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who wins.

Emperor Joker from what i've heard. Who can beat this character? Didnt he completely own the Spectre?

Joker. The Pheonix force has enough power to destroy the universe if provoked or angry enough, but Emperor Joker destroyer every universe there is and recreated them in his imagine.

It's basically Joker with almost complete access to Mr. Mxy's powers.

So, anyone over Mxy. That.......is a very short list. Even LT would hard pressed to stop Mxy. The IG is jack to him. Even Cosmic Extant would probably fail.

Joker.

LT might be able to stop him, but not the IG. Mxy is just flat out more powerful.

LT has absolutley no showing that would make me think he'd be able to stop Mxy.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Well him being more powerful then IG is a start

IG has absolutley no showing that would make me think he'd be able to stop Mxy either.

Not enough. Mxy shits on the IG.

is weilder of IG limited by 5th D?

4 all we know IG has no upper dimension limit

facepalm

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
is weilder of IG limited by 5th D?

4 all we know IG has no upper dimension limit

...............What?

Either way EJ for the win.

Emperor Joker wins easily.

EJ.


And if an alternate Zatanna can stop Mxy, the IG sure as hell could. Ditto for the LT, with ease.

I refuse to consider that garbage from countdown as indicative of Mxy's true abilities. Especially because MXY DOES NOT USE MAGIC.

Therefore, that falls under the forum rules allowing us to ignore bullshit. doped

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I refuse to consider that garbage from countdown as indicative of Mxy's true abilities. Especially because MXY DOES NOT USE MAGIC.

Therefore, that falls under the forum rules allowing us to ignore bullshit. doped

Cool with me. I like Mxy. I thought it was lame as hell that a ****ing Superman made him his b*tch.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I refuse to consider that garbage from countdown as indicative of Mxy's true abilities. Especially because MXY DOES NOT USE MAGIC.

Therefore, that falls under the forum rules allowing us to ignore bullshit. doped what about when specter took away his powers?

edit> or when he seeled all of 5thD becuz Antimonitor was threatning the omniverse

Hang on. Spectre is a lousy example, and that was not the regular Mxy. That was Earth 2 Mxy. He does use magic, so that works.

And come to think of it......that might have been an alternate Mxy in Countdown, but I can't be sure.

And the threat was not AM. It was Mandrakk. It's quite obvious now that Mandrakk was what he was scared of. Cause I'm fairly sure it wasn't Darkseid and the ALE.

EJ violates Phoenix

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Hang on. Spectre is a lousy example, and that was not the regular Mxy. That was Earth 2 Mxy. He does use magic, so that works. ?? it was regular mxy iirc
btw science in DC > magic? (whats the point in havin magic then :/ )

Wasn't Mxy playing with Superman Prime for fun?

Originally posted by Galan007
Yes, an alternate Zatanna must also be >> Spectre (as Mxy's easily trounced him several times on panel.)

If you say so. Far be it from me to argue with you.

Originally posted by Enyalus
If you say so. Far be it from me to argue with you.

And yet An alternate zatanna couldn't bring back Superboy prime's universe. But prime knew that mxy could bring back the entire reality. makes you wonder huh.

Originally posted by fangirl101
And yet An alternate zatanna couldn't bring back Superboy prime's universe. But prime knew that mxy could bring back the entire reality. makes you wonder huh.

Except for Mxy himself stating that he couldn't, sure...

Originally posted by Galan007
Even though a universe is all that was mentioned during the IG saga, it's one of those cases where the writers really meant every universe in Marvel. Just ask..... certain people.

duryes

Of course.

Funnily enough though, even if he had influence over the whole of Marvel, it still wouldn't put him over Mxy, imo.

The Phoenix Force is a joke to Emperor Joker.

He turns the Phoenix into his own image.
A twisted smiling purple duck of some sort.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
The Phoenix Force is a joke to Emperor Joker.

He turns the Phoenix into his own image.
A twisted smiling purple duck of some sort.
LMAO

Comparing boths feats

Emperor Joker is able to do alot more

He wins

the Phoenix sucks anyway

Originally posted by Enyalus
Except for Mxy himself stating that he couldn't, sure... no. Mxy stated he couldn't bring it back becuz he didn't know of it. He'd never been there and could'nt bring back what he didn't know. Lulz.

