED to be.so until it shows more,fury stomps.

He was over Mandrakk who in turn was > Radiant and Spectre. Fury could run low on power, while Supes couldn't, Fury couldn't always adapt instantly to new threats, while CA Supes could.

CA Supes in an horrible stomp.

Spite? Yes.

Don't feed him.

The irony of that post is hilarious.

Originally posted by skyfather
because so far the fury has shown by far greater (feats not statements) capabilities at adapting then the armour has
WHAT?? Omg, the armor adapt to ANY THREAT AS STATED. Even the greatest threat. In addition, it adapt instantly. If anything is better then Fury's

Originally posted by Mr Master
And MJJ 238 was more powerful than Matrix/Merlyn,
who was an Omniversal guardian God,
and MJJ 616 was far more powerful than 238.

As for more vast than the Multiverse,
Merlyn manipulated the life-force of the entire Omniverse.

What feats?

Spectre being below this Mandrak is DC's problem.

The Fury that exhausted itself travelling the old fashion way across entire Universes,
was not at the height of its power, far below it's height in fact.

Now the Fury that fought MJJ, was at full power.

FP Fury >>> normal Fury

I'm sorry Trick,
but I can't see how you're coming to this conclusion.

MJJ was an Omniversal threat,
a threat that would've definitely lived upto to that threat
had it not been for his anti-JJ plot device. (Fury)

In fact, Cobwab literally saw Jaspers in a potential future warping the Omniverse,
again though, had Fury not stopped him.

And Merlyn added validity to this also by predicted that if Jaspers wasn't stopped,
"the Omniverse will fall into chaos, and a new God would play dice with matter." so in that case MJJ is > Living Tribunal then right? (no cause you once said he was inferior to the abstracts, cant remember the thread) so this place Fury also above LT (yeah I'm advertising for one of my topics that got ignored )

cause if MJJ is really inferior to the abstracts then why didnt Living Tribunal just intervene & stop this?





btw Marvel writers obvously meant MJJ to be a clone of Mxyzptlk but they didnt do a good job of it :/

Mandrakk defeated the Spectre, who hasn't?

Mandrakk had the power of the multiverse? The 52 multiverse? The COIE Anti-Monitor had much more universes under his belt!

Mr. Mind could've destroyed the multiverse. Freaking Alexander Luthor jr. could! If you ask me that multiverse is not all that resistant!

Originally posted by Bentley
Mandrakk defeated the Spectre, who hasn't?

Mandrakk had the power of the multiverse? The 52 multiverse? The COIE Anti-Monitor had much more universes under his belt!

Mr. Mind could've destroyed the multiverse. Freaking Alexander Luthor jr. could! If you ask me that multiverse is not all that resistant!
He is the greatest threat. Meaning it beats AM, or anything like AM.

Was he the CURRENT greatest threat, or greatest ever?

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
Was he the CURRENT greatest threat, or greatest ever?
ever!!

Proof?

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
Proof?
Go read it! I dont know how to post picture

I guess now we can stop reading DC as there will be no better threats than that one

Originally posted by Bentley
I guess now we can stop reading DC as there will be no better threats than that one
Well till it gets updated. There are always new threats. For example: IG was considered like one of the strongest thing someone can use. That changed when HOTU came in

Once you comprehend the story, you can realize there never will be, because it can't. And the same thing applies to Superman w/'Cosmic Armour'. As Grant described them in an interview, they represent the ultimate concepts at the very edge of God and of art.

facepalm

Originally posted by illadelph12
facepalm

About time I earned a facepalm 131

This post is so full of hypocrisy.

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/020904-Grant-FC2.html

There's your interview. So what are you referring to?

Originally posted by Astner
This post is so full of hypocrisy.

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/020904-Grant-FC2.html

There's your interview. So what are you referring to?
Isn't that interview about FC:#7 ??

This thread is silly.

One on hand, you've got Superman in a rusted skin coat armor, said to be the ultimate weapon able to adapt to anything.
His foe...a cosmic vampire ghoul, who was said to be the ultimate enemy who was a multiversal threat.
This awesome power shot eyebeams of doom and hand beams of menace.

On the other hand, you've got the Fury, who adapted to mostly anything tossed at him. His foe, Mad Jim Jaspers, the man who warped reality extensively and was said to be a threat to the omniverse.

One on hand, you've got hyperbole and on the other you've got substance.

You decide, KMC!!

Well, he DID show to get stonger when fighting Mandrakk, so...

Mandrakk needs to have the feats to back up being considered the greatest threat.

Simply saying he is doesn't count.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Mandrakk needs to have the feats to back up being considered the greatest threat.

