ALbert Wesker (pre Boroboris) vs. Raiden

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Final Blaxican
Well mateys?

Resident Evil 5 Wesker /w pistol and combat knife vs. Raiden with his sword.

This is Wesker before he transformed himself in the volcano, and MGS4 Raiden.

Who wins?

Wesker: (RE5 spoilers)

vEgDVOpS6zI

eWNM_58Kg_s

Raiden:

R61cCBUWNQM

Csdabest
I might have to say Wesker takes it. He got a crazy boost in his RE5 viewing

Final Blaxican
Yeah,

I added some videos for both as well.

KingD19
Wesker has the teleportation thing going for him, but Raiden can easily dodge and block bullets, and his reaction time, reflexes, and fighting skills dwarf Weskers. It will also take an insane amount of damage to put either one down, but Raiden has the advantage in every area, including strength.

Final Blaxican
That's the thing,

It's not teleportation. That's him just MOVING. i.e., RUNNING.

And there's a third fight that shows how easily he moves faster than bulelts, and also shows him denting steel with his fist while weakened/poisoned.

KingD19
I consider it teleportation because of the stances he's in when he reappears. He moves to the left, and when he reappears, he's still standing straight up, if it was pure speed, he would have reappeared in a pose like snapping straight up, or still bent slightly to the side. Besides, it's kind of hard to move that fast only over a few inches. Plus he leaves that black mist when he moves, most teleportation is followed by a visual or audio effect, and this adds to my belief that it's teleportation.

In a h2h, or melee fight, Raiden is capable of fighting and beating Wesker in my opinion.

And Raiden was strong enough to spin on his back, flinging two geckos around while he did it.

Final Blaxican
Originally posted by KingD19
I consider it teleportation because of the stances he's in when he reappears. He moves to the left, and when he reappears, he's still standing straight up


I"m inclined to believe he's moving normally because of how he stands, which is funny. We contradict each other.


Look at the first video I posted for Wekser, and skip to about :50. Notice that whatever direction he moves in he ends up leaning over in that direction a little bit, like he was running then coming to a sudden stop.

Also, freeze the video at :57 and :59 and you'll see that his body is warped and stretched in the direction he's heading for.

Also notice that even before becoming fully visible when attacking Chris he's already halfway through forming an attack, which means that he started the attack before he appeared, which means that hadn't stopped fully yet. This leads me to believe that he's just moving normally. Also:

Skip to about 1 minute in.

fW2D2efEO3M

That running ability is one of the ones he uses in-game as well.



Perhaps. His speed, despite being > bullets, has never struck me as really super fast. I think Wesker has the speed advantage at least.



I remember that. Pretty awesome.

KingD19
Well you're the 1st person who proved me wrong, thanks, I'm glad someone actually put thought into his abilities besides me. Although the only thing that is against your argument, when he's fighting and doesn't really move around, he just turns around and appears in the same spot, but in a different position.

Wesker has faster movement speed true, but he has never fought against someone with reflexes and fighting abilities like Raiden, I'd like to see how he fares.

And Raiden's pretty fast too, he did slice 3 Gecko's apart in the span of a second, and they were spaced pretty decently apart too.

And yea, it was awesome. It was even more awesome when he had knives stuck in his arms and he used them as weapons. Although it's so hard to pay attention to that battle, since Snake is on the other side.

niduin
ok i havent played re5 yet but plan to, but i have seen what wesker is capable of from vids.

wesker has the speed, raiden has the strength and the h2h skill imo dont have proof for that just my opinion.

this is a tough one wesker is faster but i dont think he is fast enough for raiden not to react to him, but i dont know if raiden would be able to hit him.....man this is a really hard one i dont know. wesker probably takes it just cuz of the speed and regen,

KingD19
Like I said, Wesker has physical speed, like running and what not, but can he dodge Raiden in close quarters? And the H.F. Blade can cut through just about anything, Wesker is no exception since Sheva stabbed him in the elbow.

niduin
the hf blade can only cut thru almost anything because the weilder is super strong, but good thing raiden is super strong

KingD19
It's the wielders strength, mixed with the blades capability of vibrating at extremely high frequencies. If a normal human wielded it, they could probably cut through a few inches of steel with ease, and a foot of it with some effort.

niduin
Originally posted by KingD19
It's the wielders strength, mixed with the blades capability of vibrating at extremely high frequencies. If a normal human wielded it, they could probably cut through a few inches of steel with ease, and a foot of it with some effort. IT DOESNT VIBRATE!!! what it does is send high frequencies of "radio waves" that make the blade super hot basicly microwaving the blade, making it weaken just about everything but a normal human would have a really hard time cutting thru steel with one

niduin
oh and my source is the metal gear database add on that you can download from playstation store, it basicly tells all the little details about everything in the metal gear universe

ThunderGodEneru
Raiden can punch Wesker's head off. erm

KingD19
That can't be true, because Vamp and Raiden's hands would have been burned when they grasped the blade, plus they both should have been burned immensely all the times the blade cut and penetrated their bodies. And this is what I got from the Metal Gear Wiki.

