SBP vs Juggernaut

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manx422
a being immune to magic vs a bearer of magical shields
will juggernaut survive
he wins if time exceeds 12 hours evil face

chomperx9
Originally posted by manx422
a being immune to magic vs a bearer of magical shields
will juggernaut survive
he wins if time exceeds 12 hours evil face which juggernaut ?

manx422
Latest version

Slaanesh
Jugg will not survive..his magical shields will break before the awesomeness of Prime fist..Prime will punch him into submission..

manx422
no juggy fans here

Slaanesh
they know Jugg don't stand a chance here..

Enyalus
So, all Juggernaut has to do is survive? Is there no BFR or something?

'Cause...Juggernaut's not going to be killed by Prime's punches or HV...

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by Slaanesh
Jugg will not survive..his magical shields will break before the awesomeness of Prime fist..Prime will punch him into submission.. Why would Juggernaut's shields break?

Slaanesh
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Why would Juggernaut's shields break?

cuz Prime punch it no expression

Survivor19
Cain will play on Prime's sense of superiority, challenging him to trade blow for blow. Then he wins. )

D_Dude1210
Stalemate. Can't see SBP breaching Jugz's shields but can't see Cain hurting SBP either.

xJLxKing
SBP bfr's him, or takes his helmet off and HV him. Then proceeds to punch him in his face

Sin I AM
what is hv to the face going to do to cain might i ask?

iceman24567
Originally posted by Sin I AM
what is hv to the face going to do to cain might i ask? Give him one hell of a sun burn eek!

xJLxKing
Originally posted by Sin I AM
what is hv to the face going to do to cain might i ask?
It will hit him. His HV is strong enough (while depowered) to pierce Superman's torso.

chomperx9
make it 8th day juggy and we got a better fight

Sin I AM
juggernauts durability > clarks mid section

xJLxKing
Originally posted by Sin I AM
juggernauts durability > clarks mid section
thumb up but my point still stands. Prime HV will hurt Juggernaut.

iceman24567
Originally posted by xJLxKing
thumb up but my point still stands. Prime HV will hurt Juggernaut. nah

Wei Phoenix
Originally posted by xJLxKing
SBP bfr's him, or takes his helmet off and HV him. Then proceeds to punch him in his face

Yes because his helmet protects him from HV. Taking his helmet off and HVing him won't do anything. No BFR means Prime can't win. Cain uses these 12 hours to do his taxes.

Sin I AM
^ my point is that it wont

Wei Phoenix
Originally posted by xJLxKing
thumb up but my point still stands. Prime HV will hurt Juggernaut.

Not really.

http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/qq2/Wei-Phoenix/scan0001.jpg

http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/qq2/Wei-Phoenix/CainSkeleton.jpg

Hyperion Prime
Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Not really.

http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/qq2/Wei-Phoenix/scan0001.jpg

http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/qq2/Wei-Phoenix/CainSkeleton.jpg

I was going to post that!!!!! Thanks !!! It's getting harder to be on this forum. A lot of people are just talking out of their behinds.

LDHZenkai
Yea Juggernaut isn't affected by heat. Unless superboy primes heat vision is magical on the level of a god? So if there's a 12 hour time limit that SBP has to take out Juggs juggeranuts going to win. Unless SBP is allowed to BFR.

Lord Feron
SBP gets a new plaything. But he won't be hurting juggs in the slightest. Juggs wins, the time limit isn't even a factor here.

iceman24567
Originally posted by Lord Feron
SBP gets a new plaything. But he won't be hurting juggs in the slightest. Juggs wins, the time limit isn't even a factor here. How would juggs go about beating Prime?

Lord Feron
Originally posted by iceman24567
How would juggs go about beating Prime?

by surviving the challenge durrr!! All he has to do is last 12 hrs. not hard. Hell give SBP all the time he wants... result will be the same.

iceman24567
Originally posted by Lord Feron
by surviving the challenge durrr!! All he has to do is last 12 hrs. not hard. Hell give SBP all the time he wants... result will be the same. I doubt his shields would last forever while being pummeled on by i guy that can break shields like their made of sticks but 12 hours maybe....

psycho gundam
juggy might get retconned.

iceman24567
Originally posted by psycho gundam
juggy might get retconned. Thats actually what i was thinking eek!

shokosugi
SBP kills this guy.

iceman24567
Originally posted by shokosugi
SBP kills this guy. Anybody with an S on their chests wins in your mind no expression

Nestical
Originally posted by shokosugi
SBP kills this guy.

more proving youre an idiot huh? juggs passes this. hv wont do sh@t,even in the face.

