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Who takes it?

Sersi

i think maxima could take her.

They most certainly can take each other. It's a split IMO.

Sersi

Revisiting this, Maxima should win.

She's just a way better telepath with more quantifiable tp feats. She destroyed Braniac, blasted Orion unconscious, and she went so far as to take on Brainwave II (the guy who defeated the wisdom of Solomon via tp).

Factoring in transmutation is less necessary because they have similar powers. Sersi is better here, but I see this ending up in an astral battle more often than not.

Can Sersi defend against a speed blitz from Maxima?

^ teleport maybe
but I see this as a split

Split or edge to Maxima.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Can Sersi defend against a speed blitz from Maxima?

Is that all DC characters do is speedblitz?

lol, seriously, Maxima is pretty damn fast. Surprised Superman.

sersi would take her. strong enough to prevent a tp assault from winning it, and a far better transmuter. i see no way max could resist being transmuted when someone like thor stood zero chance.

Originally posted by leonidas
sersi would take her. strong enough to prevent a tp assault from winning it, and a far better transmuter. i see no way max could resist being transmuted when someone like thor stood zero chance.

Agreed. Sersi can also psionically amp her strength enough to KO the likes of Hercules with one punch.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Split or edge to Maxima.

Originally posted by leonidas
sersi would take her. strong enough to prevent a tp assault from winning it, and a far better transmuter. i see no way max could resist being transmuted when someone like thor stood zero chance.

Maxima could just shield herself like Sue did and be immune to any transmutation effects.

I'd give this to Maxima 7/10.

no real way to know if her shields would be as effective. and sersi could just shield herself as well from max's magneto-esque powers. once the shields are down big advantage to seris who can end it immediately.

Originally posted by The Dark Cloud
Agreed. Sersi can also psionically amp her strength enough to KO the likes of Hercules with one punch.

IIRC, she never KO Herc, just throw him....unless your talking about another fight.

Originally posted by leonidas
strong enough to prevent a tp assault from winning it

There is absolutely zero evidence to support this. The only possible thing you could bring up is Bloodties Exodus and you can't even debate it because the fight was not only ambiguous as to what powers each were using, Sersi didn't even pull off a definitive win. With all of this and the common knowledge rule on KMC in mind, Maxima would have to be seriously plagued with PIS to not directly engage in tp every time.

Originally posted by The Dark Cloud
Agreed. Sersi can also psionically amp her strength enough to KO the likes of Hercules with one punch.

Awesome feat, but Maxima is probably stronger still. She's personally gone toe to toe with Doomsday and was inflicting noticeable damage via physical strikes while tanking hits in return. If this were to go physical - which it won't - then Sersi would be defeated.

Originally posted by zopzop
Maxima could just shield herself like Sue did and be immune to any transmutation effects.

I'd give this to Maxima 7/10.

Invalid point. For one, that was a horribly written story. Secondly, Sue's force-fields are renowned for not having any material/atomic structure that can be manipulated. They also tend to block out ALL external forces and create rifts between Sue and her opponent, locking out their ability to channel energies through them. This trait has saved her many times. Maxima's powers are psionic and not at all comparable.

Originally posted by leonidas
no real way to know if her shields would be as effective. and sersi could just shield herself as well from max's magneto-esque powers. once the shields are down big advantage to seris who can end it immediately.

They probably wouldn't be, but telepathy is the real issue here. Magneto powers? What? Her powers aren't really similar to his at all, save for having a force-field and energy blasts... which plenty of characters have.

Originally posted by HandOfFate
IIRC, she never KO Herc, just throw him....unless your talking about another fight.

The tp threw him in one fight IIRC and also got pissed and backhanded him into unconsiousness in another. Good feats, but I think harming Doomsday is much more impressive.

