Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Which duo wins?

Daken and X-23 and likley quite solidly.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Daken and X-23 and likley quite solidly. team 2 is more skilled and experienced though

Originally posted by Starscream M
team 2 is more skilled and experienced though
No there not. Daken been alive since during if not before the cold war. This would make him older then either Elektra or Daredevil meaning he more experienced. There also nothing to suggest either of them are superior in skill to him. X-23 has been honed to be a killer, trained since she was but a little girl. She is very skilled in combat.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
No there not. Daken been alive since during if not before the cold war. Which would make him older then either elektra or dd meaning he more experienced. There also nothing to suggest either of them are superior in skill to him self. X-23 has been honed to be a killer, trained since she was but a little girl. She extremely skilled. Elektra is superior to daken or x-23 though, its debatable where DD stands.

Originally posted by Starscream M
Elektra is superior to daken or x-23 though, its debatable where DD stands.
Superior in what way?

I reckon team 1 for the (slim?) majority. Tough call. I would say their superhuman attributes give them the edge.

There is also the fact both were trained since they were children if not mistaken to be ruthless killing machines.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
There is also the fact both were trained since they were children if not mistaken to be ruthless killing machines.

Yeah but training and experience are two very different things. Especially for Laura here. She was trained to take out regular soldier or assassinate defenceless targets, not come up against Superheroes like DD. So I'd put her at the bottom of the experience ladder out of the four.
And DD and Elektra are adept at holding their own against foes on or above Daken's level of skill and experience.

Personally I think this fight boils down to Team 1 winning due to their mutant abilities. Gonna be ****ing hard to put down two mutants with healing factors.

All just my opinion though.

Originally posted by The Pict
Yeah but training and experience are two very different things. Especially for Laura here. She was trained to take out regular soldier or assassinate defenceless targets, not come up against Superheroes like DD. So I'd put her at the bottom of the experience ladder out of the four.

She was designed to kill wolverine and other superhuman targets if not mistaken.......

Not sure were you got the only regular soldiers.


Originally posted by The Pict
DD and Elektra are adept at holding their own against foes on or above Daken's level of skill and experience.

Personally I think this fight boils down to Team 1 winning due to their mutant abilities. Gonna be ****ing hard to put down two mutants with healing factors.

All just my opinion though.
Plus Daken can screw with there perception badly.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
She was designed to kill wolverine and other superhuman targets if not mistaken.......

Not sure were you got the only regular soldiers.


.

You're wrong. She was designed to make money. That's why she was taking out political candidates, mob bosses, AIM soldiers. She was an Assassin for hire. She wasn't cloned for taking out Wolverine or other Superhumans. It was all about money, that's why Rice was going to mass produce the clones before they were all destroyed in the explosion at the facility X-23 was raised in.

Edit: I think you're thinking of early on in the series when there are alot of supervillains displayed on monitors in the facility. But those were bidders on X-23's services rather than her targets.

I agree with almost anything Battlehammer said.

Team one ftw

Team one for most.

Healing factorz!!!!

Originally posted by Warrior18
Team one for most.

Healing factorz!!!!

Originally posted by The Pict
You're wrong. She was designed to make money. That's why she was taking out political candidates, mob bosses, AIM soldiers. She was an Assassin for hire. She wasn't cloned for taking out Wolverine or other Superhumans. It was all about money, that's why Rice was going to mass produce the clones before they were all destroyed in the explosion at the facility X-23 was raised in.

Edit: I think you're thinking of early on in the series when there are alot of supervillains displayed on monitors in the facility. But those were bidders on X-23's services rather than her targets.

No I am pretty positive that she was trained to kill him. She even attacks him instinctivly when they first meet, due to the training. She also posses no scent, so she has the ability to actaully get the drop on him

Uncanny X-men issue 451 directly states she was train specifically to battle weapon x

Ok, Team 1 7/10.

Just because i believe in DD being able to 3-shot Daken. That is, if he isn't killed earlier.

Stupid thread.

Team 1 destroys Elektra and Daredevil.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze


Team 1 destroys Elektra and Daredevil.

6/10 Team 2 wins , you don't have to kill to win.

Elektra doesn't have to kill anyone from Team 1 to win. She has disable Wolverine before by placing her dagger between his joints disabling movement. Same can be said for Wolverine off springs.

