Aegis VS Dark phoenix

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stormultt
which one of these cosmic beings can come out on top of a star smashing world devouring fight..

Enyalus
Dark Phoenix.

Reed said she had power to rival Galactus and it was growing...

xJLxKing
Originally posted by Enyalus
Dark Phoenix.

Reed said she had power to rival Galactus and it was growing...
Isn't she greater?

Enyalus
Originally posted by xJLxKing
Isn't she greater?
You've got conflicting statements in the same arc, even. Uatu said she was the second greatest power in creation (Well, he said that of the Phoenix Force). Then you have Reed saying that her power rivals Galactus, and was increasing as she fed.

IMO, the Phoenix Force trumps Galactus. There isn't much on-panel evidence to support that conclusion, though. Rachel beating a starving Galactus and then another time Galactus being able to erase the Phoenix Force from existence, but choosing not to.

*shrug*

guy222
DP

xJLxKing
Originally posted by Enyalus
You've got conflicting statements in the same arc, even. Uatu said she was the second greatest power in creation (Well, he said that of the Phoenix Force). Then you have Reed saying that her power rivals Galactus, and was increasing as she fed.

IMO, the Phoenix Force trumps Galactus. There isn't much on-panel evidence to support that conclusion, though. Rachel beating a starving Galactus and then another time Galactus being able to erase the Phoenix Force from existence, but choosing not to.

*shrug*
In my opinion, Phoenix is just stronger. And if I remember Dark PH> regular PH

Enyalus
Originally posted by xJLxKing
In my opinion, Phoenix is just stronger. And if I remember Dark PH> regular PH
thumb up

kgkg
DP

Lord Feron
DP also when did Galactus choose not to erase PF from existence? Like really he would be able to do that? Was it under special Circumstances?

Xplosive
Dark Phoenix.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
DP also when did Galactus choose not to erase PF from existence? Like really he would be able to do that? Was it under special Circumstances?

It was when Phoenix willingly gave up to Galactus, so that she would protect her friends. Galactus was trying to absorb and stars began fading. Then Death or Eternity or Roma (I am not sure) came and said Galactus shouldn't do that, because of the role and balance of Phoenix Force. I don't know if he would truly remove her from existence, if he would consume her. I think he would explode, if he would try to finish the process.

Anyway Dark Phoenix wins destroys Aegis.

Utrigita
Those present was Uatu, Death and Roma and all warned Galactus against the act he was about to pursue, they didn't try and stop him only adviced against it. And I don't think that Galactus was going to absorb the Phoenix Force instead he would simply erase it from existance, on another note Galactus hunger have been stated by Reed to be practically limitless, so I doubt that Phoenix could overload Galactus.

starlock
The fact that rachael/phoenix own her own accord...got into the gizmo...she went in the machine on her own!...galactus did not have a fight with rachael and he put her in a machine to defeat her..... noone ever explains that....Galactus is below Phoenix period

Xplosive
Originally posted by Utrigita
Those present was Uatu, Death and Roma and all warned Galactus against the act he was about to pursue, they didn't try and stop him only adviced against it. And I don't think that Galactus was going to absorb the Phoenix Force instead he would simply erase it from existance, on another note Galactus hunger have been stated by Reed to be practically limitless, so I doubt that Phoenix could overload Galactus.

I was close. smile

It's just that Galactus wouldn't be able to do that with a force, with a fight, but Phoenix gave herself up.
I call that some BS writing, but it's canon. But still we can still only speculate, if he would truly be able to do it.

Lord Feron
Thanks for the heads up I vaguely remember the warning they gave Big G now.


But Idk I think Big G did it he would be consuming more than just planets it would be like universes and galaxies and prob more.

IMO BIg G might be able to do it but he would be full for a pretty damn long time. Also not sure if there will be anything left to eat after he did that.

Also Imagine BIg G with the PF inside him! OH SHIZZLE!

Utrigita
Originally posted by Xplosive
I was close. smile

It's just that Galactus wouldn't be able to do that with a force, with a fight, but Phoenix gave herself up.
I call that some BS writing, but it's canon. But still we can still only speculate, if he would truly be able to do it.

Yes. smile

I have no idea, I'm not familiar with the Phoenix/Rachel Character abilities, and how one Phoenix's feats can be used as arguments for anothers.

