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EIther one from team two solos.

COIE Anti-Monitor & Living Tribunal are inconsequential.

Lucifer beats Lucifer.

I agree, take out LT from the equation,
and surely Lucifer has no challenge but himself.

Lucifer can't even create his own energy, Michael is the only one who could. So Lucifer's feats are ridiculous compared to the Living Tribunal's. The only argument he has going for him, is that he was second to the Presence--the same Presence who was shaped by forces external to himself. But that doesn't say much because the greatest feat in all of Vertigo was a work of Michael and Lucifer, the creation of a universe (which was later retconned to a Multiverse in Nirvana).

The Living Tribunal is second only to The-One-Above-All, but how powerful is he really? We'll the said title puts him over beings that has almost unlimited power and authority over the Marvel Omniverse. If we go by feats, he held two Megaverses in the palm of his hand.

The Living Tribunal takes all three down with minor effort.

Yeah, LT solos.

Or Lucifer convinces AM to knock off Mandrakk and then commit suicide.

Team 2. Lucifer.

LT/LM FTW

Lucifer

LT

Entirely based on opinion about the nature of the DC universe, and has no basis in feats.

Impossible to decide.

Originally posted by Astner
Lucifer can't even create his own energy, Michael is the only one who could. So Lucifer's feats are ridiculous compared to the Living Tribunal's. The only argument he has going for him, is that he was second to the Presence--the same Presence who was shaped by forces external to himself. But that doesn't say much because the greatest feat in all of Vertigo was a work of Michael and Lucifer, the creation of a universe (which was later retconned to a Multiverse in Nirvana).

The Living Tribunal is second only to The-One-Above-All, but how powerful is he really? We'll the said title puts him over beings that has almost unlimited power and authority over the Marvel Omniverse. If we go by feats, he held two Megaverses in the palm of his hand.

The Living Tribunal takes all three down with minor effort.

actually the greatest feat in vertigo was lucifer escaping predestination and threatening yahweh directly. and no, you havent seem to have read lucifer, seeing as elaine herself, without lucifer's power, already created her own multiverse which stood as a third creation alongside yahweh's and lucifers. ofcourse you might also call the wrapping of three multiverses into one by lucifer and his comrades as vertigos greatest feat, or lucifer taking in the entire timestream of another multiverse in the blink of an eye.

and lucifer can pretty easily obliterate a multiverse without draining his power.

and terms like megaverse and omniverse mean nuthing if there is no common ground to compare them on, realistically, LT held two universes in the multiverse that he guides. marvel has claim over nothing more than a single megaverse.

Team 2, COIE Anti-Monitor would be the only threat and Lucifer already went to The Source a being more powerful then anyone here and ignored it.

is the source stronger than the anti monitor?

Yes, it made everything and was the reason why the Anti-Monitor went to mess with it.

LT solos

but the source is only one aspect of the presence, who made everything. its a universal entity whose power is bound by the wall. and it cudnt reattach itself with the anti life because of the monitors.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
but the source is only one aspect of the presence, who made everything. its a universal entity whose power is bound by the wall. and it cudnt reattach itself with the anti life because of the monitors.

Not everything in Countdown was correct only what Superman or the reader could understand as everything in the Fourth World is much higher. The Source made the multiverse/universe as it is at very end and beginning, outside of that is Heaven and its darker half Hell along with other dimensions like the Fourth World and the Third World or where the Monitors are/were.

Originally posted by kevdude
Not everything in Countdown was correct only what Superman or the reader could understand
So, how do you know this?

Originally posted by Enyalus
So, how do you know this?

Because Grant has already said it before.

Originally posted by kevdude
Because Grant has already said it before.
Unless Kirby says something pertaining to the New Gods, I don't believe it. And since Kirby speaking on them is an impossibility, my own belief systems FTW!

kirby left the last new god story in his tombstone

Originally posted by kevdude
Team 2, COIE Anti-Monitor would be the only threat and Lucifer already went to The Source a being more powerful then anyone here and ignored it.
Lucifer ignoring The Source does not necessarily mean Lucifer > The Source.
It was stated on-panel that Lucifer was trying to find someone else, which was later revealed to be YHWH.

But I agree. Lucifer can solo the field.

^he AVOIDED it, indicating arrogance. you have to be either very stupid to show the source arrogance, or truly higher than it, lucifer is not stupid. and lets not also forget, he cud CROSS the source wall without a care in the world, unlike the source itself.

Lt solos.

Team 2 wins

Lucy makes all three of them commit suicide

He does?

Easily

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
Lucifer ignoring The Source does not necessarily mean Lucifer > The Source.
It was stated on-panel that Lucifer was trying to find someone else, which was later revealed to be YHWH.

But I agree. Lucifer can solo the field.

Lucifer went there to look for Michael not God, if he went to look for The Presence himself he would have went to Heaven and would have not been allowed to enter.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Lucy makes all three of them commit suicide You do realize if two characters are on the same team that they don't turn on each other.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You do realize if two characters are on the same team that they don't turn on each other.
And seriously, Lucy probably couldn't get all three of his faces to consent to it, lol.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You do realize if two characters are on the same team that they don't turn on each other.
Actually, he will.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Actually, he will. Based on what?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Based on what?
Just how powerful he is.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Just how powerful he is. When has he ever made a character as powerful as the Living Tribunal kill himself?

