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In the jungle.

How does this go?

Which Herc? Standard, "Immortal" version?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Which Herc? Standard, "Immortal" version? Full power but without the mace.

Really?

Okay.

I imagine the duo could wear him out, eventually. We know for a fact that Herc doesn't enjoy getting hit by Cap's shield and Batman carries tons of gadgets. That utility belt is the next best thing to toonforce pockets...

Wow, this is one sided. Hercules claps and the team is crushed by several trees.

Don't believe he has any t-clap feats of that magnitude...

In a forum fight Hercules cant lose this.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Don't believe he has any t-clap feats of that magnitude...
He does. Can't remember the issue but it was a mid 80s Avengers issue when the quinjet was stuck in a massive vortex. He thunderclapped and destroyed the vortex.

As to the thread, he wins.

EDIT FOUND IT -
https://s9.postimg.org/stavcpzfv/image.jpg https://s9.postimg.org/4qu1huisr/image.jpg https://s9.postimg.org/5hmrnml63/image.jpg https://s9.postimg.org/4gmiyi46j/image.jpg

Remember what happened when DD threw Cap's shield...?

Originally posted by zopzop

EDIT FOUND IT -
https://s9.postimg.org/stavcpzfv/image.jpg https://s9.postimg.org/4qu1huisr/image.jpg https://s9.postimg.org/5hmrnml63/image.jpg https://s9.postimg.org/4gmiyi46j/image.jpg

Ah, THIS one.

IF A BLOW IS NEEDED... haermm haermm haermm

Sorry, zop. Read the rules. KMC is PG-13. You can't use this feat here...

Herc makes like paul bunyan and buries them under several million tree's.

hmmm cap's shield combined with the all powerful batkick=herc losing

Herc stomps.

Originally posted by deathslash
Wow, this is one sided. Hercules claps and the team is crushed by several trees. What's the best thunderclap feat that Hercules has?

Originally posted by zopzop
He does. Can't remember the issue but it was a mid 80s Avengers issue when the quinjet was stuck in a massive vortex. He thunderclapped and destroyed the vortex.

As to the thread, he wins.

EDIT FOUND IT -
https://s9.postimg.org/stavcpzfv/image.jpg https://s9.postimg.org/4qu1huisr/image.jpg https://s9.postimg.org/5hmrnml63/image.jpg https://s9.postimg.org/4gmiyi46j/image.jpg Is that the only instance of him ever using it? Has he ever used it in a fight?

They're in a jungle.

That hurts Batman and Cap way more then it does Herc. They'll have more trouble manuvering, while Herc could just uproot/knock over everything about him, kicking up that much more debris for them to deal with.

team dies nearly every time. gas might worked to scrape out a win somewhere, but its their only real hope.

Originally posted by cdtm
They're in a jungle.

That hurts Batman and Cap way more then it does Herc. They'll have more trouble manuvering, while Herc could just uproot/knock over everything about him, kicking up that much more debris for them to deal with. The stealthiest character in DCU is at a disadvantage in a forrest? Where he could easily practice hit and run, without Hercules having any idea where it's coming from?

Maybe if he was human, instead of a mountain lifter.

Unless you think they can one shot KO him, their first attack should be their last. Jungles are full of trees and all kinds of vegetation, which will get in their way but be something he can plow through like it doesn't exist.

If they, say, leap up a tree to avoid him, he just kicks the tree halfway around the world.

Originally posted by cdtm
Maybe if he was human, instead of a mountain lifter.

Unless you think they can one shot KO him, their first attack should be their last. What does him being a mountain lifter have to do with stealth?

They don't need to KO him with the first attack.

Originally posted by cdtm
If they, say, leap up a tree to avoid him, he just kicks the tree halfway around the world. By the time he realizes where the attack comes from, they're already gone from that place.

That's how stealth works, you know?

Their first attack alerts him to their position.

Then he hits them with a tree. Harder to dodge a tree then a fist.

Originally posted by cdtm
Their first attack alerts him to their position.

Then he hits them with a tree. Harder to dodge a tree then a fist. They attack and move from their position.

Batman has disappeared in seconds from Superman, Flash and more.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batstealthflash2.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batstealthflash3.jpg

Tell me, is Hercules faster than Jay Garrick?

And Bat's toys would only make it worse. Smoke bombs, tear gas, sticky goo on Herc's face (no, not that...)... and that's just his most standard equip, nothing exotic.

Is Superman knocking over buildings?

Because if he was, Batman couldn't "stealth" his way out of that. A bloodlusted Supes means that dark corner of a building he's in is flying to the moon.

That's why I say the jungle is a detriment to the human/meta characters. Herc could simply keep throwing large objects in every direction, and he'll eventually get them.