Simply saying he is doesn't count.

Specially since he got killed with a bunch of herald levelers that Odin may as well beat.

Originally posted by Bentley
Specially since he got killed with a bunch of herald levelers that Odin may as well beat.

You did not just say that. You just infered Odin could beat Mandrakk. Or beat the combined power of most of the DCU. GTFO.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
You did not just say that. You just infered Odin could beat Mandrakk. Or beat the combined power of most of the DCU. GTFO.

No, I'm saying it was a PISy death.

If DC wants to make their threats just slightly above Superman level is not my fault, but it won't convince me that I should rate them as the most powerful thing ever.

Originally posted by Mindset
I guess Grant is wrong.

Grant is never wrong. uhuh

Originally posted by Bentley
No, I'm saying it was a PISy death.

If DC wants to make their threats just slightly above Superman level is not my fault, but it won't convince me that I should rate them as the most powerful thing ever.

The Miracle was running to give the story a happy ending. So yes it was PIS, but in this case story generated PIS.

And really Morrison Superman would own Odin. He'd spit a glob of bleed into Odin's good eye, blinding him and then erase him from reality using his beautiful singing voice.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime

I recall an Marvel power hierarchy

1) GOD/the Artist
2) Pre-Retcon Beyonder
3) Living Tribunal
3) (?) Meggan full potential
3) Captain Britain with goodies
3) MJJ

a lot of 3 out there in the Marvel U
First, that list is wrong,
secondly, it's outdated,
and third, many realizations have taken place since 06' ...
Originally posted by Batman-Prime

Mandrakk is the greatest threat to the DC-Verse, the totality of DC.
Let's drop the Multiverse Omniverse bulls**t because both companies work with different Universal concepts and are bot equals.
So then MJJ = Madrakk, cause that's exactly what MJJ was.
Originally posted by Batman-Prime

We know that the Spectre at full power is LT's equal, LT had some "lowshowings" as well, the Spectre had more, but still, the Spectre had his share of high end showings as well.

Spectre and Radiant were defeated by Mandrakk, off panel and the people complain that they didn't see Mandrakk do it... they complain that the CA Supes vs Mandrakk battle was "too physical"... I bet they would complain more if the battle would happen off panel
There's absolutely no canon reason in existence
why anyone should believe that LT & Spectre are equals or otherwise.

They have absolutely no affiliation,
as they are concepts from separate omniverses/companies.
Originally posted by Batman-Prime

Anyway, the Fury, so it seems,
isn't even high enough in his own Marvel-Verse hierarchy to compete with Mandrakk,
or do you think he could beat LT????
The Fury is very high in the hierarchy of individual fighting power.

As for Fury beaten the LT?

No, then again, who knows, lol.
Originally posted by Batman-Prime

And why could he stop MJJ
Because the Fury is that badass.

The Fury's character set power is to adapt instantly,
and continuously become a greater fighting/killing machine,
it was created by a God, to be practically indestructible, (withstood the CN & Jaspers)
and with the ability to adapt to any situation it confronts,
and of course, instantly manifest not only a defensive maneuver,
but an offensive as well.
Originally posted by Batman-Prime

except of it, the Fury does't always adapts instantly, as CA Supes does.
That's not true friend,
that's Fury's ability ... to adapt instantly.

Personal question, what happen to the Marvel cosmological hierarchy? Was it going to be remade or updated?

Because a guide like that would help determine a lot of these battles.

Originally posted by Naija boy
"Adapting" is the most stupid power ever conceived.

I'd actually say that would go to the ability to weld dogs to people (yes, there is an actual character with this power)

Originally posted by Endless Mike
I'd actually say that would go to the ability to weld dogs to people (yes, there is an actual character with this power)

The ability to weld dogs to people? Which character has that ability?

Originally posted by Naija boy
The ability to weld dogs to people? Which character has that ability?

The Dog Welder, of course

http://dogwelder.com/

Originally posted by Astner

Personal question, what happen to the Marvel cosmological hierarchy?
Was it going to be remade or updated?

Because a guide like that would help determine a lot of these battles.
I agree, I was prepping a new marvel cosmic thread,
which was/is suppose to be much more organized, filled with updated corrections and info,
but,
my time has been compressed for some months now,
this is why I'm hardly here, but I still love comics dude, I looove em!

Anyways, when my workload begins to drop,
I'll have time to proceed with the thread, it's going to have many colors, and this takes time,
specially since I'm updating my scans from one site to another,
cause you can't trust imageshack, their links get corrupted after a while,
then you have to upload them again,
but first you have to crop them again from the book,
... and that sucks, specially when it's a panel so you have to commit to detailed cropping.

