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Who takes this?

WW slaps namor with a tuna and kills him with a swordfish.

in the End we have Namor flavored Sushi

Easy dudE...it's WonderMAN

Namor takes a swordfish and makes Wonderman into Wonder Woman.

THEN Wonder Woman kills him.

Simon kills him

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Namor takes a swordfish and makes Wonderman into Wonder Woman.

THEN Wonder Woman kills him.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Namor takes a swordfish and makes Wonderman into Wonder Woman.

THEN Wonder Woman kills him.

Namor wins.

Wonder Man 10/10.

Simon crushed Namor in their only fight.

Its a travesty what has been done with Wonder Man in the past 6-7 years.

Wonder Man has casually traded blows with Hulk, Thor and the Thing.

It was often stated that he hit as hard as Mjolnir.

Namor defenders, you are out of luck here.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Wonder Man 10/10.

Simon crushed Namor in their only fight.

Its a travesty what has been done with Wonder Man in the past 6-7 years.

Wonder Man has casually traded blows with Hulk, Thor and the Thing.

It was often stated that he hit as hard as Mjolnir.

Namor defenders, you are out of luck here.
Classic Simon =/= Current Simon.

Current loses.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Wonder Man 10/10.

Simon crushed Namor in their only fight.

And in that one and only fight, didnt Simon hit Namor from behind or while he was fighting other Avengers? Or when he started to dehydrate?

Originally posted by jrodslam
And in that one and only fight, didnt Simon hit Namor from behind or while he was fighting other Avengers? Or when he started to dehydrate?

Yes, but that fight was also started by Namor basically suckering punching them, as they didn't expect him to attack. So it evens out.

Besides, Simon's punch knocked Namor clear off the platform whereas Namor's flying kick only knocked Simon down.

On paper, Wonderman should win.

On paper. In reality, Namor dig a new ******* in the face of Simon.

Originally posted by jrodslam
And in that one and only fight, didnt Simon hit Namor from behind or while he was fighting other Avengers? Or when he started to dehydrate?

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y19/killrave/155J.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y19/killrave/155K.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y19/killrave/155L.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y19/killrave/155M.jpg

What we have just seen is a pure, unadulterated, beating.

That actually seemed pretty even until Simon got the jump on him. Namor withstood Simon's attack, and then underestimated him. Simon then hit Namor back, and Namor came back and gave as good as he got. Then while he busy, Simon jumped him and knocked him out.

That was far from Simon crushing Namor.

Notice Beast saying " Subby, No! we're your----" I'd say the Whizzer distracting Namor even out the "sucker shot" factor.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
That actually seemed pretty even until Simon got the jump on him. Namor withstood Simon's attack, and then underestimated him. Simon then hit Namor back, and Namor came back and gave as good as he got. Then while he busy, Simon jumped him and knocked him out.

That was far from Simon crushing Namor.

Simon KO'd Namor with one punch. That strike with the column alone isn't enough to weaken Namor.

I see it as Simon raising the bar after the intiial punch didn't put Namor down. He references his hesitance at using full force in the beginning of the fight.

Conversly, Namor is going all out as he perceives them as a threat to Atlantis. The crazed look in his eyes attest to that.

Simon has knocked around Count Nefaria in this era and survived shots from his as well.

Wonderman wins. He won't be getting weaker as the fight progresses.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Simon KO'd Namor with one punch. That strike with the column alone isn't enough to weaken Namor.

I see it as Simon raising the bar after the intiial punch didn't put Namor down. He references his hesitance at using full force in the beginning of the fight.

Conversly, Namor is going all out as he perceives them as a threat to Atlantis. The crazed look in his eyes attest to that.

Simon has knocked around Count Nefaria in this era and survived shots from his as well.

Have to take in account that Namor may have already been weakened from being out of water for a period of time. The strike with the column wasnt enough to weaken Namor? Its clear that being hit with it did cause Namor pain.

Namor definately isnt going all out, because if he were, whizzer and beast would have been dead.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Wonderman wins. He won't be getting weaker as the fight progresses.

In that time, id agree that the longer the fight progresses, the better it looks for WM. Then or now, if namor's wearing his suit, he wins.

Originally posted by jrodslam
In that time, id agree that the longer the fight progresses, the better it looks for WM. Then or now, if namor's wearing his suit, he wins.

this match seems like slug fest

WM i think is significantly stronger than namor so he should win , isn't he faster also his bio says he's got superspeed

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Simon KO'd Namor with one punch. That strike with the column alone isn't enough to weaken Namor.

I see it as Simon raising the bar after the intiial punch didn't put Namor down. He references his hesitance at using full force in the beginning of the fight.

Conversly, Namor is going all out as he perceives them as a threat to Atlantis. The crazed look in his eyes attest to that.

Simon has knocked around Count Nefaria in this era and survived shots from his as well.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Have to take in account that Namor may have already been weakened from being out of water for a period of time. The strike with the column wasnt enough to weaken Namor? Its clear that being hit with it did cause Namor pain.

Namor definately isnt going all out, because if he were, whizzer and beast would have been dead.

Originally posted by jrodslam
In that time, id agree that the longer the fight progresses, the better it looks for WM. Then or now, if namor's wearing his suit, he wins. I've never been impressed with the alleged wet-suit. In his last mini series he needed to jump into the water 2 or 3 different times to get his nuts back.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Have to take in account that Namor may have already been weakened from being out of water for a period of time. The strike with the column wasnt enough to weaken Namor? Its clear that being hit with it did cause Namor pain.

Namor definately isnt going all out, because if he were, whizzer and beast would have been dead.

Regarding Namor going all out.

Beast was already rendered unconscious and Whizzer was stunned. Before he could strike again Simon stops him and knocks him off the platform.

