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Who takes it?

Pure brawl? As in no weapons? If so, Orion.

Really, I'd take Orion even if BRB had Stormbreaker.

Originally posted by Harbinger
Pure brawl? As in no weapons? If so, Orion.

Really, I'd take Orion even if BRB had Stormbreaker.

Bill keeps his hammer.

So, what does Orion get?

Originally posted by cloud102
So, what does Orion get?

Orion gets a jump suit, and a mouth piece.

Orion, then.

Beta Ray Bill wins. With Stormbreaker, it's unfair.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Beta Ray Bill wins. With Stormbreaker, it's unfair.

Any reasons?

Originally posted by cloud102
Any reasons?

He's Uber!

Originally posted by cloud102
Any reasons?

Beta Ray Bill without his hammer is a power house as it is. With it, he wins.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Beta Ray Bill without his hammer is a power house as it is. With it, he wins.


How is he a more powerhouse than Orion?

Originally posted by cloud102
How is he a more powerhouse than Orion?

Without his hammer, Beta Ray Bill was able to hang with Thor.

Orion taking down the original Beta Ray Bill, would be a very good fight. Orion will have to work for it, and he will be hard pressed to win.

With Stormbreaker, Beta Ray Bill, better known as Beta Ray Thor is even more powerful from what I understand and give him the striking power of Stormbreaker, and Orion goes down.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Without his hammer, Beta Ray Bill was able to hang with Thor.

Orion taking down the original Beta Ray Bill, would be a very good fight. Orion will have to work for it, and he will be hard pressed to win.

With Stormbreaker, Beta Ray Bill, better known as Beta Ray Thor is even more powerful from what I understand and give him the striking power of Stormbreaker, and Orion goes down.

Without Orion's gear, he was able to stand up to Superman (Amped), Darkseid, and knocked down Kalibak with one move in the later appearances.

Darkseid jobs a lot so it doesn't matter.

Superman amped?

To what degree?

The original Beta Ray Bill could hang with Thor to an extent, meaning he can obviously hang with the likes of Superman, Orion etc.

Throw in the fact that Beta Ray Thor has Stormbreaker and is more powerful, and he wins this fight evidently.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Darkseid jobs a lot so it doesn't matter.

Superman amped?

To what degree?

The original Beta Ray Bill could hang with Thor to an extent, meaning he can obviously hang with the likes of Superman, Orion etc.

Throw in the fact that Beta Ray Thor has Stormbreaker and is more powerful, and he wins this fight evidently.

In the Dominus arc, I believe Superman was amped to a degree. The only one who could have gone toe to toe with him was Orion, so they sent him. Barda played a distraction as well, but that wasn't the only time Orion has faced Superman.

Orion fared pretty well, when Superman was brainwashed. Orion even smacked Superman around and feared to use his Astro Force. With it, he took down Superman in Superman Confidential.

Orion is clearly a better fighter than Bill and has even demonstrated it against Valkyrie, Darkseid (who had respect at the time), and has even fought in the fire pits, which is a lot hotter than the sun itself. Orion has incredible durability.

Sheephead ftw

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Without his hammer, Beta Ray Bill was able to hang with Thor.

Orion taking down the original Beta Ray Bill, would be a very good fight. Orion will have to work for it, and he will be hard pressed to win.

With Stormbreaker, Beta Ray Bill, better known as Beta Ray Thor is even more powerful from what I understand and give him the striking power of Stormbreaker, and Orion goes down.

What are you, drunk?

BRB can hang with Thor sans his hammer. With their hammers they're roughly equals, only Thor's feats trump his.

BTW, for what it's worth, Simonson has gone on record as saying Orion can take apart Thor. I know various other writers as saying Orion > Superman in strength as well.

Originally posted by cloud102
In the Dominus arc, I believe Superman was amped to a degree. The only one who could have gone toe to toe with him was Orion, so they sent him. Barda played a distraction as well, but that wasn't the only time Orion has faced Superman.

Orion fared pretty well, when Superman was brainwashed. Orion even smacked Superman around and feared to use his Astro Force. With it, he took down Superman in Superman Confidential.

Orion is clearly a better fighter than Bill and has even demonstrated it against Valkyrie, Darkseid (who had respect at the time), and has even fought in the fire pits, which is a lot hotter than the sun itself. Orion has incredible durability.

What does this all prove?

Superman recently stalemated Orion even with his gear.

Those two are near equals.

Beta Ray Thor can hang with the likes of Thor, and other power houses. He was born in scorching heat. It's where he thrives.

Either way, Beta Ray Thor with Stormbreaker, would defeat Superman in a hand to hand fight. Orion is no different.

Originally posted by cloud102
BTW, for what it's worth, Simonson has gone on record as saying Orion can take apart Thor. I know various other writers as saying Orion > Superman in strength as well.