Daredevil speed and senses are superior to Team 1 and would avoid fatal injuries. Just like I stated for Elecktra, DD doesn't have to kill to win, disabling by KO or tying them down is enough.

Team One

DD is faster than Daken.....

Hey may be close to Daken's speed, but then there's that pheromone manipulation which makes him appear superfast.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Uncanny X-men issue 451 directly states she was train specifically to battle weapon x

She has 2 solo series which specify she wasn't.

Well, I would take she was over she wasn't, depending on the order they were released.

team one i guess, daken carries the weight of the fight though.

Originally posted by The Pict
She has 2 solo series which specify she wasn't.
Real proof it, I like to see evidence of them specifically stating that she was not trained to battle Weapon X

Originally posted by KingD19
Well, I would take she was over she wasn't, depending on the order they were released.
Or she was trained for both, but Pact does not wish to acknowledge this fact for some reason.

"pact" lol

"pact" full of lies?

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Or she was trained for both, but Pact does not wish to acknowledge this fact for some reason.

I think 2 entire solo series are more evidence than one comment made by Rachel Grey in a single panel.

And FYI that altercation between X-23 and Wolverine in Uncanny X-Men was set up between the two so she could be introduced to the X-Men. That's why she attacked Wolverine on sight. She had already met Wolverine before.

You're the one who doesn't wish to acknowledge the facts, Battlehammer.

Originally posted by The Pict
I think 2 entire solo series are more evidence than one comment made by Rachel Grey in a single panel.

And FYI that altercation between X-23 and Wolverine in Uncanny X-Men was set up between the two so she could be introduced to the X-Men. That's why she attacked Wolverine on sight. She had already met Wolverine before.

You're the one who doesn't wish to acknowledge the facts, Battlehammer.
But does either of thoses solo runs dirrectly state she was not trained to battle weapon x? Not like she could not be used for more then on purpos.

she met Logan before? it what issue? Logan had no knowldge of her, from what I saw


what have I not acknowledged? She could have been trained to fight him, as well as be used for other things. The fact that she does not possess a scent strength this, which Logan comments on.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
But does either of thoses solo runs dirrectly state she was not trained to battle weapon x? Not like she could not be used for more then on purpos.

she met Logan before? it what issue? Logan had no knowldge of her, from what I saw


what have I not acknowledged? She could have been trained to fight him, as well as be used for other things. The fact that she does not possess a scent strength this, which Logan comments on.

Sorry but you're just making things up now. Could have been trained to fight him?Because it wasn't stated she wasn't trained to fight Wolverine means she might have been?
That's nonsense and you know it. She wasn't trained to fight Wolverine. End of story. That's what the comics say,so stop arguing the point, you don't have the evidence on your side.

She met him multiple times,evidently. The earliest being in Target X, where Wolverine smells her by the way.

Originally posted by The Pict
Sorry but you're just making things up now.
what did I make up? I really dont like being call a lair.

Originally posted by The Pict
Could have been trained to fight him?Because it wasn't stated she wasn't trained to fight Wolverine means she might have been?

No she was stated to been trained to battle weapon x.

She has not been stated not have been trained to fight him to my knowledge,

Originally posted by The Pict
That's nonsense and you know it. She wasn't trained to fight Wolverine. End of story. That's what the comics say,so stop arguing the point, you don't have the evidence on your side.
/B]
What are you babbling about. You act like you have shown evidence and I ignored it. I the one who posted comic in which it states she was trained to battle weapon x. You have yet to present any evidence. You are getting far to annoyed and acting as if I am being rediculous, when you have shown any evidence, and the evidence I post you ignored. If you have evidence to present I am more then willing to look at it, but enough with the attituted. You have yet present a single bit of evidence there no reason for you to be acting the way you are.




Originally posted by The Pict
She met him multiple times,evidently. The earliest being in Target X, where Wolverine smells her by the way.

what issue?

wierd becuases he stated on pannel that he could not lock on to her scent which would allow his the ability to maybe sneak up on him.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
what did I make up? I really dont like being call a lair.

You keep going on about her being trained to fight weapon x, and it's simply not true. There's no evidence to suggest it. So let it go.


Originally posted by Battlehammer
No she was stated to been trained to battle weapon x.

