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Some have tried to say that the source and eternity are more or less representations of each other. So when introduciing other beings that represent everything as stated on panel, who is actually most powerful? Next most powereful, etc.

Not the Source

Eating 5-D Imps like candy is > anything I've seen the other chumps do. uhuh

Ultimator is like...everything. He is everything that is, that will be, can be, should be, shall be, might be...etc. He is very strong!! He killed many 5-D imps. I give him the win

Going by feats, Alien Entity takes.
I know recreating the Marvel Omniverse isn't really a battle feat, but it shows how powerful this 'omnipotent' being truly was.

Going by implied power, The Source wins.
It empowers everything within the DCU, which includes Ultimator herself.

I don't know who takes it....but, I know Eternity isn't the most powerful being in this thread....especially if it's just 616 Eternity.

Originally posted by Galan007
Eating 5-D Imps like candy is > anything I've seen the other chumps do.
Ditto

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
Going by feats, Alien Entity takes.
I know recreating the Marvel Omniverse isn't really a battle feat, but it shows how powerful this 'omnipotent' being truly was.That was a shared feat with Reed, anyway:

http://s1d2.turboimagehost.com/t/1474816_ae1.jpg http://s1d2.turboimagehost.com/t/1474817_ae2.jpg http://s1d2.turboimagehost.com/t/1474818_ae3.jpg

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
Going by implied power, The Source wins.
It empowers everything within the DCU, which includes Ultimator herself. Considering there are quite a few characters who are independent of the Source, your statement doesn't hold true at all. Plus the fact that we've never seen the Source 'empowering' any characters outside of the mainstream DC universe/4th World.

Originally posted by Galan007

Considering there are quite a few characters who are independent of the Source, your statement doesn't hold true at all. Plus the fact that we've never seen the Source affect a character outside of the mainstream DC universe/4th World.
I see.
There are "omnipotent" beings that The Source does not power, like Lucifer or Elaine Belloc

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
I see.
There are "omnipotent" beings that The Source does not power, like Lucifer or Elaine Belloc And also far less than omnipotent beings (ie. The Shade/Culp.)

id give this to eternity (IF its multi-eternity)

The Alien Entity is the embodiment of the Marvel Universe's Past, Present & Future.

The Alien Entity literally created from withIN itself
the "Spark" that ignites the original Big Bang,
and indeed used that "Spark" to do just that.

Then the AE used Reed's mind as a guide, (a map if you will of the Marvel Universe)
and so the AE proceeded to create anew the Marvel Universe,
this re-creation was so absolute,
Reed was able to literally be the one responsible for giving himself & the FF their powers,
by manipulating the rays from 1961.

Wow.

Then the AE proceeded to merge with everything that was created,
including the Fires of Creation (Big Bang)
including the unseen Future of the Marvel Universe.

Incredible.

That's what the FF arc left us with on panel,
this fact is corroborated by the only Marvel reference we have concerning the arc.


* IMO ... The Alien Entity may be the most powerful character in Marvel,
due to this insane feat, and the fact that the feat continues into who knows what.

* Edit: (uhh, not more powerful than you know who though)

so does this means Alien Entity > PR Beyonder and TOAA?

Originally posted by SoulDevourer

so does this means Alien Entity > PR Beyonder and TOAA?
I meant in a current hierarchy,
and the AE is nothing but ink & paper to TOAA, like everything else in the Omniverse.

It comes down to Ultimator and AE.

The Source is above the Ultimator. It is the ovoid, and it's seperated from the main DCU by the Source Wall.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
Going by implied power, The Source wins.
It empowers everything within the DCU, which includes Ultimator herself.

It is the cosmic pool in which all the DCU floats (including the Monitor's world), it is the essence of life itself. It has no shape no form, it simply is.

Originally posted by Allankles

It is the cosmic pool in which all the DCU floats (including the Monitor's world), it is the essence of life itself. It has no shape no form, it simply is.
Imo, from the debates I had in the past concerning the Source,
Eternity/Infinity do what the Source is/does on an every moment basis.