High Frequency Blade

A chokuto in which the blade resonates at ultra-high frequencies increasing its sharpness and cutting power exponentially. The HF Blade was used predominately by the cyborg ninjas, Gray Fox, Olga Gurlukovich and Raiden, but was also employed by Solidus Snake and the Arsenal Tengu. The cyborg ninjas were able to wield the blade with such accuracy and speed that they were able to deflect bullets in any direction they were facing. The one exception to this were shotgun blasts, which were unable to be blocked due to the numerous pellets spread out.

Here's a link. http://metalgear.wikia.com/wiki/H.F._Blade#High_Frequency_Blade

And yeah Eneru, he could do that.

niduin
are you kidding??? didnt you see the blade glowing like an ember durring the fight? and sizzle when raiden impaled himself. and your sourse is fan based mine is official, to bad i cant send you a link since mine is saved on my ps3, if you have one you could download it, its a mgs4 add on. here ill quote exactly what it says

High-frequency Blade
Electric signals in the megahertz to gigahertz frequency range are known as high frequencies. Channeling high frequency energy through a sword raises its temperature, thereby increasing its cutting ability.
Used by Cyborg Ninja in Shadow Moses Incident. The new Cyborg Ninja (Olga Gurlukovich) wielded this weapon during thte Big Shell incident and after Olga was killed, Solid Snake passed the blade onto Raiden, who ultimately used it to defeat Solidus Snake.

and thats from an official mgs add on

KingD19
The one time it sizzled was when Raiden stabbed it through himself and Vamp, I will give you that, and it did glow as if hot. Although in the last fight, he stabbed Vamp and held the sword in for a while, no sizzling or bubbling flesh.

And the blade wasn't glowing until the end of the fight, right before he stabbed himself and Vamp.

Also, if Grey Fox used a HF Blade like you're describing, why did none of his victims, Ocelot included, have burns when they were cut? If the blade was emitting those temperatures, it more melts through anything than cuts it, like a lightsaber, and if it indeed did give off the temperatures you stated it does, Ocelots stump should have been seared closed, as well as the mutilated soldiers in the hallway.

So either the whole H.F. Blade theory is inconsistent with itself, making us both right, or the game developers just said to hell with it and did whatever they wanted.

Darkstorm Zero
Because the blade isn't always active. most of the time its simply a modernised katana.

And lets not forget the electrical stun capability either.

KingD19
I thought that was just on Snake's knife?

Final Blaxican
Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
Raiden can punch Wesker's head off. erm

I honestly don't think he'd be able to unless he put force behind the punch.

Zack Fair
Edit

ThunderGodEneru
Originally posted by Final Blaxican
I honestly don't think he'd be able to unless he put force behind the punch. Right, because most people when they punch do not put force behind it. no expression

niduin
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Because the blade isn't always active. most of the time its simply a modernised katana.

And lets not forget the electrical stun capability either. no your thinking of the stun knife, the hf blade doesnt have stunning abilities

Final Blaxican
Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
Right, because most people when they punch do not put force behind it. no expression

That wasn't my point...

My point is that, there is a balance between speed and force. The stronger a punch is, or the more force behind it, the slower it will be because you have to work your muscles more to throw the punch, usually the difference is only a fraction of a second for normal people. However in this situation Raiden is fighting someone who is not just a bit faster than he is. He is, much, faster than he is.

My point is that if Raiden hopes to tag him with a "punch", he'd have to throw something like a jab, a quick punch, which wouldn't be strong enough to "knock his head off".

Simply put, he doesn't have speed to use a one hit KO punch if he wants to actually hit him.

EDIT-

And it sucks that there's now a thosuand Wesker vs. threads. It makes him irritating because fans are going crazy.

Phanteros
is this fat albert vs raiden?

King-Fingolfin
What?

ThunderGodEneru
Originally posted by Final Blaxican
That wasn't my point...

My point is that, there is a balance between speed and force. The stronger a punch is, or the more force behind it, the slower it will be because you have to work your muscles more to throw the punch, usually the difference is only a fraction of a second for normal people. However in this situation Raiden is fighting someone who is not just a bit faster than he is. He is, much, faster than he is.

My point is that if Raiden hopes to tag him with a "punch", he'd have to throw something like a jab, a quick punch, which wouldn't be strong enough to "knock his head off".

Simply put, he doesn't have speed to use a one hit KO punch if he wants to actually hit him.

EDIT-

And it sucks that there's now a thosuand Wesker vs. threads. It makes him irritating because fans are going crazy. Much faster? Raiden was blocking turret fire that was going 1,200-1,500 meters per second when he was human. That is nearly four times the speed of sound. As a Cyborg he is much faster, able to actually dodge it as well.

