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1. Kratos & Dante

2. Raziel & Kain

3. Sephiroth & Link

4. Mortal Pyron

5. All of above

he dies at 1 because he is not strong enough with the force. he dies at 2 because of the almighty kain. he dies at 3 because the darkside is no match for the master sword. idk who 4 is... 5 is spite. this whole court is out of order.

Not strong enough? (Did you look at the Starkiller vs Kratos/Dante thread?) DID YOU SEE WHEN HE PULLED THE STAR-DESTROYER DOWN?!

Already been proven Kain would lose.

Starkiller would not be able to beat Kratos and Dante at the same time. Maybe one at a time he could, but not two.

He dies at 1.

Starkiller beats all but mortal pyron, merely because mortal Pyron may not actually have anything Starkiller can crush permanently to make sure Pyron does ont just reform his body. None of them can react to Apprentice apprently who can move incredibly quick mentally and just splatter them.

He should make it to 4. I don't know who Mortal Pyron is.

How? He can crush multiple beings at once and without time passing and with just a thought?

I had no idea he could do that.

None of them can react to him?

Dante and Sephiroth could easily move faster then Starkiller could keep up with -mentally-.

Originally posted by K1ll3r
How? He can crush multiple beings at once and without time passing and with just a thought?

How pretentious. What are you ranting about?

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
How pretentious. What are you ranting about?

Pretentious? I was merely asking if Starkiller could in fact crush two beings, at the same time, all without any time passing.

Sure. You merely dropped the sentence in a lake of sarcasm first.

Galen has two hands. Not one. Therefore he can deal with two people at one time. His precognition removes the advantage of speed and his ability to repulse the Force and utterly destroy the scene of battle grant him advantages his enemies can not handle. His lightsaber suffice to battle of any bullet, arrow and projectile cast his way.

He can battle one enemy while choking the other. Choking require only one hand.

Okay, I am sorry, I offended you somehow.

Precognition is only anticipating an enemies moves, (or in advanced cases seeing the future). If someone can move faster then one can take in the precognition, then it is useless.

Starkiller: *Okay I know he is going to-*
Dante: *Stabs in face*

So while being choked, that person will do nothing to try and get out of the choke? For example Teleport\TK.

I'd be hard-pressed to give Starkiller the win in round 1.

Originally posted by K1ll3r
Okay, I am sorry, I offended you somehow.

Precognition is only anticipating an enemies moves, (or in advanced cases seeing the future). If someone can move faster then one can take in the precognition, then it is useless.

Starkiller: *Okay I know he is going to-*
Dante: *Stabs in face*

So while being choked, that person will do nothing to try and get out of the choke? For example Teleport\TK.

You didn't. You don't quite suffice for that. Sorry I made you believe so.

I've seen Dante in action but I weren't aware that he is as fast as you claim him to be. How I saw it transpire, Galen would open by repulsing the surrounding area and gain control of the situation. While Dante keeps distance from the repulsion, Galen grabs him and crushes his throat.

You are looking a little too much into the word "choke". If you think I think of the same process as that of Darth Vader in the movie, you're misstaking. I'm talking about a Darth Maul do-over. It's more a crush than a choke.

There definitely is no need for a team effort for Starkiller's fights.

Originally posted by LLLLLink
There definitely is no need for a team effort for Starkiller's fights. yes they will need all the help they can get.

...Nah, I dont think so.
Havent some of these chars already defeated Starkiller on these forums single-handedly?

Originally posted by LLLLLink
...Nah, I dont think so.
Havent some of these chars already defeated Starkiller on these forums single-handedly? God kratos.
He already beaten kain and sephiroth and link.

Lies. I already made sure he didnt beat Link.

Originally posted by LLLLLink
Lies. I already made sure he didnt beat Link. it was more of draw since no one debated on it.

Originally posted by LLLLLink
Lies. I already made sure he didnt beat Link.

How did you do that?

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
You didn't. You don't quite suffice for that. Sorry I made you believe so.

I've seen Dante in action but I weren't aware that he is as fast as you claim him to be. How I saw it transpire, Galen would open by repulsing the surrounding area and gain control of the situation. While Dante keeps distance from the repulsion, Galen grabs him and crushes his throat.

You are looking a little too much into the word "choke". If you think I think of the same process as that of Darth Vader in the movie, you're misstaking. I'm talking about a Darth Maul do-over. It's more a crush than a choke.

Awesome then, where I am from, sarcasm is usually VERY lighthearted.

--


I am just using videos and stuff posted on here for Dante: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f100/t464182.html

He seems very fast, in one video he is pivoting at his 'normal' speed and you can see falling glass suspended in midair from his point of view. He could fly through the repulse seeing as how fast his flightspeed is and because of his regenerative capabilities.

"Actually Dante's top speed of flight in high demonic form probably can reach 1% of light speed (according to some calculations)
His top combat/movement speed in human form is Max 2-3 as shown in DMC3, can probably be boosted higher with Alastor and Quickheart speed upgrades.
His speed in regular demon form (Devil Trigger), is variable, but speed of flight with Alastor/Nevan is supersonic (probably top speed is something around Max 10)."

I just grabbed that out of the thread, I don't know if it is true or not.

Also I am not sure if Starkiller could keep up with him in the force, or if that would require to much concentration to be effective. And if Dante was caught in a 'crush' he may be able to regenerate, or move out of it (due to his speeds).

Add in Kratos, who could be using his long as chain-swords to kill Starkiller as he does the repulse. (Although Starkiller would probably foresee this and change what he does, although avoiding this while being shot at\stabbed from dante will probably kill him.)

That I believe is the only reason Starkiller would lose, because at one point he would have to tip a little more concentration onto one of the opponents that he would give enough leverage for the other to kill him.

Kratos and Dante (If what you say about Dante is true) would prove a lot to deal with. I have my doubts he could pass through the repulse though but will not argue it. Galen needs only a second though to deal with Dante. Having his throat crushed would be his demise even if proved capable of regenerating from it. A lightsaber slash later and his head will roll. (Can't imagine him move out of it if he's caught. The grasp would still be there. He'd rip his own throat)

As I don't know who Mortal Pyron is, all I'll say is that Starkiller can kill any one opponent in this thread and all teams except possibly 1st. I'm holding onto my belief that he can take them as well, but I'll hold that to myself. I don't feel like debating it.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Kratos and Dante (If what you say about Dante is true) would prove a lot to deal with. I have my doubts he could pass through the repulse though but will not argue it. Galen needs only a second though to deal with Dante. Having his throat crushed would be his demise even if proved capable of regenerating from it. A lightsaber slash later and his head will roll. (Can't imagine him move out of it if he's caught. The grasp would still be there. He'd rip his own throat)

As I don't know who Mortal Pyron is, all I'll say is that Starkiller can kill any one opponent in this thread and all teams except possibly 1st. I'm holding onto my belief that he can take them as well, but I'll hold that to myself. I don't feel like debating it.

I also don't think he could take down Team 3. But I guess I won't debate that either xD.

That is the problem with this, that 'second' thought would be enough for Kratos or Dante to take advantage of less concentration being put on them.

He would have to always deal with both at the same time, as any lapse in concentration on either one would bring about a death.

Originally posted by K1ll3r
He seems very fast, in one video he is pivoting at his 'normal' speed and you can see falling glass suspended in midair from his point of view. He could fly through the repulse seeing as how fast his flightspeed is and because of his regenerative capabilities.

