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Who wins?

Thor does. 10/10.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Thor does. 10/10.

Thor does win 10/10 but WW3 BA was a beast.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Thor does win 10/10 but WW3 BA was a Beastie Boy.

LOL LOL. Whatever Big Eny you know you like BA... even if you've fallen out of love with him recently.

How does Thor win 10/10?

BA has nothing to put him down.

He was invincible? I think BA's durability can withstand much of Thor's attacks.

Thor, but its a tough battle.

Originally posted by cloud102
How does Thor win 10/10?

By beating BA with his hammer, over and over.

Don't get me wrong I love BA he's is probably one of my favorites. However, B and T Thor was on a whole different level during that run.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
By beating BA with his hammer, over and over.

If he can actually tag him.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Don't get me wrong I love BA he's is probably one of my favorites. However, B and T Thor was on a whole different level during that run.

Can ya send me some feats? I don't remember much, but Adam was taking it to SHAZAM Billy as well.

Originally posted by cloud102
Can ya send me some feats? I don't remember much, but Adam was taking it to SHAZAM Billy as well. B&T Thor beat down Beta ray bill and Surfer.

Shazam billy hasnt done anything that great imo, and ww3 Adam didnt fight Shazam did he.

Originally posted by Nihilist
B&T Thor beat down Beta ray bill and Surfer.

Shazam billy hasnt done anything that great imo, and ww3 Adam didnt fight Shazam did he.

SHAZAM Billy had the will to hold up the planet in SHAZAM maxi series.

he also beat down Drax with the Gem as well as strange.

Originally posted by cloud102
SHAZAM Billy had the will to hold up the planet in SHAZAM maxi series. I meant battle feats

Originally posted by cloud102
Can ya send me some feats? I don't remember much, but Adam was taking it to SHAZAM Billy as well.
One-shotting Drax w/ PG on two separate occasions. Beating BRB and then Thor easily. As well as the entire IW.

All before Thor took the Gem. With it, he beat the IW, Surfer and Classic Strange simultaneously.

Wasnt WW3 BA getting hurt by Martian manhunters heatvision?

Originally posted by Nihilist
I meant battle feats

The only thing mentioned was he kept a bunch of SHAZAM villains in check. Like Sorrow and Fiend with 5 Faces or whatever it was called. He spends most of his time in the Rock, but the little time he did fight with Adam, Adam was taking it to him in WW 3 special.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Wasnt WW3 BA getting hurt by Martian manhunters heatvision?
It's called "Martian Vision" you tool.



And yes. His face was melting.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Wasnt WW3 BA getting hurt by Martian manhunters heatvision?

Martian Vision and BA also took an attack the size of a Football field in his brain and still kept on going. He eventually beat MM, IIRC.

Originally posted by Enyalus
It's called "Martian Vision" you tool.



And yes. His face was melting.

lol. my bad. If so then how the hell is he supposed to resist Blood and thunder thors attacks? I stand with my original statement thor 10/10

Originally posted by Naija boy
lol. my bad. If so then how the hell is he supposed to resist thors Blood and thunder thors attacks? I stand with my original statement thor 10/10
Wise in the ways of the Force, are you.

So, Adam took on Alan Scott, MM, Billy, and a slew of 2nd tier characters. Not bad. I still think this is close. Marvel's Family's durability is insane.

Originally posted by cloud102
I still think this is close.

It's not.

Ok, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Against classic thor its close. Against blood and thunder thor its not close at all.

Classic Adam and Classic Thor is really close. Adam powered by the Amulet and his gods would make it close.

B&T Thor for the win

Meh, I'm not really in the mood.

Other showings of durability that surpass even Thor, IMO is getting knocked out of the solar system with one blow by Onimar Synn, flying through the Spectre effortlessly, battling the JSA on more than one occasion while having a tumor, facing off against Eclipso, etc...

And add his battle with SHAZAM (WIZARD) and SHAZAM admited he couldn't hurt Adam.

That doesn't include Billy standing up to 5 Dimensional energy, which is far greater than even Thor's hammer.

Originally posted by cloud102
And add his battle with SHAZAM (WIZARD) and SHAZAM admited he couldn't hurt Adam.
You like mixing Pre and Post Crisis feats, so I have to ask: When was this? BA's mini during 52? After? Before?

Teth front kicks him through the sternum.

Originally posted by Enyalus
You like mixing Pre and Post Crisis feats, so I have to ask: When was this? BA's mini during 52? After? Before?

When have I ever mixed them? At first I thought it was, but sifting through Thorion's respect thread, Adam has shown to best even SHAZAM. SHAZAM couldn't even take his powers away and people like to claim that Thor can with his hammer. lol.

BTW, supposedly Jerry retconned this out in the Power of SHAZAM Graphic novel, so I believe it's cannon.

http://img111.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=568ef_pyramid3.jpg

Blood and Thunder Thor is not going to his hammer's full power. He'll fight like a brain dead retard.

He may win, he may not. But Adam despite being in rage mode, won't fight as stupidly. Not to mention the speed edge.

So, Superman beats WWIII BA, but B&T Thor doesn't?

lol

Because Superman will actually use his full range of abilities and won't act like a retard with a hammer. And Thor's slow.

Okay.


...You realize Thor's blocked energy attacks during B&T right? You expecting him to actually need the Godblast or Anti-Force blast here? Yeah right.

Of course he thinks Superman will do better.

Originally posted by Mindset
Of course he thinks Superman will do better.
Its just that...I made a B&T Thor vs. Supes thread, and it was closed for Spite. By Raoul. Mr. Supes fanboy himself.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=499619&pagenumber=1

Consequently...I have no idea what he meant by saying I was complaining in it. Since I didn't.

Come on TP, Superman isn't going to do any better. Matter of fact, he's going to do WORSE.

Against a retarded Thor who won't use any of the powers of his hammer? I think not.

I didn't give Adam the win. I just said Thor is much weaker because he will not use his full range of powers in this mode.

Thor cannot defeat Superman without the hammer. That's painfully obvious.

Thor wins

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Against a retarded Thor who won't use any of the powers of his hammer? I think not.

I didn't give Adam the win. I just said Thor is much weaker because he will not use his full range of powers in this mode.

Thor cannot defeat Superman without the hammer. That's painfully obvious.

