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I would like to see where these characters stand in terms of overall fighting power, and durability. What order do you think they fall into?


Superman
Thor
Hulk
Silver Surfer
Captain Marvel
Sentry
Juggernaught
Thanos
Kon-El
Bizarro
Erradicator
Henshaw
Martian Manhunter
Wonder Woman


When I say overall fighting power, I mean who could pack the most with an incredible physical attack, not a blast. Durability, meaning who can take the most physical harm without being beheaded or something crazy. (If I'm not allowed to make a thread like this, my bad. )

base level ranking
supes
CM
Thanos
Bizzaro
WW
cyborg
Thor
eradicator
sentry
SS
hulk
kon el
juggy

Originally posted by manx422
base level ranking
supes
CM
Thanos
Bizzaro
WW
cyborg
Thor
eradicator
sentry
SS
hulk
kon el
juggy

Juggy last?

BASE LEVEL

Supes and Captain Marvel hit harder than Thanos?

WW above Thor?
No way...

Originally posted by manx422
BASE LEVEL And that means Juggs is last?

His base level is his normal levels of power.

read his hero time
he was getting his ass kicked by saquatch (big bear guy)

Thanos is first..i don't know about the others..

Originally posted by manx422
read his hero time
he was getting his ass kicked by saquatch (big bear guy) When he was a hero he was weakened, that is not base strength.

Unless of course you would like to use every other character in this thread at their weakest point.

how was he weakened
he had no amps

Cytorrak was limiting his powers because he was being good.

Originally posted by Mindset
Cytorrak was limiting his powers because he was being good.
u mean he had less amps
crytotak (cytorrak) is outside factor
what if someone killed him what would juggy do then
juggs in his hero time is what i consider his base level

Originally posted by manx422
u mean he had less amps
crytotak (cytorrak) is outside factor
what if someone killed him what would juggy do then
juggs in his hero time is what i consider his base level Then I guess the sun is an outside factor for Superman.

Let's use Superman as a normal Kryptonian and Juggs as a human, that's what you seem to want.

Supes when he doesn't have any powers is what I consider base for him.

Originally posted by manx422
u mean he had less amps
crytotak (cytorrak) is outside factor
what if someone killed him what would juggy do then
juggs in his hero time is what i consider his base level

Actually Juggernaut when he was good had some powers only due to the long time he was cannected to the crystal. This is not his base power. His base power is when he was using the crystal

crytotak is a sentient being while sun is not
he should distribute his power without discrimination like sun
it is not like sun is giving rays to supes alone everyone is getting sun's rays

Originally posted by manx422
crytotak is a sentient being while sun is not
he should distribute his power without discrimination like sun
it is not like sun is giving rays to supes alone everyone is getting sun's rays And that is completely irrelevant to it being an outside factor to Supes powers.

then what is juggy's base power
he is protected by magical shields?

Originally posted by Mindset

His base level is his normal levels of power.

It's what he shows in his comics to be...

fine reverse the order

Originally posted by manx422
fine reverse the order

Yes yes reveerse it...
and putting Diana above Thor hurts my feelings....
Don't hurt my feelings...

kon el on top
WW on last

Originally posted by Slaanesh
Thanos is first..i don't know about the others..

How is Thanos first?

Originally posted by Mindset
Cytorrak was limiting his powers because he was being good.

Actually Cyttorak himself said he wasn't limiting his powers. Cain was doing it all along. The power of Cyttorak can not be used for good. You're still right though about the whole situation and how weakened Cain isn't his base powers. Seriously Manx, Cain has been around for so many years. Why would you think his recent time as a hero would count as his base strength level?

FINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
juggy >>>>>>>>>>>>> TOAA

Originally posted by manx422
FINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
juggy >>>>>>>>>>>>> TOAA

Thats a false statement. Calm down man don't take it so personal. You're not TOAA.

Originally posted by manx422
fine reverse the order

Cain stronger than Superman? Come on now dude. Reversing the order makes it look even worse.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Thats a false statement. Calm down man don't take it so personal. You're not TOAA.
But it is true what can TOAA do to JUGGY

Originally posted by manx422
But it is true what can TOAA do to JUGGY

Maybe write him out of existence? How about what can Cain do to TOAA? We both know nothing if you want to hear me say Cain loses so bad then all you have to do is ask me.