By Rachel Grey in a single panel, whereas it was never mentioned again even though X-23 has not one but two solo runs. She was trained to be an assassin for hire. That's all. It's in Innocence Lost.


Originally posted by Battlehammer

She has not been stated not have been trained to fight him to my knowledge,

Has it been stated she can't fly? Maybe she can. Has it been stated she can't grow to a 100 feet tall? Maybe she can. Has it been stated X-23 can't shoot laser beams out her eyes? Maybe she can.
Get the picture? You can't say she might have been trained to fight weapon x just because it hasn't been stated she wasn't. That's making things up again. You see her getting trained in the comics, never to fight against Wolverine though.



Originally posted by Battlehammer
What are you babbling about. You act like you have shown evidence and I ignored it. I the one who posted comic in which it states she was trained to battle weapon x. You have yet to present any evidence. You are getting far to annoyed and acting as if I am being rediculous, when you have shown any evidence, and the evidence I post you ignored. If you have evidence to present I am more then willing to look at it, but enough with the attituted. You have present a single bit of evidence there no reason for you to be acting the way you are.

I'm not getting annoyed, I think it's kinda funny you are obsessed with the fact Laura was trained to fight Weapon X, which is wrong.

What evidence? You said Uncanny X-Men 451 and that was it. I've had the issue since it came out and that had since been retconned into a pre-arranged meeting between Wolverine and X-23 since they met in Target X which takes place before that issue of Uncanny X-Men as it deals with her just after she escapes from the facility.


Originally posted by Battlehammer

what issue?

wierd becuases he stated on pannel that he could not lock on to her scent which would allow his the ability to maybe sneak up on him.

The last or second last issue of Target X. She was watching Wolverine through a window of the X-Mansion until the wind shifts and gives away her scent to Wolverine.

Also just to point out that Craig Kyle wrote Target X and he was the one who created X-23 so I'm gonna go with the fact that she has a scent.

Originally posted by The Pict
You keep going on about her being trained to fight weapon x, and it's simply not true. There's no evidence to suggest it. So let it go.




By Rachel Grey in a single panel, whereas it was never mentioned again even though X-23 has not one but two solo runs. She was trained to be an assassin for hire. That's all. It's in Innocence Lost.




Has it been stated she can't fly? Maybe she can. Has it been stated she can't grow to a 100 feet tall? Maybe she can. Has it been stated X-23 can't shoot laser beams out her eyes? Maybe she can.
Get the picture? You can't say she might have been trained to fight weapon x just because it hasn't been stated she wasn't. That's making things up again. You see her getting trained in the comics, never to fight against Wolverine though.





I'm not getting annoyed, I think it's kinda funny you are obsessed with the fact Laura was trained to fight Weapon X, which is wrong.

What evidence? You said Uncanny X-Men 451 and that was it. I've had the issue since it came out and that had since been retconned into a pre-arranged meeting between Wolverine and X-23 since they met in Target X which takes place before that issue of Uncanny X-Men as it deals with her just after she escapes from the facility.




The last or second last issue of Target X. She was watching Wolverine through a window of the X-Mansion until the wind shifts and gives away her scent to Wolverine.

Also just to point out that Craig Kyle wrote Target X and he was the one who created X-23 so I'm gonna go with the fact that she has a scent.
All I was asking was for evidence. That was it. I dont give flying **** if she trained to fight wolverine or not. I was basing my opinion of her off what I had seen on pannel, you dont gotta be such a prick. This could have been solved faster if you actaully posted evidence in the first place when i asked instead of your cock sure your wrong attitude. Of course I did not think I was wrong, because I was basing it off on pannel evdience and I did not think a character would be reconnt so quickly so many times.

I dont read her solo. All I had seen of her was is x-men and x-force.

and amost ever clone type character of Logan has been trained to kill him, so whe I saw it in Uncanny x-men I simply excepted it, since that tends to be the norm for clone like characters of his.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Originally posted by The Pict
You keep going on about her being trained to fight weapon x, and it's simply not true. There's no evidence to suggest it. So let it go.




By Rachel Grey in a single panel, whereas it was never mentioned again even though X-23 has not one but two solo runs. She was trained to be an assassin for hire. That's all. It's in Innocence Lost.




