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Mad Jim Jaspers vs Emperor Joker

In cosmic twist of fate, they accidentally merge their 2 universes together. Only one can rule, so they decide to fight it out.

Both at their strongest levels/showings and both being as insane as they were then.

****. This is tough.

If EJ destroys reality in one dimension or something, then teleports him there, he wins. But, that 'weakness' of MJJ's isn't common knowledge and wouldn't be known by EJ. I don't even know why he'd think about using it.

I'm gonna go MJJ because I like him more, and uh...*shrug* That's basically it.

Flip a coin.

Feat-wise, I'd say EJ.

Originally posted by Galan007
Feat-wise, I'd say EJ.
Using what characters do on panel to determine winners is stupid.

Especially when the MU is infinitely more infinitely powerful than DCU. I've done the calculations.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Especially when the MU is infinitely more infinitely powerful than DCU. I've done the calculations. Hm. You make a good point. ermmnone

Originally posted by Enyalus
Using what characters do on panel to determine winners is stupid.

Dammit Eny, I don't think ppl will fall for that again. It's just too soon.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Dammit Eny, I don't think ppl will fall for that again. It's just too soon.

No look, I can prove it:

Superman vs. Galactus. Who wins? Galactus is the sensible answer, right? Now lets go by feats and see where that line of reasoning takes us:

Superman has traveled 25 lightyears in the time it takes to say about four sentences. That means he's millions of times faster than light. Superman has vibrated intangible in combat against Doomsday, and has also vibrated to match specific universal frequencies to stop dimensions from collapsing. That means he can't be hit. Superman's lifted a book with infinite mass with help from Captain Marvel. But half of infinity is still infinity. Plus, Ultraman who is roughly equal to Superman and whom Superman has beaten in the space lifted it by himself. That means Superman has infinite strength. Superman is durable enough to fly through black holes and double-black holes like they're made of bubble gum. That means he's more durable than...um, stars?

"But Eny what about Supes' weaknesses lulz!?" Okay. Superman has been struck with a blast of red solar radiation right in the chest by a nebula-sized monster (Sun Eater) and was still powerful enough to toss an entropy bomb at it and escape the explosion at FTL speeds. "Ur forgetting about K-nite, Eny!?" Okay. Superman's had his blood transmuted into Kryptonite by Cosmic King. Superman fought through it and one-shot him.

Superman's also resisted top tier matter manipulation, reality manipulation, and psychic manipulation - sometimes at the universal-scale level.





Let's review, shall we: Superman is millions of times FTL with infinite strength and his weaknesses don't mean a damn thing. He can't lose to Galactus.




dur But he does. Damn. Feats suck.

^ Don't forget about Supes saving the omniverse, by vibrating.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ Don't forget about Supes saving the omniverse, by vibrating.
I made that reference in my post. Just not in the way the fanboy writer put it.

Originally posted by The Nuul
You seriously do not get the concept of sarcasm, do you?

Originally posted by Enyalus

If EJ destroys reality in one dimension or something,
then teleports him there, he wins.
If only that were as easy as it can be written good friend.

Destroying reality around 616 Jaspers was impossible in the Jaspers arc,
and only the Fury was able to resist Jaspers' power long enough to prevail.

(let's not forget, the Fury was Moore's plot device to defeat Jaspers)

I mean, cats seem to forget just how powerful Matrix/Merlyn was,
and Merlyn wasn't even able to touch 238 Jaspers' power,
and 616 Jaspers was on panel and in the bios FAR more powerful than 238 JJ,
so go figure.

Based on feats/potential,
MJJ > EJ all day imo.

The Jaspers

Emporer Joker

Joker.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Based on feats/potential,
MJJ > EJ all day imo.

I am not sure about potential.

Anyway, it's tie between the two. And it was also a plot device to defeat the Emperor Joker. I am leaning towards him.

Originally posted by Enyalus
No look, I can prove it:

Superman vs. Galactus. Who wins? Galactus is the sensible answer, right? Now lets go by feats and see where that line of reasoning takes us:

Superman has traveled 25 lightyears in the time it takes to say about four sentences. That means he's millions of times faster than light. Superman has vibrated intangible in combat against Doomsday, and has also vibrated to match specific universal frequencies to stop dimensions from collapsing. That means he can't be hit. Superman's lifted a book with infinite mass with help from Captain Marvel. But half of infinity is still infinity. Plus, Ultraman who is roughly equal to Superman and whom Superman has beaten in the space lifted it by himself. That means Superman has infinite strength. Superman is durable enough to fly through black holes and double-black holes like they're made of bubble gum. That means he's more durable than...um, stars?

"But Eny what about Supes' weaknesses lulz!?" Okay. Superman has been struck with a blast of red solar radiation right in the chest by a nebula-sized monster (Sun Eater) and was still powerful enough to toss an entropy bomb at it and escape the explosion at FTL speeds. "Ur forgetting about K-nite, Eny!?" Okay. Superman's had his blood transmuted into Kryptonite by Cosmic King. Superman fought through it and one-shot him.