The shock of seeing the Whizzer's face had Namor pause for a moment but everything that preceded it was a full fledged attack.

To the column, I would think being hit by Hulk, Thing and Hercules would rank higher on the scale of damage and yet Namor has taking several blows from all of them not folded.

Namor wins.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Regarding Namor going all out.

Beast was already rendered unconscious and Whizzer was stunned. Before he could strike again Simon stops him and knocks him off the platform.

The shock of seeing the Whizzer's face had Namor pause for a moment but everything that preceded it was a full fledged attack.

To the column, I would think being hit by Hulk, Thing and Hercules would rank higher on the scale of damage and yet Namor has taking several blows from all of them not folded.

Again, a Namor going all out would have killed Beast and definitely whizzer considering his body would be more fragile than Beasts.

Well you may be right regarding the column, but its clear that from the scan, him being hit with it cause him pain. He even groaned in pain. Makes me even wonder further if namor's strength started to deplete.

it depends on which wonderman will show up, but i say namor

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Wonder Man 10/10.

Simon crushed Namor in their only fight.
lies and propaganda


namor was whoopin' simon and ares in their avengers/invaders fight. sure it was a young namor from another time but it's still canon

Originally posted by namorsubby
it depends on which wonderman will show up, but i say namor

lets hope this Wonderman doesn't show up.

I'd go with Simon. He has less restrictions.

Originally posted by namorsubby
lies and propaganda


namor was whoopin' simon and ares in their avengers/invaders fight. sure it was a young namor from another time but it's still canon

No lies or propaganda, simply truth.

The original post didn't designate the current Simon who has been VASTLY depowered for almost a decade.

The real Wonder Man trades blows with Count Nefaria and Thor with ease.

In one fight Thor was so pressed that he had to charge up Mjolnir to take down Simon.

I really hope someone revamps the character and brings him back to prominence.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
No lies or propaganda, simply truth.

The original post didn't designate the current Simon who has been VASTLY depowered for almost a decade.

The real Wonder Man trades blows with Count Nefaria and Thor with ease.

In one fight Thor was so pressed that he had to charge up Mjolnir to take down Simon.

I really hope someone revamps the character and brings him back to prominence.
Co-signed.

You know, I've spotted a really annoying tendency in regards to to Wonder Man. He gets a new look and they call him more powerful than ever, and then they unofficially downgrade him to below his level before the change .

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
No lies or propaganda, simply truth.

The original post didn't designate the current Simon who has been VASTLY depowered for almost a decade.

The real Wonder Man trades blows with Count Nefaria and Thor with ease.

In one fight Thor was so pressed that he had to charge up Mjolnir to take down Simon.

I really hope someone revamps the character and brings him back to prominence. lol, you might wanna take the time to examine my post along with the statement i responded to



I, namorsubby, called that particular statement what it is because They have more than one fight, and namor didn't lose the 2nd.


also, just being honest here guys, everyone knows their first fight wasn't close to fair...........and that anyone with such strength could KO namor with a couple of huge sucker punches like that........he had something like a super-battering ram for the first sucker, come from behind blow for god's sake.

in reference to their first fight:

I'd assume some people want to justify WW suckering namor by stating how WW's previous blows affected him, but when you think of how hard wonderman was going(the guy thought he was fighting for his friend's lives after all), and then consider how easily namor recovered, i'd be doubtful. some people also wanted to point out how namor's retaliation blow didn't have as much as a visual effect, but come on, it's obvious namor was simply slapping him on the wrist for standing in the way of his actual objective by aligning himself with "the enemy". He wasn't engaging him all out mano e mano like WW came at him, because he knew he had more than him to take care of

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y19/killrave/155J.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y19/killrave/155K.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y19/killrave/155L.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y19/killrave/155M.jpg

What we have just seen is a pure, unadulterated, beating. Nice.

What we have just seen is pure context less Bull shit. Simon suckered Namor.

Yea I know but it's still impressive.

Taking Simon.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/35308/2208116-avengers192075xt.jpg

this is about as close as it can get imo. i'd take namor i think for something like 5.5/10.... he's just a smarter fighter and more brutal. just enough to tip the edge in his favour ever so slightly imo.

Originally posted by leonidas
this is about as close as it can get imo. i'd take namor i think for something like 5.5/10.... he's just a smarter fighter and more brutal. just enough to tip the edge in his favour ever so slightly imo.
In your opinion, how do you explain that Namor has done better against common foes than Simon has?

Compare Simon/Herc to the multiple Namor/Herc fights.
Compare Abom/Simon to Abom/Namor (and keep in mind Namor and crew just got through fighting the Avengers).

Then you have the Namor/Simon fight were Namor was distracted by Whizzer when Simon put him down vs the Simon/Sentry/Ares vs Namor fight were Namor was making an absolute fool out of Simon.

Other than that first fight where Simon kayoed Namor have they fought again?

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Other than that first fight where Simon kayoed Namor have they fought again?
You know the context behind that KO but, yes they did fight and Simon was getting schooled hardcore by Namor despite the fact that Ares and Sentry were there to assist Simon.

Again, you know this too since abhi provided the scans. But don't let that stop you from your trollish behavior.

Originally posted by zopzop
You know the context behind that KO but, yes they did fight and Simon was getting schooled hardcore by Namor despite the fact that Ares and Sentry were there to assist Simon.

Again, you know this too since abhi provided the scans. But don't let that stop you from your trollish behavior. Wait.....What? What scans?

Originally posted by zopzop
In your opinion, how do you explain that Namor has done better against common foes than Simon has?

Compare Simon/Herc to the multiple Namor/Herc fights.
Compare Abom/Simon to Abom/Namor (and keep in mind Namor and crew just got through fighting the Avengers).