Raiden has spun multiple Geckos around with his legs, and while in a crippled state stopped Arsenal Gear, with leverage, sure, but he still stopped it, Arsenal Gear is a mobile fortress, and is thousands of tons.

He ca do it with a jab.

Why is Wesker faster? Because he looks like he is teleporting? Big whoopdy doo.

Final Blaxican
Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
Much faster? Raiden was blocking turret fire that was going 1,200-1,500 meters per second

Prove it's 1500 meters per second, and also show me him doing it so I can see the gun in question myself.




Doubtful.



Show me superior Raiden sped feats then. He doesn't look any faster than, say, Yoda.

ThunderGodEneru
Originally posted by Final Blaxican
Prove it's 1500 meters per second, and also show me him doing it so I can see the gun in question myself.




Doubtful.



Show me superior Raiden sped feats then. He doesn't look any faster than, say, Yoda. 1. http://hypertextbook.com/facts/1999/MariaPereyra.shtml

It was a big gun, mounted on Metal Gear Ray, hence being 1,500 mps, and it is fully automatic.

2. Based on what exactly? He has never been hit by anything that strong.

3. Other than what I just named? So he looks like he can teleport? Big whoop. And notice how he only does it in short bursts.

KingD19
He does does the speed burst/ teleport thing, then run around and do actual acrobatic moves for a bit.

Final Blaxican
Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
1. http://hypertextbook.com/facts/1999/MariaPereyra.shtml

It was a big gun, mounted on Metal Gear Ray, hence being 1,500 mps, and it is fully automatic.

So wait, just to make sure I understand your argument here.

You don't know what type of gun it actually is. You don't know what it's classification is. You don't know what materials it's made of. You don't know what type of bullets it uses. You don't know what the material of the bullets itself is. You don't know what the range of the gun is.

However, because it "looks big", it automatically fits into one of those three highly fallacious fields? Nevermind the fact that it's attached to a fictional weapon in a fictional universe where logic and reality rarely exist?



A flaming pilalr from a collapsing building fell on hi mand Chris and he suffered 3rd degree burns all over his face. They healed in three minutes. He was shot point blank range by a handgun and after being shot he fell a couple hundred feet out of a moving airplane into a volcano. No physical damage on his body what-so-ever. Also note that he was poisoned heavily at the time. Only his shirt was ripped off. He was tackled out of a window by Jill and they fell a few hundred feet over a sheer cliffside and landed in the rock ridden Atlantic ocean below. He was not injured and in fact managed to swim to shore with Jill in his arms. Chris fired an missile round at him and he caught it in midair an inch away from his face. Chris shot it and the round exploded an inch away from his face. No physical damage on his face. He was only stunned.

Has Raiden ever tanked a missile before?



Raiden has never done a single thing more impressive speed wise. So who cares?

And no it's not in short bursts. Come back when you've beaten the actual game, and you'll know better.

ThunderGodEneru
Originally posted by Final Blaxican
So wait, just to make sure I understand your argument here.

You don't know what type of gun it actually is. You don't know what it's classification is. You don't know what materials it's made of. You don't know what type of bullets it uses. You don't know what the material of the bullets itself is. You don't know what the range of the gun is.

However, because it "looks big", it automatically fits into one of those three highly fallacious fields? Nevermind the fact that it's attached to a fictional weapon in a fictional universe where logic and reality rarely exist?



A flaming pilalr from a collapsing building fell on hi mand Chris and he suffered 3rd degree burns all over his face. They healed in three minutes. He was shot point blank range by a handgun and after being shot he fell a couple hundred feet out of a moving airplane into a volcano. No physical damage on his body what-so-ever. Also note that he was poisoned heavily at the time. Only his shirt was ripped off. He was tackled out of a window by Jill and they fell a few hundred feet over a sheer cliffside and landed in the rock ridden Atlantic ocean below. He was not injured and in fact managed to swim to shore with Jill in his arms. Chris fired an missile round at him and he caught it in midair an inch away from his face. Chris shot it and the round exploded an inch away from his face. No physical damage on his face. He was only stunned.

Has Raiden ever tanked a missile before?



Raiden has never done a single thing more impressive speed wise. So who cares?

And no it's not in short bursts. Come back when you've beaten the actual game, and you'll know better. 1. I know that the weapon is a futuristic weapon that has two gatling guns on each wing. And considering the fact that the very thing is made of top line tech along with being heavily armor plated, you think it would have shit guns? And this is human Raiden.

Copout, it would classify as a "big gun," which according to the source I provided, can shoot at about 1,500 mps. Shit, the speed of a typical rifle bullet is 1,000 mps, which is more than three times the speed of sound, the guns Ray was using are logically more advanced and larger guns, and they are automatic, Raiden can block them.

2. And all of that equals him being able to take hits from a guy who while injured, missing one arm, although with a bit of leverage, stopped a giant ship that easily weighs multiples of 1,000 tons? Raiden would physically b!tch Wesker.

