Emma Frost vs Exodus

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



Konton
Telepathy only.

Survivor19
Bennet takes it

Tenebrous
Exodus

Enyalus
Exodus wins.

Konton
The two were locked in a stalemate before IIRC. Why does he win?

ExodusCloak
Even if they had access to all their powers it would end up in a stalemate since Emma was able to block the use of his extra powers in the Messiah Complex, as a result she couldn't access her Diamond Form either.

Kris Blaze
I just don't see how assaulting Exodus with like psionic enegy, can defeat him, when he feeds off it.

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
I just don't see how assaulting Exodus with like psionic enegy, can defeat him, when he feeds off it.

Telepathic Battles aren't just about power it's about the way you use that power see Rachel Grey who under Claremonts pen is a bastard child of Jean and the Phoenix with her unlimited reserves of psychic energy.

wannabe
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
I just don't see how assaulting Exodus with like psionic enegy, can defeat him, when he feeds off it.
Well, Nate successfully did it, Charles successfully did it and Emma did so as well.

Stalemate, as seen before during Messiah Complex.

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by wannabe
Well, Nate successfully did it, Charles successfully did it and Emma did so as well.

Stalemate, as seen before during Messiah Complex.

There are things that need to be mentioned though. In the case with Nate who at the time was a very inexperienced telepath Exodus was quoted in the issue as once a telepath of the highest order now relegated to a power leech (I'm paraphrasing).

He absorbed Charles's mind blast and Sersi's psionic energy in bloodties.

It's not so much trying to overload it, it's trying to override him.

Lord Feron
I always thought Exodus was more impressive. but a stalemate is a stalemate so... idk. Still gonna give the edge to Ex

wannabe
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
There are things that need to be mentioned though. In the case with Nate who at the time was a very inexperienced telepath Exodus was quoted in the issue as once a telepath of the highest order now relegated to a power leech (I'm paraphrasing).

He absorbed Charles's mind blast and Sersi's psionic energy in bloodties.

It's not so much trying to overload it, it's trying to override him.
Right you are.
But fact is, current Emma is a match for current Exodus, whether through skill, which in Emma's case is very likely, or through sheer power is ultimately irrelevant for the outcome.

Kris Blaze
I guess Bishop is also an example of this.

He can supposed absorb psionic energy, but Esme was still able to mess up his mind through skill.

id369
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
I guess Bishop is also an example of this.

He can supposed absorb psionic energy, but Esme was still able to mess up his mind through skill. Depends how psionic powers are manipulated?

For example, I have psionic bolts and psionic blast defined manifested raw mental energies.

id369
Originally posted by wannabe
Right you are.
But fact is, current Emma is a match for current Exodus, whether through skill, which in Emma's case is very likely, or through sheer power is ultimately irrelevant for the outcome. Its bin what, over 15 years since Blood Ties? Maybe Emma skill has progressed significantly since then. She is an active little bugger.

Enyalus
Originally posted by wannabe
Right you are.
But fact is, current Emma is a match for current Exodus,
When Exodus battled Xavier in X-Men Legacy Emma could feel the backlash of their power from the institute and it pretty much implied she was inferior power-wise.

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by Enyalus
When Exodus battled Xavier in X-Men Legacy Emma could feel the backlash of their power from the institute and it pretty much implied she was inferior power-wise.

Emma was called the most powerful telepath on the planet in front of Exodus in the X-Men annual and then Exodus was in awe of her telepathic work in Blinded by the light and rated her in his top 5 telepaths. That was all written by Mike Carey as well.

And no it didn't, it was to indicate that Xavier was alive and that was the combined might of psychic energy of Exodus and Xavier.

Emma blocked Exodus, Sinister and Lady M from using their powers halfway across the globe while sitting on a sofa and giving some random 198 guard a nose bleed for trying to jerk off to the visuals from the girls dorms.

And she broke the Global Skrull blockade. In terms of telepathic feats she has him trumped. But I'd still go with the stalemate. Since they did stalemate.

