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I'm sure dozens of similar threads have been made, but none of them were made by the great Gideon, apprentice to the greatest of all (my Master, Publius). Ergo, one more will do just fine.

If you, a mere mortal, could command the great (but not as great as Gideon) Lucas to give you control over LFL and, in extension, command to redesign the entirety of the EU, what would you do?

Both Jedi and Sith get weaker the closer we get to the Empire, e.g. Ragnos=Best of the Best (but still never fully explained, I like mystery). They start getting stronger after Palpatine dies AT ENDOR WHERE HE STAYS DEAD.

Bane gets credit for Darth.

The events of KoTOR II don't happen. No Exile's wound, no Nihilus Mega-Drain, no invincible Sion.

The Dark Nest series never happen. They've always felt like an unnecessary interval between the NJO and LoTF.

The Legacy comics are scrapped and re-adapted into novels(with pictures). Krayt's order can call themselves Sith all they want, but in truth are really just Dark Jedi.

The only known Sith Lords that exist in the 3000 year period in between The Old Sith Wars and the Brotherhood of Darkness are---NO ONE. No "the Sith rule galaxy," no Andeddu or whoever. 3000 years of mystery.

That's all I can think of for now.

You want Palpatine to be the weakest of the Sith?

Shut up. Also:

Palpatine's resurrection, along with the overwhelming majority of post-RotJ material, is retarded, and as such it all goes . TCW goes, the CWC gets toned down - although Mace gets to keep most of his scene on Dantooine - pretty much all of TPM was forgettable except for Qui-Gon and Maul - who both ended up being wasted anyway - and AotC was only serviceable because of Portman, Fett - again, wasted - and a few good action scenes. Grievous is more badass, Ventress fights less, and Dooku doesn't see Anakin during the war. Starkiller is less powerful, Luke Skywalker is a little more badass but still not over the top .

Most of the Sadow/Kun era gets more fleshed out, and the concept of amulets as they are is eradicated. Starships can't blow up stars, planets, or solar systems, because only the Death Star should be that cool. Rancors aren't encountered on every planet in the galaxy. There is no "Sith magic."

Traviss is ridiculous. All of her shit goes, too. Stover and Luceno get commissioned more.

I would get rid of anything post Rotj that has sith it really ruins Vaders sacrifice to bring balance to the force would maybe keep the sith from the legacy comics as they were seen as a joke by the older sith, but that's still tarnishing Vaders legacy. I would also add more back story to the ancient sith and Anakin Solo didn't die.

The Confederacy should also be treated with relative sympathy. There's no way that such a movement could be feasible if it were regarded by the rest of the galaxy as a terrorist group; Dooku's charisma would have to be fleshed out and it would be explicitly clear that many planets believe the CIS to be a better alternative to the decaying Republic.

I don't know what the **** PR could do with Grievous though.

Lie.

Originally posted by Gideon
The Confederacy should also be treated with relative sympathy. There's no way that such a movement could be feasible if it were regarded by the rest of the galaxy as a terrorist group; Dooku's charisma would have to be fleshed out and it would be explicitly clear that many planets believe the CIS to be a better alternative to the decaying Republic.

I don't know what the **** PR could do with Grievous though.

Blame the victim? As in, his victims deserve it because they let him get hit by a shuttle (or whatever). Also, financial aid is only available to those who promise not to be unthankful by getting a job in the future.

Oh, and Ahsoka doesn't exist. That's one of my biggest gripes with TCW.

Originally posted by Publius II
Lie.

Palpatine himself couldn't make that convincing.

Palpatine made Palpatine look good. You really think it'd be all that difficult to cover up whatever "atrocities" Grievous was responsible for?

What did he do that was especially bad, anyway?

Originally posted by Publius II
Palpatine made Palpatine look good.

Because he was patient and subtle; Grievous was a being of many traits, but those weren't among his virtues.

That and Palpatine acted through proxy and pawn.



Absolutely.



Genocide, mass murder, raids on civilians. The entire galaxy feared him.

Originally posted by Gideon
Because he was patient and subtle; Grievous was a being of many traits, but those weren't among his virtues.I was about to ask when Grievous acted without Palpatine's consent, but there's an entire episode dedicated to his arrogance.

He sounds too badass to evern want to cover up.

Originally posted by Gideon
You want Palpatine to be the weakest of the Sith? Strongest of his era, weakest era.

Canonize exactly what Revan is and isn't capable of. People can have KOTOR all they want but make a novel that actually Canonizes the evnts of KOTOR and flesh out revans character. no more gary stewism.

make vader Awesome. like more powerful he was the chosen one and even though he is in a suit he should still be a top tier force user.

Originally posted by xxxpoppunker182
Canonize exactly what Revan is and isn't capable of. People can have KOTOR all they want but make a novel that actually Canonizes the evnts of KOTOR and flesh out revans character. no more gary stewism.

make vader Awesome. like more powerful he was the chosen one and even though he is in a suit he should still be a top tier force user. But, isn't he?