In fact, the Source was created with the Universe.

I believe that The Source itself is far more powerful than Ultimator, or any imp or genie.

Ultimator only has one showing: Eating a bunch of 5D imps.
A feat The Source can replicate, or even surpass.


I'm quite sure that if I make a "The Source VS Ultimator" thread, the general consensus would be in favor of The Source.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Imo, from the debates I had in the past concerning the Source,
Eternity/Infinity do what the Source is/does on an every moment basis.

In fact, the Source was created with the Universe.

From what you have shown Eternity's heartbeat began after the big bang something The Source made all by itself , haven't seen much of Infinity to put it beyond Eternity either as they are 2 side of the other what I see...

The source is so popular :/

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
Going by implied power, The Source wins.
It empowers everything within the DCU, which includes Ultimator herself.

I have a canon source that says the 5th Dimension is outside of 'Creation' (IE the DCU including The Source)...implying that 10th dimensional beings would also be.



I give the nod to the AE.

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/4923/30088927.jpg

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/4923/30088927.jpg

So LT is at least a 16-dimensional being? Interesting.

Originally posted by Enyalus
So LT is at least a 16-dimensional being? Interesting. yup as well as the other abstracts
hell maybe they aint got no dimension limit

btw if 5th D & above is suppose to be outside creation then whats it part of? its part of DC so it gotta be part of something (like "DC omniverse" or "DC super mega multiverse" ^^)

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
yup as well as the other abstracts
hell maybe they aint got no dimension limit

btw if 5th D & above is suppose to be outside creation then whats it part of? its part of DC so it gotta be part of something (like "DC omniverse" or "DC super mega multiverse" ^^)

No clue. Zauriel and Dream of the Endless said it was outside of Creation. Implying that the 5th Dimension is outside of The Presence's control.

Originally posted by Enyalus
No clue. Zauriel and Dream of the Endless said it was outside of Creation. Implying that the 5th Dimension is outside of The Presence's control. yeah the Presence himself said he aint god (he said he was created by something else) so hes not like marvels TOAA. maybe its possible anything above 3D is outside his control

but on other hand iirc Specter said that no reality is outside judgment so either he was wrong or the writers retconed the previous statement about 5D

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
yeah the Presence himself said he aint god (he said he was created by something else) so hes not like marvels TOAA. maybe its possible anything above 3D is outside his control

but on other hand iirc Specter said that no reality is outside judgment so either he was wrong or the writers retconed the previous statement about 5D you mite wanna not use ywh which is a vertigo god to talk about the presence. U don't wanna make it look like u don't know what u r talking about.

Originally posted by fangirl101

you mite wanna not use ywh which is a vertigo god to talk about the presence. U don't wanna make it look like u don't know what u r talking about. what r U talking about ?


anyways :

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/9991/nopotent.jpg




btw your saying 5D is under Presence control but can u prove it on panel?

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
what r U talking about ?


anyways heres 4 u :

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/9991/nopotent.jpg Fail?

Originally posted by iceman24567
Fail? u sayin vertigos not DC?

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
u sayin vertigos not DC?

Originally posted by iceman24567
man thats like, weird

http://www.dccomics.com/sites/vertigo_num1s/

why would DC comics have section dedicate to rival company?



maybe theres also a "Apple section" on microsoft.com?

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
man thats like, weird

http://www.dccomics.com/sites/vertigo_num1s/

why would DC comics have section dedicate to rival company?



maybe theres also a "Apple section" on microsoft.com? facepalm

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
Ultimator only has one showing: Eating a bunch of 5D imps.
A feat The Source can replicate, or even surpass.
How so?

Originally posted by Galan007
That was a shared feat with Reed, anyway:

http://s1d2.turboimagehost.com/t/1474816_ae1.jpg http://s1d2.turboimagehost.com/t/1474817_ae2.jpg http://s1d2.turboimagehost.com/t/1474818_ae3.jpg

It was a shared feat in the sense that he used Reed's knowledge, the actual recreation was AE alone.

