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two masters of the undead fight it out

This one must've been done in the past.

This thread sucks.

Couldn't find it on search. I guess it hasn't been. Don't know KMC as well as I thought.

Kain is not a very powerful character. He has a few couple of feats but none that would help him against the Lich King. The Lich King create mini-Kains with the flick of a finger.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Couldn't find it on search. I guess it hasn't been. Don't know KMC as well as I thought.

Kain is not a very powerful character. He has a few couple of feats but none that would help him against the Lich King. The Lich King create mini-Kains with the flick of a finger. Prepare to have the most annoying debate in your life.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
Prepare to have the most annoying debate in your life.

http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/7/7a/Jeez-not_agaian.jpg

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/7/7a/Jeez-not_agaian.jpg I love you too.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
I love you too.

Naw, I meant all the Kain threads.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
Prepare to have the most annoying debate in your life.

I don't plan on furthering it. While there are some uncertain debates out there, Kain against Lich King is not one of them.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
I don't plan on furthering it. While there are some uncertain debates out there, Kain against Lich King is not one of them. That is what I said the first time I debated against Kain.

i know the thread sucks but its about time BT learns a lesson

Kain barely qualify as adept magician on Azeroth. Running him up against the Lich King is like feeding Deathwing a lamb. It never stood a chance.

durlaugh
Q'Anilia, I think you're misunderstanding the others.. They agree that Kain isn't a very powerful character, BUT, there is one person on this site who .. will not see eye to eye with you. Best of luck.

I know. Burning Thought. Debating Kain against planet destroyers. Grave misconception of character.

Kain has pretty good feats all-round. He's not nearly as hot as someone might believe, but I'm not gonna preach to the converted.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Kain has pretty good feats all-round. He's not nearly as hot as someone might believe, but I'm not gonna preach to the converted.

Good is a matter of relativity.

Dude.

BT debates that Kain can defeat Pyron, a casual planet-buster above the likes of Lich King by thousands of miles.

How is this teaching him a lesson?

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
Dude.

BT debates that Kain can defeat Pyron, a casual planet-buster above the likes of Lich King by thousands of miles.

How is this teaching him a lesson?

When someone makes a thread to clearly spite (think Kain vs Thanos with the Gauntlet), then why not go with it just to piss off the spiters?

a person with powers to affect the undead vs an undead vampire. think.

hell Lezard Valeth as this too

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
When someone makes a thread to clearly spite (think Kain vs Thanos with the Gauntlet), then why not go with it just to piss off the spiters? BT believes what he is typing, he is not doing it to spite the spiters.

And fun fact, BT also believes that at the end of Defiance, Kain actually can beat Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet.

BT will just argue that it's magic power over undead and that Kain has power over all magic or something.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
BT believes what he is typing, he is not doing it to spite the spiters.

And fun fact, BT also believes that at the end of Defiance, Kain actually can beat Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet.

Couldn't he just blow up Nosgoth's solar system? Maybe the entire galaxy?

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Couldn't he just blow up Nosgoth's solar system? Maybe the entire galaxy? Try collapsing the entire universe without effort.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Couldn't he just blow up Nosgoth's solar system? Maybe the entire galaxy? yeah, he can also do the falcon punch after claiming captain falcon's soul

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
Try collapsing the entire universe without effort.

Oh damn. I guess that by comic book standards you're a nobody if you can't crap out entire universes.

Originally posted by Phanteros
a person with powers to affect the undead vs an undead vampire. think.

Kain being undead has nothing to do with Lich King being victorious. He outpower him drastically.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Oh damn. I guess that by comic book standards you're a nobody if you can't crap out entire universes. Not really true.

By comic standards, Thanos at base is extraordinarily powerful, with the Gauntlet, he is one of the top in Marvel.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Kain being undead has nothing to do with Lich King being victorious. He outpower him drastically. nope. LK can always control him since he is undead

Originally posted by Phanteros
nope. LK can always control him since he is undead

No, he can't. Think the Forsaken.

Originally posted by Phanteros
nope. LK can always control him since he is undead

The Lich King has only proven capable of controling those he himself has brought back. If he would revive Kain after having killed him, he could control him. At least for a period of time.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Oh damn. I guess that by comic book standards you're a nobody if you can't crap out entire universes.

There are plenty of Comic characters under cosmic level that would wreck a bunch of VG characters.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
There are plenty of Comic characters under cosmic level that would wreck a bunch of VG characters. This is true, generally comics are more powerful, with anime being second, and videogames third, not sure where written literature would go, but that is the basic of the power levels between the mediums.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
This is true, generally comics are more powerful, with anime being second, and videogames third, not sure where written literature would go, but that is the basic of the power levels between the mediums.

Many video, comic and anime characters exist in books

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Many video, comic and anime characters exist in books While that is true, that is merely an extension of their established medium.

I am speaking of Literature-originating characters from series such as Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, etc.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Many video, comic and anime characters exist in books

Where else would comic characters exist?

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
While that is true, that is merely an extension of their established medium.

I am speaking of Literature-originating characters from series such as Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, etc.

Dr. Strange vs Harry, Dumbledore and Voldemort.