Originally posted by Konton
There is absolutely zero evidence to support this. The only possible thing you could bring up is Bloodties Exodus and you can't even debate it because the fight was not only ambiguous as to what powers each were using, Sersi didn't even pull off a definitive win. With all of this and the common knowledge rule on KMC in mind, Maxima would have to be seriously plagued with PIS to not directly engage in tp every time.

well, you're wrong on a couple counts, but you're right in that she could try.

first, bloodties exodus is NOT the only evidence i could call on. i could also call on BLACK KNIGHT EXODUS, where they also battled. i have the thing somewhere, and am pretty sure that exodus managed to win in that battle, but i can't recall the exact context, but there was more to it thanhis simply overpowering her via tp. if i get time i'll try and find the book.

anyway, sticking to what you know--what is NOT ambiguous is the fact that were it THAT easy to take her out via tp, exodus would have won that avengers fight immediatley. also, it is clear from the comment regarding the 'psionic' nature of the powers that they are matching psionic abilities. could be just tk, but ..... that doesn't make sense to me. to think they relied on only one or the other in that fight makes both seem rather dim-witted. the fight ended basically because they didn't want to destroy the city, but not before sersi mentions she could fight forever. even allowing for hyperbole, she could outlast max imo.

what is also unambiguous is the fact that she has scanned the minds of the entire planet effortlessly on another occasion. planet-wide scanning feats are not something your average tp can accomplish. between those 2 facts (and coupled with other, less impressive but not insignificant feats), i'd say that she could more than handle her own against max in the area of tp. there's also her tk shields. no way to know for sure if they would block max's tp. not that it matters, really, because imo tp wouldn't win max the battle here. if it seemed she did have an edge, sersi could teleport away, turn the air to hydrochloric acid, then, while she's hurt, transmute her. i see sersi as having the advantage in this fight. max has zero defense against sersi's greatest power, and she CAN defend max's biggest weapon.



probably is kind of ambiguous, but you're right, it wouldn't get to that. even if it did, THAT wouldn't be an easy win either, though i agree were it STRAIGHT h2h--max wins.



huh? she's a ferrokinetic.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/33492/1090469-maxima_vs_redtornado_jla_vol2_75_super.jpg

http://img107.imageshack.us/i/maxmetalcontrol3xl.jpg/

she's ripped ships apart by the seams, wrapped atom in metal (just after the tower scene above). she's been called magneto-lite in the forums for as long as i can recall..... she has displayed VERY limited matter tranmutation skills on a couple other occasions--swapping clothes for instance. but metal is what she is expert in.

still, that won't help her here.

it's a close battle--i like each, but sersi only needs one small opening to finish it, and i think that's the deciding factor. along with her immortality, i think she could wait max out to find that opening.

Originally posted by leonidas
first, bloodties exodus is NOT the only evidence i could call on. i could also call on BLACK KNIGHT EXODUS, where they also battled. i have the thing somewhere, and am pretty sure that exodus managed to win in that battle, but i can't recall the exact context, but there was more to it thanhis simply overpowering her via tp. if i get time i'll try and find the book.

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/9102/blackknightexodus34.th.jpg

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/4375/blackknightexodus35.th.jpg

Her performance against Exodus in both instances was good, but not great -- demonstrated that she could hold her own, but ultimately would lose against Maxima, in my mind.

That said, those were NOT her most impressive showings. The Harras Sersi was a beast, easily the most powerful member of that Avengers team. Other versions have been flighty, and much less capable as a combatant/warrior -- Kirby's version, Gaiman's version -- despite being immensely powerful.

I'd say 50/50, overall. Maybe slight edge to Sersi.

Originally posted by inimalist
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/9102/blackknightexodus34.th.jpg

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/4375/blackknightexodus35.th.jpg

ah, yes. gracias my friend. that saved me a lot of effort. i thought dane distracted her or tried talking her out of it or something. dane went all out trying to save exodus during that issue. anyway, i think it serves my point--holdin exodus's mind is pretty impressive, imho. i think it says a lot about her being able to at least hold her own against max in the area of tp. that was also about 500 yrs before bloodties and sersi had shown some pretty impressive feats after that initial meeting. i'd be interesting in hearing what some thought were max's greatest tp feats. a psi-bolt to ko orion is impressive, but against sersi's shields wouldn't work. i know a couple that are pretty solid, but i'd love to hear what people consider to be her far superior tp feats?

Originally posted by Desaad
Her performance against Exodus in both instances was good, but not great -- demonstrated that she could hold her own, but ultimately would lose against Maxima, in my mind.

