Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

i know this has been done before but i think it will end differently this time
i been seeing the hierarchy change every couple of weeks lately and was wondering if we finally have a definite top ten list
i am very interested in knowing the final hierarchy for marvel

this site seems to have alot more experts than others in this field
everything is included except toaa and thotu cause thats a given

the dc hierarchy has been pretty much established

Current? So no pre-retcons? cannon stories???

cause squirrel girl >>>>>>>> TOAA!

i know galactus is up there
korvac
watchers
phoenix
infinity gauntlet
doom tony stark and reed with prep
celestials

Originally posted by rotiart
Current? So no pre-retcons? cannon stories???

cause squirrel girl >>>>>>>> TOAA!

everything goes pre-post items whatever except toaa and thotu
no squirrel girl

Current?

TOAA
Thanos with HOTU
Infinity Being
Thanos/Warlock/Nebula with IG
Ultimate Nullifier
Abraxas/Aleta
MultiEternity/Infinity/Death
The Infinites/White Crown Phoenix/The Beyonders/The Makers/The Shapers
Scarlet Witch House of Magneto
Eternity/Galactus/Death/Oblivion/Aegis/Tenebrus/Unilord
Chaos/Order
Celestials
Beyonder/Hate/Love/Stranger
Mephisto/Dormammu

Rough thoughts on it. but yah, calling yourself the final thread is a bit ambiguous... since you acknowledge the lineup changes. So much to name...

If you allow PreRetcons... put PR Molecule Man above Thanos with HOTU, and PR Beyonder above that... with only TOAA above them all.

Originally posted by rotiart
Current?

TOAA
Thanos with HOTU
Infinity Being
Thanos/Warlock/Nebula with IG
Ultimate Nullifier
Abraxas/Aleta
MultiEternity/Infinity/Death
The Infinites/White Crown Phoenix/The Beyonders/The Makers/The Shapers
Scarlet Witch House of Magneto
Eternity/Galactus/Death/Oblivion/Aegis/Tenebrus/Unilord
Chaos/Order
Celestials
Beyonder/Hate/Love/Stranger
Mephisto/Dormammu/B]

who are the shapers and unilord and aleta

This is really just meant as information for you isn't it.
Admit it.

Originally posted by Smoki
i know galactus is up there
korvac
watchers
phoenix
infinity gauntlet
doom tony stark and reed with prep
celestials

Galactus?

Watchers?

Korvac?

Originally posted by rotiart
This is really just meant as information for you isn't it.
Admit it.

The kid needs it rot.

He put Big G in his "Top Ten"...

find it funny that he puts reed with prep up there with celestials?

Originally posted by rotiart
find it funny that he puts reed with prep up there with celestials?

I know Reed with prep is definitely higher than that.

Originally posted by rotiart
find it funny that he puts reed with prep up there with celestials?


Well, if he's going to include Prep in this madness, (I just noticed that) then I would put Mr Fantastic in my Hierarchy.

You know Reed's brain is Multiversal

Originally posted by rotiart
Current?

TOAA
Thanos with HOTU
Infinity Being
Thanos/Warlock/Nebula with IG
Ultimate Nullifier
Abraxas/Aleta
MultiEternity/Infinity/Death
The Infinites/White Crown Phoenix/The Beyonders/The Makers/The Shapers
Scarlet Witch House of Magneto
Eternity/Galactus/Death/Oblivion/Aegis/Tenebrus/Unilord
Chaos/Order
Celestials
Beyonder/Hate/Love/Stranger
Mephisto/Dormammu

Rough thoughts on it. but yah, calling yourself the final thread is a bit ambiguous... since you acknowledge the lineup changes. So much to name...

If you allow PreRetcons... put PR Molecule Man above Thanos with HOTU, and PR Beyonder above that... with only TOAA above them all.
1, You forgot the judge...
2, Thanos had the Supereme being's power, therefore he don't have less power than TOAA.
3, Classic- Beyonder and Molecule man are exeptions...
4, Don't the infinities belong to DC?

The David Richards Hyperstorm is higher then Scarlet Witch and Phoenix

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
1, You forgot the judge...
2, Thanos had the Supereme being's power, therefore he don't have less power than TOAA.
3, Classic- Beyonder and Molecule man are exeptions...

1. Forgot LT stupid me. He'd below Thanos with HOTU.

2. Well Thanos says he is supreme, but still can't stop whats going on. And when he refers to the fact that he knows he has to end up giving up his power and that even with the power of the supreme he can't correct everything. that doesn't have to refer to the fact that TOAA couldn't do it, but that he delegated it to Thanos...

3. I say as of current.. Theoretically TOAA is supposed to be all marvel multiverses... so even if Beyonder was the power of millions of multiverses.. TOAA is still above that.

I'm not sure anything I just typed made sense... I'm starving and have to wait for a coworker before i go to lunch... dammit... i want something to eat... hrmm... mexican sounds good... god.. that made me think of my ex.

Originally posted by rotiart
1. Forgot LT stupid me. He'd below Thanos with HOTU.

2. Well Thanos says he is supreme, but still can't stop whats going on. And when he refers to the fact that he knows he has to end up giving up his power and that even with the power of the supreme he can't correct everything. that doesn't have to refer to the fact that TOAA couldn't do it, but that he delegated it to Thanos...

3. I say as of current.. Theoretically TOAA is supposed to be all marvel multiverses... so even if Beyonder was the power of millions of multiverses.. TOAA is still above that.