Well, if you ask me, I say that having characters with ridiculously outrageous powers is a sign of lack of imagination/inspiration.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Where else would comic characters exist?

In comic books.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Well, if you ask me, I say that having characters with ridiculously outrageous powers is a sign of lack of imagination/inspiration. like who? and what kind of power?

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
In comic books.

Exactly.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Well, if you ask me, I say that having characters with ridiculously outrageous powers is a sign of lack of imagination/inspiration.

Not exactly, I mean yeah Superman could destroy a bunch of VG characters but in his own world he wouldn't seem as powerful when faced against people like Darkseid, Doomsday, Martian Manhunter, Silver Surfer.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
While that is true, that is merely an extension of their established medium.

I am speaking of Literature-originating characters from series such as Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, etc.

Given the quantity of books in this world, I'm guessing that there are a couple of powerful characters there as well.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Exactly.

Don't know where you're from, but where I live, in my native language, a book and a comic book are two seperate things. Both just happening to have pages in them.

A more direct translate would be "Books" and "Comic Magazines", I guess.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Given the quantity of books in this world, I'm guessing that there are a couple of powerful characters there as well.

I think there were some very powerful characters in the Cthulhu mythos.

About comic books having ridiculous characters. Well, just look at how many characters there are who can warp reality, space and time, how many can pretty much crap out universes at will, how many have near-omnipotence. I think that's just not interesting at all.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Don't know where you're from, but where I live, in my native language, a book and a comic book are two seperate things. Both just happening to have pages in them.

A more direct translate would be "Books" and "Comic Magazines", I guess.

Really nothing that different provided one is based on art and short stories. Comics are a type of book just like graphic novels and Manga.

Spite, LK has no chance, hell the main embodiment of the thing is a soul, what a ridciulous character to put against Kain who is in his prime.

Sure

yeah Kain wins another one, how foolish of me to even think LK has a chance.just joking

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
Dude.

BT debates that Kain can defeat Pyron, a casual planet-buster above the likes of Lich King by thousands of miles.

How is this teaching him a lesson?

Don't forget he thinks Kain can solo universes (Example: God of War Universe) dur

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
I think there were some very powerful characters in the Cthulhu mythos.

About comic books having ridiculous characters. Well, just look at how many characters there are who can warp reality, space and time, how many can pretty much crap out universes at will, how many have near-omnipotence. I think that's just not interesting at all. And look at how many cannot.

Comics is a huge medium, that has spanned for decades. The majority of their characters, are NOT so powerful.

And as for who can warp reality, that is a very vague term, the Infinity Gauntlet which was mentioned in this thread is very powerful by comic standards.

Spiderman, Batman, Ironman, even top-tier characters like Superman or Thor, can do nothing above planetary most of the time.

And why is vast power synonymous with lack of imagination to you?

Books are just as capable of having extremely powerful characters as any other media.

As for the thread LK for the win.

how?

By beating Kain.

Is that the only way he can win? well damn, hes screwed then....

I guess your right.

Lich King stats -
Health - 27,890,000 (maximum)
Mana - 8,516,000 (maximum)

He also carries Frostmourne, gets exponentially more powerful as time passes, and is thought of as a god by several clans and races. He also backs this up with his power and abilities.

Kain get's his pasty ass handed to him. Anyone who says different is....well is Burning Thought.

Originally posted by KingD19
Lich King stats -
Health - 27,890,000 (maximum)
Mana - 8,516,000 (maximum)

Irrelevant. Utterly irrelevant.

In what way? If you compare his health and magic to Kain's, his trumps Kain's obviously.

Originally posted by KingD19
In what way? If you compare his health and magic to Kain's, his trumps Kain's obviously.

I guess that Kain's health and magic max is 100?

Yeah... you really can't see the problem with this?

I see the problem with it, I was just putting it out there. Let's take the stats out, who do you think wins? The guy who can summon undead armies, or the vampire?

That's a fallacious argument.

I know vampires who could solo the Scourge.

I know a man from Gallifrey who could solo the Warcraft-universe.

Originally posted by KingD19
Lich King stats -
Health - 27,890,000 (maximum)
Mana - 8,516,000 (maximum)

He also carries Frostmourne, gets exponentially more powerful as time passes, and is thought of as a god by several clans and races. He also backs this up with his power and abilities.

Kain get's his pasty ass handed to him. Anyone who says different is....well is Burning Thought.

While the stats are irrelevant, they are also inaccurate, so wouldn't count anyway. His health differ for every encounter you have with him, and there are weaker beings with more health.
The fact that he's considered a God is also irrelevant (Although not inaccurate in Azerothian definition)

Frostmourne only increase his power for every soul he claims, so as time passes is only partially correct. "As souls passes" would be more propriate.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
That's a fallacious argument.

I know vampires who could solo the Scourge. Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I know a man from Gallifrey who could solo the Warcraft-universe.

There are countless characters that could solo the Warcraft-universe. (Not quite so many that can inflict permanent damage though, although irrelevant)

LK greatest power is the ability to create armies of undead and his vast mind power that allow him to control them..can he use that here??what is his other ability??how powerful is his magic??Arthas as a death knight doesn't seem much..Ner'zhul didn't show us anything..all he did is create an army of undead..now that they are one..all i see is Ner'zhul with Arthas body and skill..what makes him so powerful??cuz to me..what makes him powerful is his vast and unlimited armies..but he himself..i don't know..it's just that i don't think he's that insanely powerful..

