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LOL. Maybe that person confused SC with C&C3 predator/scorpion/seeker spam? I wouldn't be surprised.

I've seen those comments from hundreds of people over years.

Haters are never logical. It's also irritating to see those who think the Tyrannids are ripping off the Zerg.

Blizzard's strengths are obsessive attention to detail, balance and perfectionism, which comes at a cost of enormous development times of course.

Relic have different priorities (like making DoW as violent as possible) but they are also into innovative game mechanics, like squad-type mechanics in an RTS, morale systemsm, suppression, cover etc. And I do have t say that at this point in the market, innovation is extremely important to the RTS genre, and I do find it a valid criticism of SCII if it is too similar to the original.

I preferred Dawn of War to Starcraft, but then it came out years later. Also, even when it only had four races, DoW was never as balanced as Starcraft. When it had 9 races- not a hopoe! But actually it mattered surprisngly little unless you are trying to make an e-spotrt out of it (an area where Starcraft will always dominate). I am not saying a game does not need balance, but I AM saying that there's a limit to how much it needs to be fun. DoW was, by the end of its cycle at Soulstorm, balanced enough. That's all you need. Meanwhile, DoW has given me one of the best money spent to time enjoyed ratios I have ever, ever had, and to me that meant Relic was proving a point.

I actually have worries for SCII because I am not sure what is distinctive about it yet and I am unsure that a straight sequel is really what I want. I do want to hear more about their single player mode. DoWII in comparison is looking far more innovative- and as I say, these innovations are an important factor and I feel it is a mistake to dismiss the importance of such innovation.

But as I have said in the DoWII thread, I worry about DoWII for its steep learning curve putting off the casual gamers it purports to want to bring into a dying genre, the limited maps on release (I understand why, but that's stll a negative) and also criticism of its single player mode is alarming. Still, if their downloadable content plans go ahead well, that could make up a LOT of ground.

They've BOTH gone down the road of a campaign for only one race at first, it is worth noting...


In the end, though, I'm definitely going to buy SCII as the original was awesome and Blizzard have earned my faith. And here's the best news- as SCII is very much looking a traditional RTS, whilst DoWII- sucessfully or otherwise, time will tell- is trying something new... it means that the two games are distinctive enough for playing and enjoying both to be extremely viable.

I now own DoWII; I'll let people know my thoughts. My instincts right now? I really like DoW II's innovations, I've come to greatly appreciate them over the beta. I am sure many others will not like them. The AI needs a lot of work (which they have in fact promised they will do). I also think SCII will be better balanced.

But DoW II, from what I can tell right now, gets my vote. We'll see how SCII performs.

I liked the first DOW more than I did Starcraft. But DOWII felt like a step backwards to me in a lot of ways. Obvious innovation aside, I just don't think it's quite as fun or satisfying, at least in multiplayer, as the first.

With single player Blizzard simply tells better stories then pretty much any other RTS maker and that's a big reason why I play through an RTS game. First DOW was fun but there never was a particularly interesting plot. Where as SC has some great plot twists and memorable characters that kept me going - I wanted to see what would happen next. And since DOWII is taking the approach of the DOW expansion packs, which pretty much do away with all story telling and just tell you 'hey go conquer this planet because you want it' I doubt I'll enjoy DOWII's campaign as much as SCII's.

Gonna just come down to what you want. Want something new DOWII will be your thing, if you just want more SC with better graphics and new units, SCII will be your bag. In the end I'll probably get a lot more play time out of SCII then I will out of DOWII.

That's actually not what DoWII has done with its campaign, which is still not to say that the stpry is necessarily any good.

It hasn't? I watched one of the video reviews and it showed them at the planet scale map, and they said you can choose missions and what not. So there's an actual plot then?

