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All abilities of Kratos & Raziel, except Raziel can't use his soul rip. And no Raziel's invisible ability isn't going to help.

Don't forget that Kratos has Artemis Blade--that slayed a Titan.

I like raziel... what do you have against him to put him in this fight.

Raziel is gonna be more dead than he is now when he fights Kratos. I call spite.

you dont know how much suffering you just put raziel through... lol kratos dominates.

Why did you nerf Raziel......

And you take away soul rip when its probably his only useful ability in this matchup...lame...

god damn spite

Originally posted by Burning thought
Why did you nerf Raziel......

And you take away soul rip when its probably his only useful ability in this matchup...lame...


Okay, let me get this straight; You think that Raziel can beat Seph, you think that Seph can beat Kratos, but Kratos loses to Raziel.

I dont remember saying Raziel can beat sephiroth recently although it may be possible. Sephiroth can beat Kratos with Neg lifestream and no, I never said Kratos loses to Raziel in this thread...

Although GOW Kratos or maybe even late GOW 2 Kratos would have a disadvantage against Raziel.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=473563&highlight=Raziel+vs+Sephiroth+forumid%3A85

I must've misread you. Played Defiance last night; Half of what Razielhas Kratos has.

tbh now ime not sure either can beat the other, although Sephiroth is just as vulerable to TK as anyone else.

But you said Raziel may not soul rip in this combat.

Raziel has many powers, he can go invisible, blind Kratos with the light reaver and use his elemental reavers to burn, freeze etc the god of war.

When using the typical power of the wraith blade he could quite easily just impale Kratos and take his soul right off the bat. Or he could just TK Kratos about the place.

I'm a dumbass lol, I forgot he couldn't soul rip.

PtTfqwc4sXk I don't think invisibility will work. But he does have his TK so.... and Kratos has been blinded by the power of the sun.

What exactly is the Wraith Blade? LOL, now I wish I would've allowed Raziel's soul-ripping ability.

Its Raziels starving soul that drains the souls of the enemies he strikes. Its a soul that eats other souls as it hits them basically....

The only reason invisiblity didnt work for Perseus is because he was running about in water, a massive disadvantage.

So I take it you think Raziel wins?

If he was allowed soul powers yeh, but without them it would take a debate for me to decide.

Even if he was able to use his soul powers, he would have to weaken Kratos to take his soul.

Why? Kratos has no soul defences, Raziel would just pass the reaver through kratos.

How come Raziel is the only one with the free will? If he dies, he returns.

He does not really have free will tbh, that is a misconception by the characters but I wont spoil the game for you

Why did Kain tell Raziel he had a free will then?

Well, isn't he designatedto kill Kain?

NOTE: I already know if he dies, he can return over and over, etc.

Because thats what Kain belives, but it turns out to be untrue. And theres some misconceptions with the destinies of both. Have you seen the murals that depict Raziel as some sort of Saviour? and Kain as an enemy or vice versa?

Is that in Defiance? If so what chapter?

I think I may have saw the one with Kain as the Savior.

I cant remember, but Raziel and Kain both see the murals in the old vampire citadel ruins, where you fight the statues

I think I saw it. Is it the level, where you get the family crest?

Raziel gets betrayed by Kain, and gets KOed and thrown into the Abyss, then he gets "saved" by Elder God, becomes the "Harvester of Souls/Angel of Death, then the pain he took was receded. It is your fate to kill The Lord of Vampires Kain. Raziel was "higher" than Kain.

Kratos gets betrayed by Zeus and killed by Zeus, he gets sent to Hades, and his saved by Gaia/Titans, Gaia heals you, and now it is your fate to killZeus--King of Olympus/King of Gods. Zeus was afraid of Kratos, and hewas worshipped as "their" God.

Coincidence?

Hmm maybe but its not Raziels fate, the Elder God is a lier, and by the end of the game youll realise Raziels fate was a tad bit wrong.

Well, I do see a coincidence.

Well you said no spoilers. So I can only guess what happens. So, is he the "good" Angel of Death or "bad" A-O-D?

both

Can you permantly kill Raziel? I heard he will return over and over. He can be cut into pieces, stoned, etc and he still can return...

Yes because his soul is actually under his control 100% the same as most vampire entities, the diffrence between Raziel dieing however and Kain, is that Kain would become a vampire wraith in the spectoral plane, wheras Raziel already is a special type of wraith and is capable of making his soul material again, therefore re-creating his physical form.

So yes, if you blow him up, slice him in half, disintegrate him etc, he will return.

So it's technially "impossible" to kill him?

Great, thanks.

You would require soul powers to destroy him permanently.

You mean like the soul reaver?

Yes, or more accuratley the blood reaver, its not called the Soul reaver until Raziel is already in it.

The Soul reaver cannot kill or harm Raziel, the seemingly indestructable sword explodes if Kain uses it on Raziel.

So, w/o any of those weapon's your screwed.

BTW, he sounds invincible lol.

Originally posted by Burning thought
tbh now ime not sure either can beat the other, although Sephiroth is just as vulerable to TK as anyone else.

But you said Raziel may not soul rip in this combat.

Raziel has many powers, he can go invisible, blind Kratos with the light reaver and use his elemental reavers to burn, freeze etc the god of war.

When using the typical power of the wraith blade he could quite easily just impale Kratos and take his soul right off the bat. Or he could just TK Kratos about the place.

Well, Kratos could blind Raziel with the head of helios, petrify him with the medusa,euryales head, and could defeat him with the power of hope,destroy him with rages, throw the blades of olympus and if he escapes he could use his blades of exile and use the claws of hades to rip his soul apart!etc...
And dont forget hes got boots of hermes to keep up with him.

In light of GoW 3, Kratos would indeed defeat Raziel if he somehow avoided being Tked into the air. Kratos now has the spiritual means to get rid of Raziel. Raziel has implied spiritual immunity but its not that clear.

Wasnt Raziel limited somehow here? With Kratos being upped by GoW3 Raz should be at full power.

He lost his power to take souls. He should be allowed any and all abilities at thise stage considering Gow 3 boost. I want the exact weight/strength of Cronos or at least a rough estimate, how much does the Empire state building weigh which was the equivalant apprently to Cronos in size, obviously Cronos could weigh less as he is not made of steel and other building materials. Then from the perhaps we can find out the PSI of Cronos' slap on Kratos.

Could try and get that answer. He's 500m tall so.... will be back with a rough answer later.

I don't see how allowing Raziel everything will change anything. Kratos will still roflstomp the poor boy.

/shrugs Dont remember how his power works, still looses again that I know of.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Could try and get that answer. He's 500m tall so.... will be back with a rough answer later.

Cool, its probably impossible to be exact. Perhaps try multiplying the average humans height and size of Cronos?

Then multiply strength in one arm and compare, I dont really know how we could get a more accurate figuire of how much PSI is spread through Kratos.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I don't see how allowing Raziel everything will change anything. Kratos will still roflstomp the poor boy.

It would mean an invisible, more agile and quick Raziel could take Kratos' soul or PSI willing ,slash him open or blind him through eye gouging.

One way or another, Raziel could technically gain a win even if its a cheap "Tk hold".

I don't believe Raziel has the strength to damage Kratos, there was debate whether 4.5 gigajoules on a sword would be enough in another thread. Raziel's setting on less than 200 kj.

Here's where I bring up two seperate points;
-Gotta damage someone to take their soul.
-Does Kratos not receive soul resistance in GoW3?

Raziel can definitely damage Kratos but Kratos is clearly stronger, more skilled, better weaponry and an all around bigger badass. Kratos owns him but let's not get crazy here and suggest Raziel can't pierce his skin.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Raziel can definitely damage Kratos but Kratos is clearly stronger, more skilled, better weaponry and an all around bigger badass. Kratos owns him but let's not get crazy here and suggest Raziel can't pierce his skin. Raziel can't. It truthfully is that simple.

Raziel can create 501 tonnes PSI per slash, it may be possible for Kratos to be pierced as the Titans strength in one arm at his speed may not equate to enough PSI, this would be divided as Raziels claw tip would be striking less surface area than the Titans hand did.

Thats not actually true, Raziels wraith sword has to past into them for him to take their soul. "damage" is not a gauge.

Kratos can resist Hades "type" of soul stealing but its vastly different to Raziels and more physical based.

Even if Raziel TK'd Kratos, Kratos has longer range, Raziel still couldn't get close while Kratos swings his blades.

Kratos would not be able to swing his blades, his blades are not too heavy to be Tked. Not to mension Kratos would not be in the best situation to be in, hovering in the air, possibly facing away from Raziel who using the Dark reaver form can go invisble. Raziel can have all the tactical cards in his deck, brain over brawn etc.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Raziel can't. It truthfully is that simple. Based on what? Seriously, tell me why he cannot pierce his flesh i fhe's strong enough to rip out a heart with his bare hands? Who has Raziel failed to pierce with his sword as well?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Based on what? Seriously, tell me why he cannot pierce his flesh i fhe's strong enough to rip out a heart with his bare hands? Who has Raziel failed to pierce with his sword as well? Raziel failed to harm Dumah. Kratos is far more durable than Dumah.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Raziel failed to harm Dumah. Kratos is far more durable than Dumah. Which game was this, soulreaver 1?

Dumahs durability is unknown and I dont recall the cutscene that claims he could not harm Dumah, I remember the game mechanic had you burinng him but I cannot recall him not actually being able to do it in canon.

Just remembered that I was meant to get the strength >.>
Hmm, am I finding the weight of his whole arm or only a little more then the hand as thats the only part on top of him? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQFpEJ25zRQ -7:05.

Edit: Got some numbers :/ only need to know if its the hand+ or the whole arm.

Not sure really, the hand I guess is the weight but the arm is part of the strength. Just multiply the size of an average male humans hand/arm so its size equels the titans. That will give you its weight, then I am not sure how we could measure how much strength Cronos could put into it.

Not entirely sure what it means but perhaps this may be useful?

http://www.springerlink.com/content/v314l346187352n7/

Edit: not sure what I did but ive found an old number i got for Cronos' bodyweight. Roughly around 3038651 tonnes. This is his average overall lifting strength if we go by the fact a human can on average lift its own bodyweight then perhaps we can work out the strength of the Titan in one arm.....assuming my figuire is correct.

Does Raziel even need to "cut through" his skin? I was always under impression that the soul reaver in his hands just phase through the body and rip the soul off.

It does, I am just trying to work out if thats even required. Kratos could just be blinded by flash of light, Tked and soul raped in other ways. His jelly eyeballs could be plucked from his sockets as well, Raziel could make this more interesting than simply a bloodlusted slash.

Originally posted by SamZED
Does Raziel even need to "cut through" his skin? I was always under impression that the soul reaver in his hands just phase through the body and rip the soul off. Good point but to suggest he can't pierce Kratos' flesh is just ridiculous.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Dumahs durability is unknown and I dont recall the cutscene that claims he could not harm Dumah, I remember the game mechanic had you burinng him but I cannot recall him not actually being able to do it in canon. Which game was it, 1?

Actually, it's not. You'd need to be a lot stronger than Raziel is to damage him at all.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Good point but to suggest he can't pierce Kratos' flesh is just ridiculous.

Which game was it, 1?

This is still being gauged by me and Bloodrain via PMs, were trying to work out PSI, as it looks now I dont think anyone can penetrate Kratos with anyhing at their disposal, Raziel will have to rely on eyeball slashing and soul raping for a win.

Yes, Dumah is from Soul reaver 1.

I demand to see these numbers.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Actually, it's not. You'd need to be a lot stronger than Raziel is to damage him at all. Based on what? Originally posted by Burning thought
This is still being gauged by me and Bloodrain via PMs, were trying to work out PSI, as it looks now I dont think anyone can penetrate Kratos with anyhing at their disposal, Raziel will have to rely on eyeball slashing and soul raping for a win.

Yes, Dumah is from Soul reaver 1. Why don't you think anything can pierce Kratos now?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Based on what? Why don't you think anything can pierce Kratos now?

Based on the stuff he's pulled off, i.e. the PSI he's had to deal with when Cronos attempted to crush him between his palms, and Zeus trying to cut Kratos with the BoO.

Cronos - 2:50
rZGzeH9xllk

Zeus - 7:04 onwards
1jN7iqE1l0Y

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Based on the stuff he's pulled off, i.e. the PSI he's had to deal with when Cronos attempted to crush him between his palms, and Zeus trying to cut Kratos with the BoO.