Conversely, those same trees/vegetation will limit their mobility. A tree = cover + weapon for Herc, because he can kick it over and they can't.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
And Bat's toys would only make it worse. Smoke bombs, tear gas, sticky goo on Herc's face (no, not that...)... and that's just his most standard equip, nothing exotic.

He'd get spammed with all sorts of gas/bombs/shield hits, all the time, while having zero visibility and awareness from where his adversary is.

Originally posted by cdtm
Herc could simply keep throwing large objects in every direction, and he'll eventually get them. Hercules doesn't have super speed to simultaneously throw trees in every possibly direction. They could simply look at him, predict where he'd throw and get out of the way. They have range, Hercules doesn't, except what he finds around

Originally posted by cdtm
Conversely, those same trees/vegetation will limit their mobility. A tree = cover + weapon for Herc, because he can kick it over and they can't. Trees/vegeation is ridiculously helpful as far as stealth goes. There's hundreds of trees in a square mile, and Hercules has no idea where they are. What, he just picks a random tree hoping they're there? While being hit from multiple directions? And blinded with gas?

Herc smashes clear a clearing, Batman has to be careful of wood missiles, Cap has his shield. Then Herc punts them both into mist with a tree trunk.
Herc doesn't care about Batman's vanishing skills. Hercs not DC, so he's not going to humour that shit.

Sentence structure reads weird... Hooray for alcohol

Originally posted by emu
Herc smashes clear a clearing, Batman has to be careful of wood missiles, Cap has his shield. Then Herc punts them both into mist with a tree trunk.
Herc doesn't care about Batman's vanishing skills. Hercs not DC, so he's not going to humour that shit.

Sentence structure reads weird... Hooray for alcohol
"Ok guys, so Batman is the only one without powers so let's make him feel important."

"But Superman, how do we do that?"

"You know stupid 'vanish into thin air' thing that we all used to pretend he can do as a joke? Let's play it up and make it seem like none of us can find him."

"Like reverse hide and seek?"

"Exactly."

what's to keep him from literally clearing a massive area all around him by simply flattening his surroundings? he'd take hits but he has some very good durability feats. the shield would be useless except to annoy him. there is certainly a chance he could actually grab it or use it at some point as well. i would see him getting po'd, grabbing tree after tree and creating a huge open area for himself to limit their ranged stuff. by simply smashing random trees and tossing them haphazardly, there is a very good chance he could take out one or both. there just isn't a viable way for them to put him down. spidey almost broke his fists hitting him. pool stabbed him in both eyes. all those things do is irritate him. bats weapons would be the only chance, and as standard equipment he doesn't generally carry herald-busting stuff. they could hassle him for a long while but in the end they'd tire or run out of tricks and that would be that imo. he also doesn't thunderclap often, but has done so on a couple occasions, and he's also shockwaved a couple times.

Originally posted by deathslash
gas is going to work on Hercules now? That's like saying pepper spray will affect Superman.

Unlike Supes, Herc doesn't have the x-ray vision or any sort of enhanced vision.

And Hercules has been koed by gas before.

Originally posted by deathslash
gas is going to work on Hercules now? That's like saying pepper spray will affect Superman. Reduces visibility. He can use flash bangs to blind him for extended periods of time. Also, Hercules is not Superman. But if you want Superman, here he is being blinded:
http://s289.photobucket.com/user/darknight2k/media/Standard%20Advanced%20Prep%20Time/supermanamericanalien4-batmanvclarkkent5.jpg.html

Originally posted by deathslash
What bombs does Batman actually carry around on average that gives him the ability to even make Hercules notice?
You mean like a Batarangs that outperform Heat Vision + Green Lantern Energy and more?

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batfuserang1.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batfuserang2.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batfuserang3.jpg

Here he is putting Captain Nazi down with exploding batarangs and getting ready to finish him :
http://s289.photobucket.com/user/darknight2k/media/bat%20pics%202/batredhoodvsocietyvillains1b.jpg.html
http://s289.photobucket.com/user/darknight2k/media/bat%20pics%202/batredhoodvsocietyvillains1c.jpg.html

Destroying Doomsday clones:
http://s289.photobucket.com/user/darknight2k/media/Mobs-Teams/Battle%20Tactics/supermanbatman10-batbombsvsdoomclones.jpg.html

He has Batarangs capable of KOing Grundy:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batazerang1.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batazerang2.jpg

lol@ Hercules taking notice. You know shit about Batman.

You also forgot Captain America. Batman is not alone here.

