Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

If any of you have even bothered to glance at Star Wars: the Clone Wars new multimedia project, you'd notice a recurring theme:

The villains? They suck.

Not just in personality, overture, or motivation. It's not just limited to the fact that General Grievous went from having a tragic backstory of manipulation and treachery; now he's just a wannabe Jedi who volunteered for the operation that turned him into a cyborg. It's not just limited to the fact that the Confederacy -- the ones where George, in his "high canon" mentioned heroes on both sides (see the opening crawl of RotS) -- is just a hive of evil and incompetence.

No, even the established villains are being pissed all over:

1. Ahsoka Tano, neophyte, was able to dismember a cadre of General Grievous's MagnaGuards. The same MagnaGuards that are masters of all seven lightsaber forms and "more than a match for most Jedi Knights."

2. Anakin Skywalker, only a few months after AotC, manages to duel Count Dooku (the guy who ruined his shit in AotC) on a relatively even footing. Dooku does demonstrate superior Force powers, but the Clone Wars Visual Guide mentions that he retrieves the hologram of Ahsoka in order to "win the upper hand." Anakin leaves Dooku on his ass.

3. Yoda owns a CIS army and humiliates Ventress. Not much of a complaint, since he used his head and the one liner to Ventress when she goes to attack him ("Strong are you in the dark side... but not that strong." was the best moment of awesome ever.

4. Ahsoka Tano manages to fight General Grievous (yes, that General Grievous) on somewhat of an even footing before retreating.

5. The droids are inexcusably retarded. It's not cute, George.

6. Dooku is disarmed, outwitted, and humiliated by a small band of pirates. He makes up for it by physically kicking the shit out of two of them and then Force owning them all in the end.

7. Kit Fisto's obnoxious (but powerful) Padawan manages to duel Grievous on an even footing, prompting Grievous to cheat -- in the middle of their saber lock, Grievous uses another hand to shoot him.

8. Kit Fisto then proceeds to own Grievous, prompting Grievous to summon MagnaGuards... who make no difference whatsoever.

9. Grievous is subsequently verbally humiliated by Dooku.

10. In a recent comic called A Slave Now, A Slave Forever, Dooku is ordered by Palpatine to get rid of a meddlesome member of the Separatist Council. Dooku goes to kill her with Ventress. Anakin shows up, out of nowhere, throws Dooku across the room with telekinesis, and manages to fend both of them off before retreating.

12. The Clone Wars Campaign Guide puts Windu and Yoda both above Dooku.

11. The CIS never wins. What's this about two evenly matched factions with heroes on both sides?

The conclusion: with each subsequent episode, book, or comic on the Clone Wars, Dooku, Grievous, Ventress, and everyone else are made to look weaker and dumber.

It's getting pretty sad.

My thoughts exactly.

Just my opinion, but personally I think we should consider the new Clone Wars series as non-canon or as some strange parallel reality (much like DC's Elseworld comics).

Because from what I've seen, none of it fits or makes sense. Your examples of how the villains are treated is bad enough, but that's not all.

Like since when did Jabba have a son? Since when did Anakin have an apprentice?

The problem is that George isn't beholden to anyone. I feel bad for Leland Chee. He has the shittiest job in the world, trying to make sense out of all of this.

Lucas is rich enough and he'll always get a major cut out of anything that has the Star Wars name. So just retire and let the people who are actually involved, who actually care, do their job.

Dooku is what disappointed me the most. The whole thing with him being captured, and working with Anakin and Obi Wan to escape, was nothing but a comedy.

I do like Ventress' personality. She is pretty bad also, except for having a hard time with Ahsoka.

It's a children's show...

Clone Wars seems to be all about missions not huge battles with like 10 vs 10 battleships!
It should have huge giantic battles
With the villians and heroes being the main targets!
now dooku and grievous are just becoming pushovers

Originally posted by Advent
It's a children's show...

Thank you for the update.

I understand that, but the fact that it's a children's show doesn't mean you discard established canon.

Don't they air it on Adult Swim now, which is for adults?

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Don't they air it on Adult Swim now, which is for adults?

And then there's that.

Advent's been on this I-Hate-Escape rampage for many, many moons. I'm not sure why, but you can expect a hateful response.

I cringe in trepidation.

