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No holds barred death match.

Banner has just become Hulk at onset of confrontation after Raoh called him a b*tch and says "I could care less if I wouldn't like you when you're angry, b*tch!!!".

Who would win?

Okay whats with always adding Raoh? Why not add Toki instead since Raoh, and Ken would never fight together to begin with.

Anyways....Ken would be a hard enough person to catch for the Hulk but if he did hit Ken then he'd win. However adding two masters of the same style that inevitable involves blowing somebody up....Yea Hulk has no chance against the brothers.

Yes I said in the other thread Hulk could beat Ken..but he'd have to be able to hit him, and then I'm not even sure he'd kill him. But that's the thing he'd have to hit him. Kenshiro moved fast enough to appear behind Joker who teleported (And I don't mean the Bat-villain), and Kenshiro's fought people bigger then Hulk...not stronger but bigger like Devil Reverse, and the Fang Clan leader.

The thing is can Hulk's healing keep him from being blown up from the inside? Or can Ken find a point that nulls the Healing Factor? And No Ken doesn't have to be able to go thru Hulk's skin so even if Hulk is durable enough he can still hit the point.

There's a lot to bring to the fight with just Ken but adding Raoh they win.

Other opinions?

Why is an anime character fighting Hulk?

Genuine question. Just wanna confirm the forum's decline into hell.

-AC

Agree with Kento's assessment.

The Hulk is stronger than Ken (I think), but Ken
has other abilities, mystical martial arts powers
(I'm going by the original anime here, plus a
few comic issues, is all), so he can probably bring
Hulk down if he stays away from any of Hulk's
stronger punches.


And to Alpha Centauri, "Fist of the North Star" was
I believe a comic book series beofre becoming
an animated film.

So it can be included in this forum.

Besides, this comic book "Vs." forum can't all
be just Wolverine/Superman/Hulk/Thor/other
top famour characters versus each other.
Sooner or later these things will be discussed to
death.

Lighten up.

I am aware of that, but he is known primarily because of the series.

Dragonball Z was a comic first, but Goku Vs Hulk is still a shit thread.

-AC

Fist of the North Star is a Raijin Comic that became a cartoon/anime.

Just like Peanuts (Charlie Brown) is a comic strip that became a cartoon.

Just like Batman is a comic strip that became a cartoon and live action film.

Just like Dilbert is a comic strip that became a cartoon.

Just like Hulk is a comic strip that became a cartoon and live action film.

Any other opinions?

Cool post by my point was all the way over there and you missed it.

Never mind.

-AC

Does Kenshiro have the power of the naked dragon fist? Or does Raoh has the raining staff of divine balance?

The what, and the what?

Not to get into an exchange with you Alpha, but your point was noted.

The fact Kenshiro is best known for being a Japanese anime character doesn't change the fact he was based on a comic. Just like Sonic the Hedgehog as a video game character or Popeye as a cartoon, their origin is in comics. Mainstream misperception, bias, or in some cases, ignorance (to the origin of the character, not plain ignorance wholely) is not a viable objection.

As for Hulk Vs. Goku (or any other characters vs. Dragonball characters) fights being 'shit', that's moreso a result of resentment that Goku and DBZ characters are able to easily murder a majority of American comicdom's top characters than anything else. It's accepted that an alien raised in Kansas can sneeze away a solar system and fly at light speeds due to sunbathing, but an alien raised in Japan that can blow up a galaxy with a beam from his palm and turns into a giant monkey in moonlight is unacceptable? I think it's more that no one likes to see their home team get massacred.

Including Japanese comic book characters is not going to "confirm the forum's decline into hell", it's going to confirm a bit more diversity in characters used in battles.

Unless, of course, you advocate discrimination.

But anyway;

Anymore opinions?

I already said my opinion on this fight. However Manga vs Comics sometimes brings good fights. You just have to know both characters to actually see it.

Resentment? Not a bit.

Rather, it is more a result of the fact that DBZ characters are
crappy childish over-powered characters (though the cartoon
is still enjoyable for its fights and action).

I once wrote on that topic on another site, so I will just copy
what I wrote there:

----

Comparing Marvel with DragonBall Z is like
comparing Hamlet to Harry Potter, or
"Blade Runner" to "Plan 9 from Outerspace".

Marvel, whatever its faults, is an organic,
realistic world, created over 70 years and
involves characters who follow some sort of
logic. So even if they do fantasy things like
flying or controlling minds, they atleast
follow a certain comic-book logic, whereby
they can't just change the rules around
whenever it's convinient (so Prof. X can't
just one day get up and lift a car, just
because some idiot writer decided it).

Each Marvel character (and this applies to
DC and other major comic book publications)
has certain powers, a personality, a past
and a biography, and limits.

