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I got this idea from Trick who said the ALE is equal to and like the IG. So, I figured I would use two of the most adept users of each and see what people's thoughts are.

Thanos stomps

Thanos stomps. We don't even know if the ale could work on Thanos anymore without the ig. He is "wired differently."

Originally posted by Naija boy
Thanos stomps

This is spite.

Thanos wins before Darkseid knows what he was just raped by.

Originally posted by Enyalus
This is spite.

Thanos wins before Darkseid knows what he was just raped by.

Thanos would prolly take it slowly.

Thanos ftw.

Awww where is Trick who made this claim when you need him. Actually were is the DS wanking party... Allan, Trick, Kev and Fangirl?

Thanos

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Awww where is Trick who made this claim when you need him. Actually were is the DS wanking party... Allan, Trick, Kev and Fangirl?

If he acts quickly like he would Thanos would take it. I give it to who wins. Try it sometime Kurup

Originally posted by kevdude
If he acts quickly like he would Thanos would take it. I give it to who wins. Try it sometime Kurup How would Darkseid even affect Thanos here?

Originally posted by quanchi112
How would Darkseid even affect Thanos here?

To take away the free will that Thanos w/IG has. Although with that much power in the IG it must have a large amount of the ALE within it, to control things as much as it does, so he could resist it for awhile I would think, or not listen. He would still win never less.

Originally posted by kevdude
To take away the free will that Thanos w/IG has. Although with that much power in the IG it must have a large amount of the ALE within it, to control things as much as it does, so he could resist it for awhile I would think, or not listen. He would still win never less. How? The ale doesn't even work on certain people with no powers anymore. Thanos also has total mastery over the soul and mind. There is no way Darkseid can win this even if Thanos sits there and listens to him for a few hours.

Thanos

Thanos stomps.

Thanos stomp

ALE >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IG
Darkseid takes IG after killing Thanos

Originally posted by manx422
ALE >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IG
Darkseid takes IG after killing Thanos
Darksied couldn't even conquer earth with the ALE.

Originally posted by Nihilist

Darksied couldn't even conquer earth with the ALE.

Actually Earth was lost to DS. Ultimately DS was having a more wide spread effect than Thanos was with the IG.

Originally posted by Nihilist

Darksied couldn't even conquer earth with the ALE.

I agree Thanos wins, but Darkseid DID conquer the Earth

But he never conquered my heart.

thanos is oveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer rated

Originally posted by manx422
thanos is oveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer rated

who cares...he still win..that is the only thing that matter..

ALE>>>>>>>>>>>>>IG
ALE is evil half of source

Originally posted by manx422
thanos is oveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer rated

so are your spelling skills & thanos still reigns

reported
so u edited ur post

Originally posted by manx422
ALE>>>>>>>>>>>>>IG
ALE is evil half of source Retconned?

And the IG is the previous God.

Originally posted by manx422
ALE>>>>>>>>>>>>>IG
ALE is evil half of source

no one can challenge Thanos or Adam with the IG..DS with the ALE got kill by regular heroes..not even an abstract being..so how is ALE >>>>>>>>>> IG??

Originally posted by manx422
reported
so u edited ur post

so report me,big deal.i just thought afterwards that saying that was uncalled for & fixed it.

it was god bullet and black racer and miracle machine which stopped darkseid
u should read what if newer ff

Originally posted by manx422
it was god bullet and black racer and miracle machine which stopped darkseid
u should read what if newer ff

all that thing > DS..mean he's not that powerful..he got defeated..a supreme being would never get defeated by all those thing..

What If??seriously??u wanna use that as a source..

stories in what if are more realistic
writers are not bound by editorial
IG was defeated by LT who made it useless
he could have done it without consent of wielder

Originally posted by manx422
stories in what if are more realistic
writers are not bound by editorial
IG was defeated by LT who made it useless
he could have done it without consent of wielder

who cares..it's not cannon..u can't use it..

he gave it up willingly..LT said that if they fight..they would destroy entire reality..Adam is a hero..he don't want that..we don't know who would win if they actually fight..LT didn't defeat the IG..even if he got defeated by LT..that's not a bad thing..it's the LT..LT can kill DS with the ALE with a simple gesture..

Originally posted by Slaanesh
who cares..it's not cannon..u can't use it..

he gave it up willingly..LT said that if they fight..they would destroy entire reality..Adam is a hero..he don't want that..we don't know who would win if they actually fight..LT didn't defeat the IG..even if he got defeated by LT..that's not a bad thing..it's the LT..LT can kill DS with the ALE with a simple gesture..
NO sir he does not as ALE is evil/dark half of source
Supreme objects do not get disabled

Originally posted by manx422
stories in what if are more realistic
writers are not bound by editorial
IG was defeated by LT who made it useless
he could have done it without consent of wielder Exactly, they aren't bound. Which makes stories dumbed down, and makes weaker characters stronger.

And the story you're referencing to make this point, is where Wolverine cuts off Thanos' arm... after he killed a bunch of abstracts.

having IG does not give u instant victory but having ALE does

Originally posted by manx422
having IG does not give u instant victory but having ALE does Except when the user with the ALE gets beaten...

Also, that had nothing to do with what I said.

Originally posted by manx422
having IG does not give u instant victory but having ALE does

i don't even know what to say to that..

Just concede.

Originally posted by kgkg
Just concede.

Originally posted by manx422

Originally posted by manx422
ALE>>>>>>>>>>>>>IG
ALE is evil half of source

The thread starter meant 'ALE' as in 'Anti-Life Equation' - not 'Anti-Life Entity' - which is what you're thinking of.

IG stomps everyone who knows the Anti-Life Equation. At the same time.

IG also beats the Anti-Life Entity, who only has half of the Source's power.




Besides that, Grant Morrison retconned the Entity into nonexistence, so...

Well at least Manx stepped up to the plate... but Trick... well he was no where to be found.

Originally posted by manx422
stories in what if are more realistic
writers are not bound by editorial
IG was defeated by LT who made it useless
he could have done it without consent of wielder Lt never defeated the ig in battle. It was done with the consent of Adam.Originally posted by manx422
having IG does not give u instant victory but having ALE does Regular people can resist the ale nowadays.

Originally posted by kevdude
If he acts quickly like he would Thanos would take it. I give it to who wins. Try it sometime Kurup

Actually Kev, that is exactly what I also try and do. In the Supes, MM Orion vs. Thanos thread I gave it an even split and said the 3some could come up with a prep plan to beat thanos as an example. I do have preferences obviously, but I do try and be somewhat objective as you also claim to do.