A few months ago someone here posted a link to the first episode, the one in which Yoda goes around destroying a bunch of the most retarded AI ever conceived in Sci-Fi. After about 4 minutes of it I vowed to never watch an episode of that show and to never glimpse another scene of the movie. Judging from what you've described, I have no regrets.

Yeah.

The animation, action, and title are enough to attract children. There's no reason that carefully established concepts and character developments need to be ruined in order to appeal to kids; they would have come flocking regardless.

Frankly we should have seen this coming since back in '83.

Yeah.

Like I said: George needs to retire. He'll get his cash anyway.

I highly doubt that Lucas will stop playing a significant hand in the Star Wars franchise before his dying day.

-

Just a note in case any other mods pop in here- as this is regarding the Clone Wars media project in its entirety, the thread can stay here despite its use of the Clone Wars tv show, of which there is a forum for.

Well, it is actually part of a series like this. For example the Power Rangers, they always won and looked way smarter, while the bad guys always lost, and looked like idiots.

I don't like Advent, but she is kinda right about it being a kids show. The battle droids being dumbed down is just, horrible. Even my 10 years old brother thinks that is stupid.

Lies.

... Right?

Originally posted by Gideon
The problem is that George isn't beholden to anyone. I feel bad for Leland Chee. He has the shittiest job in the world, trying to make sense out of all of this.

Lucas is rich enough and he'll always get a major cut out of anything that has the Star Wars name. So just retire and let the people who are actually involved, who actually care, do their job.

You hit the nail right on the head there.

Originally posted by Eminence
Lies.

... Right?

no

what wrong with the clone wars campaign putting yoda and mace above dooku?

Originally posted by xxxpoppunker182
what wrong with the clone wars campaign putting yoda and mace above dooku?

Yoda? Sure. Mace? Eh. I understand Mace being a challenge or equal to Dooku; I even get him being able to defeat Dooku in a lightsaber duel due to Vaapad and all. But to be better?

Seems like the heroes have too many advantages, which makes for poor drama.

Yeah, I read that comic. I understand Anakin being powerful and talented, but that was a bit much.

Thanks REXy.

Originally posted by Gideon
Yoda? Sure. Mace? Eh. I understand Mace being a challenge or equal to Dooku; I even get him being able to defeat Dooku in a lightsaber duel due to Vaapad and all. But to be better?

Seems like the heroes have too many advantages, which makes for poor drama.

I don't see how that ruins dooku? Lucas said gods and mace r on palpatines level in sabers and then being number 2 to yoda during the golden age of the Jedi I'd say merits some sort of credabiliy and we r talking about mace being better by one lvl In the campaign.

And honestly I don't care that much I'm just bored on my lunch break and playing with my Itouch

Yoda = Gods.

I never noticed how easy that is to typo.

Yeah, I just noticed that as well. Weird.

It's a kid's show. The bad guys can't look good or even cool. Things like this should be stricken from cannon altogether, or be put on a cannon level lower than "tales".

Ahsoka fighting Grievous gave me a wth expression. Grievous can go up against people like Obi-Wan and yet he has trouble with a padawan. For shame.

The droids are indeed retarded. They can't even reset a navi computer and they always say something stupid enough to get their heads slapped off by Grievous.

Grievous shooting someone in the stomach with a blaster while lightsaber locked is a cowardly move but I guess if it helps you win

Originally posted by Gideon
If any of you have even bothered to glance at Star Wars: the Clone Wars new multimedia project, you'd notice a recurring theme:

The villains? They suck.

Not just in personality, overture, or motivation. It's not just limited to the fact that General Grievous went from having a tragic backstory of manipulation and treachery; now he's just a wannabe Jedi who volunteered for the operation that turned him into a cyborg. It's not just limited to the fact that the Confederacy -- the ones where George, in his "high canon" mentioned heroes on both sides (see the opening crawl of RotS) -- is just a hive of evil and incompetence.

No, even the established villains are being pissed all over:

1. Ahsoka Tano, neophyte, was able to dismember a cadre of General Grievous's MagnaGuards. The same MagnaGuards that are masters of all seven lightsaber forms and "more than a match for most Jedi Knights."

2. Anakin Skywalker, only a few months after AotC, manages to duel Count Dooku (the guy who ruined his shit in AotC) on a relatively even footing. Dooku does demonstrate superior Force powers, but the Clone Wars Visual Guide mentions that he retrieves the hologram of Ahsoka in order to "win the upper hand." Anakin leaves Dooku on his ass.

