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http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a378/Xanatos513/left4dead-mar1st.jpg VS. http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a378/Xanatos513/resident-evil-5-20070726113937477_6.jpg

If you don't know what these two factions are, Take a minute to study up

Scenario
Two metropoli within 50 miles of each other have been infected with the "Dead" virus and Las Plagas. Both cities contain a population of 50,000 people, so that's 50,000 Infected and 50,000 Majini (not counting non-humans infected with Las Plagas). Both groups catch scent of each other, and begin to make their way towards the opposite city.


Battlefield
The lands between the metropoli vary: there are marshlands, forests, and rural communities scattered between. All three field types, as well as the cities themselves, are viable combat zones. The rural communites still house uninfected, with estimated populations varying between one hundred and one thousand. This means anywhere between 50-500 reinforcements each for either side, and more for the Majini since Las Plagas has been known to affect non-humans.

Combatants
Naturally, the main fighting force for both sides will be the Horde and the Majini, respectively. The Las Plagas parasites will be allowed to take any of their matured states, while the Infected have their Special classes.*

Weapons
The Majini will be able to wield any weapons they can find lying around. The Horde, as always, are the weapons themselves.

*Regarding the number of Special Infected and Matured Las Plagas
Naturally, if all the Las Plagas were allowed to mature, it would make things much more difficult for the Horde; likewise if Special Infected outnumbered the Majini. To counter this, I have set up a basic counter for each side.

Majini will transform on a random basis of 1 matured Las Plagas for every 100 Majini.

For every Horde of 100, 2 Specials will escort.

By doing the math, this turns out a maximum of 500 Matured Las Plagas, and a maximum of 250 Special Infected for the entire Horde. I will also add a minimum of 10 Tanks and 10 Witches for the Infected, as a counter weight for the extra bulk in numbers the Majini will get from non-human infected.

Let the debate begin.

With only my slight knowledge of the Majini and the fact they have some over whelming odds with some of the animals that get infected with the parasite, I think they might eventually win and hold out against the infected.

Hmm. Tough decision. I think the Majini may eventually win, seeing as how they can take quite a beating, and they can use weapons.

Originally posted by King-Fingolfin
Hmm. Tough decision. I think the Majini may eventually win, seeing as how they can take quite a beating, and they can use weapons.

That's true, but you have to keep in mind that a majority of the Majinis' weapons will be close range, and with the speed of the Horde and their propensity to swarm, they could very well overrun Majini before they're able to respond accordingly.

I've only played a brief demo of RE5, and from what I say, the Majini are relatively slow when it comes to wielding their weapons. Add this against Special Infected like the Smoker, and most standard Majini won't last long, I think.

Hmmmm.

Do the Majini get The Chainsaw Majini and the Hammer/Axe Majini?

Well, I didn't really specify a difference, so I guess it's okay.

Does a Boomer call in more infected outside of the 50k?

Originally posted by King-Fingolfin
Hmm. Tough decision. I think the Majini may eventually win, seeing as how they can take quite a beating, and they can use weapons.
The Tanks on the other hand are able to rip up the ground and KITE and camp with concrete and chuck it at such a powerful force at the Majin. They have so much muscle and life behind them as well.

The Hunters can pin down larger numbers at a time and rip them to shreds along with the Majin being sniped and pulled away out of the battle, Even up to buildings height, from the Smokers.

Smokers will be a huge asset and be a key to victory in this battle, since it leaves the victim nullified and unable to react. The Boomers can also throw up bile on the more threatening weapon holding Majini and direct the horde to focus and shred to pieces.

In fact the infected have a more military based tactics and a way of communicating better with each other I would say in order to take over the more or less swarming unorganized Majini.

Witches would be able to rape so MANY so fast, before going down, 1 witch could probably take down almost nearly...jeeze I don't even know, some one want to give me a fair estimate? maybe 200-300. They're tough, and fast and would do so much damage to a single Majini before actually eating the dust.

I may have to rethink my original notion. The Infected have a much more military based power to them, and work well together to pick off important and more threatening majini then work they're way down and take out the smaller threats.

the horde at the front of the line, Boomers behind being able to direct and shoot bile where needed. Hiding behind buildings and getting around fast that way, ducking and hiding in the fields. Smokers would stay on high grounds and far away from the main fights in order to pick off Majini, as well as a hunter can pair up with each smoker and make easy work of things. The Infected seem to have more strength in general. Not to mention Tanks can be the back ranks and hurl concrete, or the ground and just rape and trash so much.
Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Does a Boomer call in more infected outside of the 50k?
I asked Xanatos that, he said no.

*facepalm* I was just talking about factors like these before I posted, but I didn't think it was necessary. Shows how much I know.

No, Boomers do not call in extra infected. Instead, Boomer bile will concentrate a Horde swarm on a group of targets. I can see this as being useful against some of the stronger Majini like Fing mentioned, as the bile would not only blind them, but cause them to be swarmed.

There's also still the Tanks and Witches scattered about.

Zombies are programmed not to fight zombies! They team up and eat everyone. /troll.

Hammer Majini are incredibly deadly, capable of tearing apart buildings with single swings of their axe/hammer, not to mention their incredible endurance.

Chainsaw Majini, well, once they get put down once, they come back up again, swinging their chainsaws around non-stop, and if Evil Dead has taught us anything, chainsaws are a nifty zombie killler.

But, I think Tanks and Witchs could change the match around.

Originally posted by Voyeur


I asked Xanatos that, he said no.

No you didn't. You only made one post here and it doesn't mention my question.

We're in chat together, Wei.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
No you didn't. You only made one post here and it doesn't mention my question. we talk to each other along with some others on Xat....there are other means of communication then just the forums and posts mate.

Majini win.

Originally posted by GenomeFrozener
Majini win.

This is opinion. Please elaborate on your claim, or stop posting items that are useless to the debate. Thank you.

Originally posted by Voyeur
The Tanks on the other hand are able to rip up the ground and KITE and camp with concrete and chuck it at such a powerful force at the Majin. They have so much muscle and life behind them as well.

I'll see your Tank and raise you a bearded Troll.



I'll see your Hunter and raise you an Adjule.



I'll see your Smoker and raise you a Licker.



I'd say the Majini have more military based tactics considering they use firearms, among other things.



What? Why? I'd love to see a Witch even step to a Chainsaw Majini or even a Hyena Adjule.



They're almost mindless. The Majini are exceedingly intelligent compared to the Infected. Also, the Majini are far more durable.



A tank can hurl concrete? He can't handle four humans with guns. Imagine soldier Majini with guns, crossbows, molotovs, etc. Get real.

If they have tanks then Tanks solo. The chainsaw and axe zombies are too slow to hit a tank who is durable enough to take a hit even if they got lucky. Witches do nothing but kill one zombie.

I have to give it to the Infected. I've been raped many a time on expert on L4D, but RE5 isn't really that big of a challenge for me.

Originally posted by Genesis


A tank can hurl concrete? He can't handle four humans with guns. Imagine soldier Majini with guns, crossbows, molotovs, etc. Get real.