Anyhow, in time I'll have something, can't say exactly when.

I have to say that while I often disagree with you, I appreciate the effort you put into to your threads and heirarchies, you do a lot of research and I admire that

^^ ... thanx.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Mandrakk needs to have the feats to back up being considered the greatest threat.

Simply saying he is doesn't count.

You have to understand what Mandrakk and the Monitors are otherwise this argument goes around in circles. Storywise Mandrakk is the biggest threat DC has ever faced. He was "vampire" of story. Bascially he literally consumed story, which would make him a bit of a fourth wall character. Unlike AM and other character like MJJ, this guy was actually going to consume the very concept of reality in DC.

On panel though DS came off looking way more menacing and impressive than Mandrakk.

Originally posted by Allankles

You have to understand what Mandrakk and the Monitors are otherwise this argument goes around in circles. Storywise Mandrakk is the biggest threat DC has ever faced.
If you can destroy or remake the Omniverse in your image,
then you're the biggest threat to your respective company.

MJJ, simply falls under this category,
there's no such thing as the biggest,
since there's nothing more than the Omniverse.
Originally posted by Allankles

He was "vampire" of story.
Bascially he literally consumed story,
which would make him a bit of a fourth wall character.
In which case She-Hulk will be brought into play.
Originally posted by Allankles

Unlike AM and other character like MJJ,
this guy was actually going to consume the very concept of reality in DC.
Which is nothing scarier or more threatening than what MJJ was going to do,
which is take reality in all it's forms, then remake it in his image.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
I have to say that while I often disagree with you, I appreciate the effort you put into to your threads and heirarchies, you do a lot of research and I admire that

Not to brown nose more. But it is always a pleasure reading Mr. Masters work. I personally do agree with him most of the time

Originally posted by Mr Master
If you can destroy or remake the Omniverse in you image,
then you're the biggest threat to your respective company.

MJJ, simply falls under this category,
there's no such thing as the biggest,
since there's nothing more than the Omniverse.

In which case She-Hulk will brought into play.

That's exactly what MJJ was going to do,
take reality in all it's forms, then remake it in his image.

Remaking the omniverse in his image is what DS was doing. Mandrakk was extinguishing story.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I agree, I was prepping a new marvel cosmic thread,
which was/is suppose to be much more organized, filled with updated corrections and info,
but,
my time has been compressed for some months now,
this is why I'm hardly here, but I still love comics dude, I looove em!

Anyways, when my workload begins to drop,
I'll have time to proceed with the thread, it's going to have many colors, and this takes time,
specially since I'm updating my scans from one site to another,
cause you can't trust imageshack, their links get corrupted after a while,
then you have to upload them again,
but first you have to crop them again from the book,
... and that sucks, specially when it's a panel so you have to commit to detailed cropping.

Anyhow, in time I'll have something, can't say exactly when.

Take ur time my friend

I'll be waiting

Originally posted by Allankles

Remaking the omniverse in his image is what DS was doing.
Mandrakk was extinguishing story.
Whatever the heck that means.

Mandrakk isn't any more dangerous than any all reality destroyer.

And there's several characters that can, and have done that.

If you're still referring to some 4th Wall nonsense,
then let me know,
so I can bring out the She-Hulk scans to stomp this Mandrakk.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Whatever the heck that means.

Mandrakk isn't any more dangerous than any all reality destroyer.

And there's several characters that can, and have done that.

If you're still referring to some 4th Wall nonsense,
then let me know,
so I can bring out the She-Hulk scans to stomp this Mandrakk.

Being a 4th wall character isn't unique to Mandrakk, guys like Lobo and Myx have been known to be 4th wall characters. The issue is he was erasing all story. Remaking the universe would still be part of a story, Mandrakk was eliminating the very idea of story, because as a Monitor he feeds on the stories of the omniverse/multiverse.

Originally posted by Mr Master
If you're still referring to some 4th Wall nonsense,
then let me know,
so I can bring out the She-Hulk scans to stomp this Mandrakk.

Or Deadpool for that matter. Going to the NYC Marvel offices and holding his editor hostage at gunpoint and looking for the Senior Editor (Tom Bsomething...)

Heh.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Or Deadpool for that matter. Going to the NYC Marvel offices and holding his editor hostage at gunpoint and looking for the Senior Editor (Tom Bsomething...)

Heh.

Deadpool is one of my favorite characters but he isn't in the same ball park as guys like Myx in terms of his 4th wall powers let alone a guy who was going to consume all story.

Lobo breached the 4th wall, k.o. the writer and re-writes his comic.