Well, duh, but he does have his hammer. One blow is all he needs, while Adam has his durability to rely on. Unlike Superman.

He's going to use it like a club. That's nowhere near as dangerous as using it's true power.

Adam is faster and won't be fighting in a blind rage. I'm not giving him the win outright, but Thor is at a DISADVANTAGE in this mode.

couldn't WW3 Black Adam just take thors hammer away, his smart enough and fast enough to catch it?

he's just not worthy enough to wield it

Originally posted by supremthor
couldn't WW3 Black Adam just take thors hammer away, his smart enough and fast enough to catch it?

He could, but he couldn't wield it, though. A few SHAZAM lightning bolts and Thor would be down, IMO.

u do realize Thor is extremely magical resistant right

Same with a lot of Marvel's and Adam's foes, yet he can still do it. SHAZAM for one.

Shazam lightning attacks? Against the God of Thunder? O_o

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Shazam lightning attacks? Against the God of Thunder? O_o
Lol...exactly. Thor would either control it, or block it with Mjolnir.

And as for Thor needing his hammer to beat Superman....that's not proven, either. He's beaten Hulk & Thing without it. And a Mjolnir-wielding Loki + Fenris Wolf without it.

...Plus soloing Durok.

Thor

You guys are pathetic. It's NOT just lightning, you know that? I mean if it can harm Spectre and SHAZAM (WHO ALSO WIELDS IT), it can **** up Thor. GTFO.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Lol...exactly. Thor would either control it, or block it with Mjolnir.

And as for Thor needing his hammer to beat Superman....that's not proven, either. He's beaten Hulk & Thing without it. And a Mjolnir-wielding Loki + Fenris Wolf without it.

...Plus soloing Durok. Control it? It's a spell

The fact that Adam's magic is magical in nature does not mean that mjolnir cannot absorb/deflect it

Originally posted by Warlord
The fact that Adam's magic is magical in nature does not mean that mjolnir cannot absorb/deflect it

It also doesn't mean he can, so it depends on the writer. That's why I said a few, because I'm sure Thor can deflect some of it. It wouldn't be the first time Adam or Billy has taken down magical beings in nature, anyway.

Originally posted by cloud102
It also doesn't mean he can, so it depends on the writer. That's why I said a few, because I'm sure Thor can deflect some of it. It wouldn't be the first time Adam or Billy has taken down magical beings in nature, anyway.

I agree... It depends.
But still I haven't seen Mjolnir having trouble with any magic source so I think Thor can take a majority. After all it won't be the first time for Thor to put down magically enhanced beings

That's why I say it's close, but Adam and Billy have protection against magic, so I give a sleight majority to Adam. Speed, durability, and strength. Not to mention he was powered by Isis as well.

Mjolnir's severed Cyttorak's magic from Juggernaut before. Something Classic Strange couldn't do. The notion that he'd have issues absorbing magical lightning is stupid.

Again, just because he can do A, doesn't mean he can do B. They are 2 different sources and not the same. Besides, Adam has more than one magical attack, backed by the gods that give it to him.

Strength and speed it's debatable. Thor has moved in faster than light speeds before and has strength feats on a planetary scale. The fact that Adam has some resistance against magic does not mean it cannot be overcome. Thor has a much wider array of powers he can use like mjolnir itself, portals, weather control, the anti force blast and of course the god-blast. I don't see Adam fairing much better than Durok in Rahnarok if Thor decides to go all out.
Thor 6-7/10 IMO

Originally posted by Warlord
Strength and speed it's debatable. Thor has moved in faster than light speeds before and has strength feats on a planetary scale. The fact that Adam has some resistance against magic does not mean it cannot be overcome. Thor has a much wider array of powers he can use like portals, weather control, the anti force blast and of course the god-blast. I don't see Adam fairing much better than Durok in Rahnarok if Thor decides to go all out.
Thor 6-7/10 IMO

Well, show me an instance where magic has overcome their durability. If you can't give me one, than I think you're wrong here. If 5th D energy wasn't able to by pass the Marvel family, I don't think Thor can. Just saying.

Originally posted by cloud102
Well, show me an instance where magic has overcome their durability. If you can't give me one, than I think you're wrong here. If 5th D energy wasn't able to by pass the Marvel family, I don't think Thor can. Just saying.
Physical blows from an uru metal hammer are not the same as as an energy blast.

Originally posted by cloud102
Well, show me an instance where magic has overcome their durability. If you can't give me one, than I think you're wrong here. If 5th D energy wasn't able to by pass the Marvel family, I don't think Thor can. Just saying.

Like you said, just because one thing couldn't do it doesn't mean the other can't. It's not a question of magic but power, and I thin Thor can muster power enough to overcome their durability

Originally posted by Enyalus
Physical blows from an uru metal hammer are not the same as as an energy blast.

Like Adam is just going to stand there. You really think Thor will tag Adam more often than not? It's not like Adam hasn't taken those tough blows before.

Originally posted by Warlord
Like you said, just because one thing couldn't do it doesn't mean the other can't. It's not a question of magic but power, and I thin Thor can muster power enough to overcome their durability

BUT if The Marvel Family and Black family have a STRONG history of overpowering such spells and magic attacks (Even resisting Dr. Fate), then I'm going to back that history. Show me one example, just one. I'm sure they're out there.

Originally posted by cloud102
Like Adam is just going to stand there. You really think Thor will tag Adam more often than not? It's not like Adam hasn't taken those tough blows before.
What, taken planet-destroying punches before?

Thor was making Thanos bleed. Thanos' durability's easily skyfather level.

Originally posted by cloud102
Like Adam is just going to stand there. You really think Thor will tag Adam more often than not? It's not like Adam hasn't taken those tough blows before.

actually Adam has never taken those blows before since he hasn't encounter mjolnir before.
It's just an opinion battle and Eny and everyone else here has every right to belive that mjolnir's blows would severely hurt him. You might think otherwise, it's ok but it's just an opinion too

Originally posted by Enyalus
What, taken planet-destroying punches before?

Thor was making Thanos bleed. Thanos' durability's easily skyfather level.

Uh, yeah, Adam was punched through a PLANET. Knocked out of the ATMOSPHERE by Onimar Synn. You know a being on THANOS's LEVEL.

