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Name the last 3 people each of these characters beat without any context or amps. Who's the most powerful beings these people beat with their powers without any outside assistance.

1. Thor
2. Superman
3. Surfer

Knock out by the way.

Kinda hard to say without outside assistance, seeing as Superman is watched over by Mxy.

Originally posted by carver9
Name the last 3 people each of these characters beat without any context or amps. Who's the most powerful beings these people beat with their powers without any outside assistance.

1. Thor
2. Superman
3. Surfer

That's not what context means.

Paul losing his patience and about to stop sending donations to BLM.

Narrator: so far, the bait thread was not going the way Carver hoped

How long before the Odin force gets called the Thorforce? Thorce?

Originally posted by -Pr-
That's not what context means.

Naah, most of the answers here are dodging tbh.

Then tell me what no context means, when in canon comics Mxy has flat out said he (and Batmite) are the guardian angels and watch over Bats and Superman?

a thread where basic context isn't even allowed? this should be fun.

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
a thread where basic context isn't even allowed? this should be fun.

As long as it's nothing that gives the fighter assistance in their fight outside of their powerset, then it's OK. No amps unless it's a natural Amp like Hulk getting angry, wtc... (which in the case would be krytpnite/sun amps, Odin Force Amp for Thor and Surfer deep diving in sun's pulling energy from it).

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Then tell me what no context means, when in canon comics Mxy has flat out said he (and Batmite) are the guardian angels and watch over Bats and Superman?

Originally posted by carver9
Name the last 3 people each of these characters beat without any context or amps. Who's the most powerful beings these people beat with their powers without any outside assistance.

1. Thor
2. Superman
3. Surfer Hmph. Thor's had the Odinforce for so long I can't actually recall who he's fought before that didn't involve either a completely diminished Unworthy Thor or the Thor Corps? By that token, are we including Jane Thor in this or only Thor Odinson?

Damn, Original Sin was 2014....

^ Jeez... an entire decade.

Err... one notable opponent classic Thor beat was... Glory from Secret Invasion??? That was 2010.

Granted, I'm several beers in. I'm sure he's defeated other opponents beyond that unaided/unamped, right???

Kinda think Jane Thor should count. That would add more recent fights.

At this rate, the last time he beat someone noteworthy, qwerty still hadn't learned English......

^ Thor beat Uriel in Uncanny Avengers back in 2012?

He beat an amped Juggernaut in 2018 unless you count the dwarf Screwbeard's multiple hammers as outside help. That just happened to be Thor's arsenal back then because none of those hammers could compare to Mjolnir. They were pretty worthless, breaking one after the other.

He also beat Odin during that same run. But Odin explicitly said that he had "some Odin-Force still cours" through his veins. So that suggests he wasn't fullpower. Odin was also heavily conflicted during the fight if you read his thought bubbles.

Those are still beastly showings, especially the Odin fight since Odin was still operating at high levels of power.

Originally posted by ODG
^ Jeez... an entire decade.

Err... one notable opponent classic Thor beat was... Glory from Secret Invasion??? That was 2010.

Granted, I'm several beers in. I'm sure he's defeated other opponents beyond that unaided/unamped, right???

Kinda think Jane Thor should count. That would add more recent fights.

Yes, Jane counts since at that time, she was Thor.

The "Jane" part of "Jane Thor" isn't context?

Originally posted by ODG
Hmph. Thor's had the Odinforce for so long I can't actually recall who he's fought before that didn't involve either a completely diminished Unworthy Thor or the Thor Corps? By that token, are we including Jane Thor in this or only Thor Odinson?

Back in the day, he beat a Celestial 1v1.

Surfer didn't beat Knull, but surviving Knull alone is a huge feat for someone of his power level.

Carver, no matter what though, the Surfer and Thor will never beat Superman in a feat war.

Originally posted by Smurph
The "Jane" part of "Jane Thor" isn't context? Well... I guess that's a good question. Do people think that feats by characters like Beta Ray Bill or Eric Masterson or Jane Foster wielding Mjolnir with the power of Thor should not be considered a feat by Thor?

Because Odinson didn't do it but someone literally utilizing Thor's power did it?

I'm curious.

Originally posted by Stoic
Surfer didn't beat Knull, but surviving Knull alone is a huge feat for someone of his power level.

Carver, no matter what though, the Surfer and Thor will never beat Superman in a feat war.

All fair game here. You can name fights with anyone here.

Originally posted by ODG
Well... I guess that's a good question. Do people think that feats by characters like Beta Ray Bill or Eric Masterson or Jane Foster wielding Mjolnir with the power of Thor should not be considered a feat by Thor?