Imo it was pretty close to obvious that Galactus was capable of doing it, The stars are going out, the Stars are substained by Phoenix according to Kubik, also the fact that both Roma, Uatu and Death shows up imo speaks for the view that she was going to be erased but that is only what I draw from the scans and I know that you and many draws other conclusions and peace be with it smile

LordKaos
Originally posted by Utrigita
Yes. smile

I have no idea, I'm not familiar with the Phoenix/Rachel Character abilities, and how one Phoenix's feats can be used as arguments for anothers.

Imo it was pretty close to obvious that Galactus was capable of doing it, The stars are going out, the Stars are substained by Phoenix according to Kubik, also the fact that both Roma, Uatu and Death shows up imo speaks for the view that she was going to be erased but that is only what I draw from the scans and I know that you and many draws other conclusions and peace be with it smile

People draw the conclusion that he can't from him not being able to, they admonish him and he still goes on with what he is doing, "yet Phoenix lives"
http://www.comicvine.com/myvine/phoenix_of_the_black_throne/all-images/108-49142/excalibur02521ly3/105-636039/

Utrigita
Originally posted by LordKaos
People draw the conclusion that he can't from him not being able to, they admonish him and he still goes on with what he is doing,

You draw that conclusion from the scan that Galactus failed to destroy Phoenix, I draw the conclusion that based on what Galactus had been told and the later conversation between them, he released her.

Originally posted by LordKaos
"yet Phoenix lives"

"For the Present"

stormultt
galactus on a full stomach in my thoughts and from what ive read n seen wouldve bitchslapped phoenix bac to the white room...

Mr Master
^^yes ... Phoenix's durability is a joke. (proven across several arcs)

Galactus was going to erase the Phoenix Force from existence,
simple and plain.

Whether or not Rachel would've willingly entered his machine makes little difference,
he was going to get her in there one way or another.

That aside,
what that story proves is that Galactus has the hierarchal right,
to erase the PF if he wishes to do so
and nobody can interfere except through advise.
Originally posted by LordKaos

People draw the conclusion that he can't from him not being able to, they admonish him and he still goes on with what he is doing, "yet Phoenix lives"
http://www.comicvine.com/myvine/phoenix_of_the_black_throne/all-images/108-49142/excalibur02521ly3/105-636039/
False!

That scan represents Galactus releasing the PF.

The PF/Rachel was in the process of being nullified,
definitively proven when the stars were fading.
Originally posted by Utrigita

You draw that conclusion from the scan that Galactus failed to destroy Phoenix, I draw the conclusion that based on what Galactus had been told and the later conversation between them, he released her.

"For the Present"
thumb up ... This is the un-altered on panel canon truth.

Xplosive
Originally posted by Utrigita
she was going to be erased but that is only what I draw from the scans and I know that you and many draws other conclusions and peace be with it smile


You are right actually, but it's just awkward the PF could be truly erased.

Originally posted by Mr Master
The PF/Rachel was in the process of being nullified,
definitively proven when the stars were fading.


Definitively proven would be when he would nullify her, although it seems, he would truly be able to do it.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Xplosive

You are right actually,

but it's just awkward the PF could be truly erased.
X, freaggin Eternity/Infinity have been erased & re-created,
why would the PF as a concept
be more surprising when the PF is nothing compared to them.
Originally posted by Xplosive

Definitively proven would be when he would nullify her,
although it seems, he would truly be able to do it.
Precisely.

ANyone who read the story knows that without a doubt,
Galactus was able, and was actually doing it too,
so there's no question he was capable.

Of course, the Phoenix is a famouse character,
they're not going to kill it from Marvel. (atleast not then)

rotiart
Originally posted by starlock
The fact that rachael/phoenix own her own accord...

really she doesn't lease it?
I always figured rachael for a jeep kinda girl rather than a honda.

Xplosive
Originally posted by Mr Master
X, freaggin Eternity/Infinity have been erased & re-created,
why would the PF as a concept
be more surprising when the PF is nothing compared to them.

I didn't say surprising, why not, it's only weird.

Mindset
Originally posted by rotiart
really she doesn't lease it?
I always figured rachael for a jeep kinda girl rather than a honda. laughing out loud

guy222
Hopefully, the bird returns

Survivor19
Let's pray it won't be during Sisterhood ark.
Anyway, Aegis doesn't have enough feats to properly compare. IMO it's too early to bring her and Tenebrous up.

