Elektra vs. Steve Rogers

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Juk3n
Bout 1 - Shield on
Sai x 2 on

Bout 2 - straite h2h in a dojo setting.

occultdestroyer
1- Elektra wins via mindrape

2- CA wins

BUSTER1
Cap in both scenarios.

Konton
Elektra in both scenarios.

BUSTER1
Originally posted by Konton
Elektra in both scenarios.

laughing out loud laughing out loud laughing out loud

jinzin
Originally posted by BUSTER1
laughing out loud laughing out loud laughing out loud

What the f**k?

Right because it's not like Elektra's ever taken the advantage to someone on Cap's level. no expression

rotiart
During civil war Electra too on like 2-3 superskrulls at the same time didn't she?

Her archenemy is daredevil who is almost caps peer..
In fight one they get their weapons I'll say the telepathy gives the girl the edge 5.5/10

In match two since it says straight hand to hand I'm assuming no tp. Therefore cap takes it 7/10

tkitna
Elektra loses

Warrior18
Cap. For both.

Daredevil1
Cap wins.

Entity
Cap in 1
Elektra in 2

Wild Shadow
1. 5/5

2. if allowed to use tp elektra wins if not steve for the majority.

Philosophía
Since she is fighting a Marvel character, she obviously at best stalemates him.

occultdestroyer
Bout 1 has no restrictions.
Elektra would mindrape Steve at will.

But Cap does take Elektra in pure H2H, but a close match nonetheless.
Could go either way, honestly.

BUSTER1
Originally posted by jinzin
What the f**k?

Right because it's not like Elektra's ever taken the advantage to someone on Cap's level. no expression

You said it, Cap ftw.

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by BUSTER1
You said it, Cap ftw. laughing out loud

jinzin
Originally posted by BUSTER1
You said it, Cap ftw. Yup, he's gonna do a helluva lot better than Wolverine's faired. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Sin I AM
i wonder if elektra can toss his shield

Daredevil1
Definitely Cap for the win. Cap's stats are better in most if not all areas and is the better fighter IMO.

I definitely don't see Elektra mind raping him at all.

jinzin
Originally posted by jinzin
Yup, he's gonna do a helluva lot better than Wolverine's faired. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Daredevil1
Yeah because ABC logic works so well.

Mindset
Originally posted by rotiart
During civil war Electra too on like 2-3 superskrulls at the same time didn't she?
Wasn't it just 1

Enyalus
Originally posted by Mindset
Wasn't it just 1
Well, during SI she took on two at once, and then one more.

*shrug*

jinzin
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Yeah because ABC logic works so well.

Ooooooorrr you know you could go direct comparisons were Elektra shows more skill, speed, and mindraping on a consistent basis. no expression

iceman24567
Cap ftw

Daredevil1
Originally posted by jinzin
Ooooooorrr you know you could go direct comparisons were Elektra shows more skill, speed, and mindraping on a consistent basis. no expression


Yeah show me her mind raping top A list guys like Daredevil, Shang-Chi, Bullseye etc etc. And you might actually have some what of a case.

Your talking about a guy who is mentally strong and mentally enhanced to break down, who has also broken out of mind control to even mental attacks. You act like she's Charles Xavier.....LOL.


Plus I doubt you can even prove she's faster then Cap. Cap's the more better fighter.

Battlehammer
Originally posted by Daredevil1


. Cap's the more better fighter.
prove it

Starscream M
Originally posted by Battlehammer
prove it this is common knowledge that cap is the best fighter in marvel

Battlehammer
Originally posted by Starscream M
this is common knowledge that cap is the best fighter in marvel

no he not, but why am I not surprized you make such inaccurate claims.

for starters there are at least 5 individuals quite a bit more skilled and then there another 7 or so who are just as skilled.

Starscream M
Originally posted by Battlehammer
no he not, but why am I not surprized you make such inaccurate claims.

for starters there are at least 5 individuals quite a bit more skilled and then there another 7 or so who are just as skilled.

Cap is the best fighter...others may be better at MA than him, but that doesnt mean they can fight better than him

Battlehammer
Originally posted by Starscream M
Cap is the best fighter...others may be better at MA than him, but that doesnt mean they can fight better than him
He not the best fighter at all. Not sure were you get this crap from. For starters people like Ogun manderian mantis ect. are all superior in terms of fighting prowesses.


people like wolverine, IF ect are just as skilled as capt

Wild Shadow
dont forget gamora, Mister x and taskmaster.

Starscream M
Originally posted by Battlehammer
He not the best fighter at all. Not sure were you get this crap from. For starters people like Ogun manderian mantis ect. are all superior in terms of fighting prowesses.


people like wolverine, IF ect are just as skilled as capt how do you judge that ogun, mantis, etc are better at fighting than Cap?

Wild Shadow
mantis is cosmic lvl MA fighter alongside gamora and moondragon they are better more knowledgable by the enemies they fight that cap couldnt survive against due to lack of skills. Ogun has bn alive for 100's of yrs and is able to train a student a life time of knowledge in under a few weeks. he can kill or paralyze with touch as light as a feather he can kill full grown buffaloes with a backslap by MA skill alone.

Daredevil1
Originally posted by Battlehammer
prove it


No proof just my opinion. His enhanced stats which are better then Elektra's and his enhanced mind lets him be the better tactical fighter IMO. Even Daredevil has complimented him in being one of the most capable combatants on Earth. So in my opinion he is the better fighter.

jinzin
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Yeah show me her mind raping top A list guys like Daredevil, Shang-Chi, Bullseye etc etc. And you might actually have some what of a case.

Your talking about a guy who is mentally strong and mentally enhanced to break down, who has also broken out of mind control to even mental attacks. You act like she's Charles Xavier.....LOL.


Plus I doubt you can even prove she's faster then Cap. Cap's the more better fighter.

She did it to Nick Fury, she messed wit Superskrulls, se's able to read Logan's thoughts.... Yet Cap has some sort of better defense... yeah. roll eyes (sarcastic) Okay.
Xavier? Lol, way to stuff words in my mouth. Xavier she ain't, but she DOES have telepathic abilities and HAS used them against more than the usual riff raff...

She's blocked machine gun fire bullet for bullet. no expression

Cap's not a better fighter.

Starscream M
Originally posted by jinzin

She's blocked machine gun fire bullet for bullet. no expression

Cap's not a better fighter. most streetlevlers have impressive bullet feats

also, cap maynot be a better fighter, but cap is no worse either

Survivor19
Mister X is overrated.
Cap held his own agains Wolverine in berserker mode.
Mister X was curbstomped.

Taskmaster is worse fighter then Cap. Common knoledge. Even Tony himself admits it.

Wild Shadow
Originally posted by Survivor19
Mister X is overrated.
Cap held his own agains Wolverine in berserker mode.
Mister X was curbstomped.

Taskmaster is worse fighter then Cap. Common knoledge. Even Tony himself admits it.

caps never held his own with logan in berserker mode he never fought him in berserker mode.

Wild Shadow
Originally posted by Survivor19
Mister X is overrated.
Cap held his own agains Wolverine in berserker mode.
Mister X was curbstomped.