I would have just given no permission to create any EU if I were to be given GL's power lol.

The world have been such a better place...

I would have the EU elaborate a little more on the relationship between Anakin and Palpatine.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Strongest of his era, weakest era.

Mind explaining that to me?

Because that makes a kind of sense that... doesn't.

Originally posted by Gideon
Mind explaining that to me?

Because that makes a kind of sense that... doesn't.

I'm pretty sure he means that the PT era is the weakest era of force users and that Palpatine is the strongest force user in that era.

Originally posted by xxxpoppunker182
I'm pretty sure he means that the PT era is the weakest era of force users and that Palpatine is the strongest force user in that era.

No. I get that. What I don't get is why you'd want the ultimate villain (Palpatine) to be weaker than someone of relative insignificance (Ragnos).

He isn't the "ultimate villain" because he's the most powerful, but because of what he's done and how he's done it. When you think about it, not one of his own significant victories was the direct result of a personal battle; he's planned everything, and personally I find the intellect to be far more intriguing than raw power. I would've been perfectly happy if he hadn't fought once in the entire saga.

o ok then I'd venture to guess that he would make the PT era the weakest era because of the midichlorians.

like the higher midichlorian counts were in the beginning of time and then over the years the midichlorians were "watered down" through force-sensitive and non force-sensitive beings

^ That's another one. Midichlorians have got to go. "The Force is strong in you" is all I need to hear, not "it's over 20,000!"

Originally posted by Publius II
^ That's another one. Midichlorians have got to go. "The Force is strong in you" is all I need to hear, not "it's over 20,000!"


Then what would be the explanation of why some can touch the force, and others can't?

Originally posted by Publius II
He isn't the "ultimate villain" because he's the most powerful, but because of what he's done and how he's done it. When you think about it, not one of his own significant victories was the direct result of a personal battle; he's planned everything, and personally I find the intellect to be far more intriguing than raw power. I would've been perfectly happy if he hadn't fought once in the entire saga.

Yeah but it seems more appropriate for him to be the most powerful. I mean can you imagine another sith being able to kick his ass? It would take the scaryness out of him. His mastery of the force defines him just as much as his manipulation and planning. Throughout the entire saga we hear lines that greatly hint how powerful he was:

Anakin: " The chancellor is very powerful. You are going to need my help if you are going to arrest him".

Yoda: "If so powerful you are, why leave"?

Yoda: "Do not underestimate the powers of the emperor."

Darth Vader: "Together you and i can rule the galaxy as father and son."
(Here Vader is implying that, though a powerful warrior, he will need Lukes help to overthrow Palpatine, because alone he stands no chance.)

Darth Vader: "The emperor will show you the true nature of the force."

Also we see how Vader, the most feared being in the galaxy, gets reduced to a little child in the presence of Palpatine.

Thank you, Sidious. You put it very well.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Yeah but it seems more appropriate for him to be the most powerful. I mean can you imagine another sith being able to kick his ass? It would take the scaryness out of him. His mastery of the force defines him just as much as his manipulation and planning. Throughout the entire saga we hear lines that greatly hint how powerful he was:

Anakin: " The chancellor is very powerful. You are going to need my help if you are going to arrest him".

Yoda: "If so powerful you are, why leave"?

Yoda: "Do not underestimate the powers of the emperor."

Darth Vader: "Together you and i can rule the galaxy as father and son."
(Here Vader is implying that, though a powerful warrior, he will need Lukes help to overthrow Palpatine, because alone he stands no chance.)

He can understand the Force without necessarily being the most overwhelmingly powerful user of it.

Mindgames could do that. And as I note above, he could have a plan for everything. Like Batman, but precognitive.

I wasn't at all clear earlier, and I apologize for that.

I don't really agree that Ragnos needs to have been the most powerful ever, or that each successive generation of Jedi or Sith is weaker than its predecessor, but I appreciate the reverence and throwbacks to the rare titan of old. Even Palpatine himself notes in RoDV that "the most powerful of the ancients" were capable of what Plagueis was, what Palpatine sought to learn. Little moments like that flesh him out.

I wouldn't want the Emperor to be some sap, but he doesn't need to be "the most powerful" to be "the ultimate villain." He can easily be the most threatening being in the galaxy without being able to curbstomp all competition with a wave of his hand. Personally, his confrontation with Starkiller - when the latter was hurling him around like a doll, with the Emperor supposedly at his mercy - was a far more powerful scene than his all-out battle with Yoda. In hindsight, it actually reminds me of the interrogation scene from The Dark Knight; Batman has the muscle, but the Joker indisputably has the power. We know who's really controlling it all.

His manipulation of Luke is another favorite. I guess, to me, the greatest depictions of the character are almost universally the subtle, "behind the scenes" ones. Sithisis is absolutely incredible, Yoda's reaction to sensing Sidious' presence for the first time in LoE - it turned the stream of the Force "arctic" - is absolutely perfect, and Count Dooku's musings that Sidious was as a "black hole" in the Force, an "event horizon"; these are what make the character tick for me.

