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So Darkseid finally gives a crap that Ares took away from him the pleasure of killing highfather. Darkseid's pissed and wants to make Ares pay. The battle is in the marvel version of Hell.

DS

Ares, easily.

Darkseid.

Ares.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Based on?

His track record against Ares' entire pantheon.

Originally posted by Allankles
His track record against Ares' entire pantheon.

Right. But DS couldn't do jack to him during Genesis. And Ares still has the Godwave, so...

Originally posted by Enyalus
Right. But DS couldn't do jack to him during Genesis. And Ares still has the Godwave, so...

I don't see the godwave being a factor unless you have any evidence of what it would do for Ares after he was trapped in the source wall?

Not to mention the other Olympians can manipulate the godwave, doesn't seem to affect DS overthrowing them.

i'm really not sure who would win. I really didn't think much of Ares (because of mythology) but then i seen the ares respect thread and the dc Ares is a beast. I can't believe he killed high father and hades. To my knowledge ds doesn't have that high of a resume'. but still i lean towards ds

Originally posted by Allankles
His track record against Ares' entire pantheon. When has he defeated Ares before?

Originally posted by quanchi112
When has he defeated Ares before?

He wasn't talking about defeating Ares, but how DS (and his forces) beat Hermes, as well as captured the entire patheon sans Ares (I believe) in Amazon Attacks.

With tech Darkseid imprisoned Ares when he had the godwave, but they have never actually fought

Originally posted by -K-M-
He wasn't talking about defeating Ares, but how DS (and his forces) beat Hermes, as well as captured the entire patheon sans Ares (I believe) in Amazon Attacks.

With tech Darkseid imprisoned Ares when he had the godwave, but they have never actually fought I know. My point is that Darkseid has never bested Ares. With prep and what not they beat his entire pantheon which is another story altogether.


Ares easily bested Izaya who is on Ds's level and imo Ares takes this home.

He killed Izaya INSIDE THE SOURCE. Where they were both depowered and Izaya was blindsided. And yet DS still managed to stop him with his backup plan.

You understand the story behind Ares getting the better of Izaya right?? killing him from behind?? Comeon now Quan this isn't that hard... Darkseid

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
He killed Izaya INSIDE THE SOURCE. Where they were both depowered and Izaya was blindsided. And yet DS still managed to stop him with his backup plan. Ds stopped him because of the timing involved. He didn't physically stop Ares on his own and he also had aid against Ares the real threat in genesis.



Ds has never beaten Izaya as easily as Ares did in genesis. Ares outmaneuvered Ds and Izaya in one fell swoop.

Originally posted by kevdude
You understand the story behind Ares getting the better of Izaya right?? killing him from behind?? Comeon now Quan this isn't that hard... Darkseid He didn't kill him from behind. Did you read the issue in question?

DS

Originally posted by quanchi112
He didn't kill him from behind. Did you read the issue in question?

I've seen scans and know he was blindsided like Trick said, why I said from behind... That is a very good showing for Ares neverless

Originally posted by kevdude
I've seen scans and know he was blindsided like Trick said, why I said from behind... That is a very good showing for Ares neverless He wasn't blindsided. He announces he will will defend himself and stand in Ares' way and Ares' kills him in no time.

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/jkfw-08-15-3.jpg

Kevdude please do your homework its easy to tell when someone hasn't read the actual fight.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He wasn't blindsided. He announces he will will defend himself and stand in Ares' way and Ares' kills him in no time.

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/jkfw-08-15-3.jpg

Kevdude please do your homework its easy to tell when someone hasn't read the actual fight.

Nice work Quan, like I said I haven't seen the scans in a long while but knew it was through prep and trickery.

Originally posted by kevdude
Nice work Quan, like I said I haven't seen the scans in a long while but knew it was through prep and trickery. He didn't cheapshot him is the point. What he accomplished he did through prep, but defeating Izaya has nothing to do with that.

He shows off that his prep skills not only beat Ds, but they also totally shocked Izaya.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Ds has never beaten Izaya as easily as Ares did in genesis.

Gotta disgaree with that one

1. http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/Adventure460_28.jpg
2. http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/Adventure460_29.jpg
3. http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/Adventure460_30.jpg
----
With Dessad's glove

1. http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/New_Gods_4_005.jpg
2. http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/New_Gods_4_006.jpg

Retelling of the same battle

1. http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/jkfw-01-09.jpg
2. http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/jkfw-01-10.jpg
3. http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/jkfw-01-11.jpg

So I wouldn't say Darkseid NEVER beaten Izaya as easily as Ares did in genesis

Originally posted by -K-M-
Gotta disgaree with that one

1. http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/Adventure460_28.jpg
2. http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/Adventure460_29.jpg
3. http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/Adventure460_30.jpg
----
With Dessad's glove

1. http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/New_Gods_4_005.jpg
2. http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/New_Gods_4_006.jpg

Retelling of the same battle

1. http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/jkfw-01-09.jpg
2. http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/jkfw-01-10.jpg
3. http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/jkfw-01-11.jpg

So I wouldn't say Darkseid NEVER beaten Izaya as easily as Ares did in genesis

Originally posted by -K-M-
Gotta disgaree with that one

1. http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/Adventure460_28.jpg
2. http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/Adventure460_29.jpg
3. http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/Adventure460_30.jpg
----
With Dessad's glove

1. http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/New_Gods_4_005.jpg
2. http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/New_Gods_4_006.jpg

Retelling of the same battle

1. http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/jkfw-01-09.jpg
2. http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/jkfw-01-10.jpg
3. http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/jkfw-01-11.jpg

So I wouldn't say Darkseid NEVER beaten Izaya as easily as Ares did in genesis Ds beat him, but Ares killed him in one strike. Killing him with one successful sword strke is much more impressive than knocking him senseless in a few blows.


Desaad's glove was a cheapshot with his back turned. If you really want to talk about cheashots that is the very definition.

Again, Ares had two strikes and the first one he landed killed him.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Ds beat him, but Ares killed him in one strike. Killing him with one successful sword strke is much more impressive than knocking him senseless in a few blows.

Desaad's glove was a cheapshot with his back turned. If you really want to talk about cheashots that is the very definition.

Again, Ares had two strikes and the first one he landed killed him.

Because he was in a place that could kill him and did DS have a weapon then? No.

You mean how Ares got Highfather off-guard and used prep to take Highfather out? Funny you accept one tactic but dismiss another.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Ds beat him, but Ares killed him in one strike. Killing him with one successful sword strke is much more impressive than knocking him senseless in a few blows.


Desaad's glove was a cheapshot with his back turned. If you really want to talk about cheashots that is the very definition.

Again, Ares had two strikes and the first one he landed killed him.

Izaya was killable within the Source. Also, as KM and others have mentioned Ares had harnessed his power for millenia just so that he could succeed in that moment. Basically he'd prepped for the situation whereas Izaya hadn't.

Not to mention, he used Highfather's power to get to that position in the first place.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Because he was in a place that could kill him and did DS have a weapon then? No.