According to Walter, lava etc. is fatal to Thor, so really I don't care what he thinks of Thor.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
What are you, drunk?

BRB can hang with Thor sans his hammer. With their hammers they're roughly equals, only Thor's feats trump his.

Are you drunk?

I said Beta Ray Thor can hang with Thor....

Classic Thor > Beta Ray Thor

In my opinion.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What does this all prove?

Superman recently stalemated Orion even with his gear.

Those two are near equals.

Beta Ray Thor can hang with the likes of Thor, and other power houses. He was born in scorching heat. It's where he thrives.

Either way, Beta Ray Thor with Stormbreaker, would defeat Superman in a hand to hand fight. Orion is no different.

I agree, usually when someone has a WEAPON, they win. If he gets Stormbreaker, then Bill wins, but if it's Hth combat, Orion dominates. If he gets Stormbreaker and Orion gets full gear, Orion wins, IMO.

Bill doesn't have anything on Orion.

Good fight... no idea who would win.. i wanna give it to Orion but really don't know.

Originally posted by cloud102
I agree, usually when someone has a WEAPON, they win. If he gets Stormbreaker, then Bill wins, but if it's Hth combat, Orion dominates. If he gets Stormbreaker and Orion gets full gear, Orion wins, IMO.

Bill doesn't have anything on Orion.

With Stormbreaker Beta Ray Thor obviously wins.

Without it, even the original Beta Ray Bill would give Orion a good fight. Orion would be far from dominating.

Beta Ray Thor is even more powerful. Even without his hammer, he can still win in a fight with Orion.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
With Stormbreaker Beta Ray Thor obviously wins.

Without it, even the original Beta Ray Bill would give Orion a good fight. Orion would be far from dominating.

Beta Ray Thor is even more powerful. Even without his hammer, he can still win in a fight with Orion.

He can win a couple, but Orion takes the solid majority.

Originally posted by cloud102
He can win a couple, but Orion takes the solid majority.

You said he would dominate which is far from the truth.

Orion was stalemated by Superman with his gear. He isn't beating Beta Ray Thor with Stormbreaker in a fist fight, and if it was a pure hand to hand fight he far from dominates.

He would far from dominate the original Beta Ray Bill. I personally give the majority to Beta Ray Thor but that's debatable.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
You said he would dominate which is far from the truth.

Orion was stalemated by Superman with his gear. He isn't beating Beta Ray Thor with Stormbreaker in a fist fight, and if it was a pure hand to hand fight he far from dominates.

He would far from dominate the original Beta Ray Bill. I personally give the majority to Beta Ray Thor but that's debatable.

He would, IMO. a 6 or 7 wins is dominating, IMO. Orion slugged it out with Superman and that's the strongest you're going to get. Not to mention, Orion is a better hth fighter. He IS the Dog of War.

My point is, even fully geared he couldn't beat Superman in hand to hand combat.

He isn't beating Beta Ray Thor with Stormbreaker. Beta Ray Bill obviously wins this fight.

Without Stormbreaker this is still a close fight, and Beta Ray Thor does not get dominated. Far from it. I can see him taking the majority.

Beta Ray Bill the original, has sluged it out with Thor, and that's more impressive than stalemating Superman fully geared.

How do you know? Most of the time the fights were broken up. Not inclusive.



I already agreed this, but if he gets Stormbreaker, Orion should get a weapon, too.




Orion will work for it, but Orion takes the majority. Beta isn't anything new.





Thor isn't in Orion's league in terms of physical combat. Remember, Orion has slugged it out more than just Superman and has more experience than Beta.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Beta Ray Bill without his hammer is a power house as it is. With it, he wins.


BB physically is not on par with orion. its like compareing thor to superman. he can hold his own for a short time but it wont last long. Thus the reason he needs his wepon. Thor and BB, part of their abilities are divided amongst their magic, their physical abilities and their wepons. wher as orion is just a brick shit house period.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Without his hammer, Beta Ray Bill was able to hang with Thor.

Orion taking down the original Beta Ray Bill, would be a very good fight. Orion will have to work for it, and he will be hard pressed to win.

With Stormbreaker, Beta Ray Bill, better known as Beta Ray Thor is even more powerful from what I understand and give him the striking power of Stormbreaker, and Orion goes down.


Thor in hand to hand combat has problems with herc, and herc would get wasted by orion even in hand to hand combat. Herc is more skilled as a grappler but orion is on par with superman in brute strength. compareing BB to thor as far as strength goes to show hes not up to par with orion in a H2H battle.

Originally posted by cloud102
How do you know? Most of the time the fights were broken up. Not inclusive.

They seemed plenty even.

Originally posted by cloud102
I already agreed this, but if he gets Stormbreaker, Orion should get a weapon, too.

Well, he doesn't. Talk to the thread starter.

Originally posted by cloud102
Orion will work for it, but Orion takes the majority. Beta isn't anything new.