I'm not sure anything I just typed made sense... I'm starving and have to wait for a coworker before i go to lunch... dammit... i want something to eat... hrmm... mexican sounds good... god.. that made me think of my ex.
2, He unmade HotU that what wook his life, the separation from the power. And yeah he undone the deeds he done.
3, At that time all that was Marvel was called the Multi-verse, and the only reason it seems so reduced (millions) is because Molecule man was in the Multi-verse as well.
Remeber Beyonder was anything in the Multi-verse and evreything beyond it.

Skip mexican and eat taifood, or something Japanese.

3. Toaa supposedly rules over all of it.

Besides if TOAA was in the Marvel back than it would be counted as one of the forces that was just a fraction of Beyonder.

Well thats just theory either way isn't it. :P

Originally posted by rotiart
3. Toaa supposedly rules over all of it.
He didnt when Beyonder was pre-retconned.

Originally posted by rotiart
Well thats just theory either way isn't it. :P
True

What is the Infinity Being? Anyway..heres the Top 10.

Multiversal Death is also hard to put..


TOAA ( Omniverse TOAA?)
Original Beyonder ( Said to have more power than the marvel multiverse combined/ Obliterated the concept of Death)
Thanos with HOTU ( Power of the Marvel Multiverse)
Ultimate Nullifier ( Destroyed Multi-Eternity, and MultiEternity = Multiverse minus Realms ( negative zone, vishanti's dimension, etc)
White Crown Phoenix ( Repaired the Multi-Verse}/ Abraxas ( Caused Havok in the Multi-Verse on a similiar level)
Living Tribunal
Infinity Gauntlet
The Infinites/ The Makers/ The Shapers
Eternity/Infinity
In-Betweener, Chaos & Order in magik universeGalactus Full/Arishem/Exitar/ / Love/ Hate/ Anomaly/ Eon/ Epoch/ Stranger

Originally posted by Ethereal
What is the Infinity Being? Anyway..heres the Top 10.

Multiversal Death is also hard to put..


TOAA
Original Beyonder ( Said to have more power than the marvel multiverse combined/ Obliterated the concept of Death)
Thanos with HOTU ( Power of the Marvel Multiverse)
Ultimate Nullifier ( Destroyed Multi-Eternity, and MultiEternity = Multiverse minus Realms ( negative zone, vishanti's dimension, etc)
White Crown Phoenix ( Repaired the Multi-Verse}/ Abraxas ( Caused Havok in the Multi-Verse on a similiar level)
Living Tribunal
Infinity Gauntlet
The Infinites/ The Makers/ The Shapers
Eternity/Infinity
In-Betweener, Chaos & Order in magik universeGalactus Full/Arishem/Exitar/ / Love/ Hate/ Anomaly/ Eon/ Epoch/ Stranger
... Again:
1, The Heart was the power and essence of the Supreme being (TOAA)
2, The Nullifier was bellow the Gauntlet, which was bellow the Living Tribunal.
3, The Multi-verse do not have it's own power if you're not refering to Multi-Eternity
4, White Phoenix held the universe in her hand, that was her greatest feat.
This list is full of it...

1.TOAA
2.Living Tribunal

everything else is debateable.

Multiverse is more than multi-eternity.

for instance, the negative-zone wasnt in the mainstream universe that comprised of eternity--but is in the multiverse.

and the real nullifier, the one kept in seperate pieces in seperate universes did undo multi-eternity, because of abraxas.

and TOAA was never mentioned in THE END, when Thanos had the power of the marvel actuality...even then Adam Warlcok at the anchor of reality and death were out of his touch...

The TOAA some refer too, is on an omniversal level..not a multi-versal level.

so TOAA > Thanos w/ HOTU

Originally posted by Ethereal
Multiverse is more than multi-eternity.

for instance, the negative-zone wasnt in the mainstream universe that comprised of eternity--but is in the multiverse.

and the nullifier did undo multi-eternity, because of abraxas.

and TOAA was never mentioned in THE END, when Thanos had the power of the marvel actuality...even then Adam Warlcok at the anchor of reality and death were out of his touch...

The TOAA some refer too, is on an omniversal level.. not a multi-versal level.
http://img287.imageshack.us/my.php?image=thoumakesyouomniall7do.jpg
.. So TOAA = Heart

And: Living Tribunal >> Infinity Gauntlet > Incomplete Infinity Gauntlet >> Ultimate Nullifier

I agree with this guy: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t419111.html
(check out his latest tiers (last page)

1. TOAA
2. Living Tribunal/True Beyonders
3. Death/Phoenix Force/The Infinites
4. Eternity/Galactus (full power)/Abraxas
5. Lord Order/Master Chaos/Scarlet Witch
6. Celestials/Franklin Richards/Galactus
7. Hyperstorm/Korvac/The Watchers
8. Kosmos/Kubik/Shaper of Worlds
9. Onslaught/Alpha the Ultimate Mutant (as ever-evolving entities)
10. Oshtur/Hoggoth/Agamotto
11. Ego the Living Planet/In-Betweener/Atum the God-Eater
12. Set/Chthon/Shuma Gorath
13. Surtur/Stranger/Cyttorak
14. Skyfather
15. Dormammu/The Destroyer
16. Thanos/Elders of the Universe
17. Doctor Strange/Genis-Vell/Sentry
18. Silver Surfer/Quasar/Thor
19. Blackbolt/Adam Warlock/Drax
20. Magneto/God-Cable/Shaman X-Man


this is my list from the hierarchy debates that happened about a year ago.

uhhh X-man is way too low on that list. He could teleport between different dimensions with his powers, he is way higher than Magneto and cable.

