Thor/Beta ray bill vs Surfer/Superman

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carver9
Classic thor.

Charmander
Current Surfer

/thread

Raoul
Team 2.

Slaanesh
team 2

Enyalus
Thor's going to beat Surfer before Superman beats BRB.


Team One.

carver9
Originally posted by Enyalus
Thor's going to beat Surfer before Superman beats BRB.


Team One.

Can supes beat Beta ray bill? confused

Hell, can surfer beat Beta ray bill?

If we go by hitting power, beta ray bill has team 2 in spades.

I wonder if anyone on team 2 can go through the same mauling galactus herald went through from beta ray bill.

Enyalus
Originally posted by carver9
Can supes beat Beta ray bill? confused

Hell, can surfer beat Beta ray bill?

If we go by hitting power, beta ray bill has team 2 in spades.

I wonder if anyone on team 2 can go through the same mauling galactus herald went through from beta ray bill.
...That's why I chose Team One to win.

Charmander
Originally posted by carver9
Can supes beat Beta ray bill? confused

Hell, can surfer beat Beta ray bill?

If we go by hitting power, beta ray bill has team 2 in spades.

I wonder if anyone on team 2 can go through the same mauling galactus herald went through from beta ray bill. Hitting power trumps all of course.

That Surfer and Superman always standing still waiting to be hit.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by carver9
Can supes beat Beta ray bill? confused

Hell, can surfer beat Beta ray bill?

If we go by hitting power, beta ray bill has team 2 in spades.

I wonder if anyone on team 2 can go through the same mauling galactus herald went through from beta ray bill. Neither Surfer nor Superman may be able to sustain the cosmic beatdown that BRB gave Stardust without getting knocked out... but whether either of them will let him do so in a straight-up fight is a different story.

Enyalus
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Neither Surfer nor Superman may be able to sustain the cosmic beatdown that BRB gave Stardust without getting knocked out... but whether either of them will let him do so in a straight-up fight is a different story.
Okay.

But srsly, Team One wins. stick out tongue

carver9
Originally posted by Charmander
Hitting power trumps all of course.

That Surfer and Superman always standing still waiting to be hit.

Never said that they were going to just stand there but they will get hit and since beta ray bill is the type that tends to not hold back he would be hitting them with planet destroying hits the entire time and we seen how star dust who is as durable if not more durable than anyone in this fight stood up to them. Has supes or surfer ever been hit by a planet destroying physical attack before? confused

Charmander
Originally posted by carver9
Never said that they were going to just stand there but they will get hit and since beta ray bill is the type that tends to not hold back he would be hitting them with planet destroying hits the entire time and we seen how star dust who is as durable if not more durable than anyone in this fight stood up to them. Has supes or surfer ever been hit by a planet destroying physical attack before? confused They will get hit because Beta doesn't hold back and hits with planet destroying force?
I don't get your rational...

Tenebrous for Surfer. Can't recall anything for Superman.

Also, Stardust isn't more durable than Surfer. She just reforms (although her durability seems pretty high still).

carver9
Originally posted by Charmander
They will get hit because Beta doesn't hold back and hits with planet destroying force?
I don't get your rational...

Tenebrous for Surfer. Can't recall anything for Superman.

Also, Stardust isn't more durable than Surfer. She just reforms (although her durability seems pretty high still).


You do know that surfer was f***** up when tenebrous hit him with that MOON busting attack. sad

His armor was cracked and he was barely able to stand and that was just one physical attack that didnt even destroy the entire moon (which was discovered as being a prison base).

Charmander
Originally posted by carver9
You do know that surfer was f***** up when tenebrous hit him with that MOON busting attack. sad

His armor was cracked and he was barely able to stand and that was just one physical attack that didnt even destroy the entire moon (which was discovered as being a prison base). Ah, so you suppose that Beta Ray Bill hits harder than a full out double hammerfist from someone on Galactus' physical level?

Surfer took more than one attack. How do you think he landed on the prison in the first place?

And I didn't mean it literally that it destroyed a planet, I just used the best example off the top of my head.

carver9
Originally posted by Charmander
Ah, so you suppose that Beta Ray Bill hits harder than a full out double hammerfist from someone on Galactus' physical level?

Surfer took more than one attack. How do you think he landed on the prison in the first place?

And I didn't mean it literally that it destroyed a planet, I just used the best example off the top of my head.

I didnt say that beta ray bill hits harder BUT do you think that tenebrous hit surfer with all of his might (I dont think he did because that base would have been nothing but dust).

It was nothing more than a moon busting attack which sufer was ripped the hell up physically when he got hit by it. I'm not saying that beta ray bill will one shot surfer but being hit by the same type of attacks that beta ray bill was hitting everyone in when he fought star dust will put a serious hurting on surf and supes.

Hell, that attack that beta use that ripped through galactus hull and destroyed it should KILL surfer OR supes and he did the attack instantly (the attack was powerful enough that it made galactus bfr beta).

Charmander
Originally posted by carver9
I didnt say that beta ray bill hits hard BUT do you think that tenebrous hit surfer with all of his might (I dont think he did because that base would have been nothing but dust).

It was nothing more than a moon busting attack which sufer was ripped the hell up physically when he got hit by it. I'm not saying that beta ray bill will one shot surfer but being hit by the same type of attacks that beta ray bill was hitting everyone in when he fought star dust will put a serious hurting on surf and supes.

Hell, that attack that beta use that ripped through galactus hull and destroyed it should KILL surfer OR supes and he did the attack instantly (the attack was powerful enough that it made galactus bfr beta). Terrible logic. You're using collateral damage as a basis for power, when comics don't focus on that. Also, using this logic, a being as strong as Tenebrous would have destroyed the whole prison with a jab. But either way, it was more powerful than the clap that Galactus KO'ed Beta and Stardust (flash KO) with.
But ya, I think that that shot that Tenebrous did was more powerful than Beta can muster, I mean, it's not like it was a soft shot by any means.

Ya, if Surfer and Supes are standing still (after Beta charges them head on). And all it did was put a hole in his armor... something that Thanos has done (with greater results).
And Galactus didn't BFR him. All it did was make Galactus eyebeam him and half a planet. Which killed Alpha. Hell, it barely got Galactus' attention.

OneDumbG0
^ Thanos put a hole in Galactus' armor?

carver9
Originally posted by Charmander
Terrible logic. You're using collateral damage as a basis for power, when comics don't focus on that. Also, using this logic, a being as strong as Tenebrous would have destroyed the whole prison with a jab. But either way, it was more powerful than the clap that Galactus KO'ed Beta and Stardust (flash KO) with.
But ya, I think that that shot that Tenebrous did was more powerful than Beta can muster, I mean, it's not like it was a soft shot by any means.

Ya, if Surfer and Supes are standing still (after Beta charges them head on). And all it did was put a hole in his armor... something that Thanos has done (with greater results).
And Galactus didn't BFR him. All it did was make Galactus eyebeam him and half a planet. Which killed Alpha. Hell, it barely got Galactus' attention.


I agree with the collateral damage thing that you brought up but that was something that you brought up. You're the one using that as a argument as a physical planet destroying feat when you have no proof.

That clap that galactus hit beta ray bill with was more than a physical attack, it lit the entire area up and it was steam coming off of beta and star dust body.

I dont remember saying that supes or surfer would stand still for the attack but bill has a one shot tool that would take either surfer or supes out and that attack destroyed the hull, it was stated on panel.

carver9
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Thanos put a hole in Galactus' armor?

Not to my knowledge.