I thought Thanos should be first too. Then comes like Superman, Thor, WW....I dunno though. I just want to see where others stand.


***

Add DoS Doomsday, Gladiator, Darkseid, and Sentry to the list as well.

Originally posted by manx422
But it is true what can TOAA do to JUGGY

Quoted for stupidity, infact im putting it on a t-shirt.

Originally posted by Warlord
Actually Juggernaut when he was good had some powers only due to the long time he was cannected to the crystal. This is not his base power. His base power is when he was using the crystal

This is so inarguable incorrect it scarcely needs responding to...

The Crystal is Cytorrak's power. Classic Juggernaut is "base" power level- during his time with Excalibur (and, for instance), his first fight with World War Hulk, he was operating at extremely below normal power levels. Cytorrak was limiting the power he derived from the crystal during that period.

Originally posted by Jynocidus



Superman
Thor
Hulk
Silver Surfer
Captain Marvel
Sentry
Juggernaught
Thanos
Kon-El
Bizarro
Erradicator
Henshaw
Martian Manhunter
Wonder Woman


JUST durability and strength... not taking into account factors like energy output (Surfer, Superman, thor, Erradicator, Henshaw, the Manhunter), amping (Surfer, Thanos, Manhunter- who can increase durability and strength by using his shapeshifting and tangibility powers) and so on. So this is JUST if they were blindsided by an attack, or were attempting to lift something without increasing their powers.

Captain Marvel
Juggernaut
Superman
Thor
Thanos
Surfer
Eradicator
Bizarro
Hulk (depending on which Hulk- he could be either a couple of levels higher, or many lower- I'm using "classic Savage" Hulk)
Sentry
Wonder Woman
J'onn
Kon-El
Henshaw

Most of Surfer's strength and durability abilities come from him amping himself up with the power cosmic- check out his fight with the Abomination, early in volume one, where he is absolutely DESTROYED by the Abomination when he is at his "base level" before he calls upon the PC. Wonder Woman's durability is fairly low- her speed and her gauntlets make up for that. Kon-El's strength comes mostly from his tactile telekinesis- he's nominally half Superman strength.

Bizarro and Eradicator should be close to the same level of strength as Superman but they are very rarely depicted that way.... and Henshaw, at his "base" level is extremely weak. Most of his impressive strength and durability comes from after he incorporated Kryptonian tech into his body. When he was first depicted, his powers were not at all impressive.

Originally posted by tjcoady
This is so inarguable incorrect it scarcely needs responding to...

The Crystal is Cytorrak's power. Classic Juggernaut is "base" power level- during his time with Excalibur (and, for instance), his first fight with World War Hulk, he was operating at extremely below normal power levels. Cytorrak was limiting the power he derived from the crystal during that period.

Actually Cain was the one limiting his powers. Cyttorak didn't do a thing to him but tease him a little.

Striking power (first to last):

Thanos
Thor
Superman
Surfer
Henshaw
Hulk
Juggernaut
Captain Marvel
Sentry
Bizarro
Wonder Woman
Martian Manhunter
Eradicator
Kon-El

Durability (first to last):

Juggernaut
Thanos
Henshaw
Surfer
Thor
Superman
Captain Marvel
Bizarro
Sentry
Hulk
Eradicator
Wonder Woman
Kon-El
Martian Manhunter

How is Thanos stronger than Superman?

Originally posted by Enyalus
Striking power (first to last):

Thanos
Superman
Juggernaut (at full strength)
Hulk (Enraged)
Captain Marvel
Thor
Surfer
Henshaw
Sentry
Wonder Woman
Bizarro
Martian Manhunter
Kon-El

Durability (first to last):

Juggernaut (at full strength)
Thanos
Henshaw
Surfer
Thor
Superman
Hulk (Enraged)
Captain Marvel
Bizarro
Sentry
Wonder Woman
Kon-El
Martian Manhunter

Fixed

Not sure about Eradicator.

Originally posted by tjcoady
JUST durability and strength... not taking into account factors like energy output (Surfer, Superman, thor, Erradicator, Henshaw, the Manhunter), amping (Surfer, Thanos, Manhunter- who can increase durability and strength by using his shapeshifting and tangibility powers) and so on. So this is JUST if they were blindsided by an attack, or were attempting to lift something without increasing their powers.