His body was not crushed by Arsenal Gear. Wesker is not doing shit to him.

3. Only Wesker's feats cannot be quantified. The calculations for how fast you have to be to disappear from sight have already been done. It is about 200 miles per hour for a human sized object. Wesker's fastest reflex feats were dodging sniper shots I believe, and gatling shots, which though impressive, does not make him faster than Raiden by any long shot.

I did the calculations, wtf it looks like is of no importance at all, how's about you do some of your own?

Superherovandal
Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
1. I know that the weapon is a futuristic weapon that has two gatling guns on each wing. And considering the fact that the very thing is made of top line tech along with being heavily armor plated, you think it would have shit guns? And this is human Raiden.

Copout, it would classify as a "big gun," which according to the source I provided, can shoot at about 1,500 mps. Shit, the speed of a typical rifle bullet is 1,000 mps, which is more than three times the speed of sound, the guns Ray was using are logically more advanced and larger guns, and they are automatic, Raiden can block them.

2. And all of that equals him being able to take hits from a guy who while injured, missing one arm, although with a bit of leverage, stopped a giant ship that easily weighs multiples of 1,000 tons? Raiden would physically b!tch Wesker.

His body was not crushed by Arsenal Gear. Wesker is not doing shit to him.

3. Only Wesker's feats cannot be quantified. The calculations for how fast you have to be to disappear from sight have already been done. It is about 200 miles per hour for a human sized object. Wesker's fastest reflex feats were dodging sniper shots I believe, and gatling shots, which though impressive, does not make him faster than Raiden by any long shot.

I did the calculations, wtf it looks like is of no importance at all, how's about you do some of your own?
Honestly Wesker doesn't seem like he can lose this battle just cause he could probably dodge every one of Raiden's attacks and even if he gets stabbed he can take it. I mean even after he was overinfected by Chris and Sheva he took multiple bullets and was stabbed by Sheva. and Raiden doesn't have the virus to help him. and I'm pretty sure that if Raiden had an RPG explode right next to him he'd be splattered. So yeah I'd say that he's more durable. The only thing that Raiden most certainly has over Wesker is strength but strength doesn't matter when you can't hit your target.

ThunderGodEneru
Originally posted by Superherovandal
Honestly Wesker doesn't seem like he can lose this battle just cause he could probably dodge every one of Raiden's attacks and even if he gets stabbed he can take it. I mean even after he was overinfected by Chris and Sheva he took multiple bullets and was stabbed by Sheva. and Raiden doesn't have the virus to help him. and I'm pretty sure that if Raiden had an RPG explode right next to him he'd be splattered. So yeah I'd say that he's more durable. The only thing that Raiden most certainly has over Wesker is strength but strength doesn't matter when you can't hit your target. Only Raiden is faster than Wesker.

And took the weight of Arsenal Gear on him.

He is far more durable to blunt force.

niduin
yeah an rpg wouldnt take him out, for one thing it wouldnt hit him, and his exosceletin is awesome

Genesis
Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
Raiden can punch Wesker's head off. erm

How so? A bullet does zero damage to Wesker's face. A steel pipe bends over his forearm. Suddenly, the magic punch will do the trick? Really?

I think Wesker and his ridiculously high speed movement will do the trick.

Genesis
Originally posted by Genesis
How so? A bullet does zero damage to Wesker's face. A steel pipe bends over his forearm. Suddenly, the magic punch will do the trick? Really?

I think Wesker and his ridiculously high speed movement will do the trick.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
Only Raiden is faster than Wesker.

If you can show me an example of Raiden moving so fast, that he can transfix his visual matter into invisibility, I'll concur.

Review the second video Blax posts in the initial post of this thread. He is STANDING STILL while shooting and he is able to instantly relocate without extensive movement. He is arguably teleporting.

ScreamPaste
Raiden is alot stronger than any bullet, Genesis.

Furthermore, if Raiden's cyborg ninja self is anything like Fox, who dodged mountained machine gun fire of around 1500 m/s, I might add, I doubt Wesker can keep up.

Genesis
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Raiden is alot stronger than any bullet, Genesis.

Wesker has endured more than just bullets, steel pipes and knifes. He has also endured the strength of a Tyrant. They can tear through steel without effort.

Wesker moves far too quickly. I don't believe Raiden can pull it off.

niduin
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Raiden is alot stronger than any bullet, Genesis.

Furthermore, if Raiden's cyborg ninja self is anything like Fox, who dodged mountained machine gun fire of around 1500 m/s, I might add, I doubt Wesker can keep up. actually fox was dodging/deflecting bullets coming at him from 2 guns that shoot 6000 bullets a minute and 3500 feet per second each. however there is no evidence that raiden is anywhere near that fast however he has definately shown to be stronger than fox arsanel gear is WAY heavyer than metal gear rex, so if he was to land a punch it would do some seriouse damage

Final Blaxican
Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
1. I know that the weapon is a futuristic weapon that has two gatling guns on each wing.





