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2 of the best fighters in the universe meet for the first time. Orion does the same thing in his series. Meaning he takes off his Harness and Mother Box. Strictly hth battle. Orion can use his speed and strength, though.

New God Vs Legionnaire.

Despite KK's prowess, there's a limit to how durable an enemy he can injure. And Orion could just do some Mid-Herald-Level Thunderclaps and/or ground stomps to keep KK on the defensive, since his durability isn't much beyond peak human.

So the New God for the stomp. Skill only takes you so far. KK would need probably meta-level base physical stats before his skill could bridge the gap between the two.

Originally posted by Digi
Despite KK's prowess, there's a limit to how durable an enemy he can injure. And Orion could just do some Mid-Herald-Level Thunderclaps and/or ground stomps to keep KK on the defensive, since his durability isn't much beyond peak human.

So the New God for the stomp. Skill only takes you so far. KK would need probably meta-level base physical stats before his skill could bridge the gap between the two.

He put a beating on a Daxamite. Made him cough up blood. Depending on what Val we're using. He can also shatter Interon, the strongest metal in the DCU.

that same argument was used for thor, kk would supposedly create a counter wave that would intercept or reverse the air pressure/shock wave back at thor (even though it would travel at approx the speed of sound)

Originally posted by cloud102
He put a beating on a Daxamite. Made him cough up blood. Depending on what Val we're using. He can also shatter Interon, the strongest metal in the DCU.

I'm very aware of his feats, but you're right. We just have to assume peak usage of powers and abilities for forum fights. In such a scenario, Orion wins. KK is a normal human whose skills make him probably High Meta or Low Herald depending on the opponent (and presuming it's PC interpretations of KK). But there's still a limit.

And yeah, he countered an earthquake, but could he really generate the same force as Orion? Thor? I doubt it.

Which argument? Val has redirected Monel in midair.

Originally posted by Digi
I'm very aware of his feats, but you're right. We just have to assume peak usage of powers and abilities for forum fights. In such a scenario, Orion wins. KK is a normal human whose skills make him probably High Meta or Low Herald depending on the opponent (and presuming it's PC interpretations of KK). But there's still a limit.

And yeah, he countered an earthquake, but could he really generate the same force as Orion? Thor? I doubt it.

He's an evolved human. Nit picking, but he did counter Monel, Superboy, and the Fatal Five. All who are Top Tier.

Originally posted by cloud102
He's an evolved human. Nit picking, but he did counter Monel, Superboy, and the Fatal Five. All who are Top Tier.

Counter isn't the same as beat. And holding his own for a while against, say, Superboy, is impressive as hell. But it's about where he tops off. Put Superboy is bloodlust-mode, and can you really see Val winning?

Originally posted by Digi
Counter isn't the same as beat. And holding his own for a while against, say, Superboy, is impressive as hell. But it's about where he tops off. Put Superboy is bloodlust-mode, and can you really see Val winning?

During Silver Age, Val stated he knew forms of MA that could put a hurting on meta humans. Then he demonstrated that with a mind controlled Superboy. Note, he did NOT want to harm him.

Originally posted by Digi
Counter isn't the same as beat. And holding his own for a while against, say, Superboy, is impressive as hell. But it's about where he tops off. Put Superboy is bloodlust-mode, and can you really see Val winning? that same fight written nowadays would have been different, superboy wouldn't even have to be mad at all.

3boot Val could do well with Jeans Superboy. Jeans Superboy vs Silver Age Val would get murdered.

Originally posted by cloud102
During Silver Age, Val stated he knew forms of MA that could put a hurting on meta humans. Then he demonstrated that with a mind controlled Superboy. Note, he did NOT want to harm him.

oh, we're playing the "I'm not going to answer questions but bring up irrelevant feats" game?

Can we use post-crisis Val, if that's alright?

I've never read post-crisis Legion of Super-Heroes, but I'm sure somebody can come up with some compelling reasons and/or post crisis feats for claiming that Val wins.

Yes, comparing Silver Age Superboy to Orion is irrelevant.

Post Crisis, Val? As in 3boot? He's not that impressive, IMO.