That said, those were NOT her most impressive showings. The Harras Sersi was a beast, easily the most powerful member of that Avengers team. Other versions have been flighty, and much less capable as a combatant/warrior -- Kirby's version, Gaiman's version -- despite being immensely powerful.

I'd say 50/50, overall. Maybe slight edge to Sersi.

that harras sersi WAS a beast. when i think of sersi, that's the sersi i use. kirby's version had some pretty great tranmutation feats though.

Originally posted by leonidas
ah, yes. gracias my friend. that saved me a lot of effort. i thought dane distracted her or tried talking her out of it or something. dane went all out trying to save exodus during that issue. anyway, i think it serves my point--holdin exodus's mind is pretty impressive, imho. i think it says a lot about her being able to at least hold her own against max in the area of tp. that was also about 500 yrs before bloodties and sersi had shown some pretty impressive feats after that initial meeting. i'd be interesting in hearing what some thought were max's greatest tp feats. a psi-bolt to ko orion is impressive, but against sersi's shields wouldn't work. i know a couple that are pretty solid, but i'd love to hear what people consider to be her far superior tp feats?

Well, it shouldn't have worked against Orion either. New Gods have demonstrated themselves to be immune to telepathy of the highest order. Not only from Martian Manhunter level TP, but from multiple martians uniting their minds/powers for an attack.

Originally posted by Desaad
Well, it shouldn't have worked against Orion either. New Gods have demonstrated themselves to be immune to telepathy of the highest order. Not only from Martian Manhunter level TP, but from multiple martians uniting their minds/powers for an attack.

i agree. but that scan helped me win a tournament with her.

i know max quite well, and while her tp skills ARE very good, i really don't see her outdistancing sersi by very much in that area.

that harras arc--the gatherers, proctor, etc....--is one of my personal comic faves. i have to go all the way back to the initial nefaria arc and korvac arcs to find a period of the avengers i enjoyed more i think.

Originally posted by leonidas
well, you're wrong on a couple counts, but you're right in that she could try.

first, bloodties exodus is NOT the only evidence i could call on. i could also call on BLACK KNIGHT EXODUS, where they also battled. i have the thing somewhere, and am pretty sure that exodus managed to win in that battle, but i can't recall the exact context, but there was more to it thanhis simply overpowering her via tp. if i get time i'll try and find the book.

Well, Sersi taking Exodus by suprise and still managing to get overpowered isn't exactly all that impressive. It means she can maybe avoid being overpowered by Maxima for maybe a few seconds lol



She's not defenseless, but telepathy is far from her area of expertise. I'd argue that the narration was still ambiguous because all of her powers are psionic. Eternals draw their power from the cosmos, but it's still all psionic once filtered through Sersi and applied. Again, I'll say that Exodus isn't quite as powerful as, say, WarWorld amped Braniac - who Maxima engaged on the astral plane. That alone is more than Sersi has been able to accomplish. Early Avengers material said Sersi could only influence those with a weaker will than hers =p



Scanning the entire planet means she surely has enough oomph to project her conscious far, but keep in mind that glazing over even billions of defenseless minds wouldn't be too hard compared to things telepaths do these days and certainly wouldn't be much use in a fight. It would be very unfair for you to assume TK would somehow block telepathy. It just doesn't make sense and hasn't been done to my knowledge. I call burden of proof on you, there. Sersi isn't teleporting away because (aside from not ever really teleporting in combat and Maxima having her own teleportation powers) she's going to have to deal with a direct telepathic assault. As far as comic logic goes, telepathy can only be out-speed by speedsters of the highest order. It's just too fast. Maxima has better speed feats than Sersi anyway.

Maxima, by KMC rules, will engage in telepathy. Sersi had an aneurysm trying to keep down Exodus when she had the drop on him. With perhaps an even greater telepath than Exodus against Sersi, I really don't see her letting down her tp defenses to try some matter manip. That would get her brain crushed.