Enyalus
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Thanos put a hole in Galactus' armor?
Galactus' hull. His ship.

kgkg
Team 2 wins- Speed , Versatility and Surfer can amp Superman here

I also see Superman or Surfer winning a majority against any of the two hammer brothers in a 1v1 setup.

Charmander
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Thanos put a hole in Galactus' armor? He actually destroyed segments of his helmet. While Beta only managed to crack a hole in it.

Originally posted by carver9
I agree with the collateral damage thing that you brought up but that was something that you brought up. You're the one using that as a argument as a physical planet destroying feat when you have no proof.

That clap that galactus hit beta ray bill with was more than a physical attack, it lit the entire area up and it was steam coming off of beta and star dust body.

I dont remember saying that supes or surfer would stand still for the attack but bill has a one shot tool that would take either surfer or supes out and that attack destroyed the hull, it was stated on panel.
My only argument is that Tenebrous hits harder than Beta Ray Bill, and Surfer took what looked like a full on swing from him.
The only way you could be disagreeing with this is by saying that Beta hits harder.

Because it was the attack Hulk does all the time. A sonic clap. You put that much power together and you're going to get shockwaves.

Well, they'd have to stand still for the attack Beta hit Galactus with.
And in one shot? Surfer wasn't out for the attack(s) Tenebrous(Aegis) hit him with, I doubt he'd be out with one shot from Beta.

Hull? Are you talking about Galactus armor?

BTW, what if Surfer hits him a planet destroying blast? Sure he survived a planet destroying, buh wuh abote a blastss???

carver9
Originally posted by Charmander
He actually destroyed segments of his helmet. While Beta only managed to crack a hole in it.


My only argument is that Tenebrous hits harder than Beta Ray Bill, and Surfer took what looked like a full on swing from him.
The only way you could be disagreeing with this is by saying that Beta hits harder.

Because it was the attack Hulk does all the time. A sonic clap. You put that much power together and you're going to get shockwaves.

Well, they'd have to stand still for the attack Beta hit Galactus with.
And in one shot? Surfer wasn't out for the attack(s) Tenebrous(Aegis) hit him with, I doubt he'd be out with one shot from Beta.

Hull? Are you talking about Galactus armor?

BTW, what if Surfer hits him a planet destroying blast? Sure he survived a planet destroying, buh wuh abote a blastss???

If surfer hits him with a planet destroying blast its going to have the same affect that it had on beta before, nothing.

I agree, I know that tenebrous hits harder than beta but when you provide some proof showing that it was more than a planet destroying punch and tenebrous put all of his might into it THEN i would agree.

You use the galactus clap against beta as a low showing when it was plain and clear that it was more than what it appeared. Didnt that clap also bfr them beta and star dust?

Beta damaged the hull which also appeared as galactus armor since he did reform after the attack. I dont know what in the hell it was but its pretty obvious that its more durable than surfer and supes since galactus seen betas attack as a threat.

They wont have to stand still since beta hit the hull immediately. That attack was nothing like the god blast.

kgkg
^I haven't been reading the previous pages but are you trying to argue that Surfer does not have the energy output to put BRB/Thor down? What the f**k?

james2099
Team 1. No one on team 2 can take what BRB will be dishing out, thor and bill can block any attack from surfer and if thor cuts loose ( which on here he will ) then team 2 gets rocked hard. Superman is the weak link here because he goes down with one and only one strike. Even surfer has gone down to thors hammer.

carver9
Originally posted by kgkg
^I haven't been reading the previous pages but are you trying to argue that Surfer does not have the energy output to put BRB/Thor down? What the f**k?

Nope, thats not the argument. This started with me asking has supes or surfer shown that they can take planet destroying hits. Theres no on panel proof showing otherwise that either can. Not energy attacks but physical blows.

I also brought up the fact that beta doesnt hold back and as soon as the fight starts he coming full force with planet destroying hits which should A)make either supes of surfer dizzy as hell or B) just out right knock them the hell out.

If we go by on panel evidence, both have been knocked out by much less. Surfer has been knocked out by tenebrous who did nothing but a moon busting attack (could have been more, going by what I seen) and supes being knocked out also by a moon busting attack (the difference with this is that he flew into the moon which make his feat much less than the surfers).

Charmander
Originally posted by carver9
If surfer hits him with a planet destroying blast its going to have the same affect that it had on beta before, nothing.

I agree, I know that tenebrous hits harder than beta but when you provide some proof showing that it was more than a planet destroying punch and tenebrous put all of his might into it THEN i would agree.

You use the galactus clap against beta as a low showing when it was plain and clear that it was more than what it appeared. Didnt that clap also bfr them beta and star dust?

Beta damaged the hull which also appeared as galactus armor since he did reform after the attack. I dont know what in the hell it was but its pretty obvious that its more durable than surfer and supes since galactus seen betas attack as a threat.

They wont have to stand still since beta hit the hull immediately. That attack was nothing like the god blast. He didn't get hit by a planet destroying blast. If you want to play the dumb game, I can too... except mine is forced.

I don't have to provide proof it was a planet destroying attack. You just said that Tenebrous hits harder than Beta... no expression
Also, again, if Tenebrous even jabbed, he would have enough power to destroy a planet. Use some common sense.
All his might for that sort of attack. You hit someone with a double hammerfist while you want to destroy them, you're not fooling around... especially when you pull back all the way.

I never used it as a low showing. I said it was less powerful than what Tenebrous does (assuming they're the same strength, and being that a dhf is more powerful than a clap). It wasn't more than it appeared... it was a clap, but because of Galactus' strength, it sent shockwaves through other things.
The clap didn't BFR them. They didn't even move...

All he did was make a small crack in Galactus' helmet armor...

He bullrushed into his head in a straight line... They would have to stand still, or be moving in a straight line forwards or backwards for him to catch them... quicker than they can move.

carver9
Originally posted by james2099
Team 1. No one on team 2 can take what BRB will be dishing out, thor and bill can block any attack from surfer and if thor cuts loose ( which on here he will ) then team 2 gets rocked hard. Superman is the weak link here because he goes down with one and only one strike. Even surfer has gone down to thors hammer.

You truly hate supes huh? He's far away from being the wink link in this battle and he aint getting one shotted (Unless he lets beta ray hit him with that attack that damaged galactus hull).

Bouboumaster
I say team 2.

While team 1 have the adventage of teamwork, and badassness, team 2 have the adventage that they have Surfer, who can heal and amp Sups.

carver9
Originally posted by Charmander
He didn't get hit by a planet destroying blast. If you want to play the dumb game, I can too... except mine is forced.

I don't have to provide proof it was a planet destroying attack. You just said that Tenebrous hits harder than Beta... no expression
Also, again, if Tenebrous even jabbed, he would have enough power to destroy a planet. Use some common sense.
All his might for that sort of attack. You hit someone with a double hammerfist while you want to destroy them, you're not fooling around... especially when you pull back all the way.

I never used it as a low showing. I said it was less powerful than what Tenebrous does (assuming they're the same strength, and being that a dhf is more powerful than a clap). It wasn't more than it appeared... it was a clap, but because of Galactus' strength, it sent shockwaves through other things.
The clap didn't BFR them. They didn't even move...

All he did was make a small crack in Galactus' helmet armor...

He bullrushed into his head in a straight line... They would have to stand still, or be moving in a straight line forwards or backwards for him to catch them... quicker than they can move.

Bill was on a planet when it blowed up and he suffered no damage; that should be proof enough.

I give up on the tenebrous and galactus feat but besides what you're bringing up, there really isnt any on panel proof of surfer taking planet destroying physical attacks; especially mutiple planet destroying attacks.