Kris Blaze
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Emma was called the most powerful telepath on the planet in front of Exodus in the X-Men annual and then Exodus was in awe of her telepathic work in Blinded by the light and rated her in his top 5 telepaths. That was all written by Mike Carey as well..

Well, I guess we now know that Exodus is out of his damn mind.

wannabe
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Well, I guess we now know that Exodus is out of his damn mind.
Which is a funny thing to say, you know, because telepaths actually do spend so much time outside of their mind going into those of other people or into the astral. big grin

ExodusCloak
Anyone see this?

I'm putting money on that being Danger disguised as Xavier.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=2819&disp=table

wannabe
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Anyone see this?

I'm putting money on that being Danger disguised as Xavier.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=2819&disp=table
Why do you? What's indicating it? What does it have to do with this thread (no offense meant)?

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by wannabe
Why do you? What's indicating it? What does it have to do with this thread (no offense meant)?

Just that they'll be another Xavier/Exodus face off.

Xavier encountered Danger in the last arc, and it seems as though the Psi-Blockers/Computers are being overrided.

Darth Macabre
Did that say "Slave all functions?" Like the sixth panel.

wannabe
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Just that they'll be another Xavier/Exodus face off.
Yeah, cool, isn't it? big grin

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Xavier encountered Danger in the last arc, and it seems as though the Psi-Blockers/Computers are being overrided.
But it's not done by something like Danger's "cyberpathy". Xavier just implanted commands and suggestions into the Acolytes' minds while they were unprotected and now uses that foothold to manipulate them to his advantage ... read it again thoroughly, you will notice. wink
That's the Xavier i love to see. The one who proves why he's considered to be the best telepath on earth, even by the likes of Exodus.

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by wannabe
Yeah, cool, isn't it? big grin


But it's not done by something like Danger's "cyberpathy". Xavier just implanted commands and suggestions into the Acolytes' minds while they were unprotected and now uses that foothold to manipulate them to his advantage ... read it again thoroughly, you will notice. wink
That's the Xavier i love to see. The one who proves why he's considered to be the best telepath on earth, even by the likes of Exodus.

The suggestions were planted by Xavier yes, but the telekinesis thing suggests that it's Danger. Danger is now working with Xavier after the last issue. He's making them paranoid, they all think he's some how overriding everything via telepathy but it's Danger's cyberpathy.

wannabe
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
The suggestions were planted by Xavier yes, but the telekinesis thing suggests that it's Danger. Danger is now working with Xavier after the last issue. He's making them paranoid, they all think he's some how overriding everything via telepathy but it's Danger's cyberpathy.
He isn't doing any telekinesis. The doors open and the weapons fail to target him, because he makes Unuscione doing that ... you can see her being manipulated. The at hand manipulation of the Acolytes' minds strongly suggests it's indeed Xavier doing all that, unless Danger is a telepath now (i live in Germany and am at least one year behind US-releases, so i'm not up to date).

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by wannabe
He isn't doing any telekinesis. The doors open and the weapons fail to target him, because he makes Unuscione doing that ... you can see her being manipulated. The at hand manipulation of the Acolytes' minds strongly suggests it's indeed Xavier doing all that, unless Danger is a telepath now (i live in Germany and am at least one year behind US-releases, so i'm not up to date).

Wait and see, I'm almost 90% sure that is Danger since she's now helping Xavier. And Danger did display some sort of telepathy in Astonishing X-Men #10

Xavier planeted those dreams in order to create paranoia amongst the Acolytes.
Unusciones psi-blocker some how failed and Danger who has files on all the Acolytes is milking thier paranoia. Also what he says to Vought kind of makes me think it's Danger since Xavier was a complete ass to her at the beginning of Legacy. Danger would have shut off Uniscones psi-blocker and then Xavier is controlling her from the outside to make the others even more paranoid. They think he's a frail old man but in fact he's a killer robot. Exodus is going to check the psi-shields and realize that that's not Xavier.