Originally posted by quanchi112
When has he ever made a character as powerful as the Living Tribunal kill himself?
He doesn't need to. He is just that powerful! Lt will have his guard down because that's his teammate.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
He doesn't need to. He is just that powerful! Lt will have his guard down because that's his teammate. I get it. You make things up in your head and pass them off as facts.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I get it. You make things up in your head and pass them off as facts.
not facts but opinions !!

Originally posted by xJLxKing
not facts but opinions !! My opinion is always based on the comics while yours isn't.

LT/Lucifer are a team here

And they win

Originally posted by Galan007
Team 2. Lucifer.

you know LT is on that team right?guess you only see things dc.meh

Originally posted by quanchi112
My opinion is always based on the comics while yours isn't. That made my day

Originally posted by xJLxKing
That made my day It's true. Lt hourglasses Lucy if he gets in his way.

Originally posted by quanchi112
It's true. Lt hourglasses Lucy if he gets in his way.
Oh yeah that is so based on the comic. Lol

^hourglasses?!?!?!?!?! what do u mean?

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Oh yeah that is so based on the comic. Lol It's happened in a comic. Yours was just a fantasy. Lt did it to someone more powerful than Lucy as well.

Each member of team two solos

Originally posted by quanchi112
It's happened in a comic. Yours was just a fantasy. Lt did it to someone more powerful than Lucy as well.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Ever read gotg?

1. if hourglassing has sumthing to do with time, it wont effect lucifer whatsoever

2. there is no1 in the marvel universe other than TOAA who is as powerful as lucifer

Originally posted by leonheartmm
1. if hourglassing has sumthing to do with time, it wont effect lucifer whatsoever

2. there is no1 in the marvel universe other than TOAA who is as powerful as lucifer 1.Did you read the comic?

2.Lucifer is overrated. Lt is more powerful. The Protege was as well. The heart, pretcon beyonder, MM, etc.

ugh3

Originally posted by quanchi112
1.Did you read the comic?

2.Lucifer is overrated. Lt is more powerful. The Protege was as well. The heart, pretcon beyonder, MM, etc.
Oh god!

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Oh god! I stand by those statements.

Originally posted by quanchi112
1.Did you read the comic?

2.Lucifer is overrated. Lt is more powerful. The Protege was as well. The heart, pretcon beyonder, MM, etc.

which comic????

no he isnt, and people whose knowledge of vertigo is limited to watching scans in debates shudnt make comments like that. the only one on the list whoe power might be even compareable to lucifer is pre retcon beyonder, but even that isnt equal.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I stand by those statements.

even as they are crushed repeatedly from time immemorial

Originally posted by leonheartmm
which comic????

no he isnt, and people whose knowledge of vertigo is limited to watching scans in debates shudnt make comments like that. the only one on the list whoe power might be even compareable to lucifer is pre retcon beyonder, but even that isnt equal. Guardians of the galaxy. Lucy has always been vastly overrated imo.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Guardians of the galaxy. Lucy has always been vastly overrated imo.

Yeah being the seconds most powerful being in the universe and only equal to his brother is clearly overrated

Originally posted by quanchi112
Guardians of the galaxy. Lucy has always been vastly overrated imo.

as it so happens, i have read guardians of the galaxy, atleast upto a bit into the war of kings. what does that have to do with anything?


how can you say he is overrated when i know for a fact that you havent read lucifer or sandman?

Originally posted by xJLxKing


Yeah being the seconds most powerful being in the universe and only equal to his brother is clearly overrated Care to debate?

Lucy's raw power is definitely overrated.

^debate what, his power is enough to create 50% of the multiverse and hes done it 1-2 times and each time it doesnt have any visible ill effect on his power level. he has withstood multiverse shattering force without a scratch at ground zero. his peers alone{elaine} can create a multiverse from scratch. he can survive without space time or existance. he escaped predestination. and in his world words like multiverse actually mean multiverse unlike most places in marvel and many in dc where linguistic guages of power level are used to debate without making sense.

Team 2 wins easily

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Oh god!
How to put this in terms you can comprehend.

Lucifer can't create energy, whereas the likes of Silver Surfer can.

Vertigo is set in a completely different setting. It's more down-to-earth, there are no ridiculously high feats and the ones that suggest that Lucifer could destroy "creations" are nothing but fanboys and wouldn't be capable of proving their claim if their lives depended on it.

Lucifer's greatest feat was shaping an alternate creation. He got the "stuff" to do so out of Michael's death.

The Living Tribunal held two megaverses in his palm, Lucifer's and Michael's creation would be an infinitesimal part in one of those megaverses.

The Living Tribunal would, based on feats, destroy the entire Vertigo setting--including the "restricted" Presence--since no feat in Vertigo are even close to having complete dominion over two megaverses.

I say again... each member on team two solos

When has the Surfer created energy?

Originally posted by leonheartmm
as it so happens, i have read guardians of the galaxy, atleast upto a bit into the war of kings. what does that have to do with anything?


how can you say he is overrated when i know for a fact that you havent read lucifer or sandman?

Not current gotg, the first series.

Ps. If you read the current then how wouldn't you know this.

Originally posted by Astner
How to put this in terms you can comprehend.

Lucifer can't create energy, whereas the likes of Silver Surfer can.

Vertigo is set in a completely different setting. It's more down-to-earth, there are no ridiculously high feats and the ones that suggest that Lucifer could destroy "creations" are nothing but fanboys and wouldn't be capable of proving their claim if their lives depended on it.