The thing about this fight is that silver surfer is a master at energy attacks which would fail against an energy absorber (bill). He has no choice but to come up close and personal which he would lose more than not against a scrapper like bill OR thor.

carver9
Originally posted by Bouboumaster
I say team 2.

While team 1 have the adventage of teamwork, and badassness, team 2 have the adventage that they have Surfer, who can heal and amp Sups.

When will surfer ever get the chance to amp ANYONE. They would need a 3rd partner for this to happen because I'm pretty sure Beta OR Thor could keep surfer busy enough to stop the amping from happening.

james2099
Originally posted by carver9
You truly hate supes huh? He's far away from being the wink link in this battle and he aint getting one shotted (Unless he lets beta ray hit him with that attack that damaged galactus hull). Supes is weak to magic and is nowhere near the other 3 in output power, this can and will turn into an energy battle. Whats supes going to do?? try to match a God Blast or planet wrecking blast with heat vision??? Supes could well be the strongest on the field, but due to his weakness,( which thor and bill are LOADED WITH ) He goes down hard.

kgkg
Originally posted by carver9 Nope, thats not the argument. This started with me asking has supes or surfer shown that they can take planet destroying hits. Theres no on panel proof showing otherwise that either can. Not energy attacks but physical blows.
If we go by on panel evidence, both have been knocked out by much less. Surfer has been knocked out by tenebrous who did nothing but a moon busting attack (could have been more, going by what I seen) and supes being knocked out also by a moon busting attack (the difference with this is that he flew into the moon which make his feat much less than the surfers).

Originally posted by carver9 If we go by on panel evidence, both have been knocked out by much less. Surfer has been knocked out by tenebrous who did nothing but a moon busting attack (could have been more, going by what I seen) and supes being knocked out also by a moon busting attack (the difference with this is that he flew into the moon which make his feat much less than the surfers).
So you want to use low end feats to justify Surfer will be knocked out by Thor or BRB? Lol at you using tenebrous who is Galactus level as a negative for Surfer. Again you are looking at environmental damage to justify how powerful the shots were? Lol well ok Thor and BRB get put down by Spider-man with that logic. Thor has been K.O with small/no environmental damage before and so has Bill.

On average both Surfer and Superman have shown better durability feat than BRB or Thor.

Speaking of physical attack Surfer always did better at handle Hulk's attack than Thor so physically approach doesn't really help your case.

carver9
Originally posted by james2099
Supes is weak to magic and is nowhere near the other 3 in output power, this can and will turn into an energy battle. Whats supes going to do?? try to match a God Blast or planet wrecking blast with heat vision??? Supes could well be the strongest on the field, but due to his weakness,( which thor and bill are LOADED WITH ) He goes down hard.

Good statement but supes isnt as weak to magic as you're making it and I dont think that its a straight out weakness that he has since almost EVERYONE is affected by magical powers. Hell, juggernaut is one of the most durable beings in comics but magic reduced him to the bone (by the way, magic also affect surfer).

Now I do agree, I give bill and thor the majority over supes but its not due to magic, they are just plain out better to me and more powerful.

Enyalus
Erm...on average Surfer/Superman have shown better durability than Thor? Really?

...I think I disagree.

xJLxKing
Team 2. SS can Amp Superman. SS is better then anyone in team 1(imo). Superman is also better. It comes down to team work. Who has team work.

Charmander
Originally posted by carver9
Bill was on a planet when it blowed up and he suffered no damage; that should be proof enough.

I give up on the tenebrous and galactus feat but besides what you're bringing up, there really isnt any on panel proof of surfer taking planet destroying physical attacks; especially mutiple planet destroying attacks.

The thing about this fight is that silver surfer is a master at energy attacks which would fail against an energy absorber (bill). He has no choice but to come up close and personal which he would lose more than not against a scrapper like bill OR thor. But if we play the Carver game it isn't.
The same way how taking multiple hits by Tenebrous isn't enough to say that a planet destroying shot by BRB will not KO him.

But there is him taking the Tenebrous one, no?
Also, I'm sure there's more, but I can't be assed to look.

New argument!
So, Bill absorbs everything Surfer throws at him? That's certainly been the case for Bill in the past.
And he can zoom around him and pelt him with energy. It's not like he has one choice or the other. He's not going to get dropped in the first second in h2h, and his energy game isn't going to be nulled completely.

carver9
Originally posted by kgkg
If we go by on panel evidence, both have been knocked out by much less. Surfer has been knocked out by tenebrous who did nothing but a moon busting attack (could have been more, going by what I seen) and supes being knocked out also by a moon busting attack (the difference with this is that he flew into the moon which make his feat much less than the surfers).


So you want to use low end feats to justify Surfer will be knocked out by Thor or BRB? Lol at you using tenebrous who is Galactus level as a negative for Surfer. Again you are looking at environmental damage to justify how powerful the shots were? Lol well ok Thor and BRB get put down by Spider-man with that logic. Thor has been K.O with small/no environmental damage before and so has Bill.

On average both Surfer and Superman have shown better durability feat than BRB or Thor.

Speaking of physical attack Surfer always did better at handle Hulk's attack than Thor so physically approach doesn't really help your case.


OMG, I never said that it was a low showing, I only asked if supes or surfer proven that they could withstand physical planet destroying hits, which they didnt.

Its beautiful that they lived through a moon busting feat, thats not what I'm asking and if you ask me its not a low showing but I specifically said that beta ray bill will start off trying to take there heads off and I just want to know if they're durable enough to handle something that they might have never encountered (hitting wise) before, a uru, planet destroying metal that is in the hand of a person that just dont care

carver9
Originally posted by Enyalus
Erm...on average Surfer/Superman have shown better durability than Thor? Really?

...I think I disagree.

Piercing damage, yeah, blunt force, hell no, not even close. Thor has fought some of the strongest characters in marvel and has yet to get one shotted.

carver9
Originally posted by Charmander
But if we play the Carver game it isn't.
The same way how taking multiple hits by Tenebrous isn't enough to say that a planet destroying shot by BRB will not KO him.

But there is him taking the Tenebrous one, no?
Also, I'm sure there's more, but I can't be assed to look.

New argument!
So, Bill absorbs everything Surfer throws at him? That's certainly been the case for Bill in the past.
And he can zoom around him and pelt him with energy. It's not like he has one choice or the other. He's not going to get dropped in the first second in h2h, and his energy game isn't going to be nulled completely.

I guess you didnt read the part where I said that it would take multiple hits.

Didnt bill absorb everything that star dust through at him with ease and while surfer is blasting at bill what is bill going to be doing, let me guess, just standing there.

james2099
Originally posted by carver9
Good statement but supes isnt as weak to magic as you're making it and I dont think that its a straight out weakness that he has since almost EVERYONE is affected by magical powers. Hell, juggernaut is one of the most durable beings in comics but magic reduced him to the bone (by the way, magic also affect surfer).

Now I do agree, I give bill and thor the majority over supes but its not due to magic, they are just plain out better to me and more powerful. True.

Charmander
Originally posted by carver9
I guess you didnt read the part where I said that it would take multiple hits.
I guess I did.
Originally posted by carver9
You do know that surfer was f***** up when tenebrous hit him with that MOON busting attack. sad

His armor was cracked and he was barely able to stand and that was just one physical attack that didnt even destroy the entire moon (which was discovered as being a prison base).
You're implying that it wouldn't even take one planet busting attack.

Originally posted by carver9
Didnt bill absorb everything that star dust through at him with ease and while surfer is blasting at bill what is bill going to be doing, let me guess, just standing there.
Did he?

Well, ya, because Bill has to stop so he can absorb things...

carver9
Originally posted by Charmander
I guess I did.



