Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

If we are to believe the VERY early speculation that Episode 3 will feature a Jedi Spy, working pressumably for the Emperor whilst part of the Jedi order, who do you think it might be?

My bets are on a completely new character created specifically for the film. It would have much more resonance if they used someone seen in the earlier films, but then without using one of the central characters (Mace Windu for example. Someone like Obi Wan would be SANS cool (although highly implausible)) we don't really know any of the jedi that well anyway - except of course for EU material.

People like Plo Koon, Kit Fisto and 'the guy with the freaky neck' are are prime candidates?

What do you all think? Do you even by the idea of a Jedi Spy?

Guy with the freaky neck would be a twist- he's dead.

*lol* Well, then that WOULD be a feat!!!!

It's what comes from not being able to remember how to spell any of those damned jedi's names!!!!

I'll suggest Shaak Ti, instead!

You bet on a completely new character yet you have prime candidates among already seen characters?????????????????????
Now what is your suspicion, a new dude or Shaak Ti?????

Alright. I didn't make it very clear did I?!

Okay, I mention some of those Jedi as a means of suggesting characters that COULD possibly be Jedi spies, in order to create ideas that some of you guys might like to speculate over.

Personally, I can't see George making any of the above characters spies, simply because they haven't been important enough in the first 2 films. Fans on other forums suggest names such as Plo Koon and Ki-Adi-Mundi because they have at least had screen time, and some people look really deeply into slight looks they've given to the camera or words they said against Anakin in the Jedi council in TPM - but I don't buy into that (I don't think Plo Koon's even ever said anything!). Without going for a principle character such as Mace Windu, I would have to put the smart money on a completely new character. For the last two films, concept designers have been pooling their hearts into a "Sith Female" design, of which there are at least 20 odd pages of in the Episode 1 and Episode 2 "Art of" books, none of which have ever come into realization, so it seems like a shame to waste what is a never-seen-before idea in the star wars universe. Personally, I would like to see a strong female dark jedi or 'evil' character.

PS) Aurra Sing, Yaddle and a cloned 'darth maul' are among other names suggested by fans as potential spies.

Poeple have been on the 'Windu is a tratior' thing for quite a while but I see little reason to give it credence.

I have to agree. Although he is perhaps one of the only members of the principle cast who could concievably 'do the dirty,' I just can't see it.

a) I don't think Geogre Lucas has the balls to make a main and likeable character turn out to be a traitor
b) He really is just too much of a likeable, honest character, devoted to the Jedi Order to concievably be a spy

Mace Windu will surely die an epic and honourable death at the end of the Clone Wars, fighting for the Jedi.

Still, it won't stop certain Windu fans from pulling the old "He has a purple lightsaber and therefore he is a rogue devoted to neither alliance" trick out of thier asses!

Or that he is bald and so evil. Seriously. Ask queeq.

he is bald and therefore he is evil?

Then surely by that rationale C3P0 must be evil too! Maybe Artoo is the Jedi spy? We've seen him pull rockets out of the bag, maybe he has a secret adaption that allows him to wield a lightsaber?!! Episode 3 could end with a gallant lightsaber duel between Anakin and Artoo!! Jeez - no wonder Owen Larrs was so hesitant to purchase him in ANH!!!

A good theory that has the odd one or two exceptions. Just from judging TPM it might have worked. Mace was unlikeable there. AOTC ruined it though. I don't believe he is a baddie, but I still like to see him shredded to pieces by evil Anakin.

One or two or three or four...

Oh no, much more than that.

The whole Jedi spy thing seems to have cropped up because people think only a bad guy on the inside could bring down the Council. But after Dooku has already gone bad, and Anakin is about to go bad, just how many treacherous Jedi do we need?

I'm all for a female enemy. It'd be cool to have some downtrodden padawan girl go evil and destroy the Council. And now that we've seen a double-bladed and curved saber, the next concievable dark fashion is two 'sabers, right? I sure hope so...

