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two of the most powerful people in marvel shown. and if thats not enough, we'll throw in classic molecule man.

well HOTU is suppose to equal TOAA and the great evil beast equals the presance but the thing is are they more powerful then a few hundred million multiverses combined?

well beyonder was said to be a millionx more powerful than the rest of the multiverse, but i dont beleive he was that much more powerful.

he was a more powerful then the multiverse combined multiplied a few hundred million times.

Originally posted by Mider
well HOTU is suppose to equal TOAA and the great evil beast equals the presance but the thing is are they more powerful then a few hundred million multiverses combined?

Wuts up Mider,

Actually the HOTU would be below TOAA, imo.

Atleza's domain survived which quickly means he did not absorb anything outside the realities swirling in the Cosmic Vortex. Even if he absorbed the multiverse(Multi-Eternity&Multi-Infinity)which he possibly did, the multiverse is still finite, outside the multiverse exists other realities but not many.
Which is why I believe Death survived.

Because Death has claim on even life-forces outside the multiverse.
And as long as there is life, any life...from mortal to cosmic, there is the concept of Death.

This is a cool scan:

Death was the only entity in existence that can sense the goals of a being known as the "Goddess"(Warlock's good half as opposed to Warlock's evil half the Magus)The Watcher could not

Chaos and Order neither

not even Eternity & Infinity themselves.

But Death was able.
It happened during the Infinity Crusade
http://img472.imageshack.us/img472/904/deathperceivesall1vp.th.jpg

Pre-Retcon Beyonder erased Multi-Death and then Recreated her, so that puts him above THOU.

Great Evil Beast is the Presence's equal, there's no doubt about that, so it's either equal to Beyonder or above him. One can only guess this one.

just because beyonder did one thing doesnt mean hes above the hotu, and do you think that thanos couldnt absorb more of the multiverse? and this hotu not absorbing the mutiverse is flawed, because thanos is like warlock, he can be outside time, and if he wanted to, he could go other places. and thanos already defeated LT, which is the only one in the multiverse, so he knew there wouldnt be any chalenges. he alsodidnt want to rule nothing.

he absorbed everything by mistake, cause he was so mad, he said warlock lived cause he was outside the MU and so was death, and then he had to remake it with out its former flaws and expelled his powers totally, thats why TOAA gave him those powers cause TOAA didnt wanna be the one to expell himself like thanos did, but still beyonder had more power then the multiverse combined times hundreds of millions of times.

yeah it was a mad attack, not a concentrated attack, big diff.

Classic Beyonder would take this ALONE:

1)Possess the power of the comic book writers- Stan Lee himself said that Classic Beyonder was supposed to represent the power the Writers had over the characters, the universes, the reality itself,etc. The ability to create and erase or change the "story" to any way he wants it to be.

2)Has millions of times the power of the Marvel Multiverse- Does this need any further explanations?

3)Has Infinite Reality Warping Ability- more flexible than IG or even HOTU.

4)Has the Absolute Ability to VIOLATE multiverses- thier laws, thier concepts, thier order....means NOTHING to Classic Beyonder. The Presence, TOAA.....there laws and power means nothing to Classic Beyonder, who is the embodyment of Absolute Power itself.




Guys be realistic. The Classic Beyonder could turn The Great Evil Beast into toilet paper if he wanted to. WHY? Because the Great Evil Beast is a factual entity that belongs to DC/Vertigo.....it is a SERIOUS construct of that entire existance.

Classic Beyonder exceeds existance, he exceeds seriousness. HE is like a child with the power to rewrite the comic book however the hell he wanted to. He can VIOLATE DC/Vertigo's existance the way he did Marvel's.

Classic Beyonder is the ultamate in uber cheesy powerful characters, and he is basically unbeatable...unless he WANTED to be beaten. He'd definately destroy, erase, duplicate, shit on, copy, eat, swallow, WHATEVER he wanted to do...to the GEB....and with Thanos with HOTU?????That's just overkill !

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Classic Beyonder would take this ALONE:

1)Possess the power of the comic book writers- Stan Lee himself said that Classic Beyonder was supposed to represent the power the Writers had over the characters, the universes, the reality itself,etc. The ability to create and erase or change the "story" to any way he wants it to be.

2)Has millions of times the power of the Marvel Multiverse- Does this need any further explanations?

3)Has Infinite Reality Warping Ability- more flexible than IG or even HOTU.