"Actually Dante's top speed of flight in high demonic form probably can reach 1% of light speed (according to some calculations)
His top combat/movement speed in human form is Max 2-3 as shown in DMC3, can probably be boosted higher with Alastor and Quickheart speed upgrades.
His speed in regular demon form (Devil Trigger), is variable, but speed of flight with Alastor/Nevan is supersonic (probably top speed is something around Max 10)."

I just grabbed that out of the thread, I don't know if it is true or not.

Also I am not sure if Starkiller could keep up with him in the force, or if that would require to much concentration to be effective. And if Dante was caught in a 'crush' he may be able to regenerate, or move out of it (due to his speeds).

Add in Kratos, who could be using his long as chain-swords to kill Starkiller as he does the repulse. (Although Starkiller would probably foresee this and change what he does, although avoiding this while being shot at\stabbed from dante will probably kill him.)

That I believe is the only reason Starkiller would lose, because at one point he would have to tip a little more concentration onto one of the opponents that he would give enough leverage for the other to kill him.

He pops Kratos' head. I'm sure he can't regenerate if The Apprentice put alot of pressure on his head. Besides, with The Force, he already knows what they will pull out. He probably could use The Force, and make the bullets go back. All he would really need to do is shock Kratos to death. And it would take long for him to choke one and deal with the other. He probably could take the weapon from Kratos. Honestly, all Galen has to do is make a gesture.

Yeah, that information is true.

Pyron on the other hand could punch him, and the reaction would be like a nuke.

Originally posted by The Valiant
He pops Kratos' head. I'm sure he can't regenerate if The Apprentice put alot of pressure on his head. Besides, with The Force, he already knows what they will pull out. He probably could use The Force, and make the bullets go back. All he would really need to do is shock Kratos to death. And it would take long for him to choke one and deal with the other. He probably could take the weapon from Kratos. Honestly, all Galen has to do is make a gesture.

Yeah, that information is true.

Pyron on the other hand could punch him, and the reaction would be like a nuke.

So you are saying, as he is popping someone head (making a gesture) Dante couldn't already be slicing through his face?

I seriously doubt he could take the weapons from Kratos, but even if he could and did, Dante would have killed him by the time he done it!

He can't make a gesture to hit something that he doesn't realise where it is. (Dantes speed).

He has to deal with both of them at exactly the same time, otherwise he is dead, they are both very durable and have very good reflexes. Plus Dantes speed it would be very very difficult for Starkiller to win.

Who to say he couldn't be stunning Dante with his lighting? Or be far away? It wouldn't take long for him to paralyze Kratos and throw the Lightsaber at him.

He easily takes it away with his TK. How?

He's fast, but i'm positive he's not invisible.

Kratos isn't all that durable. Yeah, I agree on the speed thing. As for Kratos, he'd probably shock him to death or Force Choke him, and he could be shocking Dante with 1 hand.

(I may not allow more "popping heads" so it can be a fair-fight. Not sure, though)

Star Killer Loses to Kratos and Dante 7/10, and the three times he moves on loses to Sephiroth and Link 2/3, I dunno about mortal Pyron, so I'm not calling that one.

My bet is he potentially clears, assuming he has time to recuperate between fights, 1/10. If he just goes from fight to fight to fight, he loses consistently before Pyron.

Originally posted by The Valiant
Who to say he couldn't be stunning Dante with his lighting? Or be far away? It wouldn't take long for him to paralyze Kratos and throw the Lightsaber at him.

He easily takes it away with his TK. How?

He's fast, but i'm positive he's not invisible.

Kratos isn't all that durable. Yeah, I agree on the speed thing. As for Kratos, he'd probably shock him to death or Force Choke him, and he could be shocking Dante with 1 hand.

(I may not allow more "popping heads" so it can be a fair-fight. Not sure, though)

Okay, so he stuns Dante with lightning while Kratos slices his head off with his chain blades?

Okay, because he can't take away his weapons while also stopping Dante.

I am also positive Starkiller hasn't reacted to speeds at which Dante can move.

He can't shock \ affect something with the force without knowing where the thing he is trying to hit is, I brang up him tracking Dante using the force however I think that would not be quick enough and Dante could slice him in half.

Eh, I'm leaning on Kratos and Dante take it 10/10, now, actually. Killer makes an excellent point.

Originally posted by K1ll3r
I am also positive Starkiller hasn't reacted to speeds at which Dante can move.

Faster than bullets?

Dante can shoot bullets as they come to him.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Eh, I'm leaning on Kratos and Dante take it 10/10, now, actually. Killer makes an excellent point.

Yay! I finally convinced someone of something! =D

I must be getting better at debating.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Dante can shoot bullets as they come to him.

Doesn't win him this fight.

Dante uses the Bangle of Time to stop time from moving. He is now the only character (of himself, Kratos, and Starkiller) that is aware or able to move. He cuts off Starkiller's head. The end.

Fair enough.

Galen versus either Kratos or Dante is a close fight, together they kill him.

If Dante can stop time then he can kill him alone.

I've recently gotten my hands on God of War 2 and have been playing, and I must say, if Dante and Kratos both use their time stops, its becomes spite.

Kratos doesn't have a time stopper. He has a time slow and he cannot use it unless a special kind of statue is nearby so it is kind of battlefield specific and requires a bias battlefield in his favor.

Dante's Bangle of Time can be used anywhere however.

the force is not just a thought it takes some type of concentration. even yoda wasnt that good.

Originally posted by SuperLuigi
the force is not just a thought it takes some type of concentration. even yoda wasnt that good.

Wasn't that good? How good is that then?

Wouldn't starkiller not be able to physiaclly harm Pyron, or if he can wouldnt his body reform itself instantly from everything?

'that good' meaning yoda still had to concentrate. the bigger the task the more concentration.

Originally posted by SuperLuigi
'that good' meaning yoda still had to concentrate. the bigger the task the more concentration.

Which task are you thinking about now then?

I think he makes it to pyron and loses, while he can't kill Dante he can temporarly beat him.

Originally posted by jalek moye
I think he makes it to pyron and loses, while he can't kill Dante he can temporarly beat him.

If Dante can freeze time, he can't beat him at all. He would most certainly be able to kill Dante otherwise. I doubt Dante regenerate from a lightsaber from head to heel if it should land.

So Mortal Pyron is a miniature Pyron?

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
If Dante can freeze time, he can't beat him at all. He would most certainly be able to kill Dante otherwise. I doubt Dante regenerate from a lightsaber from head to heel if it should land.

So Mortal Pyron is a miniature Pyron? yea mortal pyron is just one thats the size of a large human.

I've never seen dante freeze time, so i guess i dont remember that. and has dante ever had his head cut off?

I'll add something here:

Q'Anilia was a Miraluka. A race born blind. Yet they were considered among the most potent Jedi you could come across. The vision of eyes is eluding and no matter if you are visible, invisible or if you teleport you are not out of sight from a Jedi.

Especially not Jedi as powerful as Galen.


Galen was also able to bring down the Star Destroyer not because he was so strong, but because his link to the Force was so strong.

Yoda tricked a youngling once to move a heavy box. When the youngling approached the box to lift it, Yoda stopped her. He then told her to use the Force. The youngling used the Force and moved the box across the room. Yoda then asked her to lift it up with her hands, and she could not do it because it was too heavy. She was shocked that she could move such a heavy thing.
He said then that unlike a body, the Force is not limited by muscles. It was not heavy with the Force, because she did not expect it to be.

so you are telling me that he could generate the force faster that someone like yoda who has been doing this for hundreds of years?

