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When Galen died he had just previously defeated Vader who was 80% of Sidious's strength. Can it be questioned that Galen Marek was stronger than Vader? At the time, he had Vader completely at his mercy and could have killed him, but didn't. Galen was a quasi-Jedi and a hell of a lot stronger than Luke in ROTJ and stronger than Obi-Wan. So is it safe to assume he was stronger than Vader? I'm not making any assumptions or stating my opinion, but is a very good question.

Obviously.

Originally posted by Vengeful Koala
Obviously.

In form of Force potency ability and usage definately, sabers however I believe vader would have him. Since a qoute from TFU novel says that approx "Vader was overpowering him until he used the force to rip Vader's saber from his grasp."

Or something like that.

He was never "overpowering" him, from the analysis I've seen. The best he did was scorch Marek's clothing.

Originally posted by Vengeful Koala
He was never "overpowering" him, from the analysis I've seen. The best he did was scorch Marek's clothing.

Hmph, well Vader certainly kicked my behind on TFU.

Alas, Galen Would win overall anyway so what does it matter.

I have a question: which canon is actually stronger? The novel canon? Or the cut-scene canon? Because, I mean, in the cut-scene, Marek kicks the shit out of Vader, all-out. I don't know about the novel.

Since Marek kinda, you know, beat Vader, ermm

Originally posted by Major Valerian
I have a question: which canon is actually stronger? The novel canon? Or the cut-scene canon? Because, I mean, in the cut-scene, Marek kicks the shit out of Vader, all-out. I don't know about the novel.

I honestly don't know. I could see it going either way. The reasons for the novel being higher canon is obvious but at the same time the videogame was the main object of TFU merchandise (novel,comic, and game) sort of like the movie was in relation to the novel.Though i prefer/hope it is the novel because of the details of the fights.

How does the fight go in the novel?

I would definitely take the novel over the game in most cases, especially since we can't really say for certainty which one of the games shows us the "real" story; the Wii, 360/PS3, PS2, PSP, and DS versions all have differences in the cutscenes. They all point to the same outcome - Vader gets his ass kicked, hard - but the exact details are often contradictory.

as far as story goes, the game was a sad sad breach of canon that lucasarts has yet to pull off. As zero punctuation said "apparently this game is supposed to tie the prequel series to the orginal trilogy which raises the question 'why would we want to do this terrible thing?' Its like tying your breakfast to a plague rat.'
and
"i mean Christ, luke sky walker was supposed to be some sort of force prodigy and the most he could do is move a lightsaber by grimacing it for an hour, and here's this lad clearing an entire hallway with a cough."

Its really a sickening twisted failure at storytelling that needs to be declared uncanon.

Well, true he's extremely powerful in the Force, but he's not the only one to do things on that scale, a kid in the Coruscant Nights series did some pretty amazing things too. And Luke has done some pretty impressive things, I just think it took them longer to show Luke's feats because they had to flesh his character out, Galen Marek was meant to die young, so they could just let him go all out from the get go.

Really a waste of a character. I know he had no real future because he doesn't show up in the films, but if that was true they should have just done something else entirely.

I would have rather had a game like that following the story of some jedi with an unknown fate... say, quinlan vos. He could die and start the rebellion and stuff in the same way and it would tie up a main story arch involving one of my favorite characters.

Technically, it was because of him that the whole rebellion was started. Plus his families symbol was adopted by the Rebellion, without Galen Marek, there is no Rebellion, which in turn means there is now new Alliance.

I haven't played the game or read the book, but this is false. The Novelization of RotS (and deleted scenes from the movie) contradict this: Padme spoke with the instigators of the rebellion (Mon Mothma (sp?) etc.) before Anakin's fall.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
I haven't played the game or read the book, but this is false. The Novelization of RotS (and deleted scenes from the movie) contradict this: Padme spoke with the instigators of the rebellion (Mon Mothma (sp?) etc.) before Anakin's fall.

The spelling of Mon Mothma is correct.