LordKaos
If the scan is of him releasing her then why does he give a speech of how he is supreme unto himself and will not be bound by Reaper, entity or concept? Which is more or less saying "I'm Galactus *****, you don't tell me what to do" "Yet Phoenix lives" how does this statement even make sense if he was releasing her and not going through with what he was doing? "Yet..." would infer that she lived in spite of what he did, so why would any logical person think that after such a defiant speech he then decides to let her go, "Yet" she lives? And furthermore he did not seek to erase the Phoenix Force, merely to remove it from Rachel, he was admonished for trying to seperate the Force from it's chosen form, not erase it from existence, Rachel was it's perferred form of manifestation at the time and not a fully actuallized Phoenix as evidenced by the piece that broke off from Rachels piece to go to Maddie, his speech proves that this all was more along the lines of a pissing contest, not to mention that even though he was upsetting the cosmos he was still told by Roma that he wouldn't be able to do it anyway and the mere attempt was causing the stars to blink out. So Death tells him, if all you want to do was commit suicide then come with me now.

LordKaos
or yet could mean still, and actions speak louder than words, still it was a forced seperation that was killing the stars had he completed (even though Roma seems to think he can't) what he was doing, the Phoenix would not have been erased only seperated from it's link to the universe Rachel.

Mr Master
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++



This is what it is:

The Phoenix Force in its natural state is sustained by the psyche of living beings,
and in turn the PF is the sustenance of the Stars,
making the PF the connection between stellar bodies and Mankind,
WITHOUT the PF's existence,
the Stars would fade because they would have no energy to draw on,
energy which derives from the psyche of living beings, which sustain the Force.


Here's the proof that Phoenix is sustained by the life-force (psyche) of living beings:

(official Handbook of the Marvel Universe - Phoenix Force bio)

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/697578_PF6.jpg

"The Phoenix Force is ... a manifestation of the prime universal force of life,
derived from the psyches of all living beings.
In it's natural state, this life-cycle is enough to sustain the Force"

...............................................................................


On Panel verification:


"I am sustained by life's fiery cycle"

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/697505_PF4.jpg



"Sustenance of the Stars"

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/697315_PF1.jpg

...............................................................................

Mr Master
...............................................................................


Ok, this is what occurred during Excalibur #25

...............................................................................


When Galactus intended to separate the Force from Rachel,
he inadvertently began erasing the Phoenix Force from existence!

This is because the Phoenix Force had bonded fully with Rachel Summers ...

Rachel Summers was the embodiment of the Phoenix Force ...

The Phoenix Force itself told Rachel:

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/697317_PF3.jpg

"You are the ONE true Phoenix"



Again, the Phoenix Force tells Rachel:

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/697316_PF2.jpg

"ALL I have become, You ARE Too"

"My essence has bonded to your spirit"

...............................................................................

Mr Master
...............................................................................


Anyway, back to Galactus ... so Rachel accepts ...

Galactus begins to separate Rachel from the Phoenix Force ...

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/697579_PFG1.jpg

...............................................................................


But in doing so, Galactus begins to kill both Rachel and the Phoenix Force ...

confirmed by the Roma/Uatu and Death!

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/697580_PFG2.jpg

"Galactus ... the Stars are going Out"

*** and this is WHY, according to Roma ***

"That Child (Rachel Summers) is Phoenix,
Living Embodiment of ONE of the Primal Forces,
you can no more divide her spirit from flesh than you can life from death,
there is a natural order to her being (EXISTENCE) as to yours, and all creation"

...............................................................................


As we can see, the Stars would die,
and those life-forms that need Stars would die too.

But Galactus, Uatu and Death survive, this means all the Abstracts survive,
as does anyone with a self-sustaining existence,
this is because the universe wouldn't collapse,
only Stars, and the dependents thereof die,
meh, Death even invites Galactus to her realm, lol.

Mr Master
...............................................................................


Galactus responded with:

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/697581_PFG3.jpg

"I am Supreme unto myself, I will NOT be bound Reaper, by Entity or Concept"

Watcher says:

"Yet Phoenix LIVES" (Uatu thought Galactus was going to surely kill Phoenix)

Galactus responds:

"FOR the PRESENT" --- as in, for Now ... (What does this sound like to you?)

... "the day is yours Starchilde,
and with it, an awareness of your Role (the Eternal Pattern)
in the Scheme of Things"

..........................................................................................