Originally posted by Allankles
Actually Earth was lost to DS. Ultimately DS was having a more wide spread effect than Thanos was with the IG. i meant as some of the population as not effected.

Like who? As already proven, the only 3 examples of someone not affected by the ALE, were one monitor and 2 new gods. It worked on everyone else, including Spectre.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Like who? As already proven, the only 3 examples of someone not affected by the ALE, were one monitor and 2 new gods. It worked on everyone else, including Spectre.


Ummm so the part on panel where it states it doesn't effect everyone who is "wired differently" means only 3 people LOL

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Ummm so the part on panel where it states it doesn't effect everyone who is "wired differently" means only 3 people LOL

The 3 examples they had of being 'wired differently' were not humans. And so maybe the other 'wired differently' people were actually New Gods. You have no basis to claim that anyone who is insane is immune to it, since the only examples you have are not a baseline by which other individuals can measured.

Unless you think a Monitor and two new gods means everyone who is crazy. In which case, turn off your computer, and stop polluting the internet with your thought pollution. doped

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
The 3 examples they had of being 'wired differently' were not humans. And so maybe the other 'wired differently' people were actually New Gods. You have no basis to claim that anyone who is insane is immune to it, since the only examples you have are not a baseline by which other individuals can measured.

Unless you think a Monitor and two new gods means everyone who is crazy. In which case, turn off your computer, and stop polluting the internet with your thought pollution. doped

The opposite is true Trick you have no proof that it doesn't mean that nor do you have proof that it doesn't apply to regular humas. Shit it took DS how long to take over a regular human LOL. By the time Thanos would have WTF pwned in an instant. Didn't it say it effected 3 billion people.... yet how many billions are there on earth? hmmmmm LOL

That guy that is half black, and half white >>IG but the thing that DS used in FC<<<IG

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
The 3 examples they had of being 'wired differently' were not humans. And so maybe the other 'wired differently' people were actually New Gods. You have no basis to claim that anyone who is insane is immune to it, since the only examples you have are not a baseline by which other individuals can measured.

Unless you think a Monitor and two new gods means everyone who is crazy. In which case, turn off your computer, and stop polluting the internet with your thought pollution. doped Another baseless claim. It is stated on panel to have no effect on those "wired differently." I put up the scan to prove my point earlier.

We also didn't see Darkseid talk anyone into submission like say in death of the new gods. The ale was downgraded according to Morrison.

Originally posted by Slaanesh
all that thing > DS..mean he's not that powerful..he got defeated..a supreme being would never get defeated by all those thing..

What If??seriously??u wanna use that as a source..
The Black racer only killed DS' body nothing else. The Miracle Machine is the strongest weapon(or w.e. you wanna call it) in both Marvel and Dc.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
The Black racer only killed DS' body nothing else. The Miracle Machine is the strongest weapon(or w.e. you wanna call it) in both Marvel and Dc. No, it isn't. Maybe in dc but not in marvel.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, it isn't. Maybe in dc but not in marvel.
What's the strongest weapon in Marvel? Do you even know what the Miracle Machine is?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
The opposite is true Trick you have no proof that it doesn't mean that nor do you have proof that it doesn't apply to regular humas. Shit it took DS how long to take over a regular human LOL. By the time Thanos would have WTF pwned in an instant. Didn't it say it effected 3 billion people.... yet how many billions are there on earth? hmmmmm LOL

This is the part where you claim to be not biased but here you obviously are. It worked on everyone who heard it, that's half the people the other half was hunted down and forced to hear it or have the helmets put on and the ALE made them all DS. Have you read all of FC?

Originally posted by xJLxKing
What's the strongest weapon in Marvel? Do you even know what the Miracle Machine is? Un is definitely up there.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Un is definitely up there.
MM>>UN imo

^ Not according to a lot of folks who have suggested that the Miracle Machine didn't really do all that much.

Thanos changes the ALE equation.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Not according to a lot of folks who have suggested that the Miracle Machine didn't really do all that much.

Having re-read it, I can now see that Superman sung DS out of existence. And I'm ok with that. He's ****ing Superman. superman srug

And given that the Miracle Machine took down Mandrakk via the happy ending clause, it's way stronger than the IG or UN. As for the life equation thing, aside from one throw away line, you got nothing. Besides, Darkseid's consciousness had already crushed the multiverse at that point, and the major repairs happened after Mandrakk fell, including dragging New Earth back and fixing space/time.

that was all the MM

Originally posted by Mindset
Thanos changes the ALE equation.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Having re-read it, I can now see that Superman sung DS out of existence. And I'm ok with that. He's ****ing Superman. superman srug

And given that the Miracle Machine took down Mandrakk via the happy ending clause, it's way stronger than the IG or UN. As for the life equation thing, aside from one throw away line, you got nothing. Besides, Darkseid's consciousness had already crushed the multiverse at that point, and the major repairs happened after Mandrakk fell, including dragging New Earth back and fixing space/time. Just so you know, I wasn't just referring to you. By my recollection, kevdude, symmetric chaos and comicfan11 all had low opinions on what the Miracle Machine actually did. Only fangirl101, allankles and now apparently, you, agree about the sheer magnitude the Miracle Machine operated on.

And my arguments never hinged on the reference whereby the Miracle Machine calculates the Life Equation. It only acts as correlative evidence which supports the clear, on-panel evidence and theme of the story. But we both have danced this dance before, so let's agree to disagree.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Just so you know, I wasn't just referring to you. By my recollection, kevdude, symmetric chaos and comicfan11 all had low opinions on what the Miracle Machine actually did. Only fangirl101, allankles and now apparently, you, agree about the sheer magnitude the Miracle Machine operated on.

And my arguments never hinged on the reference whereby the Miracle Machine calculates the Life Equation. It only acts as correlative evidence which supports the clear, on-panel evidence and theme of the story. But we both have danced this dance before, so let's agree to disagree.
Me too

^ Was referring to the people who I have historically debated with over Final Crisis. ranting

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Was referring to the people who I have historically debated with over Final Crisis. ranting
Oh

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Not according to a lot of folks who have suggested that the Miracle Machine didn't really do all that much.