Superman's also resisted top tier matter manipulation, reality manipulation, and psychic manipulation - sometimes at the universal-scale level.





Let's review, shall we: Superman is millions of times FTL with infinite strength and his weaknesses don't mean a damn thing. He can't lose to Galactus.




dur But he does. Damn. Feats suck.

probably one of the best post I've ever read...

Has there ever been a case in which EJ's powers didn't work? From what we know his powers work no matter what right? Nothing was able to stop them, besides a plot device. MJJ has to have reality to warp. He got beat b/c the fury was made to be able to beat mutants by himself. The fact is though that if there is no reality to warp MJJ has no power. EJ has mxy's powers. Myx's powers work without there being reality, so i'd assume EJ's would too. Of course they're both crazy so i dont think they would ever figure out how to actually kill each other. Stalemate imo.

Emperor Joker. Because the only way to take him down is something MJJ can't do. He can't exploit a psychological weakness, because there's no Batman.

His powers are not reality warping. 5D imp powers cannot be stopped by 3 dimensional reality warping. Especially given that Joker starts out with a larger scope and scale of power. MJJ eventually would have become a multiversal threat. He did not achieve this level in the comic.

Thus, Joker, who had the greater feats wins.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Emperor Joker. Because the only way to take him down is something MJJ can't do. He can't exploit a psychological weakness, because there's no Batman.

His powers are not reality warping. 5D imp powers cannot be stopped by 3 dimensional reality warping. Especially given that Joker starts out with a larger scope and scale of power. MJJ eventually would have become a multiversal threat. He did not achieve this level in the comic.

Thus, Joker, who had the greater feats wins.
He overpowered someone who had omniversal-level reality warping. Easily.

Originally posted by Enyalus
****. This is tough.

If EJ destroys reality in one dimension or something, then teleports him there, he wins. But, that 'weakness' of MJJ's isn't common knowledge and wouldn't be known by EJ. I don't even know why he'd think about using it.

I'm gonna go MJJ because I like him more, and uh...*shrug* That's basically it.

Flip a coin.

I don't see why EJ wouldn't know...after all the guy knew about the Amalgalm universe...

Originally posted by Avlon
I don't see why EJ wouldn't know...after all the guy knew about the Amalgalm universe...
So did Kyle Rayner apparently. And maybe SS.

Well, come on, it's Kyle.

Originally posted by Avlon
I don't see why EJ wouldn't know...after all the guy knew about the Amalgalm universe...

Many people forget that Mxy is, for all intents and purposes, omniscient:

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u43/Galan007/th_mxyz3.jpg

He just 'plays dumb' most of the time.


And though I'm not sure if Mxy's intelligence also transferred to Joker - as you said, he did make remarks regarding Amalgam (which is quite something.)

honest to god... Both were
Multiversal right?

I call tie cause at this level it's so much conjecture I can't even handle it.

Originally posted by Galan007


Many people forget that Mxy is, for all intents and purposes, omniscient:

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u43/Galan007/th_mxyz3.jpg

He just 'plays dumb' most of the time.


And though I'm not sure if Mxy's intelligence also transferred to Joker - as you said, he did make remarks regarding Amalgam (which is quite something.)

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/Galan_photos/ej5.jpg

He actually mentioned alot more than just Amalgam..........and Joker has some amount of medium awareness even without any powers. ermm

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
He actually mentioned alot more than just Amalgam..........and Joker has some amount of medium awareness even without any powers. ermm
Wait...that's the evidence for thinking he has knowledge of the Amalgam Universe? A general reference to the word amalgam? This after Mxy goes around creating amalgams of his own, with his own power? (Composite Superman, anyone?) The other events referenced there were DC events. In the same breath he mentions amalgam.

Tell me there's more than just that scant piece of evidence to go off of...

You guys DO know that him mentioning those things COULD just be an inside joke by some of the writers that you're reading too much into?

Yeah, I remembered Amalgam was mentioned somewhere - but that scan doesn't specifically allude to EJ talking about the Marvel/DC Amalgam universe.


Then again, Joker only referenced major events. And there's only been one major event (concerning Amalgam characters) that has ever happened. *shrug*

Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, I remembered Amalgam was mentioned somewhere - but nothing about that scan alludes to EJ talking specifically about the Marvel/DC Amalgam universe.
Okay. It just seems like if thats the only reference Joker makes to it (I've read EJ before, but don't have it and definitely don't remember specific lines such as that), then there's no reason for believing this statement:
Originally posted by Avlon
I don't see why EJ wouldn't know...after all the guy knew about the Amalgalm universe...

Kinda a large jump in logic.

Not at all. Joker has always shown some 4th wall awareness. Hell, he's actually commented that he was aware of the multiverse prior to it's being outed. He just........knew.