The Eternal Pattern, is Phoenix's ROLE in the Universe,
Galactus was going to END that Pattern
by unwittingly ERASING the Phoenix Force from existence,
Galactus initially only wanted to return the Force to the cosmos,
but as we learned, that was impossible,
because Rachel was Phoenix the embodiment of the Force,
so in trying to separate them,
Galactus was indeed killing them both which were one (Rachel/Phoenix)

just like the Official Marvel Handbook clearly states,
Roma, "WARNED Galactus NOT to SLAY Phoenix"

Had Galactus not freed the Phoenix Force with the click of that button,
the Phoenix would have vanished into non-existence.



=============================================



=============================================



So ... we know ...

Roma was referring to Phoenix being ERASED from existence,


and it's CANON!


(an excerpt from Roma's OFFICIAL Marvel Universe Handbook Bio)

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/697582_PFG4.jpg

- Bibliography - Excalibur #25 -

"Warned Galactus NOT to SLAY Phoenix II"

...............................................................................


I remember a debate where someone thought this scenerio was about the separation,
where only Rachel would die,
and not about the fact that the Phoenix Force is about to get ERASED!
BUT,
WHY would Roma CARE if Galactus slays Rachel Summers? bermm

...............................................................................


In fact

Before Galactus was about to KILL the Phoenix Force,

ROMA appears and says,

"Certain Events are of such Significance,
they must be Witnessed first hand,
THIS is a MOMENT in the Scheme of Things
which must stand or fall on it's own"

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/697583_PFG5.jpg

Yes, this moment of "such significance"
was simply about Galactus separating the Force from Rachel?

Instead of a True Cosmic event of Significance,
like the Phoenix Force being no more?

naw

...............................................................................

Enyalus
^ Gotta love the thoroughness of a Mr. M argument.

Galan007
.... Anyway

Phoenix ftw.

Bentley
I don't think that Aegis and Tenebrous are quite in Galactus level as he had defeated both of them before, and so did Surfer. Dark Phoenix may beat one of them, both would be harder.

Tenebrous
Originally posted by LordKaos
If the scan is of him releasing her then why does he give a speech of how he is supreme unto himself and will not be bound by Reaper, entity or concept? Which is more or less saying "I'm Galactus *****, you don't tell me what to do" "Yet Phoenix lives" how does this statement even make sense if he was releasing her and not going through with what he was doing? "Yet..." would infer that she lived in spite of what he did, so why would any logical person think that after such a defiant speech he then decides to let her go, "Yet" she lives? And furthermore he did not seek to erase the Phoenix Force, merely to remove it from Rachel, he was admonished for trying to seperate the Force from it's chosen form, not erase it from existence, Rachel was it's perferred form of manifestation at the time and not a fully actuallized Phoenix as evidenced by the piece that broke off from Rachels piece to go to Maddie, his speech proves that this all was more along the lines of a pissing contest, not to mention that even though he was upsetting the cosmos he was still told by Roma that he wouldn't be able to do it anyway and the mere attempt was causing the stars to blink out. So Death tells him, if all you want to do was commit suicide then come with me now.

Simple.

1. Galactus' primary interest, above all things, is the continued existence of the Marvel (616) Universe as he knows it. His perpetual hunger is a means to that end. If Galactus dies, the MU dies with him. So, his hunger must always be satisfied.

2. Roma and Uatu tell Galactus what will happen if he continues what he's doing. Uatu asks "Can even you endure such desolation?"

3. Galactus responds that no one will tell him what to do. And that, the only forces that he is answerable to, are he and himself. In other words, no one influences Galactus except himself.

4. G released Phoenix. Watcher comments "yet Phoenix lives" because he, Roma, and Death all saw that Galactus had the intent and indeed was proceeding to do it. To Uatu's surprise "yet Phoenix lives" i.e. despite Galactus' will to erase the PF, she lives. Meaning, Uatu was surprised by Galactus' course of action. It has nothing to do with Galactus lacking the capability of doing it. If I drop you from a mountain top and you survive, "yet you still live" means despite the act it failed to do so (your interpretation).

If I threaten to drop you from the mountain top at any second, but 5 minutes later, you're still there on the mountain top, "yet you still live" despite my threat to do so.

You would logically know this because if Galactus lacked the capability of doing it, Uatu, Death, and Roma (ROMA, the OMNIVERSAL guardian!) would have no need whatsoever to warn him of the consequences!