And I would make lightning pretty much exclusive to him. The fact that a cranky teenage Jedi can decimate a room with it on instinct takes the thrill and shock out of Luke's torture scene. Palpatine's the only one who makes it legitimately badass.

It doesn't really matter to me; TPM took all the mystery out of it, and that sucked. I'd probably have it just be at random. "The Force is strong" in some, but not in others.

Delete all Post RotJ EU minus the Jedi Academy trilogy, the Jedi Knight series (Kyle Katarn games), and most of Zahn's work, as Mara Jade and Palleon are the two greatest EU creations of all time. However edit Thrawn so that he's in his place, an extremely capable military tactician, nothing more nothing less. No political skill that "rivals Palpatines".

... And I guess you can keep the Tales series and the Han Solo and Lando Calrissian adventures series.

There's a "Tails" series? Fo' real?

Also, Mace Windu doesn't melt Palpatine's face. The PT 'ends' with Palpatine looking an old guy, and he simply degenerates very, very quickly. And the eyes are always yellow, because he's that far in.

Edit: He also wears robes, and only robes. He never gets flipped over a desk and hangs upside down on his chair ignominiously so we can see his lame-ass pants. He never calls Yoda his "little green friend," because that conjures up all sorts of undesirably mental images, he doesn't laugh like an idiot at everything, and he doesn't make stupid facial expressions.

Basically, most of RotS Palpatine never happened.

Ass.

Tales. My bad.

And more minority Jedi, plz. Ten thousand of them running around, and we see a bunch of aliens, one black guy, one asian girl, one indian, and a whole lot of white people.

Less Brits in power, too.

I've spent the past thirty minutes trying to put my words into something cogent. I'm getting impatient, though, so I'll just let them fly.

Palpatine really is the ultimate villain of the saga. There can be no question; without him, you don't have a story. People think I'm being rather assertive when it comes to him, but it's true. He's more important than Ragnos, than Revan, than Bane. There are only two characters that I can think of who rival him in terms of importance and those would be Anakin and Luke Skywalker. No one else is really essential to the story at all and can be replaced with a different character or a different sort of character entirely without incident.

I'll agree with Faunus on a major point. Palpatine's strongest moments have been those where he hasn't obliterated a fleet of ships or hurled automobile-sized Senate pods or participated in rituals that caused changes in the weather and so on. His strongest moments, indeed, have largely been speaking scenes and the reactions of him through other characters.

But here's where I disagree with Tangible. The purpose of Palpatine is to represent the ultimate evil. Villainy at its finest. He conquered the galaxy and destroyed the Jedi in ways that no other collection of Sith have ever done. Why? Logic dictates that he was vastly superior in some fashion. Rather than assert that he is more powerful than all of them or smarter than all of them (which limits the previous Sith), it should be a collection of characteristics; he was the perfect combination of dark side traits. Not necessarily better than every one in all categories, but the only one amongst them to have the proper amount of traits all around that enabled him to succeed where the rest did not.

Palpatine is supposed to represent power in itself. He doesn't need to demonstrate vast power. He doesn't have to crush Vader for the audience to be aware that he's more powerful; the reaction of powerful men like Vader and Dooku is enough to make it quite clear:

He could if he wanted to.

But the idea that he is weaker and relies solely on mindgames? It's not possible.

Originally posted by Final Blaxican
Delete all Post RotJ EU minus the Jedi Academy trilogy, the Jedi Knight series (Kyle Katarn games), and most of Zahn's work, as Mara Jade and Palleon are the two greatest EU creations of all time. However edit Thrawn so that he's in his place, an extremely capable military tactician, nothing more nothing less. No political skill that "rivals Palpatines".

... And I guess you can keep the Tales series and the Han Solo and Lando Calrissian adventures series.

Honestly, I'd probably clean the entire slate and start from scratch, taking previously existing ideas if they presented themselves fine. And most of Zahn's work doesn't impress me. Thrawn, Pellaeon, and Mara? Absolutely. But I've seen other authors write the latter two even better than him.

My two cents (I'll try to keep it short). Most of my gripe is with the post ROTJ era. I'd rewrite or scrap everything post Courtship of Princess Leia, I felt stories in this era began to loose the sense of discovery and adventure of the OT, after this novel.

That means no Mara and Luke hooking up, although Mara would be kept. Less emphasis on the raw power of Luke and co.

I'd rewrite the X wing books like journals with no specific main cast but I'd do it in 3rd person. Tragedy would be easier to write here, not enough tragedy in SW. I'd keep the Katarn Jaden Korr stuff though, those were solid adventure tales.

Boba Fett dies in the Sarlacc Pit and the Mandos wouldn't exist after the CW. No Emperor resurrection - of course - either.

I'd make a Jedi Dooku novel in place of a Bane novel. I read this bit of story about Dooku's Jedi holocron entry, and he has far more depth to him than Bane (who's getting needless airtime with those stories).