I never said it has "shit guns". Still doesn't change the fact that you're employing gross speculation into your argument, ignoring all the variables in the process. This isn't a habit you've always had. Don't let the debating tactics of certain people rub off on you.




And your source is over a decade old and is fallacious in itself. It was written by students for gods sake. Hardly matters though. Your entire point is contradicted by your own weak decade old source.

"With modern propulsion techniques, the projectile's initial velocity may be as high as 4000 feet (1200 meters) per second for some rifles and 5000 feet (1500 meters) per second for some large guns."

Your own source states that this isn't an absolute. The size of a weapon doesn't determine it's speed. It's the materials and the classification that does. And no. "Gatling gun" is not a classification, it's just a type of machine gun clip.

So, prove up. You have a lot of variables to cover here. Get to quantifying.



Yeah, it does, considering for all we know Raiden could have been using all the strength he possibly had to keep that thing in the air, including all the strength in his arms and his legs and his torso, which is something that you don't have the luxury of having when attacking with just your hands, first off. Second off, as noted already Wesker will be literally running in circles around him, meaning that if Raiden wants to tag him at all he needs to do quick calculated light strikes like jabs, not massive haymakers. He doesn't move fast enough to do a one-hit punch, which would involve throwing his entire body into the punch, and if he were to miss he'd be completely and utterly exposed and overextended.



There's a difference between using every muscle in your body to keep something from falling on you, and taking a concentrated blow to only one part of your body, rendering all the resistance in every other part of your body useless. When you're lifting something heavy over your head the weight is distributed evenly throughout your body, from your two hands to your shoulders all the way down to your calves. It's completely different from a concentrated impact.

Now, if Raiden had been laying down on his back and all of the weight from the Gear was put on only his stomach, and he was fine, then you'd have a point.



No they haven't, because you did them wrong.



You forgot something.



This doesn't really make any sense. You're saying that Wesker dodging a Gatling gun is a lesser feat than Raiden dodging a Gatling gun?

Or are you going to bring out the "But MG's Gatling looks bigger so it shoots faster" argument again?



Your calculations are just as wrong as EA's were. Because you're not taking everything into account. I can tell you what they are, ebcause I'm pretty sure you haven't noticed them because yu're not mentally retarded like me and you don't obscess over certain small details like I do.




Why?

It's common knowledge that in a debate you don't bring real world physics like numbers into a debate about fictional characters. It's doomed to fail and it makes your entire argument look silly, not good. I don't feel the need to attempt to make myself look smart by posting big numbers written in scientific ntoation. I'm not saying thats your intent, and I'm sorry if I sound like a dick, but, I'm just saying. It's pointless.

niduin
Originally posted by Final Blaxican
Yeah, it does, considering for all we know Raiden could have been using all the strength he possibly had to keep that thing in the air, including all the strength in his arms and his legs and his torso, which is something that you don't have the luxury of having when attacking with just your hands, first off. Second off, as noted already Wesker will be literally running in circles around him, meaning that if Raiden wants to tag him at all he needs to do quick calculated light strikes like jabs, not massive haymakers. He doesn't move fast enough to do a one-hit punch, which would involve throwing his entire body into the punch, and if he were to miss he'd be completely and utterly exposed and overextended.

There's a difference between using every muscle in your body to keep something from falling on you, and taking a concentrated blow to only one part of your body, rendering all the resistance in every other part of your body useless. When you're lifting something heavy over your head the weight is distributed evenly throughout your body, from your two hands to your shoulders all the way down to your calves. It's completely different from a concentrated impact
i dont think you know what we are talking about when we say arsanal gear, first off its a HUGE submarine (probably a litle bigger than an aircraft carier) that holds dozzens of metal gear rex's to protect it, and a huge "arsenal" of nukes with a weight of thousands and thousands of tons, so even if he died holding it back that is still more than enough strength to do a hell of a lot of damage to anyone.

and also he didnt lift it above himself (i think you are thinking of gray fox stoping metal gear rex) it was moving to crush snake and he came up and stoped it from moving

Originally posted by Final Blaxican

Now, if Raiden had been laying down on his back and all of the weight from the Gear was put on only his stomach, and he was fine, then you'd have a point.
thats pretty much what happend, he was stopping it and basicly passed out and fell inbetween it and the concrete and survived

Final Blaxican
I did some comparisons to our own world out of boredom, and, lookee what I've found.

The M-61 Vulcan Gatling gun is the most advanced Gatling gun we have in existence so far.

This is our "big gun", we attach it to all of our, ya know, big stuff.

The M61 Vulcan, our most advanced and powerful Gatling Gun, has a bullet speed of only 1,050 m/s, which is slower than some rifles.

So, yeah. You want to use real world logic and facts? Proof that how big a gun is doesn't influence how fast the bullets are. Your source is incorrect.

