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DMC 3's Vergil versus God of War's Kratos.

Rules: No Magic. Vergil gets Yamato/Beowulf. Kratos gets The Blades of Chaos. Vergil gets his Devil Trigger-Kratos gets Rage of The Gods.

hmmm. I would still have to say kratos, as the only way vergil can hurt him is close up, but by then since kratos has exremely good reflexes, and his blades have a good medium range, vergil would probably already be dead.

Well, Yamato does hurt you from afar, and don't forget Vergil's regeneration.

well, those slices from afar are pretty easy to dodge, kratos could just roll out of the way, and vergils regeneration only does so good until the person hes fighting could easily rip him in half and decapitate him in the matter of a split second being close to him.

Well, how can he dodge it, when it won't see it? He couldn't dodge when Charon swung his Scythe. It would be too hard to dodge. Besides, he can be 100 feet away, and Kratos will be gone(See: DMC4 Yamato scene).

1. He wouldn't grab him. Too slow.

2. With Beowulf, Vergil could do the same.

3. Vergil can teleport.

4. He only grabs weakened/groggy people.

Added Weapons: Kratos gets Artemis Blade, Vergil gets Beowulf.

Originally posted by Gumachi
Well, how can he dodge it, when it won't see it? He couldn't dodge when Charon swung his Scythe. It would be too hard to dodge. Besides, he can be 100 feet away, and Kratos will be gone(See: DMC4 Yamato scene).

1. He wouldn't grab him. Too slow.

2. With Beowulf, Vergil could do the same.

3. Vergil can teleport.

4. He only grabs weakened/groggy people.

Added Weapons: Kratos gets Artemis Blade, Vergil gets Beowulf.

Vergil isn't Dante so whatever he did with it shouldn't count for Vergil.

Said by Capcom. So he could do it too. Regardless, he still could cut him from afar.

Originally posted by Gumachi
Said by Capcom. So he could do it too. Regardless, he still could cut him from afar.

Identical doesn't mean that they are exactly the same. Twins are twins but they are still different people. They are individuals. Look at alternate versions of comic characters. Hell if they were so identical then they would forever be stalemating each other.

"Identical Powers. " Besides, all he did was swing Yamato, and cut the Hellgate from afar away.

sounds like another Dante vs Kratos Thread

Originally posted by Gumachi
Said by Capcom. So he could do it too. Regardless, he still could cut him from afar.

Identical when it comes to basic powers such as strength, speed etc, not energy usage or other specifics like Dante does with RG, or Vergil with Summoned Swords etc. Sure they could do what the other does, but they'd never be as proficient as the other is (i.e. Dante would never be as proficient with SS)

Also, Vergil is much much more proficient with swords, at least more so than DMC 3 Dante. Hands down more proficient with Yamato than any Dante seen so far. He could easily replicate and probably outdo Dante's feat in 4 (Directed at Wei ).

Vergil's also much more ruthless & less prone to playing around, seeing as how he wtfpwned Beowulf in a few seconds.

GoW 1 Kratos doesn't stand a chance, he's already lost his magics. RotG can only do so much, doesn't even give him invincibility.

Yamato (tomato lol) doesn't seem to fit Dante.

Yamato's best destructive feat at range is cutting a hellgate, which can be busted with Dante's pistols, if I remember right?

Kratos.

^No(I think).

Dante used devil arms to smash the lesser gates.

Sheer speed alone screws Kratos over. Being able to block bullets from the likes of Dante, or better yet, catch them on your sword and then throw them as a single row back at him? Kratos doesn't have shit on that.

Also, Kratos rarely has faced opponents with skills comparable to his own. And Vergil took down Dante in DMC3 the first time, drew dead even the 2nd, and almost beat him the 3rd. Something I honestly believe is beyond Kratos for the most part.

Kratos deflects lightning. Lightning>Bullets.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Dante used devil arms to smash the lesser gates.

Sheer speed alone screws Kratos over. Being able to block bullets from the likes of Dante, or better yet, catch them on your sword and then throw them as a single row back at him? Kratos doesn't have shit on that.

Also, Kratos rarely has faced opponents with skills comparable to his own. And Vergil took down Dante in DMC3 the first time, drew dead even the 2nd, and almost beat him the 3rd. Something I honestly believe is beyond Kratos for the most part.

Beyond Kratos from God of War 1 mostly. Sure as hell as beyond him if he loses part of his arsenal.