You mean how Ares got Highfather off-guard and used prep to take Highfather out? Funny you accept one tactic but dismiss another. Ds was killed on earth. Are you saying that ne wgods can't be killed in certain places.


High Father was ready for him and he wasn't up to the task. Ares used prep to get him alone an din that situation, but his skill won him the fight.


Ds attacked Iazay from beyond when grief overtook and its hilarious that you would even put that up singing his praises.

Originally posted by Allankles
Izaya was killable within the Source. Also, as KM and others have mentioned Ares had harnessed his power for millenia just so that he could succeed in that moment. Basically he'd prepped for the situation whereas Izaya hadn't.

Not to mention, he used Highfather's power to get to that position in the first place. He prepped to get himself in that particular situation and channeled his own energies for this moment. He wasn't amped or anything. One strike is all he needed.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Ds was killed on earth. Are you saying that ne wgods can't be killed in certain places.

High Father was ready for him and he wasn't up to the task. Ares used prep to get him alone an din that situation, but his skill won him the fight.

Ds attacked Iazay from beyond when grief overtook and its hilarious that you would even put that up singing his praises.

If your talking about FC there were MANY factors outside of just being on Earth that killed DS and it took extensive amount of prep from all others to do it. New Gods can be killed, but as shown in FC you need quite abit of plot devices to do it.

Because he was infact basically depowered

I was singing his praises? funny all I did was correct your inaccurate statement about how DS has never beaten Highfather as easily as Ares did as shown. Was what DS did a cheap shot? Of course, it's the exact same situation Ares did.

Originally posted by -K-M-
If your talking about FC there were MANY factors outside of just being on Earth that killed DS and it took extensive amount of prep from all others to do it. New Gods can be killed, but as shown in FC you need quite abit of plot devices to do it.

Because he was infact basically depowered

I was singing his praises? funny all I did was correct your inaccurate statement about how DS has never beaten Highfather as easily as Ares did as shown. Was what DS did a cheap shot? Of course, it's the exact same situation Ares did. I am talking about countdown. Fc I am sure will be ignored in the future.

He wasn't depowered. He also had the chance to defend himself and he did a piss poor job of it.

Ds took him out with a cheapshot with his back turned. Ds showed he will take out an opponent with his back turned. No honor in that.


Ares announced his intentions and they had it out. He didn't wait till Izaya turned his back to attack. Completely different.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He prepped to get himself in that particular situation and channeled his own energies for this moment. He wasn't amped or anything. One strike is all he needed.

He prepped for Highfather to send him into the source? That part was entirely upto Highfather's consent.

And yes, harnessing your powers for millenia qualifies as one-sided prep.

Originally posted by Allankles
He prepped for Highfather to send him into the source? That part was entirely upto Highfather's consent.

And yes, harnessing your powers for millenia qualifies as one-sided prep. He channeled his own energies for this which was still down under his own abilities. He duped Izaya into going along with him. He also duped Darkseid at the same time into thinking that Ds would actually merge himself with the godwave. Defeating Izaya had to do with actual combat. His prep got him in the situation he needed to pull this off.

It was already said DS didn't die in Countdown, Orion merely gravely hurt him. Did you actually say Countdown would have more staying power then Final Crisis? which has already begun to be retconned.

*sigh* The rest of your post is pretty hypocritical

Originally posted by quanchi112
He channeled his own energies for this which was still down under his own abilities. He duped Izaya into going along with him. He also duped Darkseid at the same time into thinking that Ds would actually merge himself with the godwave. Defeating Izaya had to do with actual combat. His prep got him in the situation he needed to pull this off.

It is Izaya's exotic abilities that allowed him to get to the Source, so mentioning that he used Izaya's power to get there is not inaccurate.

He mentions the power he harnessed for millenia in the battle. Whereas Izaya spent his time and energy scheming and plotting against DS, Ares was scheming for the godwave's final contraction.

The battle was inevitable to Ares, and he prepped to battle Highfather.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I am talking about countdown. Fc I am sure will be ignored in the future.

He wasn't depowered. He also had the chance to defend himself and he did a piss poor job of it.

Ds took him out with a cheapshot with his back turned. Ds showed he will take out an opponent with his back turned. No honor in that.


Ares announced his intentions and they had it out. He didn't wait till Izaya turned his back to attack. Completely different.

He never wanted Steppenwolf to die as thats the reason why Darkseid stopped Izaya, they was both are part of his plan. Who are you talking about wasn't depowered??

Originally posted by -K-M-
It was already said DS didn't die in Countdown, Orion merely gravely hurt him. Did you actually say Countdown would have more staying power then Final Crisis? which has already begun to be retconned.

*sigh* The rest of your post is pretty hypocritical Both will probably be ignored, but my point is Ds will return to his classic power levels that were portrayed in countdown as opposed to the colossal failure known as the final crisis.


It was entirely accurate.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Both will probably be ignored, but my point is Ds will return to his classic power levels that were portrayed in countdown as opposed to the colossal failure known as the final crisis.


It was entirely accurate.

At classic levels he's depowering skyfathers and taking over pantheons.

Originally posted by Allankles
It is Izaya's exotic abilities that allowed him to get to the Source, so mentioning that he used Izaya's power to get there is not inaccurate.

He mentions the power he harnessed for millenia in the battle. Whereas Izaya spent his time and energy scheming and plotting against DS, Ares was scheming for the godwave's final contraction.

The battle was inevitable to Ares, and he prepped to battle Highfather. Yes, he used Izaya's unique connection with the Spurce to get to where he needed to go.

When does he say a millenia? Where in that scan?

Ares was prepared for this battle while Izaya was not. It cost him his life. Ares used his own power to kill him. Izaya could have at least made it interesting, but he went out quickly and without much effort on Ares' part.

Originally posted by Allankles
At classic levels he's depowering skyfathers and taking over pantheons. Off- panel. At classic levels he can't even counter DD. He submitted to Superman which was a humiliating defeat even Ds admitted as much, he got his heart ripped out by Orion, he was easily shown up by Raker, etc.

Originally posted by kevdude
He never wanted Steppenwolf to die as thats the reason why Darkseid stopped Izaya, they was both are part of his plan. Who are you talking about wasn't depowered?? The point is Ds defeated Izaya easily with those gloves due to Desaad' inegnius and because his back was turned.


Izaya.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Off- panel. At classic levels he can't even counter DD. He submitted to Superman which was a humiliating defeat even Ds admitted as much, he got his heart ripped out by Orion, he was easily shown up by Raker, etc.

Haven't changed your tune I see. DS schooled Raker, if I remember he took his ring and Raker ended up working for him on Apokolips, after he sent the Guardians packing in that disastrous war for the GLC.

An amped Orion wounded him, big deal.

The rest; I don't want to bother.

EDIT: Point is at classic levels he was depowering skyfathers, accumulating power by taking over pantheons, and threatening to retcon the multiverse.

Originally posted by Allankles
Haven't changed your tune I see. DS schooled Raker, if I remember he took his ring and Raker ended up working for him on Apokolips, after he sent the Guardians packing in that disastrous war for the GLC.