Nestical
Originally posted by iceman24567
Anybody with an S on their chests wins in your mind no expression

what if they have an S on their waist? laughing

iceman24567
Originally posted by Nestical
more proving youre an idiot huh? juggs passes this. hv wont do sh@t,even in the face. More proving your a flaming troll huh?

Nestical
youre one to talk,my posting here had nothing to do with him.plus im just stating fact.youre in the same boat my sad little friend

shokosugi
SBP = resistance to magic

Juggernauts powers = magical

Juggernut dies.



why is this so hard to understand?????????

Wei Phoenix
Originally posted by iceman24567
I doubt his shields would last forever while being pummeled on by i guy that can break shields like their made of sticks but 12 hours maybe....

He doesn't need his FF. Fought many others without it. The FF isn't the source of his invulnerability.

Originally posted by shokosugi
SBP = resistance to magic

Juggernauts powers = magical

Juggernut dies.



why is this so hard to understand?????????

Juggernaut=Invulnerable so he can't die.

Kris Blaze
Originally posted by shokosugi
SBP kills this guy.

The Pict
SPB can bfr Juggernaut. Otherwise it's a stalemate I think.

jalek moye
Prime Bfrs him extremly easy. but besides that he can't win, hes not a telepath. So unless he has some anti cyttorak power hes not winning besides BFR

KuRuPT Thanosi
Juggs wins but gets knocked around silly in the process till the 12 hours is up. Prime isn't killing Juggs. Period

Enyalus
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Juggs wins but gets knocked around silly in the process till the 12 hours is up.

QFT.


Prime absolutely walks all over Cain physically, but he has zero chance of actually killing Cain. So Juggs wins this challenge.

shokosugi
Without magic Juggs is nothing.

SBP = invulnerable to magic. JUGGS goes down crying like a little *****.

Draco69
I wouldn't be completely surprised if SBP somehow smashed through Jugg's shields.

He seems able to do anything simply by punching it....

Enyalus
Originally posted by shokosugi
Without magic Juggs is nothing.

SBP = invulnerable to magic. JUGGS goes down crying like a little *****.

SBP's going to negate Cyttorak's enchantment now? Granted, if you were to say that his shields won't be a problem to get through, or if he tried to do something magically to Prime it wouldn't work...but, SBP negating Juggernaut being invulnerable simply because its magic?

Not workin'.

jalek moye
Originally posted by shokosugi
Without magic Juggs is nothing.

SBP = invulnerable to magic. JUGGS goes down crying like a little *****.
juggs is invulnerable to physical harm. So prime can't drop him, him being magic doesnt mean anything

LDHZenkai
Originally posted by shokosugi
Without magic Juggs is nothing.

SBP = invulnerable to magic. JUGGS goes down crying like a little *****.
Since when did juggs lose his magic again? Juggs doesn't use magic to beat people he uses his magically enhanced body to do that. So unless SBP can now stop Cyttoraks magic from flowing into Juggs he's not winning. He could punch him as much as he wants it wont matter. He cant be hurt by physical means. And SBP doesn't have magic, at least not anywhere near the level needed to actually kill Juggernaut (being as there is apparently no way to do so b/c we've seen him burnt down to his bones and he still came back and won the fight). So please quit being such a Superman DC fanboy. It makes you sound ignorant in every post you make that has anything to do with superman.

Slaanesh
Prime will punch through jugg shield..it's what he does for a living..punch through shield and barrier..

Enyalus
Originally posted by Slaanesh
Prime will punch through jugg shield..it's what he does for a living..punch through shield and barrier..
Definitely. But that's going to do what, exactly?

jalek moye
Originally posted by Slaanesh
Prime will punch through jugg shield..it's what he does for a living..punch through shield and barrier..
the shields not what makes him invulnerable though, he still can't beat him by punching.

LDHZenkai
Yea it really doesn't matter if you punch through his shield. he still can't be physically harmed. Or killed.