Originally posted by cloud102
BUT if The Marvel Family and Black family have a STRONG history of overpowering such spells and magic attacks (Even resisting Dr. Fate), then I'm going to back that history. Show me one example, just one. I'm sure they're out there.

By your logic there is no proof that Odin would be able to hurt Adam too

BTW, this was pre-powered up WW3 Adam. Now, think of him powered up by ANOTHER source.

Originally posted by Warlord
By your logic there is no proof that Odin would be able to hurt Adam too

Well, if SHAZAM couldn't, then MAYBE Odin might not be able to.

You do know that even before The Marvel family was introduced to DC comics, they had TRUE invulnerability. NOTHING could harm them. It's been that way for a long time, until they calmed that down.

Originally posted by cloud102
Well, if SHAZAM couldn't, then MAYBE Odin might not be able to.

You do know that even before The Marvel family was introduced to DC comics, they had TRUE invulnerability. NOTHING could harm them. It's been that way for a long time, until they calmed that down.

Yeah I know...
It was that way until they figured they have to do actually interesting characters

You can still have a powerful character made interesting. Look at current Thor title.

Originally posted by cloud102
You can still have a powerful character made interesting. Look at current Thor title.

Yeah but he is far from being totally invulnerable.
Actually I don't think that such thing exists...Anyway I gotta go.
I stick to my opinion with Thor wining 6,5/10...
Have fun...

I didn't say he was totally invulnerable, just really, really powerful. Actually, Rune Thor's story was damn right awesome. And he was Skyfather Plus.

I still say this is close.

Originally posted by Mindset
Of course he thinks

Doubt that

Originally posted by cloud102
I didn't say he was totally invulnerable, just really, really powerful. Actually, Rune Thor's story was damn right awesome. And he was Skyfather Plus.

I still say this is close.

THat's why it lasted for 6 books only. It's difficult to write such a character when you want him to interfere with your mainstream Earth and he has such a powerset.
anyway... close it is...
goodnight

Actually, SHAZAM sold into the MILLIONS. Outselling even Superman. Back in the day. The love for Captain Marvel is there. Just need a good writer.

Originally posted by cloud102
Again, just because he can do A, doesn't mean he can do B. They are 2 different sources and not the same. Besides, Adam has more than one magical attack, backed by the gods that give it to him. Unless there has been cases of people at Thor's level of energy absorption ( which is one of the highest in comics) failing to absorbs his magic energy I don't see anything wrong with claiming that.

thor wins. handily. he doesn't need magic. and the idea that he wouldn't be tagging adam while at the same time seeing him repeatedly tag the duo of warlock and SILVER SURFER is, to say the least, absurd.

Originally posted by kgkg
Unless there has been cases of people at Thor's level of energy absorption ( which is one of the highest in comics) failing to absorbs his magic energy I don't see anything wrong with claiming that.

SHAZAM the being who gave Adam his powers couldn't do it, so I doubt Thor can.

Originally posted by cloud102
SHAZAM the being who gave Adam his powers couldn't do it, so I doubt Thor can. Shazam couldn't absorb his lightning?

Originally posted by Mindset
Shazam couldn't absorb his lightning?

SHAZAM couldn't harm or take away his power. When SHAZAM BFR Adam, it left him in a weakened state. Probably Thor's only real hope.

Ok...how about my question?

Adam's fight with Synn. Didn't even get knocked out.

http://img46.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=36045_onimar2.jpg
http://img24.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=e83cf_onimar3.jpg
http://img140.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=c60f8_onimar4.jpg
http://img136.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=6466f_onimar6.jpg
http://img18.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=3fc7d_onimar7.jpg

Originally posted by Enyalus
Lol...exactly. Thor would either control it, or block it with Mjolnir.

And as for Thor needing his hammer to beat Superman....that's not proven, either. He's beaten Hulk & Thing without it. And a Mjolnir-wielding Loki + Fenris Wolf without it.

...Plus soloing Durok.

None of those guys is equivalent to Superman. Supes presents an entirely different challenge that he cannot overcome without the hammer and being in a blind rage.

Originally posted by leonidas
thor wins. handily. he doesn't need magic. and the idea that he wouldn't be tagging adam while at the same time seeing him repeatedly tag the duo of warlock and SILVER SURFER is, to say the least, absurd.

If you bring up the infinity watch, he had the power gem, and they jobbed heavily. He has never demonstrated the reaction speed that superman levelers have.

And Surfer always uses his speed, am I right?

As for the SHAZAM bolt being stopped by Thor..........no idea. There are good arguements either way. If Adam is dumb enough to just spam it, then yeah, Thor might stop it or use his hammer on it.

Oh wait. You forgot. He's in WARRIOR MADNESS. He's not smart enough to use the full powers of his hammer due to his berserk status.

In his normal state of mind, this is a better fight, because he will use the full abilities of his hammer. But using it as a club while berserk? that's a huge loss of abilities in exchange for rational thought and a strength/durability upgrade, AND NO SPEED.

A yes or a no will suffice.

No, he couldn't take away his lightning or magic.

But reviewing some scans, Dr. Fate was also unable to do it. He needed Hourman's help to create a time tunnel to redirect his lightning. But, I also don't think they were in the same time, so that could be a factor.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
None of those guys is equivalent to Superman.
You're right. Amped Loki and Durok would both beat Supes.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
As for the SHAZAM bolt being stopped by Thor..........no idea. There are good arguements either way. If Adam is dumb enough to just spam it, then yeah, Thor might stop it or use his hammer on it.

Oh wait. You forgot. He's in WARRIOR MADNESS. He's not smart enough to use the full powers of his hammer due to his berserk status.

In his normal state of mind, this is a better fight, because he will use the full abilities of his hammer. But using it as a club while berserk? that's a huge loss of abilities in exchange for rational thought and a strength/durability upgrade, AND NO SPEED.
Might want to read the arc in question before commenting on it. Considering he already did block energy blasts in Warrior Madness...at nearly point blank range.


And he has speed, and its been shown before. He can strike at light speed, even. Now please, stop the bullshit.

Originally posted by Enyalus

You're right. Amped Loki and Durok would both beat Supes.


Might want to read the arc in question before commenting on it. Considering he already did block energy blasts in Warrior Madness...at nearly point blank range.