An amped Orion wounded him, big deal.

The rest; I don't want to bother.

EDIT: Point is at classic levels he was depowering skyfathers, accumulating power by taking over pantheons, and threatening to retcon the multiverse. Ds schooled Raker earlier in the story. At the end of the story Raker embarrassed him.

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/GreenLanternv380-PageGiant3pg56-1.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/GreenLanternv380-PageGiant3pg57-1.jpg

How was Orion amped when he tapped into Ds's amp? Ds had no amp at the time so neither did Orion.

No, he wasn't. When did he ever depower a skyfather on panel?

You exaggerate him like always and try to misconstrue events.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Ds schooled Raker earlier in the story. At the end of the story Raker embarrassed him.

You don't seem to know what I'm talking about. Raker ended up working on Apokolips for DS. That was the end of his story.

And Raker tackled him and then raised a weapon to his face. We've already had this discussion with you. How does getting tackled and having a weapon raised to your face qualify as embarrassing?

Originally posted by quanchi112
How was Orion amped when he tapped into Ds's amp? Ds had no amp at the time so neither did Orion.

Orion was the agent of the Source, his amp allowed him to be on DS level i.e. they were evenly matched.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, he wasn't. When did he ever depower a skyfather on panel?

Time Trapper, Mordu - classic DS.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You exaggerate him like always and try to misconstrue events.

Nope.

Originally posted by quanchi112
How was Orion amped when he tapped into Ds's amp? Ds had no amp at the time so neither did Orion.

Pretty sure he was amped in Countdown as when has Orion ever demonstrated the power to easily swat away the JLA with a wave of his hand using some kind of wind technique?

Originally posted by Allankles
You don't seem to know what I'm talking about. Raker ended up working on Apokolips for DS. That was the end of his story.

And Raker tackled him and then raised a weapon to his face. We've already had this discussion with you. How does getting tackled and having a weapon raised to your face qualify as embarrassing?



Orion was the agent of the Source, his amp allowed him to be on DS level i.e. they were evenly matched.



Time Trapper, Mordu - classic DS.



Nope.


so all i'm commenting on is "how does getting tackled and having a weapon raised to your face qualify as embarrassing?" well if some one tackled you and raised a weapon to your face how could that not be embarrassing especially for DS who at classic levels should have not allowed that at all. very low showing for ds in my opinion. and very embarrassing for ds who didn't even like superman putting his hand on his shoulder.

question how does this pertain to ds and areas fighting a gl's powers are vastly different.

by the way "KC" the scans of ds "beating" darksied are a joke I could beat anyone if there back was turned and i had a weapon it's different if they are facing me and have a weapon too.

good scan kc about darkseid and highfather fighting one on one. but what did it looked like highfather was weakened by and badly disorientated by losing his staff. So not quite the same as the ares and highfather fight.

not sure who would win does anybody know if ares has ever fought zeus since he and highfather are in the same club we could see them on the same level. maybe they are peers at the very least

Originally posted by jasofisc
by the way "KC" the scans of ds "beating" darksied are a joke I could beat anyone if there back was turned and i had a weapon it's different if they are facing me and have a weapon too.

good scan kc about darkseid and highfather fighting one on one. but what did it looked like highfather was weakened by and badly disorientated by losing his staff. So not quite the same as the ares and highfather fight.

and I see you missed the point of why I posted the scans, and of course it was not a good feat for DS it was a cheap shot as mentioned and explained earlier

and is similar to what happened to him when he fought Ares in the Source. Hence the scans.

Originally posted by -K-M-
and I see you missed the point of why I posted the scans, and of course it was not a good feat for DS it was a cheap shot as mentioned and explained earlier

and is similar to what happened to him when he fought Ares in the Source. Hence the scans.

still not seeing how ares fighting highfather in the source while warning him (he only said HF could be killed not that he lost power) is the same as DS using a weapon on HF while is back was turned. if you are just saying that ares had time to prepare for his fight with hf and so did ds i would agree but they are no ware near the same in the chance HF had.

took another look at the ares killing hf scan. And ares does say he prepared for a very long time and channeled his energy's. But I don't think that meant he was doing just for the battle with highfather I think it meant the whole scheme.

still not saying though that Ares did not have an unfair advatage

What? How is one person having prep and taking on somone who was not prepared not an unfair advantage?

Originally posted by Allankles
You don't seem to know what I'm talking about. Raker ended up working on Apokolips for DS. That was the end of his story.

And Raker tackled him and then raised a weapon to his face. We've already had this discussion with you. How does getting tackled and having a weapon raised to your face qualify as embarrassing?



Orion was the agent of the Source, his amp allowed him to be on DS level i.e. they were evenly matched.



Time Trapper, Mordu - classic DS.



Nope. Ds' sarmor was shreeded, he cut off access to his omega beams, he had Ds on his back and at his mercy. Proves a gl can take on Ds and beat him imo.

Raker ended up working for him because the guardians left him there. One on one and in battle without Ds's mighty armor and the yellow weakness Ds was getting has ass handed to him.

Yes, in dotng. In countdown neither was amped at the time they fought.

Gds isn't canon for current Ds. It's in the rules, brah.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Pretty sure he was amped in Countdown as when has Orion ever demonstrated the power to easily swat away the JLA with a wave of his hand using some kind of wind technique? How was orion amped in countdown? he called them off so he could take them on.

It was explained in dotng that the only way Orion was amped was if Ds was at the time so he could tap into the same power source. If Ds couldn't tap into it then neither could Orion. His access to the power source was cut off right before Orion boomtubed there.

Originally posted by jasofisc
still not saying though that Ares did not have an unfair advatage Exactly. He used his own powers to defeat Izaya and his prep allowed him access to that given situation to merge with the godwave.

Originally posted by quanchi112
How was orion amped in countdown? he called them off so he could take them on.

Check it again, he used that wind attack then told them to stop. Orion has never demonstrated any external force attacks, but it was potent enough to swat away the JLA

1. http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/Countdown2p11.jpg
2. http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/Countdown2p12.jpg

Originally posted by quanchi112
Exactly. He used his own powers to defeat Izaya and his prep allowed him access to that given situation to merge with the godwave.

One sided prep is an unfair advantage, how is that hard to grasp

Originally posted by -K-M-
Check it again, he used that wind attack then told them to stop. Orion has never demonstrated any external force attacks, but it was potent enough to swat away the JLA

1. http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/Countdown2p11.jpg
2. http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/Countdown2p12.jpg



One sideded prep is an unfair advantage, how is that hard to grasp Why do you even try its beyond pointless.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Check it again, he used that wind attack then told them to stop. Orion has never demonstrated any external force attacks, but it was potent enough to swat away the JLA

1. http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/Countdown2p11.jpg
2. http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/Countdown2p12.jpg



One sideded prep is an unfair advantage, how is that hard to grasp How is that supposed to prove he was amped? A gust of wind proves he was tapping into what again?