Originally posted by Allankles

Being a 4th wall character isn't unique to Mandrakk, guys like Lobo and Myx have been known to be 4th wall characters. The issue is he was erasing all story. Remaking the universe would still be part of a story, Mandrakk was eliminating the very idea of story, because as a Monitor he feeds on the stories of the omniverse/multiverse.
That's some dumb shit

No offense to you, but that's just another 4 Wall stupidity in my book.

So, Mandrakk eats story, She-Hulk controls story,
heck, She-Hulk was instructing Byrne how to writer her.

So She-Hulk manipulates the writer of the Mandrakk arc,
which leads to She-Hulk winning,

see, 4th Wall action =
especially as a means of trying to pin em against opponents confined to comic book laws,
on top of that, "consuming story" wasn't all it was crack up to be as he was defeated.

Originally posted by Allankles

Deadpool is one of my favorite characters but he isn't in the same ball park as guys like Myx in terms of his 4th wall powers let alone a guy who was going to consume all story.
She-Hulk has far more 4th Wall feats than Mxy,
She-Hulk has 58 issues that involves 4th Wall affiliations/feats,
yes, practically the entire Byrne run.

Beyond this,
She-Hulk's 4th Wall awareness is literally a power set of hers even in her updated 08' bio.

Would I place She-Hulk anywhere near even let's say Silver Surfer?

Heck NO!

Originally posted by Mr Master
That's some dumb shit

No offense to you, but that's just another 4 Wall stupidity in my book.

So, Mandrakk eats story, She-Hulk controls story,
heck, She-Hulk was instructing Byrne how to writer her.

So She-Hulk manipulates the writer of the Mandrakk arc,
which leads to She-Hulk winning,

see, 4th Wall action =
especially as a means of trying to pin em against opponents confined to comic book laws,
on top of that, "consuming story" wasn't all it was crack up to be as he was defeated.

Again with the poop smileys. I don't see how what I said disqualifies Mandrakk as the greatest threat in DC. She-Hulk can only do that for a specific story as do other characters for that matter, Mandrakk was doing it for the entire DCU.

Mandrakk was also the one who created the cosmic armor, a doomsday device designed to counter any threat. He was the best of the Monitors and became more powerful through the thoughts and fears of the other Monitors.

On panel Mandrakk didn't look impressive in FC 7 probably because his true from had fallen through the ovoid and out of DC reality, the form in FC 7 was an avatar of sorts working through another Monitor.

Originally posted by Mr Master
She-Hulk has far more 4th Wall feats than Mxy,
She-Hulk has 58 issues that involves 4th Wall affiliations/feats,
yes, practically the entire Byrne run.

Beyond this,
She-Hulk's 4th Wall awareness is literally a power set of hers even in her updated 08' bio.

Would I place She-Hulk anywhere near even let's say Silver Surfer?

Heck NO!

Again with She-hulk. She doesn't do what she does for the rest of her universe so her fourth wall powers are several degrees below a Monitors as Monitors feed off of all story.

And her 4th wall awareness is just that, awareness, she doesn't consume story like a Monitor.

Can people please leave all this fourth wall nonsense out of debates? Seriously it just makes them stupid.

Mxy breached the 4th wall. Warping reality in teh real world Mxy>> All of Marvel & DC.

Originally posted by Allankles

Again with She-hulk. She doesn't do what she does for the rest of her universe so her fourth wall powers are several degrees below a Monitors as Monitors feed off of all story.
In Byrne's run, she did control the story,
therefore she controlled her universe.

Many characters made cameos,
and they were all subject to She-Hulk's fourth wall powers.

The story is the universe for any particular arc,
so if She-Hulk controls story, She-Hulk controls her universe.

Anyway, it makes no difference,
fact is, She-Hulk can simply force Mandrakk's writer to make em a chump,
again, end of story.

And yet again, we see how this 4th Wall nonsense gets goofier by the post.
Originally posted by Allankles

And her 4th wall awareness is just that, awareness,
she doesn't consume story like a Monitor.
Give me a break with this consuming story crap.

She-Hulk can tear Mandarkk off the page, end of story.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Can people please leave all this fourth wall nonsense out of debates? Seriously it just makes them stupid.

Originally posted by id369

Mxy breached the 4th wall.
Warping reality in teh real world Mxy>> All of Marvel & DC.

Dr Doom took Stan Lee hostage (toaa)that beats any 4th wall crap

Pfft. Shows how much you know.

Stan Lee no longer has any real authority, in Marvel Comics.

Originally posted by id369
Pfft. Shows how much you know.

Stan Lee no longer has any real authority, in Marvel Comics. at the time he did.