Less Jedi vs Sith wars. Also less Sith like Malak and more Sith like Sion or Traya. I'd rewrite the Ulic era Kotor comics, (no Sith magic and more emphasis on the political figures of the time).

Originally posted by Gideon
I've spent the past thirty minutes trying to put my words into something cogent. I'm getting impatient, though, so I'll just let them fly.

Palpatine really is the ultimate villain of the saga. There can be no question; without him, you don't have a story. People think I'm being rather assertive when it comes to him, but it's true. He's more important than Ragnos, than Revan, than Bane. There are only two characters that I can think of who rival him in terms of importance and those would be Anakin and Luke Skywalker. No one else is really essential to the story at all and can be replaced with a different character or a different sort of character entirely without incident.

I'll agree with Faunus on a major point. Palpatine's strongest moments have been those where he hasn't obliterated a fleet of ships or hurled automobile-sized Senate pods or participated in rituals that caused changes in the weather and so on. His strongest moments, indeed, have largely been speaking scenes and the reactions of him through other characters.

But here's where I disagree with Tangible. The purpose of Palpatine is to represent the ultimate evil. Villainy at its finest. He conquered the galaxy and destroyed the Jedi in ways that no other collection of Sith have ever done. Why? Logic dictates that he was vastly superior in some fashion. Rather than assert that he is more powerful than all of them or smarter than all of them (which limits the previous Sith), it should be a collection of characteristics; he was the perfect combination of dark side traits. Not necessarily better than every one in all categories, but the only one amongst them to have the proper amount of traits all around that enabled him to succeed where the rest did not.

Palpatine is supposed to represent power in itself. He doesn't need to demonstrate vast power. He doesn't have to crush Vader for the audience to be aware that he's more powerful; the reaction of powerful men like Vader and Dooku is enough to make it quite clear:

He could if he wanted to.

But the idea that he is weaker and relies solely on mindgames? It's not possible. It's not impossible either. In fact, being the weakest of all his predecessors and still managing to do what they couldn't--not through martial might but rather through his ability to manipulate and deceive... that makes him great in my books. The greatest, really. Doesn't mean he HAS to have the most power. My preference. I like the mystery of the ancients, like Ragnos. I like the idea that ever since the Sith emerged in the Great Hyperspace War that the Force has been... withdrawing from everybody. Palpatine's death ends the Sith and opens up a well of power for the NJO. I like that idea.

Oh and Allankles' ideas---*thumbs up*

Originally posted by Gideon
But the idea that he is weaker and relies solely on mindgames? It's not possible. Definitely my fault for failing to clarify on this.

The way I see the character - or rather, want the character to be seen - is as someone who is always in complete control of everyone and everything; this is one area where I feel that some of established canon has painted a reasonably agreeable picture. This to me is his single greatest strength, the one quality that by its own merit separates him from essentially every other popular villain in modern culture.

Essentially, his absolute mastery of psychology on both a personal and galactic scale is easily his most defining trait. The very existence of a scene in which he gets locked into combat with what should be an entity he has no chance against in an actual fight takes away from that. His battles should be won through the power of the mind and his unmatched devotion to the dark side, not disappointing feats of telekinesis and uninspired lightsaber duels.

This brings me back to TDK's Joker. His greatest assets are his mind and his unflinching devotion to what he believes to be his sole reason for existing; introducing chaos and upsetting established order. This is never questioned. But we still know that for all his cunning and derision for the mockery of ethics that is law, he is still dangerous, and not just in a behind-the-scenes respect. We see the Batman thrash him in a beating that would leave most senseless or dead, and the Joker simply laughs at him. This lends even more power to a two-minute sequence in the final act of the movie in which the Joker, with the brief assistance of a couple of dogs, viciously attacks and indeed gains the upper hand on the vastly stronger and better trained Dark Knight. To me, those scenes grouped together create one of the most powerful depictions of an archrivalry in all of fiction. That's how I would love to see Sidious. I want to be fully aware of the fact that, "realistically," he should face certain death in any physical battle with Yoda, but he still manages not only to survive, but to win on a plane that no competition of mere muscle could ever reach.

All that said, I wouldn't want Palpatine to be a weakling. As I've already pointed out, he's the only one in the mythos to make lightning actually seem badass; he should be the only one who can use it, and it would make him that much more dangerous. I'd also want to see him use the Force in more, well, insidious ways. One of my favorite scenes in RotS is the one in which Anakin is waiting in the Council chambers, fighting within himself to decide to what to do, when we hear Palpatine's voice - subtle, soft, and yet immensely powerful - speak to him from across the city, playing on his fears. Again, of course, Sithisis was tremendously well executed, both structurally and artistically, and one of its greatest strengths was that it depicted Sidious using his power to affect peoples' minds directly, as with the RotS scene; Anakin is driven into a battle rage, even Yoda is given pause by what appears to be the sheer surge in darkness, and we see crowds of young Jedi screaming and fleeing from some spectre in the Temple, and the best part is that it's happening across the galaxy. He owns them, regardless of where they are, and I'd live to see that reflected in the powers he employs on a personal level.

