Stalemate

Lord Feron

Originally posted by Placidity
Ok, who do you think will stalemate each of the characters on this list. In other words, in your opinion would be impossible to pick a decisive winner between the two.

(Don't have to do all of them at once...)

* Batman
* Spiderman
* Wolverine
* Colossus
* Hulk
* Juggernaut
* Wonder Woman
* Martian Manhunter
* Captain Atom
* Captain Marvel
* Magneto
* Superman
* Silver Surfer
* Thor
* Darkseid
* Iceman

Hulk vs Shaggy man
Colossus vs Sebastian Shaw

can't think of any more right now..

starlock

Batman-Nightwing
Spiderman-venom
Wolverine-omega red
Colossus-thing
Hulk-Pitt
Juggernaut-Konvict
Wonder Woman- Captain Marvel (Shazam)
Martian Manhunter-Captain Comet
Captain Atom-Firestorm
Captain Marvel-Wonderwoman
Magneto- Vulcan
Superman-Orion
Silver Surfer
Thor-Beta Ray bill
Darkseid-Odin
Iceman- Ymir

Naija boy

* Batman-Captain America
* Spiderman-cant think of anyone
* Wolverine-Omega Red
* Colossus-Sasquatch
* Hulk-Pitt
* Juggernaut-Doomsday
* Wonder Woman-Captain Marvel(Monica)
* Martian Manhunter-cant think of anyone
* Captain Atom-Firestorm
* Captain Marvel-Orion
* Magneto-Iceman
* Superman-Black Adam
* Silver Surfer-cant think of anyone
* Thor-Cant think of anyone
* Darkseid-Cant think of anyone
* Iceman-Magneto

gogogadgetgo

* Batman - captain america (steve rogers)

* Colossus - thing

* Juggernaut - wwh

* Captain Marvel - sentry

* Silver Surfer - thor

psycho gundam

Knowsbleed33

Originally posted by golem370
* Juggernaut vs Harald Jaekelsson

This would actually be an interesting fight.

Juk3n

Batman and Steve Rogers?

GTFO!

golem370

Superman vs Gladiator

Placidity

Originally posted by psycho gundam
a perfect clone of the character.

History tells us that clones always lose.

Space M ummy

Some of these responses are LOL.

Thor had about three decisive wins over the surfer BEFORE he turned
into a skyfather. Current Thor curbstomps the surfer and then some.
Keep in mind that outside of say, timetravel, they have the same skillset but thor is the much, much, MUCH better combatant.

one of these individuals can be depowered and/or has severe weaknesses to the skillsets of the other two. No way this is a stalemate.
The second someone bombarded superman with red solar, K-nite, BFR'ed him somewhere fatal or hit him point blank with a godforce blast he would be in serious trouble.

It's not a "stalemate" when one combatant has an edge over the other, even if that edge is only 6/10.

which brings us to this. You can debate all day who knows more martial arts, but that argument is pointless. Both have come across and defeated masters of every fighting style under the sun. Knowing 100 styles versus 101 or 110 isn't going to matter.

What DOES matter is that the SS serum makes it impossible to be stronger, faster, or have superior physical stats to Rogers unless one is by definition superhuman. (which batman isn't.) This gives rogers a slight edge but not a definitive one until we consider that the SS serum also eliminates or severely reduces fatigue toxins in the body, making stamina essentially limitless for rogers, and not for batman.

So now we have to consider that batman is up against an opponent who by definition is going to be physically superior and won't tire out. Even every gadget on his belt isn't going to help him overcome that kind of advantage. (give him everything in the damn batcave and significant prep and it's another story.) In a no prep standard equipment fight it's rogers here more often than not, but not a 10/10.

Spiderman gets curbstomped by venom every time without severe CIS/PIS. The symbiote is immune to anything but Fire and Sonics, neither of which is in spidey's powerset. The symbiote also doesn't set off the spider sense and can't be "blinded" either. Spiderman is unquestionably smarter but in a neutral arena without some conveniently placed help, there's not really a good way for peter to win.

Dr Will Hatch

Originally posted by Space M ummy
Some of these responses are LOL.

which brings us to this. You can debate all day who knows more martial arts, but that argument is pointless. Both have come across and defeated masters of every fighting style under the sun. Knowing 100 styles versus 101 or 110 isn't going to matter.

What DOES matter is that the SS serum makes it impossible to be stronger, faster, or have superior physical stats to Rogers unless one is by definition superhuman. (which batman isn't.) This gives rogers a slight edge but not a definitive one until we consider that the SS serum also eliminates or severely reduces fatigue toxins in the body, making stamina essentially limitless for rogers, and not for batman.

So now we have to consider that batman is up against an opponent who by definition is going to be physically superior and won't tire out. Even every gadget on his belt isn't going to help him overcome that kind of advantage. (give him everything in the damn batcave and significant prep and it's another story.) In a no prep standard equipment fight it's rogers here more often than not, but not a 10/10.