Originally posted by deathslash
How is the team fighting smart and yet Hercules is just lumbering around getting attacked from all directions? Hercules IS a lumbering brick, going up against top-tier tactically, top-tier stealthy, top-end combatants.

when necessary herc is more than a lumbering brick. we've seen how smart he can fight on a number of occasions when his power levels have fluctuated. he's very skilled and is by no means dumb....

Originally posted by leonidas
when necessary herc is more than a lumbering brick. we've seen how smart he can fight on a number of occasions when his power levels have fluctuated. he's very skilled and is by no means dumb.... Never said he is dumb, just that he is a lumbering brick - which he is. No flight, no superspeed, no x-ray vision, no nothing. He is nowhere near the smart fighters Cap/Batman are, either. The fact that his only change is to randomly throw trees hoping he hits opponents that he has no idea the location of is quite telling.

@phil well, he has pretty limited options. he's in a forest fighting what is effectively guerilla warfare with no weapons. there are only so many ways TO fight this. randomly throwing trees and clearing an area for line of sight probably IS the best way for him to go about this. not sure what else he can do that would be considered 'smart'. randomness would be the intelligent move, taking away their advantages. he could shockwave and simply hurl hundreds of thousands of tons of earth and rock around as well, pulverize huge pieces of earth and have the debris scour the area like thousands of bullets as well. he can also jump to try and gain some sight advantage, but not sure that would help unless he cleared some space for himself. he has some options here, but sometimes simple is the most effective. /shrug

Originally posted by deathslash
every feat there with the exclusion of the first scan is from pre flashpoint. Show me something from new 52 (the version that we're talking about) or drop it.
Batman kept most of his continuity in New 52, the same as Green Lanterns. The fact that you're running behind 'it's not canon now' is an admission of defeat.

Originally posted by deathslash
Hercules is a "lumbering brick" that currently uses modern weaponry in addition to his old weapons and is skilled enough to fight metas even when he didn't have his powers. Batman throws an explosive and a second later the tree that he was standing in gets blown up by an RPG shot. Haha, now you're just going full retard. Hercules in this thread is in his classic incarnation, not armed with goddamn RPG's.

Go away, dummy.

Originally posted by leonidas
@phil well, he has pretty limited options. he's in a forest fighting what is effectively guerilla warfare with no weapons. there are only so many ways TO fight this. randomly throwing trees and clearing an area for line of sight probably IS the best way for him to go about this. not sure what else he can do that would be considered 'smart'. randomness would be the intelligent move, taking away their advantages. he could shockwave and simply hurl hundreds of thousands of tons of earth and rock around as well, pulverize huge pieces of earth and have the debris scour the area like thousands of bullets as well. he can also jump to try and gain some sight advantage, but not sure that would help unless he cleared some space for himself. he has some options here, but sometimes simple is the most effective. /shrug The fact that he has pretty limited options is exactly my point. He can't teleport the whole forrest away - even if he starts taking down some trees , then what? The terrain doesn't suddenly become smooth and flat. The actual torn down trees/areas/rocks are still there to move around behind, while Hercules can't see shit. Hitting the ground doesn't suddenly generate 360 degree uniform bullet-like debris, not to mention that the shield can protect both Cap and Batman . Or they can simply dodge it . Or take covers between other stuff. Plenty of scenarios in which they don't get hit,nevermind KO.

If Hercules strategy is that he randomly hits the ground and throws trees at targets that he can't see, in the hopes that there's the off-chance they're hit and KO, and this happens the majority of time, it's simply wishful thinking.

Originally posted by deathslash

"Ok guys, so Batman is the only one without powers so let's make him feel important."

"But Superman, how do we do that?"

"You know stupid 'vanish into thin air' thing that we all used to pretend he can do as a joke? Let's play it up and make it seem like none of us can find him."

"Like reverse hide and seek?"

"Exactly." There's batarangs that outperform supes HV and GL energy being mentioned now....

Batman kills half the world bcause his batarangs. Ends on an awesome note, no one knows what the f*ck happened because of herald wrecking stealth.

Does anyone argue a normal Batman anymore?

Originally posted by emu
Does anyone argue a normal Batman anymore?

Define a "normal" Batman.

Even in his own corner of DC Universe, he does stuff like headbutting Bane to KO...

Originally posted by leonidas
what's to keep him from literally clearing a massive area all around him by simply flattening his surroundings? he'd take hits but he has some very good durability feats. the shield would be useless except to annoy him. there is certainly a chance he could actually grab it or use it at some point as well. i would see him getting po'd, grabbing tree after tree and creating a huge open area for himself to limit their ranged stuff. by simply smashing random trees and tossing them haphazardly, there is a very good chance he could take out one or both. there just isn't a viable way for them to put him down. spidey almost broke his fists hitting him. pool stabbed him in both eyes. all those things do is irritate him. bats weapons would be the only chance, and as standard equipment he doesn't carry herald-busting stuff. they could hassle him for a long while but in the end they'd tire or run out of tricks and that would be that imo. he also doesn't thunderclap often, but has done so on a couple occasions, and he's also shockwaved a couple times.