I don't think anyone said the MM never did much (sounds like you still don't understand what it did), it obviously did as it calculates the Life Equation. Most powerful weapon though? No a regular Mother Box from the Fourth World is much more powerful even stated by Darkseid himself. Superman broke his essence up so the Black Racer could take DS, he did not kill Darkseid as Orion already battled him in the Fourth World and wounded him beyond help.

the point is..DS still lose..if he really is on IG level of power..he would have never been defeated like that..like Trick says..Superman sung DS out of existence..something like that would never defeat the IG..in fact..IG has never been defeated before..

Originally posted by Slaanesh
the point is..DS still lose..if he really is on IG level of power..he would have never been defeated like that..like Trick says..Superman sung DS out of existence..something like that would never defeat the IG..in fact..IG has never been defeated before..

facepalm DID NOT READ FINAL CRISIS. God himself basically took down Darkseid. Did you even see how many plot devices they had to use just to take him down? Hell, DS's feat was multiversal, the IG's only affected 2 universes at best.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest

Hell, DS's feat was multiversal,

the IG's only affected 2 universes at best.
And stomped 616 cosmic hierarchy (prime templates of all their alternate s,
including the infinite Multiversal power of 616 Eternity in one move,
and also replaced the core of the Omniverse.

And stomped the Multiversal remaking UN.

And was stated to make the wielder GOD by the writer's narration,
and by Jim Starlin himself in an official interview.

And was stated to make the wielder Omnipotent by the LT, and Eternity,
and by the sentient Soul gem,
and by Marvel.com.

And was stated to make the wielder all that is, if one wished by the sentient Soul gem,
and Warlock, and Thanos and the Watcher.

And was stated to have the power to take down the Ultraverse Multiverse,
and the 616 Multiverse by the LT himself. (which leads to destruction of everything)

The IG is so potent,
that TOAA themselves had to place the second restriction on its use,
of course, 17 years later that factual truth was overstepped,
but meh,
the LT had to come as a direct representative of TOAA's power
in order to surpass its power.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
facepalm DID NOT READ FINAL CRISIS. God himself basically took down Darkseid. Did you even see how many plot devices they had to use just to take him down? Hell, DS's feat was multiversal, the IG's only affected 2 universes at best.

what God??Supes??Miracle Machine??Black Racer??i read all the FC and it's tie-in..there is not a single cosmic being that try to stop him..how can u compare that with the IG..it took the LT himself to stop the IG..cuz no one else have the power to do so..what cosmic being did DS beat in FC??

You fail to understand the subtext and words between the lines. There was a massive amount of effort, time, energy, and prep that went into bringing down Darkseid.

This was not a threat that could be defeated by sheer power. It was not an army that brought down Darkseid, he had to be gradually worn down and weakened by several forces.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest

This was not a threat that could be defeated by sheer power. Why not?

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
You fail to understand the subtext and words between the lines. There was a massive amount of effort, time, energy, and prep that went into bringing down Darkseid.

This was not a threat that could be defeated by sheer power. It was not an army that brought down Darkseid, he had to be gradually worn down and weakened by several forces.

"he had to be gradually worn down and weakened by several forces"..if he is as great as u make him sound..nothing can do that to him..u don't see something like that happen to the IG now do u..why..cuz no one can do that to the IG..

Originally posted by xJLxKing
MM>>UN imo Get back to me when it rewrites the multiverse with a press of a button.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Having re-read it, I can now see that Superman sung DS out of existence. And I'm ok with that. He's ****ing Superman. superman srug

And given that the Miracle Machine took down Mandrakk via the happy ending clause, it's way stronger than the IG or UN. As for the life equation thing, aside from one throw away line, you got nothing. Besides, Darkseid's consciousness had already crushed the multiverse at that point, and the major repairs happened after Mandrakk fell, including dragging New Earth back and fixing space/time. No, it isn't. You should be used to Superman beating Darkseid by now. Hell, he even beat him at the start of mk vs. dc.


The MM has done nothing to prove it is on their level. Ds wasn't above Batman throwing a wrench in his plans. The ig just blinks people out of existence. It can change your soul simply by thinking it while the ale cannot. The ale can be resisted and the signal can be jammed. Nowhere near the ig at all.

Trick cracks me up when he says DS was Multiversal and an abstract. Trick he couldn't have accomplished anythinng without the war, the breach, and the ALE. He didn't create anything... it was formed from his death. Get this through your thick skull. Him "falling" and the ALE allowed him to do everything and none of which was his doing. He didn't just the singularity out of thin air, it wasn't his intention. Sure he went with it and tried to drag everything down with him but he couldn't do that on a whim. Let's not even get into the ALE either as he couldn't have done anything without that boast.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Trick cracks me up when he says DS was Multiversal and an abstract. Trick he couldn't have accomplished anythinng without the war, the breach, and the ALE. He didn't create anything... it was formed from his death. Get this through your thick skull. Him "falling" and the ALE allowed him to do everything and none of which was his doing. He didn't just the singularity out of thin air, it wasn't his intention. Sure he went with it and tried to drag everything down with him but he couldn't do that on a whim. Let's not even get into the ALE either as he couldn't have done anything without that boast.

Everything was his plan except him actually not surviving. Sure the ALE kept him alive but he was still very weak. I don't know why it matters that he fell and you think just because of that it doesn't show his true power, it does, not that hard Kurup. Darkseid cared nothing for the IG while he had it.

Originally posted by Mr Master
The IG is so potent,
that TOAA themselves had to place the second restriction on its use,
of course, 17 years later that factual truth was overstepped,
but meh,
the LT had to come as a direct representative of TOAA's power
in order to surpass its power.
I don't think I know what you're referring to here?

Originally posted by kevdude
Everything was his plan except him actually not surviving. Sure the ALE kept him alive but he was still very weak. I don't know why it matters that he fell and you think just because of that it doesn't show his true power, it does, not that hard Kurup. Darkseid cared nothing for the IG while he had it. Dude, Darkseid didn't care for the ale because it didn't function in the dc universe.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Get back to me when it rewrites the multiverse with a press of a button.

You completely missed the point of Final Crisis 7.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
You completely missed the point of Final Crisis 7. No, I didn't. You continue to ignore evidence and what not just to wank to Darkseid.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Having re-read it, I can now see that Superman sung DS out of existence. And I'm ok with that. He's ****ing Superman. superman srug

And given that the Miracle Machine took down Mandrakk via the happy ending clause, it's way stronger than the IG or UN. As for the life equation thing, aside from one throw away line, you got nothing. Besides, Darkseid's consciousness had already crushed the multiverse at that point, and the major repairs happened after Mandrakk fell, including dragging New Earth back and fixing space/time.