The real question why does he want Avalon to fall again?

wannabe
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Wait and see, I'm almost 90% sure that is Danger since she's now helping Xavier. And Danger did display some sort of telepathy in Astonishing X-Men #10
Interesting, can't wait to read it. smile

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Xavier planeted those dreams in order to create paranoia amongst the Acolytes.
Unusciones psi-blocker some how failed and Danger who has files on all the Acolytes is milking thier paranoia.
Unusciones psi-blocker didn't "somehow" failed, Xavier made her believe she activated them whereas in truth she didn't. Makes perfect sense and isn't the first time a teep did such a thing.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Also what he says to Vought kind of makes me think it's Danger since Xavier was a complete ass to her at the beginning of Legacy.
But his mind was shattered back then and he points out that now that he remembers he wouldn't do a bad thing to her. So it would also make sense if it's indeed Xavier.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Danger would have shut off Uniscones psi-blocker and then Xavier is controlling her from the outside to make the others even more paranoid. They think he's a frail old man but in fact he's a killer robot. Exodus is going to check the psi-shields and realize that that's not Xavier.
Hmmm, it's very well possible and would indeed be a neat little twist, but until it's proven i choose to enjoy the impression that Charles is back at the top and doing it all by himself. big grin

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
The real question why does he want Avalon to fall again?
Good question!

psi-aura
hmm... i'm at a loss as to how you can confuse a bald old man with a female blonde in a white outfit with an english accent and diamond form capabilities.
wait... nope, still don't understand.

Mshinu
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Emma was called the most powerful telepath on the planet in front of Exodus in the X-Men annual and then Exodus was in awe of her telepathic work in Blinded by the light and rated her in his top 5 telepaths. That was all written by Mike Carey as well.


Exodus is a serial fanatic, adopting one cause or idol after another. He was probably just smitten by Emma for a moment.

Xavier, Cassandra Nova, Shadow King, Nate Grey, Cable at full potential, Stryfe, Exodus, Legion, Kid Omega and of course both Phoenix Greys would all melt her brain in a fight. Sinister, the Stefford Cukoos and Martha Johansson could give her a run for her money. Sage may be able to stalemate her.

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by Mshinu
Exodus is a serial fanatic, adopting one cause or idol after another. He was probably just smitten by Emma for a moment.

Xavier, Cassandra Nova, Shadow King, Nate Grey, Cable at full potential, Stryfe, Exodus, Legion, Kid Omega and of course both Phoenix Greys would all melt her brain in a fight. Sinister, the Stefford Cukoos and Martha Johansson could give her a run for her money. Sage may be able to stalemate her.

I don't know why you put Xavier and Exodus on that list. Charles, Bennet, Emma, Sinister and Jean are all in the same tier.

Plus Nova? Phoenixes, God Cable? You're talking cosmic level here so what's your point Charles would get wooped by them too.

As for current Legion, Emma would have killed him had Illyana not intervened.
http://img145.imageshack.us/i/newmutants9page16.jpg/
Emma faced off against Nate when he did not realize that he had his telepathy she did fine, Nate still had his TK and hated her as much as Dark Beast. I'm pretty sure he'll be playing second fiddle to Emma, Charles and the Cuckoos when he rejoins anyway.

Also Martha definitely not. Cuckoos could give a lot of people a run for their money they took out Kid Omega pretty handily.

Sage is an omniversal being stuck in a wall at the moment. In X-treme she didn't have telepathy and when she did she got the jump on a very green and young Emma around the time Emma just became White Queen. Anyway Sage hurt the f*cke of Jean and Psylocke telepathically.

Mshinu
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
I don't know why you put Xavier and Exodus on that list. Charles, Bennet, Emma, Sinister and Jean are all in the same tier.

Plus Nova? Phoenixes, God Cable? You're talking cosmic level here so what's your point Charles would get wooped by them too.

As for current Legion, Emma would have killed him had Illyana not intervened. Emma faced off against Nate when he did not realize that he had his telepathy she did fine, Nate still had his TK and hated her as much as Dark Beast. I'm pretty sure he'll be playing second fiddle to Emma, Charles and the Cuckoos when he rejoins anyway.