Has it been stated she can't fly? Maybe she can. Has it been stated she can't grow to a 100 feet tall? Maybe she can. Has it been stated X-23 can't shoot laser beams out her eyes? Maybe she can.
Get the picture? You can't say she might have been trained to fight weapon x just because it hasn't been stated she wasn't. That's making things up again. You see her getting trained in the comics, never to fight against Wolverine though.





I'm not getting annoyed, I think it's kinda funny you are obsessed with the fact Laura was trained to fight Weapon X, which is wrong.

What evidence? You said Uncanny X-Men 451 and that was it. I've had the issue since it came out and that had since been retconned into a pre-arranged meeting between Wolverine and X-23 since they met in Target X which takes place before that issue of Uncanny X-Men as it deals with her just after she escapes from the facility.




The last or second last issue of Target X. She was watching Wolverine through a window of the X-Mansion until the wind shifts and gives away her scent to Wolverine.

Also just to point out that Craig Kyle wrote Target X and he was the one who created X-23 so I'm gonna go with the fact that she has a scent.
All I was asking was for evidence. That was it. I dont give flying **** if she trained to fight wolverine or not. I was basing my opinion of her off what I had seen on pannel, you dont gotta be such a prick. This could have been solved faster if you actaully posted evidence in the first place when i asked instead of your cock sure your wrong attitude. Of course I did not think I was wrong, because I was basing it off on pannel evdience and I did not think a character would be reconnt so quickly so many times.

I dont read her solo. All I had seen of her was is x-men and x-force

I gave you evidence, well as much as you did. I told you throughout here solo runs in was never stated she trained to fight Wolverine. I also based this argument of what I'd seen on panel, alot of panels in fact which all counteract the one single panel in Uncanny X-Men.
You say I have an attitude then call me a prick? Please don't resort to name calling.
It could have been solved faster if you just admitted you didn't have all the evidence. Okay you haven't read here solo runs and that's fair enough but I've continuously been telling you what they were about and what she was trained to do. Of course I was "cock sure" I was repeating what was in the comic. I dunno why you're getting all bent out of shape about it.

edit

just ignor my last post I havent slept in roughly 3 days, been real stressed out and took it out on you my bad.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
just ignor my last post I havent slept in roughly 3 days, been real stressed out and took it out on you my bad.

Okay fair enough.

Get some sleep! durfist

Can't I have to finish a project then go to school untill 930 at night lol

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Can't I have to finish a project then go to school untill 930 at night lol

That's too bad, mate. What's your project on?

^ Sleep deprivation.

biscuits

Suffering from that right now, too.

Originally posted by The Pict
That's too bad, mate. What's your project on?
30 page hisotry paper, match project on a bunch of random ship and then to top it off I I have a presentation lol

Originally posted by Starscream M
team 2 is more skilled and experienced though Daken is over 60 years old, so no - Team claw has the experience. X-23 may have less experience than Elektra or DD, but I dare say that comparitively fighting and training has taken up a larger part of her life than theirs. Fighting/killing is more ingrained in her and more natural than it is for Team ninja.

As neither Daken or X-23 has fought either no reliable argument can be made for who is more skilled. Daken likely has more training (thus has more skilleds) than Team ninja so skill goes to team claw.
Originally posted by Starscream M
Elektra is superior to daken or x-23 though, Proof? They've never fought, so how would you come to such a conclusion. Both are skilled enough to be comparable to Wolverine, who is vastly superior to Elektra or DD in every possible way.
Originally posted by The Pict
I reckon team 1 for the (slim?) majority. Tough call. I would say their superhuman attributes give them the edge. I dont see how this would be anything other than a walk in the park for Team Claw. The superhuman factor makes the outcome blatantly obvious.
Originally posted by The Pict
Yeah but training and experience are two very different things. Especially for Laura here. She was trained to take out regular soldier or assassinate defenceless targets, not come up against Superheroes like DD.I'm sure X was only trained to combat defenseless targets