Ares used the onesided prep to get in that situation. He didn't amp himself beyond his own normal power levels. Ares easily killed Izaya. Accept it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
How is that supposed to prove he was amped? A gust of wind proves he was tapping into what again?

Ares used the onesided prep to get in that situation. He didn't amp himself beyond his own normal power levels. Ares easily killed Izaya. Accept it.

Ooooooh so Orion has done something like this before? So Orion without his harness has demonstrated well any form of attack other then physical in that range? You seriously are going to tell me that is a norm ability for him?

and used the environment ie. the Source which weakened Highfather and made it able for him to die

Originally posted by -K-M-
Ooooooh so Orion has done something like this before? So Orion without his harness has demonstrated well any form of attack other then physical in that range? You seriously are going to tell me that is a norm ability for him?

and used the environment ie. the Source which weakened Highfather and made it able for him to die

Orion has taken on Darkseid physically before. Simonson's series and another run, Pollak?

As for the battle, Darkseid wins.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Ds' sarmor was shreeded, he cut off access to his omega beams, he had Ds on his back and at his mercy. Proves a gl can take on Ds and beat him imo.

Raker ended up working for him because the guardians left him there. One on one and in battle without Ds's mighty armor and the yellow weakness Ds was getting has ass handed to him.



The armor getting torn up occurred in a matter of moments, all within the time Raker tackled him , it's not like they were torn in the course of a battle, the armor opened up when Raker tackled him.

The rings don't have the power to block of the Omegas, it would have been foolish to shoot the omegas against a force field that close to his face, you know?.. energetic backlash (given how the Omegas disintegrate matter).

Lastly, DS was hardly concerned by Raker's efforts, unless you think otherwise? Getting tackled is hardly embarrassing, nor is getting a force field bubble surrounding your eyes.


Originally posted by quanchi112
Gds isn't canon for current Ds.

I was talking about classic DS. And GDS was weaker than his younger self anyway.

Originally posted by cloud102
Orion has taken on Darkseid physically before. Simonson's series and another run, Pollak?

One time Darkseid intentially wanted to throw the fight, another time Darkseid treated him like a child.

Originally posted by -K-M-
One time Darkseid intentially wanted to throw the fight, another time Darkseid treated him like a child.

Simonson stated Orion DID get the upper hand PHYSICALLY. Plus Orion defeated Darkseid from the inside out.

Originally posted by -K-M-
One time Darkseid intentially wanted to throw the fight, another time Darkseid treated him like a child. Cloud already stated that the writer said had Ds held back Orion would have noticed. Physically, Orion is more than Ds imo.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Ooooooh so Orion has done something like this before? So Orion without his harness has demonstrated well any form of attack other then physical in that range? You seriously are going to tell me that is a norm ability for him?

and used the environment ie. the Source which weakened Highfather and made it able for him to die All he did was create a gust of wind.

He could only tap into the cosmic might Ds had stolen. He had no access to it on his own.

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/DotNG8p18-1.jpg

Originally posted by Allankles
The armor getting torn up occurred in a matter of moments, all within the time Raker tackled him , it's not like they were torn in the course of a battle, the armor opened up when Raker tackled him.

The rings don't have the power to block of the Omegas, it would have been foolish to shoot the omegas against a force field that close to his face, you know?.. energetic backlash (given how the Omegas disintegrate matter).

Lastly, DS was hardly concerned by Raker's efforts, unless you think otherwise? Getting tackled is hardly embarrassing, nor is getting a force field bubble surrounding your eyes.




I was talking about classic DS. And GDS was weaker than his younger self anyway. The armor opened when he shot him with the gun. Raker had the advantage and Ds hadn't even shown the ability to defend himself.


Yes, they do. The rings negated the omega effect. The scan makes it perfectly clear.

Being on your back at your opponent's mercy is very embarrassing imo.


Ds was much more powerful in gds than he is currently. Gds Darkseid would hand current Superman his ass. Current Ds can't seem to beat him on his own anymore.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Ooooooh so Orion has done something like this before? So Orion without his harness has demonstrated well any form of attack other then physical in that range? You seriously are going to tell me that is a norm ability for him?

and used the environment ie. the Source which weakened Highfather and made it able for him to die

where does it say it weakened highfather????? it only said that because were they were that highfather could die. never any mention about weakening him.

Go on Quan. Show them the scan AFTER Raker was fighting Darkseid. Show them what happened to Raker. The very next panel.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Go on Quan. Show them the scan AFTER Raker was fighting Darkseid. Show them what happened to Raker. The very next panel. His army and the guardians abandoned him. In the actual battle Raker had him on his back and at his mercy.

Originally posted by quanchi112
His army and the guardians abandoned him. In the actual battle Raker had him on his back and at his mercy.

SHOW THEM THE SCANS. Or I will. Your lies will not stand the light of truth.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/GreenLanternv380-PageGiant3pg58.jpg http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/GreenLanternv380-PageGiant3pg59.jpg

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/GreenLanternv380-PageGiant3pg60.jpg

and to reinforce the point:
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/orion18kebbin01.jpg

The Green Lantern Corp LOST THE WAR. The Guardians made a truce with DS and left Raker behind as part of the deal.

Just as DS planned.
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/orion18kebbin21.jpg
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/orion18kebbin22.jpg

^^Nothing I said was untrue. Ds clearly won the war due to Desaad's discovery of the yellow weakness. Then during the war raker still humiliated Ds even in his yellow armor and even though his ranks were decimated. The only thing that saved Ds were the guardians because they wanted peace.

One on one Raker had his number.

Originally posted by quanchi112


One on one Raker had his number.

You expect people to believe that after the nonevent that was their little altercation?

Originally posted by Allankles
You expect people to believe that after the nonevent that was their little altercation? Yes. Many people believe it because the scans don't lie. The lantern trounced Darkseid who showed an inability to even mount a counter to anything Raker threw his way up until the point of the Guardian's interference.

the guardians deserve to die after what they did to that guy. I'm glad that hal killed them all. they never should have reconed that hal driven to insanity killed them. and in no way did those new scans show anything that contradicted what quanchi said he never mentioned gl's wining the war just that one on one fight. (that's not even on topic) are you high priest what did he lie about????? all in all a very low low showing for classic ds.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes. Many people believe it because the scans don't lie. The lantern trounced Darkseid who showed an inability to even mount a counter to anything Raker threw his way up until the point of the Guardian's interference.

It was a tackle , Raker didn't throw much his way.

how does ares survive if he gets the omega effect and how would he react to the omega sanction

Originally posted by jasofisc
the guardians deserve to die after what they did to that guy. I'm glad that hal killed them all. they never should have reconed that hal driven to insanity killed them.

The Guardians didn't even bother fighting Hal. They just let him have the power and expected Sinestro to do their work for them.

Originally posted by Allankles
It was a tackle , Raker didn't throw much his way. I didn't mean literally. Raker blasted into his armor, cut off the omega effect, and took him to the ground. Then he had a shovel to his face while ds was helpless on his back before he was saved by the Guardians.