I have to admit, it doesn't really seem neccesary to create a new 'baddie,' does it? For some reason, George feels as though he has to create a new one for each film - but then, you only ever really had Vader (and the Emperor to some extent) in the OT and they worked just fine. One villain and one protagonist is all you need. Like Ush said, with Palapatine/Sidious, Dooku/Tyranus and THEN Anakin/Vader - is there really any room for another turned Jedi?

It's like the whole lighsaber thing. What's with the new 'gimmick' in every film? Double-bladed, then curved, then two at a time, then purple. George will probably feel pressured into doing something 'new' in Episode 3. Don't be surprised is Yoda pulls out two 'mini' sabers or if the Emperor has a 12-foot saber that can be used like a whip, Balrog-stlye in film 3!

dont think the Emperor has a lightsaber

I think Dooku will suffice excelelntle for the EpIII baddie. We will have a new baddie though in EpIII: Anakin.

ahhh Vader !!!

Curved sabre was good, though... (sniffs).

At least with new sabres it is just cool stylistic points. Not quite like a whole new traitor.

Agreed. Though we will go back to the OT ones, which are now relatively boring.

There were always going to be issues like that with doing the prequel films afterwards...

but isn't that a problem on the whole anyway? The Prequel films have been 'improved' on all kinds of fronts. Stylistically, ILM have made the worlds slick and smooth, bursting with detail and content, all the ships are curved and rounded, rendered generally in a shiny material, characters are computer generated, lighsabers are varied and the fight sequences are fast paced and action packed. What's it going to be like for Kids who watch all the films in chronological order for the first time? That jump from Episode 3 to Episode 4 is going to be a hard one. There's no way I'd be satisfied with the Obi-Wan/Vader duel at the end of ANH having watched Darth Maul in Episode 1 and whatever George has planned for us in Episode 3.

I LIKE that duel! It was very technical! Ok, probably better for me as I know a little about swordfighting, but even so...

The ships thing is fine, though- beautiful ships in a crafsman's era turning into ugly, hardcore warcraft from a time of galactic conflict.

Good point. It IS possible to see the progression of machinery/vehicles/architecture from before to after the galactic civil war. I suppose it demonstrates how devatstating the effect of the Empire was on the Star Wars universe - but I still think young kids will have difficulty accepting the enormous jump from the PT to the OT. Things like the CG-Yoda to the puppet Yoda in TESB are quite blatant, for example.

I suppose it all depends on how George handles Episode 3. Bearing in mind that this will be after the Clone Wars, one of the biggest full-scale wars in Star Wars history, if he decideds to start making the design of the film significantly more in line with the OT, as a result of a brutal 3 year war, it would make the transaction into Episode 4 a little easier to swallow, not to mention make more sense.

Designwise I see no problems. I think designwise the OT and PT will fit seemlessly in the end. As for effects... well, I don't know. Yoda might be a problem. Some of the look of the PT has already been inserted in the OT in the SE's....

SE`s???????????

Special Editions.

That's true. I would say Bespin, for one, certainly has a feel for the PT in the Special Editions. The activity outside the windows etc. And Coruscant makes a brief cameo at the end of ROTJ-SE.

Bare in mind, also, that Lucas will most probably make Special-Special editions of the original films after Episode 3 has been released, for DVD - so they will probably be adjusted to fit in with the PT too.

Who thinks, for example, that should Alderaan end up being one of the new planets visited in Epsode 3, it will end up being inserted into Ep4, just before it gets blown up?

I think we will se Alderaan in ep III, but I dont think he will alter ANH any further

I agree about Alderaan.

And I don't know about Lucas changing the OT... I just don't know. I do think Mos Eisly looks very in synch with Mos Espa, so that looks fine to me. Somehow I dislike Lucas continually tinkering with his films, like he can't make up his mind.

Films are never finished, only abandoned...

Anyway, no-one MAKES you watch the new ones.

Willow SE, only willow aint a small people any more. It is Arnold S

To be honest, with Star Wars I welcome anything new. When the Special Editions came out, I loved them, and should Lucas release new tinkered-with versions every 5 years I GUARENTEE I'd hand over the cash for the latest version every single time. However, having had time to think about the films - in truth, I probably wish the Special Editions hadn't come out. I like the way sound and picture quality is improved, but to insert new 'improved' scenes such as Greedo shooting first or Jabba the Hut in Episode 4 is just sort of unnecesary - especially when most of the new stuff stands out a mile because the quality and 'look' of the new special effects are tons better than the originals. I'm particualry bitter about the 'improved' ROTJ dance sequence at Jabba's palace!