And the fact is DD and Elektra are 2 essentially normal combatants. Team Claw? Not exactly.
Originally posted by The Pict
And DD and Elektra are adept at holding their own against foes on or above Daken's level of skill and experience.??? Such as? Daken can hold his own against arguably the most skilled and experienced fighter in the Marvel U.
Originally posted by vansonbee
6/10 Team 2 wins , you don't have to kill to win.Yeah you have to repeatedly kill them each like 6 times to get them to stay down for longer than 5 seconds.
Originally posted by vansonbee
Elektra doesn't have to kill anyone from Team 1 to win. She has disable Wolverine before by placing her dagger between his joints disabling movement.Wolverine was fighting brainwashing at the time and Elektra sneak attacked him while he was fighting other people. Not applicable.
Originally posted by vansonbee
Daredevil speed and senses are superior to Team 1 and would avoid fatal injuries.DD has the top speed of....... a human, therefor both X-23 and Daken with speed ENHANCED as a byproduct of their mutant abilities are faster than DD. As far as senses go, they are likely equal or close to it. Wolverine's senses are equivalent to DD's with DD having slightly better hearing and Wolverine having a slightly better sense of smell. Daken's sensory disruption abilities also spell DOOM for DD.




As for X-23 being trained to fight Wolverine, I have seen that mentioned somewhere. Considering that she was given many of the same tests as Logan (BEAR) I'd say it's pretty obvious it's a distinct possibility. Wasn't she also seen training to fight Wolverine in a simulator?

No, he can't.
Wolverine never attacked him, nor went all out on him.

Daredevil and Electra, from the other hand, DID hold his own against Logan.

Originally posted by Survivor19
No, he can't.
Wolverine never attacked him, nor went all out on him.

Daredevil and Electra, from the other hand, DID hold his own against Logan.
Logan never went all out on either of them as well, Hell arguably he would have used more lethal force against his sun becuases he knows he can take it.



DD got put in a full nelson in 5 pannels in one fight and in the other he held his own and barly survived vs a mind control Logan who was fighting it.


Elektra attack Logan once he was covered with 20 soldier on him.

Logan did fight Daken before. Niether one of people you brought up held there own better then taken or vs a more capable wolverine like your impling

I suggest we'll just flip through their encounters.

I'll begin from one from Original Sin. Logan was trying to not to fight at all, and only recieve e beating. No feat for Daken.

Originally posted by Survivor19
I suggest we'll just flip through their encounters.

I'll begin from one from Original Sin. Logan was trying to not to fight at all, and only recieve e beating. No feat for Daken.

In the first arc Daken was in he and Logan fought and he actaully got the better of Logan.

still trying to ponder were you came to the conclusion that DD and Elektra held Logan off and that what they did was more superior to Daken.

I also notice you have yet to comment on what I said about the encounters.

Checked their fight, turns out you ARE right about their first actual fight. Daken did got better of Logan, though his old man wasn't exactly going all out on him.

Hell, there was Wolverine/X-23 "first encounter" (not the one in Uncanny), where she got better of Logan, bleeding him out.

Well, let's say you convinced me that Team 1 showings against Logan are superior to Team 2' ones.

Originally posted by Survivor19
Checked their fight, turns out you ARE right about their first actual fight. Daken did got better of Logan, though his old man wasn't exactly going all out on him.

Hell, there was Wolverine/X-23 "first encounter" (not the one in Uncanny), where she got better of Logan, bleeding him out.

Well, let's say you convinced me that Team 1 showings against Logan are superior to Team 2' ones.
I know.

Logan was letting his self get stabbed over and over again by X-23 I would not put much faith in the fight.

He's the best at what we do - Logan about Daken.

Most people don't understand Daken's pheromone manipualtion power, his greatest weapon.

Elektra has those mind tricks, though. It would be an interesting battle.

daken and x-23 for the win.

Originally posted by riceroost
Daken is over 60 years old, so no - Team claw has the experience. X-23 may have less experience than Elektra or DD, but I dare say that comparitively fighting and training has taken up a larger part of her life than theirs. Fighting/killing is more ingrained in her and more natural than it is for Team ninja.