Originally posted by fangirl101
no. Mxy stated he couldn't bring it back
Originally posted by Enyalus
Except for Mxy himself stating that he couldn't, sure...




"lulz" to you, too.

Originally posted by celestialdemon
Emperor Joker wins easily. This.

Originally posted by Enyalus
If you say so. Far be it from me to argue with you. looney

Srsly though, if you think about Mxy's well established antics (ie. creation-busting,) this little scuffle with Prime just doesn't come close to making sense on any level - it literally defines PIS. That's why I never understood people using it against Mxy in versus threads.

Originally posted by Galan007
looney

Srsly though, if you think about Mxy's well established antics (ie. creation-busting,) this little scuffle with Prime just doesn't come anywhere close to making sense on any level - it literally defines PIS. That's why I never understood people using it against Mxy in versus threads.

'Cept the Creation busting wasn't in a canon appearance. But if I haven't said so before, I too think EJ takes it.

I just think saying Mxy > LT is ridiculous.

Originally posted by Enyalus
'Cept the Creation busting wasn't in a canon appearance. I assume you're referring to 'World's Funnest'? Hypertime aside, one of the many realities Mxy/Mitey visited during that comic was the DCU immediately following the events of COIE - and there was only one COIE (that much is fact.)

Originally posted by Galan007
I assume you're referring to 'World's Funnest'? Hypertime aside, one of the many realities Mxy/Mitey visited during that comic was the DCU immediately following the events of COIE - and there was only one COIE (that much is fact.)

World's Funnest isn't canon. And Hypertime itself was discontinued/retconned by DC.

Originally posted by Enyalus
World's Funnest isn't canon. And Hypertime itself was discontinued/retconned by DC. Umm, I just told you the reason it is canon. Choosing to ignore such a blatant fact is your thing.

And Hypertime has been mentioned in several comics since 'Kingdom' (one of which being an issue of 52/Countdown.)

Originally posted by Galan007
Umm, I just told you the reason it is canon. Choosing to ignore such a blatant fact is your thing.

And Hypertime has been mentioned in several comics since 'Kingdom' (one of which being an issue of 52/Countdown.)

Its an Elseworlds tale (and I have it on my computer and freakin' can't find it now, damnit!). All Elseworlds are non-canon.

As far as Hypertime goes, Executive Editor Dan DiDio said it'd be invalid post IC or something like that.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Its an Elseworlds tale (and I have it on my computer and freakin' can't find it now, damnit!). All Elseworlds are non-canon.

As far as Hypertime goes, Executive Editor Dan DiDio said it'd be invalid post IC or something like that. Except it's been mentioned post IC, in 52.

http://img409.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hypertimerz3.jpg

Waverider, the seer of hypertime, keeper of divergent realities.

Originally posted by Juntai
http://img409.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hypertimerz3.jpg

Waverider, the seer of hypertime, keeper of divergent realities.

It doesn't surprise me that DC contradicts itself...

But that's not even important. The part about Worlds Funnest being noncanon is. And that stands. 'Cause it was an Elseworlds.

Elseworlds like Kingdom Come?

Or Elseworlds like Gotham by Gaslight?

Originally posted by Enyalus
I just think saying Mxy > LT is ridiculous.

Lets get back on topic

Emperor Joker vs Phoenix Force thx

Or maybe you mean elseworlds like the story of a Superman that landed in Russia in Red Son?

Originally posted by Enyalus
All Elseworlds are non-canon.
I assure you, this is 100 percent untrue.

Originally posted by Juntai
Elseworlds like Kingdom Come?

Except that the KC universe was later brought into the DC Multiverse as E-22, as you well know. And being later referenced in canon JSA stories.

World's Funnest? No.




I haven't read Gotham so I can't comment.

Originally posted by Juntai
I assure you, this is 100 percent untrue.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Except that the KC universe was later brought into the DC Multiverse as E-22, as you well know. And being later referenced in canon JSA stories.
Originally posted by Enyalus
All Elseworlds are non-canon.
Sounds like competing theories.
Might I suggest a debate between posters?

Originally posted by Juntai
Sounds like competing theories.
Might I suggest a debate between posters?

wtf didn't the 52 finite series bring most of Elseworld stories as alternate earth of the same multiverse

also canon is a very subjective word

for example Spider-man will be non-canon for What if series
but Living Tribunal all titles in alternate reality should be cannon

Originally posted by Juntai
Sounds like competing theories.
Might I suggest a debate between posters?