That's hardly impressive

I agree.

The Source.

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/4923/30088927.jpg Originally posted by Enyalus
So LT is at least a 16-dimensional being? Interesting.

Originally posted by Mindset
I agree. Thats why i like you

Originally posted by Mindset
You are correct as always

Originally posted by iceman24567

I disagree.
Vertigo, as well as Wildstorm, is part of DC 52.

Originally posted by Enyalus
I have a canon source that says the 5th Dimension is outside of 'Creation' (IE the DCU including The Source)...implying that 10th dimensional beings would also be.

The Spectre said that no reality is exempt from The Presence's divine judgment.

And just like The Source, The Word, etc., they are aspects of The Presence himself, which is logically far more powerful than the Ultimator.

Originally posted by Enyalus
At least someone laughed at that. Soul Devourer didn't get it. only 1 "got it" so looks like there wuz nothing to get

Originally posted by Mindset
It was a shared feat in the sense that he used Reed's knowledge, the actual recreation was AE alone. It was a shared feat in the sense that the AE specifically stated he could not control that which he'd unleashed, due to lack of knowledge. AE then went on to say he needed Reed - lest creation itself literally crumble (see the scans I posted earlier.)

In short, with Reed that feat is uber. Without him, not so much.

Originally posted by Galan007

It was a shared feat in the sense that the AE specifically stated he could not control that which he'd unleashed, due to lack of knowledge. AE then went on to say he needed Reed - lest creation itself literally crumble (see the scans I posted earlier.)

In short, with Reed that feat is uber. Without him, not so much.
AE on it's own reverted Marvel back to it's pre-Big Bang point.
AE on it's own (physically) created the "spark" that ignites the Fires of Creation.
AE on it's own set the "spark" in motion.
AE manipulated/controlled the Fires of Creation
& then merged with everything he created including the Fires of Creation itself.

It's true, AE used Reed's mind as a guide to create the Marvelverse anew
but to say what AE did was not uber, is not right imo.

Anywho, in the end,
this is the AE as last seen,
and AE as last seen is merged with all of Marvel's Past/Present/Future.

So basically,
it's all of Marvel's past/present & future (AE) rolled into one coming at ya.

Originally posted by Mr Master
AE on it's own reverted Marvel back to it's pre-Big Bang point.
AE on it's own (physically) created the "spark" that ignites the Fires of Creation.
AE on it's own set the "spark" in motion.
AE manipulated/controlled the Fires of Creation
& then merged with everything he created including the Fires of Creation itself.

It's true, AE used Reed's mind as a guide to create the Marvelverse anew
but to say what AE did was not uber, is not right imo.

Anywho, in the end,
this is the AE as last seen,
and AE as last seen is merged with all of Marvel's Past/Present/Future.

So basically,
it's all of Marvel's past/present & future (AE) rolled into one coming at ya.

Just so we are clear....
Infinity/Eternity represent all of space and time...
Thus... they together are the alien being?..

what the.. awww i'm just messing with you.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
I disagree.
Vertigo, as well as Wildstorm, is part of DC 52.

Originally posted by Juntai
Another one, this time from the Vertigo Editor.

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=124899

"Wayne repeated his answer from an earlier panel that Vertigo is not one of the 52 Universes of the DC Multiverse."
.

Originally posted by Mr Master
AE on it's own reverted Marvel back to it's pre-Big Bang point.
AE on it's own (physically) created the "spark" that ignites the Fires of Creation.
AE on it's own set the "spark" in motion.
AE manipulated/controlled the Fires of Creation
& then merged with everything he created including the Fires of Creation itself.Which is all somewhat moot. By the AE's own accord, he couldn't even control all that power he'd unleashed, without Reed's assistance.

Originally posted by Mr Master
It's true, AE used Reed's mind as a guide to create the Marvelverse anew
but to say what AE did was not uber, is not right imo. Ultimately, all the AE alone did was manifest a completely unstable creation. A place that would have destroyed itself without Reed's help anyway.