Supes didn't sing DS out of existence that was the shadow of his spirit holding on to the multiverse even as the Black Racer pulled him into the black hole at the centre of creation.

Supes loosened his grip on reality, he didn't actually take him out of existence with a song. Btw these are the author's words not mine.

Originally posted by kevdude
Everything was his plan except him actually not surviving. Sure the ALE kept him alive but he was still very weak. I don't know why it matters that he fell and you think just because of that it doesn't show his true power, it does, not that hard Kurup. Darkseid cared nothing for the IG while he had it.

It's not a reflection of his power; it's a reflection of his essential to the DC universe. If he died, the DC universe would be destroyed and that's exactly what happened in FC. Darkseid died and his fall was collapsing the multiverse. The difference in Morrison's book is that, he can be permanently killed and the multverse can be fixed - it wasn't complete doom if Darkseid was removed from existence.

As for JLA/Avengers, he did care for it that's why he was wearing the damn thing and why Desaad was analyzing it for him.


Thanos wins this.

Originally posted by kevdude
I don't think anyone said the MM never did much (sounds like you still don't understand what it did), it obviously did as it calculates the Life Equation. Most powerful weapon though? No a regular Mother Box from the Fourth World is much more powerful even stated by Darkseid himself. Superman broke his essence up so the Black Racer could take DS, he did not kill Darkseid as Orion already battled him in the Fourth World and wounded him beyond help. It was argued by people that all it did was summon Nix Uotan and/or bottle a universe. Miracle Machine's feat was greater than Motherboxxx's feats in Final Crisis despite whatever quote you're drawing from. Darkseid's ultimate defeat was accomplished on several levels:

(i) Orion wounded him beyond repair in the cosmic war in heaven.
(ii) Batman poisoned Darkseid with the Radion bullet.
(iii) The Flashes redirect the multiple Omega Finder Beams into Darkseid, which distracts and turns the Black Racer onto Darkseid, who was now at death's door.
(iv) After Darkseid's essence leaves Turpin's body, Superman sung the song he learned in the Bleed and shattered his essence.

However you decide to attribute Darkseid's ultimate defeat is your own opinion.
Originally posted by Mr Master
...

And stomped Quasar who tried to use the UN.

...Fixed.

The main point to take from Onedumb's post is: It took ALOT of effort and several plot devices to bring down Darkseid.

And given that I'm reasonably sure whatever was left of him fell into the singularity, there is a chance he could come back.........fear
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AsLongAsThereIsEvil

Their commentary is not only amusing, it shows somebody reads comics.

"# Darkseid.

* Recently they killed his body, trapped his soul and made his consciousness explode. Bets are open on how long it takes for him to come back. "

Originally posted by Enyalus

I don't think I know what you're referring to here?
Infinity War, Eternity came out at the end and stated,
that this time, TOAA itself placed the restriction on the IG.

17 years later, Illuminati comes forth,
and when Tony (Iron Man) says, 'what about the restictions placed on the IG'
Reed asks, "By who?" ... and goes ahead and forms the IG at the end.

I still don't see what that was about,
they did at-least recognize that there was a restriction,
but it seems that the writer of Illuminati said, 'pfft, I don't care'
meh, it was TOAA after all that supposedly did it,
so, since this is another OAA (Writer/Artist) I guess they can change the rules.

On top of this, Starlin doesn't work for Marvel anymore,
so it's not like he has a voice on the matter, and anyways,
Editors in-Chief are the last word concerning materials that have been published.

At-least the Rune incident gave us some logic behind the story,
the LT's faces must agree,
but Illuminati simply skipped what was canon, or retconned canonicity.

To be honest, I'm not sure of either.

Originally posted by Allankles
Supes didn't sing DS out of existence that was the shadow of his spirit holding on to the multiverse even as the Black Racer pulled him into the black hole at the centre of creation.

Supes loosened his grip on reality, he didn't actually take him out of existence with a song. Btw these are the author's words not mine.

Originally posted by Allankles
Supes didn't sing DS out of existence that was the shadow of his spirit holding on to the multiverse even as the Black Racer pulled him into the black hole at the centre of creation.

Supes loosened his grip on reality, he didn't actually take him out of existence with a song. Btw these are the author's words not mine. Wow. You just told trick the guy who tells everyone else they didn't get fc that he himself didn't get fc.

I cant believe this thread isnt closed and people are actually debating on this. This is a none fight that wouldnt even last a second. Thanos with the ig was beyond almost anything in mu, nothing was a threat to him.

Thanos smiles and kill darkseid, its just that damn easy and then he take control of the ale himself and throw that sh** away due to his already omnipotent powers.

ALE>IG

No

having IG does not give u instant victory but havng ALE does

Originally posted by Mindset
No

Originally posted by manx422
having IG does not give u instant victory but havng ALE does
Yeah, sure I mean having unlimited power from strenght to space, time..etc means nothing.

Originally posted by manx422
having IG does not give u instant victory but havng ALE does

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
It was argued by people that all it did was summon Nix Uotan and/or bottle a universe. Miracle Machine's feat was greater than Motherboxxx's feats in Final Crisis despite whatever quote you're drawing from. Darkseid's ultimate defeat was accomplished on several levels:

(i) Orion wounded him beyond repair in the cosmic war in heaven.
(ii) Batman poisoned Darkseid with the Radion bullet.
(iii) The Flashes redirect the multiple Omega Finder Beams into Darkseid, which distracts and turns the Black Racer onto Darkseid, who was now at death's door.
(iv) After Darkseid's essence leaves Turpin's body, Superman sung the song he learned in the Bleed and shattered his essence.

However you decide to attribute Darkseid's ultimate defeat is your own opinion.
Fixed.

I know all that OneDumb, that's what I've been saying the whole time. I don't know what you think the Miracle Machine (a poorly made MotherBoxxx) did but what it did officially do was fix the crack that Darkseid made as he fell into the Multiverse as Superman brought hope back to it with FC ending with a happy ending, ending Darkseids effects on it as everyone felt hopeless, or you could say bottle the universe again for protection. The MotherBoxxx which was used by Mister Miracle saved everyone in the Castle and Satellite right before Darkseid snapped the lifeline between Earth-Zero and Earth-51 which was the only planet safe in the Multiverse aka the New Genesis of the Fifth World (FC 7).

