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The hero of Final Fantasy 7 against the hero of Warcraft 3.

Medivh would turn Cloud into a 100-year old man and be on his merry way.

No cuz you see Cloud can react to bullets!

Originally posted by Burning thought
No cuz you see Cloud can react to bullets!

Advent Children?

tink so

So spite?

Definaltey, I mean how can you beat a guy that can react to bullets Medihvs sorcery means nothing to such power.

Ah, haven't been on the forum for quite some time, so my sarcasm-o-meter was a little rusty, but as soon as it got warmed up, it had a red alert.

Seriously, Medivh deserves a better challenge than Cloud. Sephiroth perhaps?

Can Medivh take a slash from the much faster Cloud?

He can't, that's why I thought it an even matchup. Either one would kill the other in a single hit. It all comes down to if speed or farsight is the better ally in a battle. We're of course not including the feat where Medivh prove capable of reviving himself.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
Can Medivh take a slash from the much faster Cloud?

He can't. He has futuresight though.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
He can't. He has futuresight though. And that means what if Cloud is too fast for him to react to?

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
And that means what if Cloud is too fast for him to react to?

Unless he has speed that surpass that in AC, he's fast but not too fast.

He is faster than bullets, was actually faster than them while weakened.

Hell even Zack, who is just a weaker Cloud(or rather, Cloud is a stronger Zack) was faster than bullets.

What shows Cloud as faster than a bullet?

Originally posted by Burning thought
What shows Cloud as faster than a bullet? Able to effortlessly dodge and deflect bullets.

Although he could be a quarter that fast and still be fast enough to win this fight in one attack.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
Able to effortlessly dodge and deflect bullets.

Although he could be a quarter that fast and still be fast enough to win this fight in one attack.

A quick mind with body to par. Does he have movement speed that par with his ability to deflect bullets and strafe out of the path of a bullet? Or has he at any point outran a bullet?

Zack moves out of bullet's lines of fire, and Zack is slower than Cloud.

How much did he move? The classical evade where he barely move, or did he pull an Albert Wesker? Evading a bullet is far from near being as fast as it. A Formula One car drive in over 300 kilometers per hour at some occasions, but by seeing its line of travel and discover it in time, even a can evade it. Same goes with evading a bullet. Sight it in time and you don't have to be even half as fast.

All it prove is that Zack has good reflexes and good speed. Not necessarily the speed of a bullet. If he is shown moving at that speed, I will give up. The speed of a simple handgun bullet is nearly 1000 miles per hour. Equivalent to 1400 feet per second. And that's not even a powerful handgun.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
Able to effortlessly dodge and deflect bullets.

Although he could be a quarter that fast and still be fast enough to win this fight in one attack.

Deflecting and dodging is nothing about actually being able to move as quick as a bullet, like Neo or the Beast out of Kung fu hustle. Obsidian pretty much answered this as well above.

Well the OP does not actually state how far apart they are.

An average block in size apart, cityscape.

Originally posted by Obsidian Fury
How much did he move? The classical evade where he barely move, or did he pull an Albert Wesker? Evading a bullet is far from near being as fast as it. A Formula One car drive in over 300 kilometers per hour at some occasions, but by seeing its line of travel and discover it in time, even a can evade it. Same goes with evading a bullet. Sight it in time and you don't have to be even half as fast.

All it prove is that Zack has good reflexes and good speed. Not necessarily the speed of a bullet. If he is shown moving at that speed, I will give up. The speed of a simple handgun bullet is nearly 1000 miles per hour. Equivalent to 1400 feet per second. And that's not even a powerful handgun. Zack was dodging and rushing men with firearms(an entire army in fact) and killing them with his bare hands, dodging bullets, it took the entire army to take him out, and he killed them too. Hell, if I remember right they needed reinforcements.

Did he seem to be moving 1400 feet per second when he charged them? That's the speed of the bullet by some of the smaller handguns. 700 feet per second might be as slow as it gets, while some handguns push beyond 4000.

They weren't handguns.

They were automatic machine-gun weapons firing from all angles.