Padme did speak to the instigators of the rebellion but it was Galen's sacrifice that firmly set the idea of rebellion in their minds and

Originally posted by KingD19
Technically, it was because of him that the whole rebellion was started. Plus his families symbol was adopted by the Rebellion, without Galen Marek, there is no Rebellion, which in turn means there is now new Alliance.

is correct they unveiled the Marek family crest and it was used as the symbol of the Rebellion.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
I haven't played the game or read the book, but this is false. The Novelization of RotS (and deleted scenes from the movie) contradict this: Padme spoke with the instigators of the rebellion (Mon Mothma (sp?) etc.) before Anakin's fall. Yup, but there was still no cohesion. Garm Bel Iblis comes to mind: apparently after Bail died on Alderaan, he and Mon Mothma lacked a moderator between them and he left to wage a "private war". That same... difference was present before TFU and it was Marek who unified them under a leader and banner. He only lasted about 20 seconds but still, point remains.

Plus he also f*$%#& up that 7'2 asthmatic with the torso lite brite.

That reminds me, I have to find an ATM.

I'll play a little devil's advocate - since Marek is stronger than Vader, does that mean he would have been stronger than Luke? He at least would have been on par with Mace, Yoda and Kyp.

It matters not. Vader has had his china body (and china mind) exposed enough times.

They fought on a Space Station and Vader suffered a knock down and was further exposed as a hype job when he got the ceiling collapsed on his head. He was then knocked down again.

Vader had a china body (it was armored, and he still got put on his ass by mere kicks) and was KOED in this fight.

Starkiller did not train for that fight, and yet he easily won.

He didn't "easily won", they were on equal footing and marek was nearly throttled to death earlier in the fight until he reached his clarity and kicked his ass.

Honestly, you seriously are anti-vader.

Originally posted by DorianYates
He didn't "easily won", they were on equal footing and marek was nearly throttled to death earlier in the fight until he reached his clarity and kicked his ass.

Honestly, you seriously are anti-vader.

Vader is all about "woulda, coulda and shoulda!".

He is exposed as a china bodied, poor fighter at all major points in the saga.

For example, against Obi-wan, he had all the advantages, and Kenobi had his mind else where.

Vader is the Peter Mcneely of Star Wars, and I am being very kind at that.

Originally posted by Happy_Sith
Vader is all about "woulda, coulda and shoulda!".

He is exposed as a china bodied, poor fighter at all major points in the saga.

For example, against Obi-wan, he had all the advantages, and Kenobi had his mind else where.

Vader is the Peter Mcneely of Star Wars, and I am being very kind at that. You don't actually know much about the saga then, do you?

Originally posted by Happy_Sith
Vader is all about "woulda, coulda and shoulda!".

He is exposed as a china bodied, poor fighter at all major points in the saga.

For example, against Obi-wan, he had all the advantages, and Kenobi had his mind else where.

Vader is the Peter Mcneely of Star Wars, and I am being very kind at that.

Calling Vader the Mcneely of SW shows the level of your bias. The guy handled himself against many dangerous foes including the Dark Lady, 6 Jedi in purge, Maul and he killed Palpy while enduring fatal lightning, he had a tremendously high threshold of pain to complement resourcefullness and skill. How does that even correlate to Mcneely? And unlike Sith like Bane, Nadd et al he actually functioned at a galactic scale.

Oh, what a bunch of cry-babies I face!

Yes, I admit I am biased!

I am biased toward fighters with non-glass bodies, and non-rubbish records.

If Vader ever gets a record in which he beats a padawan without major drama, do tell.

Originally posted by Happy_Sith
Oh, what a bunch of cry-babies I face!

Yes, I admit I am biased!

I am biased toward fighters with non-glass bodies, and non-rubbish records.

If Vader ever gets a record in which he beats a padawan without major drama, do tell.

Good thing you're not in charge of quality control at LA, we'd be bombarded by an even greater number of ho-hum Sith Lords with even more derivative and unimaginative stories.

Originally posted by Allankles
Good thing you're not in charge of quality control at LA, we'd be bombarded by an even greater number of ho-hum Sith Lords with even more derivative and unimaginative stories.



With a superior imagination, Lewis would have lost to Grant in 2. In fact, Botha would have had him in one.

Tyson would have, oh... been gone in 3 against Douglas (instead of 10), and Berkick? Well, let's just say that Ali's genes would have picked up super powers instead of Parkinson's!

In the end though, china/emo Vader, is a main character of Star Wars, and you should take a hint from Lucas and embrace him.

Meanwhile, non china chinned Sith Lords Live: It is why Bane is around (and don't forget the retard Sion)

No really, what the f*ck is wrong with you?

I have just seen through hype-jobs like Vader.


In a better era, Vader would have been exposed a lot quicker.