As far as direct tk goes, Maxima routinely had better feats; although, Sersi certainly had the best high end one. Sersi redirected and expelled a universe destroying blast thing. Problem is that she never did anything remotely resembling that before or after it happened. Maxima was manipulating the tectonic plates of a planet larger than earth (while relatively depowered), blasted Superman down for the count, etc. I'd say Sersi at her absolute opus would win, but Maxima should take a majority in a tk tug of war based on consistency in power levels.



She's telekinetic. Manipulating metal is just her using tk on metal... not an innate attunement to metal alloy or magnetic fields. Her origin specifically stated that she was a scion of Almerac. She's more powerful than Mags by far anyway. He may have more minute control over the EM spectrum, but she definitely packs more punch.

Maxima is stong enough to shift entire continents on earth and move the entire population of her planet in space at the speed of light, while simultaneously providing a breathable atmosphere for them. Yeah, Maxima wins.

Originally posted by Konton
Well, Sersi taking Exodus by suprise and still managing to get overpowered isn't exactly all that impressive. It means she can maybe avoid being overpowered by Maxima for maybe a few seconds lol

i'd say a lot longer than that, but what instances of tp are you using to claim that max is so much above sersi?



i wouldn't say far at all..... her tp has held open dimensional rifts, controlled the minds of several deviants in the old eternals mini as well as the other instances i've referenced. when exodus overcame her dane was trying to talk her in letting him go and physically acting against her. he was going to break free anyway but we saw in their later battle that she went toe-to-toe with him without any problems.



true, but didn't she have a host of others with her and she really didn't do anything at all against him iirc. it wasn't until the warworld link broke that she lobotomized him.



i'd disagree with the first point there, and say while true, tp isn't the way she'd win this fight. i've been saying she's strong enough to not LOSE that way. that's a big difference.



true, but it speaks to the scope and control she has, and again, not sure how many tp's you'd say are capable of such a planet-wide feat, but i'd say VERY few, and those are only the top-most tier.



that's an interesting point. i'd thought i knew of an instance but if i've seen it i don't recall it. but i wonder how max's tp would be effective if she were getting smashed by sersi's tk which would be as fast as the tp max would attack with.



she can and has--she just doesn't much like it. i'd wager she'd like getting mindraped less.



and max may need to deal with being tk choked or simply transmuted into adamantium.



if it comes to quick draw, i don't know that max's tp is faster than sersi transmuting at all. if it is, not by much and i think sersi could fend her off long enough to use tk to disrupt the tp assault then finish her with transmutation.



maybe, but on-panel, what tp feats does max have to match exodus?



not sure about that without some proof.



she seemed to be wielding both tp and tk (or at least shielding against exodus simply overwhemling her with tp) in their avengers battle. i see it going something like that.



perhaps. i would actually give sersi the tk edge like i'd give max the tp edge, but i don't think it would come to either of those.



disagree there. she seems to have some sort of definite affinity for metal for some reason. too many instances where that has been shown specifically. don't understand it myself, but it seems to hold true.



perhaps, but that's for another thread....

my position is pretty simple--in all ways i think they are very close. sersi wins imo because she has the one-shot ko. all she needs is a tiniest opening and max is finished via transmutation. i don't think max has anything that can permanently disable sersi, or keep her from inevitablely getting that small opening.

Has Sersi done anything in the last 5 years?

Brainiac was overextended. And still handled Maxima pretty easily, until the Metal Men and Flash saved her (And arguably distracted him enough for her to overpower him unamped.)

Wasn't that Brainiac a team basher, anyway?

Originally posted by Zack M
Wasn't that Brainiac a team basher, anyway?

That same Brainiac took control of the DNAlien telepath, all the way from Colu. (Although he may have been amped up to the Colun computers)..

His tp feats are a good match for Charles Xavier and Martian Manhunter. Maxima's powerful, but not "that" powerful to win a fair fight, imo.

Sersi.

Originally posted by cdtm
That same Brainiac took control of the DNAlien telepath, all the way from Colu. (Although he may have been amped up to the Colun computers)..

His tp feats are a good match for Charles Xavier and Martian Manhunter. Maxima's powerful, but not "that" powerful to win a fair fight, imo.

I don't see Sersi getting past Maxima's telepathy, tbh.