Taskmaster is worse fighter then Cap. Common knoledge. Even Tony himself admits it.

cap lost to taskmaster and got his shield stolen ny him and was being made dun of by tasky, hell call needed help from the power pack to defeat taskmaster. come on man do you read comics?

jinzin
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
cap lost to taskmaster and got his shield stolen ny him and was being made dun of by tasky, hell call needed help from the power pack to defeat taskmaster. come on man do you read comics? Power Pack comics aren't canon anymore.. but yes, Cap's also faired worse against Tasky than she has. Originally posted by Survivor19
Mister X is overrated.
Cap held his own agains Wolverine in berserker mode.
Mister X was curbstomped.

Taskmaster is worse fighter then Cap. Common knoledge. Even Tony himself admits it.

Taskmaster IS a worse fighter than Cap..... Sometimes... Sometimes he's better. His fighting ability is contingent on how much he's been watching and how recently.

Cap never fought berserker Wolverine, he fought a brainwashed Wolverine who had the mindset of a werewolf which is something completely different... and he lost that fight. no expression

Originally posted by Starscream M
most streetlevlers have impressive bullet feats

also, cap maynot be a better fighter, but cap is no worse either

Not as impressive as hers...

And I said she was more skilled...

Who's a better fighter is another debate.

Enyalus
Originally posted by jinzin
Cap never fought berserker Wolverine, he fought a brainwashed Wolverine who had the mindset of a werewolf which is something completely different... and he lost that fight. no expression
That sounds pretty interesting.

Survivor19
Ok, i've re-read that fight.
You are right about that.

manx422
why the hell did not she mind rape bullseye

jinzin
dunno. Her tp is more a skill than a power and it was one she learned in part from the Hand. The same group gave Bullseye months worth of training specifically for her. erm

Battlehammer
Originally posted by Starscream M
how do you judge that ogun, mantis, etc are better at fighting than Cap?
capt was given a blood clot vs wolverine.........

ogun made wolverine look foolish.

mantis fights anddefeats cosmic level beings due to skill alone

BUSTER1
Originally posted by BUSTER1
Cap in both scenarios.

thumb up thumb up thumb up

Juk3n
MA Skill is not always akin to being a better fighter. As for the Cap and Wolverine comparisons in the above posts, Elektra does not have the luxury of a healing factor.

Personally id go with Cap for both, id say he wins 10/10 each fight being very hard. Seh may be just as fast as him in a blitz but i think the fact he can exert his full capacity for a lot longer than her - in theory - she would eventually be overwhelmed by his sheer brute force/speed combined.

Along the lines of the commentary Danny Rand was spewing when he and & Cap were going at it. Although he was somewhat chi-less, he is still more skilled that Cap and most likely very close to Elektras physical attributes. Id say he is in a good position to judge how overwhelming Cap can be. The scene made it quite evident that if he didn't use his Chi, he would have been KTFO!

AlmightyKfish
Originally posted by Starscream M
this is common knowledge that cap is the best fighter in marvel


No.
On Earth alone he's definatly not the top when you have guys like Ogun and Stick around.

And Wolverine, Taskmaster, Iron Fist (?) have all stalemated Cap in the past, other fighters like Shang Chi and Elektra are capable of such.

And then people like Gamora/Mantis can use MA on a level where they can hurt high heralds like Thor.

Cap really isn't the best fighter in Marvel. Top 20, yeah, but not the top.

Juk3n
Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
No.
On Earth alone he's definatly not the top when you have guys like Ogun and Stick around.

And Wolverine, Taskmaster, Iron Fist (?) have all stalemated Cap in the past, other fighters like Shang Chi and Elektra are capable of such.

And then people like Gamora/Mantis can use MA on a level where they can hurt high heralds like Thor.

Cap really isn't the best fighter in Marvel. Top 20, yeah, but not the top.

Isn't it there abilities that makes a few of those guys alot more of a threat? Chi-less Ironfist? Eventual[ly he would have been wrecked by Steve, Tsskmaster? way to inconsistant, on his best day he can match Steve Blow for Blow, but then thats his ability. Wolverine without his Luxury HF /denser bones? Im not convinced. At least we know Caps all man..i mean yeah he's got the syrum, but he's not healing broken bones and regenerating eyeballs in 2 panels. And he's not Chi-slapping a steam train into a million peices either. He gets cut like a man, and he hits like a man, and he heals like a man even though his healing is enhanced, it's still too slow for it to matter in an ongoing encounter - unlike the Reen.

I think when people call him, the best fighter on MA earth, they mean pound for pound. Level ground. Saying wolverines better is like.. i dunno, of course he is he has an insane HF and insane physiology.

AlmightyKfish
Except pound for pound Steve has a huge advantage over most MA's, being that he is enhanced beyond the standard human being.

Chi does make Iron Fist a bigger threat, but without it he's still Cap's better in pure skill. Tasky's ability isn't really an advantage, as it simply allows him to quickly learn skills. Wolverine's HF and powers give him the advantage when fighting Cap, but training wise Logan has always been up there with Steve.

Guys like the Mandarin are normal humans, but would take Steve in h2h. Hell, Mandarin cracked Iron Man's chest plate with one hit, without using the rings, but then again he's on a Ogun/Stick level of MA...

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Except pound for pound Steve has a huge advantage over most MA's, being that he is enhanced beyond the standard human being.


Ermm its mainly skill that makes him dangerous and without the SSS he would still be top tier. saying that his enhancement give him a huge advantage is a big exaggeration.

Wild Shadow
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Ermm its mainly skill that makes him dangerous and without the SSS he would still be top tier. saying that his enhancement give him a huge advantage is a big exaggeration.

without the SSS cap couldnt compete against guys like Daredevil, moonknight, bullseye or punisher. in the comics when he initially lost the SSS he couldnt even land a single punch on moondragon. he did so horrible that moondragon massacred him, insulting and belittling his skills.
roll eyes (sarcastic)

Mindset
Moondragon is pro.

Juk3n
Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Except pound for pound Steve has a huge advantage over most MA's, being that he is enhanced beyond the standard human being.


This isn't true at all, if it were, there would be no Batman vs Cap debate, let alone an Elektra vs Cap debate, going by Batmans and Elektras high-end feats it makes the SSS look laughable, because they just about achieve exactly the type of feats Cap does and all they had to do was work out a lot. more or less ^^

SSS - meh. Daredevil has acrobatic and agility feats that chump the SSS and he is only Peak Human.

It's not that much of an advantage.

Mshinu
Iron Fist said Cap`s technique is basic but his speed and power is incredible. Not suprising concidering his strikes are mainly Boxing which, while highly effective does not include a whole lot of different attacks. No doubt his own persnal style, his skill with the shield and his cunning mind puts him among the very best fighters there are. If he took the time to truly master a more deadly art (no doubt he is already very skilled in some) and successfully add it to his own style he could be the best there is. If.

Daredevil1
Originally posted by jinzin
She did it to Nick Fury, she messed wit Superskrulls, se's able to read Logan's thoughts.... Yet Cap has some sort of better defense... yeah. roll eyes (sarcastic) Okay.
Xavier? Lol, way to stuff words in my mouth. Xavier she ain't, but she DOES have telepathic abilities and HAS used them against more than the usual riff raff...