As neither Daken or X-23 has fought either no reliable argument can be made for who is more skilled. Daken likely has more training (thus has more skilleds) than Team ninja so skill goes to team claw.
Proof? They've never fought, so how would you come to such a conclusion. Both are skilled enough to be comparable to Wolverine, who is vastly superior to Elektra or DD in every possible way.
I dont see how this would be anything other than a walk in the park for Team Claw. The superhuman factor makes the outcome blatantly obvious.
I'm sure X was only trained to combat defenseless targets

And the fact is DD and Elektra are 2 essentially normal combatants. Team Claw? Not exactly.
??? Such as? Daken can hold his own against arguably the most skilled and experienced fighter in the Marvel U.
Yeah you have to repeatedly kill them each like 6 times to get them to stay down for longer than 5 seconds.
Wolverine was fighting brainwashing at the time and Elektra sneak attacked him while he was fighting other people. Not applicable.
DD has the top speed of....... a human, therefor both X-23 and Daken with speed ENHANCED as a byproduct of their mutant abilities are faster than DD. As far as senses go, they are likely equal or close to it. Wolverine's senses are equivalent to DD's with DD having slightly better hearing and Wolverine having a slightly better sense of smell. Daken's sensory disruption abilities also spell DOOM for DD.




As for X-23 being trained to fight Wolverine, I have seen that mentioned somewhere. Considering that she was given many of the same tests as Logan (BEAR) I'd say it's pretty obvious it's a distinct possibility. Wasn't she also seen training to fight Wolverine in a simulator?

You realise I am actually in favourof team 1 winning? I was just pointing out that DD and Elektra have the skill and experience to hold their own for a bit.

Isn't Daken around sixty years old? He should have more exp.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Isn't Daken around sixty years old? He should have more exp. just because he's old?

also, quality of experience is important to consider as well

Well, from the time he was born(or more importantly, cut from his mothers stomach), Romulus was training him, and he was also extensively trained Cyber. I think his training is of an extremely high quality, don't you? Cyber also said Daken was his best student, and if it weren't for his adamantium skin, Daken could have killed him.

Originally posted by Starscream M
just because he's old?

also, quality of experience is important to consider as well

No, not just because he'd old. He's been trained by Romulus since he were a kid.

Originally posted by KingD19
Well, from the time he was born(or more importantly, cut from his mothers stomach), Romulus was training him, and he was also extensively trained Cyber. I think his training is of an extremely high quality, don't you? Cyber also said Daken was his best student, and if it weren't for his adamantium skin, Daken could have killed him.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
He's been trained by Romulus since he were a kid. that still doesn't tell us what experience he has

he could've been trained by going up against hand ninjas all day...which isnt that great experience

good experience is going up against top tiers

Almost 60 years of non stop training under Romulus and Cyber is the equivalent of giving a man a chaingun, and setting him loose on a den of pirates with nothing but plastic swords.

And how good is DD's and Elektra's training?

Originally posted by KingD19


And how good is DD's and Elektra's training? they've both gone up against top tiers far longer than Daken has

Originally posted by Starscream M
that still doesn't tell us what experience he has

he could've been trained by going up against hand ninjas all day...which isnt that great experience

good experience is going up against top tiers

I see your point. Mighty Stiltman has fought Daredevil - now that's an experience!

Who needs assassination&interrogation techniques, martial arts, acrobatics, marksman training, escapology, etc.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
I see your point. Mighty Stiltman has fought Daredevil - now that's an experience!

Who needs assassination&interrogation techniques, martial arts, acrobatics, marksman training, escapology, etc. if stiltman beat DD, that would be good experience...unfortunately, losing is not

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW


Who needs assassination&interrogation techniques, martial arts, acrobatics, marksman training, escapology, etc. *yawn* this is basic repertoire of pretty much any street leveler...nothing special

Originally posted by Starscream M
if stiltman beat DD, that would be good experience...unfortunately, losing is not

You're lucky I don't have the scans right now...

Well, considering even a glancing blow from either Daken or 23 is lethal for Elektra and DD is what gives team claw the win.

And who says losing is not a good experience?

I've never really seen experience come down as a critical point between characters like these. It's a pretty petty argument.

Originally posted by KingD19
Well, considering even a glancing blow from either Daken or 23 is lethal for Elektra and DD is what gives team claw the win.

And who says losing is not a good experience? well depends on how you lose

if its a close fight and you lose....that would be good exp as well

but if you get straight up pwned, thats prob not so good

also, how the hell is a glancing blow lethal for Elektra and DD

and havent Elektra and DD both fared relatively well against Logan?

Originally posted by KingD19
Well, considering even a glancing blow from either Daken or 23 is lethal for Elektra and DD is what gives team claw the win.