Cronos - 2:50
rZGzeH9xllk

Zeus - 7:04 onwards
1jN7iqE1l0Y Zeus can cut him with the blade and him gathering up the strength needed to resist being crushed isn't the same thing as being as durable as a diamond.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Zeus can cut him with the blade and him gathering up the strength needed to resist being crushed isn't the same thing as being as durable as a diamond.

Key word being "can", which implies that it is possible, but not certain...i.e. Zeus won't cut Kratos every single time he tries to strike Kratos, as proven in the video.

Also, Cronos must have generated enough PSI to reduce Diamonds to powder when he tried to crush Kratos. It's not just a strength feat.

It's like you trying with all your might to crush an ant between your palms, only for the ant stop your palm.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Key word being "can", which implies that it is possible, but not certain...i.e. Zeus won't cut Kratos every single time he tries to strike Kratos, as proven in the video.

Also, Cronos must have generated enough PSI to reduce Diamonds to powder when he tried to crush Kratos. It's not just a strength feat.

It's like you trying with all your might to crush an ant between your palms, only for the ant stop your palm. Yes, only because he is trying to resist. My point was never he cuts him everytime my point was always Kratos can be sliced open he just needs to avoid it and kill him first.

Yes, because if Kratos was like a diamond then he wouldn't need to resist. he used his strength to do so but the creators weren't sitting there saying he can probably lift 40,000 tons easily. Like I said earlier it's about common sense. Sure Kratos is stronger than Raziel but if raziel slices him it's going to hurt.

Yes, if the ant did so it was due to strength otherwise his body alone couldn't stop a person trying to do so.

That's true, but only if Raziel is close to Zeus' level when it comes to strength...which he isn't.

Not really. If he was like a Diamond, and he didn't try to resist, he'd get crushed. His body also has to be able to withstand the enormous Force and PSI that Cronos generated. Strength alone won't cut it. You have to be incredibly durable as well.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
That's true, but only if Raziel is close to Zeus' level when it comes to strength...which he isn't.

Not really. If he was like a Diamond, and he didn't try to resist, he'd get crushed. His body also has to be able to withstand the enormous Force and PSI that Cronos generated. Strength alone won't cut it. You have to be incredibly durable as well. Where do you come up with this stuff?

Raziel doesn't need to have his strength to pierce Kratos. I still favor Kratos in this matchup but for you to act like he can't pierce him it borders the borderlands of bad logic.


No, if he was like a diamond he wouldn't need to resist. he exerted his strength and fought his finger away long enough to blind him through Helios' head.

Forces have opposite/equel reactions, Kratos taking the force of Cronos' hands is incredible PSI across his body, strength "stopped" the hand but the force and strength of Cronos still passes through Kratos' hands, making him nigh invulerable to harm.

Me and Bloodrain figuires are getting close to 20k tonnes of PSI before being divided across the square inches of Kratos' hands, it "may" be just about possible for Raziel to scratch Kratos, only just....

Originally posted by quanchi112
Where do you come up with this stuff?

Raziel doesn't need to have his strength to pierce Kratos. I still favor Kratos in this matchup but for you to act like he can't pierce him it borders the borderlands of bad logic.


No, if he was like a diamond he wouldn't need to resist. he exerted his strength and fought his finger away long enough to blind him through Helios' head.

I don't come up with this stuff. It's called physics, the laws of which we assume operate similarly in GoW verse and our world.
BT explained it in the previous post.

Yes he does. If someone isn't strong enough to cut through something with a sword, it simply won't happen even if you are given a super-sharp sword (the result will be slightly better with the super-sharp sword).
Denying this is stupidity that borders on insanity.

The hell? I'm talking about when Cronos tried to crush Kratos with his palm, not with his fingers. Watch the video.

Wait, if a guy is a 10 tonner with a sword his cuts would be the same as a 5 tonner with a sword that cuts twice as good as the others sword. (Like blunt vs super-sharp) Or with a magically enhanced sword.

I was assuming it was the same person (a human) that was cutting throughout.

As for magically enhanced, yeah, that could work. But Kratos has stopped magically enhanced blades as well, and the Wraith Blade is such a weapon, the sharpness of which, we don't know 313

Been trying to explain this to him.

Kratos can stop something like the Wraith Blade?...... what's the Wraith Blade? ~,~

The Wraith Blade is Raziel's weapon. DP was saying Kratos can stop it like he's stopped others like it.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Kratos can stop something like the Wraith Blade?...... what's the Wraith Blade? ~,~ Originally posted by ScreamPaste
The Wraith Blade is Raziel's weapon. DP was saying Kratos can stop it like he's stopped others like it.

Pretty much. I'm assuming it could be stopped by Kratos, since it physically hurts enemies and pretty much functions like a normal physical sword.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Been trying to explain this to him.

Knowing Quanchi, he'll probably just dismiss it and instead try to attribute things to "common sense." haermm

Originally posted by Burning thought
Forces have opposite/equel reactions, Kratos taking the force of Cronos' hands is incredible PSI across his body, strength "stopped" the hand but the force and strength of Cronos still passes through Kratos' hands, making him nigh invulerable to harm.

Me and Bloodrain figuires are getting close to 20k tonnes of PSI before being divided across the square inches of Kratos' hands, it "may" be just about possible for Raziel to scratch Kratos, only just.... It's one incredible strength feat with no real numbers assigned to it. We know Kratos is stronger than Raziel but we can't definitively say how much so. I think it's a large gap but this has nothing to do with his durability.

The way the character is portrayed is very important which dp seems to all but ignore. The answer by busiek has him pegged as one of those spiderman fans who insist spider amn juggle buicks while dismissing how sipderman is portrayed consistently just like he's dismissing how Kratos is being portrayed in favor of one incredible feat.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
I don't come up with this stuff. It's called physics, the laws of which we assume operate similarly in GoW verse and our world.
BT explained it in the previous post.

Yes he does. If someone isn't strong enough to cut through something with a sword, it simply won't happen even if you are given a super-sharp sword (the result will be slightly better with the super-sharp sword).
Denying this is stupidity that borders on insanity.

The hell? I'm talking about when Cronos tried to crush Kratos with his palm, not with his fingers. Watch the video. You're dismissing what previously hurt Kratos and how he's portrayed in favor of one feat which if we take your word for it most characters he can just smash or crush with his brute strength alone yet that's not how he's portrayed in the game at all.


When has Kratos been unable to be pierced or hurt by an enemy with a sword? We see him have to actively resist these attacks or he dies.


Even at his power most powerful at the end of gow 1 we see in part 2 Ares can kill him if he doesn't dodge his strike.

Originally posted by quanchi112


You're dismissing what previously hurt Kratos and how he's portrayed in favor of one feat which if we take your word for it most characters he can just smash or crush with his brute strength alone yet that's not how he's portrayed in the game at all.


When has Kratos been unable to be pierced or hurt by an enemy with a sword? We see him have to actively resist these attacks or he dies.


Even at his power most powerful at the end of gow 1 we see in part 2 Ares can kill him if he doesn't dodge his strike.

Yes, because it is common knowledge that VG characters typically tend to get stronger as we progress in the story. Saying Kratos can be pierced because he was pierced by a thrown pillar early on in his life is stupid. By that logic, someone like Dante is always susceptible to common knives, despite the fact that he probably tanks stronger weapons later on.

Not really. He takes tons of attacks from the Gods without dying. They hurt him, yes, but he still doesn't die. However, Raziel is strong, but I don't think he is as strong as say, Zeus or Hercules. So it's hard to say if Raziel can wound him if he strikes Kratos.
Hell, one or two users here believe that Kratos can be pierced by a charging Centaur. He still doesn't die after he's pierced by the Centaur attack, and he doesn't even have a wound after the impalement.
Even more astounding, is that a near dead Kratos was able to survive BoO impalement from Zeus for one or two minutes.

I don't get you. Ares is dead in Part 2, and God Kratos (the form of Kratos at the end of GoW1 - beginning of GoW2) hasn't been beaten by anyone as far as we know. He had to be weakened first via Zeus' power transfer ability, and then the Power Drain aspect of the BoO.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Yes, because it is common knowledge that VG characters typically tend to get stronger as we progress in the story. Saying Kratos can be pierced because he was pierced by a thrown pillar early on in his life is stupid. By that logic, someone like Dante is always susceptible to common knives, despite the fact that he probably tanks stronger weapons later on.

Not really. He takes tons of attacks from the Gods without dying. They hurt him, yes, but he still doesn't die. However, Raziel is strong, but I don't think he is as strong as say, Zeus or Hercules. So it's hard to say if Raziel can wound him if he strikes Kratos.
Hell, one or two users here believe that Kratos can be pierced by a charging Centaur. He still doesn't die after he's pierced by the Centaur attack, and he doesn't even have a wound after the impalement.
Even more astounding, is that a near dead Kratos was able to survive BoO impalement from Zeus for one or two minutes.

I don't get you. Ares is dead in Part 2, and God Kratos (the form of Kratos at the end of GoW1 - beginning of GoW2) hasn't been beaten by anyone as far as we know. He had to be weakened first via Zeus' power transfer ability, and then the Power Drain aspect of the BoO. Kratos would have to avoid the attack. We saw him at his most powerful be able to be slaughtered by Ares so you saying he grows stronger is all fine and dandy but even at his strongest he can still be killed or pierced in giant form.

Raziel doesn't need to be as strong to pierce Kratos he needs to be as strong to win a test of strength or resist fighting over a sword like Kratos has done so in the past.


Kratos has never been this unpiercable character. It's just not the way they set him up. He's a highly skilled warrior who is very strong who needs to defeat you in battle via the application of his skills,strength, and strength not because he's impenetrable.

Yes, Ares is dead but when you battle the sisters of fate they take you back to the moment where you fight Ares. if they destroy the sword Kratos dies but if you prevent her from doing so history repeats itself and the sword is there when he needs it.


Kratos at the end of part 1 wasn't unbeatable he was just the better fighter than ares.

Yeah, because Ares was a God, while Raziel is as far as I know, weaker than Ares in statistical terms. If this were a story, I'd totally understand Raziel beating Kratos, but it's not. It's something of a combat simulation.
Also, in GoW, Kratos needs the PB to beat Ares, yet by the time of GoW 3, he's taking on and defeating the gods without the PB.

Okay, so you think Raziel has to be strong enough to win a contest of strength with Kratos, or a fight for a sword with Kratos?

I never said he's an unpierceable warrior. What I, and others are saying, is that based on the durability he's demonstrated, it'll either be impossible, or extremely hard for Raziel to hurt Kratos with a sword.
Not unless Raziel's wraith blade is enchanted so that it can hurt whatever it strikes, which I don't think is the case.

The whole Ares killing him bit is non-canon and never happened. Yes, Ares can kill him, I'm not denying that. But Raziel isn't Ares or Zeus, or Poseidon, or Hades (well, he has a Soul Rip like Hades, but it's banned in this fight I think)

Oh. I thought you were talking about the God Kratos shown in the GoW 2 Intro.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Yeah, because Ares was a God, while Raziel is as far as I know, weaker than Ares in statistical terms. If this were a story, I'd totally understand Raziel beating Kratos, but it's not. It's something of a combat simulation.
Also, in GoW, Kratos needs the PB to beat Ares, yet by the time of GoW 3, he's taking on and defeating the gods without the PB.

Okay, so you think Raziel has to be strong enough to win a contest of strength with Kratos, or a fight for a sword with Kratos?

I never said he's an unpierceable warrior. What I, and others are saying, is that based on the durability he's demonstrated, it'll either be impossible, or extremely hard for Raziel to hurt Kratos with a sword.
Not unless Raziel's wraith blade is enchanted so that it can hurt whatever it strikes, which I don't think is the case.

The whole Ares killing him bit is non-canon and never happened. Yes, Ares can kill him, I'm not denying that. But Raziel isn't Ares or Zeus, or Poseidon, or Hades (well, he has a Soul Rip like Hades, but it's banned in this fight I think)

Oh. I thought you were talking about the God Kratos shown in the GoW 2 Intro. Because he still had the power of pandora's box. Ares was still strong enough to kill Kratos before he received the power of Pandora's box yet still strong enough to kill him with it because Kratos isn't the uber durable character you have him mixed up to be.


If they lock swords and are simply trying to overpower the other one yes but if they are just swordfighting Raziel is more than able to cut him or keep him off guard with his tk abilities.

If you played the game you'd realize raziel's soul reaver just like Kain's physical soulreaver are the baddest weapons out of the entire games so of course they pierce him.