Final Blaxican
And out of curiosity, and this aimed at both of you, where was all this amazing punching power when:

He was stuck in a crucifix position tied up by mere ropes that were cut by an assault rifle bullet, meaning their tinsel strength wasn't all that strong, even if they were made of steel.

and

Raiden punches Vamp in the face. Vamp only weighs about 200 pounds max. If Raiden punched with hundreds of tons of force, it would have sent a 200 pound man FLYING. Even if Vamp hadn't been hurt he would have been sent flying, also regardless of his physical strength he would have been sent flying.

It didn't.

Raiden jumps on top of him and starts stomping on him. If he was doing so with multi-ton strength it should have created at least a small crater when the kinetic energy displaced by such a powerful attack reached the ground.

And in addition, when his sword hits the ground it leaves a small stab hole where the sword digs into the ground. Despite the fact that it's sharp as hell, any object slammed into the ground with tons upon tons upon tons of force like that would have a much bigger effect on mere old weathered asphalt.

Raiden was obviously fighting to kill throughout that fight. So you better have a damn good reason for why he'd be pulling his punches until they were a fraction of the strength you think he has in one punch, and not even a regular full on punch but a quick jab.

niduin
Originally posted by Final Blaxican
I did some comparisons to our own world out of boredom, and, lookee what I've found.

The M-61 Vulcan Gatling gun is the most advanced Gatling gun we have in existence so far.

This is our "big gun", we attach it to all of our, ya know, big stuff.

The M61 Vulcan, our most advanced and powerful Gatling Gun, has a bullet speed of only 1,050 m/s, which is slower than some rifles.

So, yeah. You want to use real world logic and facts? Proof that how big a gun is doesn't influence how fast the bullets are. Your source incorrect. ok for tha particulare gun its not "advanced" because of the speed of one bullet, its because of the rate at which the bullets come out, altho these bullets from the gheko are gatlin guns, i think they are .50 cal machine guns, which have probably the fastest speed per bullet. but the firing rate is kind of slow.

anyway here is a vid of where raiden stopped arsanal gear and then got crushed by it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgRvKJeBbRk

niduin
Originally posted by Final Blaxican
And out of curiosity, and this aimed at both of you, where was all this amazing punching power when:

He was stuck in a crucifix position tied up by mere ropes that were cut by an assault rifle bullet, meaning their tinsel strength wasn't all that strong, even if they were made of steel. so again think about what you say before you say them

and

Raiden punches Vamp in the face. Vamp only weighs about 200 pounds max. If Raiden punched with hundreds of tons of force, it would have sent a 200 pound man FLYING. Even if Vamp hadn't been hurt he would have been sent flying, also regardless of his physical strength he would have been sent flying.

It didn't.
the cables are just PIS, and i cant think of one time where raiden ever succesfuly punched vamp in the face, i will look tho

Originally posted by Final Blaxican
Raiden jumps on top of him and starts stomping on him. If he was doing so with multi-ton strength it should have created at least a small crater when the kinetic energy displaced by such a powerful attack reached the ground.

And in addition, when his sword hits the ground it leaves a small stab hole where the sword digs into the ground. Despite the fact that it's sharp as hell, any object slammed into the ground with tons upon tons upon tons of force like that would have a much bigger effect on mere old weathered asphalt.
ok once again you need to think about what you are saying before you say it, if you are standing and you weigh oh 260 lbs (with the suit) and you hit the ground with you foot with tons of force you are going to jump really high, same with the sword thing

Final Blaxican
Originally posted by niduin
ok for tha particulare gun its not "advanced" because of the speed of one bullet, its because of the rate at which the bullets come out,


Rate of fire only talks about how many bullets are launched, not how fast they move. Thus, dodging a gun that has a high RoF doesn't mean much, relatively speaking.




The larger the mass of a bullet the slower it will go due to wind resistance. Being bigger actually makes you slower. A missile moves slower than a bullet because the amount of torque required to move a ten foot object through air is much greater than the torque required to move a half inch object through air. Also, there is less air in front of the bullet creating friction and stopping it, and there's less gravity on the smaller object forcing it into the ground.



Impressive. Never said the guy wasn't strong, just that there's a difference. Notice that he's using every muscle in his body, including the leverage from the unbreakable sword and the friction of the ground, and again it took literally all of his strength to do so, beyond what his body could take as it killed him. It's not strength that he readily has access to at any time, and it's not strength that he can wind up into one punch.

Final Blaxican
Originally posted by niduin
the cables are just PIS, and i cant think of one time where raiden ever succesfuly punched vamp in the face, i will look tho

Yeah, go look at the video.




... what?

No. That's not what would happen at all. You don't "bounce" from hitting something unless it's substantially more durable than you are.