Then it depends some on the machinegun and stretches anywhere between 700-5000 feet per second, fairly 600-1200 rounds per minute. If this was human shooters, it still cripple the hitrate. Zack as fast as he may be can move, and it'll take at least a second or two for even an army to react and adapt to his movement, and by the time they have, he could've moved again.
So again, unless he actually appear to move at the speed of any listed speed, he's not as fast as a bullet. If he is, I'm happy to conceed.

If he was fired on from all angles though, shouldnt they have shot their own in crossfire?

And Medivh can't simply give out a thought and melt everything on that block, including Cloud? He happily used the spell on the orcs. He's the guardian that touches every domain but time. Deathwing feared him more than his fellow aspects.

Deathwing did not fear Medivh. He respected him. And Medivh only melted everything in a couple of meters radius. A band of orcs. In theory Medivh could annihilate major cities but he has shown no such moves. A man is only as powerful as his greatest accomplishment I would say.

Beings like Deathwing respect only power.

Originally posted by Obsidian Fury
Then it depends some on the machinegun and stretches anywhere between 700-5000 feet per second, fairly 600-1200 rounds per minute. If this was human shooters, it still cripple the hitrate. Zack as fast as he may be can move, and it'll take at least a second or two for even an army to react and adapt to his movement, and by the time they have, he could've moved again.
So again, unless he actually appear to move at the speed of any listed speed, he's not as fast as a bullet. If he is, I'm happy to conceed.

If he was fired on from all angles though, shouldnt they have shot their own in crossfire?

So what if Medivh wasn't able to react to Clouds movement? I mean he doesn't have super human reflexes or awareness does he? Just incredibly powerful magic! He would be aiming his magic on a place where Cloud wasn't?

Originally posted by K1ll3r
So what if Medivh wasn't able to react to Clouds movement? I mean he doesn't have super human reflexes or awareness does he? Just incredibly powerful magic! He would be aiming his magic on a place where Cloud wasn't?

Since it was impossible to sneak up on Medivh, or spy on him, because he always knew if you were there, I'd say he has pretty good awareness. However, the spell that was brought up is areal and would attack a specific area rather than a target in particular. All that would be required at that point is that Cloud is within its radius in order to die.

Originally posted by Obsidian Fury
Then it depends some on the machinegun and stretches anywhere between 700-5000 feet per second, fairly 600-1200 rounds per minute. If this was human shooters, it still cripple the hitrate. Zack as fast as he may be can move, and it'll take at least a second or two for even an army to react and adapt to his movement, and by the time they have, he could've moved again.
So again, unless he actually appear to move at the speed of any listed speed, he's not as fast as a bullet. If he is, I'm happy to conceed.

If he was fired on from all angles though, shouldnt they have shot their own in crossfire? The Army were Shinra SOLDIERS, who have superhuman reaction-time. They can aim very quickly. And it was literally an army. To say he did not bullet-time is preposterous.

Should have, but its fiction.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Since it was impossible to sneak up on Medivh, or spy on him, because he always knew if you were there, I'd say he has pretty good awareness. However, the spell that was brought up is areal and would attack a specific area rather than a target in particular. All that would be required at that point is that Cloud is within its radius in order to die. Only problem is that Cloud would kill him as he got off the spell, he is too fast for Medivh.

He most certainly is bullet-timer. Does not necessarily move as fast as a bullet still.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
He most certainly is bullet-timer. Does not necessarily move as fast as a bullet still. Considering he was out-maneuvering many bullets with ease from an army from multiple directions, I would say you would have to be pretty close.

Not even a fourth the speed for as long as you hold the capability to see the bullets coming.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Not even a fourth the speed for as long as you hold the capability to see the bullets coming. Oh? So someone with only a fourth of bullet-speed can allow you to dodge hundreds of bullets flying at you from multiple directions at once?

Think about that statement for a minute.

Five hundred bullets does not go any faster than one bullet does. For as long as you have perception on your side, agility and above decent speed you can make it out. All there would be to it is timing. Something I'm sure Zack has plenty of. Timing and proper moves.