Originally posted by Slaanesh
LK greatest power is the ability to create armies of undead and his vast mind power that allow him to control them..can he use that here??what is his other ability??how powerful is his magic??Arthas as a death knight doesn't seem much..Ner'zhul didn't show us anything..all he did is create an army of undead..now that they are one..all i see is Ner'zhul with Arthas body and skill..what makes him so powerful??cuz to me..what makes him powerful is his vast and unlimited armies..but he himself..i don't know..it's just that i don't think he's that insanely powerful..
After a few deep breaths, I decided to take in consideration the fact that you are not very familiar with the lore of Warcraft.

The Lich King is the fusion entity of Arthas and Ner'Zhul.

Ner'Zhul during his late stages of life proved to be a highly talented magician and master of warfare. He was capable of opening a portal to another world, which resulted in the destruction of his own. That's irrelevant however, but indirectly, he's a planet destroyer

You are apperantly talking about Arthas strictly as he's seen in Warcraft 3, which is your first of many misstakes. World of Warcraft confirm to us that Arthas as a Death Knight was possibly as powerful as Teron Gorefiend. Teron Gorefiend when he returned to Draenor killed dozen of men instantly with a single gesture, the flick of a finger. An ability Arthas was proven to have if you pay attention during a particular quest in Icecrown in World of Warcraft. A quest that shows you the memories of Arthas.

Arthas stalemated Illidan in one encounter in a simple battle sword-to-sword, which prove his competence as a swordsman, although that too irrelevant to the thread.


I'll just jump straight to the Lich King, who I'll call Arthas from now on. Arthas during your first encounter with him in Northrend imprisoned you in a sphere I believe called "Grasp of the Lich King", in which you were completely immobile. It was stated that for as long as you was in this sphere, Arthas could decide if you live or die.

He is refrained as the God of Death for the reason that life and death is no limitation to him. It's implied in Ghostlands that Arthas can not die even if his physical body is utterly destroyed, that he's able to regenerate from ashes. This is a feat that Dar'Khan, a servant of the Lich King proved to have as a result of Arthas blessing.

Arthas can enter and exit the spiritworld in a whim and is while in the spiritworld untouchable by Kain, although contruary does not apply, meaning that Kain is not untouchable to the Lich King.

I'm not even going to begin including all the Lich and Death Knight abilities that Arthas has at this state, for they are way too many. I'm also not going to start going on about the basic magical abilities of Warcraft and all the common knowledge of liches, magicians, death knights and Arthas as a fused entity. It's simply not worth my time.


What I can say is that Kain will lose what few advantages he might have. Are you familiar to the A.M.A.Z.O android from DC Comics? Arthas steals the powers of his opponent when he strike them, applying them as his own. That is if he decide to torment his victim rather than stealing his soul on initial touch of Frostmourne.

Don't misstaken that post for anything. I have no interest in debating Kain Vs. The Lich King, contruary to possible appearance. I also have no intentions of debating the containts of that post.

If you think it's because I can't do it, you are free to do so. I really don't care if you do. Define it as a concede if it makes you feel any better or more certain of your own belief.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
After a few deep breaths, I decided to take in consideration the fact that you are not very familiar with the lore of Warcraft.

The Lich King is the fusion entity of Arthas and Ner'Zhul.

Ner'Zhul during his late stages of life proved to be a highly talented magician and master of warfare. He was capable of opening a portal to another world, which resulted in the destruction of his own. That's irrelevant however, but indirectly, he's a planet destroyer

You are apperantly talking about Arthas strictly as he's seen in Warcraft 3, which is your first of many misstakes. World of Warcraft confirm to us that Arthas as a Death Knight was possibly as powerful as Teron Gorefiend. Teron Gorefiend when he returned to Draenor killed dozen of men instantly with a single gesture, the flick of a finger. An ability Arthas was proven to have if you pay attention during a particular quest in Icecrown in World of Warcraft. A quest that shows you the memories of Arthas.

Arthas stalemated Illidan in one encounter in a simple battle sword-to-sword, which prove his competence as a swordsman, although that too irrelevant to the thread.


I'll just jump straight to the Lich King, who I'll call Arthas from now on. Arthas during your first encounter with him in Northrend imprisoned you in a sphere I believe called "Grasp of the Lich King", in which you were completely immobile. It was stated that for as long as you was in this sphere, Arthas could decide if you live or die.

He is refrained as the God of Death for the reason that life and death is no limitation to him. It's implied in Ghostlands that Arthas can not die even if his physical body is utterly destroyed, that he's able to regenerate from ashes. This is a feat that Dar'Khan, a servant of the Lich King proved to have as a result of Arthas blessing.

Arthas can enter and exit the spiritworld in a whim and is while in the spiritworld untouchable by Kain, although contruary does not apply, meaning that Kain is not untouchable to the Lich King.

I'm not even going to begin including all the Lich and Death Knight abilities that Arthas has at this state, for they are way too many. I'm also not going to start going on about the basic magical abilities of Warcraft and all the common knowledge of liches, magicians, death knights and Arthas as a fused entity. It's simply not worth my time.