I don't on the whole, like it when director's re-release a film with 're-inserted' material as a blatant cash-in. E.T for example - what was that all about with the walkie-talkies?!?! Having said that, I liked the way Peter Jackson released the extended edition of FOTR. In fact, the 3 and half hour cut is now my preferred version of the movie. I think what bothers me most about the Star Wars SE's, is that George claims that these are now the 'true vision' of star wars and all the other versions before it are now obsolete. I mean, can any of us ever truely remove the Ewok "Nub Yub" song from the original ROTJ from our memories? I know it holds a special place in my heart!! It kind of annoys me that George will never release the OT on DVD in their original form.

Still. I completely look forward to the 'deleted scenes' included with the OT DVDS. Fingers crossed for the Biggs Darklighter scenes on Tatooine, and the 'desert storm' finally presented for us all to enjoy! Roll on 2007!

True... but still. It seems like the original work is bad once modified.

And about films only being abandoned... One might expect that that would work for a book too then. But who can imagine SE of Shakespeare's work or of The Great Gatsby, Catcher in Rye etc etc...?
As for the OT, I can see that it neede some changes to fit in the original vision. But to modify it again is a bit odd (I'll forgive him if he fixes the Rancor scene though ).
And also, when you manage not to make it the way you had envisioned it, you make sure you do a better job next time. So far I think GL is failing at that with the PT's. The effects are better, but the films are not, so far, IMHO OC.

An SE of the works you say would not be much good as the authors are dead.

As it is, most of Shakespeare's plays as we have them are probably on their third or fourth editions. There was never any sacredness attached to the original versions in those times.

If GL says the SE's are closer to the original vision then that is absolutely his right to say so; I tire of the argument (advanced clumsily in South Park) that the original versions somehow 'belong to all the fans' as well (trotting out the tiresome argument about them being the ones who put him where he is) and so he should not tinker with them.

He can and if he wants to he should. And if then viewers in return want to say that the 'true vision' is actually not as good as the incomplete one, then that is THEIR right as well, of course...

And let's be clear here, it is the VISUAL side of the films that GL said were incomplete. This time around they are not, so he HAS improved in the terms he was talking. Plot is something entirely different.

Fair point, Ush.

Who is to say that George doesn't truely feel as though his films are incomplete and wants to take advantage of the advances in technology and make them as close to his original version as possible?

Who can say except George himself? The fans obviously reacted exceptionally well to the original films, so there was no real need to re-release the films as special editions EXCEPT to improve on what George feels are the flaws of the films (unless of course, it really WAS just a way of cashing in on an already popular franchise.) Personally I think that that SEs were made as a kind of trial run for the PT films, to see what ILM were capable of.

A lot of directors tend to dislike the idea of 'improving' on a film (all except those mocked recently in South Park - such as Speilberg, Lucas and Ford Coppola). I respect their decision to not want to tamper with a film that was made years ago - Terry Gillingham for example, is quite vocal about his bitterness towards 'directors cuts' of films, because he claims he makes HIS directors's cut first time round, he makes the film he wants to make. I respect that.

In fact, sometimes (although of course, you can never say for sure what is exaggerated or fabricated over the internet) I can't believe some of the things Lucas comes out with. I heard recently that he says if he could go back in time he would write and direct TESB and ROTJ himself! That sounds like ignorance to me. We've all heard the fans moan that George should not be allowed to write or direct ANY star wars film seeing what he has done with Episode's 1 and 2, right? (not neccesarily my opinion BTW) Well, regardless, I feel some of the best Star Wars stuff has been the stuff he has produced, and NOT directed. He should at least be grateful to the directors that made great films from his vision, and created arguably the BEST star wars movie (ESB). Apparantly George is still really bitter at Irvin Kershnaw for going over-budget with that film!! Personally, I'd give him a healthy slap on the back for making the most critically-acclaimed SW movie to date, and adding to my millions! (Saying that, George does seemed to have lightened up a lot in recent years. He seems to be kicking back and just enjoying himself in the AOTC DVD documentaries. He seems like a decent guy)

Anyway. I would think that by this time, George would be pretty fed up with Star Wars - each film takes up 3 years of his life, and he's still got the DVDs to work on! I imagine he'll be glad to spend time indulging in other projects. Personally I can't wait to see what sort of movies he directs after Episode 3.