What about mediclorians? And what is that race of creatures that cant be sensed by the Force?

Originally posted by SuperLuigi
so you are telling me that he could generate the force faster that someone like yoda who has been doing this for hundreds of years?

Generate the Force? Are you thinking of a move in particular?

Originally posted by LLLLLink
What about mediclorians? And what is that race of creatures that cant be sensed by the Force?

Not sure what exactly you're asking revolving the midi-chlorians.

The Yuuzhan-Vong is an anomaly of the Force. Easily compared to a mutation for humans. Little is explained of how exactly, but supposedly midi-chlorians does not touch these anomalistic beings.

can yoda do all the things that the apprentice did in the force unleashed with less effort?

I am not sure Yoda knew the repulse technique. I can't see where you're going with this.

Originally posted by The Valiant
Who to say he couldn't be stunning Dante with his lighting? Or be far away? It wouldn't take long for him to paralyze Kratos and throw the Lightsaber at him.

He easily takes it away with his TK. How?

He's fast, but i'm positive he's not invisible.

Kratos isn't all that durable. Yeah, I agree on the speed thing. As for Kratos, he'd probably shock him to death or Force Choke him, and he could be shocking Dante with 1 hand.

(I may not allow more "popping heads" so it can be a fair-fight. Not sure, though)

Exactly. Hes fast , not invisible. He beat Maris Brood who WAS invisible.




he has also been shown to deal with proxy pretty easily, and any "lapse in concentration" would be his demise.

Originally posted by SuperLuigi
can yoda do all the things that the apprentice did in the force unleashed with less effort?

Depending on how long he trained, it could be a possibility.

im just trying to understand how this great jedi trained by vader is so almighty.

The Dark Side is more powerful (this was said by Lucas).

Originally posted by OriginalA
Dante uses the Bangle of Time to stop time from moving. He is now the only character (of himself, Kratos, and Starkiller) that is aware or able to move. He cuts off Starkiller's head. The end.


Bangle of Time not allowed. Besides he has to lift his arm up, and by this time The Apprentice could have cut his head off.

Originally posted by K1ll3r
Okay, so he stuns Dante with lightning while Kratos slices his head off with his chain blades?

Okay, because he can't take away his weapons while also stopping Dante.

I am also positive Starkiller hasn't reacted to speeds at which Dante can move.

He can't shock \ affect something with the force without knowing where the thing he is trying to hit is, I brang up him tracking Dante using the force however I think that would not be quick enough and Dante could slice him in half.

Like I said, he could be using Force Choke on Kratos.

He could easily keep Dante in the air, paralyzed. Kratos, on the other hand, would be getting choked or something.

The Force is unescapable.

Dante is fast, but he is not invisible. If he can with his regeneration. He's already know what they're going to do. Besides, he can do that "tornado" thing, and blow them away. Who's to say Galen Malek couldn't take one of them into the air (and by "them" I mean Kratos)? It (probably) would take long for him to pop Kratos' head.

"Bangle of Time not allowed. Besides he has to lift his arm up, and by this time The Apprentice could have cut his head off."

Okay after a quick check to make sure you are the TC (I tire of random people that are not the TC making new rules) and seeing that you are in fact the TC I will drop the point, but I would like to point out that Dante doesn't actually have to touch the Bangle or life his arm. It just works when he wants it to work; thats what it does. You are thinking of Quicksilver from DMC 3. The Bangle of Time is from DMC 1.

No, it's The Bangle of Time.
nZZ-UvdXPGY&feature=channel_page

Originally posted by SuperLuigi
the force is not just a thought it takes some type of concentration. even yoda wasnt that good.

They rarely have to concentrate. "Wasn't that good"? He trained nearly every damn Jedi, if not all of the Jedis.

I sit corrected.

Infact he cannot beat Kain or Raziel, he stops at 2.

He makes it to 4 unless Dante freeze time. Otherwise stops at 1.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
The vision of eyes is eluding and no matter if you are visible, invisible or if you teleport

Yes, but has the force ever been used to track incredibly fast moving objects? Passively?

Because that is what he would need to keep track of Dante.

(To be able to decipher information at that speed you will need to be able to have comprehension able to keep up with it, although I am not sure how the Force works in this aspect you could probably shed some light on this.)

Originally posted by kotorfan
Exactly. Hes fast , not invisible. He beat Maris Brood who WAS invisible.

he has also been shown to deal with proxy pretty easily, and any "lapse in concentration" would be his demise.

Yeah, he beat him by sensing him using the force, what I am asking is: Can Starkiller keep up with someone with or without the force moving and operating at incredibly fast speeds (Lets say, Mach 1\2).

I am not sure what sort of feat that is (deal with proxy pretty easily).

Originally posted by K1ll3r
Yes, but has the force ever been used to track incredibly fast moving objects? Passively?

Because that is what he would need to keep track of Dante.

(To be able to decipher information at that speed you will need to be able to have comprehension able to keep up with it, although I am not sure how the Force works in this aspect you could probably shed some light on this.)

A talented Jedi can fight large groups of troopers with automatic laser rifles and deflect all lasers shot at him, so I'd say they are able to track incredibly fast moving objects passively.

Unless Dante moves significantly faster than bullets, he's not fast enough. Fast, but not fast enough to not end up a saber in his torso or a grip around his throat.

What aspect exactly is it you want some light over?

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
A talented Jedi can fight large groups of troopers with automatic laser rifles and deflect all lasers shot at him, so I'd say they are able to track incredibly fast moving objects passively.

Unless Dante moves significantly faster than bullets, he's not fast enough. Fast, but not fast enough to not end up a saber in his torso or a grip around his throat.

What aspect exactly is it you want some light over?

Yes, but what is the speed of a laser? Surely not as fast as some bullets.

I would say, yes, in most cases Dante has easily surpassed the speed of a bullet.

He would be hard-pressed to win all of the fights, and the fourth fight is impossible, nothing he could do could harm Pyron, he can just reform from everything and a punch from Pyron would literally be like being punched in the face with a nuke.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Infact he cannot beat Kain or Raziel, he stops at 2.

How? Already been proven he beats Kain. So, why not Raziel?

It was not actually proven, I just ignored the fact in the VS battle against Kain, theres nothing Starkiller can do to stop Kain from reforming with mist and evaluating his own possibilities and making up for his only weakness, speed, he could kill Starkiller with a wave of his hand, in the other fight I imagined Kain not being able to od anything to Starkillers speed but now I am not so sure, perhaps I got the impresion that Starkiller was more than he really is and if Kains body is destroyed, its easily reformed.

Raziel on the other hand would be undefeatable, all it would take is a reform back into the physical plane and Raziel returnsl, perhaps either Kain or Raziel will rematerialise inside Starkiller.

Originally posted by K1ll3r
Yeah, he beat him by sensing him using the force.


Maris Brood is a she. Dante is fast, but it's not like he goes as fast as Hancock.

Originally posted by Burning thought
It was not actually proven, I just ignored the fact in the VS battle against Kain, theres nothing Starkiller can do to stop Kain from reforming with mist and evaluating his own possibilities and making up for his only weakness, speed, he could kill Starkiller with a wave of his hand, in the other fight I imagined Kain not being able to od anything to Starkillers speed but now I am not so sure, perhaps I got the impresion that Starkiller was more than he really is and if Kains body is destroyed, its easily reformed.