Ares, Zeus & Persephone were comparable in power, higher in terms of overall power imo. He's also most likely going to go through a whole slew of gods in 3.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Dante used devil arms to smash the lesser gates.

Sheer speed alone screws Kratos over. Being able to block bullets from the likes of Dante, or better yet, catch them on your sword and then throw them as a single row back at him? Kratos doesn't have shit on that.

Also, Kratos rarely has faced opponents with skills comparable to his own. And Vergil took down Dante in DMC3 the first time, drew dead even the 2nd, and almost beat him the 3rd. Something I honestly believe is beyond Kratos for the most part.
It doesnt matter how fast he is, i couldnt care less about that. The fact is that kratos reaction>>>> vergils speed, so the only way he can win this fight is to actually get close up... and by that time hes already dead.

Kratos' reaction is shitty. He couldn't even react to a pathetic sickle, hell, not even a pillar. Vergil's speed could be his reaction(if you know what I mean). Either way, Vergil is too fast for Kratos. He would just teleport behind him, and chop his head off, or just knock him in the air with Beowulf, and cut him in half. And why does he have to get up close? Kratos won't be hitting him close, nor far away. And Kratos hasn't fought anyone the speed of Vergil, and don't say Zeus. Really. All Vergil has to do is run at Kratos and cut him in half.

Originally posted by Gumachi
Kratos' reaction is shitty. He couldn't even react to a pathetic sickle, hell, not even a pillar. Vergil's speed could be his reaction(if you know what I mean). Either way, Vergil is too fast for Kratos. He would just teleport behind him, and chop his head off, or just knock him in the air with Beowulf, and cut him in half. And why does he have to get up close? Kratos won't be hitting him close, nor far away. And Kratos hasn't fought anyone the speed of Vergil, and don't say Zeus. Really. All Vergil has to do is run at Kratos and cut him in half.

I don't recall Charon's scythe ever KO'ing him, just that massive wave which by plot device was unavoidable, and aside from the fact that the pillar was thrown at least across Greece at the speed it was flying, Kratos was still busy with Pandora's Box. Not to mention if Zeus isn't to be said as an example (though it is as much a case since every God Kratos has fought has shown TK or Teleportation on at least one occasion, if not in their fights with Kratos, then prior to it), then Charon, in both cutscenes he appeared in, showed virtually instantaneous movement/teleportation, and survived being bisected by his own scythe until he was beaten to death by the Gauntlet of Zeus. The only things Kratos never reacted to were the things that caught him off guard and/or weakened.

With or without Beowulf, Kratos by feats is still stronger. Hell, what little we've seen of the Cestus at least begins to already make it look comparable to what Beowulf ever did. Not to ramble off-topic, 'scuse me.

Also, despite how I'm posting this, I'm not necessarily saying Kratos wins, if only because of the restrictions in the topic (all-out, then he's in another league). But I will say that Kratos' biggest challenge comes from the fact that unlike Dante, Vergil is actually serious.

id say kratos at his strongest. vergil is far cooler but kratos is probably stronger in most departments other than maybe speed.

Originally posted by k1Lla441
It doesnt matter how fast he is, i couldnt care less about that. The fact is that kratos reaction>>>> vergils speed, so the only way he can win this fight is to actually get close up... and by that time hes already dead.

Reflexes and movement speed are completely different, you can't compare them both.

Reflex-wise, I'd say they're about equal.
Vergil is much faster than Kratos, given his teleportation and all. This fight is spite really, the thread maker has nerfed Kratos firstly, and normal God of War 1 Kratos doesn't even have the powers of Pandora's box.

Originally posted by Gumachi
Kratos' reaction is shitty. He couldn't even react to a pathetic sickle, hell, not even a pillar. Vergil's speed could be his reaction(if you know what I mean). Either way, Vergil is too fast for Kratos. He would just teleport behind him, and chop his head off, or just knock him in the air with Beowulf, and cut him in half. And why does he have to get up close? Kratos won't be hitting him close, nor far away. And Kratos hasn't fought anyone the speed of Vergil, and don't say Zeus. Really. All Vergil has to do is run at Kratos and cut him in half.
Yes, will say zues, because he does have good reactions.

@F.T: who would be the one in the other league, sir? your talking about kratos, right?