After reading FC again in FC 4 we see Alan Scott giving everyone his last commands and how dire the situation is. Telling everyone the gods of Apokolips have been using there tech and splicing animals and humans and making hybrid soldiers, and there presence in our lower realm deforms time and distorts the minds.

Nice job Morrison

^ Your opinion. You'd like to suggest that once Superman wished for a happy ending, it only reversed Darkseid's effect, which you characterize as an imposition of "multiversal hopelessness." First off, your assuming your conclusion. (i) Since the Miracle Machine fixed all the effects of "multiversal hopelessness" and (ii) DS caused all "multiversal hopelessness effects," then (iii) all the Miracle Machine did was counter DS.

You assume (ii) is correct without ever proving so. Not even going into whether or not it was his mastery of the ALE, which proves you to be the master of all existence, that premise is fundamentally flawed. Darkseid was not the cause of every dilemna and emergency that occurs in Final Crisis: (i) Mandrakk was not an effect of DS' mythical "multiversal hopelessness effect," since DS was already defeated; and (ii) Nix Uotan deciding that the Monitors had to fade from existence was not an effect of DS' mythical "multiversal hopelessness effect," since DS was already defeated.

The happy endings whereby Mandrakk is defeated and Nix Uotan is reincarnated had nothing to do with DS' mythical "multiversal hopelessness effect." Yet, those were a result of the Miracle Machine's working out Superman's happy ending wish. As such, the Miracle Machine's powers didn't just counter DS' mythical "multiversal hopelessness effect," it extended beyond that and him. Your interpretation is flawed.

And the Miracle Machine is not a poorly made Motherbox. It's the Controller's perfection of the Guardian's technology which converts thoughts not into plasma constructs, but pure reality. It calculated the Life Equation, the polar opposite of the Anti-Life Equation and you can refuse to extrapolate what that actually speaks for in terms of the scope of the ALE all you want. But bottom-line is, Miracle Machine's feats still far outstrip what the Motherboxxx did in Final Crisis.

As for your utter reliance on DS' own words as proof that outstrips on-panel feats? This is the word of the same character who scoffed at Batman outracing him and believed himself to be the Fifth World. His word meant crap. And I find quoting another person's opinion on the veracity of his word to be particularly appropriate at this time:

NRAMA: Afterwards, Metron welcomes the Fifth World as the age of men as gods. Wasn't the Fifth World Darkseid's World and age?

GM: Sez Darkseid! Just as Hitler thought the future belonged to the Fuhrer and his glorious Thousand Year Reich, so does Darkseid overestimate his place in the Great Story.

Nice job Morrison

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

The Miracle Machine has nothing to do with motherboxes. It's refined Controller/Oan technology. I do agree that the Miracle Machine has only one function: turn thought into reality. A working Miracle Machine in anybody's hands is the perfect tool for anything. It's speculation that Darkseid could have used it and quite frankly, impossible. The Miracle Machine still lacked Element X. Superman detected and retrieved it when he adjusted to the resulting silence after destroying DS' essence.

Let's not over analyze things. Element X is a NG term remember? It has only ever been used by the NG's, designed by Apokolips science and Himon, who was tricked by DS into completing the x-element. Supes used the x-element in Metron's chair to make it work.

It was a type of motherbox (there are several types). It was designed by the controllers but it has a relation to Metron, even having the motherbox symbol at its front.

It was only dangerous to Supes because of its single function, a wish would easily be corrupted.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I am aware of that context. I am also aware of how that context neither changes that Darkseid was embarassed by Batman, nor reduces the exposure of just how overinflated his grasp on reality was. Even Morrison even had to stick a pin in his balloon. DS' statements are not reliable. They are not intrinsically wrong in nature, but in light of what he's said and what's actually happened, using them as evidence in a debate is dubious.


It's hardly dubious when its a description of a piece of technology. Are you going to argue about fictional terminologies? Take a step back before you start on this type of tangents. What's dubious about terminology? we're talking about a guy who knows everything about abstract technology.

Originally posted by manx422
ALE>IG You keep stating something we all know to be untrue.

The Miracle Machine was not the original, it was a copy created by pooling all of Earth's resources and a few other components like the X Element.

And because of that, it could only be used once. Darkseid using it was a non-issue.

Darkseid's statements are reliable to a point. You have to separate the truth from his perspective. Earth being the 5th world is something the new gods were very aware of. The mistake was that he was destined to rule it.



.............Still got damn close though.

One more thing, it was not the Omega Finder Beams that got him. He was already dying. The problem was the singularity was beyond the reach of light and death.

Allankles: It's not a motherbox. Reread Final Crisis #6, where Braniac describes it as Controller-refined Guardian technology from the future. It's ignorant to rely completely on DS' snide comment about it to conclude it is a motherbox, when Braniac already revealed its origins and when the veracity of DS' comments have already been upended by Grant Morrison.

All your attempts to sidetrack don't change the crux of the debate of the original issue: Miracle Machine > Motherboxxx. Any suggestion otherwise ignores on-panel feats.

As for your sidetracking assertions regarding Element X, it still doesn't change the fact that you were incorrect when you suggested that DS would have used it. It wasn't finished by that point. And reliance on prior stories was decidely something we both should understand as being highly suspect. People have rightly called out DS on never demonstrating your oft-argued mythical levels of multiversal power by relying on previous stories which show he has no such influence.

Accidentally forgetting this for your convenience because you have nothing else constructive to offer for rebuttal's sake is self-serving and a double-standard. Drop prior history or accept it. Your repeated selectiveness reveals again how strained your interpretations are.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Allankles: It's not a motherbox. Reread Final Crisis #6, where Braniac describes it as Controller-refined Guardian technology from the future. It's ignorant to rely completely on DS' snide comment about it to conclude it is a motherbox, when Braniac already revealed its origins and when the veracity of DS' comments have already been upended by Grant Morrison.

All your attempts to sidetrack don't change the crux of the debate of the original issue: Miracle Machine > Motherboxxx. Any suggestion otherwise ignores on-panel feats.

As for your sidetracking assertions regarding Element X, it still doesn't change the fact that you were incorrect when you suggested that DS would have used it. It wasn't finished by that point. And reliance on prior stories was decidely something we both should understand as being highly suspect. People have rightly called out DS on never demonstrating your oft-argued mythical levels of multiversal power by relying on previous stories which show he has no such influence.