And he has speed, and its been shown before. He can strike at light speed, even. Now please, stop the bullshit.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
If you bring up the infinity watch, he had the power gem, and they jobbed heavily. He has never demonstrated the reaction speed that superman levelers have.

nor has a superman leveller ever won a battle against thor using his speed. in ANY COMBAT where thor has gone against a superman-esque character, he has ALWAYS held his own. hyperion. gladiator. warlock. surfer. count nefaria. during the reiging, a one-armed thor, who was severely weakened and ready for the odinsleep, effortlessly met thialfi's blitz:

http://img19.imageshack.us/my.php?image=thialfi.jpg

here agin, hela comments on his speed--it beggars description and thor himself says he can move at the speed of lightning. like adam also stated WHILE in direct combat with thor:

http://img19.imageshack.us/my.php?image=helan.jpg

and thor never had the gem when he singlehandedly almost killed adam and ss simultaneously. claim pis all you'd like. when that is the last resort in any argument, your argument has failed.

and as enyalus has said--he used the powers of his hammer many times in that arc.

don't know if he could absorb the lightning. doesn't matter. thor wins.

Originally posted by cloud102
SHAZAM the being who gave Adam his powers couldn't do it, so I doubt Thor can. Shazam failed to absorb his lighting really? When

Originally posted by cloud102
Adam's fight with Synn. Didn't even get knocked out.

http://img46.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=36045_onimar2.jpg
http://img24.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=e83cf_onimar3.jpg
http://img140.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=c60f8_onimar4.jpg
http://img136.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=6466f_onimar6.jpg
http://img18.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=3fc7d_onimar7.jpg This suppose to show what really? Synn was going H2H and owning Black Adam. We don't even know how powerful he is using only H2H but either way he was winning even in that department.

When he actually used his powers he disposed of Adam easily.

Originally posted by cloud102
SHAZAM the being who gave Adam his powers couldn't do it, so I doubt Thor can.

Thats like Galactus not being able to absorb Surfer's blasts.

Originally posted by kgkg
This suppose to show what really? Synn was going H2H and owning Black Adam. We don't even know how powerful he is using only H2H but either way he was winning even in that department.

When he actually used his powers he disposed of Adam easily.

It shows Black Adam's durability against someone who was composed of Nth Metal. Onimar was really powerful, team buster, yet couldn't fully dispose of Adam.

Let me ask anyone here a question, because I'm not necessarily an expert, but when was the last time we have seen Adam knocked out under physical or magical attacks? Not saying he has never, but I can't think of a instance, without circumstances.

Originally posted by cloud102
Let me ask anyone here a question, because I'm not necessarily an expert, but when was the last time we have seen Adam knocked out under physical or magical attacks? Not saying he has never, but I can't think of a instance, without circumstances.
Thrown bus. Black Mary.

Wasn't fully powered.

Originally posted by cloud102
Wasn't fully powered.
I know.

Originally posted by cloud102
If he can actually tag him. How can't he hit him?Originally posted by cloud102
SHAZAM Billy had the will to hold up the planet in SHAZAM maxi series. That doesn't translate to much on the battlefield.

Originally posted by cloud102
So, Adam took on Alan Scott, MM, Billy, and a slew of 2nd tier characters. Not bad. I still think this is close. Marvel's Family's durability is insane. It was very impressive, but he really didn't put any of the bigger threats down. Originally posted by Charmander
Teth front kicks him through the sternum. Not at all. Thor was an absolute beast and his hammer would knock Adam's teeth out.Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Blood and Thunder Thor is not going to his hammer's full power. He'll fight like a brain dead retard.

He may win, he may not. But Adam despite being in rage mode, won't fight as stupidly. Not to mention the speed edge. Thor was winning. If you consider easily crushing both the Surfer and warlock to be retarded then that's on you.

"nor has a superman leveller ever won a battle against thor using his speed. in ANY COMBAT where thor has gone against a superman-esque character, he has ALWAYS held his own. hyperion. gladiator. warlock. surfer. count nefaria. during the reiging, a one-armed thor, who was severely weakened and ready for the odinsleep, effortlessly met thialfi's blitz:"

Surfer is the only one of those guys that Superman would not crush easily.

Glads never uses his speed. And the reiging? That was an amped Thor.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
He's going to use it like a club. That's nowhere near as dangerous as using it's true power.

Adam is faster and won't be fighting in a blind rage. I'm not giving him the win outright, but Thor is at a DISADVANTAGE in this mode. Adam was fighting in a blind rage. Did you read ww 3?

Originally posted by leonidas
nor has a superman leveller ever won a battle against thor using his speed. in ANY COMBAT where thor has gone against a superman-esque character, he has ALWAYS held his own. hyperion. gladiator. warlock. surfer. count nefaria. during the reiging, a one-armed thor, who was severely weakened and ready for the odinsleep, effortlessly met thialfi's blitz:

http://img19.imageshack.us/my.php?image=thialfi.jpg

here agin, hela comments on his speed--it beggars description and thor himself says he can move at the speed of lightning. like adam also stated WHILE in direct combat with thor:

http://img19.imageshack.us/my.php?image=helan.jpg

and thor never had the gem when he singlehandedly almost killed adam and ss simultaneously. claim pis all you'd like. when that is the last resort in any argument, your argument has failed.

and as enyalus has said--he used the powers of his hammer many times in that arc.

don't know if he could absorb the lightning. doesn't matter. thor wins. Nicely done.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
"nor has a superman leveller ever won a battle against thor using his speed. in ANY COMBAT where thor has gone against a superman-esque character, he has ALWAYS held his own. hyperion. gladiator. warlock. surfer. count nefaria. during the reiging, a one-armed thor, who was severely weakened and ready for the odinsleep, effortlessly met thialfi's blitz:"

Surfer is the only one of those guys that Superman would not crush easily.

Glads never uses his speed. And the reiging? That was an amped Thor. Supes wouldn't crush any of them. You need to support your argument with reasoning to get the point across. Glads has used his speed against Thor as well.

Thor was extremely weakened and about to enter the odinsleep and still pressed on.