Lightning + Telepathy = Win.

And I don't ever want to see him in a lightsaber duel. Ever.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
It's not impossible either.

Well...



This is where you lose me.

Based on the movies and EU supplements, Palpatine relied on both the Force and political manipulation to secure power. The idea that he wasn't heavily relying on the Force to facilitate his conquest is simply a falsehood; he was using the Force to perform three vital tasks: a.) look into the future to predict the outcome of various events, b.) to utilize Quey'tek to shield him from the Jedi, c.) to blunt Jedi sensitivity on a galactic scale to prevent them from noticing the various shifts in power.

Palpatine could not have achieved what he did if not for a mastery of the Force that his predecessors simply did not have. I can understand if, perhaps, you mean that Palpatine isn't as skilled as a combatant or the more martial uses of the Force, but when it comes to utilizing the Force as a means of subtlelty, deception, and prolonging the weaknesses of his adversaries, no Sith was (nor should be, logically) Palpatine's equal.

Were it your way, the Ancient Sith would be powerful but inept and Palpatine shrewd yet frail, which undermines them both and makes it impossible for the Sith to achieve success at all.



He was. And rightfully so. But not simply because of intellect.



Perhaps not in terms of combat, but he clearly needs to possess a mastery of the Force in areas that the Ancients did not.



Which I respect. But as it is, it's simply impossible. With a little tweaking, it can be arranged to fit the story.



Superior power relative to Palpatine does not increase their mystery nor does inferior power relative to Palpatine detract from it.



Again, you lose me. Why would Palpatine's death and the destruction of the Sith open up a well of power if he is so weak?

Originally posted by Allankles
My two cents (I'll try to keep it short).

You should go in-depth. This has been a fantastic discussion.



The post-RotJ era has a couple of gems amongst a field of stones. The most insidious problem is the latent minimalism perpetuated by the majority of the authors: Zahn, Stackpole, Traviss, et cetera. Star Wars takes place across an entire galaxy; the idea that the Empire could maintain control with only 25,000 Star Destroyers is absurd. The idea that 200 out of date dreadnaughts were enough to tip the scales in Grand Admiral Thrawn's favor is even more stupid. The Empire should field millions upon millions of ships and billions upon billions of soldiers. The Rebel Alliance, too, would have to be larger and better equipped if they had a prayer of taking on the Empire even with guerilla tactics.


Edit: Faunus, I can sympathize and understand a great deal of what you said, but the whole "faces death versus Yoda" still makes no sense. Why? Because he's smart, so he must be physically vulnerable? Then the reverse would have to apply to wise old Yoda, making him rather stupid. The villain isn't supposed to be the underdog. He's supposed to be the guy who is going to win until the very last second.

Originally posted by Gideon
Well... Mmm, I think you forgot your own thread. If I had it my way... Palpatine wouldn't be using the Force to shield his identity and presence, the Jedi would just suck. The Ancients would be a barely touched upon subject, the GHW mentioned and discussed somewhat, but as for combat details of the individuals... canon would call them the best, but we just don't know how. It would prevent them from our Vs. but I'm fine with that.


And my way would fit the prophecy a tad more than what we have. Destruction of the Sith would "balance" the Force. Balance in Star Wars being a return to the norm--ultra powerful Light sided Jedi. The ongoing existence of the Sith in the galaxy had been... sucking the Force away from the contact of individuals, hindering their abilities and magnitude to which they're performed. Their death opens the Force up again, per se. I.e. The longer the Sith exist in (and eventually RULE) the galaxy, the less and less powerful its practitioners become, light or dark.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Mmm, I think you forgot your own thread.

I didn't. Just wondering how you'd explain much of this and why you'd declaw the villain.

But it's your opinion and I completely respect that; I just personally see no sense in it. But I did like your explanation for the Sith draining away the power of the Force. That was pretty damn interesting.

Edit: By the way, the thread says "redesign the EU", which doesn't include the movies. Even in our wildest dreams, I don't think Lucas would give us permission to scrap his brainchildren. Just the material surrounding it.

Originally posted by Gideon
The post-RotJ era has a couple of gems amongst a field of stones.

I agree. Stuff like I Jedi, Courtship of Princess Leia, Truce at Bakura (I thought was decent as an intro novel immediately following ROTJ).

Parts of Dark Force Rising were decent. Even post OT hero-parenthood had its share of decent novels like Traitor, and I liked some of the Force Heretic trilogy for what it tried to do with Tahiri.

The NJO produced some interesting characters like Nom Anor and Vergere that I would have to fit in somewhere, in a revision.

I'm fairly certain I specified twice that I didn't intend for him to be "weak." I put down several thousand characters about how his advantages in the mind should be exemplified by having him be less of an outright physical threat, yet still have a few tricks up his sleeve if push came to shove (lightning, telepathy). This puts more emphasis on Darth Vader as an extension of his will.