What I can say is that Kain will lose what few advantages he might have. Are you familiar to the A.M.A.Z.O android from DC Comics? Arthas steals the powers of his opponent when he strike them, applying them as his own. That is if he decide to torment his victim rather than stealing his soul on initial touch of Frostmourne.

Kain is far quicker than the lich king for one so he will not strike him at all, and secondly, Kain cannot touch the Lich King in the spirit world? what a ridicolous statement when Kain has a soul devouring sword in his hand, one strike and LK is gone, wheras can you be so sure one strike will harm Kain even if he just stands there and takes it? technically Kains soul should be gone and he can survive without organs so LK wil have to do some major destruction to even defeat Kain, wheras Kain would only have to make a gesture and the LK's soul is tossed out or devoured.

Where does it say he steals the powers of those he strikes? and Kain steals the powers of those he drinks the blood from.

Alright.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
After a few deep breaths, I decided to take in consideration the fact that you are not very familiar with the lore of Warcraft.

The Lich King is the fusion entity of Arthas and Ner'Zhul.

Ner'Zhul during his late stages of life proved to be a highly talented magician and master of warfare. He was capable of opening a portal to another world, which resulted in the destruction of his own. That's irrelevant however, but indirectly, he's a planet destroyer

You are apperantly talking about Arthas strictly as he's seen in Warcraft 3, which is your first of many misstakes. World of Warcraft confirm to us that Arthas as a Death Knight was possibly as powerful as Teron Gorefiend. Teron Gorefiend when he returned to Draenor killed dozen of men instantly with a single gesture, the flick of a finger. An ability Arthas was proven to have if you pay attention during a particular quest in Icecrown in World of Warcraft. A quest that shows you the memories of Arthas.

Arthas stalemated Illidan in one encounter in a simple battle sword-to-sword, which prove his competence as a swordsman, although that too irrelevant to the thread.

I'll just jump straight to the Lich King, who I'll call Arthas from now on. Arthas during your first encounter with him in Northrend imprisoned you in a sphere I believe called "Grasp of the Lich King", in which you were completely immobile. It was stated that for as long as you was in this sphere, Arthas could decide if you live or die.

He is refrained as the God of Death for the reason that life and death is no limitation to him. It's implied in Ghostlands that Arthas can not die even if his physical body is utterly destroyed, that he's able to regenerate from ashes. This is a feat that Dar'Khan, a servant of the Lich King proved to have as a result of Arthas blessing.

Arthas can enter and exit the spiritworld in a whim and is while in the spiritworld untouchable by Kain, although contruary does not apply, meaning that Kain is not untouchable to the Lich King.

I'm not even going to begin including all the Lich and Death Knight abilities that Arthas has at this state, for they are way too many. I'm also not going to start going on about the basic magical abilities of Warcraft and all the common knowledge of liches, magicians, death knights and Arthas as a fused entity. It's simply not worth my time.


What I can say is that Kain will lose what few advantages he might have. Are you familiar to the A.M.A.Z.O android from DC Comics? Arthas steals the powers of his opponent when he strike them, applying them as his own. That is if he decide to torment his victim rather than stealing his soul on initial touch of Frostmourne.

Ner'Zhul open those portal using some powerful artifacts if i'm not mistaken..not his own power..

who did he kill with a flick of a finger??

Arthas is a good swordsman..that is true..

so..u r saying "Grasp of the Lich King" can kill whoever he wants??doesn't that mean he can oneshot everyone what is the possibility that it can be counter by a powerful being??

i know LK can't die..even Kel'Thuzad can survive in spirit form when he got kill..but what if the one he's fighting can manipulate soul??

LK is just a combination of a very powerful lich and death knight..there's no magicians or Arthas ability in that fuse power..Arthas ability is a death knight ability..

so..if Frostmourne touch the enemy..it can copy the enemy ability or just steal his soul for the easy win..is that what u r saying??i didn't see he did any of that to Illidan..maybe he can only do that to a regular enemy..not a powerful one..

Originally posted by Slaanesh
who did he kill with a flick of a finger?

Teron Gorefiend: An Orc base.
Arthas Menethil: An Alliance company.

Originally posted by Slaanesh
maybe he can only do that to a regular enemy..not a powerful one..

Kain is not very powerful in Azeroth definition.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Teron Gorefiend: An Orc base.
Arthas Menethil: An Alliance company.

Kain is not very powerful in Azeroth definition.

so..it kills a bunch of loser..what so great about that..

well..i don't know about that..to me he seems powerful..don't get me wrong..i'm not saying Kain would win..i'm just stating the possibility of it being a good match..

but if LK can summon his endless armies of undead..then it's a stomp..

Originally posted by Slaanesh
so..it kills a bunch of loser..what so great about that..

well..i don't know about that..to me he seems powerful..don't get me wrong..i'm not saying Kain would win..i'm just stating the possibility of it being a good match..

but if LK can summon his endless armies of undead..then it's a stomp..

The fact that he kill them is pretty great, I'd say.