So while it was pretty cool what the AE did solo style - it was nowhere near as impressive as what the AE + Reed achieved.

Regarding this bullshit about the Source equalling eternity: The Godwave was an expression of the Source's power, and the energy that created the pantheons and super powered beings. It was only a small portion of the Source's power.

The WORLOGOG, is but a fragment of the Source, and even a piece of that would make one>>>Eternity.

The freaking Source itself, is an aspect of the Presence.

AE

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Regarding this bullshit about the Source equalling eternity: The Godwave was an expression of the Source's power, and the energy that created the pantheons and super powered beings. It was only a small portion of the Source's power.

And Eternity pwn'd an Incomplete Infinity Gauntlet. The same Gauntlet that is above the Ultimate Nullifier....which itself can destroy and recreate the entire multiverse.





Juntai, thanks for the info regarding Vertigo. Didn't know where that stood in terms of DC's 52 universes. I know the Wildstorm Universe is supposed to be #50, but even that doesn't really make sense. The Authority, for instance, visits hundreds of different Earths. Sorta weird, considering per FC, there should only be 52.

Originally posted by Mr Master
The Alien Entity is the embodiment of the Marvel Universe's Past, Present & Future.

The Alien Entity literally created from withIN itself
the "Spark" that ignites the original Big Bang,
and indeed used that "Spark" to do just that.

Then the AE used Reed's mind as a guide, (a map if you will of the Marvel Universe)
and so the AE proceeded to create anew the Marvel Universe,
this re-creation was so absolute,
Reed was able to literally be the one responsible for giving himself & the FF their powers,
by manipulating the rays from 1961.

Wow.

Then the AE proceeded to merge with everything that was created,
including the Fires of Creation (Big Bang)
including the unseen Future of the Marvel Universe.

Incredible.

That's what the FF arc left us with on panel,
this fact is corroborated by the only Marvel reference we have concerning the arc.


* IMO ... The Alien Entity may be the most powerful character in Marvel,
due to this insane feat, and the fact that the feat continues into who knows what.

* Edit: (uhh, not more powerful than you know who though)

Hey MM long time no speak. Hows things?!!

"The embodiment of Marvels Past, Present and Future?"

I dont remember reading that in the story arc. Can you point me to the specific statement or single scan that says that?

With regards to that F4 story arc it wasnt the Alien Entity and Reed that did anything in and of themselves. It was Eternity.

Both guys travelled back in time to the point before the Big Bang and their questions on existence triggered the creation event as Eternity had done before them.

How did they do this? Because as explained in the comic, everyone and everything in the universe are as much a part of Eternity as the stars and planets themselves.

According to the comic it was originally Eternitys questions on the meaning of existence that caused the creation event. And the creation cycle is Eternitys way of finding out the answer to his question. What is the meaning of life?

As extensions of Eternity, as parts of Eternity himself Reed and the Alien were able to trigger the creation event in the same way he did originally because they like everything else make up Eternity. So they were able to substitute for him.

That is why the not especially significant(on a cosmic level) Reed and the Alien Entity who lacked the power to defend himself from some alien soldiers, were able to pull off such a monumental feat. It had nothing to do with any inherent power. They were just able to take Eternitys role because as made clear in the comic, everything in the universe is Eternity.

Good to see ya GS

Originally posted by Enyalus
And Eternity pwn'd an Incomplete Infinity Gauntlet. The same Gauntlet that is above the Ultimate Nullifier....which itself can destroy and recreate the entire multiverse itself.





Juntai, thanks for the info regarding Vertigo. Didn't know where that stood in terms of DC's 52 universes. I know the Wildstorm Universe is supposed to be #50, but even that doesn't really make sense. The Authority, for instance, visits hundreds of different Earths. Sorta weird, considering per FC, there should only be 52. Each of the 52 is a multiverse.