Because Odinson didn't do it but someone literally utilizing Thor's power did it?

I'm curious. I mean for the purpose of this thread it's Carver's call as to what he's asking for -- but it's hard to understand what "context" means if we're ignoring pretty glaring contextual issues, such as who's wielding the hammer.

Bigger picture, the forum rule is that feats don't transfer, whether as between hammer wielders or GLs or heralds or kryptonians.

If truly pressed I think the best and only use for the evidence is what somebody could do with their power, but doesn't. Which is mostly a distinction without a difference.

Ie, Jane's "move like lightning" surgery feat in her short stint as Thor dwarfs Odinson's speed feats.

Should he logically be able to access the same power? Idk, comics. Sure/maybe/your mileage may vary.

Does he? No.

Smurph, you wasn't participating with the original post anyways. You came into this thread complaining. So, I don't get why you're disputing my Jane comment when the initial thread overall was a problem to you.

Originally posted by Smurph
Narrator: so far, the bait thread was not going the way Carver hoped

Originally posted by carver9
Smurph, you wasn't participating with the original post anyways. You came into this thread complaining. So, I don't get why you're disputing my Jane comment when the initial thread overall was a problem to you. I'm pointing out that your thread parameters don't make sense. I can't offer an opinion in a thread without parameters.

I suspect that the parameters don't make sense because this is just a poorly conceived bait thread. But you're welcome to prove me wrong with a little bit of clarity around what this thread is looking for, exactly.

Originally posted by ODG
Well... I guess that's a good question. Do people think that feats by characters like Beta Ray Bill or Eric Masterson or Jane Foster wielding Mjolnir with the power of Thor should not be considered a feat by Thor?

Because Odinson didn't do it but someone literally utilizing Thor's power did it?

I'm curious.

I'd say no, no more than the reverse (defeats) for those characters are = defeats for Thor.

As Smurph says, we don't share feats ( and Carver usually doesn't either, so him allowing them in his own thread is mystifying). Where does it end?

GLs don't get to share feats, despite all having the same ring.

Flashes don't get to share feats.

Punisher in an old armour doesn't get Tony/Rhodeys feats.

Imperfect analogies all, so I'm sure holes can be picked in them, but the point remains - we don't share feats, just like we don't share defeats.

Of course he could just be an idiot, we'll never know.

Originally posted by Smurph
I'm pointing out that your thread parameters don't make sense. I can't offer an opinion in a thread without parameters.

I suspect that the parameters don't make sense because this is just a poorly conceived bait thread. But you're welcome to prove me wrong with a little bit of clarity around what this thread is looking for, exactly.

It's simple. Name the last fights these individuals won without being amped. Start there. ODG caught on real quick. You're just trying to be difficult, lol.

Originally posted by ODG
Well... I guess that's a good question. Do people think that feats by characters like Beta Ray Bill or Eric Masterson or Jane Foster wielding Mjolnir with the power of Thor should not be considered a feat by Thor?

Because Odinson didn't do it but someone literally utilizing Thor's power did it?

I'm curious.

Good question. I wonder if Carvy would respond. Good of you to be curious, guess some things aren't that clear cut.

So SBP's fight with TBWL counts since if Jane Thor is allowed/without any context according to Carver?

Originally posted by carver9
It's simple. Name the last fights these individuals won without being amped. Start there. ODG caught on real quick. You're just trying to be difficult, lol. Ok. So, to be clear, there was no context in the Thor/Odin fight? The stuff ODG mentioned doesn't amount to "context" here?

Originally posted by Smurph
Ok. So, to be clear, there was no context in the Thor/Odin fight? The stuff ODG mentioned doesn't amount to "context" here?

Since the word context is causing confusion, scratch that out and go by what I said above. This should help with getting things on tract. Now if you continue mentioning this, then that just means you want to argue, and I don't argue with men.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
So SBP's fight with TBWL counts since if Jane Thor is allowed/without any context according to Carver?

Did Superman pass Superboy Prime his power? If he did, then yes, it counts.

Originally posted by carver9
Did Superman pass Superboy Prime his power? If he did, then yes, it counts.
But SBP has the same powers of Superman, just without non of his restrictions
So Superman should logically be able to access the same power levels of SBP, no?

Or we can use Barry as an example. Does Barry get all the powers from all other speedsters that access to SF(after all, he is the engine for Speed Force)

Originally posted by carver9
then that just means you want to argue, and I don't argue with men. What.