"Non-canon sources are invalid for evidence. With rare exceptions, comics not in continuity such as Elseworlds, What Ifs, or alternate universes are not used for evidence in debates of a particular mainstream character."

I should've qualified my original statement by saying, "All Elseworlds are non-canon unless brought into the mainstream DCU later on"...Pardon me, I didn't think I needed to state the obvious.

Originally posted by Enyalus
"Non-canon sources are invalid for evidence. With rare exceptions, comics not in continuity such as Elseworlds, What Ifs, or alternate universes are not used for evidence in debates of a particular mainstream character."

I should've qualified my original statement by saying, "All Elseworlds are non-canon unless brought into the mainstream DCU later on"...Pardon me, I didn't think I needed to state the obvious.

No. Mxy is like the LT. All stories and realities are canon to him. I thought you knew that? Superman Batman 25 for the win.

Also as Galen stated, there was only ONE crisis. No alternate crisis could have taken place. Thus World's funnest is Canon.

Originally posted by fangirl101
No. Mxy is like the LT. All stories and realities are canon to him. I thought you knew that? Superman Batman 25 for the win.

Also as Galen stated, there was only ONE crisis. No alternate crisis could have taken place. Thus World's funnest is Canon.

I assume you're talking about the point he says, "No matter what time or universe, some version of you two exists! And when that balance is upset or uprooted...it upsets my life in the 5th dimension..." Except that doesn't really prove that all of Mxy's appearances are canon. Only if they appear within one of DC's 52 universes. Of which Worlds Funnest was clearly not. It was a fictional story and non-canon. And the KMC rules say its non-canon, too. So that creation-blast thing can't be used as one of Mxy's powers.

Another thing...you're citing Loeb as evidence? I didn't hear you or anyone else jumping to correct TP when he said this:
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Hang on. Spectre is a lousy example, and that was not the regular Mxy. That was Earth 2 Mxy. He does use magic, so that works.

And come to think of it......that might have been an alternate Mxy in Countdown, but I can't be sure.

I've also heard similar excuses about 'alternate Mxy' for Gog blowing a hole through him in The Kingdom, too. Seems strange no one ever brought up the 'One, Canon Mxy' argument before.

Originally posted by Enyalus
I assume you're talking about the point he says, "No matter what time or universe, some version of you two exists! And when that balance is upset or uprooted...it upsets my life in the 5th dimension..." Except that doesn't really prove that all of Mxy's appearances are canon. Only if they appear within one of DC's 52 universes. Of which Worlds Funnest was clearly not. It was a fictional story and non-canon. And the KMC rules say its non-canon, too. So that creation-blast thing can't be used as one of Mxy's powers.

Another thing...you're citing Loeb as evidence? I didn't hear you or anyone else jumping to correct TP when he said this:


I've also heard similar excuses about 'alternate Mxy' for Gog blowing a hole through him in The Kingdom, too. Seems strange no one ever brought up the 'One, Canon Mxy' argument before.
you shouldn't argue against the DC experts. Then we have to teach you. There was no 52 when mxy made the statement. As a matter of fact, mxy was bringing back alternates of Superman that shouldnt have existed any more.

Originally posted by fangirl101
you shouldn't argue against the DC experts. Then we have to teach you. There was no 52 when mxy made the statement. As a matter of fact, mxy was bringing back alternates of Superman that shouldnt have existed any more.

No shit. There wasn't a 52 during Worlds Funnest, either. Did you have a point or do you just like to read your own text? Because that really didn't justify your 'only one, canonical Mxy' stance. Considering Superman/Batman takes place within the mainstream DCU.

Originally posted by Enyalus
No shit. There wasn't a 52 during Worlds Funnest, either. Did you have a point or do you just like to read your own text? Because that really didn't justify your 'only one, canonical Mxy' stance.

You used 52. I was letting you know that you can't use 52 to debunk anything. 52 really means nothing anyway. Since it is known that each of the 52 is a multiverse on it's own.

There's quite a bit of evidence pointing to 'WF' being canon, and really nothing (besides Eny's opinion) saying otherwise.

Point: Eny is not to be trusted.


EJ ftw.

Originally posted by fangirl101
52 really means nothing anyway. Since it is known that each of the 52 is a multiverse on it's own.