Captain Marvel
Juggernaut
Superman
Thor
Thanos
Surfer
Eradicator
Bizarro
Hulk (depending on which Hulk- he could be either a couple of levels higher, or many lower- I'm using "classic Savage" Hulk)
Sentry
Wonder Woman
J'onn
Kon-El
Henshaw

Most of Surfer's strength and durability abilities come from him amping himself up with the power cosmic- check out his fight with the Abomination, early in volume one, where he is absolutely DESTROYED by the Abomination when he is at his "base level" before he calls upon the PC. Wonder Woman's durability is fairly low- her speed and her gauntlets make up for that. Kon-El's strength comes mostly from his tactile telekinesis- he's nominally half Superman strength.

Bizarro and Eradicator should be close to the same level of strength as Superman but they are very rarely depicted that way.... and Henshaw, at his "base" level is extremely weak. Most of his impressive strength and durability comes from after he incorporated Kryptonian tech into his body. When he was first depicted, his powers were not at all impressive.

CPT Marvel, Thor and Juggs all stronger then Thanos... I don't agree.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
How is Thanos stronger than Superman?
He is! He can defeat characters in a few hits that are in Superman power range!

My list(using Enyalus and rearranging it)
Power
Thanos
Thor-With Mjonir
Superman
Henshaw
Surfer
Captain Marvel
Juggernaut
Bizarro
Sentry
Wonder Woman
Martian Manhunter
Thor-No Mjonir
Hulk-BASE
Eradicator
Kon-El


Durability

Juggernaut
Thanos
Henshaw
Thor
Surfer, Superman--Tie depending on what kind of hit
Captain Marvel
Bizarro
Sentry
Hulk
Eradicator
Wonder Woman
Martian Manhunter
Kon-El

Originally posted by xJLxKing
He is! He can defeat characters in a few hits that are in Superman power range!

My list(using Enyalus and rearranging it)
Power
Thanos
Thor-With Mjonir
Superman
Henshaw
Surfer
Captain Marvel
Juggernaut
Bizarro
Sentry
Wonder Woman
Martian Manhunter
Thor-No Mjonir
Hulk-BASE
Eradicator
Kon-El


Durability

Juggernaut
Thanos
Henshaw
Thor
Surfer, Superman--Tie depending on what kind of hit
Captain Marvel
Bizarro
Sentry
Hulk
Eradicator
Wonder Woman
Martian Manhunter
Kon-El

Being in Superman's power range does not mean you can beat Superman. You can be physically weaker than someone and still beat them. What strength feats does Thanos has that puts him above Superman?

Thor using Mjolnir is not a physical based attack.

I would presume not to allow Mjolnir for the sake of this thread.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Being in Superman's power range does not mean you can beat Superman. You can be physically weaker than someone and still beat them. What strength feats does Thanos has that puts him above Superman? Dude, I just said it. He beats characters like SS, Thor..etc without much punching need.

Thanos is stronger then Superman when it comes to physically power. I SERIOUSLY doubt Superman can knock SS, Thor..etc with a few punches. Maybe if they stand there and let him punch as strong, but not in a fight(speculation)

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Dude, I just said it. He beats characters like SS, Thor..etc without much punching need.

Thanos is stronger then Superman when it comes to physically power. I SERIOUSLY doubt Superman can knock SS, Thor..etc with a few punches. Maybe if they stand there and let him punch as strong, but not in a fight(speculation)

You do know that the reason why SS loses to Thanos is because he lacks the power output to really hurt him right? Maybe thats why he beats SS without much punching. He fought Thor like twice. Once again though beating SS and Thor does not mean you can beat Superman.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
You do know that the reason why SS loses to Thanos is because he lacks the power output to really hurt him right? Maybe thats why he beats SS without much punching. He fought Thor like twice. Once again though beating SS and Thor does not mean you can beat Superman.
No offense dude, your reasoning is pretty dumb. Superman doesn't have much to over that SS, or Thor have. SS doesn't get weaker if he can't put Thanos out. Thanos can physically beat SS in a few punches(Last I checked). Again, Superman won't be able to do the same(even if SS lets him hit him). He will probably knock SS out if he stand in one place, but if it's a fight, Superman isn't going to knock SS out in a few punches.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
No offense dude, your reasoning is pretty dumb. Superman doesn't have much to over that SS, or Thor have. SS doesn't get weaker if he can't put Thanos out. Thanos can physically beat SS in a few punches(Last I checked). Again, Superman won't be able to do the same(even if SS lets him hit him). He will probably knock SS out if he stand in one place, but if it's a fight, Superman isn't going to knock SS out in a few punches.