3. Yoda owns a CIS army and humiliates Ventress. Not much of a complaint, since he used his head and the one liner to Ventress when she goes to attack him ("Strong are you in the dark side... but not that strong." was the best moment of awesome ever.

4. Ahsoka Tano manages to fight General Grievous (yes, that General Grievous) on somewhat of an even footing before retreating.

5. The droids are inexcusably retarded. It's not cute, George.

6. Dooku is disarmed, outwitted, and humiliated by a small band of pirates. He makes up for it by physically kicking the shit out of two of them and then Force owning them all in the end.

7. Kit Fisto's obnoxious (but powerful) Padawan manages to duel Grievous on an even footing, prompting Grievous to cheat -- in the middle of their saber lock, Grievous uses another hand to shoot him.

8. Kit Fisto then proceeds to own Grievous, prompting Grievous to summon MagnaGuards... who make no difference whatsoever.

9. Grievous is subsequently verbally humiliated by Dooku.

10. In a recent comic called A Slave Now, A Slave Forever, Dooku is ordered by Palpatine to get rid of a meddlesome member of the Separatist Council. Dooku goes to kill her with Ventress. Anakin shows up, out of nowhere, throws Dooku across the room with telekinesis, and manages to fend both of them off before retreating.

12. The Clone Wars Campaign Guide puts Windu and Yoda both above Dooku.

11. The CIS never wins. What's this about two evenly matched factions with heroes on both sides?

The conclusion: with each subsequent episode, book, or comic on the Clone Wars, Dooku, Grievous, Ventress, and everyone else are made to look weaker and dumber.

It's getting pretty sad.

I was just browsing trough,(i am bored) when i saw this thread and i couldn't agree more.
This series is the worst thing to be broadcast on TV in the history of Cinema, even worse then Howard the duck. Its completely ruining the spirit of SW.
I really hate how they are making new stories up, just to milk more money from the fans, like Ashoka Tano being Anakins Padawan.
So we don't hear anything of Ashoka in ROTS and all other stuff and then suddenly he has a padawan, which actually goes against established cannon, since she was given to Anakin by the Council for training , instead of him choosing her, like Dooku chose Qui-Gon and Qui-Gon chose Obi-Wan...
Then theirs the fact that the show is completely childish, i cant imagine that someone the age over 12 is enjoying it.

I especially agree about the characters, especially about Griveous. They have turned him into a complete idiot. Did he actually win a single battle in the hole war, apparently in this series no and this is the same Griveous who is supposed to be an incredible strategist, probably the best of his time, where the Republic developed a saying, wherever Griveous goes the Republic forces are defeated. I think there ware like 3 episodes in a row, where Griveous at the end of the show is running away in his fighter, because he lost his capital ships in battle. Then they also turned him into a complete weakling, who has to cheat to defeat a padawan, the old Griveous pwned multiple Masters at the same time and now he cant even defeat a 13 year old padawan.
But the biggest insult to me was, when in the movie where he fights Anakin he YELLS out "You are deceiving yourself" WTF? The saddest thing is, it was actually Cristopher Lee doing the voice acting. This is the same man, who gave us Twice the proud, double the foul, its obvious that this contest cannot be decided by our knowledge of the Force, but by our skill with a lightsaber and countless more in EU and then them make him say something like that, its a disgrace, not to mention that they also turned him into a weakling like Griveous.
I also really hate what they done to the Griveous-Dooku relationship, sure Dooku hated Griveous even before this series , but in these series Griveous also dislikes Dooku, cutting the transmission of, when he(Dooku) was speaking with him and how they both threat each other like crap. What happened to Griveous immensely respecting Dooku, the characters from this series have nothing in common, with themselves from all the other media. Their personalities are completely different.

What i am saying is i really hate this series THE Clone Wars8and i needed to blow some steam of about this topic, because it was really bugging me), the old cartoon was much, much better. I hope the live action series will be done in a much more adult fashion.

you have a great point gideon. Also, Dooku dosn't even sense that jabbas son wasnt in anakins backpack, which is really gay.

Originally posted by Gideon


4. Ahsoka Tano manages to fight General Grievous (yes, that General Grievous) on somewhat of an even footing before retreating.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJmiFBB5PkI&feature=related

This, friendo, is not Ashoka dueling Grievous on anything resembling even footing. She is obviously outmatched.

