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Makes sense to me. It's probably a good thing as well.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Makes sense to me. It's probably a good thing as well.

I agree, smaller community churches will be better suited to help people spiritually, than mega-churches where 20k morons all flocking to see a charlatan prance about and ask for "donations."

The One True Church shall remain.

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
The One True Church shall remain.

Amen brother, going strong since '52.

http://maps.atlantadowntown.com/_files/images/churchs-chicken.jpghttp://www.fastfood.com/ChurchsChicken/pics/Churchs_Chicken_restaurant.jpg

Originally posted by Robtard
Amen brother, going strong since '52.

http://maps.atlantadowntown.com/_files/images/churchs-chicken.jpghttp://www.fastfood.com/ChurchsChicken/pics/Churchs_Chicken_restaurant.jpg

Yes, I like you.

Originally posted by Robtard
Amen brother, going strong since '52.

http://maps.atlantadowntown.com/_files/images/churchs-chicken.jpghttp://www.fastfood.com/ChurchsChicken/pics/Churchs_Chicken_restaurant.jpg

If all religions in the world were like that church, there would be no war. That's my kind of church.

Originally posted by UKR
If all religions in the world were like that church, there would be no war. That's my kind of church. Nope no war because we would all be to fat to care

Good riddance.

What the hell is evangelical Christianity?

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
What the hell is evangelical Christianity?

Joke?

I also have no idea what an evangelical christian is, I assume it's some thing that started and stayed in America for the most part, fortunately.

But you're both on the internet . . .

The freaking internet. With Yoogle and Gahoo and whatever else people use stuff to find things that aren't porn.


Anyway, it's the hardcore (ofen psycho) Christian version of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelism

I couldn't give less shit about your twisted cults in 'Mrica to search the internet for them or read some retarded Wikipedia page.

If I need answers on any part of Christianity, Catholic Encyclopedia is pretty rich on that sort of info. But since I care not to learn about this in depth...

What I wanted was a short brief on what the hell it is.

But hey, thanks for the link. Could you post instructions on how to click it?

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
... Could you post instructions on how to click it?

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I couldn't give less shit about your twisted cults in 'Mrica to search the internet for them or read some retarded Wikipedia page.

If I need answers on any part of Christianity, Catholic Encyclopedia is pretty rich on that sort of info. But since I care not to learn about this in depth...

What I wanted was a short brief on what the hell it is.

But hey, thanks for the link. Could you post instructions on how to click it?

Move mouse over the words that are underlined. Press down on the mouse until you here a clicking noise. The page will change at this point it is important to remember that YOU MUST NOT PANIC the change is supposed to happen. Next you should start reading. After a few moment (or longer if English isn't your native language) you will find this short brief on what the hell Christian Evangelism is:

"The intention of most Christian evangelism is to convert those who do not follow the Christian God to Christianity for the purpose of effecting eternal salvation... Some Christian traditions consider evangelists to be in a leadership position, and they may be found preaching to large meetings, and in governance roles. Christian groups who actively encourage evangelism are sometimes known as evangelistic or evangelist."

I know the internet is a big scary place but you need to give it a chance.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
But you're both on the internet . . .

The freaking internet. With Yoogle and Gahoo and whatever else people use stuff to find things that aren't porn They are idiots with an extremist view on Christianity, thats all I know and all I want to know.

From what I think I know (and what the idiots who preach on my campus scream at us about salvation) the big thing with evangelical Christianity is to save the souls of those who do not truly know God. It's like domestic missonary work.

Originally posted by chithappens
From what I think I know (and what the idiots who preach on my campus scream at us about salvation) the big thing with evangelical Christianity is to save the souls of those who do not truly know God. It's like domestic missonary work.

It's all about power. These people are being used by a few very rich and powerful people.

Along these lines, a series of not quite evangelical but ardent Christian churches have collapsed in my area in recent years. A lot of them combined into a kind of mega-church, which does quite well. It originally considered itself Baptist but has switched to nondenominational to accommodate the increasing numbers of outside Christian sects.

Obviously they don't have TV broadcasts or anything, but the church gives off an air of profundity in its size. But usually lost in that aura is the fact that numerous churches utterly failed to give rise to it. Perhaps its numbers have swelled some since its inception because a collective effort can be stronger than many smaller ones. But the total numbers of people attending from the area has dwindled significantly, compared to when the numerous smaller churches were all thriving. It's a false sense of size.

Clearly this only amounts to a case study, and not even that (more like an anecdote). But it makes the predictions and conclusions of the article at least slightly more plausible, since it has happened already in at least one place.