Raziel on the other hand would be undefeatable, all it would take is a reform back into the physical plane and Raziel returnsl, perhaps either Kain or Raziel will rematerialise inside Starkiller.

Actually it has been proven. He pops his head. If his body is destroyed or whatever, tha can be considered as a win. Kill him with the wave of a hand? Prove it (Besides, Starkiler is too fast for Kain). Starkiller has faster reactions, paralyzes him, and cuts his head off (or his hand). Reform? When? Mist? This has only been seen in gameplay.

"Undefeatable" Raziel was easily defeated by the Hylden Lord in Defiance. Prove he can rematerialise inside him. He has never been seen to do this. And I never stated which Kain this was. If he is so-called undefeatable, then why would he reform back into the Physical Realm?

Originally posted by Burning thought
if Kains body is destroyed, its easily reformed.

When did he do this?

Lets just accept that Starkiller doesnt complete this. Fails at 1 imo...

Originally posted by LLLLLink
Lets just accept that Starkiller doesnt complete this. Fails at 1 imo...

Everyone has agreed that he doesn't complete it. The disagreement is where he stops

He atleasts makes it to fight #3.

Originally posted by The Valiant
He atleasts makes it to fight #3.

1st fight is his toughest, save 4th which he can't survive (In my opinion)

Originally posted by The Valiant


Actually it has been proven. He pops his head. If his body is destroyed or whatever, tha can be considered as a win. Kill him with the wave of a hand? Prove it (Besides, Starkiler is too fast for Kain). Starkiller has faster reactions, paralyzes him, and cuts his head off (or his hand). Reform? When? Mist? This has only been seen in gameplay.

"Undefeatable" Raziel was easily defeated by the Hylden Lord in Defiance. Prove he can rematerialise inside him. He has never been seen to do this. And I never stated which Kain this was. If he is so-called undefeatable, then why would he reform back into the Physical Realm?

So you think he could just pop pyrons head as well? theres a reason why Pyron having his head popped would make no diffrence to the match. Prove what? what feats of durability does starkiller have? Mist form is a known form, the fact its in gameplay is neither here nor there.

Because how can destroying the body of a being who can return fairly easily be a defeat for that being?

Originally posted by Burning thought
Because how can destroying the body of a being who can return fairly easily a defeat for that being?

Anakin killed Durge

How is that relevent? please make some sense

It's barely relevant, but an example that even the most unkillable can be slain with the proper usage of the Force

Originally posted by Burning thought
So you think he could just pop pyrons head as well? theres a reason why Pyron having his head popped would make no diffrence to the match. Prove what? what feats of durability does starkiller have? Mist form is a known form, the fact its in gameplay is neither here nor there.

Because how can destroying the body of a being who can return fairly easily be a defeat for that being?

Kain isn't Pyron. Prove he can kill him with the wave of his hand. It's gameplay, it doesn't count. Like, Kain has so many durability feats. If it does, how come he didn't reform in BO2, instead of being hurt for 200 years?

You claim he was undefeatable; Hylden Lord did it easily. Besides, if he goes to the Spectral Realm, he is defeated.

Originally posted by The Valiant
Kain isn't Pyron. Prove he can kill him with the wave of his hand. It's gameplay, it doesn't count. Like, Kain has so many durability feats. If it does, how come he didn't reform in BO2, instead of being hurt for 200 years?

You claim he was undefeatable; Hylden Lord did it easily. Besides, if he goes to the Spectral Realm, he is defeated.

You obviously have too little an intellect to understand what I am trying to say Gumachi. It does count because it is not a gameplay mechanic Gumachi . Unfortunaltey the thread starter did not state an exact Kain, so Ill just choose the latest within the rules, who can transform into mist at will and reform and any number of his weapons can kill Starkiller.


I disagree, going to the spectoral realm is no defeat for Raziel, no more than Pyron having to reform is for him.

Defiance Kain. Why didn't he turn into mist when he fought Raziel? And you still didn't answer my question on why didn't he reform at BO2.

If you're talking about when he uses the Reaver, and switches, then no. If you're talking about what the Hylden Lord did to him, then yes. Nice job ignoring most of what I said.

Originally posted by Burning thought
How is that relevent? please make some sense

In combat, Durge was a match for even Jedi Knights. His Gen'Dai abilities, coupled with his armor suit, allowed him to hold his own against almost any opponent. Durge's regenerative physique made him difficult to truly kill, and even when unarmed, with both hands chopped off, he presented a major threat to his enemies. Durge was incredibly strong. Once unleashed from his suit, he easily overpowered a squad of clone troopers trying to subdue him and was able to catch a swoop bike mid-flight and wield it as a club. He was no slouch in the speed department, as he could easily keep pace with skilled Jedi, dodging and blitzing even Obi Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker. Despite being hit with nine explosive charges in the face, he managed to keep fighting Anakin Skywalker in their duel above Maramere.

That wiki quote hardly give him credit at all. Durge regenerated from being nothing but a liquid stain on the floor

Originally posted by The Valiant
Defiance Kain. Why didn't he turn into mist when he fought Raziel? And you still didn't answer my question on why didn't he reform at BO2.

If you're talking about when he uses the Reaver, and switches, then no. If you're talking about what the Hylden Lord did to him, then yes. Nice job ignoring most of what I said.



In combat, Durge was a match for even Jedi Knights. His Gen'Dai abilities, coupled with his armor suit, allowed him to hold his own against almost any opponent. Durge's regenerative physique made him difficult to truly kill, and even when unarmed, with both hands chopped off, he presented a major threat to his enemies. Durge was incredibly strong. Once unleashed from his suit, he easily overpowered a squad of clone troopers trying to subdue him and was able to catch a swoop bike mid-flight and wield it as a club. He was no slouch in the speed department, as he could easily keep pace with skilled Jedi, dodging and blitzing even Obi Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker. Despite being hit with nine explosive charges in the face, he managed to keep fighting Anakin Skywalker in their duel above Maramere.

Yes I did answer the quetion, you obviously did not understand it, perhaps ill point out the fact BO2 Kain did not have as advanced a mist power as current Kain, also BO2 Kain was knocked out, not killed or badly damaged physically.

I ignored what you said? the Hylden lord destroyed his body and flew away, unfortunatley for Starkiller he cannot just fly away or escape this battle, so Raziel will just return and destroy him.

That says nothing of invulerability to the degree of Raziel, thats nothing compared to being able to have your body destroyed yet still return because your spiritual essence is your entity, not your physical form. Much like Kain.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
That wiki quote hardly give him credit at all. Durge regenerated from being nothing but a liquid stain on the floor

And this does not compare either. Although curiously, it is still irrelvent because its likely the way he was defeated was very specific to him, or the environment.

Originally posted by Burning thought
And this does not compare either. Although curiously, it is still irrelvent because its likely the way he was defeated was very specific to him, or the environment.

True, so true. It is quite irrelevant. I'm merely bringing him up due to my newfound interest in him and francly looked for an excuse to mention him

Yet he's fine proof that no enemy is unkillable with the proper creativity and methods.

Well considering this environment is not set out it may be less useful, perhaps if there were some star wars objects and machines for Starkiller to put to use, or another type of weapon added into the mix then pehaps he would have more advantages although its obvious straight away he fails at Pyron.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Yes I did answer the quetion, you obviously did not understand it, perhaps ill point out the fact BO2 Kain did not have as advanced a mist power as current Kain, also BO2 Kain was knocked out, not killed or badly damaged physically.

