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MM vs Juggernaut
who wins

JUGGS

Jonn

with the skullcap on, juggy stomps.

without the skullcap, and j'onn knowing that removing the helmet will make him vulnerable, j'onn without too much difficulty.

no skull cap
is skull cap immune to phasing powers

Even split, or MM for the slight majority.

MM is too versatile for Juggs. Once he turns intangible, there's no way for Juggs to hurt him. And Juggs doesn't have any psionic abilities to counter intangibility.

Juggs, on the other hand, won't even be fazed by any of MM's attacks.

However, if MM has basic knowledge that the helmet makes Juggs immune to TP, then Juggs gets omfgwtfpwned.

MM.

MM for a majority, provided he realizes the helmet protects Juggernaut from TP. MM has enough tricks, and the strength needed to remove Jugg's skullcap.

MM 6-7/10

Manhunter.

At his best, he would take very little damage from Juggernaut and even without knowledge of what the helmet does his relentless pummeling would eventually remove both helmets and leave Juggernaut open for mental attack.

Manhunter ftw.

J'onn, every time.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
Even split, or MM for the slight majority.

MM is too versatile for Juggs. Once he turns intangible, there's no way for Juggs to hurt him. And Juggs doesn't have any psionic abilities to counter intangibility.

Juggs, on the other hand, won't even be fazed by any of MM's attacks.

However, if MM has basic knowledge that the helmet makes Juggs immune to TP, then Juggs gets omfgwtfpwned.


Juggernaut could affect xaviers astral form? phasing isnt how he would win.


he would have to remove the helmet and mind rape him. MM may be one of the few people that can actually take juggernaut for a majority by himself... thats rare.

juggernaut in theory could still rely on his force field... then his helmet would never come off. in which case he could win a few. but still mm 7 - 8 of 10.

The only thing J'ohn has going for him is flight and telepathy.

Originally posted by KingD19
The only thing J'ohn has going for him is flight and telepathy.
The only thing Cain has going for him is strength.

MM wins majority, if not all of the battles.

That's all he needs, since he's beaten just about everyone he fought with brute strength. And if MM doesn't know to get his helmet off, all he can do is phase, and try to stay away from him, which I count as a win for Cain.

Originally posted by KillAll
Juggernaut could affect xaviers astral form? phasing isnt how he would win.


he would have to remove the helmet and mind rape him. MM may be one of the few people that can actually take juggernaut for a majority by himself... thats rare.

juggernaut in theory could still rely on his force field... then his helmet would never come off. in which case he could win a few. but still mm 7 - 8 of 10.
Didn't Juggernaut affect Xavier's astral form during the wager of octessance?

Also I'm not sure what the mechanics are behind astral projection in Marvel but telepathy itself is based on electromagnetism and Manhunter phases by partially entering another dimension so I don't think they can directly correlate.

But I guess if Juggernaut is allowed to use one time feats, or in this case, two time feats, he could pull a few stalemates.

It's only a matter of time until the helmets come off. Once that happens, Cain is done.

MM wins.

MM

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
It's only a matter of time until the helmets come off. Once that happens, Cain is done. the helmet has to be attacked where it connects to his costume for it to come off, the helmet itself has withstood multiple class 100 shots without simply "falling off".

shit, wwh crumpled the helmet and it stayed put.

Yeah, but the TC said his skull cap is off for this match.

Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
Didn't Juggernaut affect Xavier's astral form during the wager of octessance?

Also I'm not sure what the mechanics are behind astral projection in Marvel but telepathy itself is based on electromagnetism and Manhunter phases by partially entering another dimension so I don't think they can directly correlate.

But I guess if Juggernaut is allowed to use one time feats, or in this case, two time feats, he could pull a few stalemates.


why does it matter when he did it? juggernaut is a mystical character and we are not Sure what he is capable of.


as for phasing into anotehr dimension, juggernaut has shown to be able to smash down the walls between dimensions. on more than one occasion. i'm not sure that he would be able to do it on the fly, but he could in theory do it. i'm not argueing a case for juggernaut. i'm argueing a case that he will not go down by phasing. it is still entirely possible that he could still erect his force field and stop him from even entereing while phased. after all, NOTHING has penetrated his force field. except being mind f***ed

still mm wins, alot more than he loses.