Then you have the Namor/Simon fight were Namor was distracted by Whizzer when Simon put him down vs the Simon/Sentry/Ares vs Namor fight were Namor was making an absolute fool out of Simon.

well, the abom fight wasn't pretty for simon, no doubt. but abom has also taken it to hulk several times. of course, he's also been literally one-shotted by herc and ko'd by logan. my point: not sure i'd look at fights vs abomination and give them TOO much credence tbh. namor also took care of him pretty easily underwater--as he should but i thought the fight was a lot closer on the surface. can't recall all the details though so maybe you remember better than i do.

there's also a scene where simon shows he dwarfs ben in strength, but we've seen ben and namor fight to virtual standstills many times. simon also had a great showing against thor once, and seemed to be the stronger (when GM and death were competing i think....) wm has also easily handled goliath/atlas a couple times and i find that more impressive than handling abomination.

all that said, you could be right and i may be short-changing namor some. maybe 6-6.5/10 would be a better guess....

Originally posted by leonidas
there's also a scene where simon shows he dwarfs ben in strength, but we've seen ben and namor fight to virtual standstills many times.

You know we've argued before but I respect your opinion and see where you're coming from.

Quick question regarding this quote, are you referring to the time Thing/Simon fought and Thing tried to lift that big dumbell? Did we ever see Simon actually working out with that dumbell? Because we don't know if he would strain to lift it like Thing did.

The reason I ask this is because it wasn't Thing fighting Simon in that fight, it was Thing vs Simon AND Xemu. Every time Thing had Simon on the ropes, Xemu would jump in and run interference for Simon. In fact, he was the one that warped that weight around Thing giving Simon time to recover and renew his attack against Thing.

Didn't that dumbell only weigh 3 tons?

Originally posted by zopzop
You know we've argued before but I respect your opinion and see where you're coming from.

Quick question regarding this quote, are you referring to the time Thing/Simon fought and Thing tried to lift that big dumbell? Did we ever see Simon actually working out with that dumbell? Because we don't know if he would strain to lift it like Thing did.

The reason I ask this is because it wasn't Thing fighting Simon in that fight, it was Thing vs Simon AND Xemu. Every time Thing had Simon on the ropes, Xemu would jump in and run interference for Simon. In fact, he was the one that warped that weight around Thing giving Simon time to recover and renew his attack against Thing.

lol

zop, you of all people should know by now i never remember grudges and/or old arguments. but yeah, i was talking about the dumbbell scene. i know xemnu wrapped it, but i was always under the impression simon grabbed it with one hand and threw it. if i'm wrong about that it would be good to know since i've referenced that before. did you have some proof that simon was amped somehow or that xemnu did most of the lifting there...? i guess it's possible, i've just never seen proof that that was what happened. if ben was beating simon during the rest of the encounter though, then you've def got another point in your favor though there is the whole mind control thing....ben beat a puppet master controlled simon AND she-hulk once. just goes to show how mind control can cloud match ups....

regardless you've def made me rethink and remember some things here that have convinced me my initial assessment was incorrect.

Originally posted by leonidas
lol

zop, you of all people should know by now i never remember grudges and/or old arguments. but yeah, i was talking about the dumbbell scene. i know xemnu wrapped it, but i was always under the impression simon grabbed it with one hand and threw it. if i'm wrong about that it would be good to know since i've referenced that before. did you have some proof that simon was amped somehow or that xemnu did most of the lifting there...? i guess it's possible, i've just never seen proof that that was what happened. if ben was beating simon during the rest of the encounter though, then you've def got another point in your favor though there is the whole mind control thing....ben beat a puppet master controlled simon AND she-hulk once. just goes to show how mind control can cloud match ups....

regardless you've def made me rethink and remember some things here that have convinced me my initial assessment was incorrect. \
Oh I'm not saying Simon was amped. Just that he had help from Xemu during that fight any time Ben had the advantage. We know it was Xemu that manipulated the dumbell but I can't say if he was helping Simon lift it/throw it. We got to consider that fact that, yes Simon was under mind control but Ben didn't want to hurt Simon either so he wasn't going all out.

fair enuff. looking at everything a little closer i'd say 7/10 is prolly closer to what would happen, depending on time out of water, environment and so on.

Your politeness sickens me.

Simon beats the fishman.

ZopZop knows better than to challenge my assesment!

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Simon beats the fishman.

ZopZop knows better than to challenge my assesment!
Silence!

We were cool but then you appointed yourself Leader of the House of El without any sort of vote!

From that day forward we became sworn enemies! starwars

Originally posted by zopzop
Silence!

We were cool but then you appointed yourself Leader of the House of El without any sort of vote!

From that day forward we became sworn enemies! starwars

I SEIZED the mantle of leadership in an hour of need!

Voting is unnecessary when you are the PEOPLE'S CHAMPION!

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Wait.....What? What scans?

Originally posted by -K-M-

Namor vs. Sentry, Iron Man, Ares and Wonder Man

1. http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j165/A_Flight10/AvengersInvanders-006_zps9e0c7783.jpg
2. http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j165/A_Flight10/AvengersInvanders-007_zps7ddcbc32.jpg
3. http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j165/A_Flight10/AvengersInvanders-008_zpsd371d25a.jpg
4. http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j165/A_Flight10/AvengersInvanders-009_zps6d441b7d.jpg
5. http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j165/A_Flight10/AvengersInvanders-011_zps2b9c88f6.jpg
6. http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j165/A_Flight10/AvengersInvanders-012_zpsc998acb6.jpg
7. http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j165/A_Flight10/AvengersInvanders-013_zps54b50b60.jpg
8. http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j165/A_Flight10/AvengersInvanders-014_zps07213c29.jpg
*Keep in mind this is WW2 era Namor as well.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Namor takes a swordfish and makes Wonderman into Wonder Woman.