Context.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
"nor has a superman leveller ever won a battle against thor using his speed. in ANY COMBAT where thor has gone against a superman-esque character, he has ALWAYS held his own. hyperion. gladiator. warlock. surfer. count nefaria. during the reiging, a one-armed thor, who was severely weakened and ready for the odinsleep, effortlessly met thialfi's blitz:"

Surfer is the only one of those guys that Superman would not crush easily.

huh? "easily?" i'd give him the majority against hyperion or gladiator or even nefaria. but none of them would be 'easy' wins. warlock would be interesting, imo.



i know, i know--according to you and a couple others NO ONE ever uses speed against thor and no one ever has in the whole history of the character. lucky thor!



what quanchi said.

So, anyone know the answer to my question?

Originally posted by cloud102
So, anyone know the answer to my question? What's your question?

How can ths still be going on? Blood and thunder thor wins this 10/10. Its extremely hilarious that some people actually think that thor will have problems hurting adam

Originally posted by Naija boy
How can ths still be going on? Blood and thunder thor wins this 10/10. Its extremely hilarious that some people actually think that thor will have problems hurting adam

Wow, you have some mighty fine evidence there. Still close.

Originally posted by cloud102
Wow, you have some mighty fine evidence there. Still close.
Yeah and im sure showing examples of BA getting his ass kicked or claiming "He takes on the JSA" counts as evidence doesnt it? Obviously its close in ur own head but there a sharp difference between ur imagination and reality.(at least the reality in this context)

Originally posted by Naija boy
Yeah and im sure showing examples of BA getting his ass kicked or claiming "He takes on the JSA" counts as evidence doesnt it? Obviously its close in ur own head but there a sharp difference between ur imagination and reality.(at least the reality in this context)

Right, so nothing at all. Thanks for playing.

Originally posted by cloud102
Right, so nothing at all. Thanks for playing.

Yeah aside WW3 BA being hurt by much weaker attacks than what Thor is capable of producing. Of course that probably isnt "evidence" by ur definition is it? lmao

Sure he was hurt, but he wasn't out. He's survived a lot worse.

Hell, Billy who is equal to Adam was able to take on the Spectre for a short amount of time until he was amped. Spectre > Thor.

Hey, hey, hey.

Cloud, Naija, settle down. I like you both, but I will butt hurt you if this keeps up.

uhuh

He started it!

Originally posted by cloud102
Sure he was hurt, but he wasn't out. He's survived a lot worse.

Hell, Billy who is equal to Adam was able to take on the Spectre for a short amount of time until he was amped. Spectre > Thor.

This post is so inane and retarded i dont know where to begin. For one if such attacks are able to hurt him then clearly a continuous onslaught of greater attacks will put him down no problems.

And now to the part that really defies logic. How the hell does logic which says that " Billy took on spectre for a short time and he is equal to Adam and since spectre is greater than thor this counts as evidence of why adam will beat thor" register as even remotely valid in ur mind? That is honestly one of the most laughable and absurd statements ive read on KMC in a while. In DOV spectre mauled billy badly before he got amped. HEck the ON panel description was that Billy was like a parapelegic child trying to go toe toe with a heavyweight prizefighter. And somehow want to use that to validate Adam beating thor in this state? Lets see that work another way, Thor has taken on the celestials for a longer period of time than billy did spectre and performed way better. Since billy is equal to Adam and the celestials are far above both of them then the fact that thor "took them on" somehow helps prove the case that thor is superior to Adam amirite?

No need for insults, man. If you don't agree, fine, but I didn't come to insult. I even asked a question, which you have never answered. Who has put Adam down with magic or blunt force? I have even given examples of Adam taking on force from Synn on more than one occasion. Taken on the JSA, Billy SHAZAM, etc... and why do you keep saying Thor would just throw an onslaught of blows at Adam, when Adam has PROVEN his speed. Both Adam and Billy have tagged Flash's in their lifetime and has actually used super speed. Plus Adam's Wisdom has helped him out in the past as well.



Because for most purposes, Billy is equal to Adam. Pretty much always has been since they were created. Hell, Adam harmed Spectre in John's JSA, so I'm betting he can harm Thor, who is weaker. Billy has also taken on magic attacks generated through 5 D Energy. It's hard to get more powerful than that in terms of actual magic.

So, let me ask again, when has Adam been taken down? Find some examples and I'll concede.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
"nor has a superman leveller ever won a battle against thor using his speed. in ANY COMBAT where thor has gone against a superman-esque character, he has ALWAYS held his own. hyperion. gladiator. warlock. surfer. count nefaria. during the reiging, a one-armed thor, who was severely weakened and ready for the odinsleep, effortlessly met thialfi's blitz:"

Surfer is the only one of those guys that Superman would not crush easily.

Glads never uses his speed. And the reiging? That was an amped Thor.


this post is hilarious, I give supes the majority over hyperion and that alone wont be easy.

and thor wins this 10/10

Originally posted by cloud102
No need for insults, man. If you don't agree, fine, but I didn't come to insult. I even asked a question, which you have never answered. Who has put Adam down with magic or blunt force? I have even given examples of Adam taking on force from Synn on more than one occasion. Taken on the JSA, Billy SHAZAM, etc... and why do you keep saying Thor would just throw an onslaught of blows at Adam, when Adam has PROVEN his speed. Both Adam and Billy have tagged Flash's in their lifetime and has actually used super speed. Plus Adam's Wisdom has helped him out in the past as well.


I didnt insult u. I commented on the absurdity of the post u made nothing more. Adam has been hurt by both magic and blunt force before. Him not being killed or koed in a one on one fight which quite frankly im almost sure he has(ill have to recheck all his battles aainst CM) really would have more to do with the actual length of the fight. It has little bearings on his durability because we know fully well that he CAN be hurt by attacks of this level (even weaker ones) and it follows that if he is affected by those attacks, its only a matter of how many are needed to down him. Hence the belief as to whether he can be harmed or koed by thor make absolutely no sense whatsoever. You showed Adam getting punched into spae by Synn which is fairly impressive but nothing that puts him physically on the same level as B and T thor who considering he was actually getting owned in that battle. Taking on Billy Shazam and the JSA really has no bearings here without proper u providing and highlighting the parts of those fights that would be relevant to this situation. And yes thor would tag Adam repeatedly, mainly because thor has very good reactions and refexes as well as the fact that its more likely for Adam to first come out trying to outbrawl thor.(Especially with it being WW3 Adam)







You missed the point entirely. That line of logic in and of itself was entirely faulty and made no sense at all. Billy was manhandled by the specctre and could have been killed at any time by him. That is not an instance that can then be used to justify either he or blackadam defeating someone (especially not B and T thor). As i showed in my previous post, the logic can easily be applied to thor or any other character and hence make the entire "debate" irrational. Further i never claimed that BA couldnt harm thor just that thor could inflict much greater damage (though he did nothing more than superficially damage the spectre). Further id like to see scans of the attacks captain marvel took from 5d imps because im almost sure that they were not attacks meant to actually kill him(if not hed be dead).

