Your Amalgam vs Silver Surfer

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



Philosophía
Like the other thread.

Combine 3 characters, under herald level, to beat Silver Surfer.

Kris Blaze
Wolverine + Molly Hayes + Chase Stein.

Unlimited adrenaline + plot strength + awesome.

The Nuul
Heres what to use.....

Metahuman (Mid-tier "Iron Man" level)

High
Abomination, Adam Strange, Aquaman, Ares (Marvel), Atlas, Aurora, Batman 1 Million, Battalion (Jackson King), Blastaar, BOX I (Roger Bochs), Captain Britain, Captain Marvel Jr, Colossus (U), Crystal, Death's Head II, Donna Troy, Emma Frost, Ghost Rider II, Grim Reaper, Guardian II (Heather Hudson), Havok, Hellstrike, Hercules (Mortal), Holocaust, The Human Torch (U), Invisible Woman (U), Iron-Man (U), Jean Grey (sans Phoenix), Jenny Sparks, Juggernaut (Depowered), Kang, Karate Kid, Living Laser, Machine Man, Manbot, Mandarin, Mary Marvel, Maul, Mercer Drake, Metallo, Mimic (Exiles), Miss Martian, Mr. Fantastic (U), Mr. Sinister, Namor the Sub-Mariner (U), Nico Minoru, Nightshade, Nimrod, Northstar, Ocean Master, Osiris, Pitt, Polaris, Power Girl, Psylocke, Radioactive Man, Sand, Sasquatch, Shassa, She-Hulk, Spiral, Starfire, Storm, Supernova, Temugin, The Thing (U), Thunderstrike, The Tick, Ulik, Ultimo, Vision, War Machine, Windshear, Wonder Man, Zzaxx

Middle
Aegis, Atom Smasher, Attuma, Balder, Beast Boy, Bishop, Blink, Blob, Blue Beetle (Jamie Reyes), Blue Devil, Bombshell, Booster Gold, Carnage, Cloak, Corrin, Cyborg, Cyclops (U), Darkhawk, Death's Head, Death Wreck, Dust, Electro, Elijah Snow, Farenheit, Flint, Fuji, Ghost Rider (Johnny Blaze), Ghost Rider(Dan Ketch), Grace Choi, Hawkgirl, Hawkman, Hellion, Karolina Dean, Kymaera/Namorita, Lightning Lad, Matua, M.O.D.O.K., Molly Hayes, Moonstone, Morlun, Ms. Marvel, Nova Richard Rider (classic), Ogun, Omega Red, Quicksilver (classic), Ragman, Rogue, Rom, Sebastian Shaw, Shadowcat, Shift, Steel, Terra, Thunder, Tiger Shark, Toxin, Vance Astro, Vengeance, Venom, Victor Mancha, Wonder Girl

Low
3-D Man, Ambrose Chase, Angel, Arachne, Arana, Azrael, Beast, Black Canary, Black Tarantula, Blade, Blue Beetle (Dan Garrett), Bruenor Battlehammer, Century, Charcoal, Charlie 27, Constrictor, Creeper, Cyber, Dagger, Deadpool, Deathlok, Deathstroke the Terminator, Doc Ock, Drizzt Do'Urden, Elixer, Falcon, Firehawk, Gambit, Green Goblin, Hobgoblin, Iron Fist, Jakita Wagner, Karnak, Kid Devil, Killer Croc, Klaw, Lady Deathstrike, Longshot, Luke Cage, Man-Bat, Marrina (Normal), Mercury, Midnighter, Mister Hyde, Multiple Man, Mysterio, Mystique, Nightcrawler, Nuke, Orka Humbug, Prometheus, Protocide, Puck, Puma, Rage, Sabretooth, Shang Chi, Silver Samurai, Speedball, Speedfreek, Spider-Man (U), Spider-Man 2099, Spider-Woman, Swift, Thunder Cats, Tombstone, Triathalon, Vance Astro, Vanguard, Vermin, Vulture, Warlock (Technarchy/Phalanx), Warpath, Wildchild, Wizard, Wolverine (U), Wulfgar, X-23


And heres what NOT to use.....