Lucifer's greatest feat was shaping an alternate creation. He got the "stuff" to do so out of Michael's death.

The Living Tribunal held two megaverses in his palm, Lucifer's and Michael's creation would be an infinitesimal part in one of those megaverses.

The Living Tribunal would, based on feats, destroy the entire Vertigo setting--including the "restricted" Presence--since no feat in Vertigo are even close to having complete dominion over two megaverses.
Can't create, but he can manipulate or use another source of energy.

Originally posted by Astner
How to put this in terms you can comprehend.

Lucifer can't create energy, whereas the likes of Silver Surfer can.

Vertigo is set in a completely different setting. It's more down-to-earth, there are no ridiculously high feats and the ones that suggest that Lucifer could destroy "creations" are nothing but fanboys and wouldn't be capable of proving their claim if their lives depended on it.

Lucifer's greatest feat was shaping an alternate creation. He got the "stuff" to do so out of Michael's death.

The Living Tribunal held two megaverses in his palm, Lucifer's and Michael's creation would be an infinitesimal part in one of those megaverses.

The Living Tribunal would, based on feats, destroy the entire Vertigo setting--including the "restricted" Presence--since no feat in Vertigo are even close to having complete dominion over two megaverses.

are you honestly LISTENING to yourself??!!!! go READ lucifer before you start making ridiculous statement based on your dislike of him.

lucifer CAN create energy, he IS energy, what he cant create is MATTER out of nothing. lucifer creates energy and time and micheal creates matter and space.

they arent fanboys, micheal's demiurgic explosion was stated on panel to have the power to completely detsroy the multiverse on two different occasions having major consequences on the stroyline {first being the defeat of the angelic host and creation of lucifer's multiverse and the second being micheal giving his power to elaine}. they have the same level of power and lucifer's light bringer powers can do the same thing. also, the TWO brothers being required to create a multiverse was refuted IN lucifer later, when elaine, with only micheal's power having no energy contribution from lucifer was able to create and shape her own multiverse, the third one.

LT did not hold two MEGAverses in one hand, on panel means less than shit if it doesnt follow norms of legal comic book convention. the entire marvel reality is a megaverse, NOT an omniverse, as omniverse includes all comic book and other media. LT held two UNIVERSES of the singular multiverse which is contained in the marvel megaverse along wiht the void and the beyond realm. this is not debateable unless you want to change the meaning of words.

for the love of god, go and read sandman/lucifer.

Originally posted by quanchi112


Not current gotg, the first series.

Ps. If you read the current then how wouldn't you know this.

ive read it, im saying your wrong and lying yet again, just like your previous claim concering prime and the anti monitor has been proved to be a false delusion.

Either of team 2 could solo.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
ive read it, im saying your wrong and lying yet again, just like your previous claim concering prime and the anti monitor has been proved to be a false delusion. If you read it why would you claim you read the current series when it obviously has nothing to do with the Lt and the said feat?


Here we go with you bringing up other threads again.

^ehhhhhhhhhhhh? YOU r the one making the claim on behalf of LT's power based on said series. i said ive read the same series and have not seen anything to justify the feats or power levels you describe and ask you what having read the said series has to do with your claim of said character's power level. its one of those things you do, go through an entire paradigm shift after enough replies have passed on the initial argument that most people find it hard to remember the actual thing under discussion.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
^ehhhhhhhhhhhh? YOU r the one making the claim on behalf of LT's power based on said series. i said ive read the same series and have not seen anything to justify the feats or power levels you describe and ask you what having read the said series has to do with your claim of said character's power level. its one of those things you do, go through an entire paradigm shift after enough replies have passed on the initial argument that most people find it hard to remember the actual thing under discussion. Lt performed the feat in gotg. You can't deny it. Do you know the circumstances involved in that arc since you claimed you read it?

im not denying the feat, im saying that it has nuthing on lucifer.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
im not denying the feat, im saying that it has nuthing on lucifer.
What, manipulating Michael's power after its released to form his own universe?

Originally posted by leonheartmm
im not denying the feat, im saying that it has nuthing on lucifer. Who did Lt perform the feat on and why?

You haven't proven it.

on protege and im hazy but i think it had to do with the nature of protege's power and trapping him in the hourglass of "time anew" contained/destroyed him. this was all very long ago, but as i said, it has nuthing on sum1 who can create time as an asbtract concept from, nuthing and push it forward as well as determine its gradient.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
on protege and im hazy but i think it had to do with the nature of protege's power and trapping him in the hourglass of "time anew" contained/destroyed him. this was all very long ago, but as i said, it has nuthing on sum1 who can create time as an asbtract concept from, nuthing and push it forward as well as determine its gradient. Ok, why are you so sure it won't work on Lucy?

^because not only can lucy exist rather easilu OUTSIDE time, but he can also create the very concept of time from nothingness and then mould its direction and even its gradient compared to other times in other creations. for sum1 like that, the hourglass is a child's toy. now, why did u think it wud work on lucifer if you have never read lucifer?

Originally posted by leonheartmm
but he can also create the very concept of time from nothingness and then mould its direction and even its gradient compared to other times in other creations.
I've read the entire Lucifer series, including the specials like Nirvana, etc.

I've never seen him do this, that I can recall. You have something that'll jog my memory?