I did, however, gloss over Yoda. Simply put, I'd have him be, as a martial user of the Force, as good as they get. Essentially unmatched power, nearly a millenium to hone it. He wouldn't use a saber either, at least not for the most part, because he simply doesn't need it. He's still the wise one, but that fatal arrogance that the PT almost managed to capture leads him to underestimate Palpatine.

I would actually redo his entire battle with Palpatine as some massive chase ending in some sort of brief confrontation (which Yoda flees from for one reason or another), with the Sith subtly messing with him the entire way. Think back to when Grievous goes after Palpatine in the CWC. Sounds strange, but it could be both a tense character/relationship moment and an opportunity to show how badass Yoda is (because he wouldn't have had a movie fight until that point).

Transformers did that. Prime looked like a *****, no one was happy.

And again, Palpatine's victory needn't be purely physical. I think taking over the galaxy sort of counts as a "win."

Nom Anor and Vergere are phenomenal characters, as are Pellaeon, Mara Jade, Lumiya, and Turr Phennir. I'd have to keep those, though I'd apply them a little differently.

Kyp Durron should just... not exist.

And I'm alright with the inclusion of Nom Anor, provided it's done in a way that allows for a brief glimpse at the Yuuzhan Vong without leading to the minor fiasco that was the NJO series.

Originally posted by Publius II
I'm fairly certain I specified twice that I didn't intend for him to be "weak." I put down several thousand characters about how his advantages in the mind should be exemplified by having him be less of an outright physical threat, yet still have a few tricks up his sleeve if push came to shove (lightning, telepathy). This puts more emphasis on Darth Vader as an extension of his will.

I'm fairly certain I said "vulnerable", not "weak." And I'm equally certain that there is a difference.



And in order for his complacency and arrogance to undo him, his 'wisdom' would have to be relatively limited.



I can understand this. Given Yoda's pissed off state and the fact that Palpatine needn't be the end all be all in terms of martial prowess, I could see him fighting a retreating battle -- but taunting Yoda the entire time. Or that and he's called in support from clones or whatnot to aid him.



Yes, but in order to make Yoda's blatant superiority in combat credible, you'd have to make it clear that Palpatine pretty much played him quite easily in every other possible way and that it is the last resort of an individual has totally and irrevocably lost (a lot like Palpatine's attack on Luke Skywalker).

Originally posted by Publius II
Kyp Durron should just... not exist.

What do you mean?

His obscene level of power or his entire personality? Being the ideological counterpoint to Skywalker, which nearly resulted in a schism in the New Jedi Order, was interesting.



Big question: Vong or no Vong?

Originally posted by Gideon
I'm fairly certain I said "vulnerable", not "weak." And I'm equally certain that there is a difference.I interpreted it based on context, but alright.

His complacency and arrogance did undo him in modern canon, yet he's still widely revered.

And his wisdom make him complacent and -somewhat- arrogant. He thinks he's prepared for everything and eradicated or at least pinpointed just about every major threat, so he thinks he can afford to be a little complacent.

Both. I thought the underground "escape pod" was very cool in the CWC. I would picture Yoda basically mowing down everything in his path to get to Palpatine, while the Emperor himself - escorted by squads of Red Guards, shocktroopers, and whatnot - would be led to that "pod," foiling some of Yoda's attempts at reaching him through subtle use of the Force (sealing off doors and frying circuitry, etc.). He needn't even come face-to-face with the Jedi until the very, very end.

And? He'd just have destroyed the Jedi Order, converted the Chosen One, and taken over the Republic right under Yoda's nose. I think establishing that Yoda had been completely deceived and blindsided would be the easiest part of it.

Of course, it would also have to be clear that despite his control and quiet interference, Palpatine is very much in danger; hence an entire (well-executed and still in-character) sequence featuring Yoda breaking shit.

Originally posted by Gideon
What do you mean?

His obscene level of power or his entire personality? Being the ideological counterpoint to Skywalker, which nearly resulted in a schism in the New Jedi Order, was interesting.Obscene level of power. There's simply too many angry characters with oceans of Force-strength. Several prominent Skywalkers, Starkiller, and Durron, all within fifty or so years of each other?

It's a little hard to swallow.

Some Vong. Vergere and Nom Anor allow for an interesting dynamic with the existing cast, and the only way for them to work is acknowledge that the Vong exist. But that's where I would end it; for one reason or another, they never reach deep into the galaxy, there's never a massive war.

I definitely wouldn't ever let yoda have a lightsaber he should just use the force and nothing else.

also I'd make the PT actually I dunno coincide with stuff mentioned in th OT like leia actually knowing her real mother and having anakin actually be the greatest pilot in the galaxy.

Well, a lot of EU does make Anakin out to be the greatest pilot in the galaxy. That's one of many things that the CWC did very well.

i thought it was canon that seasee was a better pilot than anakin?