I see it like Guts vs the guy with the feather duster in Berserk, in the area with the pillers.

The quick guy was nimble enough to avoid him, but he just kept on cutting the pillers down. Eventually, he cleared the area.

Philo also seems to be assuming the team will fight smart, while Herc will stand there aimlessly. He can do things to minimize his vulnerabilities... Even something as simple as carrying around one/two large objects as makeshift shields and limiting the directions they can come at him.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Define a "normal" Batman.

Even in his own corner of DC Universe, he does stuff like headbutting Bane to KO...
Facing Herc? Break out the HV, GL killing batarangs.

Batman's utility belt needs to stop being kmc's wonder weapon.
Define the belt by averages, we get the real Batman.

As it is, there's no Batman that beats Herc. Lol at a forest making a difference. No bias, because Cap dies too.

Originally posted by cdtm
Philo also seems to be assuming the team will fight smart, while Herc will stand there aimlessly. Stop strawmanning my position, like a cowardly moron.

I never said Hercules was standing there doing nothing - I accepted all possibilities that has been argued for him in this thread (throwing trees, trashing the forrest) and argued against them.

Originally posted by cdtm
Even something as simple as carrying around one/two large objects as makeshift shields and limiting the directions they can come at him. What are those mythical shield-like objects found in a forrest that somehow limit the impact of attacks that can hurt top-tiers? Adamantium trees? Vibranium stones?

And wasn't Hercules throwing trees around blindly, or have we simply abandoned that? Now he has two shields? Is he holding them on his dick?

Can you present a coherent argument, or are you simply throwing shit at the wall and hoping something sticks?

Calling Herc a lumbering brick, and claiming that his only options are "randomly throwing stuff" are your words, no?

Claiming Cap and Batman will strike, fade away, then strike again is what you've argued, no?

I'm saying Herc is smarter then that. Even in his classic incarnation. He was smart enough to try incapacitating Hulk by opening up a mountain, and pulling it in around him.. That's a bit more then "lumbering brawler" tactics.

He can limit Cap and Bat's options, actively putting up obstacles, establishing choke points, ect.. He has the feats to support out of the box thinking beyond "hit someone".

Hercules blitzes them.

Originally posted by cdtm
Calling Herc a lumbering brick, and claiming that his only options are "randomly throwing stuff" are your words, no? Herc IS a limited brick, and you'd be quite wrong to argue otherwise. Throwing trees and trashing the forrest are the only arguments presented up until now, and even Leo has admitted that he is limited in what he can do.

Originally posted by cdtm
Claiming Cap and Batman will strike, fade away, then strike again is what you've argued, no? Yes.

Originally posted by cdtm
I'm saying Herc is smarter then that. Even in his classic incarnation. He was smart enough to try incapacitating Hulk by opening up a mountain, and pulling it in around him.. That's a bit more then "lumbering brawler" tactics.

He can limit Cap and Bat's options, actively putting up obstacles, establishing choke points, ect.. He has the feats to support out of the box thinking beyond "hit someone". Hulk is a dumb brick, Batman and Cap are literally the opposite of that. If you think Hercules will tactically outwit Batman and Captain America, you're out of your mind.

I'm waiting for options on what he can do - you've given me throwing shit and making shields out of trees/stones, and you're crying like a baby on how I think Hercules is dumb. No, you are dumb if all you can do is say he throws shit and hopes for the best.

Hercules doesn't know where they are, he gets spammed with gas grenades, flashbangs, toxins, transqulizers, sonics, electrocution, explosives that are capable of operating at top-tier levels, shield throws, batarangs to the eyes etc.

Even IF Herc throws trees - he's going up against guys who do nothing but predict how flying objects behave. Be it bullets, batarangs, or shields, Cap and Bats have tons of experience in dodging flying projectiles/predicting flight paths.

Don't make me bust that WW scan out AGAIN.

..@ Phil,

Nearly every weapon Batman has, he has to throw.
Cap has a shield ffs lol.
Sounds like the same tactics you laugh at Herc using.

Herc isn't stupid, and how smart do you have to be anyway?
Uproot a twenty ton tree and swing the bloody thing.

Originally posted by deathslash
every feat there with the exclusion of the first scan is from pre flashpoint. Show me something from new 52 (the version that we're talking about) or drop it.