Batman has had training by mystics that allows him to channel "chi" and other energies that allow him to be above peak human.

Space M ummy

Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
Batman has had training by mystics that allows him to channel "chi" and other energies that allow him to be above peak human.

Batman is peak human, and his body still generates fatigue poisons. period. GTFO of here with that. Batman isn't Iron Fist.

Dr Will Hatch

Are you going to ignore feats that suggest otherwise? Even by comic book physics Batman can't only be a peak human. Would he lose to Captain America in an endurance contest? Yes, but he is at least meta.

Space M ummy

Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
Are you going to ignore feats that suggest otherwise? Even by comic book physics Batman can't only be a peak human. Would he lose to Captain America in an endurance contest? Yes, but he is at least meta.

unless batman is explicitly stated somewhere to be superhuman, he's still only peak human. Cap himself has some rather ridiculous feats (such as throwing his shield faster than a speeding rocket in flight and splitting said rocket in half) but is still just peak human.

There's no source anywhere that definitively gives batman superhuman stats from any source. He's skilled, brilliant, and very trained but genetically and physically he's only human. This means by DEFINITION Rogers outranks him physically via the SS serum. It's an advantage but not a huge one- both have beaten stronger opponents on a regular basis. Batman vs. Bane and Killer Croc, Cap versus USagent, Spiderman, etc.

The endurance thing is a bigger edge than you think. being able to perform at peak output indefinitely versus your opponent is a massive, massive advantage. Even the strongest/fastest man alive can only perform at that level for a few minutes. Imagine for a second that Batman is fighting himself. equal training, equal stats, the whole 9.

now imagine that he wins the fight against said clone, only to find he has to fight 9 or 10 more completely rested clones back to back. there's no way he wins that scenario. He's going to be getting weaker and more fatigued the longer he goes on, while the clones (or rogers, in this case) don't. They're as fresh as if they just stepped out of the shower.

Dr Will Hatch

Originally posted by Space M ummy
unless batman is explicitly stated somewhere to be superhuman, he's still only peak human. Cap himself has some rather ridiculous feats (such as throwing his shield faster than a speeding rocket in flight and splitting said rocket in half) but is still just peak human.

There's no source anywhere that definitively gives batman superhuman stats from any source. He's skilled, brilliant, and very trained but genetically and physically he's only human. This means by DEFINITION Rogers outranks him physically via the SS serum. It's an advantage but not a huge one- both have beaten stronger opponents on a regular basis. Batman vs. Bane and Killer Croc, Cap versus USagent, Spiderman, etc.

The endurance thing is a bigger edge than you think. being able to perform at peak output indefinitely versus your opponent is a massive, massive advantage. Even the strongest/fastest man alive can only perform at that level for a few minutes. Imagine for a second that Batman is fighting himself. equal training, equal stats, the whole 9.

now imagine that he wins the fight against said clone, only to find he has to fight 9 or 10 more completely rested clones back to back. there's no way he wins that scenario. He's going to be getting weaker and more fatigued the longer he goes on, while the clones (or rogers, in this case) don't. They're as fresh as if they just stepped out of the shower. Fair enough. Bats has gone on the record saying that Cap could potentially beat him in hand to hand, but Bruce Wayne has recieved unnatural ways to avoid fatigue; pain, etc.

Wei Phoenix

Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
Fair enough. Bats has gone on the record saying that Cap could potentially beat him in hand to hand, but Bruce Wayne has recieved unnatural ways to avoid fatigue; pain, etc.
What record?

Dr Will Hatch

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
What record? The 90s crossover between DC and Marvel

psycho gundam

Originally posted by Placidity
History tells us that clones always lose. i mean something along the lines of a parallel universe's batman, thor, or catwoman etc. that is exactly like their counterpart in training, age, weaponry, intellect, and so forth.

Hyperion Prime

Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
The 90s crossover between DC and Marvel

nope the 2003 jla vs avengers

In the 90 crossover Batman did win do to the call in vote

darthgoober

Originally posted by Space M ummy
Some of these responses are LOL.

Thor had about three decisive wins over the surfer BEFORE he turned
into a skyfather. Current Thor curbstomps the surfer and then some.
Keep in mind that outside of say, timetravel, they have the same skillset but thor is the much, much, MUCH better combatant.

one of these individuals can be depowered and/or has severe weaknesses to the skillsets of the other two. No way this is a stalemate.
The second someone bombarded superman with red solar, K-nite, BFR'ed him somewhere fatal or hit him point blank with a godforce blast he would be in serious trouble.