Originally posted by guy222
Good to see ya GS

You too mate.

I just dont have the time anymore. I dont think ive been on for 6 months!

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You too mate.

I just dont have the time anymore. I dont think ive been on for 6 months!

Hey GS, try to not be such a stranger

Reed and the Entitys desire to understand, their questions on their own existence were TRIGGERS for the creation event:

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/8930/fantasticfour53201mj2.jpg


It was no feat of power. He was a trigger. Not a creator. That point is stated explicitly. There is no room for interpretation there.

If i light up a stick of dynamite i am the trigger for the resultant explosion, i am not the generator of the explosive power.

When Reed and the Entity travelled back to the pre 616 void and asked what is the meaning of life when they questioned existence they triggered the Big Bang.

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/3677/fantasticfour53208ot0.jpg


However it happened in the exact same way as when Eternity did it (prior to their time travelling and interference) because as revealed they are Eternity. They like everyone else are extensions of him. As stated as much a part of him as the stars. Therefore as stated the reason life was created in Marvel was because Eternity strived to understand his own existence (presumably whilst in the cosmic egg) and THAT proved to be the catalyst for the creation event.

The Alien Entity and Reed were merely substitutes for Eternity because they like EVERYONE ELSE are Eternity. The Alien Entity is no great universal creator. Neither is Reed Richards.

Apologies guys i forgot to resize the images as i uploaded them.

Originally posted by kevdude
Hey GS, try to not be such a stranger

Lol i'll try. Its just so hard these days with work.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Reed and the Entitys desire to understand, their questions on their own existence were TRIGGERS for the creation event:


It was no feat of power. He was a trigger. Not a creator. That point is stated explicitly. There is no room for interpretation there.

If i light up a stick of dynamite i am the trigger for the resultant explosion, i am not the generator of the explosive power.

When Reed and the Entity travelled back to the pre 616 void and asked what is the meaning of life when they questioned existence they triggered the Big Bang.

However it happened in the exact same way as when Eternity did it (prior to their time travelling and interference) because as revealed they are Eternity. They like everyone else are extensions of him. As stated as much a part of him as the stars. Therefore as stated the reason life was created in Marvel was because Eternity strived to understand his own existence (presumably whilst in the cosmic egg) and THAT proved to be the catalyst for the creation event.

The Alien Entity and Reed were merely substitutes for Eternity because they like EVERYONE ELSE are Eternity. The Alien Entity is no great universal creator. Neither is Reed Richards.

Wow. Well, if that interpretation is correct, Eternity should win this...Causing your own creation? Thats...interesting. Existing before you exist. Heh. Aristotle would throw a fit.

NO!!! That's NOT RIGht!!!!

IT'S ALL ABOUT THE POWAH OF THE MARVEL COSMICS AND NOTHIN` MORE !!!

Originally posted by Enyalus
Wow. Well, if that interpretation is correct, Eternity should win this...Causing your own creation? Thats...interesting. Existing before you exist. Heh. Aristotle would throw a fit.

Well the story arc makes it clear that Reed and the Entity were just triggers. Their questions initiated the creation event. They never made reality through a feat of power. They just set the engines in motion as actually stated.

However its later revealed that all life is as much a part of Eternity as the stars and that the creation event was triggered by Eternitys questions on his own existence.

So Reed and the Entity were just substitues for Eternitys original role and they could only be substitutes because like everyone else they are Eternity.

This is yet another interpretation of the creation event. out of many There was a quote from marvel.com explains them all quite well something along the lines of how all of the differing origin explanations could suggest that the marvel universe is always in a state of flux, constantly re-writing itself as time goes on.

This is going to start a shitstorm of immovable objects.

Originally posted by Mekrob
This is going to start a shitstorm of immovable objects.

It always does unfortunately.

Its never about the truth here, its always about feeling like everyone believes what you want them to believe, how you think things should be. Thats why you can expect a flood of scans.

I swear everytime i come back after a break from here you have a different name lol

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
It always does unfortunately.