She's blocked machine gun fire bullet for bullet. no expression

Cap's not a better fighter.


Yeah because able to read Logans thoughts = mind rape. Daredevil has also mind talked with people before. Superskrulls are not A list fighters and neither is Nick. None of those are top and or cream of the crop skillfull fighters, again you fail. Show me her mind raping characters like Daredevil, Shang chi, Iron fist or Cap. I bet you won't be able to.


She's blocked machine gun fire so what. Cap's blocked laser beams and dodged beams under zero gravity. Plus she's athlete level while Cap is at the peak of human potential. Even you argued Cap is superhuman lol. Elektra isn't even at the peak of human potential.

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
without the SSS cap couldnt compete against guys like Daredevil, moonknight, bullseye or punisher. in the comics when he initially lost the SSS he couldnt even land a single punch on moondragon. he did so horrible that moondragon massacred him, insulting and belittling his skills.
roll eyes (sarcastic) You dont know what the hell you're talking about. Cant be arsed to prove you wrong...well not right now. Well ok hes beaten Crossbones without SSS and the only reason why Crossbones didnt kill Bullseyes wa because he wanted Bullseyes to die slowly. There were more cirumstances to Cap losing to Moondragon apart from SSS. You sir fail.

Daredevil1
Originally posted by jinzin


Cap never fought berserker Wolverine, he fought a brainwashed Wolverine who had the mindset of a werewolf which is something completely different... and he lost that fight. no expression




Actually it was noted he was berserker. Book statements>>>>jinzin statements. Plus he didn't have the mind set of a werewolf your making things up. Second he didn't lose to Logan. I already proved you wrong on this many times. Repeating something wrong over and over again does not make it right.

Third since you mentioned Elektra fairs great against Logan. Elektra mentioned the reason why Logan does so bad against her, while she is trying to kill Logan. Logan on the other hand is holding back trying to reach her your own scans showed this.

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Actually it was noted he was berserker. Book statements>>>>jinzin statements. Plus he didn't have the mind set of a werewolf your making things up. Second he didn't lose to Logan.



Apparently in that arc Wolverine described Caps shield a shiny....apparently.

Daredevil1
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
You dont know what the hell you're talking about. Cant be arsed to prove you wrong...well not right now. Well ok hes beaten Crossbones without SSS and the only reason why Crossbones didnt kill Bullseyes wa because he wanted Bullseyes to die slowly. There were more cirumstances to Cap losing to Moondragon apart from SSS. You sir fail.


Yup especially since the SSS what hurting Cap as well during the course of that arch.

Daredevil1
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Apparently in that arc Wolverine described Caps shield a shiny....apparently.

IIRC that was Cap after they turned him into a wolf.

Wild Shadow
i am well aware about the negative effects of the SSS, none of the effects were present when he fought moondragon it was still fairly recent to when he lost the SSS. he wasnt in pain or having seizures or body lock. i know that cap required a suit later on as it progressed and had lost much of his stamina only able to peak for a few minutes before fatigue set in.

also hasnt cap had difficulty with ppl like crossbones, redskull, DD, IF? so why would he be able to defeat them when he has lost the edge of the sss that many have noted in their fights that allows them to compete with them? your allowing your personal feelings for the character to cloud your judgment.

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by Daredevil1
IIRC that was Cap after they turned him into a wolf.

Oh I see. I read what jinzin said again. He assumed that because Cap described his shield as shiny then that must have been how Wolverine thought....yeah I know.

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
i am well aware about the negative effects of the SSS, none of the effects were present when he fought moondragon it was still fairly recent to when he lost the SSS. he wasnt in pain or having seizures or body lock. i know that cap required a suit later on as it progressed and had lost much of his stamina only able to peak for a few minutes before fatigue set in.

I think there were even other factors as well...

Originally posted by Wild Shadow

also hasnt cap had difficulty with ppl like crossbones, redskull, DD, IF? so why would he be able to defeat them when he has lost the edge that many have noted in their fights that allows them to compete with them? your allowing your personal feelings for the character to cloud your judgment.

Dont even understand what you just said.

Daredevil1
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
i am well aware about the negative effects of the SSS, none of the effects were present when he fought moondragon. he wasnt in pain or having seizures or body lock. i know that cap required a suit later on as it progressed and had lost much of his stamina only able to peak for a few minutes before fatigue set in.

also hasnt cap had difficulty with ppl like crossbones, redskull, DD, IF? so why would he be able to defeat them when he has lost the edge that many have noted in their fights that allows them to compete with them? your allowing your personal feelings for the character to cloud your judgment.


None of the effects were present. Heck they mentioned the problem of the SSS in that fight as the reason to the why and we know what problems it was causing. So 1+ 1. Ignoring this is pure fallacy IMO or irrational at best.

Second Cap defeated crossbones without the SSS among other feats. Redskull normally he defeats and Red has to run away.

Daredevil1
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Oh I see. I read what jinzin said again. He assumed that because Cap described his shield as shiny then that must have been how Wolverine thought....yeah I know.

jinzin is lying because I have disproved him on everything in that arch. They couldn't even turn Logan into a wolf because his healing factor rejected there serum. So they used mind control him as they did Moonstone and the others.

Wild Shadow
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I think there were even other factors as well...



Dont even understand what you just said.

1. fine cap was hypnotized into fighting the infinity watch.

2. the SSS is what allows cap to compete at other street lvlers lvl.
ppl like BP, IF have noted he is only able to compete with them because of the sss giving him speed reaction time coupled by his basic fighting ability. DD has mention that cap is tough because he is a supersoldier.

if you remove the serum caps reaction time slows down to the point that ppl like DD would not only be able to avoid him but also land brutal multiple nerve strikes for a ko.

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by Wild Shadow


2. the SSS is what allows cap to compete at other street lvlers lvl.
ppl like BP, IF have noted he is only able to compete with them because of the sss giving him speed reaction time coupled by his basic fighting ability. DD has mention that cap is tough because he is a supersoldier.

if you remove the serum caps reaction time slows down to the point that ppl like DD would not only be able to avoid him but also land brutal multiple nerve strikes for a ko.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well ok hes beaten Crossbones without SSS and the only reason why Crossbones didnt kill Bullseyes was because he wanted Bullseyes to die slowly. There were more cirumstances to Cap losing to Moondragon apart from SSS. You sir fail.

Basically the story showed that if Crossbones and Bullseye fought h2h Crossbones would decimate him.

Actually I think Cap and DD fought when his SSS was giving trouble. This is when DD had the armour suit.

Wild Shadow
DD has fought cap long before cap sss was failing and DD was wearing his armor. they have fought more then one occasion.

jinzin
Originally posted by Juk3n
MA Skill is not always akin to being a better fighter. Yeah I already pointed that out. Thanks.

Originally posted by Juk3n
As for the Cap and Wolverine comparisons in the above posts, Elektra does not have the luxury of a healing factor. And neither does Cap.

Originally posted by Juk3n
Personally id go with Cap for both, id say he wins 10/10 each fight being very hard. That's.... insane....