Originally posted by jasofisc
the guardians deserve to die after what they did to that guy. I'm glad that hal killed them all. they never should have reconed that hal driven to insanity killed them. and in no way did those new scans show anything that contradicted what quanchi said he never mentioned gl's wining the war just that one on one fight. (that's not even on topic) are you high priest what did he lie about????? all in all a very low low showing for classic ds. Exactly. I don't know what Trick was thinking and it had nothing to do with their confrontation.

The Guardians are pieces of shit for having him lead their army and then turning their backs on him and leaving him to Darkseid and apokolips.

Originally posted by Enyalus
The Guardians didn't even bother fighting Hal. They just let him have the power and expected Sinestro to do their work for them.

point was they deserved to die and hal killed them.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I didn't mean literally. Raker blasted into his armor, cut off the omega effect, and took him to the ground. Then he had a shovel to his face while ds was helpless on his back before he was saved by the Guardians.

He didn't cut off the omega effect since DS never even shot it, he put a forcefield next to his face as he tackled him.

He used a weapon to open the armor as he tackled DS. Everything he did was in the space of one tackle.

I don't think the shovel would have done much to DS.

Originally posted by Allankles
He didn't cut off the omega effect since DS never even shot it, he put a forcefield next to his face as he tackled him.

He used a weapon to open the armor as he tackled DS. Everything he did was in the space of one tackle.

I don't think the shovel would have done much to DS. He explained in the scan he couldn't hit him with it. Why else would he erect the shield over his face?

Yes, he damaged him and pretty much wrecked his armor in one move. That's how effective Raker was and lucky for Darkseid the Guardians intervened.

The shovel would have damaged him imo. If one tackle can destroy his armor and leave his face cracked that shovel was going to mess his face up even more.

Originally posted by cloud102
Simonson stated Orion DID get the upper hand PHYSICALLY. Plus Orion defeated Darkseid from the inside out.

and where was this? as Darkseid has dominated Orion physically before

Originally posted by quanchi112
All he did was create a gust of wind.

He could only tap into the cosmic might Ds had stolen. He had no access to it on his own. ]

It clearly wasn't just a gust of wind, and was an ability he has NEVER demonstrated before. Then again all you said Orion did was tell them to go away.

Originally posted by jasofisc
where does it say it weakened highfather????? it only said that because were they were that highfather could die. never any mention about weakening him.

If you can kill a god who as noted needed to be in this special location to do it you don't think that's a form of weakening? Seriously

Some of these comments on this board are just silly

Originally posted by -K-M-
and where was this? as Darkseid has dominated Orion physically before

Orion killed DS by physically beating him in NG v3 #2 and Orion also got the better of him in a physical gladitorial match on Apokolips in Orion #5 (which is probably what Cloud was referencing, seeing as it was written by Simonson).

Originally posted by Enyalus
Orion killed DS by physically beating him in NG v3 #2 and Orion also got the better of him in a physical gladitorial match on Apokolips in Orion #5 (which is probably what Cloud was referencing, seeing as it was written by Simonson).

Once again I'm not suprized.

I suggest you read the story as you leaving out HUGE amount of context, as it Darkseid let Orion win both times, case in point....

1. http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/NewGodsv3_08-20.jpg
2. http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/NewGodsv3_08-21.jpg

Originally posted by -K-M-
Once again I'm not suprized.

I suggest you read the story as you leaving out HUGE amount of context, as it Darkseid let Orion win both times, case in point....

I've read both stories. I know what happened. All I said was that Orion physically beat Darkseid twice. Which happened. And I think the latter was what Cloud was referencing.

He beat him because Darkseid as noted allowed him to, that's ignoring HUGE amounts of context

Uuuuuh...this board.

I believe he is referencing the events, not the legitimacy of Orion's wins over DS.

Originally posted by -K-M-
He beat him because Darkseid as noted allowed him to, that's ignoring HUGE amounts of context

Uuuuuh...this board.

Patricide was the only way to taint the Source enough for DS's purposes, true. I'm not really convinced DS let him win in Orion, though. Regardless of what DS claims. Whatever.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Patricide was the only way to taint the Source enough for DS's purposes, true. I'm not really convinced DS let him win in Orion, though. Regardless of what DS claims. Whatever.

Ummm...what? It was even referenced by other characters Darkseid did this on purpose to taint the source. Also other characters including Metron verified this

Or maybe not.


Anyway, KM why are you trying to act like you know anything about non-Canadian characters?

I'm sorry I sometimes get confused

Originally posted by -K-M-
Ummm...what? It was even referenced by other characters Darkseid did this on purpose to taint the source. Also other characters including Metron verified this

You're talking about his death during NG #2. I know. And I agree.

Originally posted by Enyalus
You're talking about his death during NG #2. I know. And I agree.

and I'm talking about the incident in Orion, which Metron varifies he threw the fight on purpose to taint Orion himself and on multiple occasions. It was clearly stated both instances Darkseid threw those fights...on purpose!

Originally posted by -K-M-
and where was this? as Darkseid has dominated Orion physically before
Originally posted by Enyalus
Orion killed DS by physically beating him in NG v3 #2 and Orion also got the better of him in a physical gladitorial match on Apokolips in Orion #5 (which is probably what Cloud was referencing, seeing as it was written by Simonson).
Originally posted by Enyalus
I've read both stories. I know what happened. All I said was that Orion physically beat Darkseid twice. Which happened. And I think the latter was what Cloud was referencing.


The underlined part is basically whats important. You asked Cloud a question. That's really all he could've been referencing. I was simply pointing it out.

and then you said "I'm not really convinced DS let him win in Orion" which isn't the case.

Originally posted by -K-M-
and then you said "I'm not really convinced DS let him win in Orion" which isn't the case.
After being pressed on the matter, lol. Its really a cop-out, akin to the Thanos clone thing. Anytime he loses, oh, it was intentional. That or it was an avatar and didn't have his true power. Or it was Desaad disguised as DS. Etc.

Annoys me. A lot.

No it was directly stated in the same story arc, not months or years down the road but in the same story. That wasn't a cop-out as it was planned from the very start. The retcon of Dessad acting as Darkseid is a cop out.

Originally posted by -K-M-
No it was directly stated in the same story arc, not months or years down the road but in the same story. That wasn't a cop-out as it was planned from the very start. The retcon of Dessad acting as Darkseid is a cop out.

I'd forgotten about that. DS did throw the fight in Orion # 5.

I'm going off of what Walt Simonson said (time and time again) on the New Gods Message Board (you know, the writer himself) that Orion did indeed get the upper hand on Darkseid and would have WON the fight.

All the best, cloud102.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
SHOW THEM THE SCANS. Or I will. Your lies will not stand the light of truth.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/GreenLanternv380-PageGiant3pg58.jpg http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/GreenLanternv380-PageGiant3pg59.jpg

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/GreenLanternv380-PageGiant3pg60.jpg

and to reinforce the point:
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/orion18kebbin01.jpg

The Green Lantern Corp LOST THE WAR. The Guardians made a truce with DS and left Raker behind as part of the deal.