That's like saying, Death Uatu and Roma came down to warn him only to see that G can't do it? Why go through all the song and dance to warn him BEFORE HAND if he didn't have the capability of doing it?

Think man. Uatu was surprised. Not an observation that she lives despite Galactus intending to kill her. It was an observation that she lives because Galactus changed his mind, much to Uatu's surprise.

guysangel
Dark Phoenix takes it

id369
Galactus only motive was to unbond the Phoenix Force from its host. The stars fading is a consequence of the unbonding processes.

Survivor19
Mr Master, what about PF drawing power from the "reservoir of all future life"?

From PF/G battle after Necrom's demise?

celestialbodies
Originally posted by Mr Master
...............................................................................


Galactus responded with:

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/697581_PFG3.jpg

"I am Supreme unto myself, I will NOT be bound Reaper, by Entity or Concept"

Watcher says:

"Yet Phoenix LIVES" (Uatu thought Galactus was going to surely kill Phoenix)

Galactus responds:

"FOR the PRESENT" --- as in, for Now ... (What does this sound like to you?)

... "the day is yours Starchilde,
and with it, an awareness of your Role (the Eternal Pattern)
in the Scheme of Things"

..........................................................................................


The Eternal Pattern, is Phoenix's ROLE in the Universe,
Galactus was going to END that Pattern
by unwittingly ERASING the Phoenix Force from existence,
Galactus initially only wanted to return the Force to the cosmos,
but as we learned, that was impossible,
because Rachel was Phoenix the embodiment of the Force,
so in trying to separate them,
Galactus was indeed killing them both which were one (Rachel/Phoenix)

just like the Official Marvel Handbook clearly states,
Roma, "WARNED Galactus NOT to SLAY Phoenix"

Had Galactus not freed the Phoenix Force with the click of that button,
the Phoenix would have vanished into non-existence.



=============================================



=============================================



So ... we know ...

Roma was referring to Phoenix being ERASED from existence,


and it's CANON!


(an excerpt from Roma's OFFICIAL Marvel Universe Handbook Bio)

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/697582_PFG4.jpg

- Bibliography - Excalibur #25 -

"Warned Galactus NOT to SLAY Phoenix II"

...............................................................................


I remember a debate where someone thought this scenerio was about the separation,
where only Rachel would die,
and not about the fact that the Phoenix Force is about to get ERASED!
BUT,
WHY would Roma CARE if Galactus slays Rachel Summers? bermm

...............................................................................


In fact

Before Galactus was about to KILL the Phoenix Force,

ROMA appears and says,

"Certain Events are of such Significance,
they must be Witnessed first hand,
THIS is a MOMENT in the Scheme of Things
which must stand or fall on it's own"

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/697583_PFG5.jpg

Yes, this moment of "such significance"
was simply about Galactus separating the Force from Rachel?

Instead of a True Cosmic event of Significance,
like the Phoenix Force being no more?

naw

...............................................................................



Okay I have to ask if no one else will if Roma's Offical handbook bio says "she asked him not to slay Phoenix 2. Then what does that have to do with the Phoenix force and yes I understand that they were fully bonded but at the same time. If your gonna use that then it should have at least said Phoenix Force.

And I know let me repeat that they were fully bonded, but you saying why would Roma care about Rachel Summers is your own opinion I mean the PF sure does why else would she bond with Rachel or protect her body after her battle with Necrom. All I'm saying is that the article you used could also be used to prove that Rachel Summers aka Phoenix 2 would have been slayed not the PF.

celestialbodies
Originally posted by id369
Galactus only motive was to unbond the Phoenix Force from its host. The stars fading is a consequence of the unbonding processes.


That's what I also thopught and I'm not here to say the PF is unbeatable, but a the same time Mr. Master you precieve the scans differently than us and that's your opinion. I know the PF can be hurt but erasing it from existence wouldn't make sense for Galactus to do.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Tenebrous

Simple.

1. Galactus' primary interest, above all things, is the continued existence of the Marvel (616) Universe as he knows it. His perpetual hunger is a means to that end. If Galactus dies, the MU dies with him. So, his hunger must always be satisfied.

2. Roma and Uatu tell Galactus what will happen if he continues what he's doing. Uatu asks "Can even you endure such desolation?"

3. Galactus responds that no one will tell him what to do. And that, the only forces that he is answerable to, are he and himself. In other words, no one influences Galactus except himself.