Abraxas casues Multi-versal destruction

http://img318.imageshack.us/my.php?image=earthalignment26rx.jpg


Reed uses the Ultimate Nullifier to banish Abraxas & Remake the Multiverse

http://img343.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1unisusedbyreedtodestroyabraxa.jpg


Multi-Eternity Beign undone by the Ultimate Nullifier

http://img350.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2undestroysmultieternityinfini.jpg

1.TOAA.
2.HOTU
3.Pre-Retcon Beyonder
4.Living Tribunal
5.Infinity Gauntlet
6.Ultimate Nullifier
7.Abraxas
8.Multi-Eternity/Multi-Infinity
9.Infinites/Makers
10.Cosmic Containment Units
11.Atleza/Universal Anchors
12.Oblivion
13.Phoenix Force
14.Eternity/Infinty/Entropy/Death/Full Power Galactus

There are more, but those seem to come up the most around here.

(I consider TOAA to be above THOU because while they have the same power, THOU does not grant the Omniscience that goes along with it, and I consider the Beyonder just below both because he was everything OUTSIDE the mainstream Marvel Muliverse/Universe(whichever), while TOAA has dominion over everything in the Multiverse and Beyond, in the Marvel omniverse. But several people disagree with me and since it's ALL theoretical, it's really a matter of personal opinion.)

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
http://img287.imageshack.us/my.php?image=thoumakesyouomniall7do.jpg
.. So TOAA = Heart

And: Living Tribunal >> Infinity Gauntlet > Incomplete Infinity Gauntlet >> Ultimate Nullifier
Again...

Now that I think about it, the UN should be lower..

but by evidence stated then..

Thanos w/ HOTU > Living Tribunal > IG > Nullifier > Multi-Eternity > Abraxas > Galactus

And I know the Classic Beyonder > Death and obviously all the cosmic types inclusing LT and molecule man

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Again...
Who are you trying to convince?

Pre-retcon Beyonder
Pre-retcon Molecule man
Pre-retcon Amalgam brothers
The One Above All / Heart of the Universe
The Living Tribunal
Infinity Being
Infinity Gauntlet
Incomplete Infinity Gauntlet
Ultimate Nullifier
Multi-Eternity

Pre-retcon Beyonder was with no doubt the most powerful being at his time.
And the Molecule man only second to him.
Pre-retcon Amalgam brothers were TOAA and the Presence, before they were retconned that is, even though this happend in a DC vs Marvel crossover I belive that's a part of Marvel.
The One Above All, or the essence of his power.
The Living Tribunal of corse
If the Infinity Gauntlet also had the 7th gem (ego gem) than it would equal Infinity Being.
Nullifier couldent be used against the wielder of a incomplete Infinity Gauntlet.
Nullifier deleted and remade the Multi-verse.
Multi-Eternity is simply the powers of all Eternity's combinded.

Pre-retcon Galactus (before he was beat by FF) is the most powerful

Originally posted by thedude1948
Pre-retcon Galactus (before he was beat by FF) is the most powerful
The statements about him were high... No doubt.

Originally posted by Ethereal
What is the Infinity Being? Anyway..heres the Top 10.

Multiversal Death is also hard to put..


TOAA ( Omniverse TOAA?)
Original Beyonder ( Said to have more power than the marvel multiverse combined/ Obliterated the concept of Death)
Thanos with HOTU ( Power of the Marvel Multiverse)
Ultimate Nullifier ( Destroyed Multi-Eternity, and MultiEternity = Multiverse minus Realms ( negative zone, vishanti's dimension, etc)
White Crown Phoenix ( Repaired the Multi-Verse}/ Abraxas ( Caused Havok in the Multi-Verse on a similiar level)
Living Tribunal
Infinity Gauntlet
The Infinites/ The Makers/ The Shapers
Eternity/Infinity
In-Betweener, Chaos & Order in magik universeGalactus Full/Arishem/Exitar/ / Love/ Hate/ Anomaly/ Eon/ Epoch/ Stranger

This list is way out of wack.

Phoenix NEVER repaired the Multi-verse, and her position should be equal to other Abstracts below Eternity (the Single Universe)

Living Tribunal is second only to TOAA and HOTU (TOAA's power, NOT it's authority)...if we include the Pre-era then,

Pre-Retcon Beyonder and Molecule Man are also above LT.

Galactus Full is Above ALL other Abtracts and equal to Eternity

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Pre-retcon Beyonder
Pre-retcon Molecule man
Pre-retcon Amalgam brothers
The One Above All / Heart of the Universe
The Living Tribunal
Infinity Being
Infinity Gauntlet
Incomplete Infinity Gauntlet
Ultimate Nullifier
Multi-Eternity

Pre-retcon Beyonder was with no doubt the most powerful being at his time.
And the Molecule man only second to him.
Pre-retcon Amalgam brothers were TOAA and the Presence, before they were retconned that is, even though this happend in a DC vs Marvel crossover I belive that's a part of Marvel.
The One Above All, or the essence of his power.
The Living Tribunal of corse
If the Infinity Gauntlet also had the 7th gem (ego gem) than it would equal Infinity Being.
Nullifier couldent be used against the wielder of a incomplete Infinity Gauntlet.
Nullifier deleted and remade the Multi-verse.
Multi-Eternity is simply the powers of all Eternity's combinded.
Nice Theory, your welcome to it(we'll just have to agree to disagree).

Originally posted by Mr Master
This list is way out of wack.