^???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

DUDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

when lucifer creates his own multiverse after micheal's rebirth. then again when he has to fight against those cards{i forget their name}

Originally posted by leonheartmm
^???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

DUDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

when lucifer creates his own multiverse after micheal's rebirth. then again when he has to fight against those cards{i forget their name} That's nice, but that still isn't above the Lt. Protege was a multiversal threat and he fell before the hourglass. I think it's safe to say Lucy does as well.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
^???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

DUDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

when lucifer creates his own multiverse after micheal's rebirth. then again when he has to fight against those cards{i forget their name}
You're talking about when Lucy kills Michael and releases his energies into the void to form his own universe?

Basanos, or something to that affect. I don't recall him "creating time," but I won't press it because both of those battles are hazy in my mind lol.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That's nice, but that still isn't above the Lt. Protege was a multiversal threat and he fell before the hourglass. I think it's safe to say Lucy does as well.

when multiverse shattering explosions have no effetc on lucy whatsoever, when he can create time from nuthing on a multiversal level repeatedly??????????? your ignorance is mind boggling

Originally posted by Enyalus
You're talking about when Lucy kills Michael and releases his energies into the void to form his own universe?

Basanos, or something to that affect. I don't recall him "creating time," but I won't press it because both of those battles are hazy in my mind lol.

actually that is exactly what i recall, he creates time from NOTHING and BLASTS it FORWARD, because he knows that time is the crucial factor.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
when multiverse shattering explosions have no effetc on lucy whatsoever, when he can create time from nuthing on a multiversal level repeatedly??????????? your ignorance is mind boggling So, you can't prove it. Thought so.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So, you can't prove it. Thought so.


your drugged, ive already proven it by stating how lucifer's time powers are superior to that of the hourglass in every way. that is evidence.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
your drugged, ive already proven it by stating how lucifer's time powers are superior to that of the hourglass in every way. that is evidence. No, they really haven't. You just talked about a feat which has nothing to do with the hourglass.

^this is like the past few claims youve made and been raped on. it has everything to do with the hourglass

Originally posted by leonheartmm
^this is like the past few claims youve made and been raped on. it has everything to do with the hourglass
Please quit referring to Quan being raped.

It's a real turn-on.

droolio

Originally posted by leonheartmm
^this is like the past few claims youve made and been raped on. it has everything to do with the hourglass No, it doesn't. You seem to have quite a fascination with rape. Odd.

^yes it does, and you havent given a single reason why it doesnt while ive given my reason which detsroy your claim. keep on living in the dream world.

i dont have a fascination with rape, i do however, have a fascination with your shamelessness in defeat.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
^yes it does, and you havent given a single reason why it doesnt while ive given my reason which detsroy your claim. keep on living in the dream world.

i dont have a fascination with rape, i do however, have a fascination with your shamelessness in defeat. My eyes hurt everytime I have to read a post of yours.


The hourglass would easily own Lucy. It owned a multiversal threat and would so so here.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
^debate what, his power is enough to create 50% of the multiverse and hes done it 1-2 times and each time it doesnt have any visible ill effect on his power level. he has withstood multiverse shattering force without a scratch at ground zero. his peers alone{elaine} can create a multiverse from scratch. he can survive without space time or existance. he escaped predestination. and in his world words like multiverse actually mean multiverse unlike most places in marvel and many in dc where linguistic guages of power level are used to debate without making sense.
mr. mxy can do all that and it doesn't drain any of his power. and his power was enough to create 100% of the multiverse iirc. So that's not a good example team 2 ftw.

Originally posted by quanchi112
My eyes hurt everytime I have to read a post of yours.


The hourglass would easily own Lucy. It owned a multiversal threat and would so so here.

again, a threat INSIDE a multiverse is different from a threat to MULTIPLE MULTIVERSES , THAT is what lucifer IS. a creator and threat to multiple multiverses who has the power to threaten even yahweh, stop posting until you can claim to have read lucifer.

Originally posted by LDHZenkai
mr. mxy can do all that and it doesn't drain any of his power. and his power was enough to create 100% of the multiverse iirc. So that's not a good example team 2 ftw.

myx has been owned by the spectre in the past. he can not create a multiverse once let alone more than once. he can not threaten the presence.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
lucifer CAN create energy
Wrong. Only Michael could, try again.

Originally posted by leonheartmm they arent fanboys
I never argued that their feats weren't multiversal. Simply that multiversal feats to the Living Tribunal is nothing since he's hold two megaverses.

Originally posted by leonheartmm LT did not hold two MEGAverses in one hand, on panel means less than shit if it doesnt follow norms of legal comic book convention.
The panel said Megaverses. I want a legal paragraph supporting the bolded statement in the quote.

Originally posted by leonheartmm the entire marvel reality is a megaverse, NOT an omniverse, as omniverse includes all comic book and other media.
No it doesn't. Omniverse is a cosmological term describing all existence, ficton is not part of that existence (no more than a paper is). Marvel using the term to describe their creation is perfectly valid.

Originally posted by leonheartmm LT held two UNIVERSES of the singular multiverse which is contained in the marvel megaverse along wiht the void and the beyond realm. this is not debateable unless you want to change the meaning of words.
Panel said Megaverses. The Beyond-realm is non-canon.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
again, a threat INSIDE a multiverse is different from a threat to MULTIPLE MULTIVERSES , THAT is what lucifer IS. a creator and threat to multiple multiverses who has the power to threaten even yahweh, stop posting until you can claim to have read lucifer. You are wrong. The multiverse is the multiverse.Originally posted by leonheartmm
myx has been owned by the spectre in the past. he can not create a multiverse once let alone more than once. he can not threaten the presence. Vertigo and dc are separate from each other.