Herald

High
Adam Warlock, Baron Zemo (w/ Moonstones), Doomsday (Gog Wars), The Eradicator (Fortress Mode), Genis-Vell, Green Lantern (Hal, Kyle, Alan), Infinity-Man, Kurse, Majestic, Moonstone (w/ both stones), Quasar, Qztr, Silver Surfer, Sinestro, Solomon Grundy (Peak), Spartan 3.0, Stardust, Superman (including B/R, KC, and AS), Swamp Thing, Talisman, Thor, The Void, Zoom II (Hunter Solomon)

Middle
Alexander Nero, Beta Ray Bill, Binary, Black Adam, Black Bolt, Cable (Full Power), Captain Atom, Cpt. Comet, Captain Marvel (DC), Count Nefaria, Damien Hellstrom, Etrigan, Evinlea, The Fallen One, Firelord, Firestorm, The Flash II (Barry Allen), The Flash III (Wally West), The Flash IV (Bart Allen), The General (Shaggy Man), General Zod, Gladiator, Green Lantern (Guy, John, Katma, Kilowog), Hulk, Hyperion, Ikaris, Imperiex Probes, Juggernaut (Classic), Kid Omega, Lobo, Loki, Magus (Post-IG), Martian Manhunter, Maxima, Metamorpho, Mon-El, Morg, Nate Grey, Orion, Rachel Summers (Phoenix II), Red Shift, Sentry, Sersi, Shaman, Skreet, Supergirl, Supreme, Terrax the Tamer, Void, Waverider, Wildfire, Witchfire (Demon Form), Wonder Woman

Low
Absorbing Man, Air Walker, Animal Man, Apocalypse, Apollo, Argent, The Atom, Aztek, Bizarro Superman, Breach, Cassandra Nova, Cir-El, Damage, Darkness, Darwin, Death's Head 3.0, Death Metal, Doomsday (DOS), Dr. Doom (U), Dr. Invincible, Dr. Light, Dr. Light II (Kimiyo Hoshi), Dr. Polaris, Drax The Destroyer, Enchantress, Engineer, Exodus, Fin Fang Foom, The Flash I (Jay Garrick), Forerunner, Gammid, Gamora (w/Godslayer), Gilgamesh, Gold Key Solar, Gorilla Grodd, Graviton, Green Lantern (Soranik Natu), Guardian I (James Hudson), He-Man, Hector Hammond, Iceman, Invincible, Isis, Jade, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Jack of Hearts, Jericho, Kalibak, Krypto, Lightray, Living Monolith, Loki (Ultimate), Lunatik, Madison Jeffries (BOX IV), Magneto (U), Major Force, Makkari, Man-Beast, Manchester Black, Marrina (Leviathan), Mar-Vell, Matrix Supergirl, Meggan, Mongul, Monica Rambeau (Pulsar), Mr. M, Nova (Frankie Raye), Nova Richard Rider (current), Plastic Man, Prime, Professor X, Raven, Ravenous, The Ray, Red Tornado, Ronan the Accuser, Saturn Girl, Selene (External), Shadow King, Snowbird, Starhawk, Starman, Super Skrull, Superboy, Tempest, Thor (Ultimate), Ultra Boy, Ultra-Humanite, Ultron, Union, Vulcan, Wendigo, Winter, Witchfire (Normal), Zauriel

Enyalus
Donna Troy, Ghost Rider (pick one), and Pitt.


...I'm not too confident in their ability to get the job done, though. Maybe Penance Stare would do it before he tossed Amalgam into a black hole or something.

D_Dude1210
How is supreme middle herald? stick out tongue Haven't read Image in a while, but wasn't he based on PC Superman?

Enyalus
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
How is supreme middle herald? stick out tongue Haven't read Image in a while, but wasn't he based on PC Superman?

Well look who else is in that category: BA (a teamwrecker), CM, WW, Count Nefaria (a teamwrecker), Wally, Mon-el, etc....

The Nuul
This is a lot harder than the Thor thread.

D_Dude1210
Originally posted by Enyalus
Well look who else is in that category: BA (a teamwrecker), CM, WW, Count Nefaria (a teamwrecker), Wally, Mon-el, etc....

Yeah but.

If Majestic is high herald, so should Supreme.

They are, after all, evenly matched.

The Nuul
Mr. Fantastic + Pitt + Northstar


I was hoping for a good old beat down, no way to match blasting power with him and TP powers wont work.

Enyalus
Originally posted by The Nuul
Mr. Fantastic + Pitt + Karate Kid


I was hoping for a good old beat down, no way to match blasting power with him and TP powers wont work.

I set up something close to this...then realized none of them could fly so scrapped it and went with what I went with lol.

The Nuul
Yeah...dammit.... mad

But SS is faster than the ppl in high meta.

D_Dude1210
Ghost Rider, Multiple Man and Powergirl! smile

Dozens of supertough Powergirl copies to attack the Surfer at once hoping for a Penance Stare to take down the Surfer.

The Nuul
Surfer is pure of heart, which the stare does not work on right? Same with his soul. He was forced to do bad things, once free he stop all of that.