We've gone a bit off topic. But I'd just like to drop in this little anecdote. Curren;ty I am directing a talk show for Dutch tv with well-known Dutch people. And a while ago we had a novelist. She was talking about her latest book which was about to be published and then I asked her if she ever felt like going back to previous novels to change stuff. And she said, no. When she hands it in, that is it. It wouldn't work otherwise. She felt it's like a baby and she hands in the final manuscript only when she's really done with it. So taht's why I was wondering about Lucas.

I mean, I'll be honest, with documentaries or programmes I made in the past I sometimes would like to modify stuff, but I can't. So in a way that's a tad frustrating, on the other hand, that's what I did, that's what I made. And I still believe the original release of the OT stands the test of time.... Well, perhaps ANH as an exception. I really liked that SE.

so there will be no guests then

Can you name some progrtams and documentaries you made queeq, maybe I have seen some off them, since we allready are off topic

I doubt it. I haven't made any world wide spread docs yet. A few that have been sold to Ireland, Israel, Austria and some other broadcasters here an there. Nothing major. besides the last doc I actually MADE was about three years ago. Have been developing like crazy, but my boss doesn't seem too adequate in selling them.

tell him about a doc regarding the doped dutch skaters, at least that have domestic potential :d

Well, ANH was really the 'true' special edition, wasn't it? Then he just did the other two because it seemed he was onto a good thing.

I rather like what they did with the snowspeeders in ESB- subtle and effective for improving the look, without making it look suddenly ultra-modern. Not that I had ever noticed the transparency...

Personally I would be very happy to go back and alter previous work of mine. If people want to sanctify their earlier stuff, then fine, but I see no need to. Tolkien changed The Hobbit after LOTR was released and I hear no complaints.

But anyway... I say no to more spies!

How could you have noticed the transparancy... on VHS??!! That is so crappy, it almost makes the Rancor scene look good. But it needed the work, but that's hardly changing, just polishing up like they do for the DVD's these days. Films like BEn-Hur or Citizen Kane never looked so good as they do now. the additions in ESB just showed me how perfect that film was. I certainly didn't need additions and stuff, it looks nice though.

Yeah, no more spies.

Maybe the Rancor is the Jedi spy? Why would anyone expect a 3 inch plastercine model blown up and cut and pasted into the film?

Yoda: Suspect, Master Mundi's new padawan I do. Dark and disturbing this 20 foot monster, hell bent on destruction is.

Windu: Relax. The power of the dark side has clouded your ability to use the force.

Yoda: Trust ANYTHING that blatantly superimposed, you cannot.

Windu. Says you? You just lucky I'm good at getting my eye lines correct.

You just solved the puzzle!!! You're briliant!

well I have another word than brilliant

Not here! Not here!

Yeah, fair enough!

Just trying to steer the thread somewhere at least NEAR to the ballpark where the topic started of!!!

Doesn't seem like anyone even thinks there IS a Jedi Spy in Episode 3

actually I havent given a jedi spy or not too much thought

Good. Closing time?

Closing time? I'm hurt!!

Nah, seriously. Unless you have any strong views on why one of the characters from episode 1 and 2 might be decieving (i.e. the 'classic' mace windu is evil debate) there's not a lot to discuss.

I would say that 'spy' (assuming there deffinately is one in the film) will almost certainly be a completely new character. Who or what that might be is anyone's guess. Only thing for sure is that he/she will be likes of which have never been seen before.

Why would it need a spy at all? We know what's gonna happen. Too many baddies is problematic. It will all focus on Anakin. So the basic question is what Anakin's status is at the beginning of EpIII (which I think is that he got kicked out of the Jedi Order) and then that something happens that will make OB1 go and get him.