Originally posted by Juk3n
Seh may be just as fast as him in a blitz but i think the fact he can exert his full capacity for a lot longer than her - in theory - she would eventually be overwhelmed by his sheer brute force/speed combined. As noted, it's taken six hours in a fight just to draw her to a complete disadvantage by Drake, she wasn't tired.

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
DD has fought cap long before cap sss was failing and DD was wearing his armor. they have fought more then one occasion. From what I remember Cap had cramp or something during the fight. erm

jinzin
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Yeah because able to read Logans thoughts = mind rape.

Nice seeing you strawman "for a change" roll eyes (sarcastic)

If that's what you think I was arguing I'm sorry for your comprehensive skills and ability to reason.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Daredevil has also mind talked with people before. With other members of the Chaste? Sure. But I'm not talking about just talking with Wolverine, I'm talking about plucking Wolverine's thoughts out of his head and restating them back to him to his surprise.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Superskrulls are not A list fighters and neither is Nick.
No, but both are enhanced and superhuman, Skrulls having technology copy powers including telepathic one would assume they have tech to resist it as well, and Nick has training in dealing with TP tricks. no expression

So I fail to see what being a top level fighter has to do with anything.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
None of those are top and or cream of the crop skillfull fighters, again you fail. Wolverine isn't a cream of the crop fighter huh?


Y'know it's as if you're just TRYING to throw your credability out the window...

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Show me her mind raping characters like Daredevil, Shang chi, Iron fist or Cap. I bet you won't be able to. WTF? Uh yeah, because she doesn't fight these guys too often.... or... at all...
Nice equivocation btw.


Originally posted by Daredevil1
She's blocked machine gun fire so what. So... it's a better display of speed AND accuracy then anything Cap has...

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Cap's blocked laser beams and dodged beams under zero gravity. Which was impressive but not comparible to the sheer hand/attack speed displayed by Elektra.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Plus she's athlete level while Cap is at the peak of human potential. Even you argued Cap is superhuman lol. Elektra isn't even at the peak of human potential. He IS superhuman... I'm not arguing that Elektra is stronger or more durable than Cap. I said she's faster.

And don't give me this handbook nonsense when her feats consistently outperform "athlete" levels.. it's ridiculous and disengenuous.

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by jinzin


So... it's a better display of speed AND accuracy then anything Cap has...

Which was impressive but not comparible to the sheer hand/attack speed displayed by Elektra.



LOL so bullets > beams now? laughing out loud

jinzin
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Actually it was noted he was berserker. Book statements>>>>jinzin statements. Actually it was ASSUMED by Captain America... who had no idea what was going on with the surrounding population much less with Wolverine... Talk about fail.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Plus he didn't have the mind set of a werewolf your making things up. no expression

Did you read the arc?

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Second he didn't lose to Logan. He was pinned to the ground and unable to defend himself in spite of his resolve to do so... that's a disadvantage.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
I already proved you wrong on this many times. Repeating something wrong over and over again does not make it right.

laughing out loud
Oh the irony.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Third since you mentioned Elektra fairs great against Logan. Elektra mentioned the reason why Logan does so bad against her, while she is trying to kill Logan. Logan on the other hand is holding back trying to reach her your own scans showed this. So what? You think Cap will be more aggressive than Wolverine in a fight?
LMAO... you're always good for a laugh DD1

jinzin
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
LOL so bullets > beams now? laughing out loud

Not at all, they're just different displays of types of speed.

jinzin
Originally posted by Daredevil1
jinzin is lying because I have disproved him on everything in that arch. They couldn't even turn Logan into a wolf because his healing factor rejected there serum. So they used mind control him as they did Moonstone and the others. Lying?

They used mindcontrol and Wolverine had the mindset of a werewolf.. What's there to lie about?

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by jinzin
Actually it was ASSUMED by Captain America... who had no idea what was going on with the surrounding population much less with Wolverine... Talk about fail.

Yeah because theres no way thats what the writer intended us to think. Actually Cap probably knows Wolverine quite well due to the fact they both did missions for the govt etc.



Originally posted by jinzin
Not at all, they're just different displays of types of speed.

Er no lasers > bullets.

jinzin
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yeah because theres no way thats what the writer intended us to think. Actually Cap probably knows Wolverine quite well due to the fact they both did missions for the govt etc. All of which Wolverine went berserk... because he does so so often right?


Oh wait, he had to assume what Wolverine was like berserker because he's never seen it before..seriously.. THINK.






Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Er no lasers > bullets. You DO realise there's a difference between dodging speed and sheer hand speed right? confused

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by jinzin
All of which Wolverine went berserk... because he does so so often right?


Oh wait, he had to assume what Wolverine was like berserker because he's never seen it before..seriously.. THINK.

Hes met Wolverine before and he knows that wasnt normal Wolverine. In fact they've met alot. Again what do you think the writer was trying to imply?



Originally posted by jinzin

You DO realise there's a difference between dodging speed and sheer hand speed right? confused

He blocked lasers with his hand ( he was wearing a gauntlet)...next!

Wild Shadow
most ppl cant separate reaction time reflex and hand eye coordination speed. ppl assume putting a shield in front of an attack is the same as countering and meeting the attack with weapons like swords or claws.

thats why ppl assume cap is fast as logan in hand speed movement and argue cap can keep up with logan in H2H without his shield even if you remove the bone and ckaws. sad

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
most ppl cant separate reaction time reflex and hand eye coordination speed. ppl assume putting a shield of an attack is the same as countering and meeting the attack with weapons like swords or claws.

thats why ppl assume cap is fast as logan in hand speed movement.

Whatever.

jinzin
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Hes met Wolverine before and he knows that wasnt normal Wolverine. In fact they've met alot. Again what do you think the writer was trying to imply? I think the writer was trying to imply that Wolverine was bringing the noise. Whether or not he was ALSO TRYING to imply that Wolverine was actually IN a berserker mode, he failed. Read the arc.





Originally posted by Phantom Zone
He blocked lasers with his hand ( he was wearing a gauntlet)...next! Pretty much was Shadow said.

Marvelknight
Cap 8/10.

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by jinzin
I think the writer was trying to imply that Wolverine was bringing the noise. Whether or not he was ALSO TRYING to imply that Wolverine was actually IN a berserker mode, he failed. Read the arc.

I have and you made some shit up.



Originally posted by jinzin

Pretty much was Shadow said.

Dont care what he said. Hes talking about Wolverine im talking about Steve and Elektra. Elecktra blocked bullet, Steve blocked lasers, hes talking about some other stuff.

Wild Shadow
Originally posted by Phantom Zone






Dont care what he said. Hes talking about Wolverine im talking about Steve and Elektra. Elecktra blocked bullet, Steve blocked lasers, hes talking about some other stuff.

elektra may have blocked bullets but her surface area was smaller then caps and required her to position her sais to block each individual bullet. cap only needs to raise his shield to use the surface area to block his attack of lasers that are flying into the path of his shield already in place.

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
elektra may have blocked bullets but her surface area was smaller then caps and required her to position her sais to block each individual bullet. cap only needs to raise his shield to use the surface area to block his attack of lasers that are flying into the path of his shield already in place.