That's you're opinion. Orion isn't anything Beta Ray Thor can't handle in my opinion.

Originally posted by cloud102
Thor isn't in Orion's league in terms of physical combat. Remember, Orion has slugged it out more than just Superman and has more experience than Beta.

Thor isn't in Orion's league in terms of physical combat?



Are you joking me?

Thor is easily on the level of Superman, Orion etc. in terms of physical combat.

Throw in the fact, that Thor remembers every single past life time, and he has countless years of combat experience (Hundreds of thousands of years of experience throw on his own vast experience) and to say they aren't in the same league when the likes of Superman has stalemated Orion fully geared, and that's just silly.

Originally posted by zeel
BB physically is not on par with orion. its like compareing thor to superman. he can hold his own for a short time but it wont last long. Thus the reason he needs his wepon. Thor and BB, part of their abilities are divided amongst their magic, their physical abilities and their wepons. wher as orion is just a brick shit house period.

Thor can last with Superman for as long as he needs to.

He won't last for a short period of time. That's just ridiculous.

This is the same guy, who has literally stalemated Savage Hulk for entire hours on end in terms of strength. An enraged Savage Hulk, whose strength shoots up dramatically with each passing moment.

This is the same Thor, who has out wrestled the Midgard Serpent from Earth, lifted the Midgard Serpent, one shotted beings like Namor etc.

Thor would only last against Superman for a short period of time in a fist fight?

LOL!

He might not have as many pure physical strength feats as Superman but what he does have, show that he will evidently hold his own against Superman for as long time.

Beta Ray Thor can match Orion physically. That much is evident. He is a near equal to Thor.

Originally posted by zeel
Thor in hand to hand combat has problems with herc, and herc would get wasted by orion even in hand to hand combat. Herc is more skilled as a grappler but orion is on par with superman in brute strength. compareing BB to thor as far as strength goes to show hes not up to par with orion in a H2H battle.

Don't use Hercules as an example.

Thor outside of their little squabbles has feats beyond Hercules in practically all categories. Either Thor jobs to Hercules, or Hercules jobs to everyone else. The guy needs a bit more respect from Marvel.

Based on some of his higher end feats, Orion far from wastes Hercules. That's just silly.

Orion is on par with Superman with brute strength?

So?

That doesn't prove his taking out Beta Ray Thor in a fight. Some would say Beta Ray Thor is on par with Thor. I wouldn't though.

Beta Ray Thor can obviously hang with Orion in hand to hand, and who wins is debatable. Throw in Stormbreaker, and Beta Ray Thor is obviously the clear winner.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Thor can last with Superman for as long as he needs to.

He won't last for a short period of time. That's just ridiculous.

This is the same guy, who has literally stalemated Savage Hulk for entire hours on end in terms of strength. An enraged Savage Hulk, whose strength shoots up dramatically with each passing moment.

This is the same Thor, who has out wrestled the Midgard Serpent from Earth, lifted the Midgard Serpent, one shotted beings like Namor etc.

Thor would only last against Superman for a short period of time in a fist fight?

LOL!

He might not have as many pure physical strength feats as Superman but what he does have, show that he will evidently hold his own against Superman for as long time.

Beta Ray Thor can match Orion physically. That much is evident. He is a near equal to Thor.



Yes thor would last as long as he wanted to against supes, PROVIDED he had his hammer and he fought smart. Its nothing short of rediculous to think thor is physically on par with superman. If this is your opinion, then your alone on it.

Originally posted by zeel
Yes thor would last as long as he wanted to against supes, PROVIDED he had his hammer and he fought smart. Its nothing short of rediculous to think thor is physically on par with superman. If this is your opinion, then your alone on it.



Without Mjolnir Thor can obviously hang with Superman in a hand to hand fight. Thor isn't going down in a short period time against Superman in hand to hand fight.

Thor will last in hand to hand fight for a period of time and who wins is debatable. Thor isn't going down against Superman any time soon.

Physically Thor can match either Superman or Orion. Throw in Mjolnir and Thor beats either in a hand to hand fight.

I highly doubt, only I alone think, Superman doesn't take down Thor in a short period of time and that the two would go out it for a while. Who wins is debatable.

Thor's hand to hand skill, and experience gives him the edge if it's pure strength alone and he plays it smart.

Sure, but you said Orion couldn't defeat Superman. They never finished their fights, so you can't make that statement. Besides, earlier showings have Orion in a sleight edge.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Are you drunk?

I said Beta Ray Thor can hang with Thor....

Classic Thor > Beta Ray Thor

In my opinion.

okay, you win this one....

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
okay, you win this one....

Damn straight!

uhuh

Lol!

Originally posted by cloud102
Sure, but you said Orion couldn't defeat Superman. They never finished their fights, so you can't make that statement. Besides, earlier showings have Orion in a sleight edge.