It's not a "stalemate" when one combatant has an edge over the other, even if that edge is only 6/10.

which brings us to this. You can debate all day who knows more martial arts, but that argument is pointless. Both have come across and defeated masters of every fighting style under the sun. Knowing 100 styles versus 101 or 110 isn't going to matter.

What DOES matter is that the SS serum makes it impossible to be stronger, faster, or have superior physical stats to Rogers unless one is by definition superhuman. (which batman isn't.) This gives rogers a slight edge but not a definitive one until we consider that the SS serum also eliminates or severely reduces fatigue toxins in the body, making stamina essentially limitless for rogers, and not for batman.

So now we have to consider that batman is up against an opponent who by definition is going to be physically superior and won't tire out. Even every gadget on his belt isn't going to help him overcome that kind of advantage. (give him everything in the damn batcave and significant prep and it's another story.) In a no prep standard equipment fight it's rogers here more often than not, but not a 10/10.

Spiderman gets curbstomped by venom every time without severe CIS/PIS. The symbiote is immune to anything but Fire and Sonics, neither of which is in spidey's powerset. The symbiote also doesn't set off the spider sense and can't be "blinded" either. Spiderman is unquestionably smarter but in a neutral arena without some conveniently placed help, there's not really a good way for peter to win.
What 3 decisive wins are you talking about?

KingD19

I just want to say, people saying Colossus and Sasquatch tie is ridiculous, Colossus and Tanaraq yes, but regular Sasquatch is beneath Colossus.

Knowsbleed33

Colossus is equal to a Great Beast?

Mindset

Duh~! dur

Wei Phoenix

Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
The 90s crossover between DC and Marvel

Aren't those noncanon?

KingD19

Considering he was holding his own when his max strength was 70 tons, I say yes, for a while at least.

Knowsbleed33

Originally posted by KingD19
Considering he was holding his own when his max strength was 70 tons, I say yes, for a while at least.

No.

KingD19

What do you mean no? Are you telling me he didn't fight Sasquatch, who had Tanaraq's body and strength at the time when he was Class 70, and he didn't flip him over and land several other damaging blows?

Knowsbleed33

No, I'm saying no, Colossus is no where near equal to Tanaraq the Great Beast.

KingD19

So fighting him and holding his own while he(Colossus) was nowhere near his full strength means he isn't equal to him?

I think he might have actually beat him.

Knowsbleed33

I'm talking about Tanaraq, not Sasquatch.

Mungi, where are you when I need you?

KingD19

You're not getting me, Colossus who was Class 70-75 at the time, was fighting Sasquatch, but he was in Tanaraq's body, which is why he could toss that huge plane like it was nothing. He had Tanaraq's body, durability, endurance, and strength, and Colossus was still going to town on him.

Mekrob

Originally posted by KingD19
You're not getting me, Colossus who was Class 70-75 at the time, was fighting Sasquatch, but he was in Tanaraq's body, which is why he could toss that huge plane like it was nothing. He had Tanaraq's body, durability, endurance, and strength, and Colossus was still going to town on him. Didn't Colossus get made to look like a douche?

And Tanaraq's body is when Tanaraq takes full control, or shows up as his real form.
While technically true that Sassy is Tanaraq's body, saying so on the forum makes it look like Colossus did more than judo toss an average level Sassy.

KingD19

Even if he did, he was fighting a Class 100+ opponent(Sasquatch with Tanaraq's body and strength), while he was Class 70, and he held his own, are you saying he didn't?

And when I say he was fighting a Class 100+ oppnent, I mean he was fighting Walter Langowski, who transformed not into Sasquatch, but into Tanaraq with Walter Langowski's mind. WHich is why he could lift a 250 ton DC-10 and chuck it, Current Sasquatch can't do that, he's around 75 tons max.

Mekrob

Originally posted by KingD19
Even if he did, he was fighting a Class 100+ opponent(Sasquatch with Tanaraq's body and strength), while he was Class 70, and he held his own, are you saying he didn't? It was simply Sasquatch. Adding in anything more makes it sound like he did more. If Tanaraq would have taken over, Colossus would have been sliced in half, but he didn't.

Wut. I never said that.

And he didn't really hold his own. He managed to fail hurting Sassy with a punch, and managed to jude toss him... ooo

KingD19

Look it up, and tell me that Sasquatch's original body wasn't that of Tanaraq the Great Beast.

Mekrob

Originally posted by KingD19
Look it up, and tell me that Sasquatch's original body wasn't that of Tanaraq the Great Beast. When Tanaraq takes over, the body becomes tons more powerful. Sassy is basically an drop of that ocean.
it might be an original body, but devoid of many power.

And besides, using that logic, every feat of Sassy is pis, as he could have done so much better.

KingD19

So a guy who could pick up and toss a DC-10 with almost no effort at all is not powerful? That's a registered 250 tons, and he tossed it like it was nothing. He had Tanaraq's body, and full access to his strength. Show me feats when Tanaraq was actually in control that he showed his monstrous strength.

id369

As close as a stalemate I can think off.