Hercules is a "lumbering brick" that currently uses modern weaponry in addition to his old weapons and is skilled enough to fight metas even when he didn't have his powers. Batman throws an explosive and a second later the tree that he was standing in gets blown up by an RPG shot. Cap throws his shield, and before it returns to him, he gets M60 rounds flying at him for his efforts. By the way, Hercules is definitely fast enough to catch caps shield and throw it far enough away for cap to be useless.

Tasers that stun Superman:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Standard%20Advanced%20Prep%20Time/batmansuperman15-batazervsuperman.jpg

Explosives that move Superman(note how tiny that little 'rang is):
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Strategy-Tactics/Solo%20Battles/batmansuperman1-batmanvsuperman6.jpg

Flashbangs that stun Supes, too:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Standard%20Advanced%20Prep%20Time/supermanamericanalien4-batmanvclarkkent5.jpg

All new 52.

Stealth?

He's attacked, then disappeared from, Andrew Bennett, a powerful vampire (who, one hopes, is pretty good with darkness):
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Stealth/ivampire5-batvamp2.jpg

Against a human, true, but damn - he was actually LOOKING at him:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Stealth/thedarknight3-forbes.jpg

Against Superman, Catwoman, and Lois Lane - WHILST THEY'RE LOOKING AT HIM IN BROAD DAYLIGHT:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Stealth/batmansuperman15-batstealth.jpg

Superman again:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Stealth/batman20-superbatstealth.jpg

Against Gotham AND Gotham Girl, despite them using Ultra Vision to actively search for him, and despite looking at him:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Stealth/batman2-batmangothamstealth3.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Stealth/batman2-batmangothamstealth4.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Stealth/batman2-batmangothamstealth5.jpg

All New 52.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Even IF Herc throws trees - he's going up against guys who do nothing but predict how flying objects behave. Be it bullets, batarangs, or shields, Cap and Bats have tons of experience in dodging flying projectiles/predicting flight paths.

Don't make me bust that WW scan out AGAIN. A tree thrown by Herc doesn't have to hit. There's a lot of collateral damage.
Other trees splitting, splinters the size of branches, there's a LOT of ammunition for Herc. A LOT of dodging, in a forest, for Cap and Batman. And you cant go on offence when you're dodging a forest, and trees flying at you thrown with the speed of Herc's strength.

Originally posted by cdtm
I see it like Guts vs the guy with the feather duster in Berserk, in the area with the pillers.

The quick guy was nimble enough to avoid him, but he just kept on cutting the pillers down. Eventually, he cleared the area.

Philo also seems to be assuming the team will fight smart, while Herc will stand there aimlessly. He can do things to minimize his vulnerabilities... Even something as simple as carrying around one/two large objects as makeshift shields and limiting the directions they can come at him. all that i got from your post is that you read berserk and are therefore far more awesome than I previously thought.

Also, philo's wrong,

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Even IF Herc throws trees - he's going up against guys who do nothing but predict how flying objects behave. Be it bullets, batarangs, or shields, Cap and Bats have tons of experience in dodging flying projectiles/predicting flight paths.

Don't make me bust that WW scan out AGAIN. Not to mention Hercules doesn't know where they are.

Originally posted by cdtm
I see it like Guts vs the guy with the feather duster in Berserk, in the area with the pillers.

The quick guy was nimble enough to avoid him, but he just kept on cutting the pillers down. Eventually, he cleared the area.

Philo also seems to be assuming the team will fight smart, while Herc will stand there aimlessly. He can do things to minimize his vulnerabilities... Even something as simple as carrying around one/two large objects as makeshift shields and limiting the directions they can come at him.

There's a world of difference between the scenarios. The pillars made it difficult for Guts to swing his sword, but they didn't provide Serpico with anywhere to hide, plus Guts wasn't just stronger than him, he was faster, smarter, with a better arsenal, and much more skilled, a veteran of war since he was 3, while Serpico was a rich kid with some dueling experience. Pretty much all of the advantages Guts had, belong to Batman and Captain America here, sans strength. Strength isn't enough, team wins.

So what, Batman is Low herald in attack capacity now?

Thunder clap. Ground shockwaves. Use trees. Two streets(low meta at best) is not getting a majority over Hercules.

And lol at the usual "your a moron", "your a dummy", "your a retard", "your a coward" schtick.

Smh... His go to stick up ure @$$ move.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Even IF Herc throws trees - he's going up against guys who do nothing but predict how flying objects behave. Be it bullets, batarangs, or shields, Cap and Bats have tons of experience in dodging flying projectiles/predicting flight paths.

Don't make me bust that WW scan out AGAIN.

Very true.

Now lets see scans of them dodging moons.

That's the point I'm getting at. If Superman and Plutonian fought in a city, Batman would need to dodge an island, bare minimum. Maybe he can, he IS Batman.