Just as DS planned.
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/orion18kebbin21.jpg
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/orion18kebbin22.jpg

so? all this just shows that raker, who ever he is, did beat the crap out of ds and had him at spears point. he didnt loose coz ds beat him, he lost coz of the guardians intervention or something like that.

and as for ds vs ares... dont know crap about them both so meh...

Originally posted by -K-M-
and where was this? as Darkseid has dominated Orion physically before



It clearly wasn't just a gust of wind, and was an ability he has NEVER demonstrated before. Then again all you said Orion did was tell them to go away.



If you can kill a god who as noted needed to be in this special location to do it you don't think that's a form of weakening? Seriously

Some of these comments on this board are just silly I piosted a scan proving that Orion coul donly tap into the might Ds was stealing. Ds wasn't tapping into it at the time so neither was Orion. Pretty easy to understand. Oh and if you still believe he was tapping into the source so was Darkseid making it an even fight.Originally posted by cloud102
I'm going off of what Walt Simonson said (time and time again) on the New Gods Message Board (you know, the writer himself) that Orion did indeed get the upper hand on Darkseid and would have WON the fight.

All the best, cloud102. Exactly. Physically Orion has his number.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I piosted a scan proving that Orion coul donly tap into the might Ds was stealing. Ds wasn't tapping into it at the time so neither was Orion. Pretty easy to understand. Oh and if you still believe he was tapping into the source so was Darkseid making it an even fight. Exactly.

That's nice, but the sheer fact DS and Orion were creating energy fields merely just colliding and Orion was contionously emitting energy from his body in Countdown tends to show that someone was different. Or do you seriously believe that was normal Orion doing all those energy attacks? We know COuntdown, Crisis and Death of New Gods don't match up (Dan even apologized publicly for this), but we did see in Countdown Orion was doing things has has NEVER demonstrated to be able to.

Originally posted by cloud102
I'm going off of what Walt Simonson said (time and time again) on the New Gods Message Board (you know, the writer himself) that Orion did indeed get the upper hand on Darkseid and would have WON the fight.

All the best, cloud102.

and where's this post then? So basically it was a comment by a writer outside of a comic? Thought we didn't take interviews comments as canon?

Originally posted by quanchi112
He explained in the scan he couldn't hit him with it. Why else would he erect the shield over his face?

Yes, he damaged him and pretty much wrecked his armor in one move. That's how effective Raker was and lucky for Darkseid the Guardians intervened.

The shovel would have damaged him imo. If one tackle can destroy his armor and leave his face cracked that shovel was going to mess his face up even more.

His face is always cracked, his flesh is made of a gravel like substance. And pray tell, how was a shovel going to affect? That came off more like Raker getting frustrated by the situation.

The armor was wrecked, DS wasn't.

Uuuuuuh...I'm done with this thread, some of the comments made here simply astound me.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Uuuuuuh...I'm done with this thread, some of the comments made here simply astound me. yeah, stick to moon knight threads will ya!

Originally posted by gogogadgetgo
so? all this just shows that raker, who ever he is, did beat the crap out of ds and had him at spears point. he didnt loose coz ds beat him, he lost coz of the guardians intervention or something like that.

and as for ds vs ares... dont know crap about them both so meh...

.............Since no one is smart enough to connect the dots, I'll spell it out.

If Raker actually had a chance at killing DS, or had him at his mercy, why did the Guardians sue for peace and leave Raker on Apokolips?

Originally posted by -K-M-
That's nice, but the sheer fact DS and Orion were creating energy fields merely just colliding and Orion was contionously emitting energy from his body in Countdown tends to show that someone was different. Or do you seriously believe that was normal Orion doing all those energy attacks? We know COuntdown, Crisis and Death of New Gods don't match up (Dan even apologized publicly for this), but we did see in Countdown Orion was doing things has has NEVER demonstrated to be able to.



and where's this post then? So basically it was a comment by a writer outside of a comic? Thought we didn't take interviews comments as canon? The point is Orion didn't have an advantage for one because he only tapped into the cosmic might Ds was stealing from. Why do you have a hard time accepting that? You want to pretend Orion was amped while darkseid wasn't. Not the case.

Darkseid lost his connection to the powerup right before Orion boomtubed there. If you read death of the new gods then you should be aware of this.

Originally posted by Allankles
His face is always cracked, his flesh is made of a gravel like substance. And pray tell, how was a shovel going to affect? That came off more like Raker getting frustrated by the situation.

The armor was wrecked, DS wasn't. Look at his face you can see the damage. His armor was virtually destroyed in one tackle. Ds didn't even prove capable of defending himself.Originally posted by TricksterPriest
.............Since no one is smart enough to connect the dots, I'll spell it out.

If Raker actually had a chance at killing DS, or had him at his mercy, why did the Guardians sue for peace and leave Raker on Apokolips? If you kill Darkseid you don't automatically lord over apokolips. The rest don't magically die. Raker had him beat one on one and the Guardians saved Ds because they wanted a truce.

They made a truce because they LOST. Raker's attack was basically a suicide run. If Raker was such a threat, why did DS let him live. Why did Darkseid crush Raker's hand and ring in an earlier encounter, if Raker had him at his mercy?

And stop using DOTNG. That shit isn't canon in the strictest sense, and you're not smart enough to understand why.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
They made a truce because they LOST. Raker's attack was basically a suicide run. If Raker was such a threat, why did DS let him live. Why did Darkseid crush Raker's hand and ring in an earlier encounter, if Raker had him at his mercy?

And stop using DOTNG. That shit isn't canon in the strictest sense, and you're not smart enough to understand why. They lost the war due to desaad's discovery and by exploitation of the yellow weakness. Raker wasn't a threat until the truce had been signed off and Raker was left to his mercy. Raker cannot defeat the entire planet, but Doomsday could and did.

Raker didn't know who Ds was and really anything about him, but consider him a quick learner because round 2 belonged to him.

Enlighten me trick.

DS will own Ares, DS would have back plans on back up plans by 100X too deal with Ares, this the same DS that devolved PC Validus with a galance, and PC Validus was consider sky father level being.

I'd call a stalemate.

In a fight neither would make it out alive.

Darkseid took down Ares's entire pantheon. Hell, the Olympians and Asgardians were scared of Darkseid turning his attentions towards them.

And need I remind you that Captain Marvel and Black Adam's gods are KIA. And all information points to the olympian pantheon being KIA too. They may have been revived, but the fact remains that they probably fell.

Originally posted by the Darkone
and PC Validus was consider sky father level being. by whom?

^ Anybody that buys into classic Savage Hulk hype/hyperbole, as long as it's not a Marvel character.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
.............Since no one is smart enough to connect the dots, I'll spell it out.

If Raker actually had a chance at killing DS, or had him at his mercy, why did the Guardians sue for peace and leave Raker on Apokolips?

dunno..diplomacy? if raker killed ds, the war would still go on and there would be no peace. but with a truce, there would be some sort of peace.

but then again, dont really know crap, i'll probably try and get a hold of the whole story if and when i feel like it.