Originally posted by Astner
Wrong. Only Michael could, try again.


I never argued that their feats weren't multiversal. Simply that multiversal feats to the Living Tribunal is nothing since he's hold two megaverses.


The panel said Megaverses. I want a legal paragraph supporting the bolded statement in the quote.


No it doesn't. Omniverse is a cosmological term describing all existence, ficton is not part of that existence (no more than a paper is). Marvel using the term to describe their creation is perfectly valid.


Panel said Megaverses. The Beyond-realm is non-canon.


actually your so wrong here its not even funny. micheal can NOT create energy, that is HIS limitation as the begiining of the series. he can create MATTER while the LIGHTBRINGER{theres a reason for this name} lucifer can create ENERGY and start the stars burnign. what lucifer cant create ex nihilo is MATTER, youve got the whole thing BACKWARDS! and you havent even read lucifer so why the silly claim?

however, if we take marvel's definition of the word, then lucifer and micheal created two OMNIIVERSES. words aree nothign without meaning. im saying that MEANINGFULLY, you can only compare the two feats when the words have the same meaning.

and the meanings of multiverse/megaverse/omniverse are generally understood to be what ive explained. even if writers stray for poetic grandeosity. this has been debated ad nauseam, u dont have an argument. id give u a wiki but they have changed it more concerning the definition in physics as opposed to comics. but here is the definition for clarificatoin

universe-self explanatory

multiverse- the finite or infinite collection of connected universes which is self contained and seperate form the void outsdie them

megaverse- the absolute world of a comic book/media publisher which can consist of any where from one univere/dumension upto multiple self contained multiverse, the void outside them and any other dimensions{e.g the beyond realm} in this void which can not be classified as a multiverse/universe. does not include the 4th wall

omniverse- the complete collection of every reality{megaverse} of every media{books/movies/cartoons/shows/comics} including our own real universe and hence the 4th wall. - a part of the multiverse only comes in play in either the comic publisher's fourth wall or crosssover with other comic book publishers or medias etc where the megaverse cant confine the context.

there you go.

and the beyond realm is still cannon as that is where the energy for cosmic cubes comes from.

now, unless you want to debate based on the meanign behind words and not meaningless linguistics, there no point continuing on.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You are wrong. The multiverse is the multiverse. Vertigo and dc are separate from each other.

but there are three multiverses on panel in lucifer................... so YOUR wrong

to an extent, however, constantine/phantom stranger/fate/trenchcoat brigade/swamp thing/martian manhunter/the source/spectre and the presence appear in both.

No, there's one main Vertigo universe. That has several dimensions, etc, so could be referred to as a multiverse. And then Elaine creates her own universe. And before that Lucifer shapes his universe from Michael's power.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
but there are three multiverses on panel in lucifer................... so YOUR wrong

to an extent, however, constantine/phantom stranger/fate/trenchcoat brigade/swamp thing/martian manhunter/the source/spectre and the presence appear in both. It has been explained that they are separate by dc.


Lt has displayed more power than Lucy. Protege threatened the Lt therefore Protege was more powerful than Lucy.

Originally posted by Enyalus
No, there's one main Vertigo universe. That has several dimensions, etc, so could be referred to as a multiverse. And then Elaine creates her own universe. And before that Lucifer shapes his universe from Michael's power.

lucifer states on panel that his creation is a "multiverse" now unless you wanna say hes lying.................. the only vertigo universes which have connections are sandman/hellblazer/books of magic/lucifer the others like preacher are not in any way connected to other vertifo titles. there is no VERTIGO universe.


the multiverse in lucifer has multiple UNIVERSES with alternate VERSIONS of people living in them like 616/666 new universal universe or the main dc and the prime universe. not Dimensions, and elaine creates her own MULTIVERSE as the word universe was only being used for convenience and lucifer has already categorically explained such creations to be totalities/multiverses.

please READ lucifer before commenting.

Originally posted by quanchi112
It has been explained that they are separate by dc.


Lt has displayed more power than Lucy. Protege threatened the Lt therefore Protege was more powerful than Lucy.

not specifically and the crossover element is there, u dont know because you havent read said titles.

circular reasoning at its worse. prove that LT has displayed more power by comparing feats. by feats lucifer has more power since LT cudnt face the death of the multiverse by the heart of the universe while lucifers was not harmed at all by the multiverse shattering demiurgic explosion. read lucifer before making such claims.

Originally posted by Astner
Wrong. Only Michael could, try again.


I never argued that their feats weren't multiversal. Simply that multiversal feats to the Living Tribunal is nothing since he's hold two megaverses.


The panel said Megaverses. I want a legal paragraph supporting the bolded statement in the quote.


No it doesn't. Omniverse is a cosmological term describing all existence, ficton is not part of that existence (no more than a paper is). Marvel using the term to describe their creation is perfectly valid.


Panel said Megaverses. The Beyond-realm is non-canon. Originally posted by leonheartmm
not specifically and the crossover element is there, u dont know because you havent read said titles.

circular reasoning at its worse. prove that LT has displayed more power by comparing feats. by feats lucifer has more power since LT cudnt face the death of the multiverse by the heart of the universe while lucifers was not harmed at all by the multiverse shattering demiurgic explosion. read lucifer before making such claims. Someone already did it for me.