You're implying that it wouldn't even take one planet busting attack.

Did he?

Well, ya, because Bill has to stop so he can absorb things...

Surfer was ripped up but he was still fighting and tenebrous didnt just hit surfer in the head, the attack covered his entire body (due to his size) which made it more devastating.

It wouldnt take just one hit, it would take multiple of hits but one of them should make surfer dizzy as hell.

Bill can absorb then attack, just that simple. You do know that bill has powerout put also.

Charmander
Originally posted by carver9
Surfer was ripped up but he was still fighting and tenebrous didnt just hit surfer in the head, the attack covered his entire body (due to his size) which made it more devastating.

It wouldnt take just one hit, it would take multiple of hits but one of them should make surfer dizzy as hell.

Bill can absorb then attack, just that simple. You do know that bill has powerout put also. You're changing your arguments.

Right. And the point of bringing up Surfer/Supes never taking a planet destroying attack, and Surfer being screwed up by a moon destroying attack means... ?

Against an energy manipulator like Surfer?

Warlord
stalemate

janus77
SS/SM FTW.
Surfer helped make BRB's mallet, he can just as easily un-make it.
Surfer also healed up Thor, when Thor couldn't do it himself.
Surfer's far faster than Thor/BRB, far more agile and can easily open up black-holes in order to harrass/bfr BRB.


also, given the insane amounts of punishment Surfer can endure, I don't see Thor or BRB being upto the job of taking him out... UniLord couldn't kill him in his own dimension and I doubt Thor is >> UniLord. Surfer is the most durable combatent here, imo.

Kris Blaze
Team 1.

Originally posted by Charmander
Ah, so you suppose that Beta Ray Bill hits harder than a full out double hammerfist from someone on Galactus' physical level

What does this mean?

What is Galactus' physical level?

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by carver9
Good statement but supes isnt as weak to magic as you're making it and I dont think that its a straight out weakness that he has since almost EVERYONE is affected by magical powers.Superman getting engulfed in magical flame would be hurt far more than say, Captain Marvel getting engulfed by magical flame. Concerning the field of characters with his level of durability, magic is definitely a weakness of his.

D_Dude1210
Team 2 via Surfer amping superman with both Yellow Sun radiation and the Power cosmic. big grin

Then BAM! Speedblitz!

Edit. Basically, they fly out of melee range from BRB and Thor (where they can use their abilities the best) and just avoid their attacks until Surfer can amp supes enough.

quanchi112
Team 1 wins.

carver9
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Superman getting engulfed in magical flame would be hurt far more than say, Captain Marvel getting engulfed by magical flame. Concerning the field of characters with his level of durability, magic is definitely a weakness of his.

Bad example. Captain marvel is a magical based being whereas supes isnt. Its common sense that magical powers would have a much harder time affecting cm instead of supes since his powers revolves around magic.

Magic is one of the most creative powers in dc and it has a impact on almost ANYONE who isnt just plain out magical resistant like, um, captain marvel or even wonder woman.

Supes isnt weak to magic, saying that alone mean that the entire dcu and marvel earth is weak to magic also.

How many times has surfer been affected by magic, I cant even count it in my head anymore.

carver9
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Team 2 via Surfer amping superman with both Yellow Sun radiation and the Power cosmic. big grin

Then BAM! Speedblitz!

Edit. Basically, they fly out of melee range from BRB and Thor (where they can use their abilities the best) and just avoid their attacks until Surfer can amp supes enough.

When will surfer have the time to amp superman confused

Raoul
Originally posted by carver9
When will surfer have the time to amp superman confused

during the match. all he has to do is blast superman with one shot of concentrated sunlight. instant amp.

D_Dude1210
I'd say thru feats, travel and combat speed-wise Supes and SS are a bit faster than Thor or BRB. They can play defensively and just fly rings around the two just to give SS time enough to give Supes a decent amp.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by carver9
Bad example. Captain marvel is a magical based being whereas supes isnt. Its common sense that magical powers would have a much harder time affecting cm instead of supes since his powers revolves around magic.Superman getting engulfed in magical flame would be hurt far more than say, Gladiator getting engulfed by magical flame. Concerning the field of characters with his level of durability, magic is definitely a weakness of Superman's.

carver9
Originally posted by Raoul
during the match. all he has to do is blast superman with one shot of concentrated sunlight. instant amp.

So while thor is hammering away at surfer and surfer is in one of the dangerous fight of his life, hes going to have the time to do this.

I'm not even going to mention supes fight against beta ray bill who posses a mallet that is capable of crushing planets. A mallet that has the abilities of draining supes power.

It would be hard pressed for me to believe that supes could stand up to any attacks that beta ray bill was giving a being that is more powerful and durable than supes (stardust).

Supes is going to have to start this match out at his "A" game in order to even make this an interesting battle because I'm pretty damn sure that beta would be packing more hitting power than what kalibak mace did to supes which did ko him.

Raoul
Originally posted by carver9
So while thor is hammering away at surfer and surfer is in one of the dangerous fight of his life, hes going to have the time to do this.

yes.

carver9
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Superman getting engulfed in magical flame would be hurt far more than say, Gladiator getting engulfed by magical flame. Concerning the field of characters with his level of durability, magic is definitely a weakness of Superman's.

Another bad example; when has magic EVER had any kind of affect on gladiator.

Now if you engulf Juggernaut and supes in magical flames then I'm pretty sure it would have the same kind of affect.

Supes durability against magic isnt any different than anyone else durability, some people just have resistance against it more than others. Superman has been powered by magic before, if it had so much of a impact towards him, the negative would have happened instead of the positive.

carver9
Originally posted by Raoul
yes.

I disagree but like usual we're always on different terms. Thor has always proven to be surfers superior in combat so if you're fighting a equal/greater how will you ever have the chance to do anything but fight for your life.

Raoul
Originally posted by carver9
I disagree but like usual we're always on different terms. Thor has always proven to be surfers superior in combat so if you're fighting a equal/greater how will you ever have the chance to do anything but fight for your life.

all it takes is a split second for surfer to turn and blast superman. he can dodge thor long enough to do so. heck, he could do it at the start of the fight before the two teams even clash.

DarkOdin
Originally posted by Raoul
all it takes is a split second for surfer to turn and blast superman. he can dodge thor long enough to do so. heck, he could do it at the start of the fight before the two teams even clash.

It would take the same amount of time for Thor or Bill to absorb that blast.

Juntai
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Superman getting engulfed in magical flame would be hurt far more than say, Captain Marvel getting engulfed by magical flame. Concerning the field of characters with his level of durability, magic is definitely a weakness of his. You mean in the sense that Captain Marvel is a magical being that's nigh immune to magic?
lol.

Not really a fair comparison.

carver9
Originally posted by Raoul
all it takes is a split second for surfer to turn and blast superman. he can dodge thor long enough to do so. heck, he could do it at the start of the fight before the two teams even clash.

So you honestly think surfer would doubt his abilities and amp supes from the start.

By the way, thor and beta has the abilities of unamping opponents with the hammer kind of like what they did to the juggernaut and other beings.

Raoul
Originally posted by DarkOdin
It would take the same amount of time for Thor or Bill to absorb that blast.

assuming they could even do that.

Originally posted by carver9
So you honestly think surfer would doubt his abilities and amp supes from the start.

By the way, thor and beta has the abilities of unamping opponents with the hammer kind of like what they did to the juggernaut and other beings.

why does amping supes make surfer doubt his own abilities?

they're going to be fighting arguably the best slugger in comics. you assume they'll have the time to unamp superman, but surfer wouldn't have the time to amp him? sounds like a double standard, imo.

carver9
Have a question, what is a amps superman best feat against a top tier?