F*cking lulz at Mandrakk being compared to She-Hulk.

crylaugh

Anyhow, by this point I couldn't give a sh*t about how powerfull some people consider Mandrakk, especially since I doubt many people actually comprehended the story fully, and I'm not really interested in debating high-level concepts such as Mandrakk/Superman w/cosmic Armour against typical 'I'm so powafull!!! I'm liek 2 seconds away from warping teh Omniverse!!!' type of characters.

Originally posted by Allankles
You have to understand what Mandrakk and the Monitors are otherwise this argument goes around in circles. Storywise Mandrakk is the biggest threat DC has ever faced. He was "vampire" of story. Bascially he literally consumed story, which would make him a bit of a fourth wall character. Unlike AM and other character like MJJ, this guy was actually going to consume the very concept of reality in DC.

On panel though DS came off looking way more menacing and impressive than Mandrakk.

Eating the story was pretty much what Galactus was doing in the Celestial arc. Nobody would say Galactus is the biggest thread of the Marvel Universe.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Correctly written:


We know that the Spectre at full power is LT's equal, LT had some "lowshowings" as well, the Spectre had more, but still, the Spectre had his share of high end showings as well.


Anyway, the Fury, so it seems, isn't even high enough in his own Marvel-Verse hierarchy to compete with Mandrakk,or do you think he could beat LT????

And why could he stop MJJ

except of it, the Fury does't always adapts instantly, as CA Supes does.

Where is it stated as canon that the LT and Spectre are equals? That is what people like to claim but IMO the LT is above the spectre easily. Spectre has so many low showings it's not even funny. What Omniversal/multiversal threat has he taken out that puts him in the ballpark of the LT. He always has different hosts sometimes with more backing from God then others. All the do know is he was back FULLY by God and wasn't able to defeat the Anti Monitor. So, him losing to Mandrakk of panel comes as no surprise to me at all. Couple that with teh fact that we don't know that he didn't job.. so where you getting this we know he didn't job when the fight took place off panel I'll never get. Where you went wrong is that the Spectre equals the LT as that is a common mistake that IMO isn't true. They are close in power to a degree when Spectre is back fully but even then he still fails to get the job done.

If you think Superman Beyond was deep then you should check out some novels.

Really, in the end there was simply a story fighting another story. Basically a story within a story.

The things Mandrakk did and She-Hulk or say Mxy are two entirely different things.

Originally posted by Bentley
Eating the story was pretty much what Galactus was doing in the Celestial arc. Nobody would say Galactus is the biggest thread of the Marvel Universe.

And? First of all Mandrakk wasn't eating story he was extinguishing it, it is the Monitors that feed on story.

I don't see how remaking the omniverse beats consuming the story the omniverse is projected through.

Originally posted by Astner
If you think Superman Beyond was deep then you should check out some novels.

Really, in the end there was simply a story fighting another story. Basically a story within a story.

Beyond was certainly promoting deeper concepts than the average mainstream comic. Give props where props is due. Mandrakk was not your run of the mill big bad that rewrites reality like the Anti-Monitor or MJJ.

Mandrakk operated on thought and story, with the idea behind the Monitors being that they were immeasurably larger than the DC omniverse but split into lesser beings when they became infected with story.

The cosmic armor was a device based on thought and a representation of ultimate heroism, giving it the capacity to adapt instantly to any threat.

Mandrakk created it using the ultimate story of heroism, and it was designed especially for Supes since it is his story Mandrakk used as inspiration for the idea of the armor.

Originally posted by Allankles
Beyond was certainly promoting deeper concepts than the average mainstream comic. Give props where props is due. Mandrakk was not your run of the mill big bad that rewrites reality like the Anti-Monitor or MJJ.

Mandrakk operated on thought and story, with the idea behind the Monitors being that they were immeasurably larger than the DC omniverse but split into lesser beings when they became infected with story.

The cosmic armor was a device based on thought and a representation of ultimate heroism, giving it the capacity to adapt instantly to any threat.

Mandrakk created it using the ultimate story of heroism, and it was designed especially for Supes since it is his story Mandrakk used as inspiration for the idea of the armor.

Exactly. It's silly to think that ONLY Superman was in that armor.

Originally posted by Mr Master
First, that list is wrong,
secondly, it's outdated,
and third, many realizations have taken place since 06' ...

So then MJJ = Madrakk, cause that's exactly what MJJ was.

There's absolutely no canon reason in existence
why anyone should believe that LT & Spectre are equals or otherwise.

They have absolutely no affiliation,
as they are concepts from separate omniverses/companies.

The Fury is very high in the hierarchy of individual fighting power.

As for Fury beaten the LT?

No, then again, who knows, lol.

Because the Fury is that badass.