I ignored what you said? the Hylden lord destroyed his body and flew away, unfortunatley for Starkiller he cannot just fly away or escape this battle, so Raziel will just return and destroy him.

That says nothing of invulerability to the degree of Raziel, thats nothing compared to being able to have your body destroyed yet still return because your spiritual essence is your entity, not your physical form. Much like Kain.

No you didn't. He never fought Raziel in BO2. So? He still could have reformed. Sorry, Kain was injured so bad, that he was in a coma for 200 years. So he had to be hurt, physically.

Return? You just said he couldn't die. Which isn't allowed in the first place. Yeah, you claimed he couldn't die, but how did the Hylden Lord destroy his body so easily? He destroyed his body, and he ended up in the Spectral Realm (in other words, he died). "Life, Death, and Rebirth"-Elder God. If he is invulerable, how can he die? The only time he couldn't die is when he had the Soul Reaver.

If he is invulerable how can he die? Once again, this isn't allowed. Yeah, he still died. Just like when Kain throwed him into the Abyss. Kain was hurt so bad...that he was in a coma for 200 years. Durge wasn't even injured from the damage he took. He can only return, if he escapes the Spirit Realm (which anyone could probably do). It's not like he returns from nonething.

Originally posted by The Valiant
Maris Brood is a she. Dante is fast, but it's not like he goes as fast as Hancock.

I am not sure how fast Hancock can go, but from Dantes perspective with some sword, falling glass is standing still as he pivots around and swings his sword, Starkiller wouldn't even be seeing or sensing these actions.

Add on his flight speed is faster then most bullets and projectiles, it would be almost impossible for Starkiller to keep up with Dante WHILE Kratos is a threat.

I highly doubt he could make it past 1 alive, let alone 3.

The Valiant is Gumachi?

And as far as reactions go, Dante is FASTER than Hancock.

Originally posted by K1ll3r
I am not sure how fast Hancock can go, but from Dantes perspective with some sword, falling glass is standing still as he pivots around and swings his sword, Starkiller wouldn't even be seeing or sensing these actions.

Add on his flight speed is faster then most bullets and projectiles, it would be almost impossible for Starkiller to keep up with Dante WHILE Kratos is a threat.

I highly doubt he could make it past 1 alive, let alone 3.

Point being? Dante wouldn't sense The Force. No, i'm not. Hancock can move SuperSonic speed (<=Mach 5 (5 times faster than sound).

Why wasn't he that fast in DMC2? When he flew away(cutscene)?

In that clip of him with the falling glass (Alastor), he is moving around.

Not to mention he can travel at Mach 2 speeds. Which isn't as fast as Hancock. But much faster then most bullets.

Originally posted by The Valiant
SuperSonic speed (<=Mach 5 (5 times faster than sound). Um, sir, that is NOT supersonic speed.

Supersonic speed is anything above Mach 1 and below mach 5.

When you get to Mach 5 you are moving at HYPERSONIC speed.

He was moving the sword around.

Where did you get this info about Nero's guns going this fast?

I'm worried about Dante. Because, from you point, he sounds to be touch much of a threat. Which is why he needs to take Kratos out first.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Um, sir, that is NOT supersonic speed.

Supersonic speed is anything above Mach 1 and below mach 5.

When you get to Mach 5 you are moving at HYPERSONIC speed.

WHATEVER IT IS, he is faster than Dante.

Originally posted by The Valiant
He was moving the sword around.

Where did you get this info about Nero's guns going this fast?

I'm worried about Dante. Because, from you point, he sounds to be touch much of a threat. Which is why he needs to take Kratos out first.

He pivoted a full 90 degrees, so basically he turned around REALLY REALLY FAST: he moved his legs really really fast.

I didn't mention Nero's gun.

Yeah, that is what i'm saying but I don't know much about Kratos so someone else would have to come up with something for him.

Not in reaction-time.

Movement, yeah.

Originally posted by K1ll3r
He pivoted a full 90 degrees, so basically he turned around REALLY REALLY FAST: he moved his legs really really fast.

I didn't mention Nero's gun.

Yeah, that is what i'm saying but I don't know much about Kratos so someone else would have to come up with something for him.

H3R6iBvNStA Wouldn't it be easier if he just speed-blitzed his enemies? He must've moved his legs fast, if he turned on fire. He seemed NOT to be moving his legs at all, lol (or very little). So, bascially, you're saying he ("he"=Starkiller) isn't fast? I mean, Nero was able to keep up with Dante. XR4DghsrJss I admit if they hold blades, that would probably kill Galen.

My mistake.

Well, he could take Kratos up to the sky, and cut his head off or something.

@NemeBro: If I remember, we really haven't seen Hancock react to anything.

Off-Topic: You think he could run on water?

Originally posted by The Valiant
H3R6iBvNStA Wouldn't it be easier if he just speed-blitzed his enemies? He must've moved his legs fast, if he turned on fire. He seemed NOT to be moving his legs at all, lol (or very little). So, bascially, you're saying he ("he"=Starkiller) isn't fast? I mean, Nero was able to keep up with Dante.

My mistake.

Well, he could take Kratos up to the sky, and cut his head off or something.

@NemeBro: If I remember, we really haven't seen Hancock react to anything.

Off-Topic: You think he could run on water?

Well, Starkiller is very fast as well, but nowhere near the speeds of Dante.

I was using that as a based point of his speed, like I said he turns around in that clip basically saying to me he can operate at those speeds.

But not including that he can also move at speeds of Mach 1 and 2 if the force can help him sense someone moving at that speed then he may have a chance here, but he can't take his concentration of Dante or Kratos for a second. He would literally need to take care of Dante and Kratos at the same time (i.e Crushing Dante and Kratos at the same time).

Off-topic: Probably, but i'm not sure of the speed required to do so xD.

Fair enough.

The only thing I know is that, with The Force, he knows what they are going to do. I don't now if can. Like said, he has two hands. Which is why I said he could take Kratos in the sky.

(Lightsaber is probably too thin)





Yeah, Dante stomps Starkiller. I forgot about his Demonic Aura.

Originally posted by The Valiant
No you didn't. He never fought Raziel in BO2. So? He still could have reformed. Sorry, Kain was injured so bad, that he was in a coma for 200 years. So he had to be hurt, physically.

Return? You just said he couldn't die. Which isn't allowed in the first place. Yeah, you claimed he couldn't die, but how did the Hylden Lord destroy his body so easily? He destroyed his body, and he ended up in the Spectral Realm (in other words, he died). "Life, Death, and Rebirth"-Elder God. If he is invulerable, how can he die? The only time he couldn't die is when he had the Soul Reaver.

If he is invulerable how can he die? Once again, this isn't allowed. Yeah, he still died. Just like when Kain throwed him into the Abyss. Kain was hurt so bad...that he was in a coma for 200 years. Durge wasn't even injured from the damage he took. He can only return, if he escapes the Spirit Realm (which anyone could probably do). It's not like he returns from nonething.

You ignored my point again, is there any point in replying to you? lol...no...And Raziel is no concern to Kain...and Kain was damaged or destroyed in BO2, and in both BO2 and in the fight with Raziel, Kain was knocked out for a duration so he could not reform, and woud not reform anyway.

He is already practically dead, and I said being knocked into spectorla is not a defeat for Raziel.

You never said Raziel returning was not allowed, perhaps you should remove half of your beloved Dantes powers since they can defeat Starkiller as well......