Carver, this is a debate forum.

You've been posting here for 20 years.

I mean the comics are clear that even though they both wield Mjolnir, the Motherstorm preferred Jane and Mjolnir flew for her in ways it didn't for Odinson.

Iow, they performed completely differently.

All GLs get their power from Oa, but what they DO with that power is different. Shazam gets his powers from many of the same gods WW does (Zeus being a notable example) - do they all share feats?

Does Thor really have that shitty a back catalogue that we have to raid a completely different character for feats? Gawddamn......

Originally posted by Smurph
What.

Carver, this is a debate forum.

You've been posting here for 20 years.

I said argue, not debate. They could potentially be considered one of the same except I think arguing is a little more draining than a sensible debate.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
But SBP has the same powers of Superman, just without non of his restrictions
So Superman should logically be able to access the same power levels of SBP, no?

Or we can use Barry as an example. Does Barry get all the powers from all other speedsters that access to SF(after all, he is the engine for Speed Force)

Superman can't access Superboy Prime fts since Prime is FAR more powerful than Supes, AND Jane Thor basically got the powers OF Thor by wielding his hammer.

Did Barry give his power to any of those people? I'm accepting pass downs here.

Originally posted by carver9
Did Barry give his power to any of those people? I'm accepting pass downs here.

Yes.

https://i.postimg.cc/7YHDR3cD/flash.jpg

The Speed Force is created by Barry running. It's him.

Therefore, Wally gets Barry's feats. Barry gets Wally's feats (since Wally is using Barry's Speed Force). Jay Garrick gets Wally and Barry's feats. Even Max Mercury gets his feats.

Great logic, carverino.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998


Not what the comics showed which is what matters.

Originally posted by carver9
Not what the comics showed which is what matters.
And the comics clearly show that Jane Thor's speed feats are better han Thor's
Like Smurph said
Originally posted by Smurph

Ie, Jane's "move like lightning" surgery feat in her short stint as Thor dwarfs Odinson's speed feats.

So...how do you incorporate this with your rules here?

Originally posted by carver9
Not what the comics showed which is what matters.

Lmao literally showed by the comics:

https://i.postimg.cc/qqmFS3hM/Supes.webp

Powers/clothes/birth does not mean they are the same character -what matters is what they do.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
And the comics clearly show that Jane Thor's speed feats are better han Thor's
Like Smurph said

So...how do you incorporate this with your rules here?

The only reason I allowed Jane fts is due to Thor either having the Odin Force (which is an amp) or being not at full powers for some years now, and one of the reasons for that is due to Jane having the hammer. That same luxury doesn't apply to the other characters.

I'm guessing you all don't have anything which is the reason you're beating around the bush. I feel your pain

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
And the comics clearly show that Jane Thor's speed feats are better han Thor's

Not just speed... durability and the mastery over Mjolnir (to some extent), too.

Jane outclassed the bum.

Originally posted by carver9
The only reason I allowed Jane fts is due to Thor either having the Odin Force (which is an amp) or being not at full powers for some years now, and one of the reasons for that is due to Jane having the hammer. That same luxury doesn't apply to the other characters.

I'm guessing you all don't have anything which is the reason you're beating around the bush. I feel your pain

Such a woman, right?

So much flipflopping. First it was because 'Thor shared his power' (lmao). Then when comics rub in how wrong you are, you pivot to a different argument.

Idiot.

Whoa. The sun's getting real low, DS. Relax.

Don't worry... one day, we'll get the US authorities to deport him to Africa. Somehow.

https://i.ibb.co/995HSM5/ff6500d738e7505b6403ca7c52e63c4fd43e1dd5.gif

The picosecond an agent shows up on his front lawn he's coming out shooting, you know this!

That Quicksilver/Cannonball thread was supposed to be boring and uneventful... but anything touched by Pope Carver IX turns into pure platinum.

His respect thread would be legendary. I really should get round to making one....at this rate, Pr's Colossus thread will be completed.

Legendary? It would be stroke-inducing. We're not young men anymore.

Look at Pr, he's basically a vegetable these days. All because of a prolonged carver exposure, same as Luthor and kryptonite...

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Is it true that you were Zimbabwe's first Super Soldier?

Originally posted by carver9
Yes

Originally posted by carver9
PM me if you're ready to see spoilers of my new vid called "chocolate thunder pancaked by 2 amazonian women".

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Carver cannot read, but he can juggle suns with his chocolate hands!

Originally posted by carver9
Youre right, stilt.