I am going to have a nap, but I will be back later.

So to give you an idea of just how exposed Vader would be, let me put him in the position of a Sith who had his record tested: Darth Bane.

***********

In the Brotherhood of Darkness. Anakin has been staring at Githany for the past month. Now he gets to meet her.

Githany: Hi Anakin

Anakin: I will do whatever you ask!

Githany: Get on your knees and I will give you a footjob

Anakin: OK

Githany: OK. Now I will Kill you

Anakin: I love you so much that my death will mean little. My rock band will live on

**********************************

So, Anakin is dead.

Originally posted by Happy_Sith
So to give you an idea of just how exposed Vader would be, let me put him in the position of a Sith who had his record tested: Darth Bane.

***********

In the Brotherhood of Darkness. Anakin has been staring at Githany for the past month. Now he gets to meet her.

Githany: Hi Anakin

Anakin: I will do whatever you ask!

Githany: Get on your knees and I will give you a footjob

Anakin: OK

Githany: OK. Now I will Kill you

Anakin: I love you so much that my death will mean little. My rock band will live on

**********************************

So, Anakin is dead. You're about eleven years old aren't you?

I'll give him 11 1/2 at most.

... Footjob?

At the risk of being presumptuous, I call fetish.

I do recall him (her?) once saying something that made me like him (her?), so all is good.

Originally posted by Happy_Sith


With a superior imagination, Lewis would have lost to Grant in 2. In fact, Botha would have had him in one.

Tyson would have, oh... been gone in 3 against Douglas (instead of 10), and Berkick? Well, let's just say that Ali's genes would have picked up super powers instead of Parkinson's!


Yeah! Reality can be a motherf*@**%, that's why the decent stories reflect that. Vader reflects that, imo.

You love Bane off of a couple of forgettable novels, that tells me SW is better without people like you managing quality control with the stories.

We don't need an even higher influx of ho-hum Sith, in stories as flavourless as starch.

Originally posted by Allankles
Yeah! Reality can be a motherf*@**%, that's why the decent stories reflect that. Vader reflects that, imo.

You love Bane off of a couple of forgettable novels, that tells me SW is better without people like you managing quality control with the stories.

We don't need an even higher influx of ho-hum Sith, in stories as flavourless as starch.

Well, I think that Zannah will be extremely powerful in the next Bane book (way more powerful than Padme: the woman who pwned Vader), so I look forward to it.

Also, there are characters so powerful in Star Wars that they are close to being perfect. For example, Darth Revan is a "Gary Stu". This means that the author makes him ridiculously powerful/perfect.

So, it is not as if Bane is the only Great character.

Originally posted by Happy_Sith
Well, I think that Zannah will be extremely powerful in the next Bane book (way more powerful than Padme: the woman who pwned Vader), so I look forward to it.

Also, there are characters so powerful in Star Wars that they are close to being perfect. For example, Darth Revan is a "Gary Stu". This means that the author makes him ridiculously powerful/perfect.

So, it is not as if Bane is the only Great character.

Revan was a gary stu in terms of background story with the Mando wars and his life before the Mando wars, he was brought down to Earth to some degree with the beginning of Kotor 1 when he is captured by Bastila.

I recognize that some people like the direction Drew K. went with Bane after Jedi vs Sith, but I don't particularly think it was the best direction.

Plus the Bane books don't have the scope I was expecting, I don't mean galactic level wars, I mean we're not given a good picture of the internal workings of the galaxy i.e. the era isn't fleshed out enough which reduces the impact of the story IMO.

Also, in ROT Zannah didn't come off as a convincing Sith let alone the heir apparent to the DLOTS.

I do realize it's hard to write stories where the outcome is set in stone, however Drew. K could have done more with the personalities and motivations of these two lead characters.

I agree. The author could have done way more with these characters, but even as flawed as the story is, Bane is still awesome.

And I am betting Zannah will be even more powerful

Originally posted by KingD19
I'll give him 11 1/2 at most.

Way off.

200. Yup, 200.

I do recall him (her?) once saying something that made me like him (her?), so all is good.

Yes,

I admitted that Ani was pretty hawt in episode 3. Seriously - credit where credit is due.

Originally posted by Happy_Sith
Oh, what a bunch of cry-babies I face!

Yes, I admit I am biased!

I am biased toward fighters with non-glass bodies, and non-rubbish records.