Accidentally forgetting this for your convenience because you have nothing else constructive to offer for rebuttal's sake is self-serving and a double-standard. Drop prior history or accept it. Your repeated selectiveness reveals again how strained your interpretations are.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Allankles: It's not a motherbox. Reread Final Crisis #6, where Braniac describes it as Controller-refined Guardian technology from the future. It's ignorant to rely completely on DS' snide comment about it to conclude it is a motherbox, when Braniac already revealed its origins and when the veracity of DS' comments have already been upended by Grant Morrison.

All your attempts to sidetrack don't change the crux of the debate of the original issue: Miracle Machine > Motherboxxx. Any suggestion otherwise ignores on-panel feats.

As for your sidetracking assertions regarding Element X, it still doesn't change the fact that you were incorrect when you suggested that DS would have used it. It wasn't finished by that point. And reliance on prior stories was decidely something we both should understand as being highly suspect. People have rightly called out DS on never demonstrating your oft-argued mythical levels of multiversal power by relying on previous stories which show he has no such influence.

Accidentally forgetting this for your convenience because you have nothing else constructive to offer for rebuttal's sake is self-serving and a double-standard. Drop prior history or accept it. Your repeated selectiveness reveals again how strained your interpretations are.

To be fair Grant was not talking about the Motherboxxxs in that Q. We all know the Miracle Machine is not a Motherboxxx and Darkseid was merely only comparing it to a poorly put together and made Motherboxxx which can only make 1 wish, this puts it far above the Miracle Machine. The Life Equation heals and gives hope to the hopeless something that the Miracle Machine did when it fixed the crack.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Allankles: It's not a motherbox. Reread Final Crisis #6, where Braniac describes it as Controller-refined Guardian technology from the future. It's ignorant to rely completely on DS' snide comment about it to conclude it is a motherbox, when Braniac already revealed its origins and when the veracity of DS' comments have already been upended by Grant Morrison.

All your attempts to sidetrack don't change the crux of the debate of the original issue: Miracle Machine > Motherboxxx. Any suggestion otherwise ignores on-panel feats.



You're being so obtuse right now it's not even funny. I don't care if it is a motherboxx or otherwise, and don't think Morrison's intent was to say it was a motherboxx, but the idea is that Braniac, Supes et al (even the controllers) don't fully understand the depth of what the Miracle machine was.

Supes creates the machine without a full understanding of what it is, creating a copy on everything he remembers about the design of the original.

That's why DS describes it as cargo-cult motherboxx (i hope you know what that means?), this has no bearing on DS' over inflation of his importance in the grand story.

As kevdude has mentioned his snide comments of the Miracle Machine device, are a technical appraisal they have nothing to do with his overinflated view of his place in the grand story. What would describing it as a motherboxx do for his ego?

you do realize that motherboxx have unique functions? And the original machine has the motherbox symbols that Metron uses at its front.

Your coming off like this was just news to you, as far his multiversal powers are concerned, Morrison already commented that he was bringing down the multiverse structure after Batman poisoned him, destroying continuities as he sunk into the blackhole of creation, spiting his enemies.

Originally posted by kevdude
To be fair Grant was not talking about the Motherboxxxs in that Q. We all know the Miracle Machine is not a Motherboxxx and Darkseid was merely only comparing it to a poorly put together and made Motherboxxx which can only make 1 wish, this puts it far above the Miracle Machine. The Life Equation heals and gives hope to the hopeless something that the Miracle Machine did when it fixed the crack.

Exactly, DS was comparing it to a poorly designed MB. As far as the life equation is concerned Mister Miracle and Metron already possessed it as well. So again, where's the issue of debate here? MB's can alter the laws of physics too, some even becoming non-corporeal and merging with the souls of their owners, others being omniscient.

Their purpose is defined by their creators powers of invention.

Originally posted by kevdude
To be fair Grant was not talking about the Motherboxxxs in that Q. We all know the Miracle Machine is not a Motherboxxx and Darkseid was merely only comparing it to a poorly put together and made Motherboxxx which can only make 1 wish, this puts it far above the Miracle Machine. The Life Equation heals and gives hope to the hopeless something that the Miracle Machine did when it fixed the crack. Motherboxxx was not over the Miracle Machine. I have no idea where you came up with such a nonsensical idea. And not everybody believes the Miracle Machine is not a motherbox. Should argue with Allankles about that, not me:Originally posted by Allankles
Also the Miracle Machine is a motherbox with a single function. Originally posted by Allankles
It was a type of motherbox (there are several types). It was designed by the controllers but it has a relation to Metron, even having the motherbox symbol at its front.Might want to get your positions straight with each other before you guys act like you're presenting a coherent unified interpretation against my views, lulz. Also, IIRC, I never saw a motherbox symbol on it.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Also, IIRC, I never saw a motherbox symbol on it.

Look at the centre of the machine, it's a carbon copy of Metron's motherbox circuit.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e3/MiracleMachine.PNG

http://jla.freewebpages.org/gallery/metron.jpg

^ The center? I'm trying to see what you're trying to see, help me out here:

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ The center? I'm trying to see what you're trying to see, help me out here:

The beam at the center, the bar across, the two circles on each end of the frame. This was already confirmed it's the only reason I even noticed it.

EDIT: And of course the circle and the centre resistor.

^ Are you equating Metron's circuit/tatoo/weapon of the gods to a symbol that represents a motherbox?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Are you equating Metron's circuit/tatoo/weapon of the gods to a symbol that represents a motherbox?

That's Metron's Motherbox, the circuitry on his suit.

Originally posted by Allankles
This was already confirmed it's the only reason I even noticed it.

Where?

Originally posted by Mindset
Where?

DC database.

The fan made site?

Originally posted by Allankles
That's Metron's Motherbox, the circuitry on his suit. You're not answering the question, is the symbol a representation of a motherbox or something else?

Originally posted by Mindset
The fan made site?

Its a big encyclopedia, I believe the guy who made it also did the marvel database, I don't know if he's just a fan or a company insider.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You're not answering the question, is the symbol a representation of a motherbox or something else?

It's metron's motherbox circuitry and it also symbolized the god-weapon (the miracle machine) which Anthro was shown by Metron. Foreshadowing upon foreshadowing, its the way Morrison writes.

Originally posted by Allankles
Its a big encyclopedia, I believe the guy who made it also did the marvel database, I don't know if he's just a fan or a company insider. ^ http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/DC_Database:staff

http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Marvel_Database:staff

http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/User:Jamie

He's a fan.Originally posted by Allankles
It's metron's motherbox circuitry and it also symbolized the god-weapon (the miracle machine) which Anthro was shown by Metron. Foreshadowing upon foreshadowing, its the way Morrison writes. You avoid the question again. What does the symbol represent? A motherbox or something else?