Also Martha definitely not. Cuckoos could give a lot of people a run for their money they took out Kid Omega pretty handily.

Sage is an omniversal being stuck in a wall at the moment. In X-treme she didn't have telepathy and when she did she got the jump on a very green and young Emma around the time Emma just became White Queen. Anyway Sage hurt the f*cke of Jean and Psylocke telepathically.

Cassandra Nova and Cable are not cosmic any more than Nate is.
Xavier is above Emma, not to mention not holding back he should be equal to his evil clone, Cassandra. Exodus has held off Xavier while engaging entire teams of heroes and crushing Genosha with TK at the same time.

Kid Omega and the probably the Cukoos can still take Emma no matter how they fared against each other with or without cerebra. Jean has matched Emma without tapping into the Phoenix earlier. Sinister should easily be able to hang with her.

Martha has separated the Phoenix from Jean and manipulated the entire school at Xaviers with no one noticing, including Emma, Charles and Jean. You are underestimating her.

Not up to date on current Legion, but he has held many times the psychic power of someone like Prof. X.

Not up to date on Sage either but she used to be one tough cookie and sure able to hang with the White Queen for a while at least.

The Shadow King would own her too. And Stryfe certainly.

Point is, putting Emma Frost in the top 5 is too much of a stretch.
Unless you are talking pure skill, in that respect she is up there.

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by Mshinu
Cassandra Nova and Cable are not cosmic any more than Nate is.

Pre-Shaman Nate not so much. Nate Grey was all over the place before Ellis got a hold on him. We'll see how the X-writers handle him when he rejoins.

Nova is above both of them IMO.



Only very slightly. Cassandra is not a clone she's a mummandrai. And he's not equal to her in the slightest she can tap into the full genome he can't how can she be his clone. She had him when he had his powers amplified by ten.



So? Exodus got stalemated by Emma and blocked by Emma. He got stalemated by Sersi and in Siege of Wundagore by Thena. Emma took down 7 super skrull telepaths on 7 Cerebra's. Xavier came up against 1 super skrull telepath and got owned.



Emma's better then the 3 Cuckoos. Unless they've improved since Warsong maybe they have, Sure but both would do the same to Xavier and Exodus too. Mindee messed with Exodus.



Matched? I think not. They both weren't even interested in fighting. Jean was holding her head, Emma was torturing some girl and the static was hurting Jean. A fight broke out Jean shouted telepathically.



Martha? Brain in the jar? I think you're confusing her with the Cuckoos.



Legion was 10 more powerful then Xavier. He's the same now but with more powers. He can only use one power at a time.



She was Sebastian Shaw assistant and got taken out by Karma.



Depends wouldn't say own but he'd have the majority much like he would have the majority against Xavier. SK is an idiot though CIS is why he loses or it could just be Claremonts writing.



Cosmic entities count? Exodus hasn't met Nova, he's met Nate though.

He considers her in his league. And I can't remember the quote but it doesn't matter I think it was a skill table. Either way Exodus considers Emma in his league and it's pretty much cemented now that Ems, Xavier etc.. are all in the same tier thanks to the Legacy and the Utopia crossover.

Mshinu
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Cassandra is not a clone she's a mummandrai. And he's not equal to her in the slightest she can tap into the full genome he can't how can she be his clone. She had him when he had his powers amplified by ten.

She copied his dna so she is pretty much a clone. The TK she uses has been hinted at with Xavier early in his career. The intangibility may be a mummudrai trait tho. When she took Chuck`s body instead of her own she said his brain was the strongest one there is and she was still just as psionically impressive as before, easily mindraping the enttre Shi`ar royal guard



Nope, definately Martha. The de-phoenixing of Jean happened in Here comes tomorrow, before the white crown phoenix "fixed" the universe.
(by making Scott stick with Ms Frost)



Can`t say what goes on in Exodus` head...
Anyway as I said I`ll easily put Emma in the top 5 skilled TP`s. Apart from Xavier and Cassandra if you count her, it is hard to say she is below anyone in that respect. Sinister, Cable, maybe Stryfe should be close, Martha, perhaps Shadow King don`t remember him so much.