LOL so you didnt even undertsand the point being raised but jinzin was still backing you.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone



He blocked lasers with his hand ( he was wearing a gauntlet)...next!

jinzin
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I have and you made some shit up. Yeah? Cause it would be a first for you.


No I didn't, but I can't force you into taking into account what you want to ignore.





Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Dont care what he said. Hes talking about Wolverine im talking about Steve and Elektra. Elecktra blocked bullet, Steve blocked lasers, hes talking about some other stuff. What he said was a general statement that doesn't ONLY apply to Wolverine... confused

jinzin
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
LOL so you didnt even undertsand the point being raised but jinzin was still backing you.

laughing out loud

Because sais and gauntlet's large enough to wrap around Cap's arms are of course the same exact in surface area.. no expression

Wild Shadow
i have question can cap block a bullet using a pair of adamantium chop sticks?

oh also shang chi bullet blocking is more impressive then caps shield block.

BUSTER1
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
i have question can cap block a bullet using a pair of adamantium chop sticks?



Can you prove he can't do this?

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by jinzin
Yeah? Cause it would be a first for you.


No I didn't, but I can't force you into taking into account what you want to ignore.





What he said was a general statement that doesn't ONLY apply to Wolverine... confused

Forget it.



Originally posted by jinzin
laughing out loud

Because sais and gauntlet's large enough to wrap around Cap's arms are of course the same exact in surface area.. no expression

laughing out loud lasers >>> bullets. Computerised program > trained human.

AlmightyKfish
That laser feat sounds far more likely that Cap just trajectory blocked it, by seeing where it was aiming and then blocking before it was shot.

Considering lasers move at light speed...

Wild Shadow
Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
That laser feat sounds far more likely that Cap just trajectory blocked it, by seeing where it was aiming and then blocking before it was shot.

Considering lasers move at light speed...

thats not how cap did it. mad cap has ftl reflex reaction burst. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
That laser feat sounds far more likely that Cap just trajectory blocked it, by seeing where it was aiming and then blocking before it was shot.

Considering lasers move at light speed...

Yeah but its still more impressive than bullets. Even if you are using trajectory you have less time to react, also it was a cimputerised system and not human.

Enyalus
Lasers only move at light speed in a vacuum.



Just wanna point that out.

Daredevil1
Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
That laser feat sounds far more likely that Cap just trajectory blocked it, by seeing where it was aiming and then blocking before it was shot.

Considering lasers move at light speed...

Right now apply this to Elektra blocking bullets since bullets move as fast as sound. Heck recently she dodged a bullet only by dodging the aim and not the bullet. Because then she was shown to get shot when a better shooter got her IIRC.

Besides blocking bullets is overrated. I've seen even Zaran block multiple bullets and he's also athlete level like Elektra. Both are not at the pinnacle of human perfection in speed like Cap is. Moot feat moot point.

AlmightyKfish
Yeah, most bullet dodging by MA's is actually trajectory dodging.
There's a few exceptions, but it generally is trajectories.

Daredevil1
Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Yeah, most bullet dodging by MA's is actually trajectory dodging.
There's a few exceptions, but it generally is trajectories.

Thats not how Elektra did it. mad She is faster then sound. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Anyways I'm willing to concede Cap isn't as fast as light if Elektra isn't as fast as sound. Bottom line Cap has the better speed feats and was shown to be faster then Daredevil himself in a race, who is also a great athlete like Elektra.

Since Elektra doesn't have superhuman speed. Elektra doesn't even have the maximum level of human speed like Cap does thanks to the SSS.

BUSTER1
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Thats not how Elektra did it. mad She is faster then sound. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Anyways I'm willing to concede Cap isn't as fast as light if Elektra isn't as fast as sound. Bottom line Cap has the better speed feats and was shown to be faster then Daredevil himself in a race, who is also a great athlete like Elektra.

Since Elektra doesn't have superhuman speed. Elektra doesn't even have the maximum level of human speed like Cap does thanks to the SSS.

thumb up

jinzin
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
laughing out loud lasers >>> bullets. Computerised program > trained human. What the f**k?


Elektra wasn't dodging, so the fact that it was a program vs. human is irrelevant because his aim was irrelevant. What WAS relevant however is that Elektra was able to parry machine gun bullets with the surface area of her sai. Regardless of what you would like to pretend it is a VASTLY more impressive speed feat coupled with accuracy than anything Cap bolsters.

Of course talking to you is worse than a brick wall so I don't expect you to waiver.

jinzin
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Anyways I'm willing to concede Cap isn't as fast as light if Elektra isn't as fast as sound. Bottom line Cap has the better speed feats and was shown to be faster then Daredevil himself in a race, who is also a great athlete like Elektra.

So ABC logic is irrelevant, but only when you don't like it. When you think it supports your agenda, then it's okay.... nice rhetoric.
wink


Cap has some different speed feats than Elektra but none of them better. Elektra's speed is at the top of the street level food chain. And her feats are easily more impressive than Caps.

This isn't a foot race, so Cap whizzing past DD doesn't mean much here.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Since Elektra doesn't have superhuman speed. Elektra doesn't even have the maximum level of human speed like Cap does thanks to the SSS. Just more DD1 ignorance...

I'm always up for one more of your "just cause" arguments.

Wild Shadow
whizzing thats a good one.. smile wine

Juk3n
Originally posted by jinzin

And her feats are easily more impressive than Caps.


Ya know with all the people pointing out how inferior Cap is to other street levelers physical aspects, im starting to wonder whether the army might have given him the Regular-Old-Human Soldier Syrum.. eek!

Mindset
Cap could beat a room full of Elektras

BUSTER1
Originally posted by Mindset
Cap could beat a room full of Elektras

I like the cut of your gib.

Wild Shadow
Originally posted by Mindset
Cap could beat a room full of Elektras

cap needed saving from a small group of hand ninjas because he was downed by them and thy were going to decapitate him. wolverine ala rescue, with nothing more then a piece of metal pipe. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Mindset
Then I guess Hand Ninjas >>> A room full of Elektras

BUSTER1
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
cap needed saving from a small group of hand ninjas because he was downed by them and thy were going to decapitate him. wolverine ala rescue, with nothing more then a piece of metal pipe. roll eyes (sarcastic)

When did this happen?

Wild Shadow
Originally posted by Mindset
Then I guess Hand Ninjas >>> A room full of Elektras

elektra helped wolverine kill a few thousand hand ninjas....

elektra>>>>>>hand>>>>cap





in an old comic check the wolverine respect thread you'll find scans of the fight. or wait till someone post it here. smile

BUSTER1
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
elektra helped wolverine kill a few thousand hand ninjas....

elektra>>>>>>hand>>>>cap





in an old comic check the wolverine respect thread you'll find scans of the fight. or wait till someone post it here. smile

Did the fight take place in World War 2 or modern times?

Mindset
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
elektra helped wolverine kill a few thousand hand ninjas....

elektra>>>>>>hand>>>>cap

Wolverine was there, he negated her uselessness.

Hand Ninjas > Cap >>>>>> A room full of Elektras

BUSTER1
I'll ask again-when did the fight where Cap had to be rescued from a group of hand ninjas by Logan, take place???

