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scenario 1: both walk in shielded

scenario 2: neither is initially shielded.

as sue graduated to the level of the master of magnetism??

Phil is dead, so this thread will be full of DS talking to himself.

With shields up? Not sure. Mag's shields are ridiculously OP, but Sue's shields have gotten a huge push over the last few years. It likely comes down to a battle of attrition, but I could be swayed either way here.

No shields? In a neutral setting? It's a quickdraw scenario, imo.

Both have had abilities. Sue opening shields up in the body and Magneto attacking the blood. This all comes down to whom shields can prevent such attacks.

yeah i was sort of thinking the same thing about the shields. i wonder if mags's shield would stop sue's abilities or if his would stop hers. hers allow em energy to pass through under normal circumstances--light, obviously. they also let sound and gravity work so it's possible he could affect her somehow, at least until she altered the field to stop those affects. but since her fields seem to originate from outside the universe, it's possible she could bypass his shields altogether and win with a brain bubble. i'm really not sure. since her fields bend em radiation, i'd be interested to see if he could find her if she went invisible. or her find him if HE went invisible lol

honestly not sure who would take this.

given his rigorous mental training and pretty impressive reaction feats i'd give him a slight edge in a quickdraw--6/10. this would be a very cool battle to see if written well.

Sue. Molecule Man picked her in the first Secret Wars. The hyperspace can erect pocket dimensions so that Sue can effect arrays.

I think these days if they walk in shielded, Sue takes it. You could feasibly write a comic where either wins, but the balance of the feats tilts towards her.

On a quickdraw - they've both got good reaction feats, but his feats and heightened reactions being part of his powerset put him a cut above, imo.

you think she can break his shields? or does she win some other way?

With both of their shields up it's a draw. Neither one is breaking through the other's shield.

With shields down, it's a quick draw.

She has autoshields:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/11139/111391579/7408721-img_20200605_184304.jpg
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/11139/111391579/9091421-rco011_1663980973.jpg

And her forcefields can cancel out others (like Doom's):
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/scale_super/11139/111391579/9054356-rco011_1468910353.jpg

Which she has done to Galactus, although it hurt her:
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/11139/111391579/9090954-screenshot_2023-09-11-21-52-49-68_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12-1.jpg

Still, I'd say Galactus > Magneto, personally.

By the by, Magneto couldn't find her (or her entire team) when invisible, and had to resort to using the environment:
https://i.postimg.cc/kMwgszNQ/Mags.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/FzPFKkFW/Mags2.jpg

OTOH, she could hide from someone actively searching for her using 'every frequency of radiation':
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/11139/111391579/8115087-1629738376286.jpg

And made some aliens visible. Notable because these aliens were able to hide from Galactus:
https://i.postimg.cc/yYdYbjnw/Aliens.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/fyWTZfsS/Aliens2.jpg

As well as the Unseen, who was hiding from the Watchers:
https://i.postimg.cc/W3wbQfBP/Unseen.jpg

Of course, Sue can hide herself from Watchers.

So on balance, it's more likely she can hide from Magneto, and if Mags tries hiding from her she would be able to find him anyway.

By-the-by (again), here is Sue against an EM forcefield that harnesses the power of the Earth's magnetosphere (emphasis entirely mine for reasons completely unknown )

https://i.postimg.cc/xC6VGDrq/RCO009-1583548006.jpg

She peels it apart.

Shielding in comics has always been a bit of an anomaly to me. Like I know a lot of shields are stupidly haxx and can block massive external attacks... But how often have we seen a character try (and fail) to utilize internal attacks while the shields are up(ie. manipulate the space inside of the shield, ftw)..?

Like in a theoretical "Vader vs. Sue" match, for example: if Sue started the battle with her shielding up, would that prevent Vader from crushing her windpipe by manipulating the Force within the shield barrier?

I feel like that specific tactic isn't often seen in comics, but it has me curious...

Originally posted by Galan007
Shielding in comics has always been a bit of an anomaly to me. Like I know a lot of shields are stupidly haxx and can block massive external attacks... But how often have we seen a character try (and fail) to utilize internal attacks while the shields are up(ie. manipulate the space inside of the shield, ftw)..?

Like in a theoretical "Vader vs. Sue" match, for example: if Sue started the battle with her shielding up, would that prevent Vader from crushing her windpipe by manipulating the Force within the shield barrier?

I feel like that specific tactic isn't often seen in comics, but it has me curious...

Closest I could find is Sersi saying Sue's forcefield explicitly prevented her from affecting Sue 'directly' - but then, these things are usually depicted as an energy beam from point A to B.

https://i.postimg.cc/fyMjNpk7/9097364-rco034-1556848404.jpg

Unlike Sue's, which apparently manifest 'anywhere on this plane' lol (see above with Morgan Le Fay and the Atlantis force field.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Closest I could find is Sersi saying Sue's forcefield explicitly prevented her from affecting Sue 'directly' - but then, these things are usually depicted as an energy beam from point A to B.

https://i.postimg.cc/fyMjNpk7/9097364-rco034-1556848404.jpg

Unlike Sue's, which apparently manifest 'anywhere on this plane' lol (see above with Morgan Le Fay and the Atlantis force field.
https://i.postimg.cc/PPYnJ3Zb/1455153-untitledp1-super.jpg

Originally posted by zopzop
https://i.postimg.cc/PPYnJ3Zb/1455153-untitledp1-super.jpg

Yeah, she heated the air to rush out of the field (unless Crystal was directly heating the air inside the forcefield)?