Tanks are incredibly resistant to guns and arrows will do nothing but bounce right off of him. The battlefield suggests that there are no military bases or anything lying around. Throw a molotov on a tank and it runs faster while killing everything.

i give it to the The Majini because they are actually part of a cult (kind of) not mindless beings of killing so they are more organized and also when you shooth their heads off they are still alive

Originally posted by Genesis
I'll see your Tank and raise you a bearded Troll.

I'll see your Smoker and raise you a Licker.

Maybe I didn't make myself clear. This battle is restricted to Majini, Matured Las Plagas, and non-human Las Plagas infected (meaning adjule).

I don't even know what a bearded Troll is, and Lickers were not being produced in the Majini metropolis, so they are not a part of this fight.

Originally posted by Genesis
I'll see your Hunter and raise you an Adjule.

Personally, I don't see how an Adjule could possibly compare to a Hunter, but I haven't seen any footage of Adjules attacking, so *shrugs*...

Originally posted by Genesis
I'd say the Majini have more military based tactics considering they use firearms, among other things.

Mental capacity to wield firearms =/= military level strategizing.

Originally posted by Genesis
What? Why? I'd love to see a Witch even step to a Chainsaw Majini or even a Hyena Adjule.

...Witches are more powerful than Tanks. Tanks are stupidly strong.


Originally posted by Genesis
They're almost mindless. The Majini are exceedingly intelligent compared to the Infected. Also, the Majini are far more durable.

Sort of. The Horde are generally brainless, with only the instinct to spread the Infection. The Special Infected, however, are very intelligent, particularly in their preferred style of dealing with opponents.

Also, last I checked, Majini went down by bullets the same as Horde, so they can't be that durable.

Originally posted by Genesis
A tank can hurl concrete? He can't handle four humans with guns. Imagine soldier Majini with guns, crossbows, molotovs, etc.

Wrong. A Tank can easily handle four humans with guns, unless the humans know how to bait it well. Majini as a whole are not fast or smart enough to bait a Tank.

Soldier Majini are non-existent here, because the metropolis wasn't a military installation. Axes and chainsaws, even though the types from RE are a little stupid, are relatively easy to find in a big city, which is why Axe and Chainsaw Majini are allowed.

Some might get their hands on firearms, but nowhere near the level of firepower they could get from a military base. Out of the weapons you've listed, molotovs are probably the greatest threat to a Tank, and even then it also makes the Tank move faster.

Originally posted by Genesis
Get real.

This is unnecessary. It does nothing to add to the debate as a whole. Try not to do it again, please.

None of them have anything on a tank. Tanks are far more durable and wreak havoc all over the place. It takes a lot of bullets to kill a tank.

Originally posted by XanatosForever

...Witches are more powerful than Tanks. Tanks are stupidly strong.



I have to disagree on this. Tanks are more useful and stronger. A witch has to sit there crying until someone bothers her. A Tank just destroys everything in its path. A Witch also has one target so the Witches here can only kill 10 zombies. Tank is way more durable as well.

Originally posted by niduin
i give it to the The Majini because they are actually part of a cult (kind of) not mindless beings of killing so they are more organized and also when you shooth their heads off they are still alive

They're usually organized by the Agitator, which is indeed part of this battle, but other than that, I don't consider them all that more organized.

As for shooting their heads and living, if you've read the first post, you should know that only a set number of Majini will have their Las Plagas matured. Depending on the types, it may or may not give them an advantage.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
I have to disagree on this. Tanks are more useful and stronger. A witch has to sit there crying until someone bothers her. A Tank just destroys everything in its path. A Witch also has one target so the Witches here can only kill 10 zombies. Tank is way more durable as well.

You've brought up the matter of versatility, not the matter of power. Yes, Tanks are much more useful than Witches as a whole, but Witches are stronger than Tanks, and proven by canon. A Tank can not one-hit incapacitate/kill a survivor when said survivor is at full health, or even in the green. A Witch can.

Originally posted by XanatosForever
As for shooting their heads and living, if you've read the first post, you should know that only a set number of Majini will have their Las Plagas matured. im sorry but that is contradictory, the parasite is said to mature within seconds.

Originally posted by XanatosForever
You've brought up the matter of versatility, not the matter of power. Yes, Tanks are much more useful than Witches as a whole, but Witches are stronger than Tanks, and proven by canon. A Tank can not one-hit incapacitate/kill a survivor when said survivor is at full health, or even in the green. A Witch can.

In game on expert it can. Out of game via cutscene and whatnot we haven't seen a survivor get hit by a Tank for obvious reasons nor a Witch. Witches can't break walls or knock cars around.

Originally posted by niduin
im sorry but that is contradictory, the parasite is said to mature within seconds.

It is not contradictory at all, good sir. I have not limited the speed with which a Matured Las Plagas will manifest, I have only limited the number of Majini who will have their parasites mature. It is canon that not every Majini who is shot will transform.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
In game on expert it can. Out of game via cutscene and whatnot we haven't seen a survivor get hit by a Tank for obvious reasons nor a Witch. Witches can't break walls or knock cars around.

This is true. In fact, I think I will concede, because now that I think about it, a majority of the Witch's killing power may actually come from her claws, which is something the Tank lacks.

Originally posted by XanatosForever
This is true. In fact, I think I will concede, because now that I think about it, a majority of the Witch's killing power may actually come from her claws, which is something the Tank lacks.

Yeah I think they made her a one hit incap because she wouldn't be much of a threat if you were able to keep running while she was hitting you. It would be too easy to handle her.

If she had more health it might be. In any case, it's still easy to handle her for veteran players by now. They all know how to Cr0wn her. XD

Witches could be more deadly then Tanks, but she's just an emo freak who will only attack 1 person. If the witch went around attacking all the other survivors she could be alot more deadly then a Tank, she's much faster, and incaps survivors in 1 hit.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Witches could be more deadly then Tanks, but she's just an emo freak who will only attack 1 person. If the witch went around attacking all the other survivors she could be alot more deadly then a Tank, she's much faster, and incaps survivors in 1 hit.

Very true. She is emo because she can't change her tampon without scratching herself and giving her a hystarectomy or however you spell it.

Originally posted by XanatosForever
If she had more health it might be. In any case, it's still easy to handle her for veteran players by now. They all know how to Cr0wn her. XD

Yeah we all own the witch now. If only a Tank was able to do that.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Witches could be more deadly then Tanks, but she's just an emo freak who will only attack 1 person. If the witch went around attacking all the other survivors she could be alot more deadly then a Tank, she's much faster, and incaps survivors in 1 hit.

True, but lethality =/= power.

This thread is starting to get derailed. I ask that any further posts resume the debate.

As I said. There doesn't seem to be anything in the Majini's arsenal to stop a tank. Any guns they get, they'll die within one hit from a tank. Tanks are faster and stronger.

On a quick side note I've been meaning to ask you the origin of your name. Gargoyles?