Its never about the truth here, its always about feeling like everyone believes what you want them to believe, how you think things should be. Thats why you can expect a flood of scans.

I swear everytime i come back after a break from here you have a different name lol Quite true actually... to everything you said.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
It always does unfortunately.

Its never about the truth here, its always about feeling like everyone believes what you want them to believe, how you think things should be. Thats why you can expect a flood of scans.

I swear everytime i come back after a break from here you have a different name lol Ain't it the truth. The slow witted baffoons gets enthralled with the pretty pictures and never actually pay attention to what is really happening. Thank goodness for you and Galan, and juntai and some others. Or the insanity would be ever spreading like a cancer.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Ain't it the truth. The slow witted baffoons gets enthralled with the pretty pictures and never actually pay attention to what is really happening. Thank goodness for you and Galan, and juntai and some others. Or the insanity would be ever spreading like a cancer.

Thanks for the compliment. Much appreciated

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Thanks for the compliment. Much appreciated
No Thank you. Your debates with certain Posters are legendary and always a thrill.

Meh, this wont end well.

at people having digs at Mr master, seam's like you're all hurt by him pwning you all constantly.

Originally posted by fangirl101
No Thank you. Your debates with certain Posters are legendary and always a thrill.

Originally posted by skyfather
at people having digs at Mr master, seam's like you're all hurt by him pwning you all constantly. Lulz at being one of the mindless chattle.

I don't know what everyone else is laughing at, but I bet it's stupendous!

Originally posted by fangirl101
Lulz at being one of the mindless chattle. Truth seamed to hurt you the most.

Originally posted by skyfather
Truth seamed to hurt you the most. I haven't given a position in this thread. Nothing has hurt me dear. I just find it funny that the chattle defend someone who wasn't even named. It's also funny that you would immediately think of Him as the person who is being talked about. Truth be told, No one singular individual was even spoken about. It was the masses of idiots who are enthralled by pretty pics that was the topic of discussion. And then you reply. Makes me wonder.

Skypappy spells 'seems' wrong twice.

Nv... Fangirl refers to Mr Master with a capital H, in 'him' as in God...

Seems reasonable to me.

Originally posted by fangirl101
I haven't given a position in this thread. Nothing has hurt me dear. I just find it funny that the chattle defend someone who wasn't even named. It's also funny that you would immediately think of Him as the person who is being talked about. Truth be told, No one singular individual was even spoken about. It was the masses of idiots who are enthralled by pretty pics that was the topic of discussion. And then you reply. Makes me wonder. lulzit's so obvious at who is being implied at(scans etc),it's funny that you and others are to cowardly to say it.

Originally posted by skyfather
lulzit's so obvious at who is being implied at(scans etc),it's funny that you and others are to cowardly to say it. The forum rules prevent such. As it is, I was refering to the masses of idiots who never actually read the scans or know actual comic lore and history. They take what is fed to them as the law. Lulz. You aren't one of the chattle are you?

Originally posted by fangirl101
The forum rules prevent such. As it is, I was refering to the masses of idiots who never actually read the scans or know actual comic lore and history. They take what is fed to them as the law. Lulz. You aren't one of the chattle are you? one of the chattle???if that means master pwns you every time then yes.

Originally posted by skyfather
one of the chattle???if that means master pwns you every time then yes. Only chattle would think so.

wtf is a chattle?

Originally posted by Mindset
wtf is a chattal? According to firefox, it's spelled wrong.

Chattel.

Why did you change my post to say chattal?

you chattle

Originally posted by Mekrob
According to firefox, it's spelled wrong.

Chattel. Your sig is disturbing.

Originally posted by Mindset
Why did you change my post to say chattal?

you chattle Because I right clicked and accidentally corrected it. Then I put an 'a' in there as I suspected that's what everyone else was doing.

For an explanation.

bump

Originally posted by fangirl101
Your sig is disturbing. His old avatar was as well. Let's face it bran is just creepy.