In any case, no longer applicable as Sue got more powerful after:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/11139/111391579/8722750-rco003_1469122221.jpg

And the FF continually soak up rays (like Superman) so only get stronger over time:
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/11139/111391579/9085304-rco015_1469287058.jpg

Also, wasn't that a dream sequence??

Edit: yes, zopzop you naughty little boy, it was Fantastic Four #332, and that entire fight is a dream sequence from Johnny:

https://i.postimg.cc/tnkRt7Qk/RCO003-1469650109.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/1Vs5qwT4/RCO004-1469650109.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/S2WxRDgw/RCO032-1469650109.jpg

I'm going to spank you.

Zopzop loves visiting men's dreams...

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Zopzop loves visiting men's dreams... if he knew what our dreams were like, he'd wish they were canon too.....

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Edit: yes, zopzop you naughty little boy, it was Fantastic Four #332, and that entire fight is a dream sequence from Johnny:

https://i.postimg.cc/tnkRt7Qk/RCO003-1469650109.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/1Vs5qwT4/RCO004-1469650109.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/S2WxRDgw/RCO032-1469650109.jpg

I'm going to spank you.
Bah, I should have looked into it more. I just remembered that scan from a while ago and it stuck.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Zopzop loves visiting men's dreams...

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Closest I could find is Sersi saying Sue's forcefield explicitly prevented her from affecting Sue 'directly' - but then, these things are usually depicted as an energy beam from point A to B.

https://i.postimg.cc/fyMjNpk7/9097364-rco034-1556848404.jpg Yeah, I took the dialogue to mean that Sersi could no longer attack Sue directly/externally once her FF was up... But again, has a character ever explicitly tried (and failed) to manipulate the space within the shielding, assuming they have the ability to do so?

Mind you, this isn't necessarily a Sue-specific question... It would apply to any character with "bubble-shielding" like that. Obviously we know most uber shields can soak high-end external attacks... But could a character with the right powerset theoretically manipulate the area within that bubble/barrier, or does the shielding also prevent that?

Again, I'm going with the Vader example because it's the easiest: he can manipulate the Force. The Force exists everywhere, holds everything together, surrounds/binds all, etc. So while the shields would undoubtedly block, say, a TK wave or Force Lightning(as they are attacks of the external sort), would the shields also negate Vader's ability to manipulate the Force that still exists within the shielding?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
She has autoshields:


These are good scans but I don't think it's enough to show that Magneto couldn't turn her brain off in a quickdraw.

I do think peak Magneto still stands a very good chance in a feat war over his ability to manipulate her energies vs her ability to manipulate his... but as I said I'd wager that the balance of feats tips towards her. Especially if we think this comes down to some sort of war of attrition.

Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, I took the dialogue to mean that Sersi could no longer attack Sue directly/externally once her FF was up... But again, has a character ever explicitly tried (and failed) to manipulate the space within the shielding, assuming they have the ability to do so?

Mind you, this isn't necessarily a Sue-specific question... It would apply to any character with "bubble-shielding" like that. Obviously we know most uber shields can soak high-end external attacks... But could a character with the right powerset theoretically manipulate the area within that bubble/barrier, or does the shielding also prevent that?

Again, I'm going with the Vader example because it's the easiest: he can manipulate the Force. The Force exists everywhere, holds everything together, surrounds/binds all, etc. So while the shields would undoubtedly block, say, a TK wave or Force Lightning(as they are attacks of the external sort), would the shields also negate Vader's ability to manipulate the Force that still exists within the shielding? My interpretation of the way it would work is: Sue creates a bubble shield. The Force, being ever present, still exists inside and outside the bubble. However, Vader's ability to manipulate the Force gets cut off by the perimeter of the bubble.

I think that's why, say, Storm couldn't create a hurricane out of the air within the bubble. I suppose one might argue that it's different for Vader, specifically -- not because the Force is ever present, but because his connection to the Force is different from Storm's connection to the wind. But since I think Sue could also guard against Thor trying the same hurricane trick, it seems unlikely to me.

Originally posted by Smurph
My interpretation of the way it would work is: Sue creates a bubble shield. The Force, being ever present, still exists inside and outside the bubble. However, Vader's ability to manipulate the Force gets cut off by the perimeter of the bubble.