But, wait. He didn't bounce either. Are you saying that Raiden wasn't striking with tons of force?

hm...

niduin
blax are intentionally dence? if you hit your foot on the ground with more force than you weigh it will make you go up, im sorry i can not argue with you anymore, i mean if you cant understand that, i have more to say about what you said but you just wont understand it, man it is so frustrating

KingD19
Raiden didn't die, just so you know.

niduin
Originally posted by Final Blaxican
Yeah, go look at the video.
i cant beleive i am doing this. but i did watch both the videos where raiden fought vamp and he never hit him in the face. also even if he did it wouldnt necesaraly make him go flying, that all depends on the speed at which he hits him with, i mean you can get hit by a car going 1/2 mph thats still lots of presure but its going really slow and you wont go flying back. but if its going 60 you would flip like a ragdoll

niduin
Originally posted by Final Blaxican
Rate of fire only talks about how many bullets are launched, not how fast they move. Thus, dodging a gun that has a high RoF doesn't mean much, relatively speaking. ok so your saying that catching a ball that is thrown at 30 mph is more impresive than catching 30 balls moving at 15 mph in 2 seconds? cuz that vulcan cannon you were talking about, it shoots 6000 rounds per minut, thats 100 a second, so yeah i think its a little harder to deflect all those than...well anything else
Originally posted by Final Blaxican

The larger the mass of a bullet the slower it will go due to wind resistance. Being bigger actually makes you slower. A missile moves slower than a bullet because the amount of torque required to move a ten foot object through air is much greater than the torque required to move a half inch object through air. Also, there is less air in front of the bullet creating friction and stopping it, and there's less gravity on the smaller object forcing it into the ground. yeah thats true, however thats not the reason that the .50 cal is fast, its just because it has lots of gunpowder behind it

Originally posted by Final Blaxican

Impressive. Never said the guy wasn't strong, just that there's a difference. Notice that he's using every muscle in his body, including the leverage from the unbreakable sword and the friction of the ground, and again it took literally all of his strength to do so, beyond what his body could take as it killed him. It's not strength that he readily has access to at any time, and it's not strength that he can wind up into one punch. oh yeah your right using every mustle in your body to hold up thousands upon thousands of TONS yeah because he used his entire body to do something like that means that he cant be strong enough to do lots of tamage with a punch i mean thats only a portion of the strength used to stop more weight than i can even fathom. who cares if he "had leverage" or "used his whole body" the fact is that with that kind of strength he could throw tanks like they were pingpongs.

niduin
so i looked up the weight of a aircraft carior, and letst assume that arsanal gear is near this weight. 97,000 tons

KingD19
And let's not forget Raiden was severley weakened when he was stopping Arsenal Gear, because his fights with Vamp left him wounder as always, plus he only had one arm.

ThunderGodEneru
Originally posted by Final Blaxican
And out of curiosity, and this aimed at both of you, where was all this amazing punching power when:

He was stuck in a crucifix position tied up by mere ropes that were cut by an assault rifle bullet, meaning their tinsel strength wasn't all that strong, even if they were made of steel.

and

Raiden punches Vamp in the face. Vamp only weighs about 200 pounds max. If Raiden punched with hundreds of tons of force, it would have sent a 200 pound man FLYING. Even if Vamp hadn't been hurt he would have been sent flying, also regardless of his physical strength he would have been sent flying.

It didn't.

Raiden jumps on top of him and starts stomping on him. If he was doing so with multi-ton strength it should have created at least a small crater when the kinetic energy displaced by such a powerful attack reached the ground.

And in addition, when his sword hits the ground it leaves a small stab hole where the sword digs into the ground. Despite the fact that it's sharp as hell, any object slammed into the ground with tons upon tons upon tons of force like that would have a much bigger effect on mere old weathered asphalt.

Raiden was obviously fighting to kill throughout that fight. So you better have a damn good reason for why he'd be pulling his punches until they were a fraction of the strength you think he has in one punch, and not even a regular full on punch but a quick jab. I'm doing research for my other post, so I'll answer this one in the mean-time.

The first was blatant PIS.

The second is the same reason why cities and countries do not get destroyed when Superman Prime fights, it is an inconstistency. I could moan and b!tch to you that Wesker could not even kill a normal human like Chris Redfield in a punch despite his steel punching feats, yet I do not.

So going by the bullshit logic I cannot believe you used in this post, Wesker cannot physically kill a human.

King-Fingolfin
Except Wesker killed Spencer by jamming his fist through him

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg165/EvilAngelLarxene/FriesFail.jpg

ThunderGodEneru
Spencer was a decrepit old man in a wheelchair. no expression

King-Fingolfin
K

He physically can punch a Majini's head off.

ThunderGodEneru
Exactly my point idiot, we can all bring up low showings or inconsistencies, doesn't stop the fact that Wesker punches through steel and Raiden stopped a multi-thousand ton fortress.

Final Blaxican
Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
I'm doing research for my other post, so I'll answer this one in the mean-time.

The first was blatant PIS.

I'm willing to believe that.



An inconsistency that is consistant?



And that's because unlike you I can prove why not.