Originally posted by First_Tsurugi06
I don't recall Charon's scythe ever KO'ing him, just that massive wave which by plot device was unavoidable, and aside from the fact that the pillar was thrown at least across Greece at the speed it was flying, Kratos was still busy with Pandora's Box. Not to mention if Zeus isn't to be said as an example (though it is as much a case since every God Kratos has fought has shown TK or Teleportation on at least one occasion, if not in their fights with Kratos, then prior to it), then Charon, in both cutscenes he appeared in, showed virtually instantaneous movement/teleportation, and survived being bisected by his own scythe until he was beaten to death by the Gauntlet of Zeus. The only things Kratos never reacted to were the things that caught him off guard and/or weakened.

With or without Beowulf, Kratos by feats is still stronger. Hell, what little we've seen of the Cestus at least begins to already make it look comparable to what Beowulf ever did. Not to ramble off-topic, 'scuse me.

Also, despite how I'm posting this, I'm not necessarily saying Kratos wins, if only because of the restrictions in the topic (all-out, then he's in another league). But I will say that Kratos' biggest challenge comes from the fact that unlike Dante, Vergil is actually serious.

Play CoO, that's how Charon dumped his ass in Tartarus. He stopped pushing it: NIM7ndyA7bM Zeus hasn't shown TK, nor has Persephone. When Charon knocked out Kratos, he was right there(and he wasn't caught off guard). He could have been caught off guard, when Zeus throw his bolts at him. I'll try to find with Charon.

Probably, right. But with hand-to-hand skill, with or without Beowulf, Vergil probably wins(well, Vergil would be the same as Dante).

Originally posted by k1Lla441
Yes, will say zues, because he does have good reactions.

I said he hasn't fought anyone the speed of Vergil. I never said anything about Zeus' reactions. We hasn't seen anything of him(from what I remember).

And what does Kratos being caught off-guard have to do with anything? Being caught off-guard, shows a good example on how fast you can react.

1O_rIvOsK8Y&feature=related You might be able to see it, might be the vid. IDK.

Originally posted by Gumachi
Play CoO, that's how Charon dumped his ass in Tartarus. He stopped pushing it: NIM7ndyA7bM Zeus hasn't shown TK, nor has Persephone. When Charon knocked out Kratos, he was right there(and he wasn't caught off guard). He could have been caught off guard, when Zeus throw his bolts at him. I'll try to find with Charon.

Probably, right. But with hand-to-hand skill, with or without Beowulf, Vergil probably wins(well, Vergil would be the same as Dante).



I said he hasn't fought anyone the speed of Vergil. I never said anything about Zeus' reactions. We hasn't seen anything of him(from what I remember).

Not for nothing, but you tell me to play CoO (which I have mind you--not for the past few months though), yet you forget Persephone's showing at least once of TK, when Kratos came charging at her and was knocked yards back by a single hand gesture (Ares' needless to say was of a far larger scale, yet still spoke for their capabilities), and as for teleporting she happens to do so the moment Kratos pulls his daughter off of him. Charon using the scythe to KO Kratos their first bout only occurs if the player happens to suck; what's UNAVOIDABLE in their first fight regardless of skill is Charon's energy attack.

And conceptually speaking, if anything is to be said for H2H, it's the Gauntlet of Zeus just proves Kratos can fight with one arm at least as well as the Sparda Bros. ever fought with both, and their legs.

And being caught off-guard is practically irrelevant to reaction speed, more of a testament to awareness. Dante at his peak was caught off-guard by Pansy Blue Yonder's dropkick, but I'm not calling him out on it for his reactions, because if he was AWARE of it, then he'd've probably reacted to it differently than just taking it. Yes, I know he was subsequently testing b*tchfist's abilities, but I'll leave you to decide my operative word there. For a hint, it ain't "b*tchfist".

I don't remember her doing this(not saying your lying or anything). Yeah, I know she teleports. Well, I think it happened in a cutscene. The part where he dumped him in Hades/Tartarus, was a gameplay cutscene.

All I see him do is punch, nonething more. How come he couldn't do any of this before he got the Gaunlet? Dante can fight with one arm, also.(and he did it in DMC3, well, you could say he was using one arm, which in a way, he was) Can he do better than what Dante did at the beginning of DMC3? Maybe he can fight only when he has the Gaunlet?

I guess you have a point. But I don't remember him being caught off-guard. Either way, Kratos didn't react fast enough.

Originally posted by Gumachi
I don't remember her doing this(not saying your lying or anything). Yeah, I know she teleports. Well, I think it happened in a cutscene. The part where he dumped him in Hades/Tartarus, was a gameplay cutscene.