I believe it's a name from star wars.

But really, its almost hopeless to fight witches/tanks when boomers have impaired your vision, theyll get ripped apart before they even know what hit them

Las Plagas? Do you mean Type 2 Plagas? Also, Majini *ALL* have their Type 2 Plagas matured within seconds.

From the game itself:

"Type 2 Plagas differs from its predecessor in that
it is administered in its mature state, and from
that point the host can almost immediately be
controlled. "



Ndesu. It's a giant troll entity in the RE5 game. I'd consider it a non-human Type 2 Plagas specimen. Therefore, according to your rules, it can enter the fight.

Don't even try saying the Tank would chuck concrete at it. The Ndesu uses giant steel pipes in the game. The concrete would bounce off of it's body. Hell, bullets bounce off of it's body. Literally.




I've played and beaten the game. They're agile, they pounce, they're strong and they turn into something quite fierce. Hyenas and dogs alike.




I'm not sure what "=/=" means. Could you explain?




How so? A Tank is wholesomely larger and stronger than a witch. A tank can smack a car into the air and tear concrete out of the ground. A witch can run and scratch.





The generic Majini have about as much intelligence as the special infected. That means the evolved Majini and the more advanced specimens exceed the intelligence of the lesser forms. This means the special infected could have difficulty with regular Majini.



It takes several bullets. Sometimes, the Majini won't even fall at first or will transform. Save two kinds of special infected, most of the infected are dropped with few gun shots. In particular, the regular infected.





No. Tanks have difficulties and succumb to the survivors. That's four. How many Majini did you see wielding guns in RE5? Can you count? Did you see how some were armored? Some had the capacity to have shields? The gatling gun Majini?

Wait, the Majini aren't fast? They can run, jump, climb and some can even jump significant distances. Like, from the ground to the roof of a building.



They're non-existent in your scenario because the infected would lose with them involved. What difference is there? The Majini cut down several infected and begin to throw these axes, bottles, machetes, shovels, pipe wrenches, etc. The crossbow Majini are in the metropolis. What about the metropolis Majini that throw dynamite? Molotovs?



You fail at physics. Fire doesn't make something faster. It's probably the other way around. I'd say the greatest threat to a tank would be getting axed, bowed and molotov'd by crazed Majini.




Actually, it does. You need to or you really shouldn't reply. I know L4D is fun but the Majini have all of the capabilities of the infected and then some.

Actually. On Expert, ONE mistake and the BOTS can take your entire team down in just a second.

Boomer blinds the team, a Smoker seperates a team mate, Hunter pounces another, and the tank moves in for the slaughter.

Oh, I had no idea we were using game mechanics. In that case, the Majini win. On the Professional difficulty, the Majini hit you once and you're in "Dying" mode. This means that you have either ten seconds for your partner to heal you or another hit from a Majini equals pwnage. You don't get several chances like on L4D.

The Majini.

Lesser forms of Majini are quite smarter than the Infected, able to sometimes duck/sidestep through gunfire and wield weapons with precision like chainsaws, chainguns, and even rocket launchers.
The stronger forms are deadlier. If you hit them with a headshot, often mature Las Plagas pop out of their heads and swing at you, taking huge chunks out of your health.

And like what Genesis said, in Pro mode, at the start of the game it only takes 2 hits from the weakest Majini to kill you.

Originally posted by Genesis

Don't even try saying the Tank would chuck concrete at it. The Ndesu uses giant steel pipes in the game. The concrete would bounce off of it's body. Hell, bullets bounce off of it's body. Literally.

He runs up and slaps him or slaps a huge object into him.



Does not equal.




He has already conceded this point.



Boomers are fat ninjas, Hunters are extremely agile and fast. Smokers are sneaky and Tanks own.





The only bullets that one shot Infected are shotguns up close and high caliber hunting rifle bullets that shoot through almost anything. ARs uzis and pistols can't one shot any infected outside of a boomer or head shot.







No, personal experience with a tank means nothing here. If you watch the intro video you'll see that they kept running from the Tank. They didn't even kill it, they only escaped to the point where he couldn't get them. Doesn't matter how many of them wield guns or gatling guns. There are no shields nor gatling guns in this battlefield. Xanatos did a good job being as descriptive as possible.



So can a hunter.





More like he is trying to keep it balanced, axes, machetes, shovels, wrenches and crossbows will bounce right off of the Tank.




Its a part of the game's physics, just like shooting a Majin's head off doesn't always kill it. I'm so sure if I were to light your ass on fire then you'd run as fast as possible. Tanks on fire run faster, that is fact. Axes and bows will bounce right off of him seeing as bullets barely pierce his skin.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
The Majini.

Lesser forms of Majini are quite smarter than the Infected, able to sometimes duck/sidestep through gunfire and wield weapons with precision like chainsaws, chainguns, and even rocket launchers.
The stronger forms are deadlier. If you hit them with a headshot, often mature Las Plagas pop out of their heads and swing at you, taking huge chunks out of your health.

And like what Genesis said, in Pro mode, at the start of the game it only takes 2 hits from the weakest Majini to kill you.

There are no chainguns or rocket launchers here so that point is moot. Anyway a Tank has proven to be durable to gatling gun bullets as well.

watch?v=JJ2vRl3V5O0

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
JJ2vRl3V5O0

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
watch?v=JJ2vRl3V5O0
Stronger versions of Majini, the Ndesus, are twice or thrice as huge as Tanks.
I don't think that punch/slap will even inflict any damage at all to a Ndesu.

Xanatos didn't clarify that either of these are at the "hard" level or "pro" setting and he simply wouldn't because that is a GAME MECHANIC. It is null and void to the discussion.

I don't see where the Majini have more military and tactical thought just because they are shown to be able to use and carry weapons. If I give some kids guns, they just go 'pew pew', they don't have plans and ambushes.

The Infected on the other hand have shown to be able to set up ambush points and smokers especially. They're able to grab you at your weakest hour and just strike while you split away from the group. That can be the same fate for a Majini with a threatening weapon, he can be dragged away in the field or up a skyscraper.

The infected are obviously meant to work together and cooperate as a team. And zombies have an innate ability to know that. hence, bile from boomers, and hunters teaming up with smokers. Tanks and Witches do not need true support but with those numbers, it's obvious they'd get it.

And, just because in game play guns don't fall out of your hand, doesn't mean in a real match if some one chucked giant concrete at you and hit your weapon, chances are it would drop. So the Tank can act as archers in times of war.

and the witch would be able to shred and attack at speeds above the majini, pinning and rapping a target she locked on to very fast. And then quickly moving to the next. It wouldn't take that long to kill a Majini for her. let alone she's free to go ballistic and attack any I think after focusing on one.

The Infected are fast. Tanks are full of pure muscle and speed. The normal horde are quick and react and RUN, the witch is a blitz of speed. Hunters can leap and react and are agile, with great reflexes. Smokers get around probably a little faster then the Majini's speeds but he can kite and snipe, so it's not a huge need. Even boomers with all their gurth and weight are able to get around the city through climbing and such.