Nah, it's not like Dark Crusade, it's not a metamap. You choose a mission to just give some choice about which assets ou are going to attack or defend at that stage in the plot, and they are interspersed with specific storyline misisons which are apparerently very good; it is about a Tyrannid invasion of the Blood Raven's recruiting worlds and it is fully storyline missioned and even, I understand, cutscened up.

But the criticism has been that the strategic choice missions between the storyline missions are too repetitive. We'll see.

Oh, I see.

That's reassuring.

But I very much agree that SC had a better single player plot than DoW.

I've just never been a fan of Dawn of War and yes i have played it, I'll stick with Blizzard for the strategy games.

After seeing how much Blizzard copied... I now tend to like Warhammer series better

we're not just talking similarity here... we're talking nigh-complete conceptual and game design ripoffs.. its disgusting

Yes I like SC.. but SC2 looks to me, like it wont be taking the crown off of SC anytime soon


I've never heard anyone (none of my friends at least) say that you can just mass 1 unit and win at starcraft.. cuz thats a pile of crap

eventually SC2 and DoW2 have their differences.. but the influence is clear and almost insulting

I like them all.. but c'mon.. its time for blizzard to grow a pair and design their own shit..

what are we left with in WoW?.. walrus people.. spider people.. bird people.. cow people.. ANCIENT cow people.... /sigh..

Yes because Games Workshop didn't rip off anybody when they created their series...no sir, totally original.

People tend to overlook that.

In any case, the amount of things Blizzard created in Starcraft without inspiration from GW is considerable.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Yes because Games Workshop didn't rip off anybody when they created their series...no sir, totally original. even tolkien ripped off of people.. thats besides the point..

who cares about elves and goblins and demons and all of that crap..

the point is.. when someone clearly denies you of their intellectual property, and you go ahead and made a blatant rip-off to spite them.. its not going to give the best impression

warcraft / warhammer

starcraft / warhammer 40k

These lil matchups speak worlds all by themselves.. but thats not really the only thing that gets me..

They constantly re-write their lore to ret-con
(belf paladins and dranei shamans)
"Oh mai god.. out of all the known universe.. we've "crash landed" on Azeroth.. what a co-inky dink..."
and
"Lawl...palliez dont get thur powerz from a god or anything.. its just this lil alien right here.. and now we shall drain all their powerz and make a mass army of insta-pallies.. /win"

I've also heard that War3 has nearly the exact story layout as Starcraft lol.. ugh

I like blizz just about the same as the next person.. but the only thing (and I'm only speaking from a concept standpoint.. as obviously the gameplay they make is always fun) they really can call their own is probably diablo, through and through

SCII isnt crap... and I'm definitely gonna try it

anyways, you'd probably rather gather opinions from people who actually PLAY these games... anyone who talks some mess about spamming 1 unit is an imbecile, and needs to go play some Halo Warz and keep away from the computer

They had better not mess up D3.. cuz thats all I really care about

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
even tolkien ripped off of people.. thats besides the point..

who cares about elves and goblins and demons and all of that crap..

the point is.. when someone clearly denies you of their intellectual property, and you go ahead and made a blatant rip-off to spite them.. its not going to give the best impression

warcraft / warhammer

starcraft / warhammer 40k

These lil matchups speak worlds all by themselves.. but thats not really the only thing that gets me..



Everyone friggan rips off things in one way or another and half of the time they call it inspiration.

Originally posted by Final Blaxican
I've mostly kept my opinion to myself on the matter for... well... since the two games have been released/announced to the public.

Come on now, seriously? It's the internet, if jackasses can freely rant wanna-be irrefutable shit, why can't you? Especially if there's sense within your rant. I don't understand the DoW/SC II hate either, all I understand that SC II is taking it's sweet ass time... So just vent when you feel like it man, someone will read it.

I partly agree with SaTsuJiN. I don't like(never did) the direction the lore took in WoW; it feels uninspired as hell right now.

Starcraft, on the other hand, feels so much more inspired and interesting right now(it always was, but more than ever atm.)