And enya, in case you aren't aware, ZERO HOUR AND COIE WERE RETCONNED. Nobody is supposed to know about them. Only a few people like Phantom Stranger, the New Gods, Spectre, AM, The Monitors and Psycho Pirate know. So.........how does Joker know?

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
And enya, in case you aren't aware, ZERO HOUR AND COIE WERE RETCONNED. Nobody is supposed to know about them. Only a few people like Phantom Stranger, the New Gods, Spectre, AM, The Monitors and Psycho Pirate know. So.........how does Joker know?

He's got Mxy's powers.




See, that was easy.

duryes Heh, got ya.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
duryes Heh, got ya.
And I knew that not many know about those events (Supes does now, I think?)...but retconned? That's a strange way to phrase that. At least, that's not how I picture using the word 'retcon' lol.

The previous history of the multiverse they represented was retconned. The events happened, but when you have a multiversal reset, what happened before is retconned.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
The previous history of the multiverse they represented was retconned. The events happened, but when you have a multiversal reset, what happened before is retconned.
Ah ha...okay...

So...Avlon can't use any of Superman's feats from '92 'cause it was pre ZH?




Damn. That means no gas station explosion, either.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
The previous history of the multiverse they represented was retconned. The events happened, but when you have a multiversal reset, what happened before is retconned. That's somewhat the case with COIE. It doesn't necessarily hold true with ZH, though.

Originally posted by Galan007
That's somewhat the case with COIE. It doesn't necessarily hold true with ZH, though.

Point taken. Even IC didn't change that much, cept a few things like Wondy founding the JL.

Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, I remembered Amalgam was mentioned somewhere - but that scan doesn't specifically allude to EJ talking about the Marvel/DC Amalgam universe.


Then again, Joker only referenced major events. And there's only been one major event (concerning Amalgam characters) that has ever happened. *shrug*



MJJ is best off battling someone like Dominus vs EJ.

Both MJJ and Dominus were insanely powerful and yet lost to plot device characters (Fury) and (Superman) respectively.

MJJ because of feats.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Okay. It just seems like if thats the only reference Joker makes to it (I've read EJ before, but don't have it and definitely don't remember specific lines such as that), then there's no reason for believing this statement:


Kinda a large jump in logic. Not really. He's clearly mentioning major events where the text is bolded.

Hmm...

That's still a pretty weak leap in logic IMO. In the same scan where Joker's "omniscience" is displayed, Bizarro (of all people) is explaining the situation to him. How do you guys reconcile that?

I see this more as an inside joke than evidence that the Joker is all knowing. It's a Deadpool moment.

Myxlplx once created an adapting doomsday that was powerful enough to kill him. His power certainly can create another who would beat MJJ much like the fury did. Mxylplx is far beyond MJJ. He couldn't even create his own fury to battle the other fury.

thats another good one: if MJJ238 can make the fury resistent to nulification then why dint he give himself the same resistence? then he would of survived the CN

Originally posted by illadelph12
Hmm...

That's still a pretty weak leap in logic IMO. In the same scan where Joker's "omniscience" is displayed, Bizarro (of all people) is explaining the situation to him. How do you guys reconcile that?

I see this more as an inside joke than evidence that the Joker is all knowing. It's a Deadpool moment.

IMO at the time the above mentioned incident played out Joker had yet to attain his full potential. He was at that time just dicking around on Earth. Immediately afterward is when he teleports to the cosmic realm of the Quintessence and as Darkseid is speaking warps them.

joker still wins.

Jaspers wins

Jaspers powers dont work in un-space, Mxy's powers work in real life, he was able to teleport in and out of the real world in World's Funnest. All EJ has to do is teleport Jaspers into un-space.

Oh please if Mxy teleported to the real world i would steal his hat and tea bag him

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Jaspers powers dont work in un-space, Mxy's powers work in real life, he was able to teleport in and out of the real world in World's Funnest. All EJ has to do is teleport Jaspers into un-space. Unspace for the win.

Originally posted by iceman24567
Oh please if Mxy teleported to the real world i would steal his hat and tea bag him
He only visits DC comics headquarters. They say sometimes you catch a glimpse of him there.

ej wins

Originally posted by Omega Vision
He only visits DC comics headquarters. They say sometimes you catch a glimpse of him there. Crazed old Farts....

Jaspers.

MJJ still wins here.

And as for the misunderstanding concerning crazy J and "un-space" ...
Originally posted by Mr Master
If only that were as easy as it can be written good friend.

Destroying reality around 616 Jaspers was impossible in the Jaspers arc,
and only the Fury was able to resist Jaspers' power long enough to prevail.

(let's not forget, the Fury was Moore's plot device to defeat Jaspers)

I mean, cats seem to forget just how powerful Matrix/Merlyn was,
and Merlyn wasn't even able to touch 238 Jaspers' power,
and 616 Jaspers was on panel and in the bios FAR more powerful than 238 JJ,
so go figure.

Based on feats/potential,
MJJ > EJ all day imo.

EJ.