Either way, Kain has too much control over his structure to be defeated by Starkiller, he could destroy him merely by reforming inside of him. Splat!

My point exactly. You still haven't shown me when he can reform. "also BO2 Kain was knocked out, not killed or badly damaged physically. "

I don't remember you saying anything about being knocked into the Spectral Realm.

If he is "invincible" there wouldn't be a point in returning, Burning Thought. Maybe I should.

He would get his head popped. Why hasn't he shown to do this? Why hasn't he done this? Why didn't he do this throughout the LoK games?

Originally posted by The Valiant
My point exactly. You still haven't shown me when he can reform. "also BO2 Kain was knocked out, not killed or badly damaged physically. "

I don't remember you saying anything about being knocked into the Spectral Realm.

If he is "invincible" there wouldn't be a point in returning, Burning Thought. Maybe I should.

He would get his head popped. Why hasn't he shown to do this? Why hasn't he done this? Why didn't he do this throughout the LoK games?

wtf, he reforms all the time, from mist to flesh in an instant, he uses it as a form of dodge in Defiance and as a way to get over obstacles in Blood omen 1, he can also pass through objects such as gates while in this form.

Ive been referring to it all along, if Raziels body is destroyed, he will reform.

Being able to reform almost instantly from your physical form being destroyed is not really being killed, so in a way it is invincibility.

You mean the mist will be distorted by Maleks force powers, then Kain will reform back to his physical mass inside Malek, exploding him. And shown to do what exactley? transform into mist? ive shown this many times and its a basic ability used from the beginning of defiance.....

Not to mention I am debating this from the point of view that Galens reactions are instant and furthermore can use his force powers in that single reaction, but all the star wars films show us that this is not the case, even Yoda has to concentrate and even aim his hands in the direction for a few seconds before he can make objects levitate, let alone make someones head or body implode, take into account that person is moving physicaly quicker than most and it would be harder to concentrate at all, then take into account half the time Kain will be mist or teleporting, he will be literally immune to Maleks powers.

Show me. "Mist to dodge" isn't reforming.

Reform? He just returns to the Physical plane.

Prove he can. Why hasn't he shown to do this before?

If I remember, correctly, all he has to do is make a gesture. I mean, Kain was hit by Raziel, lol. Isn't The Force unescapable?

Originally posted by The Valiant
Show me. "Mist to dodge" isn't reforming.

Reform? He just returns to the Physical plane.

Prove he can. Why hasn't he shown to do this before?

If I remember, correctly, all he has to do is make a gesture. I mean, Kain was hit by Raziel, lol. Isn't The Force unescapable?

What so your telling me Kain stays as mist once he transforms? dont be ridiculous, he turns into mist, then he reforms physical.

yes, his body just becomes spectoral then he recreates it when he returns.

Prove what? stupid question, if Kain can reform from mist, which is obvious then the place where he does it may as well be inside Malek. I am just using an already excisting power/ability for a difrent purpose.

The force is like TK to me anyway, fact is Yoda has to concentrate, Dooku had to concentrate for about a second, anyone who thinks Malek is more powerful in the force than Yoda please step forward and give your reasons, i may not be a Star wars buff but I know full well yoda is supposed to be powerful, surely no apprentice of Darth vader is stronger than him in the force.

Your asking me like youve not seen star wars, I am sure anyone can recollect Luke skywalker, Yoda, Vader all having to concentrate, especially the first two.

with the force a jedi can SOMETIMES see into the future.

Originally posted by Burning thought

The force is like TK to me anyway, fact is Yoda has to concentrate, Dooku had to concentrate for about a second, anyone who thinks Malek is more powerful in the force than Yoda please step forward and give your reasons, i may not be a Star wars buff but I know full well yoda is supposed to be powerful, surely no apprentice of Darth vader is stronger than him in the force.

Your asking me like youve not seen star wars, I am sure anyone can recollect Luke skywalker, Yoda, Vader all having to concentrate, especially the first two.

i recollect

Originally posted by Burning thought
What so your telling me Kain stays as mist once he transforms? dont be ridiculous, he turns into mist, then he reforms physical.

yes, his body just becomes spectoral then he recreates it when he returns.

Prove what? stupid question, if Kain can reform from mist, which is obvious then the place where he does it may as well be inside Malek. I am just using an already excisting power/ability for a difrent purpose.

The force is like TK to me anyway, fact is Yoda has to concentrate, Dooku had to concentrate for about a second, anyone who thinks Malek is more powerful in the force than Yoda please step forward and give your reasons, i may not be a Star wars buff but I know full well yoda is supposed to be powerful, surely no apprentice of Darth vader is stronger than him in the force.

Your asking me like youve not seen star wars, I am sure anyone can recollect Luke skywalker, Yoda, Vader all having to concentrate, especially the first two.

No.

Exactly. You can't prove it. You can't prove: "Kain will reform back to his physical mass inside Malek, exploding him. " Hasn't shown to do this at all. I'm using Defiance-Kain. So? He only dodges attacks in mist form. Hell, you still haven't shown me where he reforms.

And? Dark-Side is more powerful than the "Light-Side" which was said by Lucas (no proof Yoda is more powerful). He probably is more powerful. Funny how you say they had to concentrate, but I was looking in the Kratos & Dante vs Kain thread, and you claimed Kain didn't need to focuse. Nice job being a hyprocrite. Just because Yoda had to concentrate doesn't mean Galen does. Yeah, he didn't have to concentrate throughout TFU. And the only time he DID, is when he brought down the Star Destroyer. He had to concentrate for about a second. Do you know how ****ing stupid you sound? He pops his head before he can do anything. He easily got hit by Raziel, and if he can mist, why didn't he do it

Originally posted by Burning thought
The force is like TK to me anyway, fact is Yoda has to concentrate, Dooku had to concentrate for about a second, anyone who thinks Malek is more powerful in the force than Yoda please step forward and give your reasons, i may not be a Star wars buff but I know full well yoda is supposed to be powerful, surely no apprentice of Darth vader is stronger than him in the force.

*Stepping forward*

Galen Marek is more powerful than Yoda in the Force.

starkiller is not stronger then yoda in the force canonically hes not even stronger then Vader in the force. lucasarts has said that starkiller is not even stronger then return of the jedi sideous in the force why would he be strogner then yoda who is sideous equal?

Possibly more powerful than Vader, considering his lost limbs and all.

Originally posted by WO Polaski
starkiller is not stronger then yoda in the force canonically hes not even stronger then Vader in the force. lucasarts has said that starkiller is not even stronger then return of the jedi sideous in the force why would he be strogner then yoda who is sideous equal? Starkiller beat Vader. So he is stronger.

He held his own briefly against Sidious.

Return of the Jedi Sidious is many years after ROTS.

thats bad logic.

he died against sideous. after the fight he was dead and sideous was completely unharmed. he wasnt bleeding or anything. he wasnt even breathing hard.

return of the jedi sideous is weaker then revenge of the sith sideous but returns sideous was still stronger then galen is my point. return of the sith sideous which is palpatines peak in strength aside from dark empire wasn't strong enough to defeat yoda in a force duel. so galen lost to the weaker version while yoda stalemated the stronger one.

In that form, yes. But remember, his initial midiclorian count as Anakin was far greater than what it was as Vader.