Their abilities are just more impressive and are meant to cooperate with each others.

The Majini are just symbiotes with guns going pew pew. They don't actually have abilities to team up and help each other.

Originally posted by Genesis
Las Plagas? Do you mean Type 2 Plagas? Also, Majini *ALL* have their Type 2 Plagas matured within seconds.

From the game itself:

"Type 2 Plagas differs from its predecessor in that
it is administered in its mature state, and from
that point the host can almost immediately be
controlled. "

Thanks for the quote, but answer me this: does every single Majini you shoot have their parasite mature, or do some of them just die? From what little experience I had with the game, I didn't see tentacles bursting out of heads when I shot Majini, but that may have been because it was a demo. Regardless, I've already stated in the rule set that the number of Matured Las Plagas has been limited for the sake of balance.


Originally posted by Genesis
Ndesu. It's a giant troll entity in the RE5 game. I'd consider it a non-human Type 2 Plagas specimen. Therefore, according to your rules, it can enter the fight.

This fight is supposed to be between two generic entities: the Infected and the Majini. Therefore, despite it being a Type 2 Plagas specimen, it is not allowed. Show me something to convince me that Ndesu can be considered Majini, and I'll rescend my verdict.

Originally posted by Genesis
Don't even try saying the Tank would chuck concrete at it. The Ndesu uses giant steel pipes in the game. The concrete would bounce off of it's body. Hell, bullets bounce off of it's body. Literally.

See above.



Originally posted by Genesis
I've played and beaten the game. They're agile, they pounce, they're strong and they turn into something quite fierce. Hyenas and dogs alike.

Do they hunt in packs or are they single fighters? Except for the transformation, you could easily translate that description to a Hunter, so yes, I see your reasoning for comparing them. That doesn't mean I think an Adjule can take on a Hunter.

Oh, and the whole transformation bit? Still under the Matured Plagas limit, so you don't think that you can have a swarm of transformed Adjule running amok. *sighs* Maybe I should've specified more...

Originally posted by Genesis
I'm not sure what "=/=" means. Could you explain?

Gladly, in case you haven't heard it from someone else. It basically translates to "does not equal." So, in the context of the last message, the mental capacity to wield a firearm does not equal the ability of military level strategy.



Originally posted by Genesis
How so? A Tank is wholesomely larger and stronger than a witch. A tank can smack a car into the air and tear concrete out of the ground. A witch can run and scratch.

This is a moot point, as I've already conceded that the Witch is not stronger than a tank, just deadlier.

Originally posted by Genesis
The generic Majini have about as much intelligence as the special infected. That means the evolved Majini and the more advanced specimens exceed the intelligence of the lesser forms. This means the special infected could have difficulty with regular Majini.

I'm willing to admit that I don't really know about the intelligence of Majini, since I only have the experience from a demo I played briefly.

Originally posted by Genesis
It takes several bullets. Sometimes, the Majini won't even fall at first or will transform. Save two kinds of special infected, most of the infected are dropped with few gun shots. In particular, the regular infected.

It takes just as many rounds for Infected to drop, unless they get a face full of buckshot or sniped by a hunting rifle. Do the Majini feel pain? Considering that getting shot makes them stagger, I'm willing to say they do. The Infected don't feel pain, so even while they're getting shot, they're still coming at you, and they come fast. The weakest of the Special Infected, the Boomer, can still take at least one pistol shot before going down, and when it does it goes with a bang.


Originally posted by Genesis
No. Tanks have difficulties and succumb to the survivors. That's four. How many Majini did you see wielding guns in RE5? Can you count? Did you see how some were armored? Some had the capacity to have shields? The gatling gun Majini?

You're still basing a lot of this off of the fact that the Majini were near a military installation, where they had access to that kind of equipment. That's not the case in this fight. Base and GG Majini are not a part of this fight. You shouldn't let that worry you, though. You still have quite a few options.

Originally posted by Genesis
Wait, the Majini aren't fast? They can run, jump, climb and some can even jump significant distances. Like, from the ground to the roof of a building.

If you wouldn't mind, could you show me a video of them doing so? I've only seen trailers and played the demo briefly, and from those, I've seen them climb, walk menacingly, and take swings at the PC. So I don't consider them fast.

Originally posted by Genesis
They're non-existent in your scenario because the infected would lose with them involved.

You might be right. Certainly the Infected are at a disadvantage, since they have to get into melee range to do much anything (except the Special Infected). I am trying to make a balanced battle, after all. In any case, there was no need to point it out. In fact, it's somewhat rude, as it sounds like your accusing me of trying to tilt it in favor of the Infected, which I'm not.

Originally posted by Genesis
What difference is there? The Majini cut down several infected and begin to throw these axes, bottles, machetes, shovels, pipe wrenches, etc. The crossbow Majini are in the metropolis. What about the metropolis Majini that throw dynamite? Molotovs?

Yes, good idea, throw away the weapons that are allowing you to survive. I can understand a few crossbow Majini being around after finding crossbows in sports hunting shops and the like, just like some Majini will have pistols, maybe the occasional rifle.

Dynamite? Uhh, maybe, but that's a big maybe. I don't think dynamite is usually just lying around. Again, the only real obstacle I see so far is the molotovs.

Originally posted by Genesis
You fail at physics.

You're quite the rude one, aren't you?

Originally posted by Genesis
Fire doesn't make something faster. It's probably the other way around. I'd say the greatest threat to a tank would be getting axed, bowed and molotov'd by crazed Majini.

Fair enough, I should have worded myself better. The fire doesn't make the Tank move faster, the Tank just moves faster when it's on fire. Does that sound better? Bows and molotovs I can understand, but I don't really think thrown axes could hurt the Tank. Maybe an Axe Majini could do some damage.


Originally posted by Genesis
Actually, it does.

No. Telling someone to "get real" is in no way constructive criticism, or a rebuttal to any current remarks. It's just bashing.

Originally posted by Genesis
You need to or you really shouldn't reply.

As is this. In your reply, I sincerely hope that you be more civil.

Originally posted by Genesis
I know L4D is fun but the Majini have all of the capabilities of the infected and then some.

I'm sure RE5 is a blast as well, but popularity does not equal victory in this particular debate.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
The Majini.

Lesser forms of Majini are quite smarter than the Infected, able to sometimes duck/sidestep through gunfire and wield weapons with precision like chainsaws, chainguns, and even rocket launchers.
The stronger forms are deadlier. If you hit them with a headshot, often mature Las Plagas pop out of their heads and swing at you, taking huge chunks out of your health.

And like what Genesis said, in Pro mode, at the start of the game it only takes 2 hits from the weakest Majini to kill you.

Originally posted by Genesis
Oh, I had no idea we were using game mechanics. In that case, the Majini win. On the Professional difficulty, the Majini hit you once and you're in "Dying" mode. This means that you have either ten seconds for your partner to heal you or another hit from a Majini equals pwnage. You don't get several chances like on L4D.