On the other hand, many has power enough to more than compensate.

Meh, lets agree to disagree.

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by Mshinu
She copied his dna so she is pretty much a clone. The TK she uses has been hinted at with Xavier early in his career. The intangibility may be a mummudrai trait tho. When she took Chuck`s body instead of her own she said his brain was the strongest one there is and she was still just as psionically impressive as before, easily mindraping the enttre Shi`ar royal guard

She had a healing factor too. She copied Trask the dentists Dna too. She got him when he was on Cerebro.




She got blown up by the Phoenix IRRC. Tricking the entire mansion was the Cuckoos.

Mshinu
Beast who had injected himself with phoenix stuff blew Cassandra, still in Ernst`s body (edit I meant Stuff`s), and Martha up.

When was it revealed the Cuckoos did that?

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by Mshinu
Beast who had injected himself with phoenix stuff blew Cassandra, still in Ernst`s body (edit I meant Stuff`s), and Martha up.

When was it revealed the Cuckoos did that?

I don't have access my issues will re-read HCT. Anyway isn't HCT set very far in the future.

Warsong. The Cuckoos put a block on everyone Charles, Emma and Phoenix to prevent people from asking questions about where they came from. Even made sure Wolverine couldn't remember smells.

Mshinu
HCT is set 150 years into the future, Wolvie, Cassandra and the 3 in 1 all look just the same tho. Cass says Martha has gotten alzheimers. Timeline averted by Jean reaching across time and nudging Scott into Emma`s arms.

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb21710/common/skins/common/blank.gif

Martha wasn`t blown up by the way, just Cass was. The brain bubble bounced across the deck of the ship and suffered just a minor crack. She spoke telepathically in a text bubble (the first time) to Logan just before the end.

As for Martha manipulating the people at the mansion, I was speaking about Cassandra getting out of storage and wandering about in Xorn`s special class as Ernst without anybody noticing. Plus some other incidents I can`t quite remember, used to be a study of in on uncannyxmen.net or somewhere I think.

OneDumbG0
I was under the impression that Exodus wasn't stalemated by Emma so much, as was sorta ambushed/prepped for by Emma... ?

753
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
I

As for current Legion, Emma would have killed him had Illyana not intervened.
http://img145.imageshack.us/i/newmutants9page16.jpg/

?

That's just an alternate future description. It's as far from canon as it can be.

Exodus did naem his top 5 telepaths including Emma, but he ignored some other characters that were above them both. Besides his list wasnt based on raw power, but on the capacity to pull a particular feat: fooling people into believing the fate diaries were still arround IIRC. So I wouldn't take that statement too seriously.

Mshinu
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I was under the impression that Exodus wasn't stalemated by Emma so much, as was sorta ambushed/prepped for by Emma... ?

IIRC Emma held him off and he was unable to use other powers while Dust snuck into his bodily openings and tore him up. He seemed quite sure he was going to win until he started bleeding from his mouth.
Given how efficient a multitasker Exodus have been in the past, this smells of PIS. He blasted a depowered Magneto aside just fine when he fought Xavier mentally. Mags` attack was from the behind even. Not to mention the Genosha fight.

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by 753
?

That's just an alternate future description. It's as far from canon as it can be.

Exodus did naem his top 5 telepaths including Emma, but he ignored some other characters that were above them both. Besides his list wasnt based on raw power, but on the capacity to pull a particular feat: fooling people into believing the fate diaries were still arround IIRC. So I wouldn't take that statement too seriously.

Just like HCT. It was changed after Illyana came back in time to save the X-Men.