Powerful, perhaps. Powerful in Nosgoth definiton of the word. None of his powers is anything special on Azeroth. Lesser magicians can do anything he can. A novice Death Knight can drain all the blood out of a victim. A novice Lich can steal the soul of a victim. A novice Druid can shoot lightning. A novice Arcane magician can use telekinesis.

What few spells Kain has that's above novice level on Azeroth gives him no advantage at all. Slowing time and summoning a repelling shield is not at all impressive and far from adequate for him to win.


Do note that this is not a debate invite. I'm merely explaining.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
The fact that he kill them is pretty great, I'd say.

Powerful, perhaps. Powerful in Nosgoth definiton of the word. None of his powers is anything special on Azeroth. Lesser magicians can do anything he can. A novice Death Knight can drain all the blood out of a victim. A novice Lich can steal the soul of a victim. A novice Druid can shoot lightning. A novice Arcane magician can use telekinesis.

What few spells Kain has that's above novice level on Azeroth gives him no advantage at all. Slowing time and summoning a repelling shield is not at all impressive and far from adequate for him to win.


Do note that this is not a debate invite. I'm merely explaining.

hem..maybe..

but Kain can do all that rite..and perhaps to a greater extant..that means he can use any form of magic..that should make him a very powerful being..he's not a novice i think..

yeah i know..i'm just giving out my thought..

Originally posted by Slaanesh
hem..maybe..

but Kain can do all that rite..and perhaps to a greater extant..that means he can use any form of magic..that should make him a very powerful being..he's not a novice i think..

yeah i know..i'm just giving out my thought..

Pretty definately.

He's not a novice by Azeroth definition, but he's not powerful. His TK is weaker than the novice magician, his blood shower is as strong and his lightning is at most as strong as that of a druid.
Powerful: Medivh is powerful. Krasus is powerful. Illidan is powerful. Deathwing is powerful. Lich King is powerful. Sargeras is powerful.

Kain is above average. He's an undead guy with a few spells. Children magician apprentices knows more spells than he does. The only impressive spell he has is the one where he steals a soul. Unfortunately for him, he's battle the ruler of souls here. Arthas already as a death knight had superior control over souls. Now he rule the kingdom of souls.

So Q'Anilia is the defintion of a trolling fangirl, simply state a baseless opinion without idea of the opponent and will not even debate it...

you may as well have just gone

"lmao LK winz!"

And LK rules some spirits, that does not make him the master of souls, Kain has probably done greater things than LK, hell most of Kains sons could single handadly wipe out large portions of the scourge, hell Raziel could.

A wave of his hand and the LK is doomed, simple fact, he has no defence against such an assault, like a lot of the Warcraft characters you hold in high regard.

Yeah.

Kain has at least one ability that a novice magician doesn't - good durability and the apparent ability to survive against all odds. Getting his heart ripped out and sent only hell knows where? No problem, he just keeps coming back for more.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Kain has at least one ability that a novice magician doesn't - good durability and the apparent ability to survive against all odds. Getting his heart ripped out and sent only hell knows where? No problem, he just keeps coming back for more.

I don't define durability as an ability. Him having his heart ripped out and survived it does not put him anywhere above any Azeroth undead. When he survive having his head removed we can start talking Kain > Azeroth Undead.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Pretty definately.

He's not a novice by Azeroth definition, but he's not powerful. His TK is weaker than the novice magician, his blood shower is as strong and his lightning is at most as strong as that of a druid.
Powerful: Medivh is powerful. Krasus is powerful. Illidan is powerful. Deathwing is powerful. Lich King is powerful. Sargeras is powerful.

Kain is above average. He's an undead guy with a few spells. Children magician apprentices knows more spells than he does. The only impressive spell he has is the one where he steals a soul. Unfortunately for him, he's battle the ruler of souls here. Arthas already as a death knight had superior control over souls. Now he rule the kingdom of souls.

how do u know that his magic is not on Medivh or Krasus level??

Originally posted by Slaanesh
how do u know that his magic is not on Medivh or Krasus level??

Because he has shown nothing of the sort. I don't care if Burning Thought or anyone else claim for Kain that absence of proof is not proof of absence. In my book it is.

Medivh and Krasus both has showings that declare them powerful. Krasus created eight solid copies of himself and he countered the strongest spell Deathwing had. He could use spells from the other side of the planet. He was defined as the most powerful of The Six.
Medivh shortened Khadgars life by ageing him. He denied Khadgar magic. He literally melted a band of Orcs, including Warlocks in the band. He reinforced the defense of Dalaran. Aegwynn lifted Sargeras avatar and created an island where she burried it, which prove telekinesis easily a hundred times greater than Kain who lifted a lightweight human-ish guy who weighted probably less than I do.

I remember Lothar saying in a conversation why he feared the Magus (Medivh) that if a warrior slip with his sword, someone might die. If a magician slip with his spell, entire landscapes can be destroyed, destroying themselves in the process. Medivh is the greatest magician of all.

Or something of the sort. My point is that being powerful on Nosgoth is nowhere near the same league as being powerful on Azeroth.

i don't know about that..Kain beat an elder god..to me..that makes him very powerful..but if u think very powerful in Nosgoth is nothing but a loser in Azeroth..i won't argue with that..