This is everyone at base strength so that means that Thanos can't amp himself and Superman can't hold back. We all know that Superman holds back. Can you tell me the limit on Superman's strength?

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
This is everyone at base strength so that means that Thanos can't amp himself and Superman can't hold back. We all know that Superman holds back. Can you tell me the limit on Superman's strength?
eek

Superman does hold back, but even if he doesn't that won't automatically put him on Thanos Strenght level. Last I checked, Thanos didn't amp himself when he beat Thor, or SS. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
This is everyone at base strength so that means that Thanos can't amp himself and Superman can't hold back. We all know that Superman holds back. Can you tell me the limit on Superman's strength?

So, tell me again why Thanos can't amp himself? Then by the same token Clark can't go all out and amp himself adrenline wise.... that is just stupid. If clark can pump himself up and go all out then Thanos can't amp himself and do the same.

Thing is that these two examples of who he beat could also get beat by Superman H2H.

I think Bizarro is being underestimated here, he's STRONGER than Clark

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
You do know that the reason why SS loses to Thanos is because he lacks the power output to really hurt him right? Maybe thats why he beats SS without much punching What does Surfers power output have to do with Thanos beating him in few punches? It's a durability issue not Power. It's not lack of fire power from surfer it's Thanos's durability that allows him to take blast's from Surfer. In terms of fire power it's hard to beat the Surfer.

Any particular reasons, why beating SS and Thor does not mean he can beat Superman?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
I think Bizarro is being underestimated here, he's STRONGER than Clark

Here is a guy who did not know that. I'm talking about me just in case.

I'm only listing those that I'm familiar with.

1.Thanos
2. Superman/Captain Marvel/Bizzaro
3. Thor
4. Juggernaut
5. Wonder Woman
6. Hulk
7. Sentry
8. Silver Surfer
9. Martian Manhunter

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
This is everyone at base strength so that means that Thanos can't amp himself and Superman can't hold back. We all know that Superman holds back. Can you tell me the limit on Superman's strength? Even without amping his punches, Thanos was knocking around Thor w/pg.

Thanos
Bizarro
Captain Marvel
Superman
Thor
Surfer
Henshaw
Hulk
Juggernaut
Wonder Woman
Martian Manhunter
Eradicator
Sentry
Kon-El

imo

Damn Sentry is not getting any kind of respect.

How strong is the sun, Sentry is a thousand times stronger than that.

He should be #1

Originally posted by SuperiorTech
Damn Sentry is not getting any kind of respect.

he has to earn it, I dont believe in hyperboles

Originally posted by Sin I AM
I think Bizarro is being underestimated here, he's STRONGER than Clark I read that in Bizarro speak.

Is that how I was supposed to read it?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
he has to earn it, I dont believe in hyperboles

Sentry suffers from inconsistent writing.
At one point he can contain a cosmic cube with his strength and at the other he struggles with the hellicarrier

Originally posted by Sin I AM
I think Bizarro is being underestimated here, he's STRONGER than Clark
No he's not. He just doesn't have the brains to hold back like Kal does.


Wei, he wanted most powerful physical attacks, as in punches and strikes and whatnot. Thanos virtually killed SS in eight punches and was fighting on equal footing against Champion w/ PG and Thor w/ PG. No one's arguing who beats who here. But for the record, easily beating SS and Classic Thor does translate into being able to beat Superman. He's High Herald, just like them. And more of a one-dimensional brick than they are.

Thanos 1
Billy 2

The rest are not close 3's, 4's, 5's, and so on.

I want to mix Enyalus and Sin I Am's lists. They seem to make sense to me, from what I've seen.

Thanos is clearly and EASILY number 1 without amping.

Then it goes:

Thor/Superman/Sentry/Captain Marvel
Bizarro
Henshaw
Surfer
Juggernaut
Martian Manhunter
Wonder Woman
Hulk (at low rage levels)
Eradicator
Kon-El

Originally posted by Mindset
How strong is the sun, Sentry is a thousand times stronger than that.

He should be #1

Sometimes a million!