I could agree with all of that, Faunus. But as I said, when it came to using the Force for subtlety, deception, and prolonging enemy weakness, Palpatine would have to be the pinnacle of the Sith.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
It's not impossible either. In fact, being the weakest of all his predecessors and still managing to do what they couldn't--not through martial might but rather through his ability to manipulate and deceive... that makes him great in my books. The greatest, really. Doesn't mean he HAS to have the most power. My preference. I like the mystery of the ancients, like Ragnos. I like the idea that ever since the Sith emerged in the Great Hyperspace War that the Force has been... withdrawing from everybody. Palpatine's death ends the Sith and opens up a well of power for the NJO. I like that idea.

Oh and Allankles' ideas---*thumbs up*

See, this is why I would think they need to make Sidious the most powerful. BECAUSE he was the most powerful, he succeeded where everyone else has failed. He alone was born with enough power to complete the destruction of the Jedi. He alone tipped the force in favor of the dark side. He alone confused the Jedi. I think it's all warranted but that's just my opinion.

I understand where Faunus and Tangible are coming from; Palpatine need not be the ultimate Sith in regards to martial prowess; he was more of a scholar and a schemer than a warrior. But there should be certain advantages relative to Force use that he has over other Sith and Jedi.

Originally posted by Gideon
I understand where Faunus and Tangible are coming from; Palpatine need not be the ultimate Sith in regards to martial prowess; he was more of a scholar and a schemer than a warrior. But there should be certain advantages relative to Force use that he has over other Sith and Jedi.

I also understand but I maintain that he couldn't have done what he'd done without being the absolute master of the darkside and being the most powerful sith lord. As you've said, he had the mastery that no other sith had, which allowed him to cloud the minds of the jedi and unbalance the force.

I would make revan,traya and nihilus as weak as ****, so weak that r2d2 could easily kill them with his electric zapper.

Originally posted by Publius II
Oh, and Ahsoka doesn't exist. That's one of my biggest gripes with TCW.

yeah seriously wtf. the only PADAWAN to be able to contend with Grevious and beat him.. kind of.


Also.. I want to see Yoda go darkside. for fun at least.. or teach starkiller. They are in the same time period also. And I want yoda to live to see Luke's Academy and the defeat of Darth Krayt.

Originally posted by Publius II
Oh, and Ahsoka doesn't exist. That's one of my biggest gripes with TCW.

yeah seriously wtf. the only PADAWAN to be able to contend with Grevious and beat him.. kind of.




Also.. I want to see Yoda go darkside. for fun at least.. or teach starkiller. They are in the same time period also. And I want yoda to live to see Luke's Academy and the defeat of Darth Krayt.

And I really want to see Yoda getting pissed cuz he is the embodiment of the perfect Jedi and since no one is perfect, I wanted to see him get pissed and use force lightning or something. Or a "Yoda scream". or perhaps demonstrate some uber coolness that would pwn palpy at that last fight.

and Palpy is too overpowered. He shouldn't be that powerful, just the greatest because he took over the galaxy. He was more like a smart, scheming character that uses political manipulation to suit his needs. and Vader should reach his full potential. Starkiller survives their conflict and Yoda trains him. He kinda becomes an Obi-Wan to Luke and they teach Luke together after Obi-Wan's death after episode 4.

Luke has this final confrontation with Vader, and utterly gets pwned. Palpy gets pissed and tortures Luke like in episode 6. Same thing except Vader somehow uses his unlimited force reserves and finally kills palpatine off and gets to be sith lord.

He is unstable because of his love for Luke, but he is so far in the dark side it is hard for him to come back. Luke and Starkiller together defeats Vader and convinces him to reject the Dark side. Meanwhile Krayt is gathering his order of crapsith.

There aren't so many generations between Ben skywalker and Cade skywalker. like 1 generation of unknown ppl. then goes to Cade. so Ben would be Cade's grandfather.

Krayt attacks the Jedi with his sith army, and manages to kill kol skywalker. Cade demonstrates his remarkable ability to bring people from the dead, which Anakin realizes this was the power he was looking for the whole time. anyways.. too bad cuz Padme died a looong time ago.

Also, Anakin Solo shouldn't have died. xD

As for the Kotor era...

More Cutscenes showing what Revan, Malak, Bastila, Nihilus, Sion, Kreia, Exile can do. in other words, more combat cut scenes. and no freaking early releases for christmas or any of that crap.
SWBF3 should come out with Kotor era (not kotor era mod although that is a pretty nice mod..) needs more locations and powers like force server, death field, better saber system, different classes. U kno how in the original swbf2 (not bfx mod) the classes all have the same weapons. Ex: Imperial engineer and republic engineer, or rebel engineer all have the shotgun, health&ammo, fusion cutter etc. They should be different.

crap why am I talking about swbf2.. this was about EU. oops sry about that.

ok I'm kinda done w/ my rant. lol


oh yeah. more backstory on people like marka ragnos, and naga sadow and those kidna people. maybe a Kotor 3 for them...


EDIT: sry for double post. something's wrong w/ my internet or maybe i'm clicking too many times...