Originally posted by Slaanesh
i don't know about that..Kain beat an elder god..to me..that makes him very powerful..but if u think very powerful in Nosgoth is nothing but a loser in Azeroth..i won't argue with that..

Being a God is nothing more than being something with a title. Lich King is a God now. And Gods die on Azeroth occasionally. There was a slaughter of Gods during War of the Ancients. Yogg-Saron and C'Thun both died at recent time, and another lies dead in Darkshore.

Godly as Elder God may have been, it was still just a title. There was nothing impressive at all with the Elder God battle with Kain. Only what Kain has done makes him deserving of the definition powerful, and he has done nothing that define him as powerful in Azeroth.


He would not be a loser on Azeroth, but he has not done anything that has earnt him the right to meld with the big guys.

Originally posted by Slaanesh
i don't know about that..Kain beat an elder god..to me..that makes him very powerful..but if u think very powerful in Nosgoth is nothing but a loser in Azeroth..i won't argue with that..

Maybe I'm missing something here, but Kain fought a few tentacles and an eye that shoots weaksauce energy blasts.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Maybe I'm missing something here, but Kain fought a few tentacles and an eye that shoots weaksauce energy blasts. That's about it.

that doesn't mean he's weak..it's a game..Yogg-Saron and C'Thun got kill by 25 loser..not even the titan were able to kill this two..and u wanna tell me some 25 loser can..

That's not the point. There's nothing impressive about that battle, so that battle can't be used as a reason to why Kain should be considered high and mighty.

why??he did beat a god..it doesn't matter how the game shows it..it's still a god..Yogg-Saron and C'Thun are powerful god..but in games they sukz..but we know they are very powerful..

Originally posted by Slaanesh
that doesn't mean he's weak..it's a game..Yogg-Saron and C'Thun got kill by 25 loser..not even the titan were able to kill this two..and u wanna tell me some 25 loser can..

Remember, the Titans fought the Old Gods(C'thun and Yogg-Saron are the only two named ones so far, there were more) and their Lieutenants when they were at full power. The Old Gods who were defeated and imprisoned(C'thun and Yogg-Saron) were stripped of 99.9% of their powers.

The beings that 40 and 25 'losers' fight are but only mere shadows of what they once were.

where did u get that 99.9% from??is that true??i know they were depowerd..but..99.9%..

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
I don't define durability as an ability. Him having his heart ripped out and survived it does not put him anywhere above any Azeroth undead. When he survive having his head removed we can start talking Kain > Azeroth Undead.

Before you start entering these debates and directly stating who would win without actually debating, you should at least know some basics on a character, for example how his heart being ripped out is perhaps the most important thing you could do to Kain to destroy him, his head being ripped off<his heart ripped out in Kains case.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Maybe I'm missing something here, but Kain fought a few tentacles and an eye that shoots weaksauce energy blasts.

yes in-game, in-game most of the characters in Warcraft seem pathetic as most people who enjoy Warcraft lore complain about, you cant base the power of a being just because in the gameplay battle Kain fights an eye and a couple of tentacles.

The Elder God himself could canonically rip apart most of Azeroth, hes like a super Old God.

Originally posted by Slaanesh
where did u get that 99.9% from??is that true??i know they we depowerd..but..99.9%..

Well, saying 99.9% is just sort of a way to get the message across. What I'm saying that they lost the vast majority of their former powers. The Old Gods you see/fight now are absolutely nothing they once were.

Originally posted by Slaanesh
why??he did beat a god..it doesn't matter how the game shows it..it's still a god..Yogg-Saron and C'Thun are powerful god..but in games they sukz..but we know they are very powerful..

I see. Absence of proof is not proof of absence, am I right?

Originally posted by Burning thought
Before you start entering these debates and directly stating who would win without actually debating, you should at least know some basics on a character, for example how his heart being ripped out is perhaps the most important thing you could do to Kain to destroy him, his head being ripped off<his heart ripped out in Kains case.



yes in-game, in-game most of the characters in Warcraft seem pathetic as most people who enjoy Warcraft lore complain about, you cant base the power of a being just because in the gameplay battle Kain fights an eye and a couple of tentacles.

The Elder God himself could canonically rip apart most of Azeroth, hes like a super Old God.

Your right.

Actually, a pre-Ordering Old God could rip Azeroth apart too. And if Elder God was at least half as powerful as an Old God(let alone a 'super' Old God) he would have vaporized Kain before he could say 'Blah!'.

even when depowered they are suppose to be very powerful..they were still able to invade the Emerald Dream and influence creature of Azeroth..getting kill by a bunch of mortal is stupid..

lets forget that..what i am trying to say is..we can't just use what was shown in game to decide that a certain char sukz..Archimonde can destroy city with a simple spell..did he use that kinda powerful spell in game..

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Actually, a pre-Ordering Old God could rip Azeroth apart too. And if Elder God was at least half as powerful as an Old God(let alone a 'super' Old God) he would have vaporized Kain before he could say 'Blah!'.

What makes you believe this? where is it stated the ycan vaporize beigns instantly or rip apart realms? and the Elder God is also the embodiment of the cycle of life on the planet so he is far more than any Old God, certainly by real feats and not assumption.