^lmao, no they didnt, they dont even know thats its MICHEAL who cant create energy instead of lucifer and flipped the two, and their argument is wrecked, as is yours, simply because NEITHER of the two of you know a thing about lucifer, not having READ it and all.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
^lmao, no they didnt, they dont even know thats its MICHEAL who cant create energy instead of lucifer and flipped the two, and their argument is wrecked, as is yours, simply because NEITHER of the two of you know a thing about lucifer, not having READ it and all. Everything you post is off in some way or another. Everything. You totally ignore context.

^I ignore context?!?!?!?! you havent even READ LUCIFER YOU IDIOT!

Lulz.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
^I ignore context?!?!?!?! you havent even READ LUCIFER YOU IDIOT! I don't think you have read it.

^a person who has never read it THINKS that sum1 else hasnt read it??!?!?!!?!??!!?!!? how do you know when you havent read it in the first place?!?!!?

i KNOW you havent read it. and i KNOW i have.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
^a person who has never read it THINKS that sum1 else hasnt read it??!?!?!!?!??!!?!!? how do you know when you havent read it in the first place?!?!!?

i KNOW you havent read it. and i KNOW i have. You also claimed that skrulls can't replicate powers and said there was no retcon. You claim you read things, but don't actually read them imo.

^skrulls CANT replicate powers. when one mentions a power replicater one thinks of sum1 with the ability to produce the powers of opponents or other super powered beings in comics. skrulls can ENGINEER super skrulls who have the same set of powers ENGINEERED not REPLICATED like peter petrelli from birth and they cant REPLICATE any other powers in the entirety of their lives. i have read them and you are simply trying to cover up the fact that you initially beleived on account of being a n idiot that skrulls can replicate powers just like they replicate appearances of others.

and i have read it, and all other things vertigo with a connection to lucy, PERIOD, you havent, and are talking out of your ass and getting raped every other turn based on facts a a result. if youd like, i can give you scans.......but then again, you ran away like a ***** the lastt time i mentioned scans.................

Originally posted by leonheartmm
^skrulls CANT replicate powers. when one mentions a power replicater one thinks of sum1 with the ability to produce the powers of opponents or other super powered beings in comics. skrulls can ENGINEER super skrulls who have the same set of powers ENGINEERED not REPLICATED like peter petrelli from birth and they cant REPLICATE any other powers in the entirety of their lives. i have read them and you are simply trying to cover up the fact that you initially beleived on account of being a n idiot that skrulls can replicate powers just like they replicate appearances of others.

and i have read it, and all other things vertigo with a connection to lucy, PERIOD, you havent, and are talking out of your ass and getting raped every other turn based on facts a a result. if youd like, i can give you scans.......but then again, you ran away like a ***** the lastt time i mentioned scans................. They can replicate powers when engineered to do so. That is what happened with the bb skrull. You had no clue about the retcon. Fought it and then claimed they couldn't replicate and then changed your argument to the need to be engineered.

Everyone and I mean everyone called you out on it.

but engineering=/= replication so you FAIL. replication is called EMPATHY a power that protege had if you remember. and your a bad bad liar, but i suppose being bitter does that after beig called out on every lie.

i never changed my argument, it was consistant from beginning to end as i stated in the post.

and you havent read lucifer, so this discussion is at an end and you arent entitled to say anything.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
but engineering=/= replication so you FAIL. replication is called EMPATHY a power that protege had if you remember. and your a bad bad liar, but i suppose being bitter does that after beig called out on every lie.

i never changed my argument, it was consistant from beginning to end as i stated in the post.

and you havent read lucifer, so this discussion is at an end and you arent entitled to say anything. If it was consistent then multiple posters wouldn't chime in to laugh and mock you.

I don't think you read it. I don't think you read any of these comics. I think you thumb through respect threads and try to piece things together.

two did, you and your friend who didnt know and admitted later that he was replying to posts not directed at him, and then later went on to oppose you in discussion, lol

but then how is it that i can produce scans of lucifer tha werent on the respect thread, infact, i can produce any scan of any page not on the respect thread from lucifer.............. and why is it that you ran away like a ***** when i asked you if you wanted the scans to prove that i had read it and that you are full of shit? answer me quan

an none of that changes the fact that YOU havent read lucifer. i have, deal with it punk.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
two did, you and your friend who didnt know and admitted later that he was replying to posts not directed at him, and then later went on to oppose you in discussion, lol

but then how is it that i can produce scans of lucifer tha werent on the respect thread, infact, i can produce any scan of any page not on the respect thread from lucifer.............. and why is it that you ran away like a ***** when i asked you if you wanted the scans to prove that i had read it and that you are full of shit? answer me quan

an none of that changes the fact that YOU havent read lucifer. i have, deal with it punk. I see all this blows right over your head.

I don't think you read it.

but no1 cares what you think, i have read it and can produce every page of that comic including the ones which arent on any respect thread as evidence.

now, have you read it, just answer this question little boy.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
but no1 cares what you think, i have read it and can produce every page of that comic including the ones which arent on any respect thread as evidence.

now, have you read it, just answer this question little boy. You obviously do.


Back to the topic.