4. G released Phoenix. Watcher comments "yet Phoenix lives" because he, Roma, and Death all saw that Galactus had the intent and indeed was proceeding to do it. To Uatu's surprise "yet Phoenix lives" i.e. despite Galactus' will to erase the PF, she lives. Meaning, Uatu was surprised by Galactus' course of action. It has nothing to do with Galactus lacking the capability of doing it. If I drop you from a mountain top and you survive, "yet you still live" means despite the act it failed to do so (your interpretation).

If I threaten to drop you from the mountain top at any second, but 5 minutes later, you're still there on the mountain top, "yet you still live" despite my threat to do so.

You would logically know this because if Galactus lacked the capability of doing it, Uatu, Death, and Roma (ROMA, the OMNIVERSAL guardian!) would have no need whatsoever to warn him of the consequences!

That's like saying, Death Uatu and Roma came down to warn him only to see that G can't do it? Why go through all the song and dance to warn him BEFORE HAND if he didn't have the capability of doing it?

Think man. Uatu was surprised. Not an observation that she lives despite Galactus intending to kill her. It was an observation that she lives because Galactus changed his mind, much to Uatu's surprise.
thumb up

I see the on panel proof, bio corroborated evidence,
was easy enough to understand T.

Mr Master
Originally posted by id369

Galactus only motive was to unbond the Phoenix Force from its host.
Yea, uhh, I clearly mentioned that was Galactus' initial intention,
but as Roma also clearly told Galactus:

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/697580_PFG2.jpg

"Galactus ... the Stars are going Out"

*** and this is WHY, according to Roma ***

"That Child (Rachel Summers) is Phoenix,
Living Embodiment of ONE of the Primal Forces,
you can no more divide her spirit from flesh than you can life from death,
there is a natural order to her being (existence) as to yours, and all creation"

----------------------------

Yea, Galactus only wanted to separate the Force from Rachel,
so he can send the Force back to it's natural state,
but this was IMPOSSIBLE!!!

Because Rachel and the Force were one and the same!

I mean, goodness ... the Phoenix Force itself stated it:

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/697316_PF2.jpg

"All I have become, You ARE Too"

"My essence has bonded to your spirit"

Originally posted by Mr Master

The stars fading is a consequence of the unbonding processes.
False.

The Stars were fading because their sustenace (Phoenix Force)
was getting erased.

Aside form the undebatable on panel proof ...

Roma's bio conclusively tells us Galactus was about to kill Phoenix 2,
Phoenix 2 is Rachel Summers,
Rachel Summers was the Phoenix Force.

Mr Master
Originally posted by celestialbodies

Okay I have to ask if no one else will if Roma's Offical handbook bio says "she asked him not to slay Phoenix 2. Then what does that have to do with the Phoenix force and yes I understand that they were fully bonded but at the same time. If your gonna use that then it should have at least said Phoenix Force.
no expression

So,
you acknowledge the fact that the Phoenix Force and Rachel were the same,
yet, you want Roma's bio to elaborate and include the term 'Phoenix Force'
when anyone who knows anything about the Phoenix Force (unbiasely)
knows they were one and the same.
(therefore no need to say PF, when we know the PF is Rachel Summers aka Phoenix 2)
Originally posted by celestialbodies

And I know let me repeat that they were fully bonded,
but you saying why would Roma care about Rachel Summers is your own opinion
Roma has witnessed entire UniverseS being erased from existence,
and she didn't flick an eye,
what freakin significance would Rachel (on her own) have to Roma?

None whatsoever.

And again, you're acknowledging that the Force & Rachel were fully bonded,
yet, you're ignoring the obvious.
Originally posted by celestialbodies

I mean the PF sure does
why else would she bond with Rachel or protect her body after her battle with Necrom.
Inconsequential what the Force thinks/feels about Rachel.

I'm talking about Roma.
Originally posted by celestialbodies

All I'm saying is that the article you used
could also be used to prove that Rachel Summers aka Phoenix 2
would have been slayed not the PF.
Impossible.

Since Rachel was the PF.

I think that's the part (fact) you're acknowledging but yet ignoring simultaneously.
Originally posted by celestialbodies

That's what I also thopught and I'm not here to say the PF is unbeatable,

but a the same time Mr. Master you precieve the scans differently than us and that's your opinion.
Who the heck is "us?" laughing out loud
Originally posted by celestialbodies

I know the PF can be hurt
but erasing it from existence wouldn't make sense for Galactus to do.
Again ...