Originally posted by Slaanesh
even when depowered they are suppose to be very powerful..they were still able to invade the Emerald Dream and influence creature of Azeroth..getting kill by a bunch of mortal is stupid..

lets forget that..what i am trying to say is..we can't just use what was shown in game to decide that a certain char sukz..Archimonde can destroy city with a simple spell..did he use that kinda powerful spell in game..

Yes he did. That was the difficulty with the fight against Archimonde. He could kill the entire raid with a single spell.

But to give my opinion in the matter: World of Warcraft is a river of tears. Some of the things you do in-game are virtually impossible. Lore anomalies.

u can still avoid it..what's the point of having a powerful spell if it didn't hit the enemy..that's why i said we can't use the in-game fight..it sukz..it didn't show the true power of the char..a mortal would never stood a chance against Archimonde..

Originally posted by Slaanesh
u can still avoid it..what's the point of having a powerful spell if it didn't hit the enemy..that's why i said we can't use the in-game fight..it sukz..it didn't show the true power of the char..a mortal would never stood a chance against Archimonde..

The difference between comparing Archimonde and Elder God is that Archimonde has entire books and games filled with feats and quotes. Elder God not so much.

All we have on Elder God is what we see in the game. If we don't see much of him, we can't assume he is much more than he is. And the little we saw in the fight between Kain and him does not make it the slightest impressive. It is irrelevant if he can destroy the planet (Although he has never done it, so we don't know with absolute certainty), because he did not use any moves of such calibur against Kain. Therefore, despite the capabilities of the Elder God, it's not an impressive fight and Kain was not impressive for beating him, despite his power.

Nothing you say about Elder God. No matter what feats you bring up. Nothing makes that fight any more impressive than it already isnt.

well..to me it is impressive..not the fight..but what it means..like BT says..Elder God is the embodiment of the cycle of life on the planet..i don't know if that's true..but he knows more about it than i do..so i will assume it's true..Kain beat that..don't u think that is impressive..

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
and he countered the strongest spell Deathwing had.

Just to clarify, the spell that Deathwing casted was called Nameless hunger and erased everything it touched and it drained Krasus totally to defeat it while the spell was still young.

Originally posted by Slaanesh
well..to me it is impressive..not the fight..but what it means..like BT says..Elder God is the embodiment of the cycle of life on the planet..i don't know if that's true..but he knows more about it than i do..so i will assume it's true..Kain beat that..don't u think that is impressive..

Elder God is impressive. That fight is not impressive. Nothing will change that.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Just to clarify, the spell that Deathwing casted was called Nameless hunger and erased everything it touched and it drained Krasus totally to defeat it while the spell was still young.

Still impressive and a powerful feat

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Still impressive and a powerful feat

Should have said elaborate instead but agreed, a good feat.

But nameless hunger? Really? Kinda cool name for a spell. Is that mentioned in the book?

(Would love to see Kain stop that)

I'm not sure... In my translated version it doesn't say that when translated back, but a friend on mine said it was it's name in the english version so...

Ah! Page 93 in Day of the Dragon. Endless Hunger

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Elder God is impressive. That fight is not impressive. Nothing will change that.


We do not see anything of the canon fight, only gameplay, all we know is in canon Kain defeats the Elder God, whether he uses all his strength, all his eyes, or his full size we can not be sure. All we know is that in canon, Kain can beat an entity that is continent sized, just by hitting a small section of it, literally defeating what is the cycle of birth/death/rebirth and we know what the Elder God is capable of so we can accuratley assess it as impressive to defeat the Elder.

Agreed. Absence of proof is not proof of absence.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Ah! Page 93 in Day of the Dragon. Endless Hunger

And she was right yet again kind of irritating

I have that effect on people Wait ... little slow at collecting all data here. Again? Anything in particular you are looking back at?

Originally posted by Burning thought
We do not see anything of the canon fight, only gameplay, all we know is in canon Kain defeats the Elder God, whether he uses all his strength, all his eyes, or his full size we can not be sure. All we know is that in canon, Kain can beat an entity that is continent sized, just by hitting a small section of it, literally defeating what is the cycle of birth/death/rebirth and we know what the Elder God is capable of so we can accuratley assess it as impressive to defeat the Elder. We know that the creators of the game made you fight tentacles and not his full size. Elder God is an overglorified giant octopus with piss phasers.

Oh and BT, it is true that Q is ignoring you and refusing to debate you, but here is the difference between this situation and most. You're the opposition, and a known idiot and fanboy. People who waste time debating trash like you are also being idiots.

I wouldn't say I ignore him. I'd probably phrase it differently. He's the abundance to my poverty. He complete me in ways no one else can. I have no idea what I'm talking about.

Alright, I'm ignoring him hmm I read his posts though! So I only ignore him a little.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
I wouldn't say I ignore him. I'd probably phrase it differently. He's the abundance to my poverty. He complete me in ways no one else can. I have no idea what I'm talking about.

Alright, I'm ignoring him hmm I read his posts though! So I only ignore him a little. Every time I read your posts, my day gets a little bit brighter.

I'm pleased that my presence has a resplendent effect on you I can't quite see what would cause this though.

Must be my awesome flag!

finland

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
I'm pleased that my presence has a resplendent effect on you I can't quite see what would cause this though.