The Fury's character set power is to adapt instantly,
and continuously become a greater fighting/killing machine,
it was created by a God, to be practically indestructible, (withstood the CN & Jaspers)
and with the ability to adapt to any situation it confronts,
and of course, instantly manifest not only a defensive maneuver,
but an offensive as well.

That's not true friend,
that's Fury's ability ... to adapt instantly.

To the List, IIRC you made it, so I trust you about it being not up to date, I look forward to your new List .

When MJJ was the greatest threat to the Marvel-verse, why didn't LT interfer? Just curious. And was he THE Greatest threat ever?

Spectre, LT. Well Spectre is the biggest player out there, like LT he is the direct Representant of the highest power, being DC God (not Vertigo ^^) and TOAA. Spectre has his own comic so he has more low feats, which is natural in stories, LT has some low showings as well, the protege kid, which is PIS but who cares, their best feats speak for them. So that's why I see them as equals.
DC vs Marvel wasn't official but one has to admit that Marvel and DC still wrote it and decided who the two major players should be, both choosed their most powerful.

The Fury is very high, but he isn't the top dog, right?

As to Furys ability to adapt instantly

http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/7675/mjj40fq2.jpg

A month ago the transformation would have killed it, but it learns, it adapts.

So it isn't always instant. Also fury was weakened, low on juice after his MJJ fight right? Why didn't he adapted to simply have an infinite powersource?

Both companies treat their Universes different, so I trust DC when they tell us that Mandrakk is the biggest threat ever, to be the biggest threat ever. It's on panel, with radiant and spectre defeated by Mandrakk, that's the only reason i give him the credit.

Of course it's also on panel that MJJ was an threat to the omniverse, but not the biggest , and i did not see LT there nor anyone else. IMHO Thanos with the HOTU was the biggest Marvel threat ever.



BTW I don't want to say that MJJ or the Fury are weak, on the contrary, but I have some troubles to see them on LTs level. But then again I don't know as much about comics as most of the Members here

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
LT has some low showings as well, the protege kid,
I didn't realize it was a low showing to lose to someone legitimately stronger than you.

Originally posted by Allankles

I can't believe Mr. Master could even compare She-Hulk who has limited fourth wall influence to a guy who was going to extinguish the entire story of the DCU.
I can't believe you can't see that She-Hulk controlled her story,
which makes her God of her universe during the Byrne run.

She-Hulk would threaten Byrne into coming into the real world and kicking his ass,
Byrne was then forced to do her bidding.

Now, you say Mandrakk is extinguishing story, nice,
but who do you think is writing Mandrakk into doing that?

The writer of course.

And what was She-Hulk able to do?

Manipulate the Writers into doing what she wants.

... need one say more? ...


I can't believe I was coerced into debating 4th Wall logic.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime

To the List, IIRC you made it,
so I trust you about it being not up to date,
I look forward to your new List .

Originally posted by Batman-Prime

When MJJ was the greatest threat to the Marvel-verse,

why didn't LT interfer?

Just curious.

And was he THE Greatest threat ever?
LT only interferes when a being can potentially threaten to end all existence,
but MJJ, Wanda and IG/Thanos wanted to re-arrange existence into their image,
and that's ok by the LT, so long as it's balanced for space-time to flow.

MJJ is the only character in the official Marvel bios
that's considered an eternal threat to the prime Marvel Multiverse.
Originally posted by Batman-Prime

Spectre, LT. Well Spectre is the biggest player out there, like LT he is the direct Representant of the highest power, being DC God (not Vertigo ^^) and TOAA. Spectre has his own comic so he has more low feats, which is natural in stories, LT has some low showings as well, the protege kid, which is PIS but who cares, their best feats speak for them. So that's why I see them as equals.
DC vs Marvel wasn't official but one has to admit that Marvel and DC still wrote it and decided who the two major players should be, both choosed their most powerful.
There's still no proof of any kind to suggest LT and Spectre are equals imo.
Originally posted by Batman-Prime

The Fury is very high, but he isn't the top dog, right?
Right.
Originally posted by Batman-Prime

As to Furys ability to adapt instantly

http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/7675/mjj40fq2.jpg

A month ago the transformation would have killed it, but it learns, it adapts.

So it isn't always instant.
What?

I think you're taking that scan out of context.

What Moore is referring to there is that Fury was weaker a month ago,
but after absorbing a CPU that took up the inner size of a mountain,
the Fury became far more powerful.

So it's durability increased dramatically,
enough to withstand that MJJ warp.

Again, the Fury's ability to adapt was instant, that's it's character set power.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime

Also fury was weakened,
low on juice after his MJJ fight right?
Why didn't he adapted to simply have an infinite powersource?
Jeesh give the Fury a break.