Phoenix NEVER repaired the Multi-verse, and her position should be equal to other Abstracts below Eternity (the Single Universe)

Living Tribunal is second only to TOAA and HOTU (TOAA's power, NOT it's authority)...if we include the Pre-era then,

Pre-Retcon Beyonder and Molecule Man are also above LT.

Galactus Full is Above ALL other Abtracts and equal to Eternity
Now correct my list. - Seriously, if there is any error's you're the one that can prove them.

1 TOAA
2 Classic Beyonder
3 Classic Molecule Man
4 Thanos win HOTU
5 The Ulimate Nullifeir
6 Abrax
7 Living Tribunal
8 IG
9 M. Eternity

Marvel hierarchy:

1.GOD/the Artist(Jack Kirby presumably)
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/6721/godte6.th.jpg

1.TOAA/"the Writer"(Stan Lee presumably)
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/5329/toaahd8.th.jpg

God/Jack calls him his "Collaborator".....

It makes sense....

TOAA/Stan lays down the Story/Laws of Marvel.

GOD/Jack turns those Stories/Laws into reality.

2. Pre-Retcon Beyonder
(he can do anything with the power of millions of Multi-verses)
http://img431.imageshack.us/img431/7524/beyondermillionsofxmorepowerfu.th.jpg
http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/3159/beyondercandoanythingml3.th.jpg

3. Pre-Retcon Molecule Man
(second only to classic Beyonder)
http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/7054/uatubeggingmmbo6.th.jpg

4. HOTU
(Absrorbed LT)
http://img423.imageshack.us/img423/79/thoumakesyousupreme1du4.th.jpg

5. Living Tribunal
(who is above the IG)
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/2994/lt2cm.th.jpg

6. Infinity Gauntlet
(makes you "God"
http://img287.imageshack.us/img287/4705/igmakesyougod23un.th.jpg


7. Ultimate Nullifier
(can destroy/remake the Multi-verse)
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/5568/unismulticv0.th.jpg

Tied for #8

8. Abraxas
(his very presence will cause the Multi-verse to fold in on itself/only the ultimate nullifier can banish him)
http://img281.imageshack.us/img281/8695/0unabraxaskillsallg3ps.th.jpg

8. Evil Molecule Man (Post-retcon Owen Reece)
http://img173.imageshack.us/img173/3382/evilmm2mu1.th.jpg

9. Multi-Eternity/Multi-Infinity
(embodiments of the Multiverse/Time&Space)
http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/1623/multiverse2co.th.jpg
http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/5109/multiverse28yb.th.jpg

10. Infinites/Makers
(The Infinites are the maintenance crew of the Multi-verse)
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/9813/infinitesdl7.th.jpg

(The Makers created a Micro-verse pocket universe in every universe in the Multi-verse...later these mini-universes were merged to create one mega-universe named creatively...the Micro-verse...lol.)
sorry no pics...

Originally posted by thedude1948
1.TOAA
2.Living Tribunal

everything else is debateable.

very true.

11. Cosmic Containment Units (POTENTIALLY))

5 Cosmic Containment Units CREATED a Duplicate 616 Universe.
http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/7572/cosmiccubesmakeduplicate0fv.th.jpg

Magus might of created Universes...instead of just One Universe with the 5 Cosmic Cubes.
http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/8372/maguscreateduniversewccue9.th.jpg
http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/6025/maguscreateduniversewcc2gb2.th.jpg

Doom say's it only takes ONE to possibly conquer the Entire Universe.
http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/8821/maguscreateduniversewcc3zq6.th.jpg

Which is true...if you have enough WILL power...

Cosmic Containment Units may be able to rival the power of the IG,(POTENTIALLY)
Here Mephisto is telling Thanos about the history of the Cubes...they actually impose limitations on themselves(the containment units)not the entities like kubik and others.
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/9929/cosmiccubesareallpowerful1wccv8.th.jpg

When Thanos with his willpower exploited that Cosmic Cube...he became the size of a Universe and shrunk down after Marvel destroyed the Cube, which was in some other space unprotected.
First Marvel found the unprotected Cube and destroyed it.
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/7453/cosmiccubemakesyouauniverse1dn.th.jpg

Then Thanos, who had become the size of the Universe..shrunk down and fell unconscious.
http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/5301/cosmiccubemakesyouauniverse22l.th.jpg

Or it can simply make you "God"
http://img336.imageshack.us/img336/1613/cosmiccubemakesyougod5st.th.jpg

Tied for #11

11. Atleza/and the rest of the Universal Anchors
(They stabilize their respective Universes from being absorbed by Oblivion)
http://img336.imageshack.us/img336/8021/unilook17qj.th.jpg
http://img280.imageshack.us/img280/9715/unilook21qc.th.jpg

11. Oblivion (resides in the Cosmic Vortex, swallowing Universes that collapse, are destroyed, nullified, and displaced by a weakened Anchor
http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/7376/adamgoesbtwnuniverses26zw.th.jpg


Tied for #12.

12. Phoenix Force
(repaired the lattice of the mkraan crystal/repaired an amputated future
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/580/pf5nb7.th.jpg

12. Eternity/Infinty
(embodiment of time & space in a single universe)
http://img430.imageshack.us/img430/9814/unisa8.th.jpg

FULL Power Galactus (equal to Eternity)
http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/2672/doomuniversalawarenessiy7.th.jpg

Entropy
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/4651/entropyrm5.th.jpg
Death
http://img472.imageshack.us/img472/904/deathperceivesall1vp.th.jpg

Rest of the Abstracts and so on...

Mr. M. You forgot Max power Galactus, he should be tied with Eternity, shouldn't he.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Mr. M. You forgot Max power Galactus, he should be tied with Eternity, shouldn't he.