The point is it could happen not that it did happen. Kratos has always been able to be cut and acting as if he isn't when facing someone with a weapon like the soulreaver is just misguided.

No he did not. He only had Hope, which wasn't unlocked until after he had killed the rest of the gods.
And Raziel is somehow as strong as Ares is in Giant Form amirite?

drylaughSo because they are the baddest weapons in the LoK series, they can cut Kratos?drylaugh
That's faulty logic. If Raziel is strong enough, he won't have problems cutting Kratos. My question is: Is he strong enough? BT and BR say it might be possible, but until they confirm he can cut Kratos, I'll say Raziel cannot cut him.

Raziel does not have the Soul Reaver, not in the strictest sense. Have YOU played the games?

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
No he did not. He only had Hope, which wasn't unlocked until after he had killed the rest of the gods.
And Raziel is somehow as strong as Ares is in Giant Form amirite?

drylaughSo because they are the baddest weapons in the LoK series, they can cut Kratos?drylaugh
That's faulty logic. If Raziel is strong enough, he won't have problems cutting Kratos. My question is: Is he strong enough? BT and BR say it might be possible, but until they confirm he can cut Kratos, I'll say Raziel cannot cut him.

Raziel does not have the Soul Reaver, not in the strictest sense. Have YOU played the games? He was still powerful enough to kill the gods and was always powerful enough ever since he challenged them after part 1.

No, I never made that claim. My point was even at Kratos' strongest he didn't win because he was beyond ares he won because he fared better in combat.


Who has failed to cut Kratos? I mean seriously what games are you playing here. Can Kratos just stand there and let his enemies wail on him despite being far weaker with the lackluster weapons they have on them? Nah. The point is he has to be better in combat. You have no common sense whatsoever. You don't get how these characters are portrayed at all.

Yes, I have. He does have the spectral soul reaver you ignoramus. Kain has the physical soul reaver. Now what is raziiel revealed to be at the end of defiance to actually be? Wow. Such ignorance.

I always liked the term "ignoramus".
Hm, shouldn't the skeletal enemies be breaking themselves against his body, then?

Originally posted by quanchi112
He was still powerful enough to kill the gods and was always powerful enough ever since he challenged them after part 1.

No, I never made that claim. My point was even at Kratos' strongest he didn't win because he was beyond ares he won because he fared better in combat.


Who has failed to cut Kratos? I mean seriously what games are you playing here. Can Kratos just stand there and let his enemies wail on him despite being far weaker with the lackluster weapons they have on them? Nah. The point is he has to be better in combat. You have no common sense whatsoever. You don't get how these characters are portrayed at all.

Yes, I have. He does have the spectral soul reaver you ignoramus. Kain has the physical soul reaver. Now what is raziiel revealed to be at the end of defiance to actually be? Wow. Such ignorance.

None of which is suggested to be due to Pandora's box. He also has to drain all his Godly powers into the BoO in GoW2 to combat the Colossus, so yeah. After that power drain, he's just like he was at the start of GoW 1.

Not really. The weaker enemies hurting Kratos is pretty much just a gameplay restriction. What actually happens in the cutscenes and the mini-games (those which Kratos typically wins) is considered canon, not gameplay.
You have Kratos struggling to lift doors in gameplay, whereas he can engage in, and win contests of strength, with guys who can lift the floor of a rather large arena, in canon.
It's as absurd as OoT Link failing to open a door (dunno if that was non-canon or not), yet he's able to toss a huge stone quite a large distance among other strength feats.
You really need to make the distinction between gameplay restrictions and canon before spouting off random bull-crap. Then again, please don't, it's much more lolzy that way.

Once again, how characters are portrayed is of little consequence in a fight here on KMC.
Let me walk you through it 'kay?
"In this corner, we have Duke Nukem. A badass mofo who shoves his foot up the asses of his enemies and defeats armies of aliens by himself. In the other corner, we have Bowser, a creature who has regularly been bested and made to look like a fool by a plumber who can jump high. Who'll win this epic brawl between the two?

Round 1: FIGHT!
WOOOOOAAAAH! Bowser WTFKO's Duke Nukem in one shot.
Yeah, that's how it would be in a KMC fight. The fact that you haven't realized the rules here on KMC after 3 years, shows me that you are the ignoramus, not me.

As is, you are completely ignorant of the word logic, and, equally ignorant of feats.
Whatever thread you debate in is pretty much guaranteed to go to pot, because you don't actually debate. Your modus operandi consists of stating your worthless biased opinion, and re-stating said biased opinion in response to any logical arguments that are made in opposition to your opinion. All while acting like you have won the debate. Debates here need proof and logical arguments, and you fall terribly short in both categories.

The Soul Reaver is the Blood Reaver + Raziel's Soul. Raziel doesn't carry around the Blood Reaver, he only carries around the 'Raziel's Soul' part, which is the Spectral/Material Reaver.
Kain used to carry the Soul Reaver, but after his altercation with Raziel in SR1, he lost the Soul Reaver. Raziel was left with the Wraith Blade, which is Raziel's soul itself, not the Soul Reaver. At the end of Defiance, Raziel merged his Wraith Blade (Raziel's Soul) with Kain's Blood Reaver to give Kain the Soul Reaver. Geddit?
It's like saying Hydrogen (H2) is Water (H2O), despite it being otherwise.

Wow. Such incredible stupidity. Then again, why am I surprised? You are, after all, a rabid troll with a huge ego and a severe lack of intelligence & understanding.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix

Once again, how characters are portrayed is of little consequence in a fight here on KMC.
Let me walk you through it 'kay?
"In this corner, we have Duke Nukem. A badass mofo who shoves his foot up the asses of his enemies and defeats armies of aliens by himself. In the other corner, we have Bowser, a creature who has regularly been bested and made to look like a fool by a plumber who can jump high. Who'll win this epic brawl between the two?

Round 1: FIGHT!
WOOOOOAAAAH! Bowser WTFKO's Duke Nukem in one shot.
Yeah, that's how it would be in a KMC fight.

That's a KMC Nintendo wanked fight. In a real KMC fight, Duke Nukem fires a charged Pulse Cannon shot and vaporizes Bowser's ass.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
That's a KMC Nintendo wanked fight. In a real KMC fight, Duke Nukem fires a charged Pulse Cannon shot and vaporizes Bowser's ass.

Dude, I made it a boxing match

EDIT: My bad for not stating it explicitly.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
None of which is suggested to be due to Pandora's box. He also has to drain all his Godly powers into the BoO in GoW2 to combat the Colossus, so yeah. After that power drain, he's just like he was at the start of GoW 1.

Not really. The weaker enemies hurting Kratos is pretty much just a gameplay restriction. What actually happens in the cutscenes and the mini-games (those which Kratos typically wins) is considered canon, not gameplay.
You have Kratos struggling to lift doors in gameplay, whereas he can engage in, and win contests of strength, with guys who can lift the floor of a rather large arena, in canon.
It's as absurd as OoT Link failing to open a door (dunno if that was non-canon or not), yet he's able to toss a huge stone quite a large distance among other strength feats.
You really need to make the distinction between gameplay restrictions and canon before spouting off random bull-crap. Then again, please don't, it's much more lolzy that way.

Once again, how characters are portrayed is of little consequence in a fight here on KMC.
Let me walk you through it 'kay?
"In this corner, we have Duke Nukem. A badass mofo who shoves his foot up the asses of his enemies and defeats armies of aliens by himself. In the other corner, we have Bowser, a creature who has regularly been bested and made to look like a fool by a plumber who can jump high. Who'll win this epic brawl between the two?

Round 1: FIGHT!
WOOOOOAAAAH! Bowser WTFKO's Duke Nukem in one shot.
Yeah, that's how it would be in a KMC fight. The fact that you haven't realized the rules here on KMC after 3 years, shows me that you are the ignoramus, not me.

As is, you are completely ignorant of the word logic, and, equally ignorant of feats.
Whatever thread you debate in is pretty much guaranteed to go to pot, because you don't actually debate. Your modus operandi consists of stating your worthless biased opinion, and re-stating said biased opinion in response to any logical arguments that are made in opposition to your opinion. All while acting like you have won the debate. Debates here need proof and logical arguments, and you fall terribly short in both categories.

The Soul Reaver is the Blood Reaver + Raziel's Soul. Raziel doesn't carry around the Blood Reaver, he only carries around the 'Raziel's Soul' part, which is the Spectral/Material Reaver.
Kain used to carry the Soul Reaver, but after his altercation with Raziel in SR1, he lost the Soul Reaver. Raziel was left with the Wraith Blade, which is Raziel's soul itself, not the Soul Reaver. At the end of Defiance, Raziel merged his Wraith Blade (Raziel's Soul) with Kain's Blood Reaver to give Kain the Soul Reaver. Geddit?
It's like saying Hydrogen (H2) is Water (H2O), despite it being otherwise.

Wow. Such incredible stupidity. Then again, why am I surprised? You are, after all, a rabid troll with a huge ego and a severe lack of intelligence & understanding. He regains power throughout the course of each game and becomes stronger. LOL. Did you play the games?

Yes, he wins due to his skills, etc. he can't just stand there and win by them not being able to hurt him. Use common sense please.


Dude, Raziel wielded the soul reaver just like Kain did. It wasn't a completely powerful soulreaver like at the end of the game where Kain won but it was the soulreaver nonetheless. The soulreaver was the only weapon that could kill Kain which he wielded. this is explained in the game you ignoramus. He ripped his heart out and as the scion of balance survived because the only way to kill him while wielding the soul reaver was raziel. Raziel had free will and wielding the only weapon capable of stopping Kain. Get a clue.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
That's a KMC Nintendo wanked fight. In a real KMC fight, Duke Nukem fires a charged Pulse Cannon shot and vaporizes Bowser's ass. youer an idfityo, bowser survies black hoels and sdhit.

OH SHI-


HE'S GOT SOME ALCOHOL IN THIS MOTHER!

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
youer an idfityo, bowser survies black hoels and sdhit.

TIOONM FIORECE~!!~~!~~!!

Originally posted by quanchi112
He regains power throughout the course of each game and becomes stronger. LOL. Did you play the games?

Yes, he wins due to his skills, etc. he can't just stand there and win by them not being able to hurt him. Use common sense please.


Dude, Raziel wielded the soul reaver just like Kain did. It wasn't a completely powerful soulreaver like at the end of the game where Kain won but it was the soulreaver nonetheless. The soulreaver was the only weapon that could kill Kain which he wielded. this is explained in the game you ignoramus. He ripped his heart out and as the scion of balance survived because the only way to kill him while wielding the soul reaver was raziel. Raziel had free will and wielding the only weapon capable of stopping Kain. Get a clue.

He doesn't regain his old power (fueled by the Gods/PB). He gains new powers (fueled by the Titans). LOLZZ. Did you even understand the games?

Yes, he wins due to his feats of durability, etc. He can stand there and win by them not being able to hurt him (at least until you prove he can hurt Kratos via strength feats). Use common sense plox. Or better yet, use logic plox.

Raziel wields the Wraith Blade, which is a lot like the Soul Reaver, except that it is an energy weapon that lacks the (Blood) Reaver part.
Kain wielded the Blood Reaver, and then the Soul Reaver. Notice the names of the Reavers? None of Raziel's enhancements, not even the most powerful one, is referred to as the Soul Reaver. It is called the Wraith Blade as a whole, or SPIRIT Reaver.
Once Raziel sacrifices himself, Kain gets the SOUL Reaver.

Refer to the Water-Hydrogen analogy, ignoramus.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
He doesn't regain his old power (fueled by the Gods/PB). He gains new powers (fueled by the Titans). LOLZZ. Did you even understand the games?

Yes, he wins due to his feats of durability, etc. He can stand there and win by them not being able to hurt him (at least until you prove he can hurt Kratos via strength feats). Use common sense plox. Or better yet, use logic plox.

Raziel wields the Wraith Blade, which is a lot like the Soul Reaver, except that it is an energy weapon that lacks the (Blood) Reaver part.
Kain wielded the Blood Reaver, and then the Soul Reaver. Notice the names of the Reavers? None of Raziel's enhancements, not even the most powerful one, is referred to as the Soul Reaver. It is called the Wraith Blade as a whole, or SPIRIT Reaver.
Once Raziel sacrifices himself, Kain gets the SOUL Reaver.