I'm trying not to rely on game mechanics, considering they unrealistically limit actions.

destroyer, chainguns and rocket launchers are not likely to be found in a civilan city, though I'm sure other firearms would be. Also, if you'd read the first post, you would know that there is a limited amount of Matured parasites that will manifest.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
None of them have anything on a tank. Tanks are far more durable and wreak havoc all over the place. It takes a lot of bullets to kill a tank.


Ndesu would lift a Tank over it's head and rip it in half =|


But anyways, Ndesu isn't in this match, because I do believe that they needed to be created in labs and stuff, not just mutate from some normal human.

I would say that the Majini COULD win if they get their hands on firearms.

The Majini, although they do feel pain, manage to shrug off gunshot wounds.

And I would say The Infected are slightly faster then the Majini

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
Stronger versions of Majini, the Ndesus, are twice or thrice as huge as Tanks.
I don't think that punch/slap will even inflict any damage at all to a Ndesu.

Can't believe I missed this post, but I believe I've already explained it earlier. Thus far, Ndesu is considered a Type 2 Plagas specimen, but not inherently Majini. If you can provide me with some form of evidence to the contrary, I will revise my decision.

Originally posted by King-Fingolfin
The Majini, although they do feel pain, manage to shrug off gunshot wounds.

This is the only part I have any real need to comment. Unless gameplay has changed significantly from the demo, Majini most certainly do not simply shrug off bullet wounds. They realistically stagger, which is at least one second of time lost in the recognition of pain. The Horde don't feel pain at all, so they can get hit by a bullet in the shoulder or leg, and still keep going.

Normal people would be down on the ground screaming in pain if shot. The Majini, although do grimace in pain, manage to keep fighting.

Originally posted by King-Fingolfin
Normal people would be down on the ground screaming in pain if shot. The Majini, although do grimace in pain, manage to keep fighting.

Bullshit! I dare you to shoot me right now and watch me take it with ease.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Bullshit! I dare you to shoot me right now and watch me take it with ease.

Entertaining though that might be, this particular comment does nothing to expand the debate. I can appreciate humor, I just ask that you try not to spam.

Fing, yes, most average citizens would indeed drop from a single bullet wound, and the fact the Majini only stagger does prove they're a cut above regular people, but the fact they stagger is enough to put them at a disadvantage. One second is all it would take for a Smoker to ensnare a Majini distracted by pain.

No. The Ndesu would just stomp him. The tank's slap would do nothing. The Ndesu is much larger and stronger.




Thank you very much. I've seen that around lately and I'm like "WTF?"





You seem biased. Instead of gathered explanations, you just go on about how good the infected are compared the Majini. What makes them better? The Majini are fast. They're sneaky (We seem them hiding in boxes and doors) and they have the power that the infected do as well. They can smash through concrete (As seen in the Public Assembly level) they can push down barriers you put up (Like huge shelves.) and they can bust up doors. They're like the infected EXCEPT for one detail; The Majini are far superior when it comes to intelligence.





Actually, a pistol can take down a regular infected in just a few shots.






Canon of the game dictates and assumes the main players make it through each film without losses. This overrides gameplay mechanics. This would mean they've survived Tanks and have killed them. For example, there wouldn't be a "Dead Air" campaign if not for that cutscene in "Death Toll" and the survivors making it to the end, right? If the Tanks won (Canonically) no more survivors.





Yes, but most Majini are capable of this. The Hunter is a special infected.



That's a lie. In the game, bullets do not bounce off of the tank. Why would anything else? What evidence do you have they will bounce off of him? Blood spurts from him when the bullets make contact. I'm pretty sure this means that bullets enter him.



What the? You can't use game mechanics during a versus match-up.

Originally posted by XanatosForever


destroyer, chainguns and rocket launchers are not likely to be found in a civilan city, though I'm sure other firearms would be. Also, if you'd read the first post, you would know that there is a limited amount of Matured parasites that will manifest.

And? It would only take one well-placed Cephalo maturation to wipe out dozens upon dozens of infected.




They all have their parasites mature or they don't function as undead. Period. The Type 2 Plagas is already at a matured state when it enters it's host. Some do evolve into OTHER TYPES of Plagas forms but they're all matured.




The Type 2 Plagas is already matured. I said this minutes ago. You might as well limit the Majini entirely because every single one already has a matured virus type in them.



How can it not be considered Majini? It is a host to the Type 2 Plagas. It's a descendant from El Gigante, which is a Las Plagas specimen. Why is it not allowed? Because the infected might lose? You're showing more bias here. It's upsetting.

You're not making it between two generic entities. You're basically saying that the generic Majini (And you've limited their transformation abilities) get to fight the infected and their boss infected. Why shouldn't the Majini get their bosses? I know why. The infected would lose. Quickly.







It's not like the Majini where they sometimes transform. The dogs, after seconds, will transform. Always. Same with the hyenas. Why? The type 2 Plagas is ALREADY matured, as I've said a thousand times.



I understand. Thank you for that.



They can speak. They can use weapons. They're organized. They use tactics. They can drive vehicles. For crying out loud, they're much more intelligence than the infected. That's damn important.




Staggering doesn't prove pain. Wow. The Majini can get up from shotgun blasts, without showing pain. Staggering back from the blast of a gun doesn't prove pain. Sorry. You'll have to do better. A pistol shot can take down an infected in one shot sometimes. A single pistol shot will never take down a Majini unless it is in the head. Sometimes, that doesn't even work or the Majini just transforms.

Pardon? They were never near a military installation. Where are you getting your information from? There's a town, a village, mines, caves, an oil refinery, marshlands, a research facility, a boat, an airplane and a volcano.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFXjmoddjIU

First one you encounter runs at you. Throughout the rest of the game, they'll run, climb and jump until they're at you.





Well, the infected get everyone they've got in this scenario and the Majini don't. Is it not tilted? How can you say that you're not tilting it?

If the Majini had the crocodiles, the soldier Majini, the tribal Majini, Uroboros (Which is in the metropolis), Cephalos, U-8's, etc .... The infected would be damned. I understand you're trying to make a balanced battle but the Majini are deadly, even with the lower tier ones. The infected don't evolve as quickly as they do nor to the capability that they do in terms of viral infection speed. The Majini can use their tentacles at will (As seen in-game when they grab you) and even transform into something much deadlier (Sometimes) when killed.





They throw dynamite, though. They obviously pick up what they see. Even so, a few Majini with guns is a significant threat. They'd take out a considerate amount of infected just with those firearms. Then, if they run out of bullets, why not just take on them with another weapon or with their physical body?





No, I'm not. If his example of physics is wrong, does he succeed?





Why couldn't a thrown axe hurt the tank? There's no evidence to suggest his skin is made of steel. His tissue and muscle can still be penetrated.




You can't tell me the intention of what I said. You can't. He needs to get real or he should not argue against me. His debating pattern is shoddy.



I am. I'm stating a fact. He shouldn't. His bias is incredible.