DragonBall Z however lacks any of this. They
live in a world lacking any rules. One day
they're living in a cutesy world of bunny-men
and talking lizards (DragonBall), then the
next monment it's a serious world of big
cities and war-planes (DragonBall Z).

The rules are constantly changing. One moment
Picollo is strong enough to destroy the moon
with one fingure, then the next moment he is
fighting for his life against Frieza who does
pretty much the same thing!

One day Vegeta is this super-warrior prince
who punches through mountains, and the next
he is getting his tail cut off by some samurai
sword!

There is no logic to the DBZ universe, not
even a pretence. It's basically whatever the
writers decide. And this is due to the fact that
DBZ is largely a children's cartoon, with a
(very) simple story-line, one-dimensional
characters, and lack of consistancy, to make
it easier for them to follow ("Don't worry
kids, the Dragon will wish back aaaalll the
momies and daddies killed by Majin-buu!".

And what is the result? The result is that
while Marvel doesn't need to depend on a
"stronger-villian-than-the-last" plot to keep
going, instead relying on good story-telling
and character-decisions (so not every villian
that the X-Men face is necessarily stronger than
the last; he can be weaker, but the situation
different); DBZ just makes each villian a lot
stronger than the last, then having Goku get
even stronger and defeat him. And the same
thing over and over again, until now Goku and
the others ahve reached ridiculous levels of
powers that frankly no longer make any sense
anymore (why bother throwing punches when you
can just destroy the galaxy your opponent is
in?).

I really liked DB and DBZ, after the Frieza
sage (or to a lesser extent the Cell one), it
got really silly, with the characters being too
damned strong to be worth rooting for.

Bottom line: Goku can beat almost anybody in
Marvel or DC, but then again I too can right
now create a hero can can defeat them as well
(hmmm, let's see? I'll call him "Cosine" and
he is able to move 1,000,000 times the speed of
light, and can lift 100 billion tons, and every
time he punches someone, or is punched by
someone, his powers increase ten times! There, I
just created a character who can beat all of
Marvel!? And he makes about as much sense as
Goku!).

----

"Fist of the North Star" is much better developed
character-wise than DragonBall. So more suitable
for battling american comic characters.

And yes, some american characters are over-powered,
such as this Superman Prime, but never to the level
of the DBZ characters. Furthermore, Marvel and DC
heros and villians live in universes that have god-like
cosmic beings like Galactus and Spectre, and for these
characters it is okay for them to be super-mighty, since
they are like the gods of the Marvel and DC universe.

ONe more point, even if some Marvel or DC figures
are occasionally made super-powerful, atleast they
still have a three-dimensional personality, and biography
and history. Even Goku, the most developed DragonBall
character, is one-dimensional compared to even some
minor Marvel and DC characters.

DBZ characters are not overpowered. Anybody from Wonder Woman up in strength can defeat them. Heck there are probably people weaker then WW would could beat them.

Ofcourse they are. Even monir figures have the power to
destroy a whole planet with one blast. Even Silver Surfer
can't do that.

Yea but they ain't got the speed, and power physically of most heroes up in WW caliber. And they can be cut, and are able to get sick, and stuff.

I can respect that.

It is a matter of opinion and perspective. I don't find DBZ any more ridiculous than Golden Era DC comics and some of their current characters. Superman juggled planets? A being the size of a man juggling planets (never explaining how somehow the atmosphere of the planets became tangible for Supes to grasp)? The Flash? Krypto the Super Dog? Bat Shark Repellent? There are degrees of fiction, but lack of consistency is abundant in many places external to the Dragon Ball Universe. I mean, come on now, Batman made guest spots on Scooby Doo. Why judge DBZ so harshly?

And Krillin, Yamcha, Chatzu, Yajorobi, etc. can't blow up planets. I think the 'weakest' DBZ character with planet busting capabilities is Tien, and he's the strongest human fighter (unless you count Uub, who is Kid Buu reincarnated, as human, then he'd be the strongest human).

Wait, didn't Master Roshi (?) blow up the moon in the
older DragonBall series?

And didn't Piccolo do the same (how? Who know) when
he was beginning to tutor Gohan?

Are you saying that late-DBZ Krillin isn't stronger than
early DBZ Piccolo, or DB Master Roshi?


As for Golden Age comics, these were early, and the
characters, as well as the whole concept of comic book
super-heroes, were still being developed.

But as I said, even if some Marvel and DC characters do
ridiculously strong things, these are rare, and are due
to the comics' writers, who unlike with DBZ change very
frequently.

Furthermore, as I said in my copied post, Marvel and DC
comics don't revolve around the same tired plot of yet
another even stronger villian coming along, beating everyone
up, then Goku (usually) discovers yet another level to
his strength (just how many super-Saiyan levels are there
now? 5? 10?), and beating the villian. And on and on and on.

Vegeta, and Buu, and Cell only people who blew up a planet. Freeza couldn't blow up a planet, and he was way stronger then Vegeta. So its all on the attack.