I think that's why, say, Storm couldn't create a hurricane out of the air within the bubble. I suppose one might argue that it's different for Vader, specifically -- not because the Force is ever present, but because his connection to the Force is different from Storm's connection to the wind. But since I think Sue could also guard against Thor trying the same hurricane trick, it seems unlikely to me.

yep. my interpretation of what would happen exactly. i'd say hers at least. less sure if mags could stop something similar tbh. her power essentially stems from outside the universe so makes sense it could affect more than his might be able to. weird vision phased through though. he couldn't phase through mags'--not that he'd ever have the chance.

if she's letting em energy through to see, there's also the chance he could manipulate it--ride it so it speak--as a way inside the shield and affect her that way. i'm still unsure she could shut down his force field. maybe but it seems he'd just be able to raise it unless she continued to cancel it. i dunno.

Originally posted by Smurph
My interpretation of the way it would work is: Sue creates a bubble shield. The Force, being ever present, still exists inside and outside the bubble. However, Vader's ability to manipulate the Force gets cut off by the perimeter of the bubble.

I think that's why, say, Storm couldn't create a hurricane out of the air within the bubble. I suppose one might argue that it's different for Vader, specifically -- not because the Force is ever present, but because his connection to the Force is different from Storm's connection to the wind. But since I think Sue could also guard against Thor trying the same hurricane trick, it seems unlikely to me. That's kind of how I figured it might be depicted in a comic, too.

But I really am curious: has a character ever tried/failed to manipulate the area within an uber force-field on panel? Feel like that sort of tactic is never really touched on for obvious reasons(ie. comics aren't a battleboard setting, so characters are almost always going to just slingshot external attacks at shielding), but still... /shrug

What about the bubble stopping TP? Is that sufficient?

Originally posted by Smurph
These are good scans but I don't think it's enough to show that Magneto couldn't turn her brain off in a quickdraw.

I do think peak Magneto still stands a very good chance in a feat war over his ability to manipulate her energies vs her ability to manipulate his... but as I said I'd wager that the balance of feats tips towards her. Especially if we think this comes down to some sort of war of attrition.

Yeah, I was also addressing Leon's questions about them hiding from each other with those scans.

Originally posted by leonidas
yep. my interpretation of what would happen exactly. i'd say hers at least. less sure if mags could stop something similar tbh. her power essentially stems from outside the universe so makes sense it could affect more than his might be able to. weird vision phased through though. he couldn't phase through mags'--not that he'd ever have the chance.

if she's letting em energy through to see, there's also the chance he could manipulate it--ride it so it speak--as a way inside the shield and affect her that way. i'm still unsure she could shut down his force field. maybe but it seems he'd just be able to raise it unless she continued to cancel it. i dunno. When the plot insists, comic characters have bypassed forcefields during mid-conversation because... well the force-field wielder allowed for the sound of their voices to transverse same. Same with photonic/light energy.

Technically, unless a forcefield blocks out all light/sound, both light/sound can penetrate the forcefields easily. Originally posted by Galan007
That's kind of how I figured it might be depicted in a comic, too.

But I really am curious: has a character ever tried/failed to manipulate the area within an uber force-field on panel? Feel like that sort of tactic is never really touched on for obvious reasons(ie. comics aren't a battleboard setting, so characters are almost always going to just slingshot external attacks at shielding), but still... /shrug I think it's more appropriate to ask if a Force-wielder has ever penetrated an uber forcefield on-panel. Because if you want to talk about plot device powers like the Force, well... same applies.

The Force was described as "n energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us; it binds the galaxy together." So all things considered equal in a comics vs forum setting, the Force isn't exactly that much more special than Magneto's electromagnetism or Sue's forcefields.

Originally posted by ODG
Technically, unless a forcefield blocks out all light/sound, both light/sound can penetrate the forcefields easily.
Yup and believe it or not, it happened vs Sue on panel but in a What If. Dazzler took her ass out with a focused ray of light aka laser.
https://i.postimg.cc/1fDnSh9p/image.jpg

Sue can selectively block out all forms of radiation. She normally chooses to let visible light through, but it's her choice. She has various feats making soundproof force fields, fields that render everybody invisible inside, and fields that block out everything.

Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, I took the dialogue to mean that Sersi could no longer attack Sue directly/externally once her FF was up... But again, has a character ever explicitly tried (and failed) to manipulate the space within the shielding, assuming they have the ability to do so?

i think this is what you were getting at?

https://dreager1.com/2013/06/07/invisible-woman-vs-crystal/ #:~:text=Crystal%20has%20powers%20over%204,obtaine
d%20fire%20powers%20as%20well

(no idea anymore of any of my image site passwords so this is what you get lol

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Edit: yes, zopzop you naughty little boy, it was Fantastic Four #332, and that entire fight is a dream sequence from Johnny:

https://i.postimg.cc/tnkRt7Qk/RCO003-1469650109.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/1Vs5qwT4/RCO004-1469650109.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/S2WxRDgw/RCO032-1469650109.jpg

I'm going to spank you.

so that was just a dream sequence? couldn't find or recall the issue number....

nvm--found it. totally get it's a dream and not useable but it does make sense. :/ there's also a scan that says this is the path reality WOULD have taken...

anyway, my bad

you're sounding more and more like beatboks in his senility

ha! you should talk.