Wild Shadow
Originally posted by BUSTER1
I'll ask again-when did the fight where Cap had to be rescued from a group of hand ninjas by Logan, take place???


http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/7774/capsave2me4.jpg


its here in the first page wolverine saves cap rest of the scans near the bottom of the page under the title of:

RANDOM FEATS OF WOLVERINE'S SKILL:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=486007&pagenumber=1

BUSTER1
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/7774/capsave2me4.jpg


its here in the first page wolverine saves cap rest of the scans near the bottom of the page under the title of:

RANDOM FEATS OF WOLVERINE'S SKILL:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=486007&pagenumber=1

thanks thumb up

BUSTER1
As the fight where Cap needs help against the Hand ninjas takes place in 1941, he isn't as experienced or skilled as he was just prior to his death.

Daredevil1
Originally posted by jinzin
Nice seeing you strawman "for a change" roll eyes (sarcastic)

If that's what you think I was arguing I'm sorry for your comprehensive skills and ability to reason.

Well your the one that brought it up in your statement.

Originally posted by jinzin
Ooooooorrr you know you could go direct comparisons were Elektra shows more skill, speed, and mindraping on a consistent basis. no expression



If her mind rape is not what your arguing then don't bring it up. Not that difficult.




And this proves a mind rape how. Again fail.




Well Cap is enhanced. Elektra is not enhanced. She's an athlete...if you want to prove she's superhuman you better find some character statements and more then one calling her superhuman. Yes Wolverine is a cream of the crop for sure. And thats a good example she didn't mind rape him. Which helps my point. In fact her fights with Daredevil, Taskmaster, Shang Chi, Bullseye, Wolverine etc etc she didn't mind rape anyone.






Well if you can't prove it. Thats your fault plus she did fight Daredevil and Shang Chi.




In your opinion. Beams>>>bullets.



Again your opinion. Fact of the matter is Cap is enhanced while Elektra is a great athlete.




Let see some statements that say she has superhuman speed jinzin. Show some actual proof besides your opinion. And if you think her blocking bullets is proof then its laughable at best since A list street characters play in bullets.

Daredevil1
Originally posted by jinzin
Actually it was ASSUMED by Captain America... who had no idea what was going on with the surrounding population much less with Wolverine... Talk about fail.

Cap is right and you are wrong.
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/5554/captainamericav1404ocd1.th.jpg


You say Logan had the mind of a wolf. Prove it. I'll give you the chance just like last time. Show me a scan saying he has a wolfs mind in this arch. I already proved he's berserk.







Indeed. Did you? Because he was mind controlled just like Moonstone was.

http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/8359/capamericav140611roughe.jpg I guess Moonstone also has the mind of a wolf.....LOL




Unable to defend himself. Actually read jinzin.
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/5554/captainamericav1404ocd1.th.jpg

Gotta get shield in position must move(as he was interrupted by Moonstone). He was in position to defend himself. Wolverines not holding down his arms. You'll twist anything.




Face it. Scans prove you wrong no matte what you type.



Again rebuttal with no real relevance. Point is thats the reason Logan did bad against Elektra. Plus notice again she didn't mind rape him in that fight because she can't. And she admitted she was trying to kill Logan as well.

Daredevil1
Originally posted by jinzin
So ABC logic is irrelevant, but only when you don't like it. When you think it supports your agenda, then it's okay.... nice rhetoric.
wink

Doesn't really hurt my case. Even if you remove DD from my equation Cap is still enhanced and has the better speed feats.





Iron Fist compliments on Cap's speed and power. Daredevil says Cap is stronger and faster. Punisher states Cap is stronger faster. Cable said it as well as New Cap. At least with Cap we know were he stands. He is at the peak of human potential and compliments of being faster including whizzing by Daredevil. Who is a great athlete just like Elektra.

Point is. There are dozens of statements for Cap being at the peak of human potential in the story books since you don't like handbooks. Now lets see you show proof that Elektra has superhuman speed from the books. Otherwise your just making things up just like your above old statements.

BUSTER1
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Doesn't really hurt my case. Even if you remove DD from my equation Cap is still enhanced and has the better speed feats.





Iron Fist compliments on Cap's speed and power. Daredevil says Cap is stronger and faster. Punisher states Cap is stronger faster. Cable said it as well as New Cap. At least with Cap we know were he stands. He is at the peak of human potential and compliments of being faster including whizzing by Daredevil. Who is a great athlete just like Elektra.

Point is. There are dozens of statements for Cap being at the peak of human potential in the story books since you don't like handbooks. Now lets see you show proof that Elektra has superhuman speed from the books. Otherwise your just making things up just like your above old statements.

Good post-I haven't seen any evidence to confirm that Elektra is definitely faster than Cap.

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by jinzin
What the f**k?

Elektra wasn't dodging, so the fact that it was a program vs. human is irrelevant because his aim was irrelevant.

Yeah I know a computer designed to give Cap a challenge is probably going to have faster reaction times than a trained human but its not relevant because she wasn't dodging. Ha ha!

Originally posted by jinzin

What WAS relevant however is that Elektra was able to parry machine gun bullets with the surface area of her sai.

Yeah ssssssure. Lets forget that Avengers computer > Trained human + lasers > bullets.


Originally posted by jinzin
Regardless of what you would like to pretend it is a VASTLY more impressive speed feat coupled with accuracy than anything Cap bolsters.


Its more impressive.

http://img474.imageshack.us/img474/8581/avengers17004yb3.jpg

It even looks like hes blocking them at point blank range and having a conversation. He also stated that the beams were firing at a rapid rate and therefore its like a laser machine gun.

Tony Starks robot >> Human
Concussion beams >> Bullets

Oh and this is Cap dodging lasers while falling. Also robots > humans

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/4413/captainamerica26604ff3.jpg

peaches

Warrior18
Steve gives this broad a star spangled punt to the c...errrr....ovaries.

Battlehammer

Enyalus
Steve vs. Logan

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Wolvie_vs_Cap1.jpg http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Wolvie_vs_Cap2.jpg http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Wolvie_vs_Cap3.jpg http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Wolvie_vs_Cap4.jpg http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Wolvie_vs_Cap5.jpg http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Wolvie_vs_Cap6.jpg

shifty

Battlehammer
lol

Wild Shadow
explain what happen their, i know logan is telling cap a story ala flashback. i know logan is holding back in the fight. i also know cap in his early yrs was a crappy fighter that he couldnt beat a group of hand ninjas in the 1941 in mandripoor.

Battlehammer
capt was not a crappy fighter back then. also it was a joke lol

Wild Shadow
well, he wasnt as skilled as he is now and still only knew what he was taught by his military instructors.

Starscream M
Originally posted by Battlehammer

Logan mind was not that of a werewolf? Really then why could he not talk or reason at all? And was acting just like all the werewolfs?

just because he was not talking does not mean he had the mind of a werewolf or that he didn't use skills

Accel
I'm honestly surprised Alfheim didn't cite Cap outrunning three speeding bullets in the "Who's Faster" argument, considering that's probably the best legit speed feat any street-leveler can claim.