Only 5 telepaths he knows off could pull of that feat. He knows people like Nate. But the Nate he met was Pre-Shaman whose powers fluctuated and wasn't that skilled telepathically. Emma was even teaching him stuff when they met.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I was under the impression that Exodus wasn't stalemated by Emma so much, as was sorta ambushed/prepped for by Emma... ?

She walked up to him and engaged him in the astral plane. Because she engaged him telepathically both couldn't deploy their extra powers.

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by Mshinu

As for Martha manipulating the people at the mansion, I was speaking about Cassandra getting out of storage and wandering about in Xorn`s special class as Ernst without anybody noticing. Plus some other incidents I can`t quite remember, used to be a study of in on uncannyxmen.net or somewhere I think.

I don't thin Ernst and Nova are the same people. Whedons run confirmed that.

Konton
Emma sealed off Exodus' other powers, Exodus shut off her diamond, and the two were stalemated in a telepathic lockdown. Dust was just the tiebreaker. That's how I read it at least.

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by Mshinu
IIRC Emma held him off and he was unable to use other powers while Dust snuck into his bodily openings and tore him up. He seemed quite sure he was going to win until he started bleeding from his mouth.
Given how efficient a multitasker Exodus have been in the past, this smells of PIS. He blasted a depowered Magneto aside just fine when he fought Xavier mentally. Mags` attack was from the behind even. Not to mention the Genosha fight.

Emma vs. Exodus

Charles vs. Exodus

Both were written by Carey. In the one scenario Emma and Exodus were fighting.

The Charles vs. Exodus scenario wasn't a fight. Exodus even stated as such twice he was trying to coerce Charles into leading the Acolytes. It was very lopsided. Exodus trapped Charles in a painful Illusion loop and Charles broke out.

Mshinu
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
I don't thin Ernst and Nova are the same people. Whedons run confirmed that.

Really? How does it do so?

In HCT Cassandra tells Martha she can still call her Ernst.
Xorn even commented that Ernst was far more than she seemed. The no-girl/Ernst relationship seems very much intact between Cass and Martha 150 yrs later

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by Mshinu
Really? How does it do so?

In HCT Cassandra tells Martha she can still call her Ernst.

Austen f*cked up. He didn't realize that was what Morrison intended so Nova/Stuff was still at the bottom of the mansion at the end of Planet X. Ernst is just some girl with bad skin. Whedon revisted Stuff/Nova in his run on AXM.

Mshinu
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Austen f*cked up. He didn't realize that was what Morrison intended so Nova/Stuff was still at the bottom of the mansion at the end of Planet X. Ernst is just some girl with bad skin. Whedon revisted Stuff/Nova in his run on AXM.

Actually right after HCT, in the story "Bright new mourning" Beast and Scott search trough the lower levels of the school, wrecked by Xorneto, and can`t find Cass` body.

I hated that story btw, Emma got owned by a common stone throwing punk and later thrown out of a window by a mob while in diamond form. She should be able to %#¤&#¤%¤ them up with little trouble.

Another detail is that in an earlier New x-men issue on a page where the powers of the special class was listed, Ernst was said to have "superpowers", not specific powers like the others. I remember thinking "huh, what superpowers?" Seems to me Martha even got into the brain of the editor, lol. Anyway it seems pretty clear to me that Ernst was Cassandra. May have been rectonned or ignored later but that`s comics for ya.

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by Mshinu
Actually right after HCT, in the story "Bright new mourning" Beast and Scott search trough the lower levels of the school, wrecked by Xorneto, to find Cassandra`s cell empty.

Another detail is that in an earlier New x-men issue on a page where the powers of the special class was listet, Ernst was said to have "superpowers". I remember thinking "huh, what superpowers?" Seems to me Martha even got into the brain of the editor, lol. Anyway it seems pretty clear to me that Ernst was Cassandra. May have been rectonned or ignored later but that`s comics for ya.

Was her body missing? I'm pretty sure it was Austen that messed up.

Either way it's not possible that Ernst is Nova. In Joss's run Stuff/Nova body is still locked up in the basement. As of now the body is still in the basement.