Who said it did?

Originally posted by Genesis

I am. I'm stating a fact. He shouldn't. His bias is incredible.

You really want to talk about that?

I ****ing hate zombies. I think they're stupid and make no sense, and you can ask any of my mates how them and I will go into debates about how retarded the un-dead are and the fact people feed their hype and love them, just makes it more retarded. So I'm completely indifferent to who wins here.

But from my time of watching and playing a bit of L4D and seeing how the Majini work, it's obvious who has more of an advantage.

Not every single Majini in this Versus match has a weapon. And only a restricted and limited amount of weapons even exist in the cities. They'd have to waste their time being able to look for them, when their main goal is to destroy the infected. So it's not top priority agenda for them to get their hands on these weapons.

the infected are clearly faster. Especially the Witch and Tank.
The Hunter has amazing reflexes and would ravage and kill in an instant, being able to fling and leap across the field pinning down and raping other Majini until he's finally brought down.

Smokers can snipe and take down Majini with weapons and who are more of a threat with ease and the others wouldn't help one who's being dragged away because their main goal once again, is to kill and destroy the infected, not comprehend to aid another.

Boomers can move around with such agility for their weight, it's ridiculous. They can crouch and wait and lead ambushes. And the infected certainly do know how to communicate with each other and set up these gurrellia war-fare tactics.

True, bow and arrows or melee weapons wouldn't be much of a threat or do damage to a Tank who is able to survive more much damaging weapons. It's canon fact the Tank is enraged and more violent while on flames. So is a Witch. It's just obvious the infected happen to react more violently when on fire and their want to survive increases, so their faster and stronger.

Originally posted by Voyeur
You really want to talk about that?

I ****ing hate zombies. I think they're stupid and make no sense, and you can ask any of my mates how them and I will go into debates about how retarded the un-dead are and the fact people feed their hype and love them, just makes it more retarded. So I'm completely indifferent to who wins here.

But from my time of watching and playing a bit of L4D and seeing how the Majini work, it's obvious who has more of an advantage.

Not every single Majini in this Versus match has a weapon. And only a restricted and limited amount of weapons even exist in the cities. They'd have to waste their time being able to look for them, when their main goal is to destroy the infected. So it's not top priority agenda for them to get their hands on these weapons.

Most of them do. I've played and beaten both games several times. Restricted and limited? It is clear Majini will use anything to their advantage. Even bottles. It's a sign of intelligence. I love the L4D Zombies and I'm a fan of the game but they're dumber and less organized. Hell, most of them fall victim to four intelligence, organized humans. It's obvious they stand no chance against opponents with shreds of intelligence.



He'd be pouncing and he'd leap on one. Then what? Another Majini could take an axe or a shovel to him and have him on the ground.

The tanks are fast? It's irrelevant. One word: Ndesu.

The Majini have both power and intelligence. If we're playing with game mechanics here, the Majini are much stronger than the infected. They injure harder and are more difficult to kill.



That doesn't make sense and you have no evidence of it either. They clearly have the intelligence to work together and aid each other. You've played the game, right?

Smokers can snipe? They capture one and they give away their position. BAM! A crossbow Majini shoots the smoker and it's game over. Hell, they were able to easily spot Chris and Sheva in the back of a house through the window. What's a smoker who clearly makes his position visible by extracting his tongue across the battlefield?



Really? They can? Where's your evidence? I've seen them sit around, puke and fight each other. They're uncontrollable and stupid. They certainly don't know how to communicate. Boomers have low stamina, by the way. They'd drop quickly.



Actually, the general infected drop instantly when on fire, so the few special infected that do move faster when on fire are dying by fire. The Majini could take them out easily. Plus, they're illuminated targets.

Or they could come in on dirtbikes and trucks. They'd mow down so many.

Originally posted by Genesis
Canon of the game dictates and assumes the main players make it through each film without losses. This overrides gameplay mechanics. This would mean they've survived Tanks and have killed them. For example, there wouldn't be a "Dead Air" campaign if not for that cutscene in "Death Toll" and the survivors making it to the end, right? If the Tanks won (Canonically) no more survivors.

There has been no confirmation of each campaign being chronologically canon. As of this posting, each campaign are considered standalone.

Originally posted by Genesis
That's a lie. In the game, bullets do not bounce off of the tank. Why would anything else? What evidence do you have they will bounce off of him? Blood spurts from him when the bullets make contact. I'm pretty sure this means that bullets enter him.

I read the post you quoted, and in nowhere did I see him mention that the Tank was bulletproof. The Tank is described as bullet resistant, which is why it takes so many hits to go down, but not bulletproof. Bullets also have a greater degree of PSI than an axe, either thrown or swung. That is why I am unsure that axes would be very effective against Tanks.

Originally posted by Genesis
What the? You can't use game mechanics during a versus match-up.

Whoever originally posted the quote this is a response to, please try and refrain from using game mechanics as evidence.

Originally posted by Genesis
And? It would only take one well-placed Cephalo maturation to wipe out dozens upon dozens of infected.

How powerful are Cephalo maturations? I can understand a tentacle swiping and knocking down infected, but I don't see how it could do serious damage.

Originally posted by Genesis
They all have their parasites mature or they don't function as undead. Period. The Type 2 Plagas is already at a matured state when it enters it's host. Some do evolve into OTHER TYPES of Plagas forms but they're all matured.

It's not like the Majini where they sometimes transform. The dogs, after seconds, will transform. Always. Same with the hyenas. Why? The type 2 Plagas is ALREADY matured, as I've said a thousand times.

The Type 2 Plagas is already matured. I said this minutes ago. You might as well limit the Majini entirely because every single one already has a matured virus type in them.

How can it not be considered Majini? It is a host to the Type 2 Plagas. It's a descendant from El Gigante, which is a Las Plagas specimen.

The bolded words are what I mean when I speak of Matured Las Plagas. Had you checked the link I had put in the OP? It leads to a wiki article, where it separates the Majini from Matured Las Plagas. That is why I have been referring to them as such. As for Ndesu, any reference to El Gigante is moot, because this is solely Resident Evil 5 we're focusing on. Can you show me some evidence that Ndesu is a Majini that had their Plagas parasite mutate them so? If Ndesu was formed through more than just natural mutation (i.e. if there was any experimentation done to enhance the transformation) then it is not legal for this debate.

Originally posted by Genesis
You seem biased. Instead of gathered explanations, you just go on about how good the infected are compared the Majini. What makes them better? The Majini are fast. They're sneaky (We seem them hiding in boxes and doors) and they have the power that the infected do as well. They can smash through concrete (As seen in the Public Assembly level) they can push down barriers you put up (Like huge shelves.) and they can bust up doors. They're like the infected EXCEPT for one detail; The Majini are far superior when it comes to intelligence.

Yes, but most Majini are capable of this. The Hunter is a special infected.

They can speak. They can use weapons. They're organized. They use tactics. They can drive vehicles. For crying out loud, they're much more intelligence than the infected. That's damn important.