Originally posted by WO Polaski
thats bad logic.

he died against sideous. after the fight he was dead and sideous was completely unharmed. he wasnt bleeding or anything. he wasnt even breathing hard.

return of the jedi sideous is weaker then revenge of the sith sideous but returns sideous was still stronger then galen is my point. return of the sith sideous which is palpatines peak in strength aside from dark empire wasn't strong enough to defeat yoda in a force duel. so galen lost to the weaker version while yoda stalemated the stronger one. 1. Why? Galen Marek beat Vader, breaking his suit and whatnot. Vader lost. Clearly Galen is superior to Vader.

2. Funny. I recall Galen Marek defeating Sidious at first, then when they clashed and Galen held back Palpatine's Force Lightning attempted to kill him in some pseudo-self destruct Force attack, which did fail.

3. Where was it stated RotJ Sidious was weaker than ROTS Sidious? And Yoda lost to Sidious.

Originally posted by NemeBro
1. Why? Galen Marek beat Vader, breaking his suit and whatnot. Vader lost. Clearly Galen is superior to Vader.

because he was in a different state when he fought both vader and sideous. the first time galen was powerless to resist vader shoving him out of an air-lock and he didn't gain any additional training for the second fight. and in that same fight vader embarrassed him several times with the force, at one point enveloping him in a tornado like thing and making him swirl around and shit.



you recall wrong. sideous was never in any danger.



yoda lost to sideous because he was standing on the edge... im not even gonna go over it lol here.

nm.

Didn't Vader have 8/10 of the Empereor's power? Starkiller topped everyone (even Durge).

whose durge?

Google him for more info.

Originally posted by The Valiant
No.

Exactly. You can't prove it. You can't prove: "Kain will reform back to his physical mass inside Malek, exploding him. " Hasn't shown to do this at all. I'm using Defiance-Kain. So? He only dodges attacks in mist form. Hell, you still haven't shown me where he reforms.

And? Dark-Side is more powerful than the "Light-Side" which was said by Lucas (no proof Yoda is more powerful). He probably is more powerful. Funny how you say they had to concentrate, but I was looking in the Kratos & Dante vs Kain thread, and you claimed Kain didn't need to focuse. Nice job being a hyprocrite. Just because Yoda had to concentrate doesn't mean Galen does. Yeah, he didn't have to concentrate throughout TFU. And the only time he DID, is when he brought down the Star Destroyer. He had to concentrate for about a second. Do you know how ****ing stupid you sound? He pops his head before he can do anything. He easily got hit by Raziel, and if he can mist, why didn't he do it

Ofcourse I have, the act of transforming his particles into vapour THEN transforming them into his true form REFORMING back into his physical form is a feat of mastery and control over your physical form to a degree of transformation. Your not even listening to yourself, your asking for proof of Kain reforming when he has to reform in the first place otherwise he would be stuck in mist form, wally.....

Because Kain does not use the force lol......Go and find the evidence of Galen instantly using the force then

Stupid? definaltey not half as stupid as you....I dont assume Kain remains in mist form and does not reform, I dont play "silly bugger" all the time because I have no real arguments Gumachi...

Because he was not trying to fighht Raziel, PIS.

Originally posted by WO Polaski
whose durge? A bounty hunter. Not sure why he was mentioned there

For the record, Marek is more powerful then Vader, both in game and out. In the novel, they fight evenly at first becuase Galen's still not 100% and isn't focused, but then he gets clarity and pimps him, disarming him with the force, lifting him into the air and throwing missiles at him, culminating in a freakin' energy shield generator.

However, numerous sources state that he was no match for Sidious at all. Even his final kamikaze attack, right next to the Emperor, which shreds stormtroopers does nothing more then singe his cloak.

Haden Blackman claim Galen Marek to be a top tier user of the Force. He also described him as a character with unlimited potentials and that could very well have become the greatest Force user of all time. Yoda, wise and powerful as he is, does not come near that.
Not only does Haden Blackman imply Galen Marek above Darth Vader, but any accomplishments by Galen Marek support these words. He's been compared to Luke Skywalker in terms of power. He has for a fact defeated both Darth Vader and Shaak Ti.

Because Yoda is as old as he is, as wise as he is and the person that he is, he's often believed to be so much more than he has actually proved himself to be. He's a powerful Jedi master, but many has done far more impressive things with the Force than he has.

darth vader will never be 100% after obi wan sliced him up.

Really?

after anakin lost his limbs he became more machine losing alot of his connection to the force plus he cant even use the force lightning because it could electrocute him.

That was almost right. Thumbs up for you

Darth Vader did indeed become limited after the incident with Obi-Wan. The prosthetics limbs dampen the flow of Force through his body, limiting his capabilities, but electrocution is wrong. In addition, Darth Vader HAS used Force lightning at numerous occasions despite his condition. Luke Skywalker had a prosthetics hand and he could also use lightning.

isnt that how he died from the force lightning?

He died from Darth Sidious lightning, not his own. His mechanical body made him weak to the lightning when applied on him by others. The mechanic status amplified the damage and became his undoing.

I thought it was because he did that blast thing.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Ofcourse I have, the act of transforming his particles into vapour THEN transforming them into his true form REFORMING back into his physical form is a feat of mastery and control over your physical form to a degree of transformation. Your not even listening to yourself, your asking for proof of Kain reforming when he has to reform in the first place otherwise he would be stuck in mist form, wally.....

Because Kain does not use the force lol......Go and find the evidence of Galen instantly using the force then

Stupid? definaltey not half as stupid as you....I dont assume Kain remains in mist form and does not reform, I dont play "silly bugger" all the time because I have no real arguments Gumachi...

Because he was not trying to fighht Raziel, PIS.

No...you...have...not. Show me. I have only seen him reform in gameplay. If he is invincible, it WOULD NOT be a point for him to reform. He takes The Reaver from him, easily.

Play the damn games. Oh, and it's already been proven Galen Malek>Yoda.

Yeah, and you're just making up bullshit lies. Prove i'm Gumachi. Doesn't use the force? STFU. TK is still TK. Yeah, he had to concentrate from pulling down a Star Destroyer. You act like Kain is uber-powerful or something.

It looked like he was to me. He started to get serious soon after talking with Raziel.

Its a move/ability and its canon, cutscenes are not the only canon, simple fact.

lmao, you tell me to go and play the games for your evidence yet you will not do the same for mine? bullshit....get lost

lol, I think you have already proven you are Gumachi, your text and the way you type and constantly ask blundering questions is almost a mimic of him, and if you are not him, I will call you it anyway because calling you Gumachi is the best insult this forum can have. He is uber powerful.

Well thats because you do not understand the Legacy of Kain, nor do you understand Kains entire plan throughout all the games form the beginning is to use Raziel to achieve his destiny, not to kill Raziel.

Originally posted by The Valiant
Play the damn games. Oh, and it's already been proven Galen Malek>Yoda.

Wouldn't say proven. Strongly believed with good reason. Yoda is by no means weak, but it's really hard to compare two characters just like that. Yoda was wise and very cunning, and would know how to use the Force more efficiently, but Galen Marek is stronger in the Force and, according to Obsidian Fury stated by author to be top tier.

Although Obsidian fury did say in the novels and canon that he barely harmed Sidious, Yoda could without a doubt combe close to Sidious' power and actually is a threat to him. Its not like it actually matters, the point is that the force does not happen instantly, it takes some concentration and focus.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Its a move/ability and its canon, cutscenes are not the only canon, simple fact.

lmao, you tell me to go and play the games for your evidence yet you will not do the same for mine? bullshit....get lost

lol, I think you have already proven you are Gumachi, your text and the way you type and constantly ask blundering questions is almost a mimic of him, and if you are not him, I will call you it anyway because calling you Gumachi is the best insult this forum can have. He is uber powerful.