^i dont. debating has to do with humiliating you based on the liar you are. im sorry if that made you feal like you were significant.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
^i dont. debating has to do with humiliating you based on the liar you are. im sorry if that made you feal like you were significant. I feel great actually. I feel better than ever after having an exchange with yourself.

so your delusional and repressing the memories of your ownage based on your lying and stupidity. gotcha

lol

Originally posted by leonheartmm
so your delusional and repressing the memories of your ownage based on your lying and stupidity. gotcha No, it's just you make me feel like the smartest guy in all of the multiverses.

^so dementia and reality testing suffer pathological symptoms too, making the patient interpret normal stimuli in a completely reversed fashion. anything else?

Originally posted by leonheartmm
^so dementia and reality testing suffer pathological symptoms too, making the patient interpret normal stimuli in a completely reversed fashion. anything else? Ok, I am done responding to your flames. It gets old and is kinda boring. Lt solos.

^there there, time to go to bed dear, dont forget your meds now.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
^there there, time to go to bed dear, dont forget your meds now. Are you hitting on me? Who calls another man dear.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
megaverse- the absolute world of a comic book/media publisher which can consist of any where from one univere/dumension upto multiple self contained multiverse, the void outside them and any other dimensions{e.g the beyond realm} in this void which can not be classified as a multiverse/universe. does not include the 4th wall

omniverse- the complete collection of every reality{megaverse} of every media{books/movies/cartoons/shows/comics} including our own real universe and hence the 4th wall. - a part of the multiverse only comes in play in either the comic publisher's fourth wall or crosssover with other comic book publishers or medias etc where the megaverse cant confine the context.
So we should take your unsupported word for it--while the panel evidence point elsewhere? Sorry, you don't have that authority.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Are you hitting on me? Who calls another man dear.

his father obviously...........and you didnt get it, but that is to be expected from a mentally ill.............er challenged little boy

Originally posted by Astner
So we should take your unsupported word for it--while the panel evidence point elsewhere? Sorry, you don't have that authority.

but i didnt come up with them, they are the respected norm and were present on wikipedia up until a while ago until they were replaced by physical science based articles. again, those are the actual definitions. and it doesnt even matter since if we take the meaning, then according to marvel, lucifer created two omniverses.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
but i didnt come up with them, they are the respected norm and were present on wikipedia up until a while ago until they were replaced by physical science based articles. again, those are the actual definitions. and it doesnt even matter since if we take the meaning, then according to marvel, lucifer created two omniverses.
Did you use an outdated wikipedia article as source for your claims? An article which anyone could've made or edit. No, that certainly doesn't qualify when opposed to Marvel's canon material.

The actual definition for the omniverse is all existence, since universe or multiverse are not enough to describe the modern cosmology. It's not founded in the work of fiction like you suggest.

No, Lucifer did not create two omniverses. Lucifer created a universe which was later appeared to be a multiverse. A multiverse is as far from a megaverse as a universe is to a multiverse.

Universe: A reality
Multiverse: An infinite amount of universes
Megaverse (Multiverse type II): An infinite amount of multiverses
Omniverse (Multiverse type III): An infinite amount of megaverses.

^untrue, the current dc is considered a multiverse and yet it only has 32 universes.

it isnt a progression, since the street fighter megaverse only has one universe in it.

omniverse is th sum total of all media and non media realities.

wikipedia is as accurate as any othher encyclopdia like brittanica, doesnt change anything.

if we go by the meaning behind words than lucifer created two omniverses. you cant have both, either accept that LT held two megaverses and megaverse in marvel is the same as universe in luciferverse. or he held two universes according to lucifer verse. you keep switching between linguistics and formal logic when it suits you.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
^untrue, the current dc is considered a multiverse and yet it only has 32 universes.
I was talking physics, and obviously you're overlooking hyper-time.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
it isnt a progression, since the street fighter megaverse only has one universe in it.
Then it's a universe and not a Megaverse. Has it ever been referred to as a Megaverse? Or is it only you trying to justify your false and bias claims? I think the latter.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
omniverse is th sum total of all media and non media realities.
Are you still going on with this bullshit? The omniverse is a cosmological term which describes all reality. You can't even prove your position yet you refuse to concede. That if anything is bias.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
wikipedia is as accurate as any othher encyclopdia like brittanica, doesnt change anything.
Wrong. Wikipedia is not a source of information. That's why there usually is external links at the bottom of the page to the actual sources of what they've written. Furthermore you can't prove it because you claimed it was "edited", since you inaccurately use Wikipedia as a source and not looking at the actual sources your validity equals zero--even if what you said is true.


Originally posted by leonheartmm
if we go by the meaning behind words than lucifer created two omniverses.
Prove it. Panel evidence requested. Lucifer created at least one omniverse. That or concede.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
you cant have both, either accept that LT held two megaverses
A Megaverse is greater than a multiverse according to the Marvel handbook, which you can ask Mr Master to provide for you.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
and megaverse in marvel is the same as universe in luciferverse.
No, a universe in Vertigo equals a universe in Marvel.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
or he held two universes according to lucifer verse. you keep switching between linguistics and formal logic when it suits you.
The panel said Megaverses, and I go with what the panel. Unlike you who pull shit out of your own ass and consider it canon.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
his father obviously...........and you didnt get it, but that is to be expected from a mentally ill.............er challenged little boy I'm still laughing hysterically at you.Originally posted by leonheartmm
but i didnt come up with them, they are the respected norm and were present on wikipedia up until a while ago until they were replaced by physical science based articles. again, those are the actual definitions. and it doesnt even matter since if we take the meaning, then according to marvel, lucifer created two omniverses. Wikpedia. How do you expect to be taken seriously?