I ask this because an amped supes failed to take out wonder woman who almost has the same kind of damage soak as beta.

Raoul
Originally posted by carver9
Have a question, what is a amps superman best feat against a top tier?

I ask this because an amped supes failed to take out wonder woman who almost has the same kind of damage soak as beta.

if you're going to try and use sacrifice as an example of an amped superman, then i really don't want to go any further.

carver9
Originally posted by Raoul
assuming they could even do that.



why does amping supes make surfer doubt his own abilities?

they're going to be fighting arguably the best slugger in comics. you assume they'll have the time to unamp superman, but surfer wouldn't have the time to amp him? sounds like a double standard, imo.

Why wouldnt they be able to do it, they did it before.


I agree, it is double standard but its safe to say that it can happen on both sides.

The reason I said doubt is due to the fact that each character has knowledge of the other characcters abilities. I'm pretty sure with surfer know supes abilities he'll think that supes could handle his own in a fight against thor or beta. I didnt mean doubt his abilities but supes.

carver9
Originally posted by Raoul
if you're going to try and use sacrifice as an example of an amped superman, then i really don't want to go any further.

Disregard that post then. Whats the best showing for an amped supes against a top tier?

Raoul
Originally posted by carver9
Why wouldnt they be able to do it, they did it before.


I agree, it is double standard but its safe to say that it can happen on both sides.

The reason I said doubt is due to the fact that each character has knowledge of the other characcters abilities. I'm pretty sure with surfer know supes abilities he'll think that supes could handle his own in a fight against thor or beta. I didnt mean doubt his abilities but supes.

i honestly think Superman is above BRB or Classic Thor anyways, tbh...

Originally posted by carver9
Disregard that post then. Whats the best showing for an amped supes against a top tier?

why amped? he's not amped that often, and tends to do fine without it.

jrodslam
I dont think its right to assume there will be any amping or draining from the start. If Surfer were to "amp" Supes, it would be due to him finding out Supes gets powered by the sun. I may not be instantly. Whoever Supes fights, its gonna come down to a slugfest. Yes they are to fight to the best of their abilities, but also in character.

Raoul
Originally posted by jrodslam
I dont think its right to assume there will be any amping or draining from the start. If Surfer were to "amp" Supes, it would be due to him finding out Supes gets powered by the sun. I may not be instantly. Whoever Supes fights, its gonna come down to a slugfest. Yes they are to fight to the best of their abilities, but also in character.

yup.

carver9
Originally posted by Raoul
i honestly think Superman is above BRB or Classic Thor anyways, tbh...



why amped? he's not amped that often, and tends to do fine without it.


Thats the point that I"m trying to make, supes doesnt need an amp for this fight and if so what was his best showing while he was amped.


Why do you think that supes is more powerful than beta and thor? Thor showings against more powerful beings is a lot more impressive and just outright more powerful than supes. Without speed supes would get crushed against thor, speed is the only reason I give supes a chance against him.

Supes beinig stronger, thats very, very arguable. There hasnt been any on panel showing or nothing thor has failed to lift that make me believe he is weaker than supes.

Power output, this isnt even a debate.

Versatility, thor has this in spades.

Better fighter, thor has this also.

Durable, supes is more durable against sharpnel than thor but blunt force trama, I think thor has him beat.

Beta has every ability that thor has, beta just doesnt hold back, he goes for the kill which would be bad for either supes or surfer imo

carver9
Originally posted by jrodslam
I dont think its right to assume there will be any amping or draining from the start. If Surfer were to "amp" Supes, it would be due to him finding out Supes gets powered by the sun. I may not be instantly. Whoever Supes fights, its gonna come down to a slugfest. Yes they are to fight to the best of their abilities, but also in character.

I agree with this and thats the main reason I give this to marvels team. Supes nor Surfer has shown me that they can take planet destroy hits.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by carver9
Another bad example; when has magic EVER had any kind of affect on gladiator.What the hell are you talking about? Fine. Use Hyperion, Ikaris or Majestic or Apollo or whomever. Stop imbuing people with phantom magical invulnerability or covering up people who have magic vulnerability for god's sake.

carver9
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
What the hell are you talking about? Fine. Use Hyperion, Ikaris or Majestic or Apollo or whomever. Stop imbuing people with phantom magical invulnerability or covering up people who have magic vulnerability for god's sake.

Magic has impacted almost everyone that you named. Supes isnt weak against it, magic is just a plot device power that impact EVERYONE. Wolverine has one of the best healing factor in comics but got turned into a werewolf due to magic. Hulk was disintegrated to nothing but bones due to magic. Thor was turned into a frog due to magic and lets not bring up everything loki has done to him.

Its not a vulnerability to supes, it mentally gets to him but he has as much resistance to it as almost anyone in dc and marvel, NONE.

D_Dude1210
You think the Surfer can't take planet busting hits?? He's one of the most durable characters in the MU. >_<

Besides, Supes and SS trumps Thor and BRB in speed, so once they've realized that this would be a tough fight, Supes gets on the board and Surfer just accelerates to top speed (leaving Thor and BRB in the dust) to allow SS to amp Supes while Thor and BRB attempt to keep up.

Also, I see a lot of people arguing that SS's cosmic awareness helps find weaknesses but now it can't ascertain strengths?

Philosophía
Nobody needs any kind of amping. Team 2 will just straight-up kick their asses.

D_Dude1210

jrodslam
Originally posted by carver9
I agree with this and thats the main reason I give this to marvels team. Supes nor Surfer has shown me that they can take planet destroy hits.

And youre saying that every hit is going to be a planet destroying hit? If thats the case, i may as well say team use will just use their superior speed to dodge every single "planet destroying hit". Neither of the two is gonna happen. Dont make it seem otheriwse.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by carver9
Magic has impacted almost everyone that you named. Supes isnt weak against it, magic is just a plot device power that impact EVERYONE. Wolverine has one of the best healing factor in comics but got turned into a werewolf due to magic. Hulk was disintegrated to nothing but bones due to magic. Thor was turned into a frog due to magic and lets not bring up everything loki has done to him.

Its not a vulnerability to supes, it mentally gets to him but he has as much resistance to it as almost anyone in dc and marvel, NONE. Are you kidding me? You didn't even manage to address a single character that I listed with this gibberish. But way to bring up Thor because magic flame doesn't hurt Thor any more than cosmic flame. Is that simple fact too hard for you to understand?

Don't try to confuse the well-established vulnerability that Superman has to magic relative to other characters that are his peers by citing random occurrences that have nothing to do with Superman. Not only that, you go ahead and assume that Gladiator has some phantom invulnerability to magic. He's just extraordinarily durable.

carver9
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
You think the Surfer can't take planet busting hits?? He's one of the most durable characters in the MU. >_<

Besides, Supes and SS trumps Thor and BRB in speed, so once they've realized that this would be a tough fight, Supes gets on the board and Surfer just accelerates to top speed (leaving Thor and BRB in the dust) to allow SS to amp Supes while Thor and BRB attempt to keep up.

Also, I see a lot of people arguing that SS's cosmic awareness helps find weaknesses but now it can't ascertain strengths?


HMMM, so you think that surfer could just outright leave them in the dust since beta was just plain out flying across the universe like it was nothing.

You also think that supes and surfer is just outright more faster than them even though thor and bill has some amazing reaction speed.

You do know that if they leave the battle field that counts as bfring and again, show me surfer or supes taking planet destroying hits without going down because they have been dropped by much less and thats what bill is going to start the fight out with, planet busting hits.