And to qualify the predictions, the number of "census" Christians (of any sect) seems more stable, but the active, attending people do seem to have decreased some. At least from my viewpoint.

....

I honestly hope the trend continues. Not because I harbor ill-will toward religion, but simply out of curiosity. The general trend in civilization through the centuries has been toward secularism and away from hardcore religion. And I personally don't think it's a coincidence that we're as aware of the world around us as we've ever been in history, and that despite the evil that will always exist in the world, civilized nations are as humane as any have been in recorded history. The link can obviously be traced to other causes, and I state such a theory only as opinion, but I personally believe that this correlation does in fact have enough merit to justify some causation between the two.

Originally posted by Digi
The general trend in civilization through the centuries has been toward secularism and away from hardcore religion.

really?

Originally posted by inimalist
really?

History has been shaped by people who questioned what was accepted. Much of the time that included religion. A lot of great thinkers were at least agnostic, even when they had no good explanations for why various things happened. Aristotle is probably the best known example, not only was he a pagan but he was a agnostic pagan and he still defined scientific thought for hundreds of years.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
It's all about power. These people are being used by a few very rich and powerful people.

Deano, that you?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
History has been shaped by people who questioned what was accepted. Much of the time that included religion. A lot of great thinkers were at least agnostic, even when they had no good explanations for why various things happened. Aristotle is probably the best known example, not only was he a pagan but he was a agnostic pagan and he still defined scientific thought for hundreds of years.

indeed, but to say that history progresses toward secularism is, imho, a little narrow. There are many places in the world today that are moving in the opposite direction, and even after secular Greek society, the Christians rose and conquered it.

I'm not really sure civilization is moving toward anything, especially a world where religion is not a dominant figure in the institutions of power.

Originally posted by inimalist
really?

That opinion springs primarily from the work of Stephen Pinker, who deals primarily with language as a cultural tool, but occasionally delves into meta-analysis of history, culture, and their trends.

But non-religious numbers are as high as they have ever been (percentages), even while the number of total religious adherents increases (3rd World population increase mostly). And among modernized nations the "in group vs. out group" conflict that has been previously defined by tribes, cities, nations, religions, etc. is fast becoming "world," "species," or even "living environment" which would include other sentient creatures and the earth itself. The trend is outward.

So yes, I see historical progress pointing that direction, and think we're as humane as we've ever been as a species, despite the obvious atrocities that have plagued every step of human civilization.

Originally posted by inimalist
indeed, but to say that history progresses toward secularism is, imho, a little narrow. There are many places in the world today that are moving in the opposite direction, and even after secular Greek society, the Christians rose and conquered it.

I'm not really sure civilization is moving toward anything, especially a world where religion is not a dominant figure in the institutions of power.

The 3rd World does make your argument compelling, but within our own country and most of Europe I stand by it. Religion is FAR less powerful an influence of the world than it has been in past eras. It is still strong, mind you, but that need not be false for my point to hold true.

I also think we're less susceptible to such "conquering" as you describe in our current day and age. Communications breakthroughs make such monopolies of thought nearly impossible anymore.

Whether or not my two points (more humane, less religion) are related is speculation, so I posit it only as opinion.

Originally posted by Digi
I also think we're less susceptible to such "conquering" as you describe in our current day and age. Communications breakthroughs make such monopolies of thought nearly impossible anymore.

I'll make a proper reply, but I just got a total kick out of my paranoid reaction to this:

Blackwater Worldwide, now called Xe, is owned by a man named Eric Prince....

Originally posted by Robtard
Deano, that you?

Originally posted by Digi
That opinion springs primarily from the work of Stephen Pinker, who deals primarily with language as a cultural tool, but occasionally delves into meta-analysis of history, culture, and their trends.

But non-religious numbers are as high as they have ever been (percentages), even while the number of total religious adherents increases (3rd World population increase mostly). And among modernized nations the "in group vs. out group" conflict that has been previously defined by tribes, cities, nations, religions, etc. is fast becoming "world," "species," or even "living environment" which would include other sentient creatures and the earth itself. The trend is outward.

So yes, I see historical progress pointing that direction, and think we're as humane as we've ever been as a species, despite the obvious atrocities that have plagued every step of human civilization.

The 3rd World does make your argument compelling, but within our own country and most of Europe I stand by it. Religion is FAR less powerful an influence of the world than it has been in past eras. It is still strong, mind you, but that need not be false for my point to hold true.

