Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Who wins?

Classic Beyonder.

beyonder

Nothing beats Donny Osmond.

Beyonder turns the Source into toilet paper. By the way, what's "full-power" the Source?
Isn't the Source the same the same thing that Lucifer ignored without consequences?

Originally posted by Astner
Beyonder turns the Source into toilet paper. By the way, what's "full-power" the Source?
Isn't the Source the same the same thing that Lucifer ignored without consequences?
The Source was split in two until recently. Reduced to only half power since the dawn of time. That means that everything he's done up until now was only half powered. Any other supreme beings the beyonder turned into toilet paper? Any one beyond omniversal that the classic beyonder pwned or turned into toilet paper? i seem to remember some multiversal avatars being scared of the beyonder.

"beyond omniversal" the hell?!

no matter where pre-retconn (and pre-depowered) beyonder went, he was omnipotent, only owen reese the other fraction of his leaked power could touch him.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
"beyond omniversal" the hell?!

no matter where pre-retconn (and pre-depowered) beyonder went, he was omnipotent, only owen reese the other fraction of his leaked power could touch him.
The Source, at FP, besides being omnipotent, is basically omnipresent and omniscient.
Aspects that The Beyonder does not have.

In other words, The Source is an aspect of The Presence itself.
The others being The Word, The Light, GEB, Elaine, and The Spectre.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
The Source, at FP, besides being omnipotent, is basically omnipresent and omniscient.
Aspects that The Beyonder does not have.

In other words, The Source is an aspect of The Presence itself.
The others being The Word, The Light, GEB, Elaine, and The Spectre. All play a role in the grand design the Presence made but does not make them equal in power just because they play certain function. clearly showing difference in level of power each of those char you listed.

Can the Presence give the power to beat beyonder? Sure but that would make all these battle Presence vs X

Yo.

if there's atleast 1 other person who can match a being power-for-power, then that 1st person cannot claim to being omnipotent.




Tazer

Originally posted by kgkg
All play a role in the grand design the Presence made but does not make them equal in power just because they play certain function. clearly showing difference in level of power each of those char you listed.

Can the Presence give the power to beat beyonder? Sure but that would make all these battle Presence vs X
Then you admit that The Source >>> Beyonder.
Since The Beyonder does NOT play any role in the grand design of TOAA.

MU can continue to exist without The Beyonder, whilst DCU cannot without The Source.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
Then you admit that The Source >>> Beyonder.
Since The Beyonder does NOT play any role in the grand design of TOAA.

MU can continue to exist without The Beyonder, whilst DCU cannot without The Source. I see what you are saying but Marvel would not exist without the Living Tribunal and the Cosmic forces and classic Beyonder > LT and everyone else introduced at that point in time.

by now everyone should at least recognize that these types of arguments go nowhere, whats the point of pitting to abstracts/cosmic entities against each other?

Originally posted by kgkg
I see what you are saying but Marvel would not exist without the Living Tribunal and the Cosmic forces and classic Beyonder > LT and everyone else introduced at that point in time.
But it has already been clarified that
The Source >>> The Beyonder
since MU can continue to exist w/o The Beyonder, has it not?

I can see the point you are implying, but the MU Abstracts are irrelevant to this thread.
We are strictly talking about The Beyonder and The Source.

The Source powers everything there is in DC. And he's been doing it at HALF his power!!!

Now we are talking about FP The Source.
And THAT is a s***load of power to begin with.

Nearly everything Beyonder did, he did while limiting himself, and he was still more powerful than everything and anything in Marvel.

if they are both all powerful then it is a stalemate

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Nearly everything Beyonder did, he did while limiting himself, and he was still more powerful than everything and anything in Marvel.
And everything that The Source did since the beginning of time empowering the whole DCU, he did while limiting himself.

Originally posted by bbrem123
if they are both all powerful then it is a stalemate

The classic Beyonder Wasn't all powerful. As a property of Marvel, he is still below the TOAA. And We all know that the beyonder DID not create the marvel multiverse. So how can he be all powerful if he didn't create nor sustain someone elses back yard.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
And everything that The Source did since the beginning of time empowering the whole DCU, he did while limiting himself.
He was at half power.

Beyonder was a fraction of his normal power.

Beyonder was all powerful, as confirmed by Jim Shooter.

If I remember right, he eventually embodied all of the Marvel Prime Multiverse as well, in due time.

IF you say that cause he did not create Marvel Mutliverse he can't be all powerful, think of it like this, Beyonder was supreme being in a totally separate verse from Marvel, then Owen Reece somehow blew a hole into the verse, connecting them. Then, Beyonder in turn spread his supremity to Marvel. That's how I see it personally.

Oh, and if I recall right, TOAA technically did not exist back then, the concept of TOAA was not invented til later.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
He was at half power.