Do you know who tanaraq is, just read up on what a none holding back bill did to him. I can post it if you want.

jrodslam
Originally posted by carver9
Magic has impacted almost everyone that you named. Supes isnt weak against it, magic is just a plot device power that impact EVERYONE. Wolverine has one of the best healing factor in comics but got turned into a werewolf due to magic. Hulk was disintegrated to nothing but bones due to magic. Thor was turned into a frog due to magic and lets not bring up everything loki has done to him.

Its not a vulnerability to supes, it mentally gets to him but he has as much resistance to it as almost anyone in dc and marvel, NONE.

Supes would be affected moreso with a magical based attack than your normal brick with high durability. Just about everyone can be turned to something via magical spell. Its kinda like hes allergic, so its stinks a bit more for him.

carver9
Originally posted by jrodslam
And youre saying that every hit is going to be a planet destroying hit? If thats the case, i may as well say team use will just use their superior speed to dodge every single "planet destroying hit". Neither of the two is gonna happen. Dont make it seem otheriwse.

Not from thor, no, but from bill I'm pretty sure its going to be a outright trying to kill fight.

I agree, supes and surfer have a speed edge but I dont think its enough to make a difference in this fight. Thats the reason I included supes, due to his speed edge because he sure as hell isnt as powerful as the 3 in this battle but his speed changes that, make it a different kind of fight.

carver9
Originally posted by jrodslam
Supes would be affected moreso with a magical based attack than your normal brick with high durability. Just about everyone can be turned to something via magical spell. Its kinda like hes allergic, so its stinks a bit more for him.

I just disagree with this, just my opinion though. I dont think hes weak to it, his durability against it isnt any different than anyone else. Its a plot device power.

OneDumbG0
^ His vulnerability to magic is well-documented. And despite various claims over the years that Superman has received upgrades or isn't so weak to it anymore, he remains vulnerable to it and it continues to be well-documented.

quanchi112

carver9
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ His vulnerability to magic is well-documented. And despite various claims over the years that Superman has received upgrades or isn't so weak to it anymore, he remains vulnerable to it and it continues to be well-documented.

You do know why its documented that he is weak to magic right? I'm thinking that its documented so that it wouldnt appears as if supes is just completely invulnerable.

Philosophía
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ His vulnerability to magic is well-documented. And despite various claims over the years that Superman has received upgrades or isn't so weak to it anymore, he remains vulnerable to it and it continues to be well-documented.

thumb up

He's weak to it in the sense that it affects him worse than typical energy/blunt force attacks do, even if they would be at the 'same level' of damage.

Raoul

carver9

Enyalus
Originally posted by carver9
Another bad example; when has magic EVER had any kind of affect on gladiator.

How 'bout just two weeks ago, in War of Kings: Warriors - Gladiator #1?



Regardless...Team One wins.

carver9
Originally posted by Raoul
his only really true amped showing is Our Worlds At War.



that's your opinion. mine is different.



and superman has?



then we disagree about yet more things.



aye.


Our worlds at war isnt proving much to me about how supes tangles with top tier. I think a lot of people blew that showing out of context anyway.

Im not going to down your opinion either because thats what debating is about, opinions.

Nope, superman hasnt but thor hasnt either so you cant say one is stronger than the other without some kind of proof.

I think we will always disagree, I hope that change one day though. I hope you admit one day that I'm always right. wink

carver9
Originally posted by Enyalus
How 'bout just two weeks ago, in War of Kings: Warriors - Gladiator #1?



Regardless...Team One wins.

The psy blast? confused

Enyalus
Originally posted by carver9
The psy blast? confused
Nope...You're talking about Rachel?

I'm talking about a magician tossing a magical bolt at him while Gladiator was younger.

Raoul
Originally posted by carver9
Our worlds at war isnt proving much to me about how supes tangles with top tier. I think a lot of people blew that showing out of context anyway.

Im not going to down your opinion either because thats what debating is about, opinions.

Nope, superman hasnt but thor hasnt either so you cant say one is stronger than the other without some kind of proof.

I think we will always disagree, I hope that change one day though. I hope you admit one day that I'm always right. wink

i think people who try to downplay owaw are just trying to make Superman look bad.

from what i've seen of both men, Superman looks stronger to me.

if you make any statements that happen to be true, i'll support em... wink

D_Dude1210
Originally posted by carver9
HMMM, so you think that surfer could just outright leave them in the dust since beta was just plain out flying across the universe like it was nothing.

Surfer is faster. But if you have proof otherwise, show me BRB's fastest speed feat. When they start traversing light years in seconds (aka over a million times FTL) then I'll believe you.

Originally posted by carver9
You also think that supes and surfer is just outright more faster than them even though thor and bill has some amazing reaction speed.

They do, but they're not equal to Surfer's nanosecond reaction speed. But that's not even the point here. Thing is they can easily fly rings around these two to buy themselves time.

Originally posted by carver9
You do know that if they leave the battle field that counts as bfring and again, show me surfer or supes taking planet destroying hits without going down because they have been dropped by much less and thats what bill is going to start the fight out with, planet busting hits.

Outmaneuvering someone does not count as BFR as long as they still plan on coming back to fight. :-/

Originally posted by carver9
Do you know who tanaraq is, just read up on what a none holding back bill did to him. I can post it if you want.

So what are you saying? You saying BRB and Thor's gonna one shot Surfer or Supes? Cuz I'm not sure what you're getting at about the whole "planet busting hitting power" business.

carver9
Originally posted by Enyalus
Nope...You're talking about Rachel?

I'm talking about a magician tossing a magical bolt at him while Gladiator was younger.

You do know that gladiator powers is psy (dont know if I spelled that right) in nature so was he as developed in his powers as he is today. His powers is based on his mind, thats why in reeds and professor files it states that he can do anything if he put his mind to it. I'm pretty sure with that said his mind wasnt as stable as it is today (basically not knowing what he's capable of) as he was when he was a child. His durability might wasnt even COMPARED to what it is today. Do you have the scan of that?

Enyalus
Originally posted by carver9
Power output, this isnt even a debate.

Versatility, thor has this in spades.

Durable, supes is more durable against sharpnel than thor but blunt force trama, I think thor has him beat.

Raoul: The above shouldn't even be in question. Thor's better in each area, and its clear.

carver9
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Surfer is faster. But if you have proof otherwise, show me BRB's fastest speed feat. When they start traversing light years in seconds (aka over a million times FTL) then I'll believe you.



They do, but they're not equal to Surfer's nanosecond reaction speed. But that's not even the point here. Thing is they can easily fly rings around these two to buy themselves time.



Outmaneuvering someone does not count as BFR as long as they still plan on coming back to fight. :-/



So what are you saying? You saying BRB and Thor's gonna one shot Surfer or Supes? Cuz I'm not sure what you're getting at about the whole "planet busting hitting power" business.


Thor has flown across the universe MULTIPLE of times along with beta ray bill. I dont think flying speed has anything to do with this and again if they leave the battle field that is a bfr.

Surfer is fast as hell, he's the fastest on the field but again speed isnt whats deciding this battle because surfer WILL get hit.

I'm not saying one shot but I'm saying one of those hits would do some damage since there isnt any on panel proof showing that they could handle anything CLOSE to that kind of power (physically).

carver9
Originally posted by Enyalus
Raoul: The above shouldn't even be in question. Thor's better in each area, and its clear.


Plain and clear

Enyalus
Originally posted by carver9
Do you have the scan of that?