D_Dude1210
Well, current surfer was reverted, I thought. And I would think the souls of the billions he's killed as herald would kinda weigh him down a bit. stick out tongue

Though if the penance stare doesnt work, maybe Wolverine for them uberclaw, healing and combat prowess?

AlmightyKfish
Originally posted by The Nuul
Surfer is pure of heart, which the stare does not work on right? Same with his soul. He was forced to do bad things, once free he stop all of that.

Nah, the stare works on you no matter how pure your heart is. I dunno if it would work on Surfer, as the PC might screw with the stare.

If it did work, Surfer is going to be in a very bad way. The pain and suffering of the billions of people he's effectively murdered would hurt.

janus77
wouldn't Surfer be too fast for anyone to attempt the Penance Stare?

I'd look for characters that can stop time (even if it is just locally), combine them with a prep-master (Doom) and give them a good shield (Magneto?).

none of that need be high herald, I suspect.

id369
Jean Grey, Celeste, & Ghost Rider.

Jean Grey, draws out a shard of the Phoenix Force from Celeste. Ghost Rider is basically their, to ensure that Jean/Celeste does not get one shooted.

The Nuul
If gets draws out any PF shes above MH level.

Naija boy
Surfer has resisted the soul gems soul suck, im dont think the penance stare will be very effective.

Digi
Originally posted by Naija boy
Surfer has resisted the soul gems soul suck

When was this? I never remember anyone specifically trying to remove his soul with the gem. The closest I can think of is when Adam Warlock kicked Surfer's ass inside Gemworld.

occultdestroyer
Originally posted by The Nuul
Heres what to use.....


And heres what NOT to use.....


That hierarchy is a mess.

Naija boy
Originally posted by Digi
When was this? I never remember anyone specifically trying to remove his soul with the gem. The closest I can think of is when Adam Warlock kicked Surfer's ass inside Gemworld.

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/3440/silversurfer198801619soxn0.jpg

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/8549/silversurfer198801620sohi5.jpg

Its when Reed and sue were under the influence of Chaos and Order

golem370
Supernova has a good chance alone

Ambient
Mr. fantastic/Black Panther + Technarchy Warlock + Ms. Marvel...

Could potentially depower Surfer +++ absorbing capabilities is insane = Binary ...

id369

Da Pittman
Baby Memi + Rouge + Wither

(Can't be hurt, can't touch and kills you with just a touch) As long as he doesn't get near them he will be OK stick out tongue big grin

Kris Blaze
Originally posted by occultdestroyer
That hierarchy is a mess.

Got any complaints take it to a vote and stop bitching.

Digi
Originally posted by Naija boy
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/3440/silversurfer198801619soxn0.jpg

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/8549/silversurfer198801620sohi5.jpg

Its when Reed and sue were under the influence of Chaos and Order

Cool.

Galan007
Azrael M*
Pitt
Mandarin

Galan007
Originally posted by Naija boy
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/3440/silversurfer198801619soxn0.jpg

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/8549/silversurfer198801620sohi5.jpg

Its when Reed and sue were under the influence of Chaos and Order Hmm, Mephisto's soul sucking ability is equal to the soul gem's? Good feat for him.

Naija boy
Originally posted by Galan007
Hmm, Mephisto's soul sucking ability is at least equal the soul gem's? Good feat for him.

I dont really think so. I cant really remeber mephisto actually trying to forcefully take surfers soul away from him. Heck i remember him mentioning that he needed surfer to willingly give it up to him. Further, in the graphic novel referenced in that scan ( i think it was silver surfer judgement day), Mephisto didnt try to suck surfers soul but tried to trick him into willingly giving it up.

Galan007
Originally posted by Naija boy
I dont really think so. I cant really remeber mephisto actually trying to forcefully take surfers soul away from him. Heck i remember him mentioning that he needed surfer to willingly give it up to him. Further, in the graphic novel referenced in that scan ( i think it was silver surfer judgement day), Mephisto didnt try to suck surfers soul but tried to trick him into willingly giving it up. I dunno. Surfer implied that Mephisto's attempts to steal his soul, are what taught him to resist the soul gem's powers. *shrugs*

Naija boy
Yes, but mephisto's attempts on surfers soul are actually not in the same vein as the soul suck from the gem so i dont think saying Mephisto soul powers= Soul Gems is an accurate statement. (I also remeber Adam warlock actuallysoundly beating mephisto in his own realm using the soul gem)

Galan007
Originally posted by Naija boy
Yes, but mephisto's attempts on surfers soul are actually not in the same vein as the soul suck from the gem so i dont think saying Mephisto soul powers= Soul Gems is an accurate statement. (I also remeber Adam warlock actuallysoundly beating mephisto in his own realm using the soul gem) If that's the case, then Surfer's comment in the scans you posted makes no sense at all.