Originally posted by KillAll
why does it matter when he did it? juggernaut is a mystical character and we are not Sure what he is capable of.


as for phasing into anotehr dimension, juggernaut has shown to be able to smash down the walls between dimensions. on more than one occasion. i'm not sure that he would be able to do it on the fly, but he could in theory do it. i'm not argueing a case for juggernaut. i'm argueing a case that he will not go down by phasing. it is still entirely possible that he could still erect his force field and stop him from even entereing while phased. after all, NOTHING has penetrated his force field. except being mind f***ed

still mm wins, alot more than he loses.

On more than one occasion? I only know of Trion doing that and that was once to my recollection. I don't think Normal Cain will be able to do that.

actually normal cain did it in the onslaught saga. which was crap writing, but its still within his powerset .

some of you seem to think getting cains helmet off is an easy task.honestly i dont think they could hurt eachother.stalemate

it has been removed several times over his past. mm CAN and will probably get it off. how, not sure, but he will, in which case juggernaut has no way of defending himself.

Originally posted by KillAll
it has been removed several times over his past. mm CAN and will probably get it off. how, not sure, but he will, in which case juggernaut has no way of defending himself. he has to be aware that taking it off will make juggy vulnerable to his telepathy, it's not common knowledge..

- nimrod struck the clasps of the helmet with a chop, it knew how to incapacitate him and knew that even tight beam sonics wouldn't effect him with the helmet on.

- the x-men even from the first appearances of juggernaut had to distract cain and somehow get the helmet off just so xavier could mind blast him. and even that wasn't permanent.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
- the x-men even from the first appearances of juggernaut had to distract cain and somehow get the helmet off just so xavier could mind blast him. and even that wasn't permanent.

That wasn't permanent? Do you think Xavier wanted to keep Cain in stasis permanently? If so, then you haven't understood much about Xavier.

i meant he later crafted a skullcap from the same metal to even prevent that stratagem from succeding again.

With or without the helmet, jugg always loses

How does he lose with the helmet on?

Originally posted by Mindset
How does he lose with the helmet on?
bfr

Juggs will take the battlefield with him

Originally posted by Mindset
Juggs will take the battlefield with him
Let him drift in space. Maybe then that dumb oaf will learn whats 2+2

Say mm gets off the helment and gets into his head and the real Juggy come out. Docter strange could not even stay in his head for to long before the real Juggy hurt him. So the mm could not really win over the Juggernaut by getting into his head. I would for the sake of being a nice guy call it a draw.

Originally posted by KillAll
why does it matter when he did it? juggernaut is a mystical character and we are not Sure what he is capable of.
Because during the wager storyline Juggernaut was using his powers way more efficiently due to outside influence. When he was possessed by the evil spirits trying to attack the Trion he was doing all kinds of crazy stuff.



The only thing that has even tried to breach his forcefield is Spider-man with a truck of gasoline and I think even Spider-man would be able to survive that explosion. That is the only instance of Juggernaut ever have a forcefield like people describe.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
he has to be aware that taking it off will make juggy vulnerable to his telepathy, it's not common knowledge..

- nimrod struck the clasps of the helmet with a chop, it knew how to incapacitate him and knew that even tight beam sonics wouldn't effect him with the helmet on.

- the x-men even from the first appearances of juggernaut had to distract cain and somehow get the helmet off just so xavier could mind blast him. and even that wasn't permanent.
Hulk popped his helmet off by spinning him over his head like lasso by his eye holes. I don't think it would be that hard for Manhunter to accidentally remove the helmet. Not only is the face a common place of attack but it's the most armored part of his body. It almost begs to be targeted.

Originally posted by The Red Light
Say mm gets off the helment and gets into his head and the real Juggy come out. Docter strange could not even stay in his head for to long before the real Juggy hurt him. So the mm could not really win over the Juggernaut by getting into his head. I would for the sake of being a nice guy call it a draw.
MM has strong telepathy. Jugg can't hurt him!! In fact he can't hit him.

Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
Hulk popped his helmet off by spinning him over his head like lasso by his eye holes. I don't think it would be that hard for Manhunter to accidentally remove the helmet. Not only is the face a common place of attack but it's the most armored part of his body. It almost begs to be targeted. so then j'onn would have to "accidentally" replicate that feat then.

and he would have to attempt another mind attack after taking the helmet off, but he should be a bit discouraged after failing before hand.

but if juggernaut opens his big mouth about the helmet trick, j'onn wins no matter what.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
so then j'onn would have to "accidentally" replicate that feat then.

and he would have to attempt another mind attack after taking the helmet off, but he should be a bit discouraged after failing before hand.

but if juggernaut opens his big mouth about the helmet trick, j'onn wins no matter what.
I don't think it is that far fetched to assume Manhunter would accidentally exert a high amount of force on Juggernaut's head. Or that he would notice an open mind suddenly appearing once the helmet is off when previously there was nothing.

but other than the hulk thing, all the other instances of his helmet being removed were deliberate attacks on the clasps that secure it since they knew that was the only barrier to his mind.

Cain's helmet should fall under 'KMC basic knowledge'.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
but other than the hulk thing, all the other instances of his helmet being removed were deliberate attacks on the clasps that secure it since they knew that was the only barrier to his mind.
But that proves the helmet can be removed by other means.

if he knows to attack it's not so obvious seem, then yes.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
if he knows to attack it's not so obvious seem, then yes.
Well, the face is a common place to strike. Also, it's literally the only part of Juggernaut's body that looks armored. The rest looks like a jumpsuit. I think if any thing he would think Juggernaut's head is his physically weak point, which has happened before. I'm not saying he'll get the helmet off in an effort to remove his psionic defenses but I am saying the helmet will come off.

The only chance for Cain is if J'onn tries to slug it out. That won't happen for long. J'onn 10/10.

Cain wears a cowl of the same material under his helmet. So he gets in close enough to remove his helmet, then he could get grabbed and have his head ripped off. or just have him knocked unconscious. If the helmet and cowl get taken off MM wins it.

Dude. MM shapeshifts into a fly, goes intangible, flies through an eyehole and mind****s Cain until he loves it.

With his force field up how could MM touch him? If MM is able to use all of his abilities then so should the Juggernaut. If the Juggernaut has his forcefield up then there is nothing MM could do to beat him.

Cain doesn't usually have his forcefield raised.

He doesn't need to touch him, he's a shapeshifter and intangible with mind powers for crying out loud.

Juggernaut 8/10 Cain will bide his time. He will just keep walking destroying stuff causing MM to try to save civillians and fight the Naught. Juggernaut has his forecefield up it's a whole nother thing.

He does have invulnerability and he also has a force field. When his force field is up it glows. I have seen him use it against Thor and Spiderman was repelled by it when he tried to attack him from behind. He also used it in UXM 12 or 13. He used his FF to stop her telekinetic attack basically repelling it and walking up it. I think he also used it against Dazzler.

He's a shapeshifter, but he can't turn into flys and stuff as far as I know.

And nothing so far has been able to get through his force field.

And if he gets the helmet off, he still has the skull cap that does the same thing.

If Juggernaut's going to use his one shot force fields we might as well have Manhunter be Fernus the Burning too. Juggernaut's going to have to have his ability to shrink people and shoot magic fireballs, both of which he also did once, to win that fight.

People are overrating Juggernaut's force fields. In the Thor guest appearance Juggernaut was depicted as getting the bulk of his durability from his force field. This is false, as most people know. Then when he guest starred in Spider-man he was back to normal but had an extra force field but it's highest feat of durability was surviving web shots and an exploding gas truck.

Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
If Juggernaut's going to use his one shot force fields we might as well have Manhunter be Fernus the Burning too. Juggernaut's going to have to have his ability to shrink people and shoot magic fireballs, both of which he also did once, to win that fight.

People are overrating Juggernaut's force fields. In the Thor guest appearance Juggernaut was depicted as getting the bulk of his durability from his force field. This is false, as most people know. Then when he guest starred in Spider-man he was back to normal but had an extra force field but it's highest feat of durability was surviving web shots and an exploding gas truck.

I pretty much agree with what you are saying but I believe used his FF against spidey because he simply didn't want to be touched or covered in webs. Cain actually can't use the magic abilities anymore because he gave up that knowledge to escape IIRC.

Would eb a good fight, but Mm wins!