Slaanesh
Originally posted by jalek moye
the shields not what makes him invulnerable though, he still can't beat him by punching.

it's not??i thought the gem gave him the shield which makes him invulnerable..i guess i'm wrong then laughing

Enyalus
Originally posted by Slaanesh
it's not??i thought the gem gave him the shield which makes him invulnerable..i guess i'm wrong then laughing
The gem makes him invulnerable and gives him the shield.

The shield isn't the cause of his invulnerability. The gem is.

LDHZenkai
Originally posted by Slaanesh
it's not??i thought the gem gave him the shield which makes him invulnerable..i guess i'm wrong then..
classic juggs shield made him that way. current juggs just has a shield for extra durability.

jalek moye
Originally posted by Slaanesh
it's not??i thought the gem gave him the shield which makes him invulnerable..i guess i'm wrong then..
the gem makes his body invulnerable, the sheilds can be broken they just add extra protection from the things that can harm him. None of which are physical power

Slaanesh
but but...Prime punch his way out of the PZ..that's a dimensional barrier..i'm sure he can work through that invulnerability..

shokosugi
SBP is going to do to Juggs what he did to Black Adam

Mekrob
Originally posted by shokosugi
SBP is going to do to Juggs what he did to Black Adam move him?

shokosugi
no. slap him in the face like a little *****.

jalek moye
Originally posted by shokosugi
no. slap him in the face like a little *****.
i wont hurt him though. Juggernuat is immune to phsyical harm

shokosugi
is this the Juggs that's supposed to be unbeatable?

http://www.elracano.com/include/jug/juggernaut13.jpg

jalek moye
So you think that primes gonna yell in his ear and beat him?

shokosugi
oh look no helmet.

http://www.elracano.com/include/jug/juggernaut05.jpg

jalek moye
Originally posted by shokosugi
oh look no helmet.

http://www.elracano.com/include/jug/juggernaut05.jpg
Yea that would work, but prime doesnt have telepathy so he cant use that tactic

shokosugi
is that the undefeatable Juggernaut in COMATOSe state for months???

http://www.elracano.com/include/jug/juggernaut06.jpg

jalek moye
how about you respond to me

shokosugi
now you see him. now you dont.

http://www.elracano.com/include/jug/juggernaut07.jpg

shokosugi
so that's how an old Jugg looks like

http://www.elracano.com/include/jug/juggernaut09.jpg

Enyalus
Shokosugi, most people agree that SBP brutally beats his ass. But Juggs isn't being killed or KO'd by that force. So in this contest (which is basically Can Juggernaut survive for 12 hours), Cain wins.

But there's no question Cain would get slapped around like a todler.

shokosugi
i didn't know Juggs can't swim. ROFL! OWNED!

http://www.elracano.com/include/jug/juggernaut11.jpg

shokosugi
holy crap! the "unstopable" Juggernaut was STOPPED. ANNIHILIATED.

KO'ed.

OWNED.


but but....this can't be!!

http://www.elracano.com/include/jug/juggernaut19.jpg

Mindset
shoko stfu

shokosugi
what is this? Juggernaut getting OWNED again???

http://www.elracano.com/include/jug/juggernaut27.jpg

Enyalus
Has shokosugi found, like, a Hulk fanboy site?

shokosugi
Originally posted by shokosugi

http://www.elracano.com/include/jug/juggernaut19.jpg

this is my favorite. Happy Dance

iceman24567
lol he's a mad man i tell you

ThunderGodEneru
Technically doesn't this count as trolling?

And Prime cannot kill Juggernaut, certainly not in 12 hours, he is no doubt magnitudes superior overall, but he cannot KO him.

LDHZenkai
Originally posted by shokosugi
i didn't know Juggs can't swim. ROFL! OWNED!

http://www.elracano.com/include/jug/juggernaut11.jpg
lol so you found 3 scans of PIS ways of Juggs getting KO'd? Should someone go start posting the hundreds of scans of Juggs not be affecting by higher feats? Current Juggernaut cannot be beaten by physical means. You posting scans of Prof X beating the old juggs is retarded. SBP isn't a powerful psychic.