I feel you man.

Thing is, everytime a global threat approaches DC Earth, Supes is usually the last line of defense as Goku is, DC just happens to have more storylines in-between their escalating global threat villains to make it seem more gradual.

Like I said, it's all perspective. You definitely have a right to your opinion and I respect that.

As for Krillin, his kamehameha wave is not as powerful as a young master Roshi or Piccolo's super cannon. He could probably level a mountain, but he's no planet buster. His strongest attack was always his "destructo disc" attack, that's what he was most proficient with.

Kento,

So Frieza didn't blow up the Saiyan homeworld then?

And Master Roshi and piccolo didn't blow up the moon?

Frieza blew up the planet Vegeta with his finger. And yes, both Master Roshi and Piccolo blew up the moon.

Anyways, the reason why DBZ characters are banned from this forum is because it starts fights between members and causes many sexual slurs...sometimes.

They did. Krillin can't. Vegeta sends people to the 5th dimension with his attacks in DBZ (he's stated such, so maybe the DBZ dimension is above the 5th dimension) and destroys planets. Frieza could generate moon sized energy blasts.

^^; Oh yea Vegeta. But it still depends on the attack that is used. I mean he didn't blow up Namek or Earth.

And like I said. They can only do it by using their ki. They aren't as strong pyshically or as fast (as a few) of most top tier DC, and Marvel super heroes. Plus Imperiex or whatever drone was able to destroy planets with blast also weren't they?

Originally posted by illadelph12
I feel you man.

Thing is, everytime a global threat approaches DC Earth, Supes is usually the last line of defense as Goku is, DC just happens to have more storylines in-between their escalating global threat villains to make it seem more gradual.

Like I said, it's all perspective. You definitely have a right to your opinion and I respect that.


I disagree. Look at Marvel and their Onslaught series, or the
Infinity Gauntlet series, or that "heart of the Universe". These
were the very ultimate threats, yet afterwards Marvel went
back to normal villians. They just didn't keep getting stronger
and stronger the villians.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Vegeta sends people to the 5th dimension with his attacks in DBZ (he's stated such, so maybe the DBZ dimension is above the 5th dimension) That's horrible dubbing. And Krillin is the strongest human. It says so in the manga.

Anyways, we need to stop talking about DB/Z and talk about this fight.

Originally posted by illadelph12
They did. Krillin can't. Vegeta sends people to the 5th dimension with his attacks in DBZ (he's stated such, so maybe the DBZ dimension is above the 5th dimension) and destroys planets. Frieza could generate moon sized energy blasts.

Okay that's just a dub line...They die when he kills them. Just like Radditz moving the speed of light cause he dodged Special Beam Cannon, and Gokou's father being a genius.

Originally posted by The Flash
Anyways, we need to stop talking about DB/Z and talk about this fight.


Agreed.

Ken wins unless hits good by Hulk.

Originally posted by The Flash
That's horrible dubbing. And Krillin is the strongest human. It says so in the manga.

Anyways, we need to stop talking about DB/Z and talk about this fight.

Actually Tien is the strongest, and apparently the bravest human. I mean Tien kept 2nd form Cell down with his Tribeam.

The Tri Beam multiples Tien's power. And Cell was only getting pushed back from the attack, it wasn't hurting him. Also, Krillin stood up against Super Buu. He's the strongest human character because it said so in the manga when Yamcha said it at the end of the series and he knows how powerful both Krillin and Tien are.

He held back Cell...when most people who blast people they don't even notice they get hit. That's say something. And Tien also blocked a blast from Buu who had absorbed Gotenks, and Piccolo. He was stronger then Super Buu who Krillen lasted a few seconds against.

And Tien devotes himself to training that's why he's never around. During the Buu saga Krillen isn't really training much anymore.

As for the fight at hand..I think it's pretty much been decided with Ken winning unless Hulk can catch him, and get in a good hit.

The only reason Cell noticed it was because he was in a hole. Like I said, the Tri Beam multiples the user's power, making them very very powerful. Why do you think Tien was so weak after attacking Cell? He was ignorant enough to use his life chi. He did the same thing to Buu and used all his chi just to deflect one shot. What happened to him? Got his ass kicked in one weak kick.

It is never stated that Tien trains everyday in the DBZ series. Fact of the matter is, Yamcha knows how powerful both Tien and Krillin are and he specifically said that Krillin was the strongest human.

Everytime you see him he's training. He's never even around the rest of the group at all either. And during the whole Saiyan Saga it says that Tien is stronger. Even in the power levels. Go to any place that has power levels that stop with Freeza saga cause anything afterwards isn't stated, and Tien is shown stronger then Krillen. Krillen didn't do much but punch at Buu, and then get turned into chocolate. Tien lived after being kicked, just knocked out, and he didn't use all him power to block Buu's blast.