That's correct darth, I just included him.

Whoops... earlier I misspoke... and said Aleta... when I meant Atleza... or whatever her name is.

Does anybody understands current, which means now.


1. TOAA(God)
2. Living Tribunal/ White Crown Phoenix/ True Beyonder
3. Infinites/ Anybody w/ the IG
4. Eternity/ Death/ Oblivion/Infinity/ Abaraxas/ Full Powered Galactus/ The Seven Firendlys (children of Eternity)/ Exitar
5. Normal Galactus/ Celestails/ full Powered Tyrant/ Ego/ Phoenix Avartars
6. The Watchers/ Chaos&Order/ Love&Hate/ Nebula/ Eon
7. In-Betweener/ The Stranger/ Epoch/ Hungrey Galactus

Originally posted by the Darkone
Does anybody understands current, which means now.


1. TOAA(God)
2. Living Tribunal/ White Crown Phoenix/ True Beyonder
3. Infinites/ Anybody w/ the IG
4. Eternity/ Death/ Oblivion/Infinity/ Abaraxas/ Full Powered Galactus/ The Seven Firendlys (children of Eternity)/ Exitar
5. Normal Galactus/ Celestails/ full Powered Tyrant/ Ego/ Phoenix Avartars
6. The Watchers/ Chaos&Order/ Love&Hate/ Nebula/ Eon
7. In-Betweener/ The Stranger/ Epoch/ Hungrey Galactus

This is actully the best given list in this thread and I agree with the Darkone.
Except that I would give True Beyonder bellow White Phoenix of the Crown and bellow Living Tribunal.

Originally posted by the Darkone
Does anybody understands current, which means now.

1. TOAA(God)
2. Living Tribunal/ White Crown Phoenix/ True Beyonder
3. Infinites/ Anybody w/ the IG
4. Eternity/ Death/ Oblivion/Infinity/ Abaraxas/ Full Powered Galactus/ The Seven Firendlys (children of Eternity)/ Exitar
5. Normal Galactus/ Celestails/ full Powered Tyrant/ Ego/ Phoenix Avartars
6. The Watchers/ Chaos&Order/ Love&Hate/ Nebula/ Eon
7. In-Betweener/ The Stranger/ Epoch/ Hungrey Galactus


Actually the thread starter said everything included, Pre-retcons and all.

Still though, if it were current, this list wouldn't do.

What is Phoenix doing next to LT and above the Infinites, IG and the Abstracts?


On the "Current" tip: BASED on FEATS...


1. TOAA/GOD/HOTU (In Power, NOT Authority)

2. Living Tribunal

3. Infinity Gauntlet/Cosmic Containment Units (Potentially)

4. Ultimate Nullifier

5. Abraxas

6. Multi-Eternity/Multi-Infinity (the Multi-verse)

7. Infinites/Makers/Cosmic Containment Units (Unevolved Cosmic Cubes)

8. Atleza/Oblivion

9. White Phoenix of the Crown/Eternity & Infinity/Entropy/Death

10. Rest of the Abstracts and so on...

Originally posted by Xplosive
This is actully the best given list in this thread
Except that I would give True Beyonder bellow White Phoenix of the Crown and bellow Living Tribunal.

Wasnt the Living Tribunal humbled by the power of the phoenix?

Originally posted by Ethereal
Wasnt the Living Tribunal humbled by the power of the phoenix? LT was humbeled by Thanos /w/ THOTU....... thanos obtained the power of god himself when he obtained the heart, for that reason he was the most powerful character in all of marvel

yall forgot to put me on that list

Where would you guys place Roma? And her race of people...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roma_(comics)

Originally posted by Ethereal
Wasnt the Living Tribunal humbled by the power of the phoenix?

Never.

It was this fallacy that got that rumor started.


On the Scan that never existed....

let me break it down for you.

Scan 1:

Here Eternity is explaining to Jean how the Universe works and how it has lead to US....

Already proved this many times over...Phoenix is the SPARK that ignites the natural Big Bang of a Universe, which ends life and begins life in said Universe.
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/82/1tj1.th.jpg
Phoenix is NOT the Big Bang and the scan clearly tells us the Celestials SEEDED the Universe with Creation and the Celestial were created by Eternity.

Scan 2:

Ok, here Eternity says, "like Galactus was the sole survivor...so shall Humanity Begin the End, End the Beginning."

NOTHING about Phoenix.

"Oblivion will embrace all...creation will Renew itself"...(no need for Phoenix)

"And therein lies the Stranger's conceit"...


Ok, I'm sure you see now that the Stranger WANTS to BE ABLE to do..what Humans WILL BE ABLE to do one day.

(Which is WHY they are BOWING to HIM in the scan...

because one day WE (Humans), will NOT need the Abstracts or even the Living Tribunal...

they will be as NOTHING to US (Humans).
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/7654/2um6.th.jpg
"He plans to spark Humanity's Evolution Now...to Engulf the cosmos."

How does he PLAN to do that?....AT one time some even thought it would be with the power of Phoenix.

But I think not.


Scan 3 & 4:

The Stranger was going to use 5 (FIVE) individuals to accomplish his "Spark in Humanity's Evolution Now...to Engulf the cosmos"

Marko, Jean, Iceman, Toad, Mystique.
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/9540/3bk8.th.jpg

More Proof it was FIVE individuals the Stranger was going to use to "Spark Humanity's Evolution Now...to Engulf the cosmos"...