Wei Phoenix
Originally posted by Slaanesh
but but...Prime punch his way out of the PZ..that's a dimensional barrier..i'm sure he can work through that invulnerability..

Trion did the same thing.

Wei Phoenix
Originally posted by shokosugi
what is this? Juggernaut getting OWNED again???

http://www.elracano.com/include/jug/juggernaut27.jpg

Oh yeah this is depowered Juggernaut getting beat. BFD.

shokosugi
http://www.elracano.com/include/jug/juggernaut19.jpg


if someone can do this to him.


SBP can do that to him too.

Wei Phoenix
Originally posted by shokosugi
http://www.elracano.com/include/jug/juggernaut19.jpg


if someone can do this to him.


SBP can do that to him too.

Yeah because SBP is the greatest character ever. If a dog can bite SBP and hurt him then so can Cain.

Survivor19
shokosugi, looks like you forgot to post the scan of Onslaught ripping the jem outta him, huh?

Slaanesh
many people can hurt Prime..but no one can put him down..there's a different..

Wei Phoenix
Originally posted by Slaanesh
many people can hurt Prime..but no one can put him down..there's a different..

Many people can try to hurt Cain physically...but no one can outside of PIS...there's a difference. Also Superman put him down after they ran through a red sun.

Slaanesh
Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Many people can try to hurt Cain physically...but no one can outside of PIS...there's a difference. Also Superman put him down after they ran through a red sun.

those people are not Prime..Prime punch is a force that can't be stop..

dude..that's a Prime without power no expression

LDHZenkai
Originally posted by shokosugi

if someone can do this to him.


SBP can do that to him too.

yet someone did this to him and he didn't get KO'd

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/sifu1/mystic1.jpg

On here we go by highest feats right? Not lowest PIS ones.

LDHZenkai
Originally posted by Slaanesh
those people are not Prime..Prime punch is a force that can't be stop..

dude..that's a Prime without power no expression
lol so b/c superman is superman he can knock Juggernaut out? You're almost as funny as shokosugi. Little less fanboyism little more thought please.

Slaanesh
Originally posted by LDHZenkai
lol so b/c superman is superman he can knock Juggernaut out? You're almost as funny as shokosugi. Little less fanboyism little more thought please.

Prime punch have been shown to break almost anything..even a dimensional barrier..

Mindset
How much strength did that take?

Slaanesh
how the hell would i know no expression

Mindset
My point exactly.

Slaanesh
what's your point exactly??

LDHZenkai
Originally posted by Slaanesh
Prime punch have been shown to break almost anything..even a dimensional barrier..
Juggernaut did that before too. There's lots of PIS in comics. Still doesn't matter b/c Juggernaut is virtually invulnerable.

KingD19
Juggernaut punched through a dimension as well, a good couple years before SBP was created I think, so what does that get you now?

Mindset
Originally posted by Slaanesh
what's your point exactly?? That you don't know your ass from your elbow.

Slaanesh
Originally posted by LDHZenkai
Juggernaut did that before too. There's lots of PIS in comics. Still doesn't matter b/c Juggernaut is virtually invulnerable.

wasn't that Trion Jugg??Supes is virtually invulnerable too..but if u hit him with enough force..he still got hurt...

Wei Phoenix
Originally posted by Slaanesh
those people are not Prime..Prime punch is a force that can't be stop..

dude..that's a Prime without power no expression

Cain is also a force that can't be stopped.

Slaanesh
Originally posted by Mindset
That you don't know your ass from your elbow.

i don't??ok..whatever makes u happy...

Wei Phoenix
Originally posted by Slaanesh
wasn't that Trion Jugg??Supes is virtually invulnerable too..but if u hit him with enough force..he still got hurt...

Superman has been hurt many times so no he isn't virtually invulnerable.

LDHZenkai
Originally posted by Slaanesh
wasn't that Trion Jugg??Supes is virtually invulnerable too..but if u hit him with enough force..he still got hurt...
Oh well that's cool. If you hit Juggernaut hard enough he doesn't get hurt. That's my entire point. He also never tires, never gets hungry doesn't need to breath eat or sleep. Pretty much he can only be killed with someone who has magical powers beyond Cyttoraks.

h1a8
Was the Onslaught incident pis?
Is Cain totally indestructible to physical force?

psycho gundam
Originally posted by h1a8
Was the Onslaught incident pis?
Is Cain totally indestructible to physical force? yes.

and with his shield up yes.

kgkg
Originally posted by Slaanesh
what's your point exactly?? If you had no idea how much force it would require how can you be sure it will K.O/Beat Juggs?