Galactus did NOT want to kill/erase the Force,
Galactus wanted to just separate the Force from Rachel.

But as Roma stated, that was impossible,
because they were one and the same.

So instead, Galactus was killing them both during the separation,
because he was unintentionally splitting one entity (Rachel Summers/Phoenix Force) apart.

id369

Mr Master

id369
The Stars did not fade, when Jean was shattered by the world level EMP.


Simple fact, Phoenix II is a direct reference to Rachael Summers not the Phoenix Force.

Mr Master
Originally posted by id369

The Stars did not fade, when Jean was shattered by the world level EMP.
That's because the Phoenix Force didn't die,
or was in the process of dying,
only Jean died in that instance.

The PF was separated from Jean in that moment,
and later awoke Jean from her grave to fully merge with her.

They were never one before that btw,
only Rachel could claim that fame.
Originally posted by id369

Simple fact,
Phoenix II is a direct reference to Rachael Summers not the Phoenix Force.
Even though Rachel Summers was the Phoenix Force embodied.

Got it. dur

id369
Originally posted by Mr Master
That's because the Phoenix Force didn't die,
or was in the process of dying,
only Jean died in that instance.

The PF was separated from Jean in that moment,
and later awoke Jean from her grave to fully merge with her.

They were never one before that btw,
only Rachel could claim that fame.

Even though Rachel Summers was the Phoenix Force embodied.

Got it. dur
hehe. Come on now. Jean is the Phoenix Force more so then Rachael. Jeans death, should have affirmed the same consequences.

Mr Master
Originally posted by id369

hehe. Come on now. Jean is the Phoenix Force more so then Rachael. Jeans death, should have affirmed the same consequences.
hehe. Marvel Comics according to id369. no

id369
Originally posted by Mr Master
hehe. Marvel Comics according to id369. no
erm
Rachael was nothing more then its glorified prime Avatar, Jean is a bit more. By the extension of Jeans own words. Now they are one in the same.

In fact, Jean ripped the Phoenix Force strait out Rachael.

Survivor19
I believe Rachel and PF pretty much stopped being one after her death in the bettle with Necrom.

BTW, i so want Xavier to repeat Anti-Phoenix process and become cosmic...

starlock
Why bother with all this nonsense, Dark Phoenix destroys Aegis faster then she would destroy galactus...thats what the feats show and the comics are the proof....Dark Phoenix is Jean/Phoenix and she is clearly abover galactus and aegis....unless someone has some hidden appearences from aegis?

Xplosive
It's not even that important about PF/Rachel. PF was more times separated from Jean, and it was all cool. Then you have PF/Rachel and stars were fading. And isn't Jean major and one and the same with PF?

It could go either way, although with Galactus and Phoenix II, I agree more with Master, since stars were fading and it seems like Galactus was truly on the way to kill the PF. I don't know if it would truly be the case, since it wasn't done to the end, but it seemed Galactus could really do it.
And yes, Jean did rip PF out of Rachel, so what to think. It could go eihter way. Jean is the physical manifestation of the Phoenix Force.

Comics are inconsistent all the time anyway.

starlock
Originally posted by Xplosive
It's not even that important about PF/Rachel. PF was more times separated from Jean, and it was all cool. Then you have PF/Rachel and stars were fading. And isn't Jean major and one and the same with PF?

It could go either way, although with Galactus and Phoenix II, I agree more with Master, since stars were fading and it seems like Galactus was truly on the way to kill the PF. I don't know if it would truly be the case, since it wasn't done to the end, but it seemed Galactus could really do it.

Comics are inconsistent all the time anyway.

Why is this even brought up?..Rachel went into the device on her own....how can this even be an issue? if anything it shows galactus cant beat rachel/phoenix without using tech..oh and add in the fact that galactus would have to have her voluntarily go into a machine....

Aunt may> than wolverine...if he voluntarily goes into a machine designed to seperate him from his skeleton
Maryjane>spiderman....if he voluntarily goes into a machine designed to seperate him from his enhanced genetics

This borders on the ridiculous confused

Xplosive
Originally posted by starlock
Why is this even brought up?..Rachel went into the device on her own....how can this even be an issue? if anything it shows galactus cant beat rachel/phoenix without using tech..oh and add in the fact that galactus would have to have her voluntarily go into a machine...

True.
And she shouldn't resist at all for him to succeed, because she could destroy his tech and defeat him back then.

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