Originally posted by leonheartmm
lucifer states on panel that his creation is a "multiverse" now unless you wanna say hes lying..................
Show me.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
please READ lucifer before commenting.
I have.

Originally posted by Astner
I was talking physics, and obviously you're overlooking hyper-time.


Then it's a universe and not a Megaverse. Has it ever been referred to as a Megaverse? Or is it only you trying to justify your false and bias claims? I think the latter.


Are you still going on with this bullshit? The omniverse is a cosmological term which describes all reality. You can't even prove your position yet you refuse to concede. That if anything is bias.


Wrong. Wikipedia is not a source of information. That's why there usually is external links at the bottom of the page to the actual sources of what they've written. Furthermore you can't prove it because you claimed it was "edited", since you inaccurately use Wikipedia as a source and not looking at the actual sources your validity equals zero--even if what you said is true.



Prove it. Panel evidence requested. Lucifer created at least one omniverse. That or concede.


A Megaverse is greater than a multiverse according to the Marvel handbook, which you can ask Mr Master to provide for you.


No, a universe in Vertigo equals a universe in Marvel.


The panel said Megaverses, and I go with what the panel. Unlike you who pull shit out of your own ass and consider it canon.

1. statistical studies between wikipedia and other respected encyclopedias has proven that it is as valid

2. panel means NOTHING in this debate, stop being thick. it is the VALIDITY of the panel that is being discussed and on panel evidence can not be crammed into sum1's mouth just so you feel like you have a case. again, UNIverse is the only thing that can be compared between companies and publishers. that is about the only constant. multiverse unless stated otherwise has an infinite number of universes and is self contained. this is true for lucifer and marvel.

MEGAVERSE however, isnt a progression from a multiverse but the sum total of a comic book reality. now obviously, LT can not hold two MEGAVERSES if this definition is to hold, and this definition DOES hold in lucifer. so, reasonably, it was either two universes, or two multiverses. now, for the longer time and in more instances specially in the past, LT has been referred to as a MULTIVERSAL guardian, which is why he can sumtimes try to destroy UNIverses to keep the multiversal balance. not only that, but the heart of the universe/UN/infinite being as well as secret wars all hint that marvel is a singular self contained consrtuct of infinite universes, meanign ONE multiverse. so it goes to reason that by the same definitions that lucifer has, LT held TWO UNIverses. nuthing more nuthing less. lucifer has specifically described THREE multiverses with small links to each other and yahweh. and a void with an apparently infinite number of other totalities rising and falling forever in the void and together they make up the lucifer MEGAVERSE. these three though are the ones related to lucifer. this is obviously more than marvel and the fact that lucifer can create from scratch however many he wished while presiding over two of those three means that in FACT he is much MUCH superior to LT or the heart of the universe.

now, i have explained it ad nauseum. please do NOT bring up this bullshit wordplay which means nothing in reality or ON PANEL evidence as the panel's validity itself is under question here. LT is inferior to lucifer unless you can explain to me, like i explained to you that he isnt. linguistics mean nuthing unless you can agree on the common definition of words, without them, nuthing can be compared.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I'm still laughing hysterically at you. Wikpedia. How do you expect to be taken seriously?

i know, mentally challenged people have been known to laugh hystericaly at random things.

no1 takes you seriously so whats the point of baiting me on things you know nothing about?

Here is another poster calling you out.

Originally posted by Enyalus

Show me.


I have.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
i know, mentally challenged people have been known to laugh hystericaly at random things.

no1 takes you seriously so whats the point of baiting me on things you know nothing about? I am laughing at you for lying and being foolish enough to use wikipedia as a credible source.

Originally posted by Enyalus

Show me.


I have.

lets hope im doing this right, been a while.

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll150/leonheartmm/Lucifer_Nirvana_p05.jpg



<a href="http://s287.photobucket.com/albums/ll150/leonheartmm/?action=view&current=Lucifer_Nirvana_p05.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll150/leonheartmm/Lucifer_Nirvana_p05.jpg" border="0" alt="nirvana"></a>

http://s287.photobucket.com/albums/ll150/leonheartmm/?action=view&current=Lucifer_Nirvana_p05.jpg

Originally posted by leonheartmm
lets hope im doing this right, been a while.




You don't even know how to put a scan up.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Here is another poster calling you out.



I am laughing at you for lying and being foolish enough to use wikipedia as a credible source.


err, no, hes asking for the scan and ive already posted the link to my photobucket page which has it since it was too large for kmc to upload you moron. maybe u shud go there and read it too.

says the person who has never read lucifer, and pretends to debate about it. your laughing because you have mental disabilities thats all there is to it.

you dont know though that wikipedia has been cross referenced to be as good as any other encyclopedia and their articles are scanned. why dont u keep your mouth shut from now on? youve been humiliated enough.

Originally posted by quanchi112


You don't even know how to put a scan up.

idiot.

read my last post

Originally posted by leonheartmm
lets hope im doing this right, been a while.

http://s287.photobucket.com/albums/ll150/leonheartmm/?action=view&current=Lucifer_Nirvana_p05.jpg
Okay. But, since you've read Lucifer, you know that it wasn't Lucifer's power that created it, it was Michael's demiurgic power which did so.

leonheartmm, you failed at deliver any of my requests.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
2. panel means NOTHING in this debate, stop being thick.
This makes one give up hope in convincing you.