Originally posted by -K-M-
and where was this? as Darkseid has dominated Orion physically before



It clearly wasn't just a gust of wind, and was an ability he has NEVER demonstrated before. Then again all you said Orion did was tell them to go away.



If you can kill a god who as noted needed to be in this special location to do it you don't think that's a form of weakening? Seriously

Some of these comments on this board are just silly

no reading your own thoughts into the story. Hightfather nor ares stated in the book that highfather was weakened only that in that place he could die. Your logic is getting ridicules. I guess its a form of weakening his immortality if that's what you mean. but your trying to imply that highfather had less power. This is not supported by the book.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
.............Since no one is smart enough to connect the dots, I'll spell it out.

If Raker actually had a chance at killing DS, or had him at his mercy, why did the Guardians sue for peace and leave Raker on Apokolips?

they stated right in there that ds was best person to rule apokolips. much like after hal killed ds as the specter the presence didn't let him die. I don't understand it but that's what the comics say and there the cannon.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
I'd call a stalemate.

In a fight neither would make it out alive.

finally a comment about the actually fight. and not about assumptions and crap that doesn't even figure into a fight between these two.

Originally posted by jasofisc
no reading your own thoughts into the story. Hightfather nor ares stated in the book that highfather was weakened only that in that place he could die. Your logic is getting ridicules. I guess its a form of weakening his immortality if that's what you mean. but your trying to imply that highfather had less power. This is not supported by the book.

Against my better judgement...one more reply

Once again...what? So if an attack can kill you which it previously wouldn't that's not a form of weakening? Good god, but then again you said one-sided prep wasn't an unfair advantage. Read Thor #11 exact same situation occured with some other gods and a mortally wounding attack.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Read Thor #11 exact same situation occured with some other gods and a mortally wounding attack. no it didn't

Originally posted by Starscream M
no it didn't

.....then what do you call what happened to Alar and the other Norse god?

You honestly have no clue what happened do you?

Originally posted by -K-M-
.....then what do you call what happened to Alar and the other Norse god?

You honestly have no clue what happened do you? why do you mock me?!

I'm saying it wasn't the exact same situation...so there.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Darkseid took down Ares's entire pantheon. Hell, the Olympians and Asgardians were scared of Darkseid turning his attentions towards them.

And need I remind you that Captain Marvel and Black Adam's gods are KIA. And all information points to the olympian pantheon being KIA too. They may have been revived, but the fact remains that they probably fell. He took down their pantheons with prep. This is about a battle with Ares himself.

Originally posted by Starscream M
why do you mock me?!

I'm saying it wasn't the exact same situation...so there.

Did you read the issue? as it really is it even ended the same way too

Originally posted by -K-M-
Against my better judgement...one more reply

Once again...what? So if an attack can kill you which it previously wouldn't that's not a form of weakening? Good god, but then again you said one-sided prep wasn't an unfair advantage. Read Thor #11 exact same situation occured with some other gods and a mortally wounding attack.

nooooo i said ares did have an advantage. once again reading what you want into people's post then tying to attack them personally. and did i not say that it weakened his immortalty. there is just no evidence that highfather's over all power and might was weakened. to say so is to just read your own thought into what's happening. Ares didn't say that highfather was weakened enough to be killed, just that at the source he can be killed. by the way citing another book from another company where the laws of magic are different does not equate to support. it' a different story with different characters. whose powers are widely different unless anybody in marvel rely on the source for there power.

Read what happened in Thor, it's not about different powerlevels it's about gods fighting and getting killed in places that their attacks would not have done much. Just what happened to Highfather

Your right, this sentence where I thought you said Ares did not have an unfair advatage was/// "still not saying though that Ares did not have an unfair advatage" That was a mistake on my behalf, sorry about that.

so back on topic i see it like this darkseid 6 out of 10 the four times i see Ares wining would be though treachery. Darkseid would have him beat on the ground then walk away in disgust then Ares would stab him in the back. No matter how you look at it Ares' weapons can kill skyfather level beings, if you don't accept high father there is hades. So ares even without prep four times out of ten i see him getting in a good stab. The way I see it is in terms of speed = in terms of strength Darksied has the edge, in terms of fighting ability going to have to go with Ares, in terms of energy that would got to darkseid the only think that makes darksied get 6 instead of 5 in my opinion is that I like him more and would want to see him win. even though Ares outfit looks much better.

I'm going to regret this.

But..........given the nature of Darkseid's true power and the revelations of the 4th world, is this true Darkseid, or just his shadow?

Boomtubed, or not?

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I'm going to regret this.

But..........given the nature of Darkseid's true power and the revelations of the 4th world, is this true Darkseid, or just his shadow?

Boomtubed, or not? and is he boomtubed or not

Originally posted by -K-M-
That was a mistake on my behalf, sorry about that. you seem quite prone to making mistakes, Mungi.

Originally posted by jasofisc
nooooo i said ares did have an advantage. once again reading what you want into people's post then tying to attack them personally. and did i not say that it weakened his immortalty. there is just no evidence that highfather's over all power and might was weakened. to say so is to just read your own thought into what's happening. Ares didn't say that highfather was weakened enough to be killed, just that at the source he can be killed. by the way citing another book from another company where the laws of magic are different does not equate to support. it' a different story with different characters. whose powers are widely different unless anybody in marvel rely on the source for there power.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I'm going to regret this.

But..........given the nature of Darkseid's true power and the revelations of the 4th world, is this true Darkseid, or just his shadow?

Boomtubed, or not?

afraid i don't understand so i'm going to say classic @$$ kicking darksied.

but if you want to giver your opinon for any other darkseid incarnation be my guest.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I'm going to regret this.

But..........given the nature of Darkseid's true power and the revelations of the 4th world, is this true Darkseid, or just his shadow?

Boomtubed, or not? When have we seen the true Darkseid in all his glory?

Final Crisis. Which if you had any brains, proves what the new gods fans said all along.

The new gods had never been seen at their true scale and power in the regular DCU. Only in the context of the 4th world or via boomtubed forms.

The vast entity we saw in Final Crisis was merely the true manifestation of Darkseid and his power in the regular DCU. A fallen devil god crushed the entire DCU as he fell. A dying god. The act of a dying and critically wounded Darkseid.

Nuff said.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Final Crisis. Which if you had any brains, proves what the new gods fans said all along.

The new gods had never been seen at their true scale and power in the regular DCU. Only in the context of the 4th world or via boomtubed forms.

The vast entity we saw in Final Crisis was merely the true manifestation of Darkseid and his power in the regular DCU. A fallen devil god crushed the entire DCU as he fell. A dying god. The act of a dying and critically wounded Darkseid.

Nuff said.

FC was a joke in so many ways. And if your using FC darksied it's a little unfair concidering he had the ALE, and other huge charges to his powers and ablities. all ares has to do if it's FC darksied is give him a beating while one of his followers (the kind that he makes so as to not be addtional help) finds that bullet.

Missed the point.