Ernst would have superpowers. She's a mutant.

I guess it was Whedon who messed up then.

Mshinu
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Was her body missing? I'm pretty sure it was Austen that messed up.

Either way it's not possible that Ernst is Nova. In Joss's run Stuff/Nova body is still locked up in the basement. As of now the body is still in the basement.

Ernst would have superpowers. She's a mutant.

IMO there are too many suggestions during whe whole arc for Ernst Not to be Cass. Ernst`s powers was not listed because that would reveal she was in fact Cassandra. If she wasn`t Cass she sure did not show any powers except being a small very old looking girl. I haven`t read the stuff you mention where the body is back in the basement, but it could be a fake, a replacement or the real one could have been put back somehow since the HCT future has been aborted. Or more likely, the whole Cass/Stuff/Ernst/Martha relationship was ignored or ditched.

Anyway, I don`t think we are going to agree here either.

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by Mshinu
IMO there are too many suggestions during whe whole arc for Ernst Not to be Cass. Ernst`s powers was not listed because that would reveal she was in fact Cassandra. If she wasn`t Cass she sure did not show any powers except being a small very old looking girl. I haven`t read the stuff you mention where the body is back in the basement, but it could be a fake, a replacement or the real one could have been put back somehow since the HCT future has been aborted. Or more likely, the whole Cass/Stuff/Ernst/Martha relationship was ignored or ditched.

Anyway, I don`t think we are going to agree here either.

No, no anyone who has read Astonishing X-Men can tell you that Ernst is not Cassandra Nova. It was retconned.

The body in the basement was the real Cassandra Nova and the real Stuff. It was too big a plot point.

Mshinu
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
No, no anyone who has read Astonishing X-Men can tell you that Ernst is not Cassandra Nova. It was retconned.

The body in the basement was the real Cassandra Nova and the real Stuff. It was too big a plot point.

Why can`t the body be a clone? As I said it was not found when Scott and Beast looked for it. It is also perfectly within Cass`abilities to grow one and put it there.

And the fact remains Cassandra Nova wanted Martha to still call her by that name, "Ernst".

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by Mshinu
Why can`t the body be a clone? As I said it was not found when Scott and Beast looked for it. It is also perfectly within Cass`abilities to grow one and put it there.

And the fact remains Cassandra Nova wanted Martha to still call her by that name, "Ernst".

In short when Emma trapped Nova in Stuffs body, Nova transferred a semblance of herself into Emma. That festered and preyed on Emma's survivors guilt causing Emma to have a breakdown and identity crisis.

Evil Emma used Kitty to remove Stuff/Nova from her unpenetrable prison. Emma was then going to transfer Nova's mind into a new body. But then Scott helped Emma through her breakdown and Emma stopped the transfer and stuffed Nova back into Stuffs body. She's still imprisoned.

Mshinu
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
In short when Emma trapped Nova in Stuffs body, Nova transferred a semblance of herself into Emma. That festered and preyed on Emma's survivors guilt causing Emma to have a breakdown and identity crisis.

Evil Emma used Kitty to remove Stuff/Nova from her unpenetrable prison. Emma was then going to transfer Nova's mind into a new body. But then Scott helped Emma through her breakdown and Emma stopped the transfer and stuffed Nova back into Stuffs body. She's still imprisoned.

Still not convinced, time will tell.

Has Martha appeared anywhere since?

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by Mshinu
Still not convinced, time will tell.

Has Martha appeared anywhere since? \

No seriously there's nothing to convince it is how it is.Nothing ambiguos about it. AXM aftermath is important to the X-Franchise especially that run. Do read it.

Yes, they forgot her at the mansion after MC and Beast went to pick her up then she decided to take on Kid Omega she was described as a weak telepath...she eventually alerted the Cuckoos and they dealt with him.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=4180&disp=table

I put these in the Cuckoos respect thread.
http://img706.imageshack.us/i/nationx2page17.jpg/
http://img132.imageshack.us/i/nationx2page18.jpg/

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.