Adam has been hurt and defeated on numerous occasions by attacks much weaker that what this version of thor is capable of dishing out. Thats all that really matters. Further by continuously comparing him to captaon marvel u defeat ur own argument since Cap marvel CAN and HAS been hurt and koed before by blunt force and other attacks below the level of what B and T thor can dish out.

What are these attacks? Adam has withstood attacks greater than the ones you are referring to, including a magical bullet designed IN THE ROCK OF ETERNITY. Yet, he healed directly after that. JSA needed a plot device to actually take him down and an all out Superman failed to even harm Adam in any signifcant way. Please give me some examples. I have no problem admitting I'm wrong.

Onimar Synn is a great example, because of the source of his powers. I'd rank him in the realm of Thanos, myself.



He was surviving the attacks, yes. I never said Spectre couldn't kill him, but the fact that Billy AND Adam have survived the Spectre shjows how extremely durable they are.


In the instance you are asking of, Billy ran through firestorm generated by 5 Dimensional magic. I believe this was V&V, but some of the scans did not work. Also note that no other hero could survivr such an attack. This was a possesed Johnny Thunder, BTW.

I take that back, I'm pretty sure it was the Ultra-Humanite arc. UHM had many people possesed.

Originally posted by cloud102
What are these attacks? Adam has withstood attacks greater than the ones you are referring to, including a magical bullet designed IN THE ROCK OF ETERNITY. Yet, he healed directly after that. JSA needed a plot device to actually take him down and an all out Superman failed to even harm Adam in any signifcant way. Please give me some examples. I have no problem admitting I'm wrong.


A bullet being esigned in the rock of eternity isnt enough in and of itself to get an accurate guage on its power. Also which fight against superman are u talking about? I sincerely hope u r not claiming that BA was able to take supes best shots like they were nothing. IIRC supes and BA have never had any prolonged conclusive fights and in none of them has BA ever been unaffected by supes best attacks. By "siginificant harm" do u mean lasting damage? because due to the shrot length of their fights its expected that no lasting harm would have been done. Infact going by that im sure BA did no significant damage to supes either. Now i know BA has survived some impressive attacks but thats the key word he "survived" them, he was still affected by them. THe instances im talking about are his being affected by attacks from the likes of Superman, Captain Marvel,Captain Nazi,Power girl Jay garrick,Martian Manhunter etc and other such top tiers all of whom are below B and T thor in regards to damage output.





IIRc the spectre was trying to drain the magic out of Billy first and not simply to obliterate him. IT was made very clear on panel that the difference in their power was so much that spectre could have easily obliterated billy whenever he wanted to. Therefore its not as great a durability feat as u are trying to make it out to be since the spectres goal was to first drain all his magic and thats why billy survived as long as he did.

ALso going thru a firestorm created by 5g magic is not at all the same as taking a direct blast from a 5d imp. Was anything shown to indicate give the actual strength of the firestorm itself? who were the other heroes present that couldnt survive it? Further was it stated clearly that the other heroes couldnt survive it or is this simply an assumption of urs? A proper assesement of the scenario can be made only after the proper context is provided.

Hey cloud, you know that stone that hit Billy when BA attacked him, it was from DOV.

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l54/Markymark_016/Untitled-Scanned-20.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Black%20Adam/JSA13.jpg


It doesn't have anything to do with this thread, but we were talking about it in another one.

The bullett example is just one of the examples, Adam has withstood magical artifacts. Showing how extremely durable Adam is to magic attacks as a whole.

In the Superman fight I'm referring to, BA didn't take him too seriously. Superman landed quite a few good blows, but it did nothing. The fight wasn't long, but then again, Billy was able to take him apart with a couple of blows. Even Superman admitted that Billy had the upper hand, because of MAGIC.

As for your examples, Power Girl has proven to be little threat to Adam. If you look at the fights, Billy's only prayer in one of the fights was to remove his power source. After that, Billy has pretty much stalemated Adam. Captain Nazi failed many times against Adam as well. I want someone who has actually knocked him out in combat. Without PIS or cirumstances.



Where was this? Looking at the scans (small, but somewhat readable), Spectre landed 3 tough blows to Billy. Spectre then said, "Lets finish this!" and Billy kept on coming at him for a time, until Enchantress could amp him. That's also quite a feat for Spectre NOT to drain his powers. Same with SHAZAM in Black Adam's origin. From what I understand the only beings ABLE to take away Adam's or Billy's powers are the Gods that grant him them in the first place. But it depends on the writer, I guess, because SHAZAM was able to do this in the last JSA arc.




It's pretty good showing, considering that pretty much all the heroes of earth were present. IIRC, Ultra-Humanite effected the minds early on. It was a very powerful energy attack that was through Thunderbolt himself.

Originally posted by Mindset
Hey cloud, you know that stone that hit Billy when BA attacked him, it was from DOV.

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l54/Markymark_016/Untitled-Scanned-20.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Black%20Adam/JSA13.jpg


It doesn't have anything to do with this thread, but we were talking about it in another one.

Good find. I'm not an expert on DOV, so thanks for bringing that to my attention.

Originally posted by cloud102
The bullett example is just one of the examples, Adam has withstood magical artifacts. Showing how extremely durable Adam is to magic attacks as a whole.


In the bullet example wasnt he still hurt by it? If so then it does nothing to support this ur false idea of near complete invulnerability uve been advocating for BA




Im absolutely sure that there is no fight in which BA has gone unaffected by supermans blows. Once again please clarify what u mean by "significant harm" because if u are talking about lasting damage then its not applicable because o how short the fight was and im sure that BA did no such damage to supes either.