Starscream M
Originally posted by Accel
I'm honestly surprised Alfheim didn't cite Cap outrunning three speeding bullets in the "Who's Faster" argument, considering that's probably the best legit speed feat any street-leveler can claim. thats PIS if it did happen...no street leveler should even be anywhere near the speed of a bullet

Accel
I don't take it seriously, but if people are really going to get into a pissing contest comparing who's dodged bullets easier than whom, Cap's got just about any one beat with that.

Daredevil1

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by Accel
I'm honestly surprised Alfheim didn't cite Cap outrunning three speeding bullets in the "Who's Faster" argument, considering that's probably the best legit speed feat any street-leveler can claim.

I hope that wasn't mean't as an insult.

Rage.Of.Olympus
^Don't you think that was a bit too harsh?

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
^Don't you think that was a bit too harsh?

It looked like...actually maybe you're right. I might have taken it the wrong way.

Originally posted by Starscream M
thats PIS if it did happen...no street leveler should even be anywhere near the speed of a bullet

I would think its possible under extreme duress. For me thats one of the reasons why street levlers can hit speedsters.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
It looked like...actually maybe you're right. I might have taken it the wrong way.

You kind of did....

At least you edited it.

thumb up

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
You kind of did....



Fair enough. I respect the fact you're civil enough to give a shit. thumb up

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Fair enough. I respect the fact you're civil enough to give a shit. thumb up

Thank you, I think...

Lol!

BUSTER1
Its good to see people being civil on here.

Konton
Unfortunately for most who have posted, Elektra won't be quite as civil when she edges out cap in both scenarios.

jinzin
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Well your the one that brought it up in your statement.
If her mind rape is not what your arguing then don't bring it up. Not that difficult.
What I said was that she mindrapes on a consistent basis. When I brought up the fact that she was able to read out Logan's thoughts it was to demonstrate her ability to read someone with level 9 psy-blockers, and his own mental defenses which are usually too difficult to outright penetrate, it was to make the point of her mindraping ability more effective, not to say she's mindraped Logan.... At least not in the sense that she gave him illusions or took his body over. Though now that we're discussing this, having your thoughts read and played against you could certainly be considered some form of mindrape too.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
And this proves a mind rape how. Again fail.
Read above. Mind reading is one of the primary reasons people give the edge to Mr. X. And when it comes to A-listers she's plucked thoughts out of Wolverine and Stick's heads. no expression
Again, Cap's mental defensive are better than theirs? I don't think so.

At this point it's worth noting she's dissapeared in broad daylight in front of Wolverine and DD... no expression



Originally posted by Daredevil1
Well Cap is enhanced. Elektra is not enhanced. She's an athlete...if you want to prove she's superhuman you better find some character statements and more then one calling her superhuman.
Well now you're going on your own tangent... but okay....

You see, I don't need to find a statement that calls Elektra enhanced when everything she does is outside the scope of human ability even for a comic human.
She deflected a bullet with her barehand for godsakes... It shouldn't be that hard to figure out on your own.



Originally posted by Daredevil1
Yes Wolverine is a cream of the crop for sure. And thats a good example she didn't mind rape him. Which helps my point. Considering she's read his mind before.. no it doesn't.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
In fact her fights with Daredevil, Taskmaster, Shang Chi, Bullseye, Wolverine etc etc she didn't mind rape anyone. At this point I'm going to assume you think of mindrape under the terms of illusions and mind control. Again, I've never tried to make the claim she would do this to Cap, but reading his mind shouldn't prove too difficult.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Well if you can't prove it. Thats your fault plus she did fight Daredevil and Shang Chi. She played with Shang so I fail to see where you think she would want to use her Tp abilities on him. And she's curbed DD without them. confused
You act like she failed in spite of trying.




Originally posted by Daredevil1
In your opinion. Beams>>>bullets.

No. In point of fact. Steve has never done something on par of blocking bullet after bullet, from an automatic weapon, individually, using a tool with the surface area of a quarter inch.

Beams>Bullets? Sure... and blocking them one a time or dodging them are nice feats, and easily above blocking bullets one at a time or dodging bullets... but sadly Steve's best feats against bullets aren't as impressive as that..



Originally posted by Daredevil1
Again your opinion. Fact of the matter is Cap is enhanced while Elektra is a great athlete. It's not an opinion, there are no feats under Cap belt that show comparible hand speed and accuracy to that feat.




Originally posted by Daredevil1
Let see some statements that say she has superhuman speed jinzin. Show some actual proof besides your opinion. And if you think her blocking bullets is proof then its laughable at best since A list street characters play in bullets. Again, when all over feats are at the top of the street level you really don't need statements... This is just another feats>stats

And yes, most top level streets "play in bullets", but not many of them show the hand speed to block those bullets one after the other coming from machine gun fire... if you have a hard time understanding what seperates that feat from the standard, bounding around a room full of gun fire stuff... then you're beyond all help.

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by jinzin


No. In point of fact. Steve has never done something on par of blocking bullet after bullet, from an automatic weapon, individually, using a tool with the surface area of a quarter inch.


You keep going on about the surface area because its really conveinient for you. Its not just the fact he was blocking beams he was blocking beams from a robot designed by Tony Stark.

Beams>>>> Bullets
Robot designed by Tony Stark >>>> Trained Mercenary

OMIGOD THE SURFACE AREA WASNT AS SMALL!!!!

Hell im pretty sure that Gambit has blocked machine gunfire with his staff and its not that much bigger than a sai. You could even argue that its harder to block with a staff than a sai.

Originally posted by jinzin

Beams>Bullets? Sure... and blocking them one a time or dodging them are nice feats, and easily above blocking bullets one at a time or dodging bullets... but sadly Steve's best feats against bullets aren't as impressive as that..


OK you asked for it Cap outrunning a bullet in a straight line. I think the only other street leveler to do that is Mantis.

Originally posted by jinzin

It's not an opinion, there are no feats under Cap belt that show comparible hand speed and accuracy to that feat.

Heil Jinzin!

jinzin
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Cap is right and you are wrong.
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/5554/captainamericav1404ocd1.th.jpg

BASED. ON. WHAT? no expression


Perhaps you would like to outright prove that Logan was in a berserker rage because from all appearances the only reason Cap came to that conclusion was because Logan was aggressively attacking him....
Cap hadn't even seen Logan in a berserker rage yet...
"he's supposed to be unstoppable in a berserker rage"... Supposed to? Yeah exactly! Because up to that point Cap had never seen Logan in one. like Hammer said, when even Wolverine's teammates can't distinguish the difference between Logan pissed and Logan in a B-rage, how the hell is Cap an authority on the matter? Oh wait he isn't, you just decided he was because that's what suits your ridiculous argument that Wolverine WAS in a B-rage when he was anything but.


Originally posted by Daredevil1
You say Logan had the mind of a wolf. Prove it. I'll give you the chance just like last time. Show me a scan saying he has a wolfs mind in this arch. I already proved he's berserk.

Uhh..... No you didn't... confused

What you proved was that CAP SUPPOSED he was berserk... That doesn't automatically translate to fact does it.

And... he wasn't... anyways...