Also other characters with similar or better feats than that have failed to K.O juggs before.

I believe that was the thing Mindset was getting at.

Slaanesh
Originally posted by kgkg
If you had no idea how much force it would require how can you be sure it will K.O/Beat Juggs?

Also other characters with similar or better feats than that have failed to K.O juggs before.

I believe that was the thing Mindset was getting at.

how can u be sure it won't beat Jugg??Prime never punch him..so..i just assume thing according to what Prime has done..

KingD19
Jugs has only been ko'd by extreme magic, telepathy, sonics, and Onslaught. And Onslaught was basically a god, and he only knocked Juggs after he ripped the gem out of his body, which I'm not even sure should have been in him. Then he knocked him from Canada to Jersey.

And we can be sure it won't beat Juggs because his powers are Invulnerability to harm(with or without the forcefield), unstoppable once in motion, and he can basically be as strong as he needs to be.

kgkg
Originally posted by Slaanesh
how can u be sure it won't beat Jugg??Prime never punch him..so..i just assume thing according to what Prime has done.. Because he has taken similar damage and was fine before.

Thor's power output etc.

Wei Phoenix
Originally posted by Slaanesh
how can u be sure it won't beat Jugg??Prime never punch him..so..i just assume thing according to what Prime has done..

No punch has ever hurt Cain.

Slaanesh
Originally posted by kgkg
Because he has taken similar damage and was fine before.

Thor's power output etc.

Prime has taken a universe destroying blast to the face before..and only got KO..can we assume anything lest than that won't KO him??

KingD19
Nothing will KO Juggernaut except things that attack what his invulnerability doesn't cover. His mind, his inner ear, extremely overpowering magic.

Mindset
Originally posted by Slaanesh
Prime has taken a universe destroying blast to the face before..and only got KO..can we assume anything lest than that won't KO him?? Yup, exactly the same situation.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by KingD19
Nothing will KO Juggernaut except things that attack what his invulnerability doesn't cover. His mind, his inner ear, extremely overpowering magic. pretty much.

kgkg
Originally posted by Slaanesh
Prime has taken a universe destroying blast to the face before..and only got KO..can we assume anything lest than that won't KO him?? No because he has been K.O'ed by less before.

Now has Jugg been K.O by physical force = Prime before?

KingD19
The only thing close to physical force that ko'd Juggs was Onslaught, and he was a psionic being in essence, so the punch may not have been purely physical, plus he ripped the gem out of Cain's chest.

shokosugi
Originally posted by KingD19
The only thing close to physical force that ko'd Juggs was Onslaught, and he was a psionic being in essence, so the punch may not have been purely physical, plus he ripped the gem out of Cain's chest.

Wrong. The Exemplars defeated Juggernaut with physical attacks.

Wei Phoenix
Originally posted by shokosugi
Wrong. The Exemplars defeated Juggernaut with physical attacks.

No they eventually removed his helmet with all of their combined might and Bedlam mind blasted him.

shokosugi
yeah you're right they eventually took his helmet out.

Wei Phoenix
Originally posted by shokosugi
yeah you're right they eventually took his helmet out.

Yeah I know I'm right, nice to see you admitting it for once.

shokosugi
Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Yeah I know I'm right, nice to see you admitting it for once.


but that's physical attacks (removing his helmet) + mind blast


so....we're both right Happy Dance

KingD19
And Shokosugi? His helmet has been knocked off before, all that does is make him vulnerable to mental and sonic attack. You can still try to physically hurt him and it will do diddly squat.

Wei Phoenix
Not really.

KingD19
What?

Mindset
Originally posted by shokosugi
but that's physical attacks (removing his helmet) + mind blast


so....we're both right Happy Dance
A mind blast isn't a physical attack.

shokosugi
there was a lot more than the mind blast.