Originally posted by tjcoady
Sometimes a million!
a thousand, a million, it doesn't matter. clearly the creators of Sentry had absolutely NO IDEA of what amounts of energy they were referring to and what that would mean for a relatively earthbound hero character - utter invincibility and the ability to destroy the whole solar system with just 0.1% or even 0.0001% of his power. If it were true, he'd be a serious cosmic force on par with some abstracts and would indeed have to be put on top of the list. Unfortunately for him none of his showings are even close to ... well, actually they are even extremely far from that level of power, however mighty he nonetheless may be.

Originally posted by Enyalus
No he's not. He just doesn't have the brains to hold back like Kal does.



I always thought that bizarro was stronger than Superman? Th eonly thing that holds him back is the lack of proper mental faculties to achieve said strength...

Originally posted by wannabe
a thousand, a million, it doesn't matter. clearly the creators of Sentry had absolutely NO IDEA of what amounts of energy they were referring to and what that would mean for a relatively earthbound hero character - utter invincibility and the ability to destroy the whole solar system with just 0.1% or even 0.0001% of his power. If it were true, he'd be a serious cosmic force on par with some abstracts and would indeed have to be put on top of the list. Unfortunately for him none of his showings are even close to ... well, actually they are even extremely far from that level of power, however mighty he nonetheless may be.

And do you get angry when you read a comic described as "senses-shattering" and you walk away with your ability to see intact?

It's a comic book. Hyperbole was practically invented for the superhero-form.

sentry is right where he belongs at the bottom of this list

Thanos is clearly on top

Originally posted by Sin I AM
sentry is right where he belongs at the bottom of this list

Not really. It depends on what showings you pick. Clearly marvel writers write him inconsistently but one that can contain a cosmic cube with his strength cannot be at the bottom. Then again he was shown to struggle against the hellicarier...
well...

Originally posted by Sin I AM
I always thought that bizarro was stronger than Superman? Th eonly thing that holds him back is the lack of proper mental faculties to achieve said strength...
I'm sure Avlon could clear it up.

What makes you think that, though? I don't remember it ever being stated. And during a Holy War tie-in (Starman?), I think it was said he was as strong as Superman....but again, Supes holds back. Bizarro doesn't.

Off the top of my head, when he and Bizzaro exchange bodies, Superman says something like 'he might even be stronger than me' which is the only instance that suggests Bizzaro might actually be stronger than Superman as far as I recall.

I wouldn't put that much thought into it though. ermm

I'm here to clear it up.

Bizarro is in no way, shape or form stronger than Superman.

"This is my word, and as such is beyond contestation."

Originally posted by nimbus006
I'm here to clear it up.

Bizarro is in no way, shape or form stronger than Superman.

"This is my word, and as such is beyond contestation."
That quote is from Knight's tale. One of my favorite movies.


Any ways, Bizarro is stronger then Superman, but can't use that strenght because he too dumb

Originally posted by xJLxKing
That quote is from Knight's tale. One of my favorite movies.


Any ways, Bizarro is stronger then Superman, but can't use that strenght because he too dumb

Yes it is, Prince Edward to be specific.

I don't understand that argument.

Hulk is one of the least intelligent characters out there, and he definitely knows how to use strength.

Using strength is one of the most basic and primitive instincts you have.

It doesn't require a great deal of intelligence.

How does being dumb limit your strength?

Retard strength, anyone?

Originally posted by Mindset
How does being dumb limit your strength?

Retard strength, anyone?

Lol, my words exactly, just not so eloquently.

What I meant to say is he has potential in his brain or something. But his idiocy, and stupidity holds him back.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
What I meant to say is he has potential in his brain or something. But his idiocy, and stupidity holds him back.

Did I not say my word was beyond contestation?

Originally posted by xJLxKing
What I meant to say is he has potential in his brain or something. But his idiocy, and stupidity holds him back. Similar to the way Supes has potential, but holds himself back?

Originally posted by Mindset
Similar to the way Supes has potential, but holds himself back?
YUP

that what i was thinking, i rsaw it on panel it might've been when Joker stole Mxy's powers that Bizarro was always stronger than clark, yet his warped thinkin held him back

Originally posted by Sin I AM
that what i was thinking, i rsaw it on panel it might've been when Joker stole Mxy's powers that Bizarro was always stronger than clark, yet his warped thinkin held him back
Well you're wrong and DC is lying. uhuh

I'd always assumed that Clark and Bizarro were equal, Bizarro just lacked the capacity to reach the same levels that Supes does...