Naija boy
Originally posted by Galan007
If that's the case, then Surfer's comment in the scans you posted makes no sense at all.

Perhaps. But surfer did say that another "sought" his soul which does not exclusively refer to forcefully trying to suck his soul out. And since the being in question is mephisto then its more likely that surfer develop resistance to all manner of attacks on his soul by repeated attempts from mephisto ( even though they werent in the same vein as that attempted by the soul gem). Further when Mephisto and warlock with the soul gem actually matched up in his own domain, Mephisto was defeated "soundly" (mephistos own words). So Mephisto soul powers being= Soul gems really isnt true.

Galan007
Originally posted by Naija boy
Perhaps. But surfer did say that another "sought" his soul which does not exclusively refer to forcefully trying to suck his soul out. Surfer also says - "his failed assaults have taught me how to resist."

But yeah, it really doesn't matter either way. Those scans prove your point nicely (ie. Surfer can resist teh soul suck.)

Originally posted by Naija boy
So Mephisto soul powers being= Soul gems really isnt true. Which is why I said that Surfer's comment makes no sense.

Naija boy
Originally posted by Galan007
Surfer also says - "his failed assaults have taught me how to resist."


True but similar to the use of the word "sought", the word "assaults" does not definitively explain how mephisto went about attempting to take surfers soul.



Depending on interpretation it could make sense as it would not necessarily equate mephisto with the soul gem.

Ambient
Originally posted by Naija boy
I dont really think so. I cant really remeber mephisto actually trying to forcefully take surfers soul away from him. Heck i remember him mentioning that he needed surfer to willingly give it up to him. Further, in the graphic novel referenced in that scan ( i think it was silver surfer judgement day), Mephisto didnt try to suck surfers soul but tried to trick him into willingly giving it up.
SS # 100 he took it by force

Another time was when he went to the dimension of the totality of the Other was infected and died, he soul roam aimlessly on Earth and Mephisto forcefully tried to take it.. Actually a really good feat for Surfer, he soul posses some kind of power, he was w/ out PC...
hmm should put that in his RP thread..

Another one is in a graphic novel..

Naija boy
Originally posted by Ambient
SS # 100 he took it by force

Another time was when he went to the dimension of the totality of the Other was infected and died, he soul roam aimlessly on Earth and Mephisto forcefully tried to take it.. Actually a really good feat for Surfer, he soul posses some kind of power, he was w/ out PC...
hmm should put that in his RP thread..

Another one is in a graphic novel..

Actually in SS 100 he didnt take it by force at all. Surfer willingly pledged his "mind body and soul" to Nova in SS 99. After he had done this he found out that Nova was actually mephisto in disguise and hence he had pledged his soul to mephisto. Mephisto was hence only able to take his soul cause SS had willingly given it to him (despite it being through deception) and he(mephisto) continuously emphasizes this fact.

Also the other instance u are referring to happened in SS 136 where both SS and mephisto were dead. In that instance mephisto didnt try to take surfers soul (he couldnt because he was no longer lord of hell at that point but was simply a roaming soul just like surfer), he simply tried to stop surfer from moving on and hence engaged him in battle so that the period of time surfer had to move on would expire. He would then be forever trapped on earth just like mephisto.

Then in the graphic novel (silver surfer Judement day) mephisto tries to make a deal with surfer for surfer to willingly give him his soul. He didnt try to forcefully take it without surfers consent.

Galan007
Originally posted by Naija boy
Actually in SS 100 he didnt take it by force at all. Surfer willingly pledged his "mind body and soul" to Nova in SS 99. After he had done this he found out that Nova was actually mephisto in disguise and hence he had pledged his soul to mephisto. Mephisto was hence only able to take his soul cause SS had willingly given it to him (despite it being through deception) and he(mephisto) continuously emphasizes this fact. thumb up

Surfer offers his 'mind/body/soul' to Mephisto (disguised as Nova):

http://s1d2.turboimagehost.com/t/1494200_s0.jpg http://s1d2.turboimagehost.com/t/1494201_s00.jpg http://s1d2.turboimagehost.com/t/1494202_s000.jpg

----

Mephisto takes Surfer's soul, and emphasizes the fact that he is only able to do this because Surfer willingly surrendered it:

http://s1d2.turboimagehost.com/t/1494203_s1.jpg http://s1d2.turboimagehost.com/t/1494204_s2.jpg http://s1d2.turboimagehost.com/t/1494205_s3.jpg

darthgoober
Originally posted by Galan007
Surfer also says - "his failed assaults have taught me how to resist."