THEN Wonder Woman kills him.

Originally posted by leonidas
well, the abom fight wasn't pretty for simon, no doubt. but abom has also taken it to hulk several times. of course, he's also been literally one-shotted by herc and ko'd by logan. my point: not sure i'd look at fights vs abomination and give them TOO much credence tbh. namor also took care of him pretty easily underwater--as he should but i thought the fight was a lot closer on the surface. can't recall all the details though so maybe you remember better than i do.

there's also a scene where simon shows he dwarfs ben in strength, but we've seen ben and namor fight to virtual standstills many times. simon also had a great showing against thor once, and seemed to be the stronger (when GM and death were competing i think....) wm has also easily handled goliath/atlas a couple times and i find that more impressive than handling abomination.

all that said, you could be right and i may be short-changing namor some. maybe 6-6.5/10 would be a better guess....
Well geting stabbed in your head is different from a punch. And also I beleive that was not canon.

Still taking Simon. Namor is too dumb to win. Just like this scan, if he was weakened, why not take the couple of seconds to fall into the water after Simon punched him? Sorry, Namors a dumbass and would lose.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y19/killrave/155K.jpg

Good point.

Originally posted by zopzop
You know the context behind that KO but, yes they did fight and Simon was getting schooled hardcore by Namor despite the fact that Ares and Sentry were there to assist Simon.

Again, you know this too since abhi provided the scans. But don't let that stop you from your trollish behavior.

They weren't trying to kill Namor at the time, only to subdue him. Hell, the Sentry himself thrashed Namor around an entire city block for a few panels before and surely could have killed him with ease if he didn't get called away (and that was just a pissed off Sentry teaching him a lesson). Even Namor with his ego and bravado knew he couldn't win, but only try. You act as though Namor is some God because of the WM, Ares, and Sentry encounter when its clear he isn't.

Simon wins.

Originally posted by tkitna
They weren't trying to kill Namor at the time, only to subdue him. Hell, the Sentry himself thrashed Namor around an entire city block for a few panels before and surely could have killed him with ease if he didn't get called away (and that was just a pissed off Sentry teaching him a lesson). Even Namor with his ego and bravado knew he couldn't win, but only try. You act as though Namor is some God because of the WM, Ares, and Sentry encounter when its clear he isn't.

Simon wins.
That's not the only reason, abhi and I gave others, the most important being common foes.

Namor tooled Simon. And I love the fact that you try to BS saying they weren't trying to kill him as if somehow takes away from him schooling those three. Need I remind you Ares was definitely out for blood and even tried to stick his axe in Namor's back when Namor wasn't looking but Namor was too fast for him.

Namor wins.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Your politeness sickens me.

Originally posted by zopzop
That's not the only reason, abhi and I gave others, the most important being common foes.

Namor tooled Simon. And I love the fact that you try to BS saying they weren't trying to kill him as if somehow takes away from him schooling those three. Need I remind you Ares was definitely out for blood and even tried to stick his axe in Namor's back when Namor wasn't looking but Namor was too fast for him.

Namor wins.

Ares is a puss compared to the other 3 characters we're talking about here, so he should be put on the backburner. Regarding that lame storyline, Namor seemed to have tooled all three of them. Do you believe that Namor can tool Sentry? Seriously do you think this? Sure looked to happen in that storyline from what we saw. Curious as to what you have to say about that.

They weren't out to kill or hurt him (besides Ares, but we know how that usually works out for him), or they would have. Your trying to make Namor look like the crap because of this feat and I'm telling you it wasn't much of a feat at all. We all know better. Hell, the same storyline had Sentry running away scared from a 2nd rate Human Torch. Avengers/Invaders was garbage and doesn't hold any credibility among the comic community. Very poor example.

Originally posted by tkitna
Ares is a puss compared to the other 3 characters we're talking about here, so he should be put on the backburner. Regarding that lame storyline, Namor seemed to have tooled all three of them. Do you believe that Namor can tool Sentry? Seriously do you think this? Sure looked to happen in that storyline from what we saw. Curious as to what you have to say about that.

They weren't out to kill or hurt him (besides Ares, but we know how that usually works out for him), or they would have. Your trying to make Namor look like the crap because of this feat and I'm telling you it wasn't much of a feat at all. We all know better. Hell, the same storyline had Sentry running away scared from a 2nd rate Human Torch. Avengers/Invaders was garbage and doesn't hold any credibility among the comic community. Very poor example.

Not to sort of butt in to the argument but the whole Human Torch thing can be explained by Jim Hammond (if that is the same instance) exploiting his mental state by saying he is giving him power.

That isn't all to bad really. At least that is how I attempt to rationalise it.

Sentry looked superior to Namor during Dark Reigh era. Every panel shown in the fight Namor was getting tooled iirc.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Sentry looked superior to Namor during Dark Reigh era. Every panel shown in the fight Namor was getting tooled iirc.

This is the fight.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/116291/2180526-1.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/116291/2180528-2.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/116291/2180532-3.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/116291/2180533-4.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/116291/2180536-5.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/116291/2180537-6.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/101942/3235988-8.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/116291/2180540-8.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/116291/2180541-9.jpg

Originally posted by tkitna
Ares is a puss compared to the other 3 characters we're talking about here, so he should be put on the backburner. Regarding that lame storyline, Namor seemed to have tooled all three of them. Do you believe that Namor can tool Sentry? Seriously do you think this? Sure looked to happen in that storyline from what we saw. Curious as to what you have to say about that.