As for the hole thing, Broli just walked thru Gokou's blast like it was nothing, while Tien's knocked Cell back. Didn't hurt him but kept knocking him back down.

No. Everytime you see Tien we see him with Chatzou(sp) in the mountain region. That doesn't automatically mean that they were training. They might actually like living in the mountains.

And yes, in the beginning of the series Tien was more powerful, but that was just the beginning my friend. At the end Krillin is stronger. So what he got turned into chocolate? No human fighter can stop Buu and Tien was lucky because he used an attack that multiples his power and Buu was busy at the moment. He would've turned Tien into chocolate as well. If Tien didn't use his all his chi, then why did he not sense Buu's legs and was easily knocked out with a swift kick?

As for the Broly thing, movies are non-canon. TOEI makes them and not Akira Toriyama and TOEI have a fetish with Goku(See GT).

I know a movie reference wouldn't count but I like it anyways Tien was beating up on Future Trunks in movie 9, and Trunks had to go ssj to win.

And in the show.. Burta, and Jiece were stronger then Recoome, and Tien takes them on by themselves while Krillen got beat by recoome.

The Ginyu Force fight in King Kai's Planet was non-canon as well. But it was still cool.

Even if he had of sensed Buu's ki..do u think he would have been able to dodge? And what about when Krillen didn't join the fight against the androids 17, and 18 but stayed up on the cliff.

Originally posted by The Flash
The Ginyu Force fight in King Kai's Planet was non-canon as well. But it was still cool.

I so agree with you there.

I think Tien could've at least made a defense from that kick. And as for Krillin not fighting the androids, he clearly saw Vegeta get his ass whooped. Now if you saw a SSJ get his ass kicked, would you want to fight the person that opened the can of whoop ass?

Wasn't Tien distracted by Goku when Buu kicked him?

Was he?

Well didn't stop Picclo, and Tien from jumpin into the fight. And Buu would be alot faster then him. It be like if Recoome could have been able to put up a defense against Gokou.

Good point. But that kick wasn't going super fast or anything.

Well it was right behind Tien, and Buu was in half, and Tien didn't know about his regenative abilities, and it just popped up, and kicked him in the head.

Ouch!

Ouch??

That'll give a big headache. And I can't make an arguement about that. >_>

*laughs, and thinks* Um..I can't even make an arguement against it either or I'd help u cause I'm bored now.

Originally posted by Kento
The what, and the what? Which North Star have I been watching then?

Seriously though, mangas rarely have events that put things into perspective so they're fairly impossible to compare to marvel/dc/darkhorse/etc comics that give you an idea of how powerful people are. And not just compared to each other.

Well its shows how much Ken can take, and stuff. He can't be poisoned, when he gets angry he can focus his rage to make his body as hard as steel, he can take an arrow to the heart, and just be fine, can stop his blood from spewing out of him. And all this is just from the end of the second dvd box set out of three. Plus there is still Hokuto No ken 2 that I've hear a bit about.

And I'm not even gonna consider lookin to the anime movie cause its not canon but he does some awesome junk in that.

Knowledge of mangas is also limited in some places. Like this board.

Originally posted by illadelph12
As for Hulk Vs. Goku (or any other characters vs. Dragonball characters) fights being 'shit', that's moreso a result of resentment that Goku and DBZ characters are able to easily murder a majority of American comicdom's top characters than anything else. It's accepted that an alien raised in Kansas can sneeze away a solar system and fly at light speeds due to sunbathing, but an alien raised in Japan that can blow up a galaxy with a beam from his palm and turns into a giant monkey in moonlight is unacceptable? I think it's more that no one likes to see their home team get massacred.

Considering the fact that I'm not American, don't see how this would apply.

I'm a fan of Dragonball and anime, but putting them Vs Marvel is silly.

-AC

Hulk SMASH!!!

Hulk does have pressure points, but i don't see how their gonna get near him for obvious reasons.

May the gods damn me for distracting this thread away
from the topic, to DragonBall Z.


Ken still wins though.

HULK KILL!!!

Its not like normal pressure points. They like call it power points...its like points that are in the body of any livin creature.

And I like manga, and comics, and some people are able to put against each other from both series. But normal humans in in anime/manga are alot different then normal humans from comics..since Ken is just a normal human.

I'll go with Kenshiro on this one. He simply faster and deadlier than the Hulk. Ray can beat the Hulk. Ken has defeated enemies way larger and much more power ful magically and physically.

Not more powerful the Hulk..they can bend steel, and junk so they are pretty powerful but not more so then Hulk.

Ken still wins though.

How can anyone think Kenshiro will win. seriously Hulk has destroyed a asteroid twice the size of earth. His strength is powerful enough to hurt an adamantinun and has infinite strenght...people should not underestimate hulk.