Must be my awesome flag!

finland Nah, not so much. mmm

I ruined it, didn't I? mmm

No, it is not your fault, it is mine.

Can you ever forgive me?

I'll put it on my To-Do list, but don't worry. I'll find it in my heart to do so

Eh.

Can't lie, even though I had no idea what he was saying, the song was pretty good.

Ah I edited to not get too much off-topic Finnish is quite the beautiful language, wouldn't you say?

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Ah I edited to not get too much off-topic Finnish is quite the beautiful language, wouldn't you say?

Yeah, I always thought Finnish sounded pretty cool.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Ah I edited to not get too much off-topic Finnish is quite the beautiful language, wouldn't you say? If you speak it, it must be. 131

How charming

Yeah, I'm a pretty kickass guy huh?

Absolutely finland

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
But nameless hunger? Really? Kinda cool name for a spell. Is that mentioned in the book?

(Would love to see Kain stop that)

i think Kain can counter it..i have no prove thou..do u think LK can do what Krasus did??

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
We know that the creators of the game made you fight tentacles and not his full size. Elder God is an overglorified giant octopus with piss phasers.

Oh and BT, it is true that Q is ignoring you and refusing to debate you, but here is the difference between this situation and most. You're the opposition, and a known idiot and fanboy. People who waste time debating trash like you are also being idiots.

But how many tentacles? he can instantly create more and multiply them as much as he wants, and yes they made ME fight him in that manner, but Kain? we dont know,all we know is that Kain won. And how is he overglorified? bullshit.....

I know she is, although technically she is one of the most clever on here because I would have thought by now nobody can actually beat me in a Kain thread so her not trying is showing this forum is learning, and you calling me a fanboy is amusing enough without calling me an idiot as well, go and blunder elseware with your minor intellect instead of this forum.

Originally posted by Slaanesh
i think Kain can counter it..i have no prove thou..do u think LK can do what Krasus did??

I know Kain can't counter it and I know Lich King can't. It's not within his capability to repeat the act even if he catches the spell as early as Krasus did. Let me copy the countering for your and everyone elses entertainment

*Clears throat*

finland



*Lord Prestor is Deathwing.

Originally posted by Burning thought
But how many tentacles? he can instantly create more and multiply them as much as he wants, and yes they made ME fight him in that manner, but Kain? we dont know,all we know is that Kain won. And how is he overglorified? bullshit.....

I know she is, although technically she is one of the most clever on here because I would have thought by now nobody can actually beat me in a Kain thread so her not trying is showing this forum is learning, and you calling me a fanboy is amusing enough without calling me an idiot as well, go and blunder elseware with your minor intellect instead of this forum.

You tell 'em! Absence of proof is not proof of absence finland

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
I know Kain can't counter it and I know Lich King can't. It's not within his capability to repeat the act even if he catches the spell as early as Krasus did. Let me copy the countering for your and everyone elses entertainment

*Clears throat*

finland

*Lord Prestor is Deathwing.

interesting..what a crazy spell that is..

Originally posted by Slaanesh
interesting..what a crazy spell that is..

It was declared forbidden by the ancients for its power. It was virtually an expanding zone of nothing that would turn anything it touched into nothing.

The spell seemed to be combined of light and heat which destroyed the hunger, which oddly enough sounds like a blob with tentacles by that paragraph quote alone, it does not sound like a difficult being to stop considering Kain has both light and heat at his disposal, also when it claims there is only one incanation that would work that does not mean its because its the only thing that can harm or defeat the hunger, it could mean that its the only thing he could have cast in the time he had, or perhaps the only thing he could cast with his current time and concentration, not necesseril because the hunger is immune to other things.

Richard A. Knaak is a writer that happily uses advanced English and often use a less common variety of a word. Tentacle in this sense means to extend. To reach out or to grasp, and in Knaak's sense of this text an annex adding onto itself, expanding on own accord. The Endless Hunger is an appending activity of virtually nothing. It's not a tentacle as you know it on an octopus, but rather an extension of the shadow that invaded Krasus sanctum.

The hunger is indubitably frail to what was an intense spell of light and heat, but merely because Kain has spells of light and heat (Not sure which) does not mean it is within his capability to stop the spell. The light Krasus used was of extreme intensity and brought heat along with it. Merely having heat and light at disposal does not mean one can stop the spell.

Well its still a tentacle, he says it too many times, what its actually made up of, its vulerable to light and heat, he has both although how intense light and heat you need to defeat it, its unkown, he does not state how hot or how great it is.

A tentacle as a centrally controlled branch, an extension of the initial spell. It's made out of nothing, that's what makes it so dangerous. It's a phenomenal, intellectual substance without a solid point. The tentacle is nothing other than a powerful, stretching shadow. A powerful one that is not effected by simple daylight. The heat was an attendant effect of the light, which was the initial intent with the spell. It was the light that defeated the shadow. The heat part is irrelevant, I dare say.

No regular light, needless to say.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
It was declared forbidden by the ancients for its power. It was virtually an expanding zone of nothing that would turn anything it touched into nothing.

Which should really point out just how insane the spell is, not even Malygos spell that erased existance was forbidden.