They weren't out to kill or hurt him (besides Ares, but we know how that usually works out for him), or they would have. Your trying to make Namor look like the crap because of this feat and I'm telling you it wasn't much of a feat at all. We all know better. Hell, the same storyline had Sentry running away scared from a 2nd rate Human Torch. Avengers/Invaders was garbage and doesn't hold any credibility among the comic community. Very poor example.
Then how do you explain their fights against common foes where Namor clearly did better?

Regarding Sentry, he's all over the place power wise. The Sentry that Namor took on during the DA saga was on the verge of going Void. So the fact that Namor did as well as he did against him is an accomplishment in and of itself. No one is saying Namor has a chance in Hell against Void, Voidtry, or even a high end Sentry. So cut that garbage out and don't put words in peoples mouth.

Tooling a non high end Sentry isn't that rare. Hercules did it and just like the Namor example, Sentry had back up (Venom was chewing on Hercules' head for phucks sake).

So Namor tooled Sentry/Ares/Wonderman and it's canon. Namor did better against Hercules in the MULTIPLE times they faced off than Simon did. Namor did better against Abomination than Simon did (despite the fact that he went up against Immortal Hercules and the Avengers just prior to that fight). Namor's done better against Hulk in the multiple times they faced off than Simon did (even the weakened and dehydrated Namor did better against Mindless Hulk unlike Simon that b|tched out and had a panic attack).

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Abomination under mindcontrol or some shit when Simon fought him?Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
This is the fight.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/116291/2180526-1.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/116291/2180528-2.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/116291/2180532-3.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/116291/2180533-4.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/116291/2180536-5.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/116291/2180537-6.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/101942/3235988-8.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/116291/2180540-8.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/116291/2180541-9.jpg Namor was clearly out of his league there.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Abomination under mindcontrol or some shit when Simon fought him? Namor was clearly out of his league there.
No, I think he was being blackmailed into going along with the villains.

Originally posted by zopzop
Then how do you explain their fights against common foes where Namor clearly did better?

I'm not trying to explain fights against common foes and Namors billion more appearances. Wonder Man has done just fine against higher end foes. He gave Thor as much as he could handle, hurt Nefaria (I doubt Namor could have done that), and flat out made the Thing look like 90 lb. weakling. I know Namors a tough customer, I just think a correctly written Simon would take a majority.



The Sentry that was beating Namor around was coherent and not Voidtry.



Namor has no chance against any incarnation of Sentry. I'm just pointing this out because you seem to feel so proud of yourself that Namor so called tooled the Sentry along with WM and Ares. I'm glad to see that even you are admitting that it was bullshit and you should probably quit bringing it up.



Oh God. You mean the comic relief writing that was the Hercules book? Who wrote that Pak? If so, enough said. Sentry wasn't even trying in the least against Hercules. You should be ashamed to even bring that up.



So you still want to use that as ammo for your argument although even you admitted Namor has no business messing with Sentry, yet the other two included? If those three characters meant business, Namor would die very quikly.



Hmm, how many times have Simon and Herc fought? I remember they exchanged punches and went out for beers. I remember Herc also ramming a quinjet down his throat when he was pretty much in some warrior madness state. Namor probably had more encounters. I just remember them fighting when Hercules wasn't trying to hurt him, but rather get him out of his depression. I also remember Namor admitting Hercules was stronger then him under water once (yikes). I don't see any clear cut winner there.



Yeah Simon struggled. Overconfident and busy being a movie star. A bit rusty if I remember correctly.



I'm sure he did. Namor and the Hulk fought about once a month ever since the 70's and those are great feats for him. Wont deny that. Doesn't mean I think he can beat Simon for a majority though. Simon is strong and durable enough to be knocked clear through planets and even a sun. I cant see Namor holding up under that kind of abuse.

Hey, its a good fight. I just think Simon edges him out.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Namor was clearly out of his league there.

Don't say that to loudly. Remember Namor tooled Sentry with WM and Ares together, so he must way above that showing.

Originally posted by tkitna
I'm not trying to explain fights against common foes and Namors billion more appearances. Wonder Man has done just fine against higher end foes. He gave Thor as much as he could handle, hurt Nefaria (I doubt Namor could have done that), and flat out made the Thing look like 90 lb. weakling. I know Namors a tough customer, I just think a correctly written Simon would take a majority.
Again, against COMMON FOES, Namor has done better. It's a fact. Whether you accept it or not, I don't care.

Simon made Thing look weak? Did you even read the comic? Thing was trouncing him and Xemu had to jump in and help Simon out. In fact, it was Xemu that warped that weight around Thing and allowed Simon to catch his breath and renew his attack. Yes, you can argue that Simon was mindcontrolled but Thing was HOLDING BACK not wanting to hurt Simon AND Simon had help MULTIPLE TIMES from Xemu.




Yes, that was a HIGH END SENTRY. Someone I just admitted Namor has zero business fighting.




Apparently Namor DOES have a chance against lesser versions of Sentry because he tooled him on panel, just like Hercules did.



Well we KNOW at least one of those characters meant business and was out for blood vs Namor. Namor shut him down and tooled Simon and held his own vs "angsty" Sentry.




They really only fought once and Hercules broke his phucking face. Namor and Herc fought multiple times and Namor more than held his own. All you have to do is google "Namor vs Hercules".




Yeah and Namor just got through fighting Hercules with other Avengers like Vision and Thunderstrike taking potshots at him, then when they peaced it up, Namor was jumped by Abomination.




Simon had his ARM BROKE in that fight with Hyperion that shook a "planetoid". Then he DIED when Hyperion pushed him through that PLANETOID and into the Sun. What's so great about that showing?

Namor fought Behemoth and it was causing PLANET wide earthquakes on Earth. Google the difference between a PLANETOID and a PLANET and tell me which is the more impressive feat. As a bonus, Namor didn't get his arm broke or die.