Found it in FC Directors Cut. It is Metrons circuitry pattern. Seems like it was the Controllers who took the weapon away from Anthro.. Look back in FC 1 and we see someone probably a Controller talking to Anthro saying "Metron gave you a Weapon against the Gods" "We need it Now". From all that Allanklens is right.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

He's a fan.You avoid the question again. What does the symbol represent? A motherbox or something else?

I already told you. Anthro is given the symbol of the weapon against the gods by Metron (which also happens to be the symbol of the motherbox circuitry on his suit). Kamandi asks Anthro for the weapon against the gods which Metron gave him. The same circuitry that protects people from anti-life.

So it is at once the pattern of the motherbox circuitry and resembles the front of the miracle machine which had never been shown before FC.

Originally posted by kevdude
Found it in FC Directors Cut. It is Metrons circuitry pattern. Seems like it was the Controllers who took the weapon away from Anthro.. Look back in FC 1 and we see someone probably a Controller talking to Anthro saying "Metron gave you a Weapon against the Gods" "We need it Now". From all that Allanklens is right.

I've got to disagree with you on this one, the guy asking is Kamandi, a human from the far future.

Yes it was Kamandi

Kamandi: The Last Boy on Earth
Anthro: The First Boy on Earth

Why is this seven pages? Seriously?



Thanos blinks DS out of existence for the win. 10/10. In every possible scenario.

Originally posted by Allankles
I already told you. Anthro is given the symbol of the weapon against the gods by Metron (which also happens to be the symbol of the motherbox circuitry on his suit). Kamandi asks Anthro for the weapon against the gods which Metron gave him. The same circuitry that protects people from anti-life.

So it is at once the pattern of the motherbox circuitry and resembles the front of the miracle machine which had never been shown before FC. You're getting warmer with that underlined part. But you won't come right out and say it. So you are still avoiding the question. What does the symbol represent? I don't care what is patterned after it and I don't care what resembles it. What does the symbol actually represent?

Originally posted by Allankles
I've got to disagree with you on this one, the guy asking is Kamandi, a human from the far future.

Anthro was the first boy on Earth, Kamandi was the last boy on Earth. Anthro drew the pattern we can see Kamandi who is blond. Metron gave them the weapon then fire (like Superman needing the X-Element aka the fire of the gods in Metrons chair) to end the first war, Vandel tries to take control and is stopped, it is the first war on the first pages with the rest of FC being that last war. The pattern was stolen by a renegade Controller who then built the Miracle Machine.

^ Considering Allankles' desperate dodging, I'll leave you two to figure this out amongst yourselves and come back later. facepalm

Originally posted by Allankles
I've got to disagree with you on this one, the guy asking is Kamandi, a human from the far future.

Yeah I agree now, didn't realise Anthro was in the future until I saw the red sky.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Considering Allankles' desperate dodging, I'll leave you two to figure this out amongst yourselves and come back later. facepalm

I've already told you. It's a foreshadowing of the god-weapon (the miracle machine) and happens to share the same design pattern as Metron's motherbox circuitry.

The same circuitry pattern that protects people from Anti-life on a machine that happens to be able to calculate the life equation: coincidence? nope.

There's an obvious connection, so I'm surprised you jumped all over DS' cargo-cult motherboxx description. It seems to already have a connection to those devices and the life equation, and the x-element which powers mb's as well.

Originally posted by Mindset
The fan made site? Might as well start using wiki as proof.

Originally posted by Allankles
I've already told you. It's a foreshadowing of the god-weapon (the miracle machine) and happens to share the same design pattern as Metron's motherbox circuitry.Still dodging, so I'll spell it out for you. The symbol is not a representation of a motherbox. There have been motherboxes depicted on-panel in Final Crisis that do not share the distinctive pattern that Metron's suit shows:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/th_Anti-Life30.jpg http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/th_Anti-Life31.jpg

Not only that, but I have yet to confirm that Metron's motherbox is woven into his suit's pattern. I know Shilo Norman's motherboxxx was woven into the shoulder of his suit for most of Seven Soldiers: Mr. Miracle, but what is your source that Metron's was? Because later on in Final Crisis, we actually do see Metron's motherbox and yet he still retains his suit pattern:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/th_Anti-Life32.jpg http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/th_Anti-Life33.jpg

From the above, it should be clear that the pattern does not represent a motherbox. There is no motherbox we've seen that actually has that pattern on it. Your assertion that Metron's suit pattern is a motherbox is unsupported speculation at this point that is contradicted by the emergence of Metron's motherbox in Final Crisis #5. Even if you could prove Metron's old motherbox used to be his suit's circuitry pattern, it is still not dispositive of the pattern representing something else. So what does the pattern represent?

^ continued Originally posted by Allankles
The same circuitry pattern that protects people from Anti-life on a machine that happens to be able to calculate the life equation: coincidence? nope.You're exactly right to point out the striking coincidence that the pattern itself protects against Anti-Life and a machine that resembles the pattern calculates the Life Equation directly. These two things should have led you to conclude that the pattern actually represents the Life Equation, not a motherbox! Think about it, Metron and Kamandi and Shilo Norman all state in one way or another, that the pattern itself is a representation of power, i.e. knowledge, a weapon against the Gods, letter from the New Gods:

1) Metron states that it is "knowledge," which manifests itself as fire, or the flame of humanity:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/th_Anti-Life28.jpg

It makes no sense that fire, or the flame of humanity, is a manifestation of a motherbox. It makes more sense that fire, or the flame of humanity, is a manifestation of the Life Equation.

2) Kamandi shouts that Metron actually gave Anthro a "weapon against the Gods." And on Anthro's face, we see the same pattern:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/th_Anti-Life29.jpg

Metron obviously did not give Anthro a motherbox. It makes no sense that Kamandi is referring to a motherbox. But he may have bestowed upon him, the Life Equation. Think about this also: Grant Morrison characterized the Anti-Life Equation as a weapon/artifact from the higher vibratory plane of the New Gods in Final Crisis: Secret Files. So the Life Equation's characterization as a weapon here makes sense with Morrison's conceptualization of the ALE as a weapon; so is the LE.