4)Has the Absolute Ability to VIOLATE multiverses- thier laws, thier concepts, thier order....means NOTHING to Classic Beyonder. The Presence, TOAA.....there laws and power means nothing to Classic Beyonder, who is the embodyment of Absolute Power itself.




Guys be realistic. The Classic Beyonder could turn The Great Evil Beast into toilet paper if he wanted to. WHY? Because the Great Evil Beast is a factual entity that belongs to DC/Vertigo.....it is a SERIOUS construct of that entire existance.

Classic Beyonder exceeds existance, he exceeds seriousness. HE is like a child with the power to rewrite the comic book however the hell he wanted to. He can VIOLATE DC/Vertigo's existance the way he did Marvel's.

Classic Beyonder is the ultamate in uber cheesy powerful characters, and he is basically unbeatable...unless he WANTED to be beaten. He'd definately destroy, erase, duplicate, shit on, copy, eat, swallow, WHATEVER he wanted to do...to the GEB....and with Thanos with HOTU?????That's just overkill !

I rest my case.

props to Lord Urizen.

Lord Urizen you do know that The Great Evil Beast is GODS only equal right??? The Classic Beyonder was not a all knowing all powerful being, even though they may say that in the comics you must look at his actions. DC even has the real world as part of there comic book structure, and that is how high they put TGEB. The Beyonder encompassed a whole universe that was outside of the Marvel Multiverse. Then we see he couldn't do anything to Marvel-Death but tricking her into her own death. We then see other things that don't make much sense like him being more powerful then LT . TGEB stands alone while swatting the Beyonder like a fly. Was there really a retcon to begin with or was people not paying close enough attention ?

That Beyonder was a joke who really didn't exsist

thats why this is classic beyonder so him existing or not is not the real question here.

Originally posted by kevdude
Lord Urizen you do know that The Great Evil Beast is GODS only equal right??? The Classic Beyonder was not a all knowing all powerful being, even though they may say that in the comics you must look at his actions.


1) Yes I am aware, GEB is equal to Presence.

2) Classic Beyonder is NOT all knowing....true that ! Infact he wanted to know what DESIRE was. IMAGINE THAT ! A being so rediculously power he never wanted anything before, cuz everything he ever wanted he already had or could easily get .

3) His actions are unnecessary when you compare then to what the creators of Classic Beyonder said themselves about thier own character. The above descriptions are VALID regardless of whether or not they annoy you.





Originally posted by kevdude
DC even has the real world as part of there comic book structure, and that is how high they put TGEB. The Beyonder encompassed a whole universe that was outside of the Marvel Multiverse.



The Great Evil Beast is a serious part of DC/Vertigo's structure. GEB "belongs" to DC/Vertigo. Classic Beyonder is not a part of Marvel's structure. In fact he VIOLATES it.....he is an OUTSIDER even to Marvel's set existance. He can violate abd manipulate DC/Vertigo as easy as he did Marvel.


Classic Beyonder is not a serious character either....he's not like GEB who plays a major role in DC/Vertigo's existance. Classic Beyonder plays NO ROLE, in fact he should never have been in Marvel's multiverse, he doesn't belong there....THAT's the WHOLE POINT.

Classic Beyonder had NO RIGHT to do what he did to the Marvel Multiverse. BUT HE DID.......Laws, Orders, Structures, Reality, Fantasy.....all the same shit to Classic Beyonder....

To Classic Beyonder reality is the same thing as grass, rules are the same thing as toilet paper, EXISTANCE is just a COMIC BOOK to him....what part of this aren't you getting?



Originally posted by kevdude
Then we see he couldn't do anything to Marvel-Death but tricking her into her own death. We then see other things that don't make much sense like him being more powerful then LT . TGEB stands alone while swatting the Beyonder like a fly. Was there really a retcon to begin with or was people not paying close enough attention ?


There was a retcon, he was depowered so much that Living Tribunal was able to trap him in a secluded reality away from Marvel's main universes.

Living Tribunal would have never been able to do that to Classic Beyonder. Even Mr. Master agrees...EVEN MIDER agrees......

You say Classic Beyonder couldn't kill Death? I'd like to see the scan where he was unable to do so. Are you certain he wasn't just toying with her? Are you even talkn about him, or Thanos with HOTU?

beyonder did kill death that is one of his feats he killed her and so everything became immortal and nothing could die, molecule man said that with all his power he couldnt even kill one single flower, then he made someone else into death cause he decided death was nessacary.