And while Herc is no Plutonian, he can upend THE ENTIRE BATTLEFIELD. Literally.

He can just rip a mountain sized chunk of the ground and dump it over, if that's what it took.

How the phuck is this still going on? How are two human beings (one of them peak) going to take down a low herald in a jungle setting? If anything THEY are the ones that are screwed because the heat and humidity in a jungle setting would wear them down while Hercules would be immune.

^^pretty much. I just assumed anyone voting for the team was trolling.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
^^pretty much. I just assumed anyone voting for the team was trolling. never doubt the DC lovers. They can prove that Batman can consistently damage heralds, dodge light speed attacks, tanks hits from skyfathers, and is smart enough to beat Reed Richards, Doctor Doom, and The Doctor all in a prep battle.

It also helps that Hercules is apparently going to stand there and let them hit him while they strike from the shadows like silent commando ninja assassin's.

One of the strongest and most durable Heralds in comics vs two meta's. Hhhhmmm, I don't know who to give the nod too.

Originally posted by cdtm
Very true.

Now lets see scans of them dodging moons.

That's the point I'm getting at. If Superman and Plutonian fought in a city, Batman would need to dodge an island, bare minimum. Maybe he can, he IS Batman.

And while Herc is no Plutonian, he can upend THE ENTIRE BATTLEFIELD. Literally.

He can just rip a mountain sized chunk of the ground and dump it over, if that's what it took.

Based on what?

Because if you are relying on the scan of him upending Manhattan - see the very next few panels, which are often missed out (I wonder why??)

http://13thdimension.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/9g-thor356.jpg

Originally posted by deathslash
never doubt the DC lovers. They can prove that Batman can consistently damage heralds, dodge light speed attacks, tanks hits from skyfathers, and is smart enough to beat Reed Richards, Doctor Doom, and The Doctor all in a prep battle.

It also helps that Hercules is apparently going to stand there and let them hit him while they strike from the shadows like silent commando ninja assassin's.

Isn't a silent commando ninja assassin - almost exactly what Batman is???

And yeah. I've shown multiple instances of Nu-52 Bats doing what no human can do. Dodging Ultra Vision, Superman, affecting Superman with his weaponry, taking hits from WW etc...

It's not like I'm even using feats from 1970 or some wacky Silver Age story, either. These are all from comics where the issue numbers are still in double digits, lol, from the past 10 years.

Originally posted by carver9
One of the strongest and most durable Heralds in comics vs two meta's. Hhhhmmm, I don't know who to give the nod too.

Well...

Originally posted by carver9
I already know the answer. I focus on combat showings but I'm trying to see if others are on the same page.

By combat showings, Batman and Cap are WAAAAAY up there.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Based on what?

Because if you are relying on the scan of him upending Manhattan - see the very next few panels, which are often missed out (I wonder why??)

And the Manhattan pulling feat was revealed to be BS, too. To a lesser extent, as it happened, but he didn't pull shit, he just asborbed the shockwaves.

That leaves Herc with the Atlas feat as his best... and it cannot be quanitified.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
And the Manhattan pulling feat was revealed to be BS, too. To a lesser extent, as it happened, but he didn't pull shit, he just asborbed the shockwaves.

That leaves Herc with the Atlas feat as his best... and it cannot be quanitified.

I believe it was me who broke that story on KMC.

Yeah, I believe so. Another myth busted

It was hilarious to see leo's disappointed face... I heard he tore all of his Herc posters from the walls in his bedroom.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Based on what?

Because if you are relying on the scan of him upending Manhattan - see the very next few panels, which are often missed out (I wonder why??)

http://13thdimension.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/9g-thor356.jpg



Isn't a silent commando ninja assassin - almost exactly what Batman is???

And yeah. I've shown multiple instances of Nu-52 Bats doing what no human can do. Dodging Ultra Vision, Superman, affecting Superman with his weaponry, taking hits from WW etc...

It's not like I'm even using feats from 1970 or some wacky Silver Age story, either. These are all from comics where the issue numbers are still in double digits, lol, from the past 10 years.



Well...



By combat showings, Batman and Cap are WAAAAAY up there.
A forest is no Manhattan, so ctdm's strategy would be easy work.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
And the Manhattan pulling feat was revealed to be BS, too. To a lesser extent, as it happened, but he didn't pull shit, he just asborbed the shockwaves.

That leaves Herc with the Atlas feat as his best... and it cannot be quanitified.
What's that have to do with Herc busting a forest into shrapnel?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
And the Manhattan pulling feat was revealed to be BS, too. To a lesser extent, as it happened, but he didn't pull shit, he just asborbed the shockwaves.