MJJ warped the entire freaking 616 Universe. (core of the omniverse)
MJJ was more powerful than Merlyn (omniversal power)
MJJ's warp would've re-arranged the omniverse. (so it was infinite)

... and yet, Fury defeated that.

You don't expect the Fury to have felt the effects of this incredible battle?

The Fury wasn't God you know, MJJ was.
Originally posted by Batman-Prime

Both companies treat their Universes different, so I trust DC when they tell us that Mandrakk is the biggest threat ever, to be the biggest threat ever. It's on panel, with radiant and spectre defeated by Mandrakk, that's the only reason i give him the credit.

Of course it's also on panel that MJJ was an threat to the omniverse, but not the biggest, and i did not see LT there nor anyone else. IMHO Thanos with the HOTU was the biggest Marvel threat ever.
You did not see LT there, but we did see matrix/Merlyn there,
who at that time was arguably as powerful as the LT, or as close as one can get.

Matrix/Merlyn's power was absolute across the Omniverse,
until Jaspers manifested.

LT was/is the judge of the Omniverse,
matrix/Merlyn was the guardian of the Omniverse.

Roma was no where near matrix/Merlyn,
but since she was left with Otherworld (an entire Universe created by Melryn)
and with the Starlight Citidel (an omniversal nexus created by Merlyn)
and with the CN (created by Merlyn)
she had power & influence over all reality, so she became the successor to Merlyn.
Originally posted by Batman-Prime

BTW I don't want to say that MJJ or the Fury are weak, on the contrary, but I have some troubles to see them on LTs level. But then again I don't know as much about comics as most of the Members here
We'll never know where MJJ stands when it comes to the LT,
but I do know that no one has ever defeated 616 Jaspers except for the Fury,
and we're talking about an Omniversal threat,

I mean even after his resurrection,
he was still again going to crack the Omniverse into his image,
and yet again, luckily, the Fury was there to some how stop him.

Spectre and LT are not equal.

Not even close.

Originally posted by Mr Master



I can't believe I was coerced into debating 4th Wall logic.

Well She-Hulk is entirely irrelevant since her 4th wall powers don't even begin to approach Mandrakk's. She-Hulk is a fictional character as well and is written in whatever way the writer wishes.

Your comment about her controlling the universe was highly inaccurate since Bryne is the true authority not She-Hulk. Plus Mandrakk was affecting story in the whole multiverse not just a single story.

Mandrakk is fictional as there are no such things as cosmic vampires in real life.

Catch my drift?

Originally posted by Allankles
And? First of all Mandrakk wasn't eating story he was extinguishing it, it is the Monitors that feed on story.

I don't see how remaking the omniverse beats consuming the story the omniverse is projected through.

There is no practical difference, as we know that Mandrakk wasn't consuming the actual story, just the multiverse which is the expression of the story. As a matter of fact, there is no difference between the omniverse and the story. Galactus was eating time itself, which includes everything past and future of the universe, and Mandrakk is saying he is eating the story. But for practical proposes omniverse=story, Mandrakk and the monitors may use other names for the same thing, but it is what it is.

Wrong. What you are saying completely contradicts the entire point of Superman: Beyond and Final Crisis.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Wrong. What you are saying completely contradicts the entire point of Superman: Beyond and Final Crisis.

Are you questioning that a story is the whole content of the piece in which it's made? What's exactly the contradiction.

Superman W/cosmic armour for the easy win

Originally posted by Bentley
Are you questioning that a story is the whole content of the piece in which it's made? What's exactly the contradiction.

The people in the story are not aware that they are an part of the story or the story itself. Unlike She-Hulk, where the story and her knowledge about it had no real infulence to the continuity of the Marvelverse, this particular DC story was not only about the story itself but also about the very concept of the stories.

And if we are honest, the story of Superman, his story of heroism, is indeed the story which gave birth to all other comic stories

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
The people in the story are not aware that they are an part of the story or the story itself. Unlike She-Hulk, where the story and her knowledge about it had no real infulence to the continuity of the Marvelverse, this particular DC story was not only about the story itself but also about the very concept of the stories.

And if we are honest, the story of Superman, his story of heroism, is indeed the story which gave birth to all other comic stories

It changes nothing, a story about stories and the concept of stories is still the same, its formed with the same words/images/ideas. Eat that and you still eat the story.

The story of Superman came from Hercules, maybe his story giving birth to other stories is only canon for DC

Originally posted by Bentley
It changes nothing, a story about stories and the concept of stories is still the same, its formed with the same words/images/ideas. Eat that and you still eat the story.