If Vader ever gets a record in which he beats a padawan without major drama, do tell.

Very well.

Vader managed to murder a saber instructor and battlemaster Cin Drallig at the Jedi Temple while choking and killing his padawan, Bene, at the same time.

There you go.

Vader was an extremely powerful Sith Lord. Although not really a fan of Vader myself, I can't discredit the fact that he was by far the second strongest Sith Lord in history. I can't say that Caedus was number two because he had a very short career as a Sith.

Before Vader was in a body suit, he probably would have been damn near unstoppable. Sure he had clone help purging the Temple, but he killed numerous Jedi without help.

I'll make it more interesting - DS Galen Marek vs Vader pre-body suit.

Caedus has already been proclaimed to be more powerful than Vader.

You know what's weird? Caedus may have been stronger, but he never fully developed his strength - never really completed his Sith training. But it can be argued that Marek could defeat Caedus.

Can you drop the "Caedus didn't complete his sith training" card already. It is really old ( and has been dealt with already) and it does not hinder him in battle in fact it was said in Bloodlines that "the only gaps in his knowledge of the Force were those of the Sith." It has already been stated in Invincible that his "command of the Force surpasses even that of his grandfather Darth Vader," that's canon Caedus>Vader and there are a few other sith that could be ranked above Vader such as Bane and Nihilus.

Originally posted by Happy_Sith
Vader is all about "woulda, coulda and shoulda!".

He is exposed as a china bodied, poor fighter at all major points in the saga.

For example, against Obi-wan, he had all the advantages, and Kenobi had his mind else where.

Vader is the Peter Mcneely of Star Wars, and I am being very kind at that. You really know shit about star wars do you? Now my little advice to your tiny homophobic body and brain is to keep your unwanted, irritating irrational opinions to yourself.

I don't care if you hate vader or not, but your childish and snobbish attitude is beginning to irritate me. Now keep it cool friend and take your finger out of your ass and clean it.

And one question, judging by your post do you happen to be racist or biased against the chinese?

If vader is so pathetic as you say i wonder why the hell is sidious even keeping him in the first place seeing that he himself stated he is going to have a hard time finding a jedi even half as powerful

Funny how vader the weakling could collapse a massive hut in TFU rather easily, dispose a jedi that ripped steel apart and nearly beat the shit out of galen marek before getting the smackdown

Caedus was stronger simply because of the fact that he had his whole body, and he wasn't restricted by a master like Sidious. Lumiya wanted Jacen to surpass her, so she didn't limit his training at all. Sidious wanted to keep absolute power, and he had Vader on a very tight leash. Also, Vader was amazingly crippled by his suit and injuries. If he hadn't been reduced to a torso and burnt to a crisp, he would have undoubtedly been one of the top 5 Sith Lords of all time.

If he didn't get his injuries, he, according to lucas would had been the strongest force user to ever live. Twice the power of DE sidious.

Originally posted by KingD19
Caedus was stronger simply because of the fact that he had his whole body, and he wasn't restricted by a master like Sidious. Lumiya wanted Jacen to surpass her, so she didn't limit his training at all. Sidious wanted to keep absolute power, and he had Vader on a very tight leash. Also, Vader was amazingly crippled by his suit and injuries.
Way to state the obvious



He still could be in the top 5 now. (excluding unknowns)

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
I can't discredit the fact that he was by far the second strongest Sith Lord in history. I can't say that Caedus was number two because he had a very short career as a Sith.
Or not.
Originally posted by Darth Truculent

Before Vader was in a body suit, he probably would have been damn near unstoppable. Sure he had clone help purging the Temple, but he killed numerous Jedi without help.
Fascinating. None of us knew any of that. Thank you for your deep and insightful analysis of the events of episode three.

Originally posted by DorianYates
Now keep it cool friend and take your finger out of your ass and clean it.

LMAO!

That shit is so profiled.

Caedus had no sith training. He had the luxury of a piss poor story line written by retarded authors. He "magically" gained sith powers when he chose his sith name. If that's not the dumbest plot in star wars, I don't know what is.

Originally posted by DorianYates





Hi. I am pleased to meet you, but I think I have encountered your work before:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=425997&pagenumber=1

If you could take some clonazepam ASAP I would appreciate it.

Originally posted by Major Valerian
Very well.

Vader managed to murder a saber instructor and battlemaster Cin Drallig at the Jedi Temple while choking and killing his padawan, Bene, at the same time.