NOT Phoenix...NOT PHOENIX AT ALL....Jean didn't even have the Phoenix Force during this time.
http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/4319/4jj0.th.jpg
"To pluck FIVE representative Earthlings to SERVE as his Evolutionary Vanguards"

notworthy------------------>nono

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Where would you guys place Roma? And her race of people...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roma_(comics)

I been sleeping on Roma, Guardian of the Multi-verse:


Roma she inherited the reins of the Multi-verse
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/5075/romasithg4.th.jpg
Merlin is Not dead by the way

Roma says Understanding the Universe is hard enough, but she tends to Eternity (the Multi-verse)
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/32/roma2cd9.th.jpg
"Within it, ALL that ever was, ever is or ever will be exists"

She's very powerful, and she has a weapon that can erase Universes with a click (the Celestial Nullifier) - I'll post those scans later.

Roma has Control over Time...Here she is with a Cap. Brit. would be successor
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/2444/romarevive1xr7.th.jpg

Roma plucks her husband (who was Dead) from the Past
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/9536/romarevive2od8.th.jpg
And brings him to the Present (Alive) with a gesture


Roma Oversees the Entire Multi-verse personally,
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/1483/roma1fh6.th.jpg
And the Omni-verse with her Father Merlin.

The Omni-verse is EVERY possible Alternate Reality (ALL the Marvel Universes)
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/4731/romaomnivs9.th.jpg

Captain Marvel (as a child), Captain America, the Black Knight & Medusa enter through the "Siege Perilous", into the Marvel Omni-verse.


The entrance to the Omni-verse, which is called "the Siege Perilous"
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/9493/omni1rb6.th.jpg

The OMNI-VERSE
http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/9923/omni2cn6.th.jpg
http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/211/omni3uj8.th.jpg
Merlyn and Roma oversee the Omni-verse and Betsy Braddock (Captain Britain's sister), is in training.

Merlyn is schooling Captain Marvel (the child) about "Cosmic Consciousness"
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/4371/omni4xk9.th.jpg
http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/3214/omni5gf2.th.jpg

It seems Merlyn knows EVERYTHING that's happening in the Omni-verse
http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/6558/omni6xf1.th.jpg
Roma even says. "Many believe my Father is the son of the devil"

And still Merlyn says, This is only a piece of FULL Omniscience
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/8093/omni7am0.th.jpg

They exit and leave.
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/1826/omni8va7.th.jpg

But Beyonder was everything there was inside the Marvel Multi-verse and outside it (Omni-verse). And he also had the power's of the writers (stated by Stan Lee) Would that mean he would equal a writer (God) in power?

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
But Beyonder was everything there was inside the Marvel Multi-verse and outside it (Omni-verse). And he also had the power's of the writers (stated by Stan Lee) Would that mean he would equal a writer (God) in power?

Remember though,

When Beyonder was these things, the Omni-verse didn't exist.

It was just One Multi-verse and the Beyond Realm.

TOAA and THOTU are the same in Power, but NOT Authority, which is why Thanos was manipulated even though he had the Power.


That whole thing about him being the "writer" I don't indulge to much, Beyonder was the most powerful being ever, for many reasons.

Beyonder was the Writers/God or Beyonder can do anything (What's the difference)


And for the Record, The Omni-verse is ALL the Universes in Marvel, and that's it, it has nothing to do with other companies.

But in terms of power wouldent you set HOTU with God and TOAA?

Originally posted by Mr Master
Remember though,

When Beyonder was these things, the Omni-verse didn't exist.

It was just One Multi-verse and the Beyond Realm.

TOAA and THOTU are the same in Power, but NOT Authority, which is why Thanos was manipulated even though he had the Power.


That whole thing about him being the "writer" I don't indulge to much, Beyonder was the most powerful being ever, for many reasons.

Beyonder was the Writer's/God or Beyonder can do anything (What's the difference)


And for the Record, The Omni-verse is ALL the Universes in Marvel, and that's it, it has nothing to do with other companies.

Well put

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
But Beyonder was everything there was inside the Marvel Multi-verse and outside it (Omni-verse). And he also had the power's of the writers (stated by Stan Lee) Would that mean he would equal a writer (God) in power?

Just a quick thingy, it wasn't stated by Stan Lee.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
But in terms of power wouldent you set HOTU with God and TOAA?

Yes, thats what I was trying to convey.

TOAA=God= THOTU (in Power, but NOT Authority)

Originally posted by manorastroman
1. TOAA
2. Living Tribunal/True Beyonders
3. Death/Phoenix Force/The Infinites
4. Eternity/Galactus (full power)/Abraxas
5. Lord Order/Master Chaos/Scarlet Witch
6. Celestials/Franklin Richards/Galactus
7. Hyperstorm/Korvac/The Watchers
8. Kosmos/Kubik/Shaper of Worlds
9. Onslaught/Alpha the Ultimate Mutant (as ever-evolving entities)
10. Oshtur/Hoggoth/Agamotto
11. Ego the Living Planet/In-Betweener/Atum the God-Eater
12. Set/Chthon/Shuma Gorath
13. Surtur/Stranger/Cyttorak
14. Skyfather
15. Dormammu/The Destroyer
16. Thanos/Elders of the Universe
17. Doctor Strange/Genis-Vell/Sentry
18. Silver Surfer/Quasar/Thor
19. Blackbolt/Adam Warlock/Drax
20. Magneto/God-Cable/Shaman X-Man


this is my list from the hierarchy debates that happened about a year ago.

Nice list.Where did you get it from?

Added 3 characters to the list: Roma, Wanda and Genis


On the "Current" tip: BASED on FEATS...