Agreed.

I think Episode 3 certainly DOESN'T need a 'spy' character, but if you merit early rumours (fair enough if you don't) then indications are that there will be a spy working under the Jedi Order. Of course, only time will tell if such rumours are true. At this early stage in the game, it's possible for ideas to come and then get scrapped if they don't work out - I don't even think a close-to-final draft of the script is finished yet. Although I would say that SHOULD such a 'spy' character end up in the movie, he/she will have similar screen time to Zam Wessel in Episode 2. For those of us who DIDN'T know the AOTC plot before we saw the film, Zam Wessel was advertised as being quite a serious 'new' character. Zam was promoted as being like a 'bad guy' (i.e. a bounty hunter) and anyone speculating about the character pre-AOTC would probably argue that there was no need for another bad guy, what with Sidious, Dooku, and Anakin showing his first signs of 'turning' to the dark side. As it turns out, Zam Wessel was a very minor character who got killed off in the first 10 minutes of the film. I would say a 'spy' character would probably get similar treatment. He/She would be completely cool looking, and heavily promoted in the build up to the the film - but ultimately a very minor and unimportant character.

As for the question of Anakin's status at the start of the movie. I'm inclined to think he probably will still be part of the Jedi Order. Just because I think it's quite important to see why and how he gets kicked out. As the film suposedly begins with the end of the clone wars, I would certainly LIKE to see Anakin kicking ass for the Republic, as a Jedi Knight.

I never heard anything about a jedi spy ...but ok....whatever...I'll see if that's true in a few years

I dunno. Anakin married. If the time between II and III is like that between ESB and ROTJ, it'll only be a few months. So I guess the Jedi will know what he did. Would they wait THAT long? I doubt it.

Guess he is to dangerous to let go. But then again maybe that is the huge mistake the JC does

Well, I'm led to believe that the time period between episodes 2 and 3 is about 3 years (not confirmed I don't think) as this is roughly the time period of 'The Clone Wars', which culminates at the begining of film 3.

With regards to the JC knowing 'what he did' I pressume you mean either:

a) the hate-filled slaughter of the tuskens on tatooine (can't think of anything else that might get him expelled)

or

b) his marriage to amidala, which is forbidden in the Jedi Code.

In both cases, I don't suppose there's any reason why the JC would even know about them. The only person told about Anakin's delve into 'the dark side' was padme, who sympathised with him as she recognised his slaughter as a means of venting his anger towards the tuskens for causing the loss of his mother, and like their marrigae (which was witnessed only by 3po and r2) is probably kept a secret by the two lovers. Who knows why Anakin is booted from the Jedi order? He and Padme have decided to undertake a forbidden relationship - perhaps by the end of the clone wars, the secrecy of their love is becoming too difficult? Maybe Anakin does something very dangerous at the end of the clone wars that endagers the life of other Jedi, in an attempt to rescue or save Padme - thus causing him to admit to them that she is his wife in order to justify his actions. Maybe his expletion has nothing to do with his marriage to Padme at all?

My guess is that once the Clone Wars have finished, he is expelled for keeping his marriage to Padme a secret, and he becomes bitter at the Jedi for having fought alongside them in battle and then been expelled once the war was over. Something like that.

blah

One question why bump this?

Originally posted by finti
dont think the Emperor has a lightsaber

yes he does moron.

What the hell did this return for?

What the... Bumping two year old threads with "Blah"?

You deserve a swift kick in the nuts

ha i was just doing that to bring all the way up here so it would look weird

You really are weird

Around here that is frowned upon.

Originally posted by Fishy
What the... Bumping two year old threads with "Blah"?

You deserve a swift kick in the nuts

Hold on, I think I got some cowboy boots around here somewhere.

hey i didnt do nuthing wrong

Well there was a rumor of a spy on the council.. many suspected Mace. But the truth of the matter is... that it was Anakin who was placed on the council to spy on the council for Sidious.

dude this was 2 years ago nobody cares

Originally posted by Obi-wan2005
dude this was 2 years ago nobody cares

You are the one that bumped this ****ing topic.