Originally posted by Gideon
7. Kit Fisto's obnoxious (but powerful) Padawan manages to duel Grievous on an even footing, prompting Grievous to cheat -- in the middle of their saber lock, Grievous uses another hand to shoot him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9ifGJuRBwE&feature=related

Again... not much of a duel/fight. Lasting a few seconds does not = dueling on even footing.

Originally posted by Gideon
8. Kit Fisto then proceeds to own Grievous, prompting Grievous to summon MagnaGuards... who make no difference whatsoever.

Yeah... Kit Fisto is a badass... so?

Originally posted by Gideon

12. The Clone Wars Campaign Guide puts Windu and Yoda both above Dooku.

So ****ing what? Yoda and Mace are ****ing uber... so is Dooku. That's like being perturbed at someone putting Larry Bird above Dr. J, or Wilt above Bill... they're both/all top tier, so... big ****ing deal!!!

I read somewhere that Lucas whas thinking of putting Ahsoka in episode 3, but decided not to.... Im glad he didnt. She did make a possible appearence somewhere in episode 2 there is a small ogruta child with no name. It could have been her. No can say it wasnt because it had no name. =-p But yes, the series sucks, i only wached it to see if it got better............ it didnt.......... But they have Mace owning in one of the last ones...............

Originally posted by Incanus
I read somewhere that Lucas whas thinking of putting Ahsoka in episode 3, but decided not to.... Im glad he didnt. She did make a possible appearence somewhere in episode 2 there is a small ogruta child with no name. It could have been her. No can say it wasnt because it had no name. =-p But yes, the series sucks, i only wached it to see if it got better............ it didnt.......... But they have Mace owning in one of the last ones...............

You did not read that no where. You're just making things up. Her character was not even thought of then. And she never appeared in episode 2.

Read it on a site about star wars and heard it from my friend. May have been lying. He made the thing about it.

How old are you?

Originally posted by Darth Sevius
This, friendo, is not Ashoka dueling Grievous on anything resembling even footing. She is obviously outmatched.

Was this before he was forced to wield two lightsabers against her or after she disarmed him with his own lightsaber (while it was still in his hand)?

No one said that it was absolute even footing. Anyone with a third grade reading level would note the qualifier "somewhat." And no one implied that she was beating him.

The fact remains that a preteen in loin cloth managed to hold her own against the most proficient Jedi killer in the galaxy.

It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to deduce that something's wrong with that particular picture.



Was that before or after Grievous was (again) forced to use two blades where he was magically unable to break the saber lock, despite his mechanized strength, prompting him to shoot Nadar with a pistol?

Or was that before or after Nadar butchered his way through four Magnaguards before confronting Grievous?



If this is KMC's next generation, this place is in for some seriously rough times. It doesn't matter how badass Fisto is supposed to be; Grievous is supposed to be even more badass. The most proficient Jedi killer in the galaxy, second only to Count Dooku for the Confederacy in skill and rank. And while Fisto is a skilled Jedi Master, the point is that any decent Jedi shouldn't be a match for Grievous. It should take the absolute best; an extremely small number.

And yet the number of people who have stood up to Grievous is growing exponentially. Which undermines his credibility as a foe.



Oh.

Oh, well that changes everything. The three uses of "fvck" and three exclamation points indicate that you are a serious badass. Much like Kit Fisto. I will be sure to tread with extreme caution.

Since you're such a badass, I'm sure I would be wasting my time by telling you that the purpose of the Clone Wars is that both sides are on par; roughly equal. Having the clones kick the shit out of the droids on a regular basis, having numerous Jedi and heroes outwitting, outmaneuvering, or overpowering the most powerful of your villains, and implying at every turn that there are multiple characters more powerful than your strongest villain (excluding Sidious, who isn't involved in the fisticuffs) somewhat diminishes the threat posed by the villains as a whole.

Which makes for poor drama.

I've debated with the best and brightest here, which doesn't include you. Don't waste my time with ridiculous points compensated only by lackluster profanity again.

Retired eh?

That's why you're taking care of the next one.

I chuckled when I read this, I must admit. Well done.

Watch your step, though. This guy has an IQ of 148, a cumulative 4.0, secured his Private Pilot Certificate at 16, and is a Systems ****ing Administrator. Seriously, don't **** with him.

Good lord, I don't lol irl about most posts but this is just hilarious.

Off my nuts please.