But yeah, it really doesn't matter either way. Those scans prove your point nicely (ie. Surfer can resist teh soul suck.)

Which is why I said that Surfer's comment makes no sense.
Surfer's got lots of little inconsistencies like that, most of the time it's better to overlook them rather than stress out over it. I remember onetime they actually rectonned his confrontation where he beat on all the Inhumans except Blackbolt to include Fork Head in the battle, thus giving him a completely unusable win over the head Inhuman(which really pisses me off)...

Martian_mind
Multiple man/Nightshade/Supernova.

Galan007
Originally posted by darthgoober
Surfer's got lots of little inconsistencies like that, most of the time it's better to overlook them rather than stress out over it. I remember onetime they actually rectonned his confrontation where he beat on all the Inhumans except Blackbolt to include Fork Head in the battle, thus giving him a completely unusable win over the head Inhuman(which really pisses me off)... Agreed. Things like that are bound to happen with characters who've appeared in a ridiculous amount of comics.

Ambient
Originally posted by Naija boy
Actually in SS 100 he didnt take it by force at all. Surfer willingly pledged his "mind body and soul" to Nova in SS 99. After he had done this he found out that Nova was actually mephisto in disguise and hence he had pledged his soul to mephisto. Mephisto was hence only able to take his soul cause SS had willingly given it to him (despite it being through deception) and he(mephisto) continuously emphasizes this fact.

Also the other instance u are referring to happened in SS 136 where both SS and mephisto were dead. In that instance mephisto didnt try to take surfers soul (he couldnt because he was no longer lord of hell at that point but was simply a roaming soul just like surfer), he simply tried to stop surfer from moving on and hence engaged him in battle so that the period of time surfer had to move on would expire. He would then be forever trapped on earth just like mephisto.

Then in the graphic novel (silver surfer Judement day) mephisto tries to make a deal with surfer for surfer to willingly give him his soul. He didnt try to forcefully take it without surfers consent.
Oh yeah, totally forgut about the latter issues that lead to that...

This one however Mephisto did try, i know he was no longer lord of hell as Blackheart took over but he was amassing souls to grow his power so as to take back his realm.. Surfer soul supposed would make him far stronger. He was still able to take ones soul, he had lots on him.. Least how i remembered..

Your right again on this one, my memory of it was too foggy big grin ..

Naija boy
Originally posted by Ambient

This one however Mephisto did try, i know he was no longer lord of hell as Blackheart took over but he was amassing souls to grow his power so as to take back his realm.. Surfer soul supposed would make him far stronger. He was still able to take ones soul, he had lots on him.. Least how i remembered..



Yes mephisto was amassing souls but he mentions that the souls "pledged their loyalty" to him and hence it wasnt a forceful takeover. Further mephisto while describing his greatly diminished powers says that he can only"influence some souls pushing them into the occasional depraved and detestable act, but im barely a shadow of my former self. So once again he couldnt forcefully take the souls.

darthgoober
You know I've been thinking about the Surfer/Mephisto thing and I may have found grounds for Surfer's statement. Even if Surfer willingly surrendered his soul to Mephisto, if he had to fight to take his soul back FROM Mephisto it kinda fits the description and circumstance...

psycho gundam
mephisto killed mockingbird (retconed to be a skrull) in satannish's realm, i'm assuming he kept the soul afterward since he was handing satannish an ass whipping and stealing his souls.

he probably just can't kill surfer these days, he most likely could have in the past but he was more interested in having surfer break so he could claim pretty much one of the noblest souls in the universe.

Mindset
Originally posted by psycho gundam
he probably just can't kill surfer these days Why not?

Ambient
Originally posted by Naija boy
Yes mephisto was amassing souls but he mentions that the souls "pledged their loyalty" to him and hence it wasnt a forceful takeover. Further mephisto while describing his greatly diminished powers says that he can only"influence some souls pushing them into the occasional depraved and detestable act, but im barely a shadow of my former self. So once again he couldnt forcefully take the souls.
Here i thought he was... Darn proven wrong again. lol

However this contradicted how he handled to take Surfer's soul and thats by way of force.. I don't have the comics here but im pretty sure it involved mystical energies being thrown.

Naija boy
Originally posted by Ambient
Here i thought he was... Darn proven wrong again. lol

However this contradicted how he handled to take Surfer's soul and thats by way of force.. I don't have the comics here but im pretty sure it involved mystical energies being thrown.

Well he and surfer did fight each other. But he wasnt actually trying to take surfers soul but rather was trying to simply prevent him from moving on and hence have the opportunity to torment him for all time.

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.