Refer to the Water-Hydrogen analogy, ignoramus. I said he regains power not the gods power he gets stronger through whatever means his allies are helping him. I never said the gods are helping him out in each game. You just want to put words in my mouth since I am decimating you.

Kratos always has had to defeat them he's never been uncuttable, unhurtable, etc. You don't understand the character or the point of the games.

Raziel says he wields the only weapon that can kill him the soulreaver. He says it in avernus when those two are fighting. They both wield the reaver and when it's combined it becomes truly badass and powerful also showing him eg.

I mean seriously did you play these games?

I said that he was able to take on the Gods in GoW 3 without the aid of Pandora's box. You replied by saying he still had the power of Pandora's Box, to which I responded "No, he only had the power of Hope, which wasn't unlocked until the end."
You then said "he was always strong enough to take on the Gods after Part 1," to which I countered by saying that he drained his godly powers into the BoO, and therefore, couldn't have the power of the PB in GoW 2/3.
Realizing that you had lost the point, but having too much of an ego to acknowledge that you had lost the point, you jumped to saying "He regains power throughout the course of each game." You even know what the word 'regains' means? It means gaining back that which you had lost. Kratos lost the powers he had as a god/PB amp. He never gained them back.
Lulz. Me putting words in your mouth? Nahh. Most of the time you debate, you have no absolutely no idea just what it is you are talking about. I don't need to put words in your mouth to make you look like a fool.

The point of the GoW games is just like the point of the other games.
The point of the character is 'Awesome-power wielding dude goes on a bloody revenge filled quest to slaughter those that wronged him'
Again, when did I say he's always uncuttable? Please, point it out to me.
What I'm saying is that unless Raziel is actually strong enough to cut him (which I'm leaving to BT & BR as they have yet to respond on their calcs), he won't be able to cut Kratos. You have to prove that Raziel is strong enough with feats, not with statements like "Raziel has the baddest weapon in the LoK series, so he can cut Kratos."

Yes, they both wield the Reaver. One is the Blood Reaver, the other is the Wraith-Blade. Neither are the Soul Reaver, not in the strictest sense at least. While the Wraith Blade is technically the Soul Reaver because it's the Soul Devouring aspect of the Soul Reaver, it still is not the True Soul Reaver as it lacks the Blood Reaver part.
Also, my mistake, the Hydrogen-water analogy was wrong.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
I said that he was able to take on the Gods in GoW 3 without the aid of Pandora's box. You replied by saying he still had the power of Pandora's Box, to which I responded "No, he only had the power of Hope, which wasn't unlocked until the end."
You then said "he was always strong enough to take on the Gods after Part 1," to which I countered by saying that he drained his godly powers into the BoO, and therefore, couldn't have the power of the PB in GoW 2/3.
Realizing that you had lost the point, but having too much of an ego to acknowledge that you had lost the point, you jumped to saying "He regains power throughout the course of each game." You even know what the word 'regains' means? It means gaining back that which you had lost. Kratos lost the powers he had as a god/PB amp. He never gained them back.
Lulz. Me putting words in your mouth? Nahh. Most of the time you debate, you have no absolutely no idea just what it is you are talking about. I don't need to put words in your mouth to make you look like a fool.

The point of the GoW games is just like the point of the other games.
The point of the character is 'Awesome-power wielding dude goes on a bloody revenge filled quest to slaughter those that wronged him'
Again, when did I say he's always uncuttable? Please, point it out to me.
What I'm saying is that unless Raziel is actually strong enough to cut him (which I'm leaving to BT & BR as they have yet to respond on their calcs), he won't be able to cut Kratos. You have to prove that Raziel is strong enough with feats, not with statements like "Raziel has the baddest weapon in the LoK series, so he can cut Kratos."

Yes, they both wield the Reaver. One is the Blood Reaver, the other is the Wraith-Blade. Neither are the Soul Reaver, not in the strictest sense at least. While the Wraith Blade is technically the Soul Reaver because it's the Soul Devouring aspect of the Soul Reaver, it still is not the True Soul Reaver as it lacks the Blood Reaver part.
Also, my mistake, the Hydrogen-water analogy was wrong. He did have the power to take on the gods since athena gave him newer blades and he acquired other weapons throughout the game and since he had the bot he had sufficient weapons and the skills to kill all of them. Use your head.

I didn't lose any points you seem to forget in every single game you start out with a lot of energy and lose it in some fashion only to power yourself up throughout the course of the game with magic and weapons. Wow.


Since you don't think he's uncuttable you agree raziel can cut him. I never said Raziel wins my point was only if he hits him he bleeds. I think you are coming around nicely.


Oh now I see despite how he is portrayed you say I have to prove Raziel is strong enough to cut him????? No, I don't because throughout the game even lower level beings can cut him so it makes perfect sense that Raziel can do so as he actually has feats other than these lower grunts and has a more impressive weapon.



No, Raziel wields the soulreaver and so does Kain. One is material and one is in wraith form. This is the only weapon that can kill him. This is cited in the game. I still remember it from 7 years ago.

I like it when you admit you are wrong to me. It feels good.

BT I summon thee to answer the riddle of the Reaver~

That should do it.
And to clarify, in GoW2 after the Rhodes fight where his powers were taken, thats the Kratos we use in threads right?

What was the riddle? ive been playing Red dead redemption and have forgotten what was going on in here lol...

I thought we just used to latest of any character, when their at their peak. So GoW3 Kratos I assume. Not sure at what stage because it seems like he gets weakened at some stages like falls in the river styx or loses energy to the blade of Olmypus but starts doing feats greater than those seen previously afterwards.

These two on about who had the Soul Reaver first, or something like that.

Only asking as after he lost the powers at the start of GoW2 he had quite a few cuts around his body. Not knowing much about the first two games of if Kratos is any different I dont want to use it till its clarified.

Originally posted by BloodRain
These two on about who had the Soul Reaver first, or something like that.

Only asking as after he lost the powers at the start of GoW2 he had quite a few cuts around his body. Not knowing much about the first two games of if Kratos is any different I dont want to use it till its clarified.

Kain had the blood reaver in the beginning of Defiance, its only the soul reaver when Raziel is imprisoned inside it at the end of the game. Raziel wields the wraith blade which is his spirit, or esentially the spirit of the reaver, their one and the same.

God of War 3 is the strongest Kratos by far, I think we only use Gow 1 or 2 Kratos if its specified in a thread.

Hope that settle that argument.

Yeah but is Kratos3 physically different from Kratos2 in that scene? Because if he's the same, he got lacerations from a bronze hand dropping on him.

He must be because Kratos 2 is weakened/damaged by the bronze hand but he had been recently weakened. He must have regained power from the Titans or the BoO by the end of the game, not sure how else he could have fought with Zeus and later other Gods/Titans in GoW 3.

Kratos from the end fight with Zeus in God of War 2 until Kratos falls down into the river styx is technically 'the same' Kratos.

Only after the River Styx part where you get weakened to base power does the 'God of War 3 Kratos' time period begin.

So Kratos3 wouldn't get the cuts like in that scene? Shame, was sounding too easy as well.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He did have the power to take on the gods since athena gave him newer blades and he acquired other weapons throughout the game and since he had the bot he had sufficient weapons and the skills to kill all of them. Use your head.

I didn't lose any points you seem to forget in every single game you start out with a lot of energy and lose it in some fashion only to power yourself up throughout the course of the game with magic and weapons. Wow.

Since you don't think he's uncuttable you agree raziel can cut him. I never said Raziel wins my point was only if he hits him he bleeds. I think you are coming around nicely.

Oh now I see despite how he is portrayed you say I have to prove Raziel is strong enough to cut him????? No, I don't because throughout the game even lower level beings can cut him so it makes perfect sense that Raziel can do so as he actually has feats other than these lower grunts and has a more impressive weapon.

No, Raziel wields the soulreaver and so does Kain. One is material and one is in wraith form. This is the only weapon that can kill him. This is cited in the game. I still remember it from 7 years ago.

I like it when you admit you are wrong to me. It feels good.

See, Quanchi changes his original point once again . First you say he had the PB powers all throughout Part 2 & 3. Then after I pwn you repeatedly, you finally switch your statement to "he gains powers throughout the games," in order to look like you've won.
Give it a rest and let's move on, I've already spanked your ass here.

You don't start out with "a lot of energy" in every game, you moronic fool. CoO & GoW do not start out in the same fashion as GoW 2 & 3 do. Once again, you fail. doped
GoW 2 involves Kratos losing his Godly Powers and then gaining powers from the Titans, while GoW 3 involves Kratos losing those powers, and gaining new powers from variable sources.

Also, you lost every point. You said he regains powers. Clearly not the case.

No, I don't think he's uncuttable against anyone who is about as strong as Zeus/Ares/Hercules. Raziel isn't one of them, as far as I know. Read slowly next time. Or better yet, use a dictionary.

Portrayals have nothing whatsoever to do with how powerful characters are on KMC. Or else Duke Nukem would beat the likes of Bowser in a fist-fight, and Wander would beat Vergil in a sword fight. Try again portrayal-boy.

Lulz lulz lulz. The Reaver (and it's derivatives) is the only weapon that can kill Kain. Kain never even mentions the word 'Soul Reaver' in their fight, and there was no need to.
There's a big difference between the Reaver & the Soul Reaver. The simple fact that you haven't realized this is proof enough that you don't just pay attention to the games, but also conjure up your own version of the games.
Then there's the fact that Kain only wields the Soul Reaver once after he breaks it over Raziel's head in SR.
Yeah, he gets the Soul Reaver near the end when Raziel willingly enters the Blood Reaver. Until that point, he only wielded the normal Reaver after saving Raziel from his fate.

Good to know. Now you know that other people aren't as mentally deficient and egoistical as you.

Originally posted by Burning thought
He must be because Kratos 2 is weakened/damaged by the bronze hand but he had been recently weakened. He must have regained power from the Titans or the BoO by the end of the game, not sure how else he could have fought with Zeus and later other Gods/Titans in GoW 3.

He never regains power from the BoO, but he does wield the BoO. Like CC said, he's essentially GoW 2 Kratos until he falls into the Styx; minus the Amulet of the Fates (which would have no place on Mt. Olympus), and his sub-weapons and magics (gameplay-only, unless Kratos somehow dumped the weapons and forgot his magics before traveling to Mt. Olympus).
GoW 2 Kratos is powerful enough to best Zeus when he's human-sized, and powerful enough to go head to head with Poseidon.

Originally posted by BloodRain
These two on about who had the Soul Reaver first, or something like that.

Only asking as after he lost the powers at the start of GoW2 he had quite a few cuts around his body. Not knowing much about the first two games of if Kratos is any different I dont want to use it till its clarified.

Actually, it's whether Raziel holds the Soul Reaver or not. Quanchi stated that both Kain and Raziel did. In the strictest sense, only Kain holds the Soul Reaver, which is before he breaks it over Raziel in Soul Reaver, and after Raziel willingly enters the Blood Reaver in Defiance.

I think he only gets those cuts after the Colossus' falling hand smashes him, which was long after he placed his remaining low amount of Godly powers into the Blade.
Yeah, they are technically different.

Afaik:

CoO Kratos is GoW 1 Kratos, with the exception of the magics and weapons both versions gained. CoO Kratos loses the weapons and magics he gained after killing Persephone and restoring the Sun.

GoW 1 Kratos receives the PB amp near the end of his servitude to the gods. He then bests Ares, and ascends to Mt. Olympus to become a god.
NOTE: Hard to say if currently, he is the God Kratos shown in GoW 2, since it's possible he loses his powers again. The new game Ghost of Sparta should probably clear this up. It'll probably include Kratos losing most of the powers he gained during GoW 1, and then gaining new powers that will form the base of his powers as God Kratos.

GoW 2 Kratos is initially the God of War. After draining his godly powers into the BoO, he becomes mortal. GoW 2 Kratos then gains new powers with the help of the Titans. He then takes the BoO from Zeus, and after their skirmish, heads to Mt. Olympus and kills Poseidon. He then loses everything he gained in 2 after his swim in the River Styx.

GoW 3 Kratos begins from this point onwards.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Kain had the blood reaver in the beginning of Defiance, its only the soul reaver when Raziel is imprisoned inside it at the end of the game. Raziel wields the wraith blade which is his spirit, or esentially the spirit of the reaver, their one and the same.