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Gladiator_Magic1.jpg

D_Dude1210
Originally posted by carver9
Thor has flown across the universe MULTIPLE of times along with beta ray bill. I dont think flying speed has anything to do with this and again if they leave the battle field that is a bfr.

Surfer is fast as hell, he's the fastest on the field but again speed isnt whats deciding this battle because surfer WILL get hit.

I'm not saying one shot but I'm saying one of those hits would do some damage since there isnt any on panel proof showing that they could handle anything CLOSE to that kind of power (physically).

You're not getting what I mean, tho. Surfer can have Supes get on the board, fly away and then amp. Is there really anything Thor or BRB can do to prevent this tactic?

OneDumbG0

Enyalus
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
You're not getting what I mean, tho. Surfer can have Supes get on the board, fly away and then amp. Is there really anything Thor or BRB can do to prevent this tactic?
Self BFR?

D_Dude1210
Originally posted by Enyalus
Self BFR?

How can it be self BFR if they A) can come back from it. B) come back after a few seconds C) are still able to fight?

Enyalus
Because I said so.

D_Dude1210
Originally posted by Enyalus
Because I said so.

cheeter! sad

Mindset
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
How can it be self BFR if they A) can come back from it. B) come back after a few seconds C) are still able to fight? A) He has removed himself from the battlefield B) If he doesn't return within 10 seconds he forfeits 3) Eny is going to stick it in your pooper

Enyalus
Originally posted by Mindset
3) Eny is going to stick it in your pooper
Truer words have never been spoken.

D_Dude1210
Originally posted by Mindset
A) He has removed himself from the battlefield B) If he doesn't return within 10 seconds he forfeits 3) Eny is going to stick it in your pooper

A) He doesn't have to necessarily remove himself from the battlefield just outmaneuver. B) See A 3) I'm a giver not a taker.

Kris Blaze
Team 1

Enyalus
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Team 1
big grin

Kris Blaze
Originally posted by Enyalus
big grin

Onedumbgo was right about Warrior Madness mind you.

I'm uploading the scans of the first time Thor truly entered Warrior Madness. Looks like we were wrong buddy smile

Raoul
Originally posted by Enyalus
Raoul: The above shouldn't even be in question. Thor's better in each area, and its clear.

maybe to you. stick out tongue

also, i wasn't disagreeing with all of it, just some of it.

quanchi112
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
You're not getting what I mean, tho. Surfer can have Supes get on the board, fly away and then amp. Is there really anything Thor or BRB can do to prevent this tactic? Bfr Superman.

Enyalus
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Onedumbgo was right about Warrior Madness mind you.

I'm uploading the scans of the first time Thor truly entered Warrior Madness. Looks like we were wrong buddy smile
Yeah, I just saw 'em.

So...wow. Full capacity means Thor kinda shits on most, if not all other high heralds, huh?

carver9
Originally posted by Enyalus
Yeah, I just saw 'em.

So...wow. Full capacity means Thor kinda shits on most, if not all other high heralds, huh?

Yep, thats what it means since one of the best herald plus drax got shit stomped by him in a couple of panels.

Slaanesh
Surfer will beat Thor..
Supes will beat BRB..

team 2 FTW

D_Dude1210
Originally posted by quanchi112
Bfr Superman.

I guess if they do it early and somehow catches Superman (or if Supes stands still to be caught) with it, it's possible but rare. O_o

I still stand with uber-amped Supes + Surfer taking it. The run-and-amp tactic is a much more viable and workable tactic than a Thor BFR (unless you can show me scans of Thor catching someone with Supe's speed with a BFR attack).

Power-wise BRB/Thor has it in spades but Supes and SS's mix of powers complement each other and allow for a broader range of tactics so I'll give them the slight majority.

Team 2 7/10.

Spire
Team 2.

Surfer and Supes knee them in the chin.

Kris Blaze
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
I guess if they do it early and somehow catches Superman (or if Supes stands still to be caught) with it, it's possible but rare. O_o

I still stand with uber-amped Supes + Surfer taking it. The run-and-amp tactic is a much more viable and workable tactic than a Thor BFR (unless you can show me scans of Thor catching someone with Supe's speed with a BFR attack).

Power-wise BRB/Thor has it in spades but Supes and SS's mix of powers complement each other and allow for a broader range of tactics so I'll give them the slight majority.

Team 2 7/10.

Thor forcibly teleported Pluto :/

You can't resist it.

TricksterPriest
"Take your standard magic flame which is measured at 10,000 degrees celsius and your standard cosmic flame which is measured at 10,000 degrees celsius. Thor, Gladiator, Hyperion, Apollo, Wonderwoman and many others would tank and not be hurt by either of those flames. However, Superman would be hurt by the former, not by the latter. That difference is Superman's vulnerability. It's not that hard to understand."

Superman has higher durability than most of the people on that list to begin with. And 2nd, I'm quite sure he's had at least two upgrades to his magic resistance. He took down Arion pretty easily.......

D_Dude1210
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Thor forcibly teleported Pluto :/

You can't resist it.

Resist no, avoid, yes.

You're talking about people who can traverse light years in seconds, avoiding a planet sized portal should be cake. Unless you're saying that Thor's BFR is completely unavoidable (wherein any debate with Thor in it would end up being "Thor via BFR"wink.

The tactic I propose is for Supes and SS to weave in and out using their superior speed to avoid Thor and BRB's attacks while Supes gets amped. Supes then engages one of the two (amped) while Surfer stalls the other.

PC and Sun-amped Supes shud be able to take on Thor or BRB then SS cud stalemate either if he fights defensively.

Kris Blaze
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Resist no, avoid, yes.

You're talking about people who can traverse light years in seconds, avoiding a planet sized portal should be cake. Unless you're saying that Thor's BFR is completely unavoidable (wherein any debate with Thor in it would end up being "Thor via BFR"wink.

You can't avoid it, once the hammer starts spinning around you there's not much you can do. And that hammer goes from the end of the galaxy and back in a couple of seconds. That shit would give the Black Flash a run for its money smile

D_Dude1210
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
You can't avoid it, once the hammer starts spinning around you there's not much you can do. And that hammer goes from the end of the galaxy and back in a couple of seconds. That shit would give the Black Flash a run for its money smile

When has the hammer ever BFRd a fast moving target while Thor was engaged in combat?

cloud102
BRB is about to lay the smack down on Galactus and Surfer. Hoepfully it will be good.

D_Dude1210
Originally posted by cloud102
BRB is about to lay the smack down on Galactus and Surfer. Hoepfully it will be good.

I'm hoping SS kicks his horse-@ss. big grin

cloud102
Well, it seems he got to big G, so I don't think Surfer survived the experience. Time will tell, buddy.

D_Dude1210
Originally posted by cloud102
Well, it seems he got to big G, so I don't think Surfer survived the experience. Time will tell, buddy.

Nevaaarrrr!!!

quanchi112
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
I guess if they do it early and somehow catches Superman (or if Supes stands still to be caught) with it, it's possible but rare. O_o

I still stand with uber-amped Supes + Surfer taking it. The run-and-amp tactic is a much more viable and workable tactic than a Thor BFR (unless you can show me scans of Thor catching someone with Supe's speed with a BFR attack).

Power-wise BRB/Thor has it in spades but Supes and SS's mix of powers complement each other and allow for a broader range of tactics so I'll give them the slight majority.

Team 2 7/10. Superman is going to get hit here and can be bfr'd at Thor's leisure. If they amp Supes I think Thor bfr's him. It's as simple as that.

carver9
Originally posted by cloud102
Well, it seems he got to big G, so I don't think Surfer survived the experience. Time will tell, buddy.