That leaves Herc with the Atlas feat as his best... and it cannot be quanitified.

Bah, he doesn't even need that.

Ripping open a mountain and placing Hulk in is quite enough here. If he can't lift a city, he can certainly lift a small island and enough area to catch them on it, then dump. Even near featless DC Thor did this much to Barda in one of the New God lines (I think Byrne's JK4W)

(Also, ftr, Herc caught Godzilla's heel and dumped her on on her butt. I'd say that ranks up there.)

cdtm.

Sorry for misspelling.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/144952/4654053-2180368-hercules___holding_manhattan_together.jpg

Carver,your scan is completely useless lol.

The original post was about lifting an island/city.

You then come up with....what?

Lol. Hush up, the grown-ups are talking.

Also seen someone say Bats will throw stuff in Herc eyes. Not going to work...

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/144952/4653819-3191186-durability.jpg

So Batman is now going to not throw Batarangs, but will instead throw his entire body at Herc?

Despite possessing one of the most strategic brains in DC,AND the benefit of Cap (who knows Herc well) on his team???

Idiocy.

Carver, just stop. It's embarrassing at this point.

Oh, jesus..

May as well conceed right now.

Again why are people talking about Hercules' "Manhattan feats" as if he'd need anything near that level to destroy these two?

Let's recap : Two human beings (one of them an extremely low level meta human) are fighting against an elite low herald immortal in a SWELTERING jungle while covered in heavy clothing.

Hercules wins. End of thread.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So Batman is now going to not throw Batarangs, but will instead throw his entire body at Herc?

Despite possessing one of the most strategic brains in DC,AND the benefit of Cap (who knows Herc well) on his team???

Idiocy.

Carver, just stop. It's embarrassing at this point.
Swap the two for a couple of hand ninjas.
They'll do just as well for all the dues you're giving Herc here.

The Manhattan showing was brought up because Herc was going to throw the entire continent/moon or whatever away.

Hand ninjas don't have the consistent feats Bats and Cap have.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Yeah, I believe so. Another myth busted

It was hilarious to see leo's disappointed face... I heard he tore all of his Herc posters from the walls in his bedroom.

pfft that hulk scan never says he didn't pull the city and some editorial comment posted later isn't actual confirmation either. at best the feat is ambiguous, nor was it ever something i put a great deal of stock in anyway. it never made tons of sense and he's held the heavens anyway, so the feat is small taters relatively. there are many arguments to be had against what, if true, is one of the weakest retcons ever. and again, even supposing the retcon is what it seems, it simply becomes a great durability feat instead of strength--absorbing the powers of an earthquake that would have shatter manhattan is fantastic. herc wins either way.

anyway, as regards this thread--i do note a generally tendancy to look at many of bats' high end tech feats. i'm not going to show a bunch of scans that show his weaponry isn't always shown to be capable of hurting superman....though i do wonder how superman being harmed by bats' toys would play out in a superman thread. /shrug

herc has withstood lightning bolts from thor and zeus, and walked through blasts from the skrull god kly'bn. even if he didn't pull manhattan, he's been shown holding it in place and keeping it from being torn in half. could some of bats high end stuff hurt herc? sure. but it's not putting him down. cap is actually pretty useless in this fight imo. his shield would annoy, likely get grabbed at some point and then he's effectively out of the fight.

there has been some discussion about how they are so much smarter and more skilled, so could just dodge and attack and keep doing this over and over again. so it's super intelligent of them to just duck and hit? i don't see that as particularly brilliant--i see it as their best, their only strategy, like herc destroying and weaponizing the bf and making things random is his best strategy. their weapons WILL run out though and staying hidden when there is a veritable hurricane of wood and rock coming at you isn't exactly a given and MIGHT make throwing things....challenging. if he leaps and decides to fully unload on the ground the bf would literally be decimated. he could tunnel underground and just start tossing massive chunks of ground. how far away would they be? if he just starts upending 0.5km of ground and tossing and smashing it what are they gonna do? he'd be impossible for them to hit, even if throwing sh!t through a hurricane of shrapnel didn't somehow dissuade them.

i honestly don't see the team having any real chance in this fight. you'd literally have to use the teams highest feats and use herc's lowest to give them some sort of chance, but that's not how we do things here. or we shouldn't.

Leo is wrong

I conceed he's wrong about the last paragraph.

Carver and Abhi's entire posting career's are lowball/highball.

If Herc gets any of them in that choke hold he held Thor in its over.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
And the Manhattan pulling feat was revealed to be BS, too. To a lesser extent, as it happened, but he didn't pull shit, he just asborbed the shockwaves.