Well thats because you do not understand the Legacy of Kain, nor do you understand Kains entire plan throughout all the games form the beginning is to use Raziel to achieve his destiny, not to kill Raziel.

Why didn't he use it when he fought Raziel?

You want to find out, find your own damn evidence. I'm too lazy to go find any cutscenes.

That doesn't prove anything. Yeah, he has trouble fighting weak ass vampires.

So?

It's bascially is proven Galen is better (stronger or whatever).

Kain never actually has trouble fighting anyone....

I am sorry, but in no manner, or form do I have to find any evidence for your side of the argument which leaves me currently undisputed in the thread.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Kain never actually has trouble fighting anyone....

I am sorry, but in no manner, or form do I have to find any evidence for your side of the argument which leaves me currently undisputed in the thread.
Would proof of instant use of the Force satisfy you? Or would you once providen proof ask for so much more proof than you ever provide others yourself? Because if given time, I can sniff out scans that prove instant use of the Force.

He did against Raziel, or he wouldn't have ended in the Demon Realm.

Undisputed my ass. You ignored post of my posts. He instantly popped someone's head, there (instantly using The Force...does that even make sense?). If he didn't want to kill Raziel, he wouldn't have throwed him into The Abyss.

Originally posted by The Valiant
He did against Raziel, or he wouldn't have ended in the Demon Realm.

Undisputed my ass. You ignored post of my posts. He instantly popped someone's head, there (instantly using The Force...does that even make sense?). If he didn't want to kill Raziel, he wouldn't have throwed him into The Abyss.

He did what? your not making any sense....

lol, he had him thrown into the abyss, it was all part of his plan, as the rest of the game shows, he needs Raziel as a wraith, because obvioulsy the soul reaver would never have excisted without him.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Would proof of instant use of the Force satisfy you? Or would you once providen proof ask for so much more proof than you ever provide others yourself? Because if given time, I can sniff out scans that prove instant use of the Force.

I would like to see Galen Marik himself use the force instantly, something powerful or enough to break someone into piecies at least, then I would be sustained.

Originally posted by Burning thought
He did what? your not making any sense....

lol, he had him thrown into the abyss, it was all part of his plan, as the rest of the game shows, he needs Raziel as a wraith, because obvioulsy the soul reaver would never have excisted without him.

He had trouble beating Raziel. If I remember, he had trouble in SR2, also.

"His plan" I thought he did it because Raziel surpassed Kain. And that it was "all-suppost-to-happen" type of thing.

Hes never had trouble in beating Raziel, hell in the intro we see Kain quite casually beating the cr@p out of him and laughing about it. Grabbing him by the neck, launching him across the room etc

Ofcourse it was supposed ot happen, and that was what it seemed to Raziel, however the actual event is explained in depth later on in the game. Kain knew Raziel would return.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I would like to see Galen Marik himself use the force instantly, something powerful or enough to break someone into piecies at least, then I would be sustained.

That I can not provide. I haven't read FU and I don't think such scans exist.

But anyway, blasting Kain into bits would be worthless considering Kain can transform and transmute and even control his bodies form from physical flesh to water vapour. From droplets of water to flesh would be beyond just being in pieces, its the same as being in particles AND in a different form.

If Kain started reforming himself from the mist inside Malek, theres nothing Malek could do, hell...he could just condense the mist into the guys body, it cant be healthy.

Even if your quite so weak theory would be proper, Kain would return a little smaller every time he reform due to a decreasing amount of liquid to work from. A lightsaber slash will vaporize particles and so will shattering Kain with the Force do.

Mist although incorporeal is not a safe form for Kain. Incorporeal substances is not untouchable for the Force. Galen could with utter ease keep Kain from coming anywhere near his body in any shape or form: liquid or mist.

until it is proven without any doubt stop saying the apprentice is strong in the force than yoda.

Originally posted by SuperLuigi
until it is proven without any doubt stop saying the apprentice is strong in the force than yoda.

Let me respond you like this: Prove that Yoda is stronger than Galen. We have examples that put Galen above Yoda. You strongly believe Yoda is above Galen, so obviously you have proof for this. Bring it.

im not the one making the claims. you are. so until you can prove that in fact starkiller, the apprentice, galen is stronger in the force than yoda do not use it as basis for your argument.

Originally posted by SuperLuigi
im not the one making the claims. you are. so until you can prove that in fact starkiller, the apprentice, galen is stronger in the force than yoda do not use it as basis for your argument.

Very well. Yoda strained with Luke's ship. Galen brought down a Star Destroyer. Galen showed great precision when he through the Force dismantled and reassembled his lightsaber, which consist of hundreds of tiny components. A touch for detail Yoda has never shown. He could slay a rancor with his lightning. He was, like Yoda, able to see the future. The author compared him to Luke Skywalker, who's way more powerful than Yoda.

Now what do you got?

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Even if your quite so weak theory would be proper, Kain would return a little smaller every time he reform due to a decreasing amount of liquid to work from. A lightsaber slash will vaporize particles and so will shattering Kain with the Force do.

Mist although incorporeal is not a safe form for Kain. Incorporeal substances is not untouchable for the Force. Galen could with utter ease keep Kain from coming anywhere near his body in any shape or form: liquid or mist.

quite so weak? its not theory at all, its what Kain does on a regulour basis, what is theoreticle about it? mist form is a common move. And no, water vapour will simply become more vapour if slashed with a lightsaber, as you said "vapourise" you will simply be making yet more vapour, making it more impossible for Malek to know which part of hte mist is actually Kain.

Can you show me a force user controlling vapour in such a way? do we know Galen has this power if it exists?

riddle me this master jedi, if galen was so much more powerful in the force than yoda then why didnt he kill sidious with that little explosion? because yoda and sidious were nearly equals, if i heard correctly, meaning the more powerful galen should have been able to kill sidious.

Yoda had more important things to do that put together a lightsaber with the force.

galen didnt instantly pull down the star destroyer it took a lot concentration. plus gravity was on his side. whereas yoda was working against gravity and water pressure.

galen himself said sometimes "jedi" can see into the future. that trait is not limited to him and yoda.

When Marek was about 7 yrs old he telekinetically stole Vaders lightsaber by accident. Throughout the book he uses the force with no more than a 'wave of his hand' at one point sending someone to sleep with one. When having a force vision the whole ship begins to shake and things start to float just becuase he's distressed.

Other instances of instant force use: Luke pins his nephew to the floor without looking at him, building up the force or making any gesture (this is specifically mentioned). Kas'im (a force-weakling) blasts open a heavy stone door while in a vicious lightsaber duel. Darth Zannah snaps two jedi's necks just by getting angry at them when she's 8. She later disintegrates her cousins arm by lashing out in a panic, like flailing a limb. Darth Bane disintegrates numerous techno-beasts while in combat with them. Those last two are comparable to Mareks strength level.

So yeah, the Force doesn't always need to be charged up all the time, but it becomes more powerful when it is, like in the game.

And my opinion is that Marek and Yoda are about as powerful as each other. I think Yodas best TK feat was lifting up 2 400meter ships, but I've heard talk of mountains. The difference is that Marek has been taught to use the Force instinctively. But Yoda does use it instantly at times too, like when he blocked Sidious' lightning in ROTS.