Pretty much. Kain loses the Soul Reaver he had when he breaks it over Raziel in SR. He then saves Raziel from his fate in SR2, and he gets the Blood Reaver, which is the version of the Reaver he carries until the climax of Defiance (Raziel entering the blade to give him the Soul Reaver).
The wraith blade could technically be the Soul Reaver, since the Wraith Blade is essentially what gives the Soul Reaver its characteristic power. However, it isn't the True Soul Reaver, since the crucial Blood Reaver part is missing.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
See, Quanchi changes his original point once again . First you say he had the PB powers all throughout Part 2 & 3. Then after I pwn you repeatedly, you finally switch your statement to "he gains powers throughout the games," in order to look like you've won.
Give it a rest and let's move on, I've already spanked your ass here.

You don't start out with "a lot of energy" in every game, you moronic fool. CoO & GoW do not start out in the same fashion as GoW 2 & 3 do. Once again, you fail. doped
GoW 2 involves Kratos losing his Godly Powers and then gaining powers from the Titans, while GoW 3 involves Kratos losing those powers, and gaining new powers from variable sources.

Also, you lost every point. You said he regains powers. Clearly not the case.

No, I don't think he's uncuttable against anyone who is about as strong as Zeus/Ares/Hercules. Raziel isn't one of them, as far as I know. Read slowly next time. Or better yet, use a dictionary.

Portrayals have nothing whatsoever to do with how powerful characters are on KMC. Or else Duke Nukem would beat the likes of Bowser in a fist-fight, and Wander would beat Vergil in a sword fight. Try again portrayal-boy.

Lulz lulz lulz. The Reaver (and it's derivatives) is the only weapon that can kill Kain. Kain never even mentions the word 'Soul Reaver' in their fight, and there was no need to.
There's a big difference between the Reaver & the Soul Reaver. The simple fact that you haven't realized this is proof enough that you don't just pay attention to the games, but also conjure up your own version of the games.
Then there's the fact that Kain only wields the Soul Reaver once after he breaks it over Raziel's head in SR.
Yeah, he gets the Soul Reaver near the end when Raziel willingly enters the Blood Reaver. Until that point, he only wielded the normal Reaver after saving Raziel from his fate.

Good to know. Now you know that other people aren't as mentally deficient and egoistical as you. No, I was correct the whole time and have changed nothing. He powers himself up throughout each game after being weakened in the beginning of each game. He wasn't a big strong uber badass at the end of part 1 but he didn't need to be to beat these foes anymore.

In 2 and 3 you do. That's my point he gains power and then loses it in the next one when he gets wrecked like he normally does.

Thanks for restating what I just told you and trying to take credit for it.


Kratos isn't uncuttable to any of the bosses or the massive troops who take him on with no feats at all. He ca be killed if you just stand there because he's very cuttable and guess what Raziel cuts him.

Both wielded the soul reaver but not at it's optimum levels or at it's strongest. It needed to be imbued and combined to be at it's best but both did wield the soul reaver.

You saying Raziel just wields some wraith blade shows how ignorant you are. It was the only weapon capable of killing him and you act like oh it's just some worthless weapon. I am right you are wrong. Admit it again.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Actually, it's whether Raziel holds the Soul Reaver or not. Quanchi stated that both Kain and Raziel did. In the strictest sense, only Kain holds the Soul Reaver, which is before he breaks it over Raziel in Soul Reaver, and after Raziel willingly enters the Blood Reaver in Defiance.



Pretty much. Kain loses the Soul Reaver he had when he breaks it over Raziel in SR. He then saves Raziel from his fate in SR2, and he gets the Blood Reaver, which is the version of the Reaver he carries until the climax of Defiance (Raziel entering the blade to give him the Soul Reaver).
The wraith blade could technically be the Soul Reaver, since the Wraith Blade is essentially what gives the Soul Reaver its characteristic power. However, it isn't the True Soul Reaver, since the crucial Blood Reaver part is missing.



Arguable, the wraith blade by itself cannot harm the EG yet Kain required the Raziels soul to harm the EG so their souls combined with the swords vampire enhancements must act as a catalyst.

So that's a yes on his durability being higher then from when he got the cuts?

Besides the cutability, im still trying to figure out what the hell you two are arguing about and the relevance.

Its up in the air, as you said before Centaurs can impale Kratos in those context modes....

yet Cronos cannot crush him, perhaps Kratos strength is at the extent where he can repel almost 100% of Cronos' force or something? not sure...

Originally posted by BloodRain
So that's a yes on his durability being higher then from when he got the cuts?

Besides the cutability, im still trying to figure out what the hell you two are arguing about and the relevance. I am saying if Raziel hits him he bleeds.

Cronos crushing him is based off more strength resisting then durability, and we already know he's strong enough to hold the hand up.
Originally posted by quanchi112
I am saying if Raziel hits him he bleeds.
All those points being made just to say that?

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, I was correct the whole time and have changed nothing. He powers himself up throughout each game after being weakened in the beginning of each game. He wasn't a big strong uber badass at the end of part 1 but he didn't need to be to beat these foes anymore.

In 2 and 3 you do. That's my point he gains power and then loses it in the next one when he gets wrecked like he normally does.

Thanks for restating what I just told you and trying to take credit for it.

Kratos isn't uncuttable to any of the bosses or the massive troops who take him on with no feats at all. He ca be killed if you just stand there because he's very cuttable and guess what Raziel cuts him.

Both wielded the soul reaver but not at it's optimum levels or at it's strongest. It needed to be imbued and combined to be at it's best but both did wield the soul reaver.

You saying Raziel just wields some wraith blade shows how ignorant you are. It was the only weapon capable of killing him and you act like oh it's just some worthless weapon. I am right you are wrong. Admit it again.

You've changed your points so much you have no idea you've changed them in the first place.
First you tell me that Kratos had the power of the PB in 2 & 3. Then you tell me that he was always strong enough to kill the Gods after God of War 1. Then you tell me that he loses his powers and regains them back, and now you're telling me that he loses his powers and then becomes stronger.
drylaugh

Not really. I clearly stated what was the actual case, whereas you stated what was the case in only two of the games, but not the case in the other two. Try to think a little before you type something. Or simpler still; proof-read, and use the EDIT button.

By massive troops I assume you mean the weaker fodder enemies? Yeah, that's just in gameplay i.e. a gameplay restriction/limitation. Try again.

Bosses, sure. Is Raziel nearly as the strong (strength) as the gods though? You keep side-stepping the question, and bringing up laem bull-crap like "oh he's portrayed as someone who can beat tonnes of enemies." Won't work here.

WAT? The Reaver is never called the Soul Reaver, not unless it has Raziel inside it. There is no lower level to the actual Soul Reaver, at least none that would still make us call it the Soul Reaver. If the Soul Reaver lacks Raziel's soul, it is the Blood Reaver, which is remarkably different from the Soul Reaver. Are you really this obtuse?
The Wraith Blade can be considered the Soul Reaver, but it lacks the Blood Reaver part, which is why it isn't the actual Soul Reaver.

The hell? "some wraith blade?" The Wraith Blade is the actual name of his weapon you fool.
It is a form of the Reaver (which is why it can kill Kain), and is nearly identical to the actual Soul Reaver, but it still isn't the actual Soul Reaver. BT said the same thing.

When did I act like it's some worthless weapon? You resorting to such childish arguments shows me how desperate you are. Grow up, and try to actually make an argument.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Arguable, the wraith blade by itself cannot harm the EG yet Kain required the Raziels soul to harm the EG so their souls combined with the swords vampire enhancements must act as a catalyst.

True.
However, while it could be possible that Raziel's Spirit Reaver could harm the EG, I doubt he could actually defeat the EG. Besides, it was Kain's destiny to defeat the EG, so yeah, I agree with you.

That said, you agree that Raziel does not wield the actual Soul Reaver?

Originally posted by BloodRain
So that's a yes on his durability being higher then from when he got the cuts?

Besides the cutability, im still trying to figure out what the hell you two are arguing about and the relevance.

Pretty much. The centaur thing is non-canon. As for weaker enemies, it is much like weak enemies actually hurting Dante, Vergil & Nero in gameplay.
My only problem with the Centaur scenario is that Kratos does not have a wound after the stab. Couple that with the fact that he does not possess regeneration in his mortal form afaik. Unless he actually possesses insta-regeneration, I say that the centaur thing is non-canon.

This is not even a debate. quanchi112 can never debate because he simply does not know how to debate. He states opinions and his own thoughts as an argument (e.g. Reaver hurting Kratos because it's the baddest weapon in the LOK series).
Rarely ever does he provide proof, and when he does, it is always accompanied by a severely biased statement.
Nearly everyone who debates against him is convinced he is a biased troll, mentally deficient, or both.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Its up in the air, as you said before Centaurs can impale Kratos in those context modes....

yet Cronos cannot crush him, perhaps Kratos strength is at the extent where he can repel almost 100% of Cronos' force or something? not sure...

Make sense of this for me, nevermind, you won't be able to.

You can't have the strength to do something without having the requisite durability. Kratos cannot stop Cronos' palm smash without first being durable enough to withstand the stress to some degree. And he did not stop the force 100% as Cronos' palms were completely closed minus the little bubble where Kratos was on his knees.

The centaurs are once, more, gameplay. You aren't even SUPPOSED to get impaled by them, you are supposed to stop it before it happens, (if they even successfully manage to initate it at all). That's ideally how all the QTEs are supposed to go; successfully. Would Kratos have regeneration then too if you do get stabbed?

16TE49oiP8g
start to 00:14. That is as canon as you will get regarding Kratos' durability to piercing.

Bloodrain, and yourself will fail continuously, try as you might, to interpret the scene as differently as possible to whats going on.

The Leviathan hits kratos in the torso with the point of its leg, the impact of which knocks Kratos down to his knees. Kratos then pushes back up against the force.

He did NOT stop the intial force 100% because one, it knocks him to his knees. two, the leviathans are shown strong enough and heavy enough to completely stop a PUNCH from a multimillion ton titan in Gaia. three, he grabbed past the point of the leg, so he didn't stop the point of the leg from hitting him.

This is a strength/durability feat equal to above even pushing up Cronos' palm smash, because its a similar level of force, shrunk down to the area of the point of the leviathan's leg.

I sniped you with the Centaur thing, CC. 131
I mean, sure I used a different approach, but it works just as well.

~ What happened to the sig link I gave you? Decided not to use it?

Oh I agree about the weaker enemies hurting being only gameplay, but not on the Centaur thing. Its a scripted QTE, so whether it did or did not happen the point is that's its possible for him to get stabbed. Similar to Spiderman 2, a high grunt with a bayonet/grenade launcher has an animation where he stabs Spidey in the gut, but he's fine after even with no regen. Imo its the health bar, if it actually happened then they'ed be in trouble but it can happen.

Have the urge to debate him and see what all the fuss is about `-`Now to find something we disagree on.

CC bro, already replied to the crab leg post that was left un-answered on your behalf.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Oh I agree about the weaker enemies hurting being only gameplay, but not on the Centaur thing. Its a scripted QTE, so whether it did or did not happen the point is that's its possible for him to get stabbed. Similar to Spiderman 2, a high grunt with a bayonet/grenade launcher has an animation where he stabs Spidey in the gut, but he's fine after even with no regen. Imo its the health bar, if it actually happened then they'ed be in trouble but it can happen.

Have the urge to debate him and see what all the fuss is about `-`Now to find something we disagree on.

CC bro, already replied to the crab leg post that was left un-answered on your behalf.

The thing is that there are a lot of things that can happen but don't actually happen. One case being the various endings of most fighting games. Typically, only one or two are canon, while the rest aren't. Typically, a lot of the non-canon endings have feats, that due to the endings being non-canon, are non-canon as well. Which is why we don't use those non-canon endings when discussing characters.
While the scenario isn't the same, the underlying principle is. Whatever is non-canon never happened, and thus, cannot be considered possible. Not unless the OP states as such.

Then there's the fact that Kratos is considered to have 'won' each and every QTE he takes part in. If he fails certain QTE's, typically, he just gets repelled or thrown onto the ground, and has to start the whole thing over again, even if during the QTE, he stabbed something repeatedly (wounds disappear after the failed QTE, then reappear during the next QTE and so on).

But, for argument's sake, let's say that he can get stabbed by the Centaur. Even then, he's perfectly fine after the whole ordeal, aside from a dip in the Health Bar, which is just a gameplay restriction.

Shall I make a DMC Dante (Rebellion only) vs. DI Dante (Scythe only) thread?