There you go.

Thanks.

I'll process that info...

Yup, Vader still sucks.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Caedus had no sith training. He had the luxury of a piss poor story line written by retarded authors. He "magically" gained sith powers when he chose his sith name. If that's not the dumbest plot in star wars, I don't know what is.

LOTF is the best representation of the pitfalls of Post ROTJ SW - the overwhelming rough surrounding a few sparse gems.

Originally posted by Happy_Sith
Hi. I am pleased to meet you, but I think I have encountered your work before:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=425997&pagenumber=1

If you could take some clonazepam ASAP I would appreciate it. Nice attempt to irritate me *yawns*

Just shows how desperate you are for trying to get dramatic to get attention.

@To anyone else arguing with this "Happy sith", don't bother, you can't convince an individual with a single digit IQ that he is wrong or change his views due to his bias.

Originally posted by Happy_Sith
Thanks.

I'll process that info...

Yup, Vader still sucks.

Wow, fantastic rebuttal. Congratulations.

He isn't racist at all.

China = porcelain

FYI

Originally posted by Happy_Sith
Thanks.

I'll process that info...

Yup, Vader still sucks. blatant fanboyism/stupidity?

Hell yes. Single digit IQ too.

Originally posted by DorianYates
Nice attempt to irritate me *yawns*



Thanks, but why are you yawning?

Originally posted by Happy_Sith
Thanks, but why are you yawning?

He was implying that your post was not interesting, even as an example of incompetence.

While the dictionary tells us that yawning is caused by being fatigued, drowsy or bored, scientists are discovering that there is more to yawning than what most people think. Not much is known about why we yawn or if it serves any useful function, and very little research has been done on the subject. However, there are several theories about why we yawn. Here are the three most common theories:

The Physiological Theory -- Our bodies induce yawning to drawn in more oxygen or remove a build-up of carbon dioxide. This theory helps explain why we yawn in groups. Larger groups produce more carbon dioxide, which means our bodies would act to draw in more oxygen and get rid of the excess carbon dioxide. However, if our bodies make us yawn to drawn in needed oxygen, wouldn't we yawn during exercise? Robert Provine, a psychologist at the University of Maryland, Baltimore County, and a leading expert on yawning, has tested this theory. Giving people additional oxygen didn't decrease yawning and decreasing the amount of carbon dioxide in a subject's environment also didn't prevent yawning.

The Evolution Theory -- Some think that yawning is something that began with our ancestors, who used yawning to show their teeth and intimidate others. An offshoot of this theory is the idea that yawning developed from early man as a signal for us to change activities.

The Boredom Theory -- In the dictionary, yawning is said to be caused by boredom, fatigue or drowsiness. Although we do tend to yawn when bored or tired, this theory doesn't explain why Olympic athletes yawn right before they compete in their event. It's doubtful that they are bored with the world watching them.

source: http://www.howstuffworks.com/question572.htm

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
He was implying that your post was not interesting, even as an example of incompetence.


Odd. I am not sure why he would quote it if he was not the least bit interested. I certainly have interest in posts I quote.

Otherwise, I would not quote them.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
While the dictionary tells us that yawning is caused by being fatigued, drowsy or bored, scientists are discovering that there is more to yawning than what most people think. Not much is known about why we yawn or if it serves any useful function, and very little research has been done on the subject. However, there are several theories about why we yawn. Here are the three most common theories:

The Physiological Theory -- Our bodies induce yawning to drawn in more oxygen or remove a build-up of carbon dioxide. This theory helps explain why we yawn in groups. Larger groups produce more carbon dioxide, which means our bodies would act to draw in more oxygen and get rid of the excess carbon dioxide. However, if our bodies make us yawn to drawn in needed oxygen, wouldn't we yawn during exercise? Robert Provine, a psychologist at the University of Maryland, Baltimore County, and a leading expert on yawning, has tested this theory. Giving people additional oxygen didn't decrease yawning and decreasing the amount of carbon dioxide in a subject's environment also didn't prevent yawning.

The Evolution Theory -- Some think that yawning is something that began with our ancestors, who used yawning to show their teeth and intimidate others. An offshoot of this theory is the idea that yawning developed from early man as a signal for us to change activities.