Believe what you want, I don't care. Just stop ignoring on panel evidence because you don't like the outcome.

Wm with little difficulty

Originally posted by h1a8
Wm with little difficulty

They are both roughly the same in terms of strength, but Namor is a better fighter. Simon is more powerful because of his genetic makeup, but they are roughly the same in the durability dept. What gives one the nod over the other is combat ability, and Namor's combat ability takes a dump on Simon's. Simon would be throwing mountain shakers that would often miss, while Namor would be hitting him with combo's.

Originally posted by Stoic
Simon is more powerful because of his genetic makeup, but they are roughly the same in the durability dept.
Do me a big favor? Hunt down the Incredible Hulk issues where Mindless Hulk took on the East/West Coast Avengers + She Hulk.

Tell me who, despite being out of his element for days and dehydrated by the desert heat, fought like a warrior and who was crying like a little girl begging the Hulk to get off him.

Originally posted by zopzop
Do me a big favor? Hunt down the Incredible Hulk issues where Mindless Hulk took on the East/West Coast Avengers + She Hulk.

Tell me who, despite being out of his element for days and dehydrated by the desert heat, fought like a warrior and who was crying like a little girl begging the Hulk to get off him.

Lol. I know the exact scene that you are talking about, and Simon was screaming for the Hulk to get off of him. He had a panic attack. This fight really comes down to who the superior combatant is. Namor is heads, and shoulders above Simon in that regard. If Simon had Steve's combat expertise, I would be voting for him, but Simon is an actor, and Namor is a warrior born.

Originally posted by Stoic
Lol. I know the exact scene that you are talking about, and Simon was screaming for the Hulk to get off of him. He had a panic attack. This fight really comes down to who the superior combatant is. Namor is heads, and shoulders above Simon in that regard. If Simon had Steve's combat expertise, I would be voting for him, but Simon is an actor, and Namor is a warrior born.
Yup, I knew you'd get the reference being a Hulk fan and all.

But it was more than a panic attack, Simon actually was fearing for his life. He always saw himself as invulnerable but he was having his faith in his durability challenged by the Hulk's strength!

Has Hulk ever physically overpowered Simon like he has done to Namor?

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Has Hulk ever physically overpowered Simon like he has done to Namor?
Yes, he's the Hulk. He's physically overpowered lots of people. But at least Namor got some wins against him.

Grey hulk overpowered Simon recently.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Has Hulk ever physically overpowered Simon like he has done to Namor?

He was stepping on his face.

Originally posted by Stoic
They are both roughly the same in terms of strength, but Namor is a better fighter. Simon is more powerful because of his genetic makeup, but they are roughly the same in the durability dept. What gives one the nod over the other is combat ability, and Namor's combat ability takes a dump on Simon's. Simon would be throwing mountain shakers that would often miss, while Namor would be hitting him with combo's. I disagree. Wm is significantly stronger th a normal Namor. Namor doesn't fight with skill hardly any of the time. He just brawls.

Originally posted by h1a8
Wm is significantly stronger th a normal Namor.
Proof?

Namor lifted Hydrobase from the bottom of the Hudson River by himself. He held Utopia (another island) while they were putting it's supporting pylons in place.

Simon was busting his ass attempting to merely BALANCE Hydrobase on hill with Invisible Woman helping him out.

Originally posted by h1a8
I disagree. Wm is significantly stronger th a normal Namor. Namor doesn't fight with skill hardly any of the time. He just brawls.

Yes but under forum rules they begin at tip top. You aren't under the impression that Namor has been out in the desert for hours cooking are you? With that being said, they are roughly the same strength class. Namor is the better fighter by far. Even if he isn't the Jet Li of comics, his combat experience is far greater than Simon's. You can have two guys of roughly the same strength square off in a boxing match, and if one of those guys is a far better pugilist than the other, it's going to be a no contest. Just Youtube some of Ali's fights in his prime, and you will get the picture.

Originally posted by zopzop
Simon made Thing look weak? Did you even read the comic? Thing was trouncing him and Xemu had to jump in and help Simon out. In fact, it was Xemu that warped that weight around Thing and allowed Simon to catch his breath and renew his attack. Yes, you can argue that Simon was mindcontrolled but Thing was HOLDING BACK not wanting to hurt Simon AND Simon had help MULTIPLE TIMES from Xemu.

I'm talking about Simon picking the weight that the Thing was wrapped up in with one arm and throwing it. A weight that the Thing could barely lift. Namor isn't going to show that kind of strength ever.



Lol. Oh God. I'm not sure what to say here. Namor couldn't beat Sentry on his worse day. Lets stop the crazy talk here.



Yes, the weakest character was out for blood (and got some). Hardly a great feat. Ares is a whipping boy. Yeah, he tooled Simon and Sentry. Same story line had Sentry running from a Human Torch because he was afraid of fire. Lol. Great example.



That same crazy Hercules would have broken Namors neck. There's no shame in having your face busted by a blood thirty Hercules. Hell Thor one shot Namor in the rain. I could never see Wonder Man getting one shotted. Seems the times Namor got the advantage over Hercules, they were in the water. That seems about right.



Nice feat.



I was meaning the Gladiator fight when Simon got punched into the ground, but your right, it was the Hyperion fight.



I cant find scans, but cool feat.



I've seen enough on panel evidence that I'm sticking with my opinion. I still think Simon is above Namor. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Originally posted by zopzop
Proof?

Namor lifted Hydrobase from the bottom of the Hudson River by himself. He held Utopia (another island) while they were putting it's supporting pylons in place.