I'm sure you've seen a movie sometime where the badguy jumps through a high amount of moving larm lasers in an attempt to reach the safe on the other side of the room. Timing and perception.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Five hundred bullets does not go any faster than one bullet does. For as long as you have perception on your side, agility and above decent speed you can make it out. All there would be to it is timing. Something I'm sure Zack has plenty of. Timing and proper moves.

I'm sure you've seen a movie sometime where the badguy jumps through a high amount of moving larm lasers in an attempt to reach the safe on the other side of the room. Timing and perception. No you can't. They are far too fast and numerous to do so. You would need comparable speed to hope to do it.

Difference being the vast difference in speed and amount.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
No you can't. They are far too fast and numerous to do so. You would need comparable speed to hope to do it.

Difference being the vast difference in speed and amount.

Not at all. Here's a swift draft from my side. The blue circle in this case would be the soldiers, the red dot our subject of discussion and the black dots are the bullets. Given that not two soldiers are positioned at the same position, each bullet has its own line of fire. Each position by each soldier would create different lines and leave openings. Every time Zack move and the soldiers follow, new lines are covering the field, but also new openings.

Discipline, perception and timing. Much like how a human being can dodge racing cars on the highway, someone such as Zack can dodge a racing bullet.


The only way NOT out, is if every soldier in the circle opened fire at the EXACT same time. Not even a supersoldier necessarily does that.

Well, it has been fun trolling this thread, but yeah, Medivh wins, even with bullet-speed Medivh should be able to kill Zack.

speaking of which the Kratos vs sora thread is getting alot of lols

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
Well, it has been fun trolling this thread, but yeah, Medivh wins, even with bullet-speed Medivh should be able to kill Zack.



I laughed You've been on his side all along?

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
I laughed You've been on his side all along? It was mostly to spite BT, but when he did not post and you did, I decided to make you my victim instead. 131

Yeah, I don't know alot about Medivh, but the little I do know makes me think he wins.

Having one of the most powerful beings on the planet fear you is not bad merits

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Not at all. Here's a swift draft from my side. The blue circle in this case would be the soldiers, the red dot our subject of discussion and the black dots are the bullets. Given that not two soldiers are positioned at the same position, each bullet has its own line of fire. Each position by each soldier would create different lines and leave openings. Every time Zack move and the soldiers follow, new lines are covering the field, but also new openings.

Discipline, perception and timing. Much like how a human being can dodge racing cars on the highway, someone such as Zack can dodge a racing bullet.


The only way NOT out, is if every soldier in the circle opened fire at the EXACT same time. Not even a supersoldier necessarily does that.

You aren't thinking in 3-Dimensions.

Yeah, Medivh wins this.

Gonna have to give this one to Cloud. First of all I would say Cloud stands a chance even against Sargaras. I'd say for universe equivillancy's sake we put power of Trisfallen and Mako + Genova cells on a similar level they are essentially the energies of the planet. Now moving on. Yes Cloud can move faster than and consciously react to bullets. Zack in the Last Order (go see on youtube) while escaping from Hojo's men gets cornered with a semiconscious Cloud, plants his buster sword in front of Cloud and procedes to beat Shinra soldiers sensless with his bare hands while dodging the bullets of no less than two dozen troops simultaneosly firing automatic weapons in a massed volley. Now if that is true and Cloud can move faster how can anyone in the World of Warcraft stand up to that. I mean come on not only is his speed ridiculous look at Neo-Bahamut in Advent Children. Cloud with his ridiculous strength smacks the thing out of the air and forces it into the ground and then proceeded to dive straight through a city destroying ball of energy to smite the bastard. Sorry world of Warcraft fans Medivh stands no chance.

Originally posted by Uriel005
Gonna have to give this one to Cloud. First of all I would say Cloud stands a chance even against Sargaras. I'd say for universe equivillancy's sake we put power of Trisfallen and Mako + Genova cells on a similar level they are essentially the energies of the planet. Now moving on. Yes Cloud can move faster than and consciously react to bullets. Zack in the Last Order (go see on youtube) while escaping from Hojo's men gets cornered with a semiconscious Cloud, plants his buster sword in front of Cloud and procedes to beat Shinra soldiers sensless with his bare hands while dodging the bullets of no less than two dozen troops simultaneosly firing automatic weapons in a massed volley. Now if that is true and Cloud can move faster how can anyone in the World of Warcraft stand up to that. I mean come on not only is his speed ridiculous look at Neo-Bahamut in Advent Children. Cloud with his ridiculous strength smacks the thing out of the air and forces it into the ground and then proceeded to dive straight through a city destroying ball of energy to smite the bastard. Sorry world of Warcraft fans Medivh stands no chance.