Staggering doesn't prove pain. Wow. The Majini can get up from shotgun blasts, without showing pain. Staggering back from the blast of a gun doesn't prove pain. Sorry. You'll have to do better. A pistol shot can take down an infected in one shot sometimes. A single pistol shot will never take down a Majini unless it is in the head. Sometimes, that doesn't even work or the Majini just transforms.

Why is it not allowed? Because the infected might lose? You're showing more bias here. It's upsetting.

You're not making it between two generic entities. You're basically saying that the generic Majini (And you've limited their transformation abilities) get to fight the infected and their boss infected. Why shouldn't the Majini get their bosses? I know why. The infected would lose. Quickly.


Clearly I've underestimated the Majini, and I'm completely willing to concede to it. I have miniscule experience with RE5, and no experience with RE4 with which to parallel to.

I am biased, yes. I've played Left 4 Dead more times, and I like the concept of the Special Infected, particularly the Witch. We all have our preferences. The point of the debate, however, is to not let our bias overshadow our logical reasoning.

Yes, I've limited the Majini, because I already know that they have feats from previous titles, as well as a whatever will come from their current title, while the Infected are pretty much what they are.

If I had realized just how much more they progressed, I would have limited them further, or given more leeway to the Infected. As it is, I didn't, and I limited the Special Infected as well, for what I thought would be a well balanced fight.

I could try and accuse some of your statements as bias theories, but I'm not. Instead I will take you at your word, and continue to debate for the Infected, as I feel they still have a possibility of victory.


Originally posted by Genesis
I understand. Thank you for that.
You're welcome.

I was making a point. I never stated he claimed it was bulletproof.



No, you're misinterpreting. The Tank has a larger RESISTANCE to bullets. Either way, the bullet do penetrate the Tank (As seen by the blood spurting in-game) and do kill him. Of course a bullet has a larger PSI. This does not prove he is immune to axes, crossbows or various other weaponry. I don't think it would be all that effective either but if you have a large group of Majini with varying weapons working to take a Tank to the ground, you don't think the Tank would be finished? Then there is Ndesu. That thing would utterly destroy the tank. It took two separate mounted miniguns to take it down. You can take down a tank with shotgun fire.




Well, the tentacle is also bladed in several areas and it knocked Chris and Sheva on their asses (Chris is over two hundred pounds) It has power and it also has blades in the tentacle to boot.





You're looking for a workaround. Too bad you can't. The fight with the Ndesu itself is evidence enough. He has Type 2 Plagas tentacles tearing out of his body. Actually, it has SEVERAL Type 2 Plagas infections within it's structure.

You're getting it wrong here. They don't have "Las Plagas" within them. They have the Type 2 Plagas. It's different. It is already MATURED before it is forced into it's host.





That's understandable. I know I come off as biased towards RE5 but I own and have played both games numerous times and I can personally tell you (And even show you) why the Majini are superior. I could understand even if the infected had greater numbers than the Majini but they're balanced and the Majini just outclass the Infected. The boss infected would do damage, of course. It's a matter of numbers though. The infected just aren't enough and the general infected would be destroyed so quickly and easily.


Right.



Okay.



Okay.



That's fine. You're entitled to that. I just don't think they would win, especially with the parameters of the fight as they are in your specific scenario. I think the infected would be torn apart.




Ah, a gentleman. What a rarity among these forums.

Originally posted by Genesis
Pardon? They were never near a military installation. Where are you getting your information from? There's a town, a village, mines, caves, an oil refinery, marshlands, a research facility, a boat, an airplane and a volcano.

And a town, a village, mines, caves, oil refineries, marshlands, research facilities, boats, airplanes and volcanoes are known to have military grade weapons just lying around for the Majini to pick up?

Regardless of that, I've made it clear there are no military installations in this scenario, so there would be no way for the Majini to get access to such high level firepower.

Originally posted by Genesis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFXjmoddjIU

First one you encounter runs at you. Throughout the rest of the game, they'll run, climb and jump until they're at you.

Very well, thank you for providing the evidence. I will concede this point.




Originally posted by Genesis
Well, the infected get everyone they've got in this scenario and the Majini don't. Is it not tilted? How can you say that you're not tilting it?

If the Majini had the crocodiles, the soldier Majini, the tribal Majini, Uroboros (Which is in the metropolis), Cephalos, U-8's, etc .... The infected would be damned. I understand you're trying to make a balanced battle but the Majini are deadly, even with the lower tier ones. The infected don't evolve as quickly as they do nor to the capability that they do in terms of viral infection speed. The Majini can use their tentacles at will (As seen in-game when they grab you) and even transform into something much deadlier (Sometimes) when killed.

Yes, in my previous post I made it clear that I had underestimated the Majini greatly. It was my own ignorance that made me believe otherwise. That said, I still believe the Infected are possible of defeating the Majini.


Originally posted by Genesis
They throw dynamite, though. They obviously pick up what they see. Even so, a few Majini with guns is a significant threat. They'd take out a considerate amount of infected just with those firearms. Then, if they run out of bullets, why not just take on them with another weapon or with their physical body?

Do we have strength feats we can compare for the two forces? I know enough Infected can tear down walls, but again, I know very little about Majini. I don't know how well going hand to hand would work.



Originally posted by Genesis
No, I'm not. If his example of physics is wrong, does he succeed?

No, he does not. Regardless, your manner of response could have been much more civil. You could have simply said that you believed him to be wrong.

Originally posted by Genesis
Why couldn't a thrown axe hurt the tank? There's no evidence to suggest his skin is made of steel. His tissue and muscle can still be penetrated.

I've stated before that my opinion is that bullets have the piercing power to break the Tank's skin. A thrown axe, unless thrown by one of the Axe Majini, I don't believe would have the necessary power behind it.

Originally posted by Genesis
You can't tell me the intention of what I said. You can't. He needs to get real or he should not argue against me. His debating pattern is shoddy.

You're right, I don't know the intention of what you say, I can only go off my perception. However, my perception is that it was rude, uncalled for, and not constructive in any way. If his debating pattern is shoddy, you might mention that instead, in a civil manner, than simply telling him to "get real".


Originally posted by Genesis
I am. I'm stating a fact. He shouldn't. His bias is incredible.

He has responded to this, so I will only say that if you think someone needs to be made aware of their faults, you do so in a civil manner, please.

Originally posted by Genesis
Who said it did?

Again, my assumptions. I apologize if it seemed overly rude.

Originally posted by Genesis
I was making a point. I never stated he claimed it was bulletproof.

Fair enough.

Originally posted by Genesis
No, you're misinterpreting. The Tank has a larger RESISTANCE to bullets. Either way, the bullet do penetrate the Tank (As seen by the blood spurting in-game) and do kill him. Of course a bullet has a larger PSI. This does not prove he is immune to axes, crossbows or various other weaponry.