3) Shilo Norman states, "It appears to be a letter from the alphabet of the New Gods, a living symbol that means 'freedom from restriction,' that protects against Anti-Life:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/th_Anti-Life27.jpg

It makes no sense that this letter represents a motherbox. A motherbox might be able to protect against Anti-Life, but a motherbox itself does not mean 'freedom from restriction.' So what could this freedom from restriction be? Well isn't it obvious by now? It could be, and most logically is: the Life Equation. And simply drawing a letter that represents the Life Equation protects against Anti-Life.Originally posted by Allankles
There's an obvious connection, so I'm surprised you jumped all over DS' cargo-cult motherboxx description. It seems to already have a connection to those devices and the life equation, and the x-element which powers mb's as well. The obvious connection was staring you int eh face and you missed it because you wanted to support a faulty interpretation that the Miracle Machine was a motherbox. It isn't. And Element X is a necessary part of the Miracle Machine. That doesn't necessarily suggest that it is a motherbox. Because on-panel, John Stewart's GL ring was also necessary for the Miracle Machine:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/th_Anti-Life34.jpg

And the necessity for John Stewart's GL ring perfectly supports that the Miracle Machine is Controller-refined Oan technology as stated by Braniac-5 in Final Crisis #6:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/th_Anti-Life35.jpg

The Miracle Machine is not a motherbox. Darkseid's snide off-hand comment does nothing to prove it is based ont he overwhelming evidence above. And the Miracle Machine's feat > any feat of a motherbox's in Final Crisis. The original issue that started this whole mess of a debate. Nuff said.

So in closing we have:
Thanos W/IG > Darkseidw/ Ale right? That's what I'm going with.

I <3 OneDumbGo.

Originally posted by LDHZenkai
So in closing we have:
Thanos W/IG > Darkseidw/ Ale right? That's what I'm going with. This is spite.

Originally posted by LDHZenkai
So in closing we have:
Thanos W/IG > Darkseidw/ Ale right? That's what I'm going with.

You forgot a couple of >>>>

This is a spite thread.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0


The Miracle Machine is not a motherbox. Darkseid's snide off-hand comment does nothing to prove it is based ont he overwhelming evidence above. And the Miracle Machine's feat > any feat of a motherbox's in Final Crisis. The original issue that started this whole mess of a debate. Nuff said.

A lot said, but hardly nuff. The symbol is in fact also metron's motherbox circuitry which is in fact grafted into his suit. It is referred to as a circuit pattern in the same FC you mentioned. Given by Miracle to the Tatoo'd man who later gives it to the heroes in the watch tower.

Point is the symbol has several meanings, but it is also the motherbox circuitry on Metron's suit. I know the template the controllers used, no one said it was an mb, merely that it was like one, a cargo-cult version.

This whole debate about DS's comments is asinine, why would you waste your time arguing against fictional terminologies? The statement was thrown in there by Morrison, you're basically arguing against the same authors descriptions. We don't know what makes an MB really, except they have connection to the Source and are sentient computers.

The words used are entirely meaningless in this case. Motherboxes have never had clearly defined functions and vary from creator to creator.

Originally posted by Allankles
A lot said, but hardly nuff. The symbol is in fact also metron's motherbox circuitry which is in fact grafted into his suit. It is referred to as a circuit pattern in the same FC you mentioned. Given by Miracle to the Tatoo'd man who later gives it to the heroes in the watch tower.Black Lightning gave it to him and it was never revealed how he obtained it. Mr. Miracle never met Tatooed Man. facepalmOriginally posted by Allankles
... no one said it was an mb, merely that it was like one, a cargo-cult version....Actually, this guy said it was a motherbox, maybe you should clarify the issue with him:Originally posted by Allankles
Also the Miracle Machine is a motherbox with a single function. Originally posted by Allankles
It was a type of motherbox (there are several types). It was designed by the controllers but it has a relation to Metron, even having the motherbox symbol at its front. dur

You have no proof that Metron's suit pattern is his motherbox. I already posted scans of Metron holding his motherbox on the previous page. You have no support and you haven't addressed the on-panel contradictions of your assumptions. You're making mistakes as to the story's facts and you've been contradicting yourself. Scrutinizing the flow of your argumentation is like watching a horrible car crash in slow motion. Please stop.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Scrutinizing the flow of your argumentation is like watching a horrible car crash in slow motion. Please stop.

Wow.

SPITE
ALE>>>>>>>>>>>>>>IG

ALE means Absolute control over sentient beings
How can u fight something when u have no will
true IG gives virtually infinite of a lot
but it does not give u infinite will
DARKSEID speaks Thanos falls

Originally posted by manx422
ALE means Absolute control over sentient beings
How can u fight something when u have no will
true IG gives virtually infinite of a lot
but it does not give u infinite will
DARKSEID speaks Thanos falls Because having complete control over the mind and the soul would do nothing to help the individual.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Black Lightning gave it to him and it was never revealed how he obtained it. Mr. Miracle never met Tatooed Man. facepalmActually, this guy said it was a motherbox, maybe you should clarify the issue with him: dur

You have no proof that Metron's suit pattern is his motherbox. I already posted scans of Metron holding his motherbox on the previous page. You have no support and you haven't addressed the on-panel contradictions of your assumptions. You're making mistakes as to the story's facts and you've been contradicting yourself. Scrutinizing the flow of your argumentation is like watching a horrible car crash in slow motion. Please stop.

Originally posted by manx422
ALE means Absolute control over sentient beings
How can u fight something when u have no will
true IG gives virtually infinite of a lot
but it does not give u infinite will
DARKSEID speaks Thanos falls Thanos has the soul and the mind gem. The ale also doesn't work on those "wired differently." It's been downgraded. At least Morrison did something right.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Black Lightning gave it to him and it was never revealed how he obtained it. Mr. Miracle never met Tatooed Man. facepalmActually, this guy said it was a motherbox, maybe you should clarify the issue with him: dur

You have no proof that Metron's suit pattern is his motherbox. I already posted scans of Metron holding his motherbox on the previous page. You have no support and you haven't addressed the on-panel contradictions of your assumptions. You're making mistakes as to the story's facts and you've been contradicting yourself. Scrutinizing the flow of your argumentation is like watching a horrible car crash in slow motion. Please stop.

It was not a Mother Box in Metrons hand it was an average Rubik Cube. The suit Tatooed Man has on seems to have a small Mother Box (circuitry) in it. The suit was shown to do a few things like destroying a force field and was going to transport Ray back to Earth. New God tech is the most advanced in the DCU, stated many times.