Simon was busting his ass attempting to merely BALANCE Hydrobase on hill with Invisible Woman helping him out. That's impressive although I need to see the scans of the Utopia feat. Simon threw a tank at Hulk and it smashed to pieces on Hulk's body. The force that took to do that is easily in the hundreds of thousands of tons.

Isn't there a feat of Namor smashing a tank like it's made of tissue paper?
I need to see that again. Maybe you are right.

Originally posted by tkitna
Still taking Simon. Namor is too dumb to win. Just like this scan, if he was weakened, why not take the couple of seconds to fall into the water after Simon punched him? Sorry, Namors a dumbass and would lose.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y19/killrave/155K.jpg
One thing, you don't have to be stronger than a person to knock someone out, and Namor stopped fighitng midway and only then did WM knock out Namor. And this is pure lowball of Namor. You are lucky DarkCrawler isn't here anymore

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Abomination under mindcontrol or some shit when Simon fought him?
That was actually an improvement. Abomination was possesed by a supergenius+1000 year old warrior who was a much better and smarter fighter than Blonsky - Tyrannus. You know, some are even saying Abomination might've been not at his best due to Blonsky fighting the control. If you ask me about the latter part, I don't know.

Originally posted by h1a8
Wm with little difficulty
little difficulty you gotta be kidding me

Actually blonsky had his mind separated from abomination's body at that point. Tyrannus was the only mind in that body.

Originally posted by zopzop
Again, against COMMON FOES, Namor has done better. It's a fact. Whether you accept it or not, I don't care.
You're right. You know what, it's always bothered me that Thor curbstomped Namor in the first fight, totally dominated in the second, looked better in the third, and finally fought evenly in the fourth. But Namor does pretty well against Hercules and Beta Ray Bill, Thor's proven equals, and some of Thor's other equals. Atleast DC shows equal favortism. Have some consistency Marvel

Originally posted by abhilegend
Actually blonsky had his mind separated from abomination's body at that point. Tyrannus was the only mind in that body.
So that was after his appearance in Hulk Annual #15? IIRC, Simon had She-Hulk helping him out in between.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Grey hulk overpowered Simon recently.
That was before the ionic form upgrade though

Originally posted by h1a8
Namor doesn't fight with skill hardly any of the time. He just brawls.



Hmmm.

Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
One thing, you don't have to be stronger than a person to knock someone out, and Namor stopped fighitng midway and only then did WM knock out Namor. And this is pure lowball of Namor. You are lucky DarkCrawler isn't here anymore

Its not a lowball of Namor. Its right there on the panel. He just got his jaw smashed and for some reason did not seek the only thing that refreshes him and that's water that was mere feet away. He's a dumbass.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Then Venom was beating the shit out of him.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16068989/Uncanny_Avengers_009-014.jpg.html

Vs

Originally posted by abhilegend
Also do you know what happened when Venom got drop on Namor, weakened him with a weapon? Namor ripped his tongue out and beat the **** out of him.

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Namor%20titles/Battles/Revolution03g.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Namor%20titles/Battles/Revolution03h.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Namor%20titles/Battles/Revolution03i.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Namor%20titles/Battles/Revolution03j.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Namor%20titles/Battles/Revolution04a.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Namor%20titles/Battles/Revolution04b.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Namor%20titles/Battles/Revolution04c.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Namor%20titles/Battles/Revolution04d.jpg

Originally posted by zopzop
But it was more than a panic attack, Simon actually was fearing for his life. He always saw himself as invulnerable but he was having his faith in his durability challenged by the Hulk's strength!
He did the same against Count Nefaria. But that was more like PTSD after dying and being ressurected.
That's why I especially like this scene, after he gets over his fear. That was an awesome line. Too bad Thor knocked Simon's lights out afterwards.
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsWonderman02.jpg

Although, I wouldn't say Venom was beating the shit out of WM - but with the fire all around them etc, WM really should've done better.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Although, I wouldn't say Venom was beating the shit out of WM - but with the fire all around them etc, WM really should've done better.
So should have Juggernaut and many others. After all, Venom can increase his strength at will

Originally posted by tkitna
Its not a lowball of Namor. Its right there on the panel. He just got his jaw smashed and for some reason did not seek the only thing that refreshes him and that's water that was mere feet away. He's a dumbass.
Maybe he was too proud to? And maybe Namor thought he could still take him?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Although, I wouldn't say Venom was beating the shit out of WM - but with the fire all around them etc, WM really should've done better. But you would say Venom was beating the sh!t out of Colossus though? Hypocrite much?

Originally posted by h1a8
That's impressive although I need to see the scans of the Utopia feat. Simon threw a tank at Hulk and it smashed to pieces on Hulk's body. The force that took to do that is easily in the hundreds of thousands of tons.

Isn't there a feat of Namor smashing a tank like it's made of tissue paper?
I need to see that again. Maybe you are right. Yea I need to see the Utopia feet again but I don't think Namor supported the entire island. And I don't think Namor has smashed a tank before but he may have.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
But you would say Venom was beating the sh!t out of Colossus though? Hypocrite much?

Not at all. Because my reasoning (which you don't know about) is not hypocritical.

Although, you bandying the H word is...well, hypocritical.

My reasoning is that a background fight < the main fight. One is just a throwaway scene, the other is the main focus of the entire scene.

Then why use it for comparison? Venom was clearly destroying Simon there.

Was he? So he WAS beating the crap out of him?

Guess that's why it was shown. And before you accuse me of double standards, know that it isn't.

For example, we wouldn't have Black Panther in the background of a fight manhandling Simon like that, would we? Yes, its a background fight, but even that has limits. You show peers fighting each other. So Spidey won't be tussling with Sentry, or Moon Knight destroying Thor etc. The background fight has to be, for lack of a word, believable.

IOW, as far as the writers are concerned, Venom destroying Simon isn't that far fetched.