---

And the classic:

Originally posted by carver9
I tried to make the tin foil say rip but it didn't work. I then tried to rip metal but I realized that metal can't be ripped, only broken.

Oh god I forgot about juggling suns. I think it cropped up every two years or so, like a melanistic Pennywise.

BELOW ZERO!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by carver9
Storm can create a super breeze of hail thats below zero in an instance and freeze peter.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Oh god I forgot about juggling suns. I think it cropped up every two years or so, like a melanistic Pennywise. same with the infinite energy gamma bombs

The trolling and pain in you all is strong.

Then there's this gem:

Originally posted by carver9
4th panel...

Noticed that Gladiator have the ability to buffer people power level and add it to his own...

https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/41686819/Doctor_Strange_016-014.jpg.html

Originally posted by Smurph
I mean for the purpose of this thread it's Carver's call as to what he's asking for -- but it's hard to understand what "context" means if we're ignoring pretty glaring contextual issues, such as who's wielding the hammer.

Bigger picture, the forum rule is that feats don't transfer, whether as between hammer wielders or GLs or heralds or kryptonians. I agree and have advocated that a weapon or powerset does not automatically transfer all feats. Dumbing it down further, trade a sword back and forth between a master sworsdman and a schlub doesn't transfer feats/skills between them.

Having said that, the Power of Thor is more than just a tool. It's more than just Mjolnir. It's an identity and one that I am hard-pressed to find an analogy for in comics other than... maybe the Spectreforce???

Yes, there have been different wielders of the Spectreforce but they've all been the Spectre. And while the bearer's personality usually ends up presenting a great deal of tension and a foil to Spectre's purpose for narrative conflict, whatever feats or fights have happened have been the "Spectre". Unless we're meant to treat every Spectre differently??? If so, I'd have to think on it more. Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I mean the comics are clear that even though they both wield Mjolnir, the Motherstorm preferred Jane and Mjolnir flew for her in ways it didn't for Odinson.

Iow, they performed completely differently. That's a good point. That's a clear difference. But beyond Mjolnir's flight maneuvers, I'd disagree with the notion they performed completely differently. Especially as it's fair to point out that Thor has simply forgotten that's he's made Mjolnir bounce/swirl around like crazy.

If anything, Jane Thor is more limited than Thor because she's not Asgardian. She can't go into a berserker rage. She can't combine Asgardian energies into Mjolnir and do a Godblast. She can't utilize the limited spellcasting that Thor has done. She also has to deal with the 60 second rule. She has more going against her than going for her. Originally posted by DarkSaint85
All GLs get their power from Oa, but what they DO with that power is different. Shazam gets his powers from many of the same gods WW does (Zeus being a notable example) - do they all share feats?

Does Thor really have that shitty a back catalogue that we have to raid a completely different character for feats? Gawddamn...... Already addressed this above. It's arguably reductive when it comes to characters like Thor and Spectre.

Haven't been many characters that have had years of their publishing history where their power is granted to a mortal as headliner. Masterson had it for years. Jane had it for much longer. And in between those times, Thor has further possessed the Odinforce for years at a time. Anyway, what "context-less" fights has Jane Thor had that outshine Thor's anyway?

Originally posted by ODG
Unless we're meant to treat every Spectre differently???
I thought we already did?
That's why you would see threads mention specific hosts/states
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=684989&highlight=title%3A%28spectre%29+forumid%3A77
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=680419&highlight=title%3A%28spectre%29+forumid%3A77
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=678488&highlight=title%3A%28spectre%29+forumid%3A77
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=644175&highlight=title%3A%28spectre%29+forumid%3A77

^ If so, I'd have to think on it more.

Might help if someone would be willing to push forward a "tier" list of Spectres. That way I can gain a better sense of why people differentiate Spectre by hosts.

^ Phoenixforce has such variance between whose wielding it that I'd distinguish them by the user.

But even if we accept this, that doesn't really support my notion, it undermines it.

COIE Dawn of Time Corrigan Spectre was just Corrigan Spectre amping off DC Earth's magicians. And Golden Age Spectre and 80s Post COIE Spectre are just Corrigan Spectre, no?

And isn't Source Spectre just a hostless Spectre? Which would be DoV Spectre? Seems you can shrink the list.

We would differentiate between Nova Force wielders, too.

And between Doctor Fates.

And between Wildstorm Doctors.

Originally posted by Smurph
We would differentiate between Nova Force wielders, too.

And between Doctor Fates.

And between Wildstorm Doctors. I agree with this. But I'd argue those characters are less bonafide identities and more like powerset wielders.

Which I concede sounds like semantics.