I still agree with Bloodrain on this, its scripted, its just as scripted as anything else in the cutscenes or otherwise. Something does not have to be canon to be relevant, although its not canon that a Centaur impaled Kratos, the developers have seen it fit to animate a centaur impaling Kratos.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix


True.
However, while it could be possible that Raziel's Spirit Reaver could harm the EG, I doubt he could actually defeat the EG. Besides, it was Kain's destiny to defeat the EG, so yeah, I agree with you.

That said, you agree that Raziel does not wield the actual Soul Reaver?



Well he could not strike the EG, he attempted in Defiance and it did nothing.

No he does not, he wields the wraith blade. I can see how it can be confused as being called the "soul reaver", but the actual "soul reaver" is the completed sword that Kain wields at the end of Defiance, Blood omen 2 and SR 1.

BT given what I was going to say. Even if it didnt happen its something that is certainly able to happen. On that non-canon ending, if A gets mad and beats B then even if it didnt happen we can take that A can beat B if the situation arises.

And Kratos loses a large chunk of life from the attack, much more then other attacks.

Lol Dante vs Dante? I say spite but then again him vs Kratos lasted as long as it has.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I still agree with Bloodrain on this, its scripted, its just as scripted as anything else in the cutscenes or otherwise. Something does not have to be canon to be relevant, although its not canon that a Centaur impaled Kratos, the developers have seen it fit to animate a centaur impaling Kratos.



Well he could not strike the EG, he attempted in Defiance and it did nothing.

No he does not, he wields the wraith blade. I can see how it can be confused as being called the "soul reaver", but the actual "soul reaver" is the completed sword that Kain wields at the end of Defiance, Blood omen 2 and SR 1.

Did he attempt to strike the EG with the Spirit Reaver though? Meh, maybe it's only the Soul Reaver that possesses the ability to hurt metaphysical beings like the EG.

Yep.

Originally posted by BloodRain
BT given what I was going to say. Even if it didnt happen its something that is certainly able to happen. On that non-canon ending, if A gets mad and beats B then even if it didnt happen we can take that A can beat B if the situation arises.

And Kratos loses a large chunk of life from the attack, much more then other attacks.

Lol Dante vs Dante? I say spite but then again him vs Kratos lasted as long as it has.

Fair enough. You both have a point, concerning the relevancy. Even if I argued about that, we wouldn't get anywhere X-D

Even then, non-canon i.e. failed QTEs in GOW make no sense at times.
Centaurs in GoW actually get their legs back instantly if we fail the QTE. I mean, do we take that as possible despite those centaurs demonstrating no regeneration whatsoever outside that particular instance? Then there are wounds which just disappear and what not after failed QTEs.
Attribute it to lazy designing, but the whole failed QTEs angle makes little sense at times.

That aside, the entire Centaur thing is also a little hazy IMO, considering:
a) Kratos has resisted stuff like the Leviathan's leg, which is still a feat. It's both a strength & durability feat. Then there's the PSI from the Cronos feat.
The only way to explain the Centaur impaling Kratos is if the Centaur is actually very strong, or the weapon is highly enchanted. Only the former can be argued for though, while the latter is just a possibility.
b) He's fine after the entire ordeal, considering the large wound such a stab should leave behind. This is as stupid as the Centaurs in GoW 'regrowing' their legs after the failed QTE, considering neither the Centaurs, nor Kratos (outside of the Hades Arms cutscene in GoW 2) demonstrate regeneration.

As for the large chunk of life bit, it's just tied to the difficulty and relative strength of the Centaur vs. other weak fodder enemies. A leg slam from Scorpius can actually OHKO Kratos on Chaos mode if it connects.

What else can you expect when we have loads of long-lasting threads that really shouldn't be long-lasting? srug
TIK - This is KMC

^Physics at work.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Did he attempt to strike the EG with the Spirit Reaver though? Meh, maybe it's only the Soul Reaver that possesses the ability to hurt metaphysical beings like the EG.

Yep.



Yes I think he did, it was near the very end of the game, he had the purified final version.

Centaurs regrowing their legs is not as scripted as the animation that has Kratos hacking them off or being impaled. And the event that caused the ripping off of the leg is scripted, but failing it is not.

I think theres more happening in the Cronos scene than can be described with just "strength" vs "weight" arguments, Kratos is so light that having thousands if not tens of thousands of tonnes falling on your body cannot be spoken for, what about the friction of such a force? and Kratos' friction, surely he would have been pushed through Cronos' hands sideways like trying to grab soap.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix

IMO legs coming back is a gameplay thing. Without legs the beast is useless and would make it not important if you failed the QTE or not, that and its off a basic enemy so it does that to make it a challenge instead of having a legless creature bleeding to death.

Made a post about the Leviathan thing, no idea where it is though. 'b' goes to the Spiderman getting gutted and living thing.
Its normal hits arnt that threatening, well not that far from lower creatures attacks, but not that one attack.

If ya did make it I'll just have to hope the bait is taken

Kratos' weight is not the only source of friction in this scenario, Cronos' strength pushing against him generates more frcition than Kratos' weight ever could.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
You've changed your points so much you have no idea you've changed them in the first place.
First you tell me that Kratos had the power of the PB in 2 & 3. Then you tell me that he was always strong enough to kill the Gods after God of War 1. Then you tell me that he loses his powers and regains them back, and now you're telling me that he loses his powers and then becomes stronger.
drylaugh

Not really. I clearly stated what was the actual case, whereas you stated what was the case in only two of the games, but not the case in the other two. Try to think a little before you type something. Or simpler still; proof-read, and use the EDIT button.

By massive troops I assume you mean the weaker fodder enemies? Yeah, that's just in gameplay i.e. a gameplay restriction/limitation. Try again.

Bosses, sure. Is Raziel nearly as the strong (strength) as the gods though? You keep side-stepping the question, and bringing up laem bull-crap like "oh he's portrayed as someone who can beat tonnes of enemies." Won't work here.

WAT? The Reaver is never called the Soul Reaver, not unless it has Raziel inside it. There is no lower level to the actual Soul Reaver, at least none that would still make us call it the Soul Reaver. If the Soul Reaver lacks Raziel's soul, it is the Blood Reaver, which is remarkably different from the Soul Reaver. Are you really this obtuse?
The Wraith Blade can be considered the Soul Reaver, but it lacks the Blood Reaver part, which is why it isn't the actual Soul Reaver.

The hell? "some wraith blade?" The Wraith Blade is the actual name of his weapon you fool.
It is a form of the Reaver (which is why it can kill Kain), and is nearly identical to the actual Soul Reaver, but it still isn't the actual Soul Reaver. BT said the same thing.

When did I act like it's some worthless weapon? You resorting to such childish arguments shows me how desperate you are. Grow up, and try to actually make an argument.



True.
However, while it could be possible that Raziel's Spirit Reaver could harm the EG, I doubt he could actually defeat the EG. Besides, it was Kain's destiny to defeat the EG, so yeah, I agree with you.

That said, you agree that Raziel does not wield the actual Soul Reaver?



Pretty much. The centaur thing is non-canon. As for weaker enemies, it is much like weak enemies actually hurting Dante, Vergil & Nero in gameplay.
My only problem with the Centaur scenario is that Kratos does not have a wound after the stab. Couple that with the fact that he does not possess regeneration in his mortal form afaik. Unless he actually possesses insta-regeneration, I say that the centaur thing is non-canon.

This is not even a debate. quanchi112 can never debate because he simply does not know how to debate. He states opinions and his own thoughts as an argument (e.g. Reaver hurting Kratos because it's the baddest weapon in the LOK series).
Rarely ever does he provide proof, and when he does, it is always accompanied by a severely biased statement.
Nearly everyone who debates against him is convinced he is a biased troll, mentally deficient, or both. I stated even though he lost his immense size he always from then on had the power to kill the gods at the game progresses as he gets stronger as each game progresses. Think next time mccfly.


In all three games does he get more powerful enough at the beginning of the following game does he lose it. This is again me simply stating a fact which you seem incapable of understanding.


So the game is setting you to to believe these characters can't hurt or damage him? You don't get how these games or characters are portrayed and will instead take a few feats and dismiss 99 percent of all other situations the characters are in to spin it your way. Busiek and myself deal with your kind all the time.


Both are soulreavers in a sense and when combined it is truly the soulreaver at it's most powerful. Rziel is the essence of the sword and yet you tried saying he didn't wield the reaver. Raziel wielded the only weapon that can kill Kain when he wields the soulreaver. Kain isn't unkillable in the game unless he has the sword. Think mccfly.

No, Bt said you were wrong and you are. It is the soulreaver not a combined soulreaver at it's most powerful. You're wrong all the time.

Kratos cannot be cut by anything because we all know that Theseus's spear and Perseus's sword only bounced off his skin

Originally posted by quanchi112
I stated even though he lost his immense size he always from then on had the power to kill the gods at the game progresses as he gets stronger as each game progresses. Think next time mccfly.

In all three games does he get more powerful enough at the beginning of the following game does he lose it. This is again me simply stating a fact which you seem incapable of understanding.

So the game is setting you to to believe these characters can't hurt or damage him? You don't get how these games or characters are portrayed and will instead take a few feats and dismiss 99 percent of all other situations the characters are in to spin it your way. Busiek and myself deal with your kind all the time.

Both are soulreavers in a sense and when combined it is truly the soulreaver at it's most powerful. Rziel is the essence of the sword and yet you tried saying he didn't wield the reaver. Raziel wielded the only weapon that can kill Kain when he wields the soulreaver. Kain isn't unkillable in the game unless he has the sword. Think mccfly.

No, Bt said you were wrong and you are. It is the soulreaver not a combined soulreaver at it's most powerful. You're wrong all the time.

a) You never said anything about size.
b) What you are stating here is remarkably different from what you first stated, which was that he had the power of the Box throughout the 2nd and third game.

Okay, so let me get this straight. First it's "in every single game you start out with a lot of energy and lose it in some fashion only to power yourself up throughout the course of the game with magic and weapons."
Then you move onto "In 2 and 3 you do." after I point out the stupidity in that point.
Now your point is saddled with language that is nearly incomprehensible. Seriously, how are you not in a padded cell yet?

The only reason I am "incapable" of understanding these facts (which I am perfectly aware of) is because what you previously stated makes no sense at all. Yes, Kratos loses his powers in the beginning of 2 & 3, but that is not what you first stated. Keep denying it, it only adds more points to the notion that you're mentally deficient.

This isn't comic-dom where feats are both low-end & high-end ones and are casually strewn all over the place. This is a different medium. With a character like Kratos, or Dante (DMC), his feats typically get better as time passes. You acting like previous incidents are still relevant is completely lulzy. Only a fool such as yourself would believe that feat-related events in GoW 1 would be relevant to GoW 3 Kratos, even though GoW 3 Kratos largely eclipses GoW 1 Kratos.

Right, because you are in the same league as Busiek. You don't have the mental capabilities to be a writer like Busiek. Hell, I doubt you have the capabilities to be a fiction writer in the first place. Instead, you have the mental capabilities to be a failed director like Uwe Boll. Even though I'm sure Boll is nowhere near as idiotic as you are.

Lulz. First I was just insulting you, but now I'm actually convinced you are mentally deficient.
Where was BT saying I am wrong about the Soul Reaver?

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
That said, you agree that Raziel does not wield the actual Soul Reaver?

Originally posted by Burning thought
No he does not, he wields the wraith blade. I can see how it can be confused as being called the "soul reaver", but the actual "soul reaver" is the completed sword that Kain wields at the end of Defiance, Blood omen 2 and SR 1.

This isn't him saying I am wrong.
He's actually agreeing with me here, and he's far more knowledgeable about the LoK series than yourself.

Oh wait, you probably think that agreeing = disagreeing. Or do you not understand an answer unless someone says 'No' or 'Yes'? Yeah, that's probably it, given your level of intelligence.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Yes I think he did, it was near the very end of the game, he had the purified final version.

Centaurs regrowing their legs is not as scripted as the animation that has Kratos hacking them off or being impaled. And the event that caused the ripping off of the leg is scripted, but failing it is not.


I'll check out the cutscene. If it's the one right when Moebius is killed by Kain, then no, he doesn't actually strike EG with the Spirit Reaver.

They don't regrow their legs actually. My bad. They just instantly get them back. I think it's right when Kratos is thrown back, which is included in the whole scripting.

Originally posted by BloodRain
IMO legs coming back is a gameplay thing. Without legs the beast is useless and would make it not important if you failed the QTE or not, that and its off a basic enemy so it does that to make it a challenge instead of having a legless creature bleeding to death.