He can kill Chris in one hit, and he tries to do so later, however every time he gets ready for the killing blow he is distracted or stopped somehow. Otherwise he spends most of his time, according to him himself "wasting time", with his opponents. He suffers from egotistical bad guy syndrome.



Immtiation is such flattery.

Final Blaxican
Originally posted by niduin
i cant beleive i am doing this. but i did watch both the videos where raiden fought vamp and he never hit him in the face. also even if he did it wouldnt necesaraly make him go flying, that all depends on the speed at which he hits him with, i mean you can get hit by a car going 1/2 mph thats still lots of presure but its going really slow and you wont go flying back. but if its going 60 you would flip like a ragdoll

No.



I would say that deflecting five of those 15 balls and then stepping to the side to avoid the reaming 13 is less impressive than catching two 30 MPH balls.



Except Raiden never deflects "all those". He deflects the five or six that manage to come close to hitting him and dodges the rest.



Which is off-set by the fact that they're huge, so having lots of gunpowder doesn't matter. There are smaller bullets that move faster.

Doesn't matter. Prove they were 50. caliber bullets?



He wasn't holding it up. He was holding back the momentum. Don't get it twisted. There's a big difference between keeping a person from moving forward and lifting them up.



You're ignoring variables. Like water. Tugboats that use the same sized engines you find in trucks pull Carrier ships across water. The water alone supports about 75% of the weight of a carrier. So if it's really 90+ tons then in reality only about 20-30 tons of it made a difference.



And this is why you don't have an argument.

ThunderGodEneru
I concede the debate because I researched for an hour and could not find out how fast a 12.7 millimeter bullet from an automatic weapon flies.

Final Blaxican
It was inevitable, sir.

If it makes you feel better. You still provide the best head around.

ThunderGodEneru
Originally posted by Final Blaxican
It was inevitable, sir.

If it makes you feel better. You still provide the best head around. It was not, that was the only flaw in my argument, but I could find NOTHING. ****ing Google.

Sir, I think we both know you are the sheep in the relationship.

ScreamPaste

ThunderGodEneru
Heh......

You're a dick for finding that so easily.

But now I can make my reply, shall do it later. Don't much feel like it now.

Final Blaxican
Wkipedia? lol.

ScreamPaste
..Does anyone here have any reason to vandalise a page about a specific bullet to such an extent that it matches the speeds listed for every gun that uses that bullet on all of wikipedia?

o_O I understand it's not the best source evar(tm) but we're debating VG versus, wiki is good enough, imo.

Final Blaxican
I don't actually have a problem with it, I'm just dissing you because you're black.

ScreamPaste
Playin' the race card, eh? I see how it is.. Q-Q

niduin
Originally posted by Final Blaxican
No.
no? no what, thats how it works, force is speed times velocety
Originally posted by Final Blaxican

Except Raiden never deflects "all those". He deflects the five or six that manage to come close to hitting him and dodges the rest.
yeah cuz dodging isnt impresive or anything

Originally posted by Final Blaxican

Which is off-set by the fact that they're huge, so having lots of gunpowder doesn't matter. There are smaller bullets that move faster.

you realize that they are only long not FAT right they are extremely arrow dinamic so that is a huge fail of an argument, a bullet with lots of power behind it will go a lot faster than a bullet with little power behind it, you really need to pay attention in science or something
Originally posted by Final Blaxican

He wasn't holding it up. He was holding back the momentum. Don't get it twisted. There's a big difference between keeping a person from moving forward and lifting them up.
im sorry for my bad choice of words, but its still an increadible feat i mean its at least 60 THOUSAND tons that he held back show me one thing that even comes to 1% of that that wesker has done

Originally posted by Final Blaxican

You're ignoring variables. Like water. Tugboats that use the same sized engines you find in trucks pull Carrier ships across water. The water alone supports about 75% of the weight of a carrier. So if it's really 90+ tons then in reality only about 20-30 tons of it made a difference.
yeah they pull them going extremely slow, they wouldnt be able to controll it going verry fast and there is no way they could stop it once it gets momentum, and as for the water supporting 75% of the weight well if it was only supporting 75% of the weight it would sink it is supporting 100% of the weight raiden wasnt supporting any of it he wasnt under it, he stopped it from moving with lots of momentum so when raiden first stoped it it was probably even more weight he had to stop than the actual weight of the ship

who said it was 90+ tons, we are talking 50-90 thousand tons, stop making stuff up

niduin
Originally posted by Final Blaxican
It was inevitable, sir.

If it makes you feel better. You still provide the best head around. this coming from the guy who thought that 600 miles per hour is 10 miles a second

Final Blaxican
You don't make any sense.

niduin
what isnt make any sence and ill explain it to you. my last post i was extremely tired and i dont know what i was trying to prove, but the one before that i think i was prety clear

niduin
i still dont get what doesnt make sence, i wish you would tell me so i could explain

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