The story of Superman came from Hercules, maybe his story giving birth to other stories is only canon for DC

I don't think it's the same, honestly, and it wasn't formed with the same words, ideas and images. Other writers, different artwork (also 3d) and even other images. If it's the same in your eyes, well you are welcome, I guess it's more of an opinion how one interpretes something. I can't say you are wrong, neither can i that you are right

AS Supermans Story came from Hercules

Hercules is also more of an ripoff, Gilamesh came before

Anyway, Superman has not defined the idea of heroism, neither did Herakles, but Superman defined and gave birth to the whole idea of Superheroes ^^.

I don't think it's

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
I don't think it's the same, honestly, and it wasn't formed with the same words, ideas and images. Other writers, different artwork (also 3d) and even other images. If it's the same in your eyes, well you are welcome, I guess it's more of an opinion how one interpretes something. I can't say you are wrong, neither can i that you are right

AS Supermans Story came from Hercules

Hercules is also more of an ripoff, Gilamesh came before

Anyway, Superman has not defined the idea of heroism, neither did Herakles, but Superman defined and gave birth to the whole idea of Superheroes ^^.

I don't think it's

Doc Savage existed before Superman set canons

You think that a story with different words, images and ideas is the same story? It doesn't matter as the Omniverse would still contain those stories, and even further, it would contain the stories never written until now and those who haven't been conceived as of yet.

And Galactus was eating the Omniverse, hence Mandrakk has nothing on that.

facepalm @ every post

Originally posted by Mindset
facepalm @ every post

I'm glad to know that I earned my second facepalm 131



Not so glad that it was you who gave it to me.

Originally posted by Bentley
Doc Savage existed before Superman set canons

You think that a story with different words, images and ideas is the same story? It doesn't matter as the Omniverse would still contain those stories, and even further, it would contain the stories never written until now and those who haven't been conceived as of yet.

And Galactus was eating the Omniverse, hence Mandrakk has nothing on that.

But he did not existed before Superman

BTW he was an hero inspired by hercules but he was not an Superhero

What if the story is beyond the omniverse and the omniverse is just an part of the story?

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
But he did not existed before Superman

BTW he was an hero inspired by hercules but he was not an Superhero

What if the story is beyond the omniverse and the omniverse is just an part of the story? What if I drive over to your house and punch you in the trachea?

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
But he did not existed before Superman

BTW he was an hero inspired by hercules but he was not an Superhero

What if the story is beyond the omniverse and the omniverse is just an part of the story?

You could apply that reasoning to the real world, that we are in a story that is contained in another story. By definition the omniverse doesn't only contain our world, but also the story inside the story and the story that contains the omniverse, and the story that contains that story as well. It doesn't matter, is just an iteration of elements.

Originally posted by Mindset
What if I drive over to your house and punch you in the trachea?

I would break you arms and beat you to death

Originally posted by Bentley
You could apply that reasoning to the real world, that we are in a story that is contained in another story. By definition the omniverse doesn't only contain our world, but also the story inside the story and the story that contains the omniverse, and the story that contains that story as well. It doesn't matter, is just an iteration of elements.

By definition yes but the fictional Omniverse from, say Marvel, does not contain the DC verse for example

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
By definition yes but the fictional Omniverse from, say Marvel, does not contain the DC verse for example

Yes it does



At least in Marvel canon.

Originally posted by Bentley
Yes it does



At least in Marvel canon.

Show it to me onpanel, where an non-crossover, claims that DC is part of it's omniverse. One name Like Batman or Superman is enough .

Marvel won't use an trademark name from DC in an noncrossover.

They might write brothers but still they can't use the real ones.

See it's that easy, DC owns the DC verse and they say it is not an part of marvels omniverse, marvel won't and can't decide otherwise.

They can write Spectral hooded friend, but they won't write spectre or draw him, it's an copy from an different universe not the real thing, i guess you get my point

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Show it to me onpanel, where an non-crossover, claims that DC is part of it's omniverse. One name Like Batman or Superman is enough .

Marvel won't use an trademark name from DC in an noncrossover.

They might write brothers but still they can't use the real ones.

See it's that easy, DC owns the DC verse and they say it is not an part of marvels omniverse, marvel won't and can't decide otherwise.

They can write Spectral hooded friend, but they won't write spectre or draw him, it's an copy from an different universe not the real thing, i guess you get my point

I can show you both interviews and a scan of the LT holding the embodiment of DC's megaverse in his hand, and bios to back up that effect. Its Marvel canon, despite who owns the stories!

Originally posted by Bentley
I can show you a scan of the LT holding the embodiment of DC's megaverse in his hand

Please do.