And dude, I'm not even kidding, that guy's IQ is almost as high as yours! And he's a SYSTEMS ****ING ADMINISTRATOR!!

Don't **** with him.

I wish I had an IQ of 148. And you need to have a pulse to be a system administrator.

I srsly need to put dangerous, menacing stuff in my profile. I'll start with my title.

He will never, ever respond to Gideon's post. And you know why? Because he's in Miami, b*tch.

Oh, I really wanted to respond.

The Fact of the Matter is they have completely messed up what the Clone Wars was supposed to be.

No Big and Grand Battles have we seen.

No CIS Wins so far.

Messed Up Villians that have to cheat to win and cant hold their own against a 13 year old Girl.

CIS Droids are dumber than heck and are not scary at the least...I mean with those droids If I was a clone I feel like I could just walk up to one and flick it in the head and watch it grovel at my feet for mercy.

Grievous is not a Military Genius nor is he a good fighter in this Series. Which in every source other than this one...Hes supposed to be one of the brightest Military minds in the galaxy and has killed many Masters and Knights before. and according to this source he has not killed one Master or Knight yet other than that Mon Calamari which JUST turned to Knight.

The only thing good about this series are the Clones they really make the clones and their sacrifice look good.

But thats it...Bad Dialogue all the way around.

It makes me sad to see Star Wars turn this way and This series has killed the Feel and Spirit of Star Wars. thats Why I try to stay away from it.

completely agreed gideon. I've never been a fan of cartoons or comics, but they are progressively getting worse. Its sad. I always hated Grievous, but i had to give him his due. I get more and more reason not to with every subsequent release.

^ I agree, sometimes i wish that the only canon were the movies. Yeah the kotor games are cool and all but the second one was absolutely ridiculous, the first one was good and i hope that TOR isn't shit.

Read somewhere and saw on Youtube that on a Lucasarts site that KOTOR 3 is being made, but it is being developed APART from The Old Republic so....... if it is announced it is, HOORAY!

"Somewhere" and "YouTube"?

Sounds credible.

Not at all. KOTOR3 isn't being worked on, not with the focus on TOR right now...

As for the Clone Wars cartoon, it's a cartoon. I know that outside of the cartoon, there is other stuff that says other things about the characters. So... I really don't care. It's amusing and it serves its purpose of entertaining me.

Trailer for the new season looks promising.

As for the Nahdar killing, I saw it as Grievous intentionally holding the lock so he could fight dirty. It's what I would've done if I had four arms...

I actually have a lot of hope for The Old Republic. And I will probably play it.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
I actually have a lot of hope for The Old Republic. And I will probably play it.
So do I, I am going to play it as well for the storyline.

So what are you going to play as? Sith? Jedi? Smuggler trooper or bounty hunter.

I might choose between smuggler and bounty hunter, i don't feel like playing a force user seeing they are overpowered.

Originally posted by Wolverine2179
So what are you going to play as? Sith? Jedi? Smuggler trooper or bounty hunter.

I might choose between smuggler and bounty hunter, i don't feel like playing a force user seeing they are overpowered.
Smuggler or Sith I liked the combat for the sith .

I'm really curious what the other classes could possible be.

Maybe mandalorian? If so i sure as hell would pick that.

Originally posted by Gideon


12. The Clone Wars Campaign Guide puts Windu and Yoda both above Dooku.


That's correct: both Yoda and Mace Windu are above Dooku in skill. Do you seriously think that Yoda would lose to Dooku? Or that a guy that BEAT Sidious would lose to Sidious's apprentice?

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
That's correct: both Yoda and Mace Windu are above Dooku in skill. Do you seriously think that Yoda would lose to Dooku? Or that a guy that BEAT Sidious would lose to Sidious's apprentice?
Ohhh. ABC logic for the win! Anyhow he posts later on commiting about this.

I have to agree with this.

Originally posted by ares834
Ohhh. ABC logic for the win! Anyhow he posts later on commiting about this.

I have to agree with this.

You aren't serious...are you saying that Dooku can do something that Sidious can't? Why? How?

B3cuz st0necold sez so.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
You aren't serious...are you saying that Dooku can do something that Sidious can't? Why? How?
Not at all. I simply agree with Gideon that Dooku and Mace are nearly equal and Mace would win solely because of the benefits of Vaapad. Sidious how ever is greater than Mace, yet Mace wins because of Vaapad as well.