Elektra can control her bleeding to a degree, so one glancing shot wouldn't be enough IMO.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
I've never really seen experience come down as a critical point between characters like these. It's a pretty petty argument. experience is huge in spiderman vs cap fights

Originally posted by Starscream M
experience is huge in spiderman vs cap fights Originally posted by Original Smurph
characters like these

Originally posted by Original Smurph
weren't you referring to street levelers? I thought spiderman vs cap was an apt refutation of your point.

Well, a glancing slice with claws as long as those could be potentially lethal.

And when Daken and Laura fight, they want to kill you.

And Elektra doesn't?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Elektra can control her bleeding to a degree


shock

Originally posted by KingD19
Well, a glancing slice with claws as long as those could be potentially lethal.
well, when you're up against skilled fighters like elektra and DD, its gonna be hard to even land a hit...just ask logan

also, ppl are overlooking the fact that Elektra and DD prob make a better team and you know DD is bringing his A+ game for elektra

Originally posted by Warrior18
shock

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/3672/handbookdd18.th.jpg

Originally posted by Starscream M
just ask logan

DD dodged just one swipe from Logan...

The thing is, Elektra can't kill them. ^_^

Plus, dude is overlooking Daken's pheromones. He seems to teleport, and he is invisble to your sense, so even DD wouldn't be able to predict his attacks.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/3672/handbookdd18.th.jpg

*wipes feverishly sweaty brow* Ok cool. Thought you meant something else..............

Originally posted by Warrior18
*wipes feverishly sweaty brow* Ok cool. Thought you meant something else..............

Originally posted by KingD19
The thing is, Elektra can't kill them. ^_^

Plus, dude is overlooking Daken's pheromones. He seems to teleport, and he is invisble to your sense, so even DD wouldn't be able to predict his attacks. elektra's telepathy can help her counteract his tricks

and DD can rely on his other senses to predict where Daken is

Originally posted by KingD19
The thing is, Elektra can't kill them. ^_^

Plus, dude is overlooking Daken's pheromones. He seems to teleport, and he is invisble to your sense, so even DD wouldn't be able to predict his attacks.

She can still KO/incapacitate them.

He can make someone laugh without a reason, cause a panic attack or a false sense of security and I believe he can do more.

Originally posted by Starscream M
and DD can rely on his other senses to predict where Daken is

Like Logan did? Characters with enhanced senses aren't immune to pheromones. IMO he would be fooled like everyone else.

When I say he blocks your senses, I mean all of them. And he can do a whole lot more.

And a ko could work.

Originally posted by Starscream M
weren't you referring to street levelers? I thought spiderman vs cap was an apt refutation of your point. I actually meant talented MA's.

Daken being as old as he is does give him experience in combat, however using that experience in fights vs high tier opponents is another thing. That alone doesnt put him over to beat DD nor Elektra imo. Same of X23. True they have no problem killing, but neither does Elektra and Matt has dealt with highly dangerous opponents before.

As far as Dakens Phermones, DD may possibly be immune to it. It wouldnt surprise me at all if he were.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Daken being as old as he is does give him experience in combat, however using that experience in fights vs high tier opponents is another thing. That alone doesnt put him over to beat DD nor Elektra imo. Same of X23. True they have no problem killing, but neither does Elektra and Matt has dealt with highly dangerous opponents before.

As far as Dakens Phermones, DD may possibly be immune to it. It wouldnt surprise me at all if he were.

Yeah. Daredevil is blind, so pheremones shouldn't logically affect him.

Right?

Right?

RIGHT???!!!!

*explodes*

Pheremones effect your nose more than anything. As good as DD's nose is, they will affect him.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Yeah. Daredevil is blind, so pheremones shouldn't logically affect him.

Right?

Right?

RIGHT???!!!!

*explodes*

Doesnt work like that. Its nasally or orally inhaled.

Originally posted by KingD19
Pheremones effect your nose more than anything. As good as DD's nose is, they will affect him.

Possibly not. He was immune to Scarecrows fear gas. After being dosed with the new mr. fears new phermone fear gas, DD was in such a rage, it had no effect on him whatsoever. Mr. Fears new gas works similar to Dakens.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Doesnt work like that. Its nasally or orally inhaled.

Irony.....