Beyonder was a fraction of his normal power.

Beyonder was all powerful, as confirmed by Jim Shooter.

If I remember right, he eventually embodied all of the Marvel Prime Multiverse as well, in due time.

IF you say that cause he did not create Marvel Mutliverse he can't be all powerful, think of it like this, Beyonder was supreme being in a totally separate verse from Marvel, then Owen Reece somehow blew a hole into the verse, connecting them. Then, Beyonder in turn spread his supremity to Marvel. That's how I see it personally.

Oh, and if I recall right, TOAA technically did not exist back then, the concept of TOAA was not invented til later.
This is just all a hoot to me. The LT has always worked for the one above all. Just becuz we didn't know it means nothing. His bio doesn't say the one above all became his boss. No.

The beyonder couldn't have been all powerful from another reality when he's a marvel character. He wasn't from some seperate comic company and then all of a sudden he oozed in.

Oh and technically wouldn't all that the beyonder used to be, now be the marvel omniverse that the LT is actually more powerful than?

Originally posted by fangirl101
This is just all a hoot to me. The LT has always worked for the one above all. Just becuz we didn't know it means nothing. His bio doesn't say the one above all became his boss. No.

The beyonder couldn't have been all powerful from another reality when he's a marvel character. He wasn't from some seperate comic company and then all of a sudden he oozed in.

Oh and technically wouldn't all that the beyonder used to be, now be the marvel omniverse that the LT is actually more powerful than? 1. It was revealed that the LT worked for him, but the concept of the TOAA was not invented until after PR Beyonder's time or LT's appearance.

2. For the sake of a storyline, why couldn't he be?

3. Possibly. In size maybe. But in power, at least 90% of all the power in Marvel is in the Prime Multiverse, which Beyonder was much more powerful than.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. It was revealed that the LT worked for him, but the concept of the TOAA was not invented until after PR Beyonder's time or LT's appearance.

2. For the sake of a storyline, why couldn't he be?

3. Possibly. In size maybe. But in power, at least 90% of all the power in Marvel is in the Prime Multiverse, which Beyonder was much more powerful than.
Where does this say that 90% of all marvel power resides in the one universe? Is this a statement on panel? How can this be when the LT exist in all multiverses simultaneously. He is more than the marvel multiverse alone and he exist in them all at the same time. So if the concept of the one above was not invented until after the pr's time, that would mean that the lt was only a multiversal being then and that the beyonder really only punked a multiversal being. He has no omniversal feats, no supreme authority over everything. now does he.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
Then you admit that The Source >>> Beyonder.
Since The Beyonder does NOT play any role in the grand design of TOAA.

MU can continue to exist without The Beyonder, whilst DCU cannot without The Source.

That's a non sequitur. Simply because a universe can exist without something, while another can't, doesn't prove that one is more powerful than the other. At all.

Especially when the Beyonder is BEYOND/OUTSIDE the mainstream Marvel Universe by his very nature.

Darkseid stalemated FP Source. He was created by The Source. So saying that just because A2 was created by A1, that A1 will always be the stronger, isn't correct at all. As was shown in DOTNGs.

Besides, DCU can't exist without Superman (I think). Does that mean he's more powerful than Eradicator? Of course not. Is Eradicator a created/artificial being? Yes. Is Eradicator's existence necessary for DCU to continue? Nope.

The Source as a combatant has virtually no feats, and any reality warping and creation of life feat he's accomplished The Beyonder has matched on panel and done it better. I give the win to Beyonder until The Source shows some...I don't know, backbone?

Source has been ignored before. Beyonder 1 shots.

Originally posted by Enyalus
That's a non sequitur. Simply because a universe can exist without something, while another can't, doesn't prove that one is more powerful than the other. At all.

Especially when the Beyonder is BEYOND/OUTSIDE the mainstream Marvel Universe by his very nature.

Darkseid stalemated FP Source. He was created by The Source. So saying that just because A2 was created by A1, that A1 will always be the stronger, isn't correct at all. As was shown in DOTNGs.

Besides, DCU can't exist without Superman (I think). Does that mean he's more powerful than Eradicator? Of course not. Is Eradicator a created/artificial being? Yes. Is Eradicator's existence necessary for DCU to continue? Nope.

The Source as a combatant has virtually no feats, and any reality warping and creation of life feat he's accomplished The Beyonder has matched on panel and done it better. I give the win to Beyonder until The Source shows some...I don't know, backbone?

Game, Set, Match.

Well said.

Originally posted by Enyalus

Darkseid stalemated FP Source. He was created by The Source. So saying that just because A2 was created by A1, that A1 will always be the stronger, isn't correct at all. As was shown in DOTNGs.

The Source can't possibly win when he's fighting against his OWN power


In addition, Darksied was also amped by the elder gods and his own power.