They were fighting for a few pages and they seemed pretty even.

I didn't judge the outcome of the fight. I said he couldn't defeat him in that time, which is true.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
They were fighting for a few pages and they seemed pretty even.

I didn't judge the outcome of the fight. I said he couldn't defeat him in that time, which is true.

First time, Orion looked the superior, even backhanding him with no problem. Superman Confidential, Orion actually knocked him out with a simple blast. Dominus arc had Orion going toe to toe with a amped Superman and taking the punches that were coming, even though Superman had more hits.

Originally posted by cloud102
First time, Orion looked the superior, even backhanding him with no problem. Superman Confidential, Orion actually knocked him out with a simple blast. Dominus arc had Orion going toe to toe with a amped Superman and taking the punches that were coming, even though Superman had more hits.

Seeing as how I've read all this, it doesn't really matter. All I said, that a fully geared Orion and Superman were seen as equals not to long ago and they stalemated.

Maybe I should have added in "Current".

In the first fight they seemed pretty well matched. I don't recall them stating to what degree Superman wasn't amped though.

First fight didn't have Superman amped.

I know that. I was referring to the fight where it seemed as if Superman wasn't amped.

But he was and they were locked in a good battle.

To what extent though?

Superman can fight an amped Orion.

To the extent that nobody could take him on one on one, so they sent in Orion specifically. Haven't read it in a while. I'll try and fins some scans. It was short, but Orion looked a lot better than Thor.

What do you mean Thor?

What does Thor have anything to do with the battle we are talking about?

What do you mean he looked better than Thor?

I've read the fight. It's been a while, but what did Superman to do what he couldn't regularly do when he was amped back then?

If you have scans, please post them, or I'll have to find the issue and post some scans, and I'm really lazy at the moment.

I'll see if Astro has the scans. He said that he's updating the Orion respect thread. Thor=Beta, IMO.

Classic Thor > Beta Ray Thor > Beta Ray Bill

That's what the comics say.

Orion.

Split, 5/10.

BRB's planet destroying blows would definitely do damage, but Orion has much better MA and hand speed.

Plus, BRB's durability << Classic Thor's.

Originally posted by Enyalus
much better MA and hand speed. GG get off Enyalus's account!

Originally posted by kgkg
GG get off Enyalus's account!
u caught me. i cant help it he left his account logged in when he was over last night doing my mom and making me watch.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Split, 5/10.

BRB's planet destroying blows would definitely do damage, but Orion has much better MA and hand speed.

Plus, BRB's durability << Classic Thor's.

I practically shitted my pants reading that.

Originally posted by cloud102
I practically shitted my pants reading that.
I'd throw up the middle finger emoticon TP's always using, if I was thinking straight enough to remember the code for it.

whatfingerdoestpusetofingerhimself

Originally posted by Mindset
whatfingerdoestpusetofingerhimself
What is 'a full fist' for 600, Alex.

Originally posted by Enyalus
u caught me. i cant help it he left his account logged in when he was over last night doing my mom and making me watch. Enyalus likes it saggy and mature heh

Originally posted by kgkg
Enyalus likes it
Fixed.

No need for qualification when it comes to sex and I.

bestial necrophilia?

Originally posted by Mindset
bestial necrophilia?
Hell to the yes.

you and me both brudda

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Don't use Hercules as an example.

Thor outside of their little squabbles has feats beyond Hercules in practically all categories. Either Thor jobs to Hercules, or Hercules jobs to everyone else. The guy needs a bit more respect from Marvel.

Based on some of his higher end feats, Orion far from wastes Hercules. That's just silly.

Orion is on par with Superman with brute strength?

So?

That doesn't prove his taking out Beta Ray Thor in a fight. Some would say Beta Ray Thor is on par with Thor. I wouldn't though.

Beta Ray Thor can obviously hang with Orion in hand to hand, and who wins is debatable. Throw in Stormbreaker, and Beta Ray Thor is obviously the clear winner.


To bad, and i WILL use herc as a example, thor outright admitted that herc was better in hand to hand then he was, thor actually had to use lighting to get herc off him.

Originally posted by zeel
To bad, and i WILL use herc as a example, thor outright admitted that herc was better in hand to hand then he was, thor actually had to use lighting to get herc off him.

facepalm

There feats outside their little squabbles put them at completely different levels. What has been enough to beat Hercules into the ground isn't enough to give Thor a bloody lip.

A great comparison is how Hercules even with the help of the Avengers, etc. did against the Hulk, and how well Thor does against the Hulk, whether it's mindless Hulk, or Savage Hulk.

Hence why using A, B, C logic is just plain stupid in this situation. It's completely illogical.

Thor is a better hand to hand fighter than Hercules as well as more experienced. After his death, he acquired the experiences, and memories of all his past lives.

Orion 6/10.