All I see him do is punch, nonething more. How come he couldn't do any of this before he got the Gaunlet? Dante can fight with one arm, also.(and he did it in DMC3, well, you could say he was using one arm, which in a way, he was) Can he do better than what Dante did at the beginning of DMC3? Maybe he can fight only when he has the Gaunlet?

I guess you have a point. But I don't remember him being caught off-guard. Either way, Kratos didn't react fast enough.

Please, that's Chains of Olympus, around ~9-10 years ago . This is God of War Kratos . His reactions will be much better now 313

Yeah, and he will finally fvck the shit outta Athena, right?

Originally posted by Gumachi
Yeah, and he will finally fvck the shit outta Athena, right? umm... yeah why not **** his half sister?

Gaia fvcked her son(Uranus), and Zeus fvcked his sister(Hera). Incest is well-known in Greek Myths.

Originally posted by Gumachi
I don't remember her doing this(not saying your lying or anything). Yeah, I know she teleports. Well, I think it happened in a cutscene. The part where he dumped him in Hades/Tartarus, was a gameplay cutscene.

All I see him do is punch, nonething more. How come he couldn't do any of this before he got the Gaunlet? Dante can fight with one arm, also.(and he did it in DMC3, well, you could say he was using one arm, which in a way, he was) Can he do better than what Dante did at the beginning of DMC3? Maybe he can fight only when he has the Gaunlet?

I guess you have a point. But I don't remember him being caught off-guard. Either way, Kratos didn't react fast enough.

I managed to rewatch the scenes. For clarity, Charon dropping Kratos into Tartarus is the ONLY thing that goes on in that scene. No where out of gameplay was he KO'd but again, the only inevitable sequence of the fight prior to it was Charon's one-hit KO attack. Persephone TKs Kratos in the part where he says "I won't let the Gods take her from me again.", the moment he says that, he's knocked away several yards.

Exactly my point, being able to fight with just one LIMB as opposed to using full-on motion capture for in and out of ganeplay. I can just as easily ask why DMC bothers to involve the likes of Beowulf, Gilgamesh or the Devil Bringer in gameplay as fisticuffs. It's the same general consensus as with the Gauntlet of Zeus: uniqueness for the sake of gameplay, but plotwise being a boost or addition to their basic strength. Kratos has shown to be able to manhandle enemies two to three times his size with at least his bare hands, simply in methods that don't even require punching (i.e. splattering enemies to pieces by slamming them to the ground).

And it was when Dante was looming right over Kyrie and (IIRC) Credo that Nero drop-kicked him out of the way before the actual boss fight, and I doubt Nero was coming in at the same speed as the pillar that Ares tossed either. Again, neither had to do with good reactions because both Dante and Kratos were pre-occupied in their respective situations.

When we saw that "flash" it was a cutscene. So it was like a TK push?

Anyone can punch, lol. Because, it gives them more power(?), and it defiantly gives them brute-force. True. Isn't that gameplay, though? Hell, even Nero can pick up Berial and toss him around. If I remember correctly, Dante did fight with full-force.

I thought you meant when Jester drop-kicked him.

Originally posted by First_Tsurugi06
I managed to rewatch the scenes. For clarity, Charon dropping Kratos into Tartarus is the ONLY thing that goes on in that scene. No where out of gameplay was he KO'd but again, the only inevitable sequence of the fight prior to it was Charon's one-hit KO attack. Persephone TKs Kratos in the part where he says "I won't let the Gods take her from me again.", the moment he says that, he's knocked away several yards.

Exactly my point, being able to fight with just one LIMB as opposed to using full-on motion capture for in and out of ganeplay. I can just as easily ask why DMC bothers to involve the likes of Beowulf, Gilgamesh or the Devil Bringer in gameplay as fisticuffs. It's the same general consensus as with the Gauntlet of Zeus: uniqueness for the sake of gameplay, but plotwise being a boost or addition to their basic strength. Kratos has shown to be able to manhandle enemies two to three times his size with at least his bare hands, simply in methods that don't even require punching (i.e. splattering enemies to pieces by slamming them to the ground).

And it was when Dante was looming right over Kyrie and (IIRC) Credo that Nero drop-kicked him out of the way before the actual boss fight, and I doubt Nero was coming in at the same speed as the pillar that Ares tossed either. Again, neither had to do with good reactions because both Dante and Kratos were pre-occupied in their respective situations.