Made a post about the Leviathan thing, no idea where it is though. 'b' goes to the Spiderman getting gutted and living thing.
Its normal hits arnt that threatening, well not that far from lower creatures attacks, but not that one attack.

If ya did make it I'll just have to hope the bait is taken

The legs coming back is still a result of the whole failed QTE though, as are actual wounds disappearing and what not. Then Kratos has to cause the actual wound again.
That's why I think the whole failed QTE angle is a little hazy and shouldn't be taken seriously. IMO It's just there because they had to include another scenario that happens should the player fails a QTE, and most of the time, it makes no sense. Somewhat like joke moves.

The Leviathan thing is still a durability feat as he takes the hit. I don't know if the leg could impale Kratos or not like CC says, but it's still a durability feat.
Meh.

b) Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that like an old game where such a thing would be really hard to program correctly? I don't recall such an instance happening in the Spider-man 2 movie game.
Sure, this is a strawman argument, but Kratos has been gutted before, and he somewhat resisted it (BoO), considering the circumstances. Even Zeus has survived being gutted, but whereas he is implied to possess regeneration, Kratos isn't.
Hell, this whole Centaur failed QTE thing can be attributed to gameplay >__>.

Doubt he'd do it after reading this thread though. Then again, he is mentally deficient and biased enough.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
Kratos cannot be cut by anything because we all know that Theseus's spear and Perseus's sword only bounced off his skin

Perseus just uses regular sword strikes that are like the sword strikes of the fodder enemies. I don't think he actually impales Kratos in a failed QTE.

Theseus on the other hand, can actually impale him in a failed QTE, much like the Centaur.

Also, I never said he's uncuttable, foo' estahuh

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
a) You never said anything about size.
b) What you are stating here is remarkably different from what you first stated, which was that he had the power of the Box throughout the 2nd and third game.

Okay, so let me get this straight. First it's "in every single game you start out with a lot of energy and lose it in some fashion only to power yourself up throughout the course of the game with magic and weapons."
Then you move onto "In 2 and 3 you do." after I point out the stupidity in that point.
Now your point is saddled with language that is nearly incomprehensible. Seriously, how are you not in a padded cell yet?

The only reason I am "incapable" of understanding these facts (which I am perfectly aware of) is because what you previously stated makes no sense at all. Yes, Kratos loses his powers in the beginning of 2 & 3, but that is not what you first stated. Keep denying it, it only adds more points to the notion that you're mentally deficient.

This isn't comic-dom where feats are both low-end & high-end ones and are casually strewn all over the place. This is a different medium. With a character like Kratos, or Dante (DMC), his feats typically get better as time passes. You acting like previous incidents are still relevant is completely lulzy. Only a fool such as yourself would believe that feat-related events in GoW 1 would be relevant to GoW 3 Kratos, even though GoW 3 Kratos largely eclipses GoW 1 Kratos.

Right, because you are in the same league as Busiek. You don't have the mental capabilities to be a writer like Busiek. Hell, I doubt you have the capabilities to be a fiction writer in the first place. Instead, you have the mental capabilities to be a failed director like Uwe Boll. Even though I'm sure Boll is nowhere near as idiotic as you are.

Lulz. First I was just insulting you, but now I'm actually convinced you are mentally deficient.
Where was BT saying I am wrong about the Soul Reaver?





This isn't him saying I am wrong.
He's actually agreeing with me here, and he's far more knowledgeable about the LoK series than yourself.

Oh wait, you probably think that agreeing = disagreeing. Or do you not understand an answer unless someone says 'No' or 'Yes'? Yeah, that's probably it, given your level of intelligence. 1.a) Why would I?

b.)He had the power needed to kill the gods and was built up in each game to do so. This is a fact.

When the opposition clings to personal insults it'd due to insecurity not debating. Try and stay on topic.


You denied he loses his energy after some traumatic event that takes place in both 2 and 3. It's you who can't accept reality and screams pis when you don't like something, huh?

Why aren't they relevant again? You pick and choose with each character what counts what doesn't count. It's impossible to debate with someone like yourself.


Busiek and I laugh at your kind. I put up the explanation because you are that spiderman fan who thinks he juggles buicks and that 90 percent of his appearances are pis.


Like I said raziel wields the soulreaver as does Kain. It becomes fully powered and completed at the end of the game. I was right and you were wrong.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix

Growing legs or not having a wound, both things don't happen during the QTE, they happen after making them part of gameplay not a QTE thing.

Last post, point 2. Its a strength feat.
Eh an '04 game, oldish. 2:50.
IMO what happens 'during' the QTE is a legit possibility, anything after is down to gameplay.

I'll get my chance one day 313

Originally posted by quanchi112
1.a) Why would I?



b.)He had the power needed to kill the gods and was built up in each game to do so. This is a fact.

When the opposition clings to personal insults it'd due to insecurity not debating. Try and stay on topic.

You denied he loses his energy after some traumatic event that takes place in both 2 and 3. It's you who can't accept reality and screams pis when you don't like something, huh?

Why aren't they relevant again? You pick and choose with each character what counts what doesn't count. It's impossible to debate with someone like yourself.

Busiek and I laugh at your kind. I put up the explanation because you are that spiderman fan who thinks he juggles buicks and that 90 percent of his appearances are pis.

Like I said raziel wields the soulreaver as does Kain. It becomes fully powered and completed at the end of the game. I was right and you were wrong.

a) facepalm2

"I stated even though he lost his immense size he always from then on had the power to kill the gods at the game progresses as he gets stronger as each game progresses..." implies that you had earlier mentioned his immense size. That is clearly not the case as I pointed out to you.
Secondly, once he drained his powers into the BoO (lost his immense size much earlier), he was not strong enough to challenge Zeus and the other gods, despite your point suggesting otherwise.
Why do you think Gaia sent him on that little quest to reach Typhon, and then the Sisters of Fate?

b) Yes, but it's also a fact that that was not your original point. I'm not denying your current point, but I am repeatedly pointing out the idiocy of your first point concerning Kratos losing his powers.

I am staying on topic, but I'm also having a little fun at your expense. If I stuck to only debating with you, I wouldn't have been half as persistent as I have been right now. I'm also pretty sure that I would never have learned that you are indeed mentally retarded and a biased fool.

I denied he loses his energy in 2 games? Prove I did.
You on the other hand, first stated that he loses his energy in every single GoW game. Nice try mcfly doped

They aren't relevant anymore since his power-set has changed for the most part. Not to mention, GoW 3 Kratos is largely > GoW 1 Kratos in most areas, barring magic. But you probably will ignore this explanation and once I've pwned you repeatedly, you'll accuse me of saying something else in the future drylaugh
Actually, sane people would rather debate with a person like myself, rather than with a person such as yourself.

You're deluding yourself again, but that's a given. That explanation isn't even relevant anyway, since I don't think 90% of his character's appearances are PIS, nor do I think Spider-man can juggle Buicks.
You on the other hand, think that Thanos, or indeed any character you like, can beat characters who are well beyond their league. Double Standard much?
Humanity & I laugh at you.

What happened to BT saying I was wrong, huh?
Raziel wields the Wraith Blade which isn't the 'True' Soul Reaver. Kain first wields the 'True' Soul Reaver, but he loses it in SR. In Defiance, Kain only wields the Blood Reaver, until Raziel willingly enters the Blood Reaver to give Kain the Soul Reaver.

No, you were wrong this time.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Growing legs or not having a wound, both things don't happen during the QTE, they happen after making them part of gameplay not a QTE thing.

Last post, point 2. Its a strength feat.
Eh an '04 game, oldish. 2:50.
IMO what happens 'during' the QTE is a legit possibility, anything after is down to gameplay.

I'll get my chance one day 313

It still makes the failed QTEs thing look stupid though. Lazy programming most likely, but they were included since the devs had to keep an extra scenario in case the player failed. But fair enough, you have a point.

And as for Kratos not getting a wound, it's part of the failed QTE, not gameplay, since his 'regen' happens during the QTE (which ends when Kratos gets to his feet and enters his characteristic stance)

Yes, but like CC said (and Scream quoted), you can't have a massive strength feat, without having some sort of durability to withstand the force. He'd get blown apart if he were only strong, and not durable.

Actually, at that point (2:50), Octopus (the guy who is attacking Spidey) isn't impaling him, but he's grabbing him with his mechanical limbs. Play it back slowly, and you should see the plier like thing grasp Spidey instead of impale him.
It's actually the way the thing is used on people in the movie as well.

EDIT: never mind, the thing in question was at 2:55 most likely, and not at 2:50. Isn't that just attributed to gameplay though?

Well, hopefully you don't. No one deserves to be put through that much stupidityfacepalm2

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
a) facepalm2

"I stated even though he lost his immense size he always from then on had the power to kill the gods at the game progresses as he gets stronger as each game progresses..." implies that you had earlier mentioned his immense size. That is clearly not the case as I pointed out to you.
Secondly, once he drained his powers into the BoO (lost his immense size much earlier), he was not strong enough to challenge Zeus and the other gods, despite your point suggesting otherwise.
Why do you think Gaia sent him on that little quest to reach Typhon, and then the Sisters of Fate?

b) Yes, but it's also a fact that that was not your original point. I'm not denying your current point, but I am repeatedly pointing out the idiocy of your first point concerning Kratos losing his powers.

I am staying on topic, but I'm also having a little fun at your expense. If I stuck to only debating with you, I wouldn't have been half as persistent as I have been right now. I'm also pretty sure that I would never have learned that you are indeed mentally retarded and a biased fool.

I denied he loses his energy in 2 games? Prove I did.
You on the other hand, first stated that he loses his energy in every single GoW game. Nice try mcfly doped

They aren't relevant anymore since his power-set has changed for the most part. Not to mention, GoW 3 Kratos is largely > GoW 1 Kratos in most areas, barring magic. But you probably will ignore this explanation and once I've pwned you repeatedly, you'll accuse me of saying something else in the future drylaugh
Actually, sane people would rather debate with a person like myself, rather than with a person such as yourself.

You're deluding yourself again, but that's a given. That explanation isn't even relevant anyway, since I don't think 90% of his character's appearances are PIS, nor do I think Spider-man can juggle Buicks.
You on the other hand, think that Thanos, or indeed any character you like, can beat characters who are well beyond their league. Double Standard much?
Humanity & I laugh at you.

What happened to BT saying I was wrong, huh?
Raziel wields the Wraith Blade which isn't the 'True' Soul Reaver. Kain first wields the 'True' Soul Reaver, but he loses it in SR. In Defiance, Kain only wields the Blood Reaver, until Raziel willingly enters the Blood Reaver to give Kain the Soul Reaver.

No, you were wrong this time. a)concession accepted.


You're right about him losing his size but when he retained the sword he had the power to kill the gods as his powers was drained into that. Thanks for backing me up.
b)You finally agree with me. See you can admit your errors when I persist.


Here comes the insults after you admitted you were incorrect and I was right yet again. You seem like a sore loser to me. Stay on topic and quit with the insults it only makes you look emotionally unstable when it comes to arguing video game characters.

He retained his sword which has his energies in it and has realized throughout the course of the games the gods have exaggerated themselves and their power and he can kill them. I thought this was obvious but I guess you missed it.

This isn't about Spiderman it was just an example of people like you. Try and stay on topic you forget how Kratos is portrayed throughout the games and falsely represent him based on a few uber feats of his.


This also isn't about Thanos so quit trying to change the subject here. I know you do this when you feel cornered but try and remain civil here this is just about video game characters.


Both wield the soulreaver and only does it reach it's true power when it's combined just like I said. I was right you were wrong. Not a shocker.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Well it'd be a lame game if you end up dieing 'cause of one attack by a high-grunt >.> Nor do I expect them to draw and keep a wound up for it.

Oh no I'm well aware that Kratos has high durability, if it was for Cronos I was saying that it was more strength then durability, not none. Its to what levels he resists blades is where I begin to question.

Aha timing was a tad off... Seems to be in the same category, its not a normal -mook uses attack, attack my hit him- as when it begins there's no stopping it. And the guy can't regen either.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Well it'd be a lame game if you end up dieing 'cause of one attack by a high-grunt >.> Nor do I expect them to draw and keep a wound up for it.

Oh no I'm well aware that Kratos has high durability, if it was for Cronos I was saying that it was more strength then durability, not none. Its to what levels he resists blades is where I begin to question.