Powergirl has actually been able to hurt Adam with her HV and punches. Billy has come out looking better than him in some of their fights as well hurting him greatly. Captain Nazi has also been able to affect him with his attacks. The same goes for superman, Jaygarrick Martian manhunter and others on that level. Hence to claim that this version Thor will be unable to really harm him is asinine. I dont need to show BA getting knocked out for us to know he can be harmed. His being knocked out in a fight is mainlydependent on the length of the fight. However the fact that during battles he has been hurt numerous times by people considerably below B and T thor in regards to damage output indicates that he will be hurt badly by B and T thors attacks and it follows that with enough of those attacks he will get knocked out.




The spectre repeatedly tells billy during their fight that he should simply give himself up and come quietly. this is because he wants to drain out all the raw magic inside billy. While Billy does struggle, the spectre continuously tell him of the futility of his efforts. At that point in time the spectre idnt want to obliterate billy but rather wanted to take him so he could start draining his power. Hence the reason i said its hardly as a good a durability feat as ur making it sound since the spectres intentions at that point in time are what caused billy to survive. At the point where the spectre says "Lets end this" and is about to get serious enchantress had already begun amping billy.

Also the Spectre WAS able to take away billys powers. He eventually started "bleeding him dry" of his magical powers.



Once again was it said that only captain marvel could survive it or its conjecture on ur part?

LOL! I never said Adam or Billy were completely invulnerable. What I DID say was PRE-CRISIS Adam and Billy had true invulnerability. Both compatants could land blows on each other for HOURS and not feel a thing. Black Adam took the combined hits of Billy, Mary, and Marvel Jr at once and he just laughed at it. I can send you the scans, if you want.



What I mean is that Adam wasn't hurt by them. I'm pretty sure it's in the respect thread. Give a look. From what I can see, Adam even turned his BACK on Superman. Earlier, Superman even stated that he had no problem going all out, because for a foe like Adam, you have to.



I'm not seeing that. From the scans I'm reviwing, Power Girl and even Jay Garrick couldn't put him down. When Dr. Fate came through with his wife, even he admitted he would have little effect on Adam. In one of Adam's fights with the JSA, Dr. Fate needed Hourman's help to create a time funnel to channel Adam's lightning. Again, I'm NOT saying Adam can't be effected by blows, but it's going to take a lot more than hitting to take him out of the fight.



Yet, he doesn't give up and holds on until Enchantress can amp him. It's a good feat, seeing as Billy is bruised and battered, yet still keeps on coming.



It was shown, because nobody had the power to stand up to such an attack. Cap then volunteers to do it, killing Johnny Thunderbolt. Everyone from Superman, Martian Manhunter, Flash, JSA, JLA, etc... were there. Billy did not go down as well.

It's Lightning strikes #33-37. I'm trying to find working scans, so I have a better picture of it. Here is the final 2 scans from the respect thread by Thorion.

http://img147.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=d7265_capimp3.jpg

http://img141.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=200ce_capimp4.jpg

Originally posted by cloud102
LOL! I never said Adam or Billy were completely invulnerable. What I DID say was PRE-CRISIS Adam and Billy had true invulnerability. Both compatants could land blows on each other for HOURS and not feel a thing. Black Adam took the combined hits of Billy, Mary, and Marvel Jr at once and he just laughed at it. I can send you the scans, if you want.

I know what u said. Thats why i said "near" complete invlunerability. Because uve been making claims that thor wont be able to put Adam down and the likes. These claims are in turn supported by nothing. This is a guy whose face was melted by martian vision.



Ive seen the fight and that logic doesnt fly at all. There may have been no visible injuries and such to Adam but that was because it was mainly blunt force trauma. There werent any visible injuries to superman either. You cant suddenly claim that superman was unhurt by BAs punches and neither can u claim that Ba was unhurt by supermans. If either of them had taken enough of the others blows in that fight they would have been koed.



Dr fate could have little effect on Adam with his spells and such. Thats cuz of his magical resistance. Thor will be using energy attacks and blunt force trauma which we have seen do affect Adam greatly. In addition these are attacks that will be much more powerful than those we have seen affect him already. Given enough of those attacks he will be koed since he isnt completely invulnerable



Its a good feat but nowhere out of the range of the likes of thor and superman let alone above them. Not even close to what u were initially making it out to be



I will wait for the scans.

I never said he was near complete invulnerable. That doesn't even make sense. That's the description of Adam's invulnerability. He is near invulnerable. Both Adam and Billy have seen it all from even a Tesseract bomb capable of turning Billy INSIDE OUT. I'd claim Thor as near invulnerable too, but The Marvel family has some of the best durability in comics. Period.



That's MY definition of unphased or unaffected by Superman's attacks. If Adam was effected, he wouldn't have turned his back on Superman.





In your opinion, of course. Neither Superman or Black Adam have ever went the distance, so you don't know for sure. You have nothing to back that up. However, as history has shown with Adam and Billy (who is pretty much Superman's equal in strength), Adam has went the distance with Billy and has never been koed by Billy to my knowledge. If you think so, please SHOW me some scans.



Again, show me an issue where Adam has been Koed. I have no doubt that they will have an effect on Adam, but that doesn't mean he'd be koed. While I have shown a villain above top tier lay into Adam and Adam came back for more.



I never said it was out of the realm for Thor or Superman. I just said it was a good feat, which you agreed.



I'll see if they have the book at the store, because the first 2 scans don't work.

Originally posted by jltruth
this post is hilarious, I give supes the majority over hyperion and that alone wont be easy.

and thor wins this 10/10

Originally posted by cloud102
I never said he was near complete invulnerable. That doesn't even make sense. That's the description of Adam's invulnerability. He is near invulnerable. Both Adam and Billy have seen it all from even a Tesseract bomb capable of turning Billy INSIDE OUT. I'd claim Thor as near invulnerable too, but The Marvel family has some of the best durability in comics. Period.



For u to say that thor ant put him down or will find it hard to ko him, it means that u believe he is nearly completely invulnerable because this is the only way that such an idea is even remotely possible. Frankly it is supported by nothing. None of the durability feats of BA and Billy are beyond those of Thor or supes and surfer flat out has better durability feats than they do. To then say that thor cant put him down is simply ridiculous.