Dude, this is CoO Kratos you are talking about. The one in this fight is GoW Kratos, since there is a 10 year gap between the two, his abilities must be slightly better. Stop debating about CoO's feats.

& Vergil stomps a nerfed Kratos, Kratos would do better if he did have magic & Athena's blessing.

Athena's Blessing? You mean The Blades of Athena?

No, the ability he gets when his blades are fully maxed, and he activates RoTG. He gets infinite magic as long as RoTG lasts.

Oh, yeah. Honestly, it doesn't last for long. Well, Devil Trigger FTW.

Meh, that's from a gameplay standpoint, similar to how DT doesn't last long in-game. Besides, Vergil would be hard pressed to counter against powerful intangible souls, and lightning bursts...the only way he'd avoid is either by running, or using DT to try and negate the stun effects. Kratos is untouchable during PR (seeing as how even cyclops can't hurt him during PR), so Vergil wouldn't do much. That's my two cents.

But, when it comes down to this particular fight, Vergil stomps.

DT lasts longer than ROTG. Canoncially/Technially, DT lasts however long Vergil wants it to. Actually, he takes little damage. If Vergil is in his DT, what makes you think he can't hurt Kratos? Hades' Souls isn't allowed. Vergil would just regenerate it all. Yamato would **** up Kratos(Since it's the incarnation of his spirit).

The fact that PR makes him invincible

I already acknowledged that magic isn't allowed in this fight.

Seeing as how from a gameplay point DT isn't infinite whereas Boss Vergil can turn it on and off at will, similarly, you can't just say RoTG is finite. True, he does take little damage, but he still takes it. If Kratos is spamming PR, he'll still be taking damage. I'll stop with the magic debate. I never said he'd win the majority, I said he'd do better. 4/10 at most. 5/10 if he's really really lucky.

Reincarnation of his spirit?


And my bad, CoO is set 5 years before GoW.

Or hard to hit. Wasn't Ares able to hit him?

That really doesn't mean it doesn't last as long as he wants it too. Well, who said he had to be close? No one said Vergil had to be in range. I don't think lighting can effect Vergil(it atleast doesn't effect Dante).

Yes.

Not while doing PR iirc. (I also edited my post, not much of a diff, though still, look over it.)

It could, given that it's tied to his blades.

DMC3 Dante was affected pretty badly by Nevan's electric bursts , even if it was from a gameplay perspective. Plus, PR probably is more intense than Nevan's bursts.

Who, Kratos? He's not a reincarnation, not in the classical sense. What context are you using it in? And since when does Yamato affect reincarnations more than it does a normal human?

Tied to who's blades? What are you talking about?

I don't remember him being hurt badly. I was talking about the Alastor scene. Well, she is the Lighting Goddess/Witch.

No, Vergil.

Off-topic: But does Dante have more than 1 soul? I mean, he DOES get the souls of Demons(and they "enter" his body).

RoTG tied to the Blades of Chaos. It could be infinite, or last as long as he wants it to.

That's DMC 1 Dante, a vastly more superior and older Dante than the one seen in 3, who is Vergil's equal in basic stats.

Reincarnation of whom?

Maybe? Maybe he can with ROTT. He just "got" ROTG lol.

Incarnation of Vergil's power/spirit(and body?). Bascially like when Dante got stabbed in DMC3, and his Demonic Powers awakened.

Since the blades are his, and RoTG 'comes' from the blades, RoTG has a higher chance of lasting as long as Kratos wants, as opposed to RotT, plot-wise at least, since RotT was given to him.

Yamato isn't similar to Rebellion in that way, I don't think so. canonically, Rebellion is only wielded by Dante, Yamato has been wielded by so many people. Rebellion was probably a conduit of sorts to focus his energy.

No, I don't think he has more than one soul. It is probably his manifestation of that soul...like a molding of sorts, or the molding of that soul to fit his needs.

Maybe? I only say DT last as long as he wants because I wan't talking about gameplay.

I'm not saying that. But, okay.

Meh, his boss version is the only version that possesses "infinite DT"

What were you saying then?

Well, he did stay "infinite" in DMC1.

Nevermind.

Heh, that's Nelo Angelo (I'm assuming you're referring to him)...he never had that power in the first place, it was given to him by Mundus.

Alright.

Well, he also never stayed in his human-form.

Yes, but you said DMC 3's Vergil