The Boredom Theory -- In the dictionary, yawning is said to be caused by boredom, fatigue or drowsiness. Although we do tend to yawn when bored or tired, this theory doesn't explain why Olympic athletes yawn right before they compete in their event. It's doubtful that they are bored with the world watching them.

source: http://www.howstuffworks.com/question572.htm





I laughed out loud. Srsly.

The Evolution Theory -- Some think that yawning is something that began with our ancestors, who used yawning to show their teeth and intimidate others. An offshoot of this theory is the idea that yawning developed from early man as a signal for us to change activities.



Very interesting actually. I saw an episode of Mythbusters that covered yawning, but the evolutionary theory was not touched on.

Here is a better link:

http://mythbustersresults.com/episode28

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
While the dictionary tells us that yawning is caused by being fatigued, drowsy or bored, scientists are discovering that there is more to yawning than what most people think. Not much is known about why we yawn or if it serves any useful function, and very little research has been done on the subject. However, there are several theories about why we yawn. Here are the three most common theories:

The Physiological Theory -- Our bodies induce yawning to drawn in more oxygen or remove a build-up of carbon dioxide. This theory helps explain why we yawn in groups. Larger groups produce more carbon dioxide, which means our bodies would act to draw in more oxygen and get rid of the excess carbon dioxide. However, if our bodies make us yawn to drawn in needed oxygen, wouldn't we yawn during exercise? Robert Provine, a psychologist at the University of Maryland, Baltimore County, and a leading expert on yawning, has tested this theory. Giving people additional oxygen didn't decrease yawning and decreasing the amount of carbon dioxide in a subject's environment also didn't prevent yawning.

The Evolution Theory -- Some think that yawning is something that began with our ancestors, who used yawning to show their teeth and intimidate others. An offshoot of this theory is the idea that yawning developed from early man as a signal for us to change activities.

The Boredom Theory -- In the dictionary, yawning is said to be caused by boredom, fatigue or drowsiness. Although we do tend to yawn when bored or tired, this theory doesn't explain why Olympic athletes yawn right before they compete in their event. It's doubtful that they are bored with the world watching them.

source: http://www.howstuffworks.com/question572.htm

We yawn to cool our brains.

Lucas had RotS to ANH phobia...he didn't want to touch it with a rubber glove on, but the people who wrote the story for lucas to approve were brave, and lucas gave into his deepest darkest fear

tbh, i think it was a good game, and though people have trouble linking in canonically to the film saga, i thought it tied the 6 films together. sure there were places where i though "wtf is going on here", but other than that it explains where the rebellion came from to same extent. and it explains why palpatine is reluctant to show himself to many people...

the literature, i think, would be more canon though. simply because of the differing circumstances in cutscenes, and of course...everyone can buy a book, not everyone has a games console

I never understood why Vader apparently became weak because of his lava bath. If we're going to take the midi-chlorian argument, that he lost a lot of them when he lost his limbs and his skin was torched, well:

A) He still has more midi-chlorians per cell than Yoda

B) He probably still has more cells than Yoda

Therefore, Vader should still be pretty darn powerful, even moreso than Yoda, especially when you factor in the fact that the dark side is apparently stronger (according to Lucas on the AOTC commentary track).

But I never thought that midi-chlorians were even "power level" indicators to begin with, but just natural aptitude with the Force. Rather than "ceiling" to your potential, midi-chlorians just give you a stronger connection to the Force before you actually work at it. This would seem to be reinforced by Yoda saying "Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter."

"But Sith power resided not in the flesh but in the will... Vader's real weaknesses were psychological rather than physical, and for Vader to overcome them he would need to be driven deeper into himself, to confront all his choices and his disappointments." - Sidious, Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader

As for the actual question at hand, I'll answer it indirectly... Galen Marek wasn't more powerful than Sidious. Sidious was trying to convert Marek to the dark side to become his apprentice, and gave him the illusion that he was defeated. This is particularly clear in the non-canon dark side ending, when Sidious doesn't joke around and just beats him like a drum.

As for whether Marek was more powerful than Vader, I think Sidious' desire to replace Vader stemmed more from his psychological damage and the side effects of his cybernetic limbs, which didn't weaken him literally, but robbed him of the ability to summon Force lightning, and possibly other things.

And based upon my view of the midi-chlorians, Marek certainly could have become more powerful than Vader by strengthening his connection to the Force through training, and he wouldn't have had the same psychological damage and cybernetic limbs.