That leaves Herc with the Atlas feat as his best... and it cannot be quanitified.



Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I believe it was me who broke that story on KMC.
Sure about this?

Care to refresh our memories?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
The Manhattan showing was brought up because Herc was going to throw the entire continent/moon or whatever away.

Hand ninjas don't have the consistent feats Bats and Cap have. Yes, but they could do just as well, since there's absolutely no discussion of a Herald wrecking the shit out of the forest, and killing everyong in it.

Just Cap and Batman bouncing around a forest Herc for some reason doesn't smash to shit, dodging everything Herc can throw at them, trees and all, (thrown by herald level strength, but both can dodge 20 ton, 60 foot lengths of wood, in a forest of all places lol, by expert flight path logics) and yet somehow get close enough to throw and land their own projectiles?

Element of surprise is a given. But once that's gone? Herc knows Cap real well.
Think Herc would for one second let Cap run around behind cover to begin with?

And besides, Op only said full power. He didn't say we abandon every bit of character development.

Meaning, he still has the skills he used to hold off Elektra, in addition to years spent working with Cap and seeing how he operates.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Sure about this?

Care to refresh our memories?

Will post it when I can...but if you use the advanced search function for 'pink Hulk' by 'darksaint85' you'll find it.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Sure about this?

Care to refresh our memories?
In depth breakdown here

You're welcome.

Feat looks valid to me. Looks like they want a degree of suspension of disbelief else every big strength feat is discredited.
This is comics after all.
Thanks Zop

Oh yeah, that looks 100% legit. Some vague comment about embellishing bracing against shockwaves doesn't disprove a thing.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Feat looks valid to me. Looks like they want a degree of suspension of disbelief else every big strength feat is discredited.
This is comics after all.
Thanks Zop
Did you not read the final scan? It was a goof :
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/85763/2918576-noprize.jpg

Confirmed here :
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/85763/2917732-herc_boast2.jpg

Everything about the 'feat' was wrong. Hence the "That's exactly the way that merry Gerry (Conway) told it to us, friend! And quite frankly we're not sure if we believe it, either!"

It never happened.

It happened on panel. Pretty sure that's their(editor/writer/Marvel) way of telling scrutinizing fans to have a little suspension of disbelief.

Except it was also then printed in Marvel's comic that they reserve for errors....

Read the whole thread that was posted. What was shown on panel was Hercules putting Manhattan back in place backwards, the comic it appeared in cast doubt on the feat, the scan from Hulk stated Herc kept Manhattan from being moved, but he exaggerated and claimed he pulled it back, it's been stated to not have happened in the Marvel Team Up Index, and multiple Marvel Handbooks, and two different No Prize books. Hercules didn't actually perform the feat, that's Marvel's official stance.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
It happened on panel. Pretty sure that's their(editor/writer/Marvel) way of telling scrutinizing fans to have a little suspension of disbelief.
Except that's not what it was. He placed the island BACKWARD with Battery Park facing the wrong direction! That's why the villain in the follow up arc said Hercules exaggerated his feat because everything about it was WRONG (hell the editor himself said it was BS in the very same issue it happened in).

Does anyone have scans of the feat not happening?
I'm not talking about goofy editor explanations or jokey and vague walk-balks to explain errors, but actual story based panels.

We also have scans of other characters saying that Herc exaggerated what he did.

Also, there's the whole 'Manhattan isn't backwards ' thing.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
We also have scans of other characters saying that Herc exaggerated what he did.

Also, there's the whole 'Manhattan isn't backwards ' thing.

Ocram's razor: Everything is backwards. Herc obviously reversed the direction of the Earth to mess with everyone.

But Herc didn't narrate Marvel Team-Up #28.

Anyways... He has better strength feats than just pulling a measly island.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
But Herc didn't narrate Marvel Team-Up #28.

We were still told that MTU 28 was a recreation of what the creators were told had happened, and every source since has credited Hercules with the original embellishment. There's literally one (inaccurate) depiction of him performing the feat,and about a half dozen sources saying he didn't. The feat's invalid.

Very true.

It was the writer.

Who the editors disavowed.

lol lamest retcon ever if that is what it is, but who cares. could he pull an equivalent weight if he had to? i see no reason to think he couldn't so honestly, it doesn't matter. if anything herc has been portrayed as stronger now than he was 50 years ago when thor was pretty inarguably the stronger of the 2. now they are pretty much seen as exact equals. the feat never really made sense anyway so whether it did or didn't happen really has no bearing on herc's strength. great durability feat though if he absorbed all that earthquake power. /shrug

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Very true.

It was the writer.

Who the editors disavowed.
Jokingly.

Suspension of disbelief is my take.

But like I said, I don't even have that as his best feat.