Adam engaged supes fully in that fight. He took him very very seriously. Adam turning his back on supes towards the end of the fight was to indicatte his lack of a desire to fight toe to toe anymore not some false superiority. Honestly its absurd to think he was unaffected by supes attacks, and going by that line of logic supoes was unaffected by his as well.



Yes Billy and Adam have had prolonged fights in which neithe hve been koed. However that does not suddenly make them immune to being koed by physical force. That is a no limit fallacy and hence faulty logic. Neither billy nor Adam have complete invulnerability which means that given enough blows or attacks they WILL go down. Hence its not my opinion but rather a fact that if Adam had received enough punches from superman he CERTAINLY WOULD have gone down. BA is a character without even up to 100 appearances, to think that just because he might not have been koed in a physical confrontation indicates that he is somehow immune to being taken out via such attacks is extremely fallacious reasoning. Further Captain Marvel himself who u have constantly equated Adam to HAS been koed via physical force before which further negates ur argument.



Frankly i dont need to show anything. IF u agree that B and T thors blows will have an effect on Adam then him being koed is only a matter of time. Further his energy attacks which are far more powerful tha Martian vision will put Adam in a very bad state. U showing Adam taking a few punches from Onimar synn without being koed in no way shows he cant be koed by punches. It doesnt even come close to showing it.

Originally posted by cloud102
Who wins?

B&T Thor had the PG, not mention he was in WM mode to boot, he'd house BA!

Originally posted by lordraiden
B&T Thor had the PG, not mention he was in WM mode to boot, he'd house BA! I don't think he has the power gem in this thread.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I don't think he has the power gem in this thread.

He quoted: " Thor from Blood & Thunder"! Thor from B&T had the PG! So i'm assuming that's what he meant!

Originally posted by lordraiden
He quoted: " Thor from Blood & Thunder"! Thor from B&T had the PG! So i'm assuming that's what he meant! Thor also didn't acquire the gem until the last few issues. If Thor has the gem it's spite so why would he be given the gem?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thor also didn't acquire the gem until the last few issues. If Thor has the gem it's spite so why would he be given the gem?

Ah, actually, he aquired it early on in the story, bout the first quarter! And as I stated before, he said Thor from B&T, I took that to be WM Thor with the PG. So, until he comes out and says otherwise, I will revalue my position on the battle then.

Originally posted by lordraiden
Ah, actually, he aquired it early on in the story, bout the first quarter! And as I stated before, he said Thor from B&T, I took that to be WM Thor with the PG. So, until he comes out and says otherwise, I will revalue my position on the battle then. He didn't get it early on. With the gem it's spite.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He didn't get it early on. With the gem it's spite.

Well, how bout you come back to me in what issue he got it in, and how far along in the story it was, rather than us second guessing each other, and save me the trouble of digging up my collection ;-)! If you believe it's spite, then you need to ask the op, as he's the only one who can clear this up.

In fact, i'll save you the trouble, it was in The Mighty Thor #469, which was part 5 in the 13 parter! Like I said, it was earlier on in the piece, not at the end! The first half of the story was Thor going AWOL and then aquiring the PG when he knocked it out of Drax's belly and he spewed it out and Thor got hold of it, which as I stated earlier, was only part five in the storyline! He had the PG for the last eight issues of the story.

Originally posted by lordraiden
Well, how bout you come back to me in what issue he got it in, and how far along in the story it was, rather than us second guessing each other, and save me the trouble of digging up my collection ;-)! If you believe it's spite, then you need to ask the op, as he's the only one who can clear this up.

Thor gets the PG in part 5 of B&T. There are 13 parts to that storyline...

Originally posted by lordraiden
Well, how bout you come back to me in what issue he got it in, and how far along in the story it was, rather than us second guessing each other, and save me the trouble of digging up my collection ;-)! If you believe it's spite, then you need to ask the op, as he's the only one who can clear this up. Ok the middle. Either way he was contained in pure force in issue 10 I believe. The last three issues he was contained and not out running amok.


I'd like to hear your opinion without the power gem.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Thor gets the PG in part 5 of B&T. There are 13 parts to that storyline...

I know, I just quoted that and broke it down five minates ago in my last post, but thanx for putting it straight!

Originally posted by quanchi112
Ok the middle. Either way he was contained in pure force in issue 10 I believe. The last three issues he was contained and not out running amok.


I'd like to hear your opinion without the power gem.

Without the PG, it'd be harder, but not impossible, as Thor does have alot more abstract powers than BA, and even SS quoted his mallet, Mjolnir holds more power than his PC, so Thor definatly has the power to put him down, or incapacitate him, whether or not he gets the chance, thats the issue!

Originally posted by lordraiden
Without the PG, it'd be harder, but not impossible, as Thor does have alot more abstract powers than BA, and even SS quoted his mallet, Mjolnir holds more power than his PC, so Thor definatly has the power to put him down, or incapacitate him, whether or not he gets the chance, thats the issue! So who wins the majority?

Originally posted by quanchi112
So who wins the majority?

I'm tempted to say split, but i'll give the maj to Thor, 6.5/10!

Still trying to hunt down those images for Naija, BTW. This proves Marvel's durability is superior to even Clark.

Originally posted by cloud102
Still trying to hunt down those images for Naija, BTW. This proves Marvel's durability is superior to even Clark.

Marvel's durability? I haven't seen anything shown that puts CM above Superman in durability!

Originally posted by lordraiden
Marvel's durability? I haven't seen anything shown that puts CM above Superman in durability!

Both are extremely durable. I'd give both of them a nod above Thor, but Cap showed that he could stand up to 5-D energy in Lightning Strikes. Noted that no other hero could withstand such an attack. I believe Superman and others like WW and MM were present as well.

Originally posted by cloud102
Both are extremely durable. I'd give both of them a nod above Thor, but Cap showed that he could stand up to 5-D energy in Lightning Strikes. Noted that no other hero could withstand such an attack. I believe Superman and others like WW and MM were present as well.

Yeah, but your forgetting the one big difference between CM & Superman: Magic. One is highly effected by it, the other is not! I'm not talking bout durability in taking on magic. Have you read the last issue of DOTNG, where DS with the soulfire was taking on the source?