Is this like the Marvel supporters saying things like, "so and so really created/destroyed the multiverse even though they only said universe." ? Because the Monitors, whose job it is to monitor the 52 universes, never once throughout Countdown or FC or any of the tie-ins like Superman Beyond refer to them as the 52 multiverses.

And, I don't know...they might know what they're talking about. I doubt it, but hey.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Is this like the Marvel supporters saying things like, "so and so really created/destroyed the multiverse even though they only said universe." ? Because the Monitors, whose job it is to monitor the 52 universes, never once throughout Countdown or FC or any of the tie-ins like Superman Beyond refer to them as the 52 multiverses.

And, I don't know...they might know what they're talking about. I doubt it, but hey.
OMG. It was stated that each of the 52 would be it's own multiverse. Do you read the authority? They visit alternate realties all of the time. None of which are of the 52.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Do you read the authority? They visit alternate realties all of the time.

I do. I know. I also recall in Captain Atom: Armaggedon them traveling to hundreds of alternate Earths. Can't remember if that was before or after IC, though. *shrug*

Originally posted by Enyalus
I do. I know. I also recall in Captain Atom: Armaggedon them traveling to hundreds of alternate Earths. Can't remember if that was before or after IC, though. *shrug*

There were no alternate realities before IC. According to some DC lore. But Mxy has always proclamed a myriad of realties. at any rate, WF is canon. i could go thru a long list of whys, but juntai and galen posted several good reasons.

Oh and Spectre prime is like the LT. only one of him. WF would be canon to him. He faced mxy.

It's still an Elseworlds/What-If type deal and can't be included as evidence of his powers displayed in the mainstream DCU, as per forum rules state.

Originally posted by Enyalus
It's still an Elseworlds/What-If type deal and can't be included as evidence of his powers displayed in the mainstream DCU, as per forum rules state. Sorry. Hypertime made the story canon.

and what if's can't be used for say spiderman. But certainly for the Lt since it's all canon to him. Same thing with mxy and the spectre. both of whom are in the story.

Originally posted by fangirl101
And yet An alternate zatanna couldn't bring back Superboy prime's universe. But prime knew that mxy could bring back the entire reality. makes you wonder huh. Meh, in the very same issue it was stated Mxy's 'magic' is more powerful than that of Annataz (or anyone, for that matter.) For me, all this does is further solidify the PIS-factor of said issue.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Except for Mxy himself stating that he couldn't, sure... He never stated that.


Originally posted by Juntai
http://img409.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hypertimerz3.jpg

Waverider, the seer of hypertime, keeper of divergent realities. Or how about Mxy himself referencing Hypertime in a Superman title?:

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u43/Galan007/th_mxyz5.jpg



Originally posted by Enyalus
Seems strange no one ever brought up the 'One, Canon Mxy' argument before. You mustn't have read my 'arguments' for Mxy, then.

Originally posted by Enyalus
It's still an Elseworlds/What-If Where canonicity is concerned, What If's and Elseworlds stories are completely different.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Is this like the Marvel supporters saying things like, "so and so really created/destroyed the multiverse even though they only said universe." ? Because the Monitors, whose job it is to monitor the 52 universes, never once throughout Countdown or FC or any of the tie-ins like Superman Beyond refer to them as the 52 multiverses. The 'several multiverse' theory makes more sense than you may think..

Why? Because it was already confirmed that DC would become a megaverse (ie. a cluster of multiverses):

http://s1d2.turboimagehost.com/t/1531834_mega1.jpg

So basically, the 'mainstream' DCU (which was also confirmed by Rip to be infinite) contains all of these alternate earths, and many/most of said earths are gateways to other multiverses (Wildstorm is a prime example.)

Originally posted by Galan007
The 'several multiverse' theory makes more sense than you may think..

Why? Because it was already confirmed that DC would become a megaverse (ie. a cluster of multiverses):

http://s1d2.turboimagehost.com/t/1531834_mega1.jpg

So basically, the 'mainstream' DCU (which was also confirmed by Rip to be infinite) contains all of these alternate earths, and many/most of said earths are gateways to other multiverses (Wildstorm is a prime example.) Yep, infinite timelines in each. In a similar manner to Marvel's multiverse. Where other universes are just numbered timelines. Not sure if that's what Rip is talking about there, but it seems to be true for DC's Earths anyways.