Wolverine responded to orders from his peers to attack and to stop attacking. He also fails to outright overpower Cap in his "supposed berserker rage" which he would EASILY do in a real one.
http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu345/jinzin2008/CaptainAmericav1404ocd13.jpg?t=1246114130
http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/622/captainamerica5pz3.jpg
http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu345/jinzin2008/CaptainAmericav1404ocd18.jpg?t=1246114306

Wolverine in his state wasn't even smart enough to figure out how to escape brick prison with his Adamantium claws... It's been noted and demonstrated repeatedly that Wolverine's quite intelligent while berserker.
http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu345/jinzin2008/CaptainAmericav1407ocd13.jpg?t=1246114414


And once again responding to Moonstone's commands, able to process orders and follow them.

http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu345/jinzin2008/CaptainAmericav1407ocd14.jpg?t=1246114677


Finally he was simply mindconrolled and out of his right mind... as it was also noted.
http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu345/jinzin2008/CaptainAmericav1407ocd18.jpg?t=1246115149

You want to say it wasn't outright stated he had the mind of a wolf? That's fine and fair, but what you can't argue is... well... anything else that you're arguing here.. He certainly wasn't in a B-rage and you need to note that it was referenced at least once that Logan was suited for the werewolf community.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Indeed. Did you? Because he was mind controlled just like Moonstone was.

http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/8359/capamericav140611roughe.jpg I guess Moonstone also has the mind of a wolf.....LOL

Yep. Just like Moonstone huh?
Because Moonstone had his aggression levels pushed up to an extreme, and constantly walked around barely able to a communicate more than a growl, responded to orders from all of his peers, and became monumentally unintelligent. Yup that's JUST LIKE how Moonstone was.....

Oh wait, no it wasn't....

They were both mind controlled.. that's where the similarities end.





Unable to defend himself. Actually read jinzin.
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/5554/captainamericav1404ocd1.th.jpg

Gotta get shield in position must move(as he was interrupted by Moonstone). He was in position to defend himself. Wolverines not holding down his arms. You'll twist anything.
Cap knowing that he needed to do something doesn't mean he was able to. That's what happens when you get TKO'd you know what's happening but you can't do a damned thing about it. Again, he couldn't even defend himself from Moonstone walking over to him and sticking him with a needle but he was going to defend against Wolverine's next attack?... If your defense is that Moonstone's sheer presence was enough to render Cap completely helpless.... laughing out loud
And I'm twisting huh. The fact is that Wolverine held him at a complete disadvantage even in a horrid mental state.




Originally posted by Daredevil1
Face it. Scans prove you wrong no matte what you type.

Yeah... clearly wrong about that one too.


Originally posted by Daredevil1
Again rebuttal with no real relevance. Point is thats the reason Logan did bad against Elektra. Plus notice again she didn't mind rape him in that fight because she can't. And she admitted she was trying to kill Logan as well.
It's quite relivent. Wolverine actually lost his first fight with Elektra before he knew who she was and before there was any holding back.. so it isn't the only reason she does well against him. Furthermore the insinuation that Logan's CIS is the only reason she does well against him insinuates Cap will fight more aggressively than Cap.. This... IS... ridiculous, and there's nothing else to say about that.

She WAS reading his mind.... and DID vanish right infront of his face in broad daylight later on.

jinzin
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Doesn't really hurt my case. Even if you remove DD from my equation Cap is still enhanced and has the better speed feats. Every ABC comparison between the two is to Elektra's favor. It certainly hurts your case and no he doesn't.





Originally posted by Daredevil1
Iron Fist compliments on Cap's speed and power. Doesn't traslate to being faster than Elektra.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Daredevil says Cap is stronger and faster.
In a foot race? Okay.. doesn't look too much faster in their fights does he. And.... Doesn't traslate to being faster than Elektra.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Punisher states Cap is stronger faster. Cable said it as well as New Cap.
Doesn't traslate to being faster than Elektra.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
At least with Cap we know were he stands. He is at the peak of human potential and compliments of being faster including whizzing by Daredevil. Who is a great athlete just like Elektra.
Again, I'm not talking about a foot race.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Point is. There are dozens of statements for Cap being at the peak of human potential in the story books since you don't like handbooks. Now lets see you show proof that Elektra has superhuman speed from the books. Otherwise your just making things up just like your above old statements. PSSHHYEAH right!

Again, Feats>Stats. You don't need it to be stated that Elektra has superhuman attributes to know that it's been displayed.

Trackz
some of elektra's speedfeats, isn't it possible than sheer speed she couples her speed with her mind techniques? that would make more sense that she could vanish from rooms and block bullets with her hand(which she obviously doesnt have the durability to do)

BUSTER1
Steve ftw.FACT!!!

Konton
There still hasn't been a Steve argument that has changed my mind. All I'm hearing is, "But the handbook says superhuman" blah blah blah.

At least Jinzin has a case.

jinzin
Oh hey! eek! I write a post and Zone's there 2 minutes later with his nose up my ass... what a surprise.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
You keep going on about the surface area because its really conveinient for you. Its not just the fact he was blocking beams he was blocking beams from a robot designed by Tony Stark.


Beams>>>> Bullets
Robot designed by Tony Stark >>>> Trained Mercenary

Alright, well for starters, the beams were described as being of a concussive nature, which doesn't automatically translate to laser speed. Look at Bishop's power set and weapons, as well as Mavericks, those are concussive beams, and they aren't lasers.

Second, Steve blocked them away one at a time.

Third, they weren't coming at him with the consecutive fire of a machine gun.

And finally it's not as if Elektra's not fast enough to react to this type of crap.

http://s593.photobucket.com/albums/tt14/elektrarespectthread/Skill/?action=view&current=Elektra_Skill_Elektra_Root_Of_Ev-18.jpg
http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt14/elektrarespectthread/MightyAvengers16-009.jpg

Once again, whether it was a robot firing or a merc DOESN'T MATTER....
Elektra wasn't avoiding the aim of the merc or anything, and his aim or target leading ability isn't what makes it a speed feat, what makes it a speed feat is how fast bullets travel and how fast they come out of an automatic weapon in succession and Elektras ability to bat them away in spite of those factors...


Originally posted by Phantom Zone
OMIGOD THE SURFACE AREA WASNT AS SMALL!!!!
It's important, as the smaller the objects, the faster her mind has to process what she sees, and the faster she has to be to react to accurately. It speaks volumes about her cognitive ability, which able to have full conversations at a speed where enhanced soldiers can't even process she's entered a room... isn't hard to believe.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Hell im pretty sure that Gambit has blocked machine gunfire with his staff and its not that much bigger than a sai. You could even argue that its harder to block with a staff than a sai.

Scans?

And? Gambit's speed and agility are enhanced attributes of his character. With his skill set this isn't surprising.

I fail to see how you think this discredits Elektra's ability to do this.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
OK you asked for it Cap outrunning a bullet in a straight line. I think the only other street leveler to do that is Mantis.
Which is great for his foot race speed. Again, I'm sure he'd win in a foot race... This isn't a foot race, and that feat is still vastly more impressive than his own when it comes to hand speed and accuracy.

BUSTER1
So uh is there any proof that Cap couldn't pull off the hand sai/bullet speed feat that Elektra performed?

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