The reason I saw axes wouldn't be able to affect him is because of the power behind the swing or throw. That's pretty much the basis of my thinking. In any case, even if the Majini did swarm the Tank to try and chip him down, he wouldn't just (excuse the pun) be tanking it. He'd be knocking them on their asses.

Originally posted by Genesis
I don't think it would be all that effective either but if you have a large group of Majini with varying weapons working to take a Tank to the ground, you don't think the Tank would be finished? Then there is Ndesu. That thing would utterly destroy the tank. It took two separate mounted miniguns to take it down. You can take down a tank with shotgun fire.

...I forgot what I was gonna say to this. Oh well.


Originally posted by Genesis
Well, the tentacle is also bladed in several areas and it knocked Chris and Sheva on their asses (Chris is over two hundred pounds) It has power and it also has blades in the tentacle to boot.

I wasn't aware the tentacle had blades. That makes things a big more difficult. Can it swing itself over a wide arc to tag multiple opponents? Or does it act like more of a whip?

Originally posted by Genesis
You're looking for a workaround. Too bad you can't. The fight with the Ndesu itself is evidence enough. He has Type 2 Plagas tentacles tearing out of his body. Actually, it has SEVERAL Type 2 Plagas infections within it's structure.

You might be right, but having the tentacles out only confirms it as a symbiote, not as a Majini mutation. Besides, if I want to nitpick to make things easier for the Infected, can you blame me? :P

In all honesty, though, if you can show me that the Ndesu is a Majini that went Uber on its own, and didn't have any outside help from the research labs, then I'll allow it.

Originally posted by Genesis
You're getting it wrong here. They don't have "Las Plagas" within them. They have the Type 2 Plagas. It's different. It is already MATURED before it is forced into it's host.

Is it really that great of a leap? Still, if using the term "Las Plagas" is confusing you, then I'll start referring to it as Type 2 Plagas, though I don't really see a difference.

Originally posted by Genesis
That's understandable. I know I come off as biased towards RE5 but I own and have played both games numerous times and I can personally tell you (And even show you) why the Majini are superior. I could understand even if the infected had greater numbers than the Majini but they're balanced and the Majini just outclass the Infected. The boss infected would do damage, of course. It's a matter of numbers though. The infected just aren't enough and the general infected would be destroyed so quickly and easily.

You've shown me a great deal of evidence, and I commend you for it, but calling the victory for the Majini is still just opinion until you can win me over.

Originally posted by Genesis
That's fine. You're entitled to that. I just don't think they would win, especially with the parameters of the fight as they are in your specific scenario. I think the infected would be torn apart.

See above. Don't think that I'm some idiot fanboy who won't know when to admit defeat, though. I'm sure you can prove to me that the Majini deserve this victory.

Originally posted by Genesis
Ah, a gentleman. What a rarity among these forums.

Why, thank you! I simply try to treat others with respect unless they've proven they don't deserve it. You don't have to worry about that so far.

Told ya Xan isn't me.

Originally posted by Genesis
Most of them do. I've played and beaten both games several times. Restricted and limited? It is clear Majini will use anything to their advantage. Even bottles. It's a sign of intelligence. I love the L4D Zombies and I'm a fan of the game but they're dumber and less organized. Hell, most of them fall victim to four intelligence, organized humans. It's obvious they stand no chance against opponents with shreds of intelligence.

Semi-Point. If there were few Majini, it might not be a problem, but with both sides more or less equal, yeah.


Originally posted by Genesis
He'd be pouncing and he'd leap on one. Then what? Another Majini could take an axe or a shovel to him and have him on the ground.

Semi-point. Hunters are notorious for waiting until a Horde has their prey distracted before they pounce. Assuming this is the case, the Majini would have to cut through the Horde before they can reach the Hunter, and by then it may be too late.

Originally posted by Genesis
The tanks are fast? It's irrelevant. One word: Ndesu.

Heeeyyy, I see what you're doing there. You know what you have to do get me to allow that rebuttal. ;P

Originally posted by Genesis
The Majini have both power and intelligence. If we're playing with game mechanics here, the Majini are much stronger than the infected. They injure harder and are more difficult to kill.

I would call this point, but again, try to think beyond game mechanics. It just limits the debate as a whole.


Originally posted by Genesis
That doesn't make sense and you have no evidence of it either. They clearly have the intelligence to work together and aid each other. You've played the game, right?

I don't think he has, Genesis. As for the aid remark, have you seen them aid each other in terms of just joining forces to attack Chris and Sheva? Or have they shown evidence of aiding a fallen comrade? This is skirting my own game mechanics rule, but even from what I've seen in the few cutscenes I've watched, which generally don't fall under the game mechanic stigma, they don't seem to aid their injured. Again, I'm bereft of real knowledge, so if you can show me, then I'll give the point.

Originally posted by Genesis
Smokers can snipe? They capture one and they give away their position. BAM! A crossbow Majini shoots the smoker and it's game over. Hell, they were able to easily spot Chris and Sheva in the back of a house through the window. What's a smoker who clearly makes his position visible by extracting his tongue across the battlefield?

How far away did they spot the PCs? Smoker's can shoot their tongue a very long distance, would the crossbows even be able to reach them? They're also known for staying as hidden as possible to minimize the chances of being shot down. Would the Majini be intelligent enough to realize that they can attack the tongue to get free?


Originally posted by Genesis
Really? They can? Where's your evidence? I've seen them sit around, puke and fight each other. They're uncontrollable and stupid. They certainly don't know how to communicate. Boomers have low stamina, by the way. They'd drop quickly.

As a whole the Horde are rather stupid, yes. It's really the Boomer who acts more of a commanding type, I'm assuming not entirely unlike an Agitator, the only difference is the Boomer uses his bile to direct his troops, and Boomers are known for being able to jump in, barf, and jump out.

Originally posted by Genesis
Actually, the general infected drop instantly when on fire, so the few special infected that do move faster when on fire are dying by fire. The Majini could take them out easily. Plus, they're illuminated targets.

Point.

Originally posted by Genesis
Or they could come in on dirtbikes and trucks. They'd mow down so many.

Very good point, as I didn't limit their ability to drive vehicles. Though I'm sure the Infected would find some way around that, or else they wouldn't have taken over a metropolis to begin with.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Told ya Xan isn't me.

That's right, Tyler...I mean, Scream.

I'm off to bed. I probably won't be back on the boards until tomorrow. Hopefully someone else will be able to take over for me. Until next time, folks. *A horde of Witches pick him up and carry him away* ;D

The way I see it, the Infected would be leading with major victories until they lost their Tanks. Then, it would all start to go down hill for them.

Bump...Oh hai!

>.>

<.<

LOOK! A DISTRACTION! *runs in the opposite direction*

Originally posted by Shaggs
The way I see it, the Infected would be leading with major victories until they lost their Tanks. Then, it would all start to go down hill for them.

Majins will be dead before the tanks die.

Moar debate, please. : ) I need a new opponent to spar with...I still say The Infected have a shot, but Genesis has certainly shaken my resolve. Who can land the knockout blow?

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Majins will be dead before the tanks die.