I'm not sure if we should compare them so directly. Power of Tirisfalen isn't power of the planet. It's power given by the Council of Tirisfal to the Guardian(Medivh, in our case).

As you may have already read, it has already been proven that Cloud cannot move faster than bullets or even half as fast. He can react to bullets, yes, but that doesn't mean he can move as fast.

Cloud's strength doesn't really matter since Medivh pretty much has human durability. Not like it matters, he could put a curse on Cloud, teleport away and watch Cloud rot alive. He's not getting through an entire city block without Medivh noticing him. Cloud could be kilometers away and Medivh would already know where exactly he is and what he is about to do.

And no, Cloud has no chance against Sargeras. Sargeras's mere presence would crush and/or incinerate Cloud.

Medivh for the win.

Originally posted by Uriel005
Gonna have to give this one to Cloud. First of all I would say Cloud stands a chance even against Sargaras. I'd say for universe equivillancy's sake we put power of Trisfallen and Mako + Genova cells on a similar level they are essentially the energies of the planet. Now moving on. Yes Cloud can move faster than and consciously react to bullets. Zack in the Last Order (go see on youtube) while escaping from Hojo's men gets cornered with a semiconscious Cloud, plants his buster sword in front of Cloud and procedes to beat Shinra soldiers sensless with his bare hands while dodging the bullets of no less than two dozen troops simultaneosly firing automatic weapons in a massed volley. Now if that is true and Cloud can move faster how can anyone in the World of Warcraft stand up to that. I mean come on not only is his speed ridiculous look at Neo-Bahamut in Advent Children. Cloud with his ridiculous strength smacks the thing out of the air and forces it into the ground and then proceeded to dive straight through a city destroying ball of energy to smite the bastard. Sorry world of Warcraft fans Medivh stands no chance.

Cloud doesn't have that much Mako in him, he didn't soak in it for the normal amount of time...and the normal amount of time isn't to much.

Also, he wasn't running AS fast as the bullets, he was reacting to them(A lot of them), which is still very impressive.

Cloud was healed to get through that blast, although it is crazy he survived as much as he did.

Even saying that, Zack and Cloud ARE fast, just not fast enough to run a 'city blocks' distance before Medivh could act (and kill him).

Jenova, not Genova.

Originally posted by Uriel005
Gonna have to give this one to Cloud. First of all I would say Cloud stands a chance even against Sargaras. I'd say for universe equivillancy's sake we put power of Trisfallen and Mako + Genova cells on a similar level they are essentially the energies of the planet. Now moving on. Yes Cloud can move faster than and consciously react to bullets. Zack in the Last Order (go see on youtube) while escaping from Hojo's men gets cornered with a semiconscious Cloud, plants his buster sword in front of Cloud and procedes to beat Shinra soldiers sensless with his bare hands while dodging the bullets of no less than two dozen troops simultaneosly firing automatic weapons in a massed volley. Now if that is true and Cloud can move faster how can anyone in the World of Warcraft stand up to that. I mean come on not only is his speed ridiculous look at Neo-Bahamut in Advent Children. Cloud with his ridiculous strength smacks the thing out of the air and forces it into the ground and then proceeded to dive straight through a city destroying ball of energy to smite the bastard. Sorry world of Warcraft fans Medivh stands no chance.

You have not read anything I've said, have you? There is no proof he's faster, as fast, or even anything near as fast as a bullet. Not him nor Zack.

The power of Tirisfal comes partially from the Sunwell, which I guess indirectly could be considered the power of the planet, but I would not go around calling it that.

Sorry.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
And no, Cloud has no chance against Sargeras. Sargeras's mere presence would crush and/or incinerate Cloud.

Cloud is not worthy even the mentioning of Sargeras in his thread