* Batman - Black Panther
* Colossus - The Thing
* Magneto - Exodus
* Superman - Majestro
* Silver Surfer - Ion 2 Kyle

KingD19

In my opinion, and a lot of other people's, Colossus would take Thing eventually.

Mekrob

Originally posted by KingD19
So a guy who could pick up and toss a DC-10 with almost no effort at all is not powerful? That's a registered 250 tons, and he tossed it like it was nothing. He had Tanaraq's body, and full access to his strength. Show me feats when Tanaraq was actually in control that he showed his monstrous strength. wut the **** are you talking about?

If he doesn't have feats (indicated by you asking the question), then what's the point of mentioning it?

KingD19

I never said he didn't have feats, I said show me because I hadn't seen any, I can't read comics as much as I'd like because there are no real comic book stores where I live, so I don't know if Tanaraq had feats or not. Wasn't he in the Exiles series? Maybe he had some feats during that run.

Mekrob

Originally posted by KingD19
I never said he didn't have feats, I said show me because I hadn't seen any, I can't read comics as much as I'd like, so I don't know if Tanaraq had feats or not. Wasn't he in the Exiles series? Maybe he had some feats during that run. Well, you're implying they are the same strength... which means that you mentioning Tanaraq is irrelevant when you can simply say the more known version.

He didn't have feats relevant to 616.

And I'm not looking for feats, since that'd mean I'd have to read that bastard's thread.

KingD19

What I'm saying is, since Langowski had Tanaraq's body, we can only assume that he had all of that bodies strength, to assume otherwise is just not common sense in my opinion. For example, if I put my brain in your body, and you could bench 550lbs, then if I benched 550lbs, I could do it because I was in your body. There's no sense in something like, just because he had his body, doesn't mean he had full access to his strength. I could understand other powers, since you can't use things like that without knowing about them, but with strength that's a non factor.

I find it stupid that he had no feats, yet the other Great Beasts did.

And whose a bastard?

Mekrob

Originally posted by KingD19
What I'm saying is, since Langowski had Tanaraq's body, we can only assume that he had all of that bodies strength, to assume otherwise is just not common sense in my opinion. For example, if I put my brain in your body, and you could bench 550lbs, then if I benched 550lbs, I could do it because I was in your body. There's no sense in something like, just because he had his body, doesn't mean he had full access to his strength. I could understand other powers, since you can't use things like that without knowing about them, but with strength that's a non factor.

I find it stupid that he had no feats, yet the other Great Beasts did.

And whose a bastard? Do I have Skyfather level powers, the ability to grow, and other stuff?
Also, all that means is that you can simply say Sasquatch... saying Tanaraq assumes that it is something more than it is.
You wish I could only bench 550 pounds.

He does, he has a few of them... go read the respect thread.

Mungi obviously.

KingD19

Okay, let me put it like this, in terms of strength, endurance, and durability. Original Sasquatch is considered Tanaraq, his other powers, like I said, don't matter. In terms of physical power, he was indeed Tanaraq.

And you wish I wished that you could only bench 550.

Can you give me the link, I really don't feel like looking for it.

No idea who Mungi is.

Mekrob

Originally posted by KingD19
Okay, let me put it like this, in terms of strength, endurance, and durability. Original Sasquatch is considered Tanaraq, his other powers, like I said, don't matter. In terms of physical power, he was indeed Tanaraq.

And you wish I wished that you could only bench 550.

Can you give me the link, I really don't feel like looking for it.

No idea who Mungi is. But as you believe, Tanaraq has no feats. So why the hell would we say Tanaraq when we can say Sassy?

k

Go to the Repect thread. Click on Marvel thread directory. Click on Great Beasts respect thread (close tab of Marvel Directory).

A bastard

KingD19

No, you misunderstood me dude, I never said Tanaraq had no feats, I said I'd never seen them, and from what I've told you, which is I don't get to read comics as often as I want, actually far less often than I want. I don't know everything. And I'm calling him Tanaraq because he has his body, his strength, endurance, and durability, if not his other powers.

Okay

Okay

Okay

Mekrob

Originally posted by KingD19
No, you misunderstood me dude, I never said Tanaraq had no feats, I said I'd never seen them, and from what I've told you, which is I don't get to read comics as often as I want, actually far less often than I want. I don't know everything. And I'm calling him Tanaraq because he has his body, his strength, endurance, and durability, if not his other powers.

Okay

Okay

Okay You don't know any feats of Tanaraq (if you don't know any feats, then he has no feats to you); it's the exact same thing. It's like saying that Thor KO'ed the Gamma God of Green when he dropped Hulk. He didn't of course, because he dropped Hulk.

No

Maybe

Yes