Mindset
Doesn't change the fact that a mind blast isn't a physical attack.

shokosugi
i didnt say that was a physical attack. i said the "removing the helmet" part WAS THE physical attack. and i was half-joking you big dummy. stick out tongue

chomperx9
Originally posted by shokosugi
i didnt say that was a physical attack. i said the "removing the helmet" part WAS THE physical attack. and i was half-joking you big dummy. stick out tongue only half sad

Mindset
So we agree they didn't defeat him with physical attacks, ok.

Wei Phoenix
Originally posted by Mindset
So we agree they didn't defeat him with physical attacks, ok.

Your new avatar and sig is hilarious.

shokosugi
physical attacks AND mind blast smile

Mindset
Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Your new avatar and sig is hilarious. lol thanks

How I Met Your Mother is a hilarious show

KingD19
No, they defeated his helmet with physical attacks.

Wei Phoenix
Originally posted by Mindset
lol thanks

How I Met Your Mother is a hilarious show

Yeah NPH rocks.

shokosugi
i think NPH can defeat Juggs

KingD19
NPH can defeat Chuck Norris. I loved when he ate all those mushrooms in Harold and Kumar 2. HOLY CRAP DID YOU SEE THAT UNICRON??!!!! IT'S HORN WAS SO....sparkly....

Wei Phoenix
Originally posted by KingD19
NPH can defeat Chuck Norris. I loved when he ate all those mushrooms in Harold and Kumar 2. HOLY CRAP DID YOU SEE THAT UNICRON??!!!! IT'S HORN WAS SO....sparkly....

Did you watch after the credits?

KingD19
Yes.

LDHZenkai
Originally posted by KingD19
NPH can defeat Chuck Norris. I loved when he ate all those mushrooms in Harold and Kumar 2. HOLY CRAP DID YOU SEE THAT UNICRON??!!!! IT'S HORN WAS SO....sparkly....
NPH is def. the worlds best actor. "ladies watchout Longhorns coming through"

nicamarvin
Originally posted by xJLxKing
It will hit him. His HV is strong enough (while depowered) to pierce Superman's torso.

jaja...since when is supes or any supes more durable than juggs?? and why are talking about his FF? heck put the guy naked and the same will happen...after the 12 hours he will say to SBP...thats all ya got!!!!

shokosugi
supes is way more durable than juggs.

jalek moye
Originally posted by shokosugi
supes is way more durable than juggs.
umm no. Juggernuat =immune to phsyical harm

LDHZenkai
Originally posted by shokosugi
supes is way more durable than juggs.
Superman can die if he's in a red sun right? Theres also been panels showing him getting dehydrated from Nuclear bombs. Juggernaut cannot be hurt by any of that. A red sun could blow up with juggernaut inside of it and he wouldn't get scratched. So how does that make superman more durable?

xJLxKing
Originally posted by LDHZenkai
Superman can die if he's in a red sun right? Theres also been panels showing him getting dehydrated from Nuclear bombs. Juggernaut cannot be hurt by any of that. A red sun could blow up with juggernaut inside of it and he wouldn't get scratched. So how does that make superman more durable?
You are basically making Superman Depowered. Juggernaut is only more durable when it comes to Physical.

LDHZenkai
Originally posted by xJLxKing
You are basically making Superman Depowered. Juggernaut is only more durable when it comes to Physical.
Which is what this is. a physical contest. juggernaut cannot be physically hurt by any means. My point was superman can. Yet all the superman fanboys keep trying to say he's more durable. SBP is super strong for sure, but juggernaut cannot be hurt by someone no matter how strong they are.

shokosugi
yeah and Juggs becomes totally useless without a frickin helmet.

jalek moye
Originally posted by shokosugi
yeah and Juggs becomes totally useless without a frickin helmet.
umm no ur an idiot for even saying that. All the helmet does is protect him form telepaths. Is superman a telepath now?

shokosugi
SS = useless without board
Thor = useless without Mjolnir
Juggs = useless without Helmet

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by shokosugi
Juggs = useless without Helmet

Thanks to SBPs immense telepathic abilities, right?

jalek moye
Originally posted by shokosugi
SS = useless without board
Thor = useless without Mjolnir
Juggs = useless without Helmet
surfer can do anything without the board that he can do with it

Thor doesn't need his hammer , it just helps him channel but the powers are in him.

And juggs helmet doesnt give him any powers at all

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