Originally posted by Gideon
I could agree with all of that, Faunus. But as I said, when it came to using the Force for subtlety, deception, and prolonging enemy weakness, Palpatine would have to be the pinnacle of the Sith. This is a given.

No Fett after Sarlacc.

No Karen Traviss shit novels.

No Ashoka.

Obi-Wan doesn't die in such a shitty way.

Grievous is as badass as portrayed in the CW.

Less action for Ventress.

KOTOR (game) novel. Revan and the rest of his crap to be proved.

No KOTOR 2. Or at least, not in the way it was made.

No Palpatine resurrecting crap.

The Alliance did not win that easily. It's just ridiculous.

A vastly improved Starkiller character... Or not, since I've not read the novel.

Bane's trilogy stays, though. It's decent.

Obi-Wan doesn't die in such a shitty way?

Wut?

Yeah. In my Universe, Obi-Wan doesn't die in such a shitty way.

Wow Gideon! Your thread has everyone forgetting about the vs forums.

I'd also make it so Fett never went into the sarlacc but instead stayed alive for awhile but everything Karen traviss made him to be WOULD NEVER happen. Fett would stay being a cold hearted bounty hunter.

the force unleashed would have never happened.

no sith after ROTJ and i wouldn't make it so there was galaxy threat after galaxy threat after galaxy threat. i mean seriously in 40 years how many different plots are there with "the fate of the galaxy" at stake?

and only qui-gon, ben, yoda, and whoever else learned how to come back from the force would be able to since it was supposed to be something no one knew how to do until qui-gon.

More in depth with characters like Darth Maul, Vergere.

Let Bane flow walk and have a sabaac game against Han Solo and Lando Calrissian.

Develop KotOR characters, Revan and Traya mainly.


About it.

Originally posted by xxxpoppunker182

and only qui-gon, ben, yoda, and whoever else learned how to come back from the force would be able to since it was supposed to be something no one knew how to do until qui-gon.
Ones i can think off at the moment are,
Qui-Gon Jin
Obi-Wan Kenobi
Yoda
Anakin Skywalker.
Mara Jade.
^^
Shouldn't have died so stupidly.
And how do they join the Force and re-appear as Force Ghosts anyway?
Originally posted by xxxpoppunker182

the force unleashed would have never happened.
Disagree I'm afraid I believe it should stay

Originally posted by mattatom

Ones i can think off at the moment are,
Qui-Gon Jin
Obi-Wan Kenobi
Yoda
Anakin Skywalker.
Mara Jade.
^^
Shouldn't have died so stupidly.
And how do they join the Force and re-appear as Force Ghosts anyway?
What was wrong with Yoda's death? He was the one character from the movies and one of the few Jedi we see die naturally of old age instead of being killed by the Sith.

As for the reason they appear as ghosts: something about being in tune with the Living Force--being able to comply with the Force's will at that moment, not focusing on the future and destiny. Or something.

Woops sorry about that Lucien I meant to just imply that Mara shouldn't of died like she did, i know there needed to be a sacrifice but still.

She was a great character who I admired.

I would have to agree about Yoda's death however. Wasn't a scene I like watching :'( I miss him. but I can't think of any other Jedi that has died of natural causes.

Originally posted by mattatom
Woops sorry about that Lucien I meant to just imply that Mara shouldn't of died like she did, i know there needed to be a sacrifice but still.

She was a great character who I admired.


You can blame Karen Traviss for Mara's death. I didn't want her to die either, but as for the way she went out, well I thought it was a pretty good way for her to go out. She nearly killed Jacen to protect her son, despite being the less powerful of the two.

I meant the dart bit using an assassins weapon on an assassin oh the Irony.

It surprises me that more characters aren't killed off, given how many galactic level wars they get thrown in.

Originally posted by Allankles
It surprises me that more characters aren't killed off, given how many galactic level wars they get thrown in.

Good point but then GL said some character's aren't allowed to be killed off (Luke) and i assume most of the others are needed for plot devices. Once you kill a character off you lose the chance of reinventing them into a story which they may be needed in.

On Cartoon Network's Clone Wars, what the hell is up with "Cad Bane?" Real orginal don't you think?

you know how i would improve star wars in 3 easy steps?

1. Delete the EU with the exception some of the comics, the bane novels, and the kotor series.

2. Delete the prequel trilogy.

3. Delete TFU, or at least soften up marek. sure, its fun as hell to play an all powerful god, but it doesn't work with the canon.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Then what would be the explanation of why some can touch the force, and others can't?

Why does there even need to be one?

Short answer; there doesn't.

I'd much prefer it if no-one knew why only some individuals can touch the Force while so many others can't. Makes it more mysterious and magical that way.

This makes you cool.

Thank you very much.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
you know how i would improve star wars in 3 easy steps?

1. Delete the EU with the exception some of the comics, the bane novels, and the kotor series.

2. Delete the prequel trilogy.

3. Delete TFU, or at least soften up marek. sure, its fun as hell to play an all powerful god, but it doesn't work with the canon.


Weren't you dead or something?

He's Hindu. They don't die. EVAR!