Beta ray bill is a beast and if you ask me, he's above top tier and I think that he could beat surfer, he has the power at his disposal to do so.

quanchi112
Originally posted by carver9
Beta ray bill is a beast and if you ask me, he's above top tier and I think that he could beat surfer, he has the power at his disposal to do so. He really hasn't shown anything to be considered above top tier. Maybe after his mini, but not now.

carver9
Originally posted by quanchi112
He really hasn't shown anything to be considered above top tier. Maybe after his mini, but not now.

Well star dust is a high herald and he beat him with ease.

quanchi112
Originally posted by carver9
Well star dust is a high herald and he beat him with ease. Wasn't that more or less a stalemate?

carver9
Originally posted by quanchi112
Wasn't that more or less a stalemate?

Its was only a stalemate due to star dust durability but star dust was near death until he transformed to his other form which has never happened.

Beta whipped his ass along with tanaraq ass who is both above top tier in power and abilities

quanchi112
Originally posted by carver9
Its was only a stalemate due to star dust durability but star dust was near death until he transformed to his other form which has never happened.

Beta whipped his ass along with tanaraq ass who is both above top tier in power and abilities he changed into his other form so it means BrB didn't easily beat him and ended in a stalemate.

D_Dude1210
Originally posted by quanchi112
Superman is going to get hit here and can be bfr'd at Thor's leisure. If they amp Supes I think Thor bfr's him. It's as simple as that.

Unless I see Thor BFR a fast moving object, I really can't agree with this. :/

quanchi112
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Unless I see Thor BFR a fast moving object, I really can't agree with this. :/ Are you saying that Thor won't be able to touch him?

D_Dude1210
Originally posted by quanchi112
Are you saying that Thor won't be able to touch him?

The times I've seen Thor BFR, it required more than a touch. :-/ Scans otherwise?

carver9
Originally posted by quanchi112
he changed into his other form so it means BrB didn't easily beat him and ended in a stalemate.

But he got overwhelmed throughout the battle

Naija boy
Hmm Tough match, could go either way really. I see SS and thor stalemating while superman edges out BRB. On the flip side if thor fights smart and goes for the BFR early on it ould be a two on one against SS.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Superman has higher durability than most of the people on that list to begin with. And 2nd, I'm quite sure he's had at least two upgrades to his magic resistance. He took down Arion pretty easily....... No argument on Superman's physical durability, excluding magical vulnerability. I'm just saying Wonderwoman is more durable against magic flame than Superman is. It's a recognition of his vulnerability to magic, not an assessment of his overall physical durability. And those magic upgrades are KMC myth. We've discussed them before:
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
And as far as I know, Zatanna only taught Superman how to recognize and resist magical attempts to subvert his will in Superman #662. And Phantom Stranger's gift to Superman in Superman Annual #13 was temporary. Superman's own thought captions refer to the protection as protecting him for the time being and Arion also states that if he was at full power, the enchantment would be worthless. I've never seen Superman resisting magic after his Arion fight nor see Superman's S-shield glow after being attacked by magic after this fight. And I've never seen this magical boost even referenced after this fight. Indeed, he was waylaid by magic-K in the more recent Superman/Batman #46 and Phantom Stranger was present in that issue as well. Where was this so-called magic resistance then? Phantom Stranger's gift has never been depicted nor mentioned again and there's current evidence against Superman having it.

janus77
the quickest, guaranteed way for Team 2 to +stomp+ this match is if Surfer decides to merge with Superman - like he did with Skaar.

no way is either BRB or Thor powerful enough to take out or even significantly harm someone that durable. on top of that, because Super Surfer has all of SS' PC powers, no bfr possible.

instead, SuperSurfer grabs BRB by the throat and squeezes the life out of him, whilst orbiting a slow and bewildered Thor at multiples of C.

Surfer's shown himself easily capable of dodging mjolnir and of generally evading attacks by characters who are themselves FTL or close as (Deathurge and Nova for 2).

the best thing about it is, Surfer wouldn't take a second to do it either.


imo, depending on what technique Surfer chooses, it could be a total 10/10 stomp for Team 2.

DarkOdin
Originally posted by janus77
the quickest, guaranteed way for Team 2 to +stomp+ this match is if Surfer decides to merge with Superman - like he did with Skaar.

no way is either BRB or Thor powerful enough to take out or even significantly harm someone that durable. on top of that, because Super Surfer has all of SS' PC powers, no bfr possible.

instead, SuperSurfer grabs BRB by the throat and squeezes the life out of him, whilst orbiting a slow and bewildered Thor at multiples of C.

Surfer's shown himself easily capable of dodging mjolnir and of generally evading attacks by characters who are themselves FTL or close as (Deathurge and Nova for 2).

the best thing about it is, Surfer wouldn't take a second to do it either.


imo, depending on what technique Surfer chooses, it could be a total 10/10 stomp for Team 2.

I would love to see them merge then team 1 wins 10/10 Thor or Beta teleports the 3 of them into a red star and beat super surfer to death.

Thor has shown to be more then a match for surfer when he doesn't hold back. Supes can be taken out fast thru bfr team 1 wins

id369
While members can nit pick how they stand individually. It does not hide the fact, that the Hammer brothers have and will work together efficiently. While the fantasy tag team, would be simply that; a fantasy team up. Now couple Supermans vulnerability to magically infused force. And you have a clear edge in team 1 has over team 2. Thus wining more often then not.

janus77
lol, remember it's Surfer's PC, glaze and all... Red Sun would do nothing but amp up Surfer (insanely dangerous thing for Thor/BRB to do).

as for Thor being more than a match, other than when Surfer was depowered and cut off from cosmic energies, I don't think Thor's figured as a challenge. hell, Thor's not even strong enough to endure a barrage from Hulk, something that Surfer's taken without even flinching.

also, bfr-ing SuperSurfer to the heart of a red sun wouldn't work for another - equally elementary - reason. the PC would allow SuperSurfer to bfr them back instantly. Surfer's powers and perception seem to work far faster than Thor's or BRB's. so Surfer would get the jump on them, not the other way around.

further, Surfer could easily depower BRB, given that he can manipulate the energies that power him. Surfer did synthesise his mallet for him, after all.

DarkOdin
Originally posted by janus77
lol, remember it's Surfer's PC, glaze and all... Red Sun would do nothing but amp up Surfer (insanely dangerous thing for Thor/BRB to do).

as for Thor being more than a match, other than when Surfer was depowered and cut off from cosmic energies, I don't think Thor's figured as a challenge. hell, Thor's not even strong enough to endure a barrage from Hulk, something that Surfer's taken without even flinching.

also, bfr-ing SuperSurfer to the heart of a red sun wouldn't work for another - equally elementary - reason. the PC would allow SuperSurfer to bfr them back instantly. Surfer's powers and perception seem to work far faster than Thor's or BRB's. so Surfer would get the jump on them, not the other way around.

further, Surfer could easily depower BRB, given that he can manipulate the energies that power him. Surfer did synthesise his mallet for him, after all.

A merger of the 2 would gain the strenghts and weakness ask amazo.

Thor not being able to take the hulk lol well you don't now thor.

Thor not holding back laid out the surfer with ease.

Thor never had a problem tagging surfer before nor will he have one now. As soon as surfer get in range of the red sun he will be crimpled by the red rad. just like amazo

quanchi112
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
No argument on Superman's physical durability, excluding magical vulnerability. I'm just saying Wonderwoman is more durable against magic flame than Superman is. It's a recognition of his vulnerability to magic, not an assessment of his overall physical durability. And those magic upgrades are KMC myth. We've discussed them before: I tried telling batdude that, but he didn't want to listen.

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