But that's just my interpretation, and it could certainly be flawed if not wrong.

Vader's weakened state was due largely to his mental condition following Mustafar. To him he had: been betrayed, wiped out his family (for all intents and purposes), become a mechanical monster, and realized about a month following RoTS that Palpatine was an evil bastard who had manipulated him for years.

Not having any natural limbs and an irreparable respiratory system would be a hamper too.

Barringer, IMO Marek had the possible potential to surpass Sidious in the Force. At his death, he had really not even begun his Jedi training. What if he completed it on Dagobah with Yoda? As to Vader losing midi-chlorian count, I beg to differ. Just because you lost your limbs doesn't mean you lost the number of midi-chlorian count per cell.

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Barringer, IMO Marek had the possible potential to surpass Sidious in the Force. At his death, he had really not even begun his Jedi training. What if he completed it on Dagobah with Yoda? As to Vader losing midi-chlorian count, I beg to differ. Just because you lost your limbs doesn't mean you lost the number of midi-chlorian count per cell.

I agree about the midi-chlorians. Either you misunderstood me or I didn't articulate myself well about that.

Sorry about that - just read something that I took offense too: how can a stormtrooper defeat a US Marine? NEVER!

Originally posted by Happy_Sith
Odd. I am not sure why he would quote it if he was not the least bit interested. I certainly have interest in posts I quote.

Otherwise, I would not quote them. Simple, it was to blatantly show out that i was bored at your post.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Vader's weakened state was due largely to his mental condition following Mustafar.

And his sith armour that's keeping him alive, it restricts his movement compaired to sith/jedi that have training from a young age. He's still geting used to the movement he's had to adopt and the limitations to all of his limbs, like how far he can bend them.

This why when he becomes suited Vader, he changes his fighting style. I notice though that Anakins stance did change with his maturity (i.e. Ep2: arc'd over his back, Ep3: tilted to one side covering his body, Vader Ep4-Ep6: points his saber foward with the hilt end almost touching the bottom of his torso...if other people can be more elaborate, corrections would be cool

I disagree that vader was to hampered. The energy doent function through mechanical means,like his body and machine parts,yet some say its because the machinery is why he had weakened,without nerve endings,the energy could have not passed through the entire nervous system and would not beable to use the force to its fullest;eg such as lightning.

Again Even machines are part of the force,just not very good conductors and for that reason vader wasnt as powerful,but so long as he could will the energy,it shouldnt have hampered him much. All it takes is a desire and focus to use it.

Technically i figured vader more poweeful then starkiller,thats why i had a seperate post on starkillers powers and strength. Im conviced though if starkiller where to have more time to develope he may of been stronger then vader. So vader in a young state could of crushed starkiller..but vader in an old stae could not.

Originally posted by darthbane99
would not beable to use the force to its fullest;eg such as lightning.

I agree with that, tis a shame though. Would of been cool to see vader use force lightning, but he probably would of killed himself...i mean, look what it did to him when he was trying to kill palpatine...

Hey your online,at the same time! Well its true why is it so hard to control it with a suit of Amory

It was like that in KOTOR i remember, if you wore the sith armour you'd loose health or not even been able to use lightning...can't remember which

you were right about garen, if he'd trained more as a jedi, sidious would of been toast...burnt, smelly toast.

I think vader already pushed galen to his maximum potential, galen would have never surpassed what sidious did in dark empire

Originally posted by darthbane99
I disagree that vader was to hampered. The energy doent function through mechanical means,like his body and machine parts,yet some say its because the machinery is why he had weakened,without nerve endings,the energy could have not passed through the entire nervous system and would not beable to use the force to its fullest;eg such as lightning.

Again Even machines are part of the force,just not very good conductors and for that reason vader wasnt as powerful,but so long as he could will the energy,it shouldnt have hampered him much. All it takes is a desire and focus to use it.

Technically i figured vader more poweeful then starkiller,thats why i had a seperate post on starkillers powers and strength. Im conviced though if starkiller where to have more time to develope he may of been stronger then vader. So vader in a young state could of crushed starkiller..but vader in an old stae could not. Vader WAS phsyically hampered. That doesn't mean he didn't have speed greater than the average non-Force-user, but he would have been MUCH faster were his limbs intact.

As a Force-user though, Vader just got stronger and stronger. COULD have been more though.

Yes, could have been more but sidious limited vaders training alot.