1. TOAA/GOD/HOTU (In Power, NOT Authority)

2. Living Tribunal

3. Infinity Gauntlet/Cosmic Containment Units (Potentially)

4. Ultimate Nullifier

5. Abraxas

6. Multi-Eternity/Multi-Infinity (the Multi-verse)

7. Infinites/Makers/Cosmic Containment Units (Unevolved Cosmic Cubes)

7. Roma with the Celestial Nullifier

7. Crazy Wanda

8. Atleza/Oblivion/Insane Genis-Vell

9. White Phoenix of the Crown/Eternity & Infinity/Entropy/Death

10. Rest of the Abstracts and so on...

Originally posted by Mr Master
Added 3 characters to the list: Roma, Wanda and Genis


On the "Current" tip: BASED on FEATS...


1. TOAA/GOD/HOTU (In Power, NOT Authority)

2. Living Tribunal

3. Infinity Gauntlet/Cosmic Containment Units (Potentially)

4. Ultimate Nullifier

5. Abraxas

6. Multi-Eternity/Multi-Infinity (the Multi-verse)

7. Infinites/Makers/Cosmic Containment Units (Unevolved Cosmic Cubes)

7. Roma with the Celestial Nullifier

7. Crazy Wanda

8. Atleza/Oblivion/Insane Genis-Vell

9. White Phoenix of the Crown/Eternity & Infinity/Entropy/Death

10. Rest of the Abstracts and so on...
And Pre-retcon Molecule man and Beyonder?

Originally posted by Mr Master
Actually the thread starter said everything included, Pre-retcons and all.

Still though, if it were current, this list wouldn't do.

What is Phoenix doing next to LT and above the Infinites, IG and the Abstracts?


On the "Current" tip: BASED on FEATS...


1. TOAA/GOD/HOTU (In Power, NOT Authority)

2. Living Tribunal

3. Infinity Gauntlet/Cosmic Containment Units (Potentially)

4. Ultimate Nullifier

5. Abraxas

6. Multi-Eternity/Multi-Infinity (the Multi-verse)

7. Infinites/Makers/Cosmic Containment Units (Unevolved Cosmic Cubes)

8. Atleza/Oblivion

9. White Phoenix of the Crown/Eternity & Infinity/Entropy/Death

10. Rest of the Abstracts and so on...

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
And Pre-retcon Molecule man and Beyonder?
Again: You said that the Beyonder was the most powerful characrer Marvel ever created, and you equal HOTU to TOAA, where would Beyonder be on your list?

*?

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Again: You said that the Beyonder was the most powerful characrer Marvel ever created, and you equal HOTU to TOAA, where would Beyonder be on your list?

Wut up T.


This list is actually ONLY considering Current characters, that's why it has no Pre-retcons in it.


1. TOAA/GOD/HOTU (In Power, NOT Authority)

2. Living Tribunal

3. Infinity Gauntlet/Cosmic Containment Units (Potentially)

4. Ultimate Nullifier

5. Abraxas

6. Multi-Eternity/Multi-Infinity (the Multi-verse)

7. Infinites/Makers/Cosmic Containment Units (Unevolved Cosmic Cubes)

7. Roma with the Celestial Nullifier

7. Crazy Wanda/Insane Genis-Vell

8. Atleza/Oblivion

9. White Phoenix of the Crown/Eternity & Infinity/Entropy/Death

10. Rest of the Abstracts and so on...

Originally posted by Mr Master
Added 3 characters to the list: Roma, Wanda and Genis


On the "Current" tip: BASED on FEATS...


1. TOAA/GOD/HOTU (In Power, NOT Authority)

2. Living Tribunal

3. Infinity Gauntlet/Cosmic Containment Units (Potentially)

4. Ultimate Nullifier

5. Abraxas

6. Multi-Eternity/Multi-Infinity (the Multi-verse)

7. Infinites/Makers/Cosmic Containment Units (Unevolved Cosmic Cubes)

7. Roma with the Celestial Nullifier

7. Crazy Wanda

8. Atleza/Oblivion/Insane Genis-Vell

9. White Phoenix of the Crown/Eternity & Infinity/Entropy/Death

10. Rest of the Abstracts and so on...

Thanks for the info Mr Master...I've been wondering about Wanda and Roma for quite a while...so thanks for clearing it up..

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Thanks for the info Mr Master...I've been wondering about Wanda and Roma for quite a while...so thanks for clearing it up..

Yea I was forgetting all about them.

I'm still in the process of dissecting the series (House of M),


Wanda REMADE the 616 Universe more than once.

"Her ability to altar probability got Super charged"
http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/3817/wanda1km4.th.jpg

"She's starting to REMAKE Reality 616... again" (more than once she did it)
http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/4126/wanad2jy7.th.jpg

"You might not even exist anymore in whatever New Reality takers place"
http://img326.imageshack.us/img326/5289/wanda3pi5.th.jpg

"Who knows how she'll change Everything this time"
http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/355/wanda4iu5.th.jpg


Celestial Nullifier

The Celestial Nullifier can erase Universes
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/1429/cnde3.th.jpg
"A few more seconds...and Brane (Universe) 616 will be no more"

Roma protects the Multi-verse, and will not hesitate to sacrifice a Universe
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/553/cn2mu9.th.jpg

Roma gives Universe 616, 48 hours before she'll erase it if....
http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/7376/cn3dv7.th.jpg
"the breach is not closed, I must act, your Entire Plane of being... will be ended"

So technically if Wanda can remake, reshape, destroy, the 616 universe with nothing more then a subconcious thought, then if she were to consciously put all her will and thought into it, could she not reshape, alter, destroy, the megaverse or omniverse?