I also think we're less susceptible to such "conquering" as you describe in our current day and age. Communications breakthroughs make such monopolies of thought nearly impossible anymore.

Whether or not my two points (more humane, less religion) are related is speculation, so I posit it only as opinion.

you hit my point directly, however. It is only in this modern western context that we could try to build that argument. Even the renaissance had extremely religious overtones, so this "secularization" is what, 200 years at the most? and localized entirely in North America and Western Europe (though Europe is not as cut and dry).

Religion, to most people on the planet, is ascending in power.

And, I personally do not think our society is immune from Christian takeover again. The American armed forces are infiltrated to the highest levels by those who wish to spread Christianity around the planet, and who feel Jesus is the real leader of America. Not to mention how important a thriving economy is to science and invention. World wide recession is a climate much more suited to religion than science or reason.

Originally posted by inimalist
you hit my point directly, however. It is only in this modern western context that we could try to build that argument. Even the renaissance had extremely religious overtones, so this "secularization" is what, 200 years at the most? and localized entirely in North America and Western Europe (though Europe is not as cut and dry).

Religion, to most people on the planet, is ascending in power.

And, I personally do not think our society is immune from Christian takeover again. The American armed forces are infiltrated to the highest levels by those who wish to spread Christianity around the planet, and who feel Jesus is the real leader of America. Not to mention how important a thriving economy is to science and invention. World wide recession is a climate much more suited to religion than science or reason.

Fair points. I don't disagree with any of them. Hopefully the rest of the world can industrialize and/or modernize (the newer term) eventually and continue along as we have been, and we also don't regress into fear-driven religious renewal. Again, it's not that I dislike religion or its influence, but I don't see a move away from religion as a bad thing and would like to see where it leads.

Originally posted by Digi
Fair points. I don't disagree with any of them. Hopefully the rest of the world can industrialize and/or modernize (the newer term) eventually and continue along as we have been, and we also don't regress into fear-driven religious renewal. Again, it's not that I dislike religion or its influence, but I don't see a move away from religion as a bad thing and would like to see where it leads.

I totally agree with you

I am just less optimistic about where science and reason stand in our society.

Recent polls show huge support for science, but absolutely no knowledge of it whatsoever in in the general populace. For this reason, we see effective marketing campaigns of non-scientific ideas using scientific sounding rhetoric. ID as a scientific alternative to evolution, alternative medicine as opposed to herbalism.

To be totally honest, I don't necessarily see the west as any less "religious", just that people are less involved in the traditional organized religions. New age and ego centric spiritualism appears to be on the rise, along with what I could only call "conspiracy cults". Christianity may no longer be the dominant force in the west, but to call our society secular or rational, especially scientifically rational, is a long stretch.

I'd almost be willing to point to 9-10th century Iberia, maybe Baghdad for the centuries immediately preceding that, or classical Greece as times where, as a civilization, people were more interested in rational than magical thinking. I really don't see that from our society. Honestly, look at the power of "the secret".

Originally posted by inimalist
Honestly, look at the power of "the secret".

What secret? Tell me tell me tellmetellmetellmetelmetmtmtmtmtmtm!

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
What secret? Tell me tell me tellmetellmetellmetelmetmtmtmtmtmtm!

THE secret

the "power" of "positive" thinking

basically, think about something and it happens

God, I hate The Secret.

Also, thanks for ruining my pleasant buzz from this thread, in. I have no rebuttals.

this victory is only bittersweet

Originally posted by inimalist
THE secret

the "power" of "positive" thinking

basically, think about something and it happens

Which is bullshit. Not that I think positive thinking is bullshit, but relying on thinking to make things happen, instead of going about and actually making them happen.

Originally posted by Robtard
Which is bullshit. Not that I think positive thinking is bullshit, but relying on thinking to make things happen, instead of going about and actually making them happen.

I saw one of their "philosophers" on CBC news, who was claiming that the brain produces "positive" energy when it thinks positive thoughts, and that attract the positive energy of positive events.

It was at this point I shouted at the TV for 10 min

Originally posted by inimalist
I saw one of their "philosophers" on CBC news, who was claiming that the brain produces "positive" energy when it thinks positive thoughts, and that attract the positive energy of positive events.

It was at this point I shouted at the TV for 10 min

Wonder if that would have worked for the Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, retards etc during the holocaust.

Yet how much has this book sold because the cow that is Oprah masturbated over it on her show?

whats worse is that people don't seem to see the problem with taking scientific advice from ****ing oprah

but ya, I'd love 1% of the profits from the secret.