Aha timing was a tad off... Seems to be in the same category, its not a normal -mook uses attack, attack my hit him- as when it begins there's no stopping it. And the guy can't regen either.

Maybe that's because the whole thing is still gameplay, and never happened in canon?
I think you have a valid point, but the whole failed QTEs angle still doesn't make sense at times. Some make sense, while some doesn't. But fair enough, let's say the Centaur can in fact pierce him. It either means that the Centaur is extremely strong, or that the weapon is highly enchanted + sharp.

Well, he does resists BoO swings and stabs from Zeus. Granted, he doesn't resist it with his torso, but his hands.
Even Zeus resists a downward attack with the BoO from Kratos (akin to a slower version of Dante's air T attack with Rebellion )

I dunno, I think you can still avoid the move. Unless the move only happens when Spidey is close to the grunt, in which case it's a grab, but a gameplay move nonetheless.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
All for saying that its a very strong beast, but not above many metahumans here. Size and rank, high strength but surprised it it'd get to the 100 tonner mark.

Palms being tougher may be a good reason for it but ya lost me on the.. whatever it is down move.

Tis a grab move yus, also I could of just crunched the number and found out how hard it is to stab him... feel to meh to work on that `-`;

Originally posted by BloodRain
All for saying that its a very strong beast, but not above many metahumans here. Size and rank, high strength but surprised it it'd get to the 100 tonner mark.

Palms being tougher may be a good reason for it but ya lost me on the.. whatever it is down move.

Tis a grab move yus, also I could of just crunched the number and found out how hard it is to stab him... feel to meh to work on that `-`;

Well, considering it is the only non-boss enemy type shown impaling Kratos outside of a gameplay-related grab/normal attack, I'd say that it very well could be strong. Or since this entire thing is non-canon, it shouldn't even be considered in the first place. 313
Whatever happened to that calculation you and BT were working on?

Oh, it was an attack somewhat like Dante's Helm Breaker attack.

Sorry, I didn't quite understand the last part of this statement >__>

Originally posted by quanchi112
a)concession accepted.

You're right about him losing his size but when he retained the sword he had the power to kill the gods as his powers was drained into that. Thanks for backing me up.
b)You finally agree with me. See you can admit your errors when I persist.

Here comes the insults after you admitted you were incorrect and I was right yet again. You seem like a sore loser to me. Stay on topic and quit with the insults it only makes you look emotionally unstable when it comes to arguing video game characters.

He retained his sword which has his energies in it and has realized throughout the course of the games the gods have exaggerated themselves and their power and he can kill them. I thought this was obvious but I guess you missed it.

This isn't about Spiderman it was just an example of people like you. Try and stay on topic you forget how Kratos is portrayed throughout the games and falsely represent him based on a few uber feats of his.

This also isn't about Thanos so quit trying to change the subject here. I know you do this when you feel cornered but try and remain civil here this is just about video game characters.

Both wield the soulreaver and only does it reach it's true power when it's combined just like I said. I was right you were wrong. Not a shocker.

a) Right, because refuting your points = conceding
No wonder you never concede

Nahh. He was able to fight Zeus when Zeus himself wielded the BoO, which was the sword that contained all of Kratos' energies.
Yeah, had he tried to fight Zeus just after Zeus killed him, he'd have been b****-slapped back to Hades. I thought this was obvious but I guess you missed it.

b) I never made any errors here. You were the one making errors when you stated that Kratos loses his powers near the beginning of every game


When did I admit I was incorrect here? I only did that with the Hydrogen-Water analogy. It was the correct thing to do since I knew I was incorrect. You on the other hand don't even realize when you are wrong. Once someone points out that you were incorrect, you try to side-step it by changing your point, or by acting like a troll; & you call me a sore loser. drylaugh You have a knack for ridiculous Irony.
You're more focused on trying to say I'm incorrect when I'm not, rather than actually debating. Shows me how desperate you are to satisfy your ridiculously large ego.

If I wanted to personally insult you, I'd resort to insulting your looks, your sexuality, your parents, your family, the way you dress etc, but those factors are completely irrelevant in a debate. I'm only insulting your intelligence since it is the only relevant factor in a debate.
Not only am I insulting you, but I'm telling you the truth when I call you 'mentally retarded'. Let's face it, you really are, given by the way your arguments are choc full of hideous double-standards and retarded logic...if it can even be called logic in the first place. What makes it even funnier is that you don't even realize this to be the case.

Portrayals = not counted on KMC debates.
Shall I type this in larger letters to ensure you can read this better next time? Or is reading comprehension your Achilles Heel?

The only reason I bring up Thanos is to show you how deluded and biased you are. In no way am I attacking Thanos. Notice how I said "any character you like...?" Of course not. Reading comprehension isn't your friend anyway.
You always side-step, try to change your stance, and troll when you feel cornered (which is pretty much always), but let's try and remain civil here and just admit you were pwned, k?

No, Kain only wields the Soul Reaver, Raziel doesn't. In Defiance, one wields the original form of the Reaver. The other wields the Wraith Blade which is similar to the actual Soul Reaver, but the WB still isn't the actual Soul Reaver.
There's a big difference between the Reaver, the Wraith Blade and the True Soul Reaver. Not a shocker that you haven't realized this yet.
Also, it's rather funny that you switched from "Raziel wields the Soul Reaver" to 'Raziel wields a weaker version of the Soul Reaver, that needs to be combined to form the stronger Soul Reaver'.
Nice to see your classic stance-switching-when-pwned method take place again.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Theseus, in his battle he can stab Kratos in a similar manner to the Centaur. Besides him and Perseus(?) no one does a stab move on him to say he can resist it, but these three are more then enough for it to be evident.

Reading back, I got no clue what I said.. <.<

We got some figures in the air for Kratos' strength, how does Zeus match up to him? That I know Zeus>Theseus, Perseus and a Centaur, that and them being human-speed stabs will be all thats left to do.

I cant recall the consistency with Kratos, how many things are animated by the developers to mandhandle him? how many context sensistive events are there in Gow 3 and in other GoW games that have him beaten by things far weaker than Cronos. Despite them not being canon, their relevant to gauging Kratos' strength/resistances overall. The Cronos example may be an inconsistency.

Why are people saying kratos cant be cut wtf play and GOW and stand somewhere the smallest creatures make blood fly if you pay attention

Originally posted by dev10n
Why are people saying kratos cant be cut wtf play and GOW and stand somewhere the smallest creatures make blood fly if you pay attention

That's in gameplay, not canon. We use cutscenes and such to determine that kind of thing.

Originally posted by The Scenario
That's in gameplay, not canon. We use cutscenes and such to determine that kind of thing.

Ok so when kratos climbed from the underworld those arms were non canon so he climbed from the underworld without so much as a (HEY STOP!!!! YOU CANT JUST LEAVE HELL)

Originally posted by dev10n
Ok so when kratos climbed from the underworld those arms were non canon so he climbed from the underworld without so much as a (HEY STOP!!!! YOU CANT JUST LEAVE HELL)

I haven't played GoW, I was just telling you why they were saying that. If you have evidence of Kratos being cut in a cutscene, it would render most of this discussion moot.

I think context sensitive animations are important in gauging Kratos' strength and durability. Normal enemies striking him and harming him is indeed just gameplay mechanics however simply to make the game more than just a quick stomp, it has to have some content/difficulty.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Well, considering it is the only non-boss enemy type shown impaling Kratos outside of a gameplay-related grab/normal attack, I'd say that it very well could be strong. Or since this entire thing is non-canon, it shouldn't even be considered in the first place. 313
Whatever happened to that calculation you and BT were working on?

Oh, it was an attack somewhat like Dante's Helm Breaker attack.

Sorry, I didn't quite understand the last part of this statement >__>



a) Right, because refuting your points = conceding
No wonder you never concede

Nahh. He was able to fight Zeus when Zeus himself wielded the BoO, which was the sword that contained all of Kratos' energies.
Yeah, had he tried to fight Zeus just after Zeus killed him, he'd have been b****-slapped back to Hades. I thought this was obvious but I guess you missed it.

b) I never made any errors here. You were the one making errors when you stated that Kratos loses his powers near the beginning of every game


When did I admit I was incorrect here? I only did that with the Hydrogen-Water analogy. It was the correct thing to do since I knew I was incorrect. You on the other hand don't even realize when you are wrong. Once someone points out that you were incorrect, you try to side-step it by changing your point, or by acting like a troll; & you call me a sore loser. drylaugh You have a knack for ridiculous Irony.
You're more focused on trying to say I'm incorrect when I'm not, rather than actually debating. Shows me how desperate you are to satisfy your ridiculously large ego.

If I wanted to personally insult you, I'd resort to insulting your looks, your sexuality, your parents, your family, the way you dress etc, but those factors are completely irrelevant in a debate. I'm only insulting your intelligence since it is the only relevant factor in a debate.
Not only am I insulting you, but I'm telling you the truth when I call you 'mentally retarded'. Let's face it, you really are, given by the way your arguments are choc full of hideous double-standards and retarded logic...if it can even be called logic in the first place. What makes it even funnier is that you don't even realize this to be the case.

Portrayals = not counted on KMC debates.
Shall I type this in larger letters to ensure you can read this better next time? Or is reading comprehension your Achilles Heel?

The only reason I bring up Thanos is to show you how deluded and biased you are. In no way am I attacking Thanos. Notice how I said "any character you like...?" Of course not. Reading comprehension isn't your friend anyway.
You always side-step, try to change your stance, and troll when you feel cornered (which is pretty much always), but let's try and remain civil here and just admit you were pwned, k?

No, Kain only wields the Soul Reaver, Raziel doesn't. In Defiance, one wields the original form of the Reaver. The other wields the Wraith Blade which is similar to the actual Soul Reaver, but the WB still isn't the actual Soul Reaver.
There's a big difference between the Reaver, the Wraith Blade and the True Soul Reaver. Not a shocker that you haven't realized this yet.
Also, it's rather funny that you switched from "Raziel wields the Soul Reaver" to 'Raziel wields a weaker version of the Soul Reaver, that needs to be combined to form the stronger Soul Reaver'.
Nice to see your classic stance-switching-when-pwned method take place again. a)When did you refute any of my points?

Yes, because Kratos came out of nowhere and took him by surprise when he recovered coming through a thread of time. Kratos was powered back up enough and almost killed him with the sword but Athena saved him.

b)I said the powers he achieved in the previous game he loses them at the start of the next one. So in part 1 he was as he is so he didn't achieve awesome powers until the end so I obviously only referred to the beginnings the sequels.

So you say calling someone a troll or stupid isn't an insult? See you don't even know what the word means. How can you bring my family or any of these others factors into it when we don't know each other online. When you figure out an insult is calling someone stupid or a troll get back to me. I am right yet again while you just proved you can't even master simple definitions.


How the characters is portrayed is how we take into account how badass these characters are not just using a few feats while undermining how the character is portrayed 90 percent of the time. You wouldn't make busiek smile.

Quit bringing up other characters who have nothing to do with video games it's trolling and another personal attack on me. Stick to the topic at hand.

Both Kain and Raziel both wielded it. Raziel didn't wield the physical fully combined reaver just like Kain didn't until he went into his sword because he is the soulreaver you nincompoop.


Both wielded the soulreaver just not the fully combined soulreaver just like I said.

This thread has gone pointlessly off-topic. Raziel blinds Kratos and then takes his soul with the wraith blade or the spiritual form of the reaver.

You mean that blade that can't hurt Kratos?

Kratos cannot resist his soul being reaved. Hades technique is completly different to the reavers.

The wraith blade does physical damage to enemies and cannot pierce Kratos' skin.

Yes a blade of spiritual energy does "physical" damage lol.....go and reconsider your lack of logic plez?

Originally posted by Burning thought
Yes a blade of spiritual energy does "physical" damage lol.....go and reconsider your lack of logic plez? lol Raziel FTW

Originally posted by Burning thought
This thread has gone pointlessly off-topic. Raziel blinds Kratos and then takes his soul with the wraith blade or the spiritual form of the reaver. Not likely to happen. Kratos wins all ten. He's more skilled, stronger, more durable, and an all around badass while Raziel isn't.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
You mean that blade that can't hurt Kratos? The blade can definitely hurt Kratos don't be naive.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Not likely to happen. Kratos wins all ten. He's more skilled, stronger, more durable, and an all around badass while Raziel isn't.



Kratos wont see Raziels faster and more agile form as it jumps invisibly at him, uses the light reaver to blind him further and simply impales him from behind or takes his eyes.