Originally posted by Jesse7
So technically if Wanda can remake, reshape, destroy, the 616 universe with nothing more then a subconcious thought, then if she were to consciously put all her will and thought into it, could she not reshape, alter, destroy, the megaverse or omniverse?

It makes sense.

But they only gave us that much on panel, anything more is speculation.

The series is better than I thought, still reading it meticulously though.

Mr Master you just anger me for some reason? (no offense) just confused because you have done nothing to me!

Originally posted by Broly92
Mr Master you just anger me for some reason? (no offense)

Balthasar Gracian said,

"success, breeds hate"


Originally posted by Broly92
just confused because you have done nothing to me!

That's cause I'm an angel who harms none.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Balthasar Gracian said,

"success, breeds hate"
The higher the mountain, the bigger the fall.

I always believe that a FP Galactus will be over a evil Molecule Man, and Tru Betonder will be over a evil molecue man.

1.TOAA
2. Living Tribunal
actual appearing people
1. Living Tribunal

Originally posted by Mr Master
Wut up T.


This list is actually ONLY considering Current characters, that's why it has no Pre-retcons in it.


1. TOAA/GOD/HOTU (In Power, NOT Authority)

2. Living Tribunal

3. Infinity Gauntlet/Cosmic Containment Units (Potentially)

4. Ultimate Nullifier

5. Abraxas

6. Multi-Eternity/Multi-Infinity (the Multi-verse)

7. Infinites/Makers/Cosmic Containment Units (Unevolved Cosmic Cubes)

7. Roma with the Celestial Nullifier

7. Crazy Wanda/Insane Genis-Vell

8. Atleza/Oblivion

9. White Phoenix of the Crown/Eternity & Infinity/Entropy/Death

10. Rest of the Abstracts and so on... If you go by feats then Bobby Drake would be ABOVE Oblivion because well he wiped the floor with him.This was BEFORE there was omega mutants too.

Originally posted by superbatman86
If you go by feats then Bobby Drake would be ABOVE Oblivion because well he wiped the floor with him.This was BEFORE there was omega mutants too. but oblivion is a "cosmic anchor of sorts" just like atleza, he is needed in the universe

1.TOAA-If you appear in a non crossover Marvel comic he made you.
2.Thanosw/HOTU
3.Pre-Beyonder/LT-Beyonder had more power than all the multiverse but LT also exests outside Multiverse.
4.Pre-Molucle man
5.FP Galactus(If he absorbs the UN)-An aspect of himself was capable of destroying and recreating the multiverse.
6.IG-On it's own is stronger than UN
7.UN
8.Abraxus
9.Multi-Eternity/Ifinity/Death/Oblivion/FP Galactus-Say whatever you want but Galactus is the balance between life and death.
10.Eternity/Ifinity/Death
11.Other Abstracts/Pheonix of white crown/Normal Galactus.

Originally posted by galan7777777
but oblivion is a "cosmic anchor of sorts" just like atleza, he is needed in the universe That doesn't stop him from getting his ass kicked by a mutant apparantly.

Originally posted by superbatman86
If you go by feats then Bobby Drake would be ABOVE Oblivion because well he wiped the floor with him.This was BEFORE there was omega mutants too.

What issue was this so I can look over it myself?


The real Oblivion operates through avatars now, his existence will be truly for ever.

Oblivion is the embodiment of nothingness, before "God" said, "let there be light", there was only Oblivion.

Originally posted by galan7777777
but oblivion is a "cosmic anchor of sorts" just like atleza, he is needed in the universe

Not exactly.


Oblivion is the great void where everything in the Universes goes when it becomes nothing.


This is what I heard on the subject. (The UN is used as a reference)


"The UN is a part of Galactus.

It is the part of him that exists to maintain the balance between space/time and non-space/time (Infinity and Oblivion).

When you are "hit" by the UN, you are sent to Oblivion's realm.

The Nullifier cannot work on Oblivion (it'd be like trying to drown the ocean), but it can destroy anything from Eternity down"

Which is why I think Maelstrom and Deathurge can't be erased, they are agents of Oblivion. (They're NOT more powerful either, but they CAN'T be erased)

"(as Oblivion is meant to inherit the universe from Eternity, the UN would obviously have the potential to bring forth that which is pre-ordained)."

Originally posted by superbatman86
1.TOAA-If you appear in a non crossover Marvel comic he made you.
2.Thanosw/HOTU
3.Pre-Beyonder/LT-Beyonder had more power than all the multiverse but LT also exests outside Multiverse.
4.Pre-Molucle man
5.FP Galactus(If he absorbs the UN)-An aspect of himself was capable of destroying and recreating the multiverse.
6.IG-On it's own is stronger than UN
7.UN
8.Abraxus
9.Multi-Eternity/Ifinity/Death/Oblivion/FP Galactus-Say whatever you want but Galactus is the balance between life and death.
10.Eternity/Ifinity/Death
11.Other Abstracts/Pheonix of white crown/Normal Galactus.

Pre-Beyonder is ABOVE LT.

FP Galactus CAN NOT absorb the UN.
(Silver Surfer 109, Tyrant, Galactus and his Ship were seemingly eradicated by the UN, when Morg used it)

Multi-Eternity is ABOVE FP Galactus.

Oblivion and Atleza are about the same (she might be slightly above), Oblivion pulls Universes into his void and Atleza anchors the Universe in place, resisting Oblivion's embrace.
http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/7376/adamgoesbtwnuniverses26zw.th.jpg