Originally posted by jasofisc
FC was a joke in so many ways. And if your using FC darksied it's a little unfair concidering he had the ALE, and other huge charges to his powers and ablities. all ares has to do if it's FC darksied is give him a beating while one of his followers (the kind that he makes so as to not be addtional help) finds that bullet.

Originally posted by jasofisc
FC was a joke in so many ways. And if your using FC darksied it's a little unfair concidering he had the ALE, and other huge charges to his powers and ablities. all ares has to do if it's FC darksied is give him a beating while one of his followers (the kind that he makes so as to not be addtional help) finds that bullet.

FC was one of the more thoughtful big events in recent years.

It had mythical proportions, more than I can say for events like Infinite Crisis, Secret Invasion et al.

Revelations, Beyond even the first 5 issues of the main FC were excellent in their build up, and showed a sense of vulnerability for the heroes that we'd never seen in a canon big event story.

Anti climatic at the end? Sure (always the case when deus ex machinas are used), but the heroes were hit hard in all areas.

Originally posted by Starscream M
you seem quite prone to making mistakes, Mungi.

Oh the irony of it all, especially coming from you

Originally posted by jasofisc
FC was a joke in so many ways. And if your using FC darksied it's a little unfair concidering he had the ALE, and other huge charges to his powers and ablities. all ares has to do if it's FC darksied is give him a beating while one of his followers (the kind that he makes so as to not be addtional help) finds that bullet.

You didn't understand it very well did you?
btw DS

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Missed the point.


I under stood the point that Darkseid dying was crushing the dc universe in his death throws. But serously don't you with the "ANIT-LIFE" EQUATION had something to do with that. didn't ds also die in DOTNG when his heart was ripped out by orion at least phiscally anyway that didn't destroy a universe then. So where left with two options for for what happened one is the because DS had the full ALE and was dying the ALE added to the crushing of DCU or was the cause of it, the second is that it was like LOTR and the spirit of DS is more powerful then the physical shell he wears.

Originally posted by jasofisc
I under stood the point that Darkseid dying was crushing the dc universe in his death throws. But serously don't you with the "ANIT-LIFE" EQUATION had something to do with that. didn't ds also die in DOTNG when his heart was ripped out by orion at least phiscally anyway that didn't destroy a universe then. So where left with two options for for what happened one is the because DS had the full ALE and was dying the ALE added to the crushing of DCU or was the cause of it, the second is that it was like LOTR and the spirit of DS is more powerful then the physical shell he wears.

We've proven that the ALE was not responsible for the multiverse crushing, only Darkseid's enslaving of everyone's souls and wills.

The black hole at the center of our galaxy was Darkseid's heart. A BLACK HOLE WHERE HIS HEART WAS. A MASSIVE DOOMSDAY SINGULARITY WHERE HIS HEART USED TO BE.

DOTNG isn't exactly canon anymore. The entire premise of that story has been retconned into a apocryphal account of the new god's end. IE: It's not exactly what happened.

LOTR? Not true. Sauron wasn't a vast cosmic entity crashing into Middle Earth and dragging it down while critically wounded. The New Gods are not just physical entities, they are abstract concepts.

Darkseid is the god of evil and corruption, and ignoring the ALE for a second, Anti-Life. He embodies the concept of the ALE more than any other character in DC. The full scale of Darkseid's form and spirit was too much for the DCU to sustain.

Thus, a hell where everything is DARKSEID. DS attempted to claim the mantle of the Presence itself by enslaving everyone's free will and thus surplanting him as the new god and master of everything.


Because Free Will is the key. That's the gift of the presence. and without that, there is no life. And if everyone's will is taken by anti-life, then their belief and souls being enslaved by Darkseid's will would make him GOD.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Oh the irony of it all, especially coming from you I'm not very found of you

Originally posted by Starscream M
I'm not very found of you But are you fond of him?

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Final Crisis. Which if you had any brains, proves what the new gods fans said all along.

The new gods had never been seen at their true scale and power in the regular DCU. Only in the context of the 4th world or via boomtubed forms.

The vast entity we saw in Final Crisis was merely the true manifestation of Darkseid and his power in the regular DCU. A fallen devil god crushed the entire DCU as he fell. A dying god. The act of a dying and critically wounded Darkseid.

Nuff said. Nope. He had the ale the entire time and did nothing under his own power to cement a new power ranking for himself. Originally posted by Allankles
FC was one of the more thoughtful big events in recent years.

It had mythical proportions, more than I can say for events like Infinite Crisis, Secret Invasion et al.

Revelations, Beyond even the first 5 issues of the main FC were excellent in their build up, and showed a sense of vulnerability for the heroes that we'd never seen in a canon big event story.

Anti climatic at the end? Sure (always the case when deus ex machinas are used), but the heroes were hit hard in all areas. IYO. Most mock fc to no end. I thought it was boring and lacked any kind of worthwhile ending. It will be buried in the dcu.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Nope. He had the ale the entire time and did nothing under his own power to cement a new power ranking for himself. IYO. Most mock fc to no end. I thought it was boring and lacked any kind of worthwhile ending. It will be buried in the dcu.

what he said

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
We've proven that the ALE was not responsible for the multiverse crushing, only Darkseid's enslaving of everyone's souls and wills.

The black hole at the center of our galaxy was Darkseid's heart. A BLACK HOLE WHERE HIS HEART WAS. A MASSIVE DOOMSDAY SINGULARITY WHERE HIS HEART USED TO BE.

DOTNG isn't exactly canon anymore. The entire premise of that story has been retconned into a apocryphal account of the new god's end. IE: It's not exactly what happened.

LOTR? Not true. Sauron wasn't a vast cosmic entity crashing into Middle Earth and dragging it down while critically wounded. The New Gods are not just physical entities, they are abstract concepts.

Darkseid is the god of evil and corruption, and ignoring the ALE for a second, Anti-Life. He embodies the concept of the ALE more than any other character in DC. The full scale of Darkseid's form and spirit was too much for the DCU to sustain.

Thus, a hell where everything is DARKSEID. DS attempted to claim the mantle of the Presence itself by enslaving everyone's free will and thus surplanting him as the new god and master of everything.


Because Free Will is the key. That's the gift of the presence. and without that, there is no life. And if everyone's will is taken by anti-life, then their belief and souls being enslaved by Darkseid's will would make him GOD.

the point of bringing up the LOTR part was that the soul of Sauron did damage when it went down.

why isn't DOTNG cannon anymore show me the recon because from what i can tell FC happened after DOTNG and FC just contradicted DOTNG because grant can't write, or read. Also fc was a huge let down in what way was it the day evil won? like all the promotions said.

Originally posted by jasofisc
the point of bringing up the LOTR part was that the soul of Sauron did damage when it went down.

why isn't DOTNG cannon anymore show me the recon because from what i can tell FC happened after DOTNG and FC just contradicted DOTNG because grant can't write, or read. Also fc was a huge let down in what way was it the day evil won? like all the promotions said.

In FC 6 and FC Secret Files points out that some stuff in DTNG isn't correct. He won against New Genesis in the Fourth World, he then won against Earth (near death) and was only stopped when the Flash (Barry) returned which nobody expected.