I'm pretty sure Elektra can take down 23 on her own. However, neither her or Daredevil have anything to use against Daken's pheromones. He's got a level of telepathic resistance and I don't see Elektra getting anywhere with her low level mind scrambling. Daredevil's natural "handicap" wont prevent Daken from altering his emotional state, BTW.

Originally posted by Konton
I'm pretty sure Elektra can take down 23 on her own. However, neither her or Daredevil have anything to use against Daken's pheromones. He's got a level of telepathic resistance and I don't see Elektra getting anywhere with her low level mind scrambling. Daredevil's natural "handicap" wont prevent Daken from altering his emotional state, BTW.

Originally posted by jrodslam
As far as Dakens Phermones, DD may possibly be immune to it. It wouldnt surprise me at all if he were.

Originally posted by jrodslam
He was immune to Scarecrows fear gas. After being dosed with the new mr. fears new phermone fear gas, DD was in such a rage, it had no effect on him whatsoever. Mr. Fears new gas works similar to Dakens.

He wont be immune to it. Logan immune to pritty much any type of gas there is. He was still effected, to think DD not is just wrong

Originally posted by Battlehammer
He wont be immune to it. Logan immune to pritty much any type of gas there is. He was still effected, to think DD not is just wrong

Why not? It just isnt some regular gas. Its a phermone just like Dakens.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Why not? It just isnt some regular gas. Its a phermone just like Dakens.

what are you basing this off of? scare crow incident which isent even cannon?


Logan has shown not to be effected by vastly more things then DD and he was effect as was DP why should DD some one be immune? There no reason for it. unless your trying to say DD has some secret power of immunity.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
what are you basing this off of? scare crow incident which isent even cannon?


Logan has shown not to be effected by vastly more things then DD and he was effect as was DP why should DD some one be immune? There no reason for it. unless your trying to say DD has some secret power of immunity.

Im basing it off the fact that DD has faced ppl with phermones gases similar to daken. Scarecrows gas works just like dakens and mr fears for the fact that its a causes his victims to hallucinate and believe that their phobias are real. Why would you say its not cannon? Scarecrow and mr fear(mainly the older ones) are just about the same when it came to the fear gas. Thats just an example.

Logan has been "vastly" uneffected to more things that DD when it comes to things like hallucinogens and phermones? What types of hallucinogens and phermones have Wolvie resisted that DD couldnt? You make your statement based off what? Mr Fears phermones work exactly like dakens and DD ended up completely resisting it when he was mad. According to you if Wolvie and DP cant resist, DD cant? Maybe DD has more control over his mind and thoughts than the other two. Who knows. But to say DD cant resist it cause Wolvie and DP couldnt, is ridiculous imo.

Originally posted by Warrior18
*wipes feverishly sweaty brow* Ok cool. Thought you meant something else..............

Gas and pheremones are two different things. Gas is usually just inhaled, or through the skin. If you're around pheremones, you're effected, they touch you, your nose, your eyes, they travel straight to your brain, regardless. Comparing pheremones to gas is like comparing a bb gun to an M-16

Originally posted by KingD19
Gas and pheremones are two different things. Gas is usually just inhaled, or through the skin. If you're around pheremones, you're effected, they touch you, your nose, your eyes, they travel straight to your brain, regardless. Comparing pheremones to gas is like comparing a bb gun to an M-16

Question, how does phermones travel to the brain? Yes, gases and phermones are two differnt things, however both gases and phermones are very comparable in the way they work. Both give off a odor type effect. Also, like ive said, Mr. Fears gas is phermone based chemical. It "touches" his victims as well.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Question, how does phermones travel to the brain? Yes, gases and phermones are two differnt things, however both gases and phermones are very comparable in the way they work. Both give off a odor type effect. Also, like ive said, Mr. Fears gas is phermone based chemical. It "touches" his victims as well.

But the pheromone's effectiveness is all speculation at this point. So the win is pretty inconclusive.

Pheromones worked on Cyber, who had some psionic abilities.

Elektra

http://g.imagehost.org/t/0434/DRElektra03-004.jpg http://g.imagehost.org/t/0259/DRElektra03-005.jpg http://g.imagehost.org/t/0657/DRElektra03-006.jpg http://g.imagehost.org/t/0066/DRElektra03-014.jpg

Originally posted by Konton
But the pheromone's effectiveness is all speculation at this point. So the win is pretty inconclusive.

Whos? Elaborate.