Then contrast and compare to the fight with Namor, who was blindsided and weakened.

I see double standard all in Darksaint post. Joke

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Was he? So he WAS beating the crap out of him?

Guess that's why it was shown. And before you accuse me of double standards, know that it isn't.

For example, we wouldn't have Black Panther in the background of a fight manhandling Simon like that, would we? Yes, its a background fight, but even that has limits. You show peers fighting each other. So Spidey won't be tussling with Sentry, or Moon Knight destroying Thor etc. The background fight has to be, for lack of a word, believable.

IOW, as far as the writers are concerned, Venom destroying Simon isn't that far fetched.

Then contrast and compare to the fight with Namor, who was blindsided and weakened. So why did you post the scans of Venom/Simon?

Originally posted by carver9
I see double standard all in Darksaint post.

Only if you deal in absolutes.

There are two fights in question here.

Venom/Colossus
Venom/Wonder Man

I compared these two to Venom/Namor.

Venom/Colossus and Venom/Namor were the main fights. Therefore, the writers spent more time and effort on them (or at least, the artists did).

Therefore, they hold more weight.

I was being kind to the Venom/WM fight, because, as I said, the fight was in the background. Therefore, it held less weight - hence my statement, I wouldn't say that Venom was beating the shit out of Simon, as per Abhi's words . If you want to argue that the fight is of the same standard as the Venom/Naor fight, be my guest.

BUT it does NOT mean it should be disregarded 100%, does it? I never said that. Like I said with my examples (Sentry/Spidey, Thor/Moon Knight), artists/writers usually have peers fighting each other in the background, or else, as in the case with Deadpool, hilariously outmatched. So whilst that fight holds LESS weight, it does NOT mean it never happened.

Carver is my bestest buddy in the wole wide world.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
So why did you post the scans of Venom/Simon?

But you compared a "background" Venom/Simon fight to a "main" Venom/Namor fight did you not?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Only if you deal in absolutes.

There are two fights in question here.

Venom/Colossus
Venom/Wonder Man

I compared these two to Venom/Namor.

Venom/Colossus and Venom/Namor were the main fights. Therefore, the writers spent more time and effort on them (or at least, the artists did).

Therefore, they hold more weight.

I was being kind to the Venom/WM fight, because, as I said, the fight was in the background. Therefore, it held less weight - hence my statement, I wouldn't say that Venom was beating the shit out of Simon, as per Abhi's words . If you want to argue that the fight is of the same standard as the Venom/Naor fight, be my guest.

BUT it does NOT mean it should be disregarded 100%, does it? I never said that. Like I said with my examples (Sentry/Spidey, Thor/Moon Knight), artists/writers usually have peers fighting each other in the background, or else, as in the case with Deadpool, hilariously outmatched. So whilst that fight holds LESS weight, it does NOT mean it never happened.

Carver is my bestest buddy in the wole wide world.

All of this for me? I was just playing, crazy. I should've typed 'joke' earlier in my post. Overall, I agreed with everything you said before and now.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
But you compared a "background" Venom/Simon fight to a "main" Venom/Namor fight did you not?

I did, because as I have said a fair few times now, it does not mean it never happened. And shows that the writers/artists/editors don't think its out of the realms of possibility for a fire surrounded Venom to give Simon a good fight.

Venom surrounded by his weakness can fight evenly with Simon (or, as per your words, clearly destroy Simon).
Venom blindsiding and using a special weapon on Namor gets his tongue ripped out and KOed.

Both events happened, and I was being generous when I said what I said. If you want to give it equal footing, please, by all means.

But please, point out the hypocrisy, rather than trying to entrap me with leading questions.

Originally posted by carver9
All of this for me? I was just playing, crazy. I should've typed 'joke' earlier in my post. Overall, I agreed with everything you said before and now.

This is why....

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Carver is my bestest buddy in the wole wide world.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I did, because as I have said a fair few times now, it does not mean it never happened. And shows that the writers/artists/editors don't think its out of the realms of possibility for a fire surrounded Venom to give Simon a good fight.

Venom surrounded by his weakness can fight evenly with Simon (or, as per your words, clearly destroy Simon).
Venom blindsiding and using a special weapon on Namor gets his tongue ripped out and KOed.

Both events happened, and I was being generous when I said what I said. If you want to give it equal footing, please, by all means.

But please, point out the hypocrisy, rather than trying to entrap me with leading questions. Then why even bring up "backround" and "main" fights in the first place? I agree it shows Venom getting the better of Simon there. Can't argue that.

Now lets move on to the Namor lifting Utopia feat that was mentioned a page or two back.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Then why even bring up "backround" and "main" fights in the first place? I agree it shows Venom getting the better of Simon there. Can't argue that.

I only brought it up because I was being generous. Maybe after that scene, WM turns around and chokes Venom out, or flies him out of the atmosphere, or duirng that scene, Simon asks Venom to make it look like a good fight so he can get Scarlet Witch's attention - I don't know what happened EXACTLY in that fight. Hence background/main fights having less/more weight.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I only brought it up because I was being generous. Maybe after that scene, WM turns around and chokes Venom out, or flies him out of the atmosphere, or duirng that scene, Simon asks Venom to make it look like a good fight so he can get Scarlet Witch's attention - I don't know what happened EXACTLY in that fight. Hence background/main fights having less/more weight. I'd also like to point out that in the Venom/Colossus rematch that Venom specifically states that the fire isn't doing anything other than pissing him off.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
I'd also like to point out that in the Venom/Colossus rematch that Venom specifically states that the fire isn't doing anything other than pissing him off.

Agreed. But it was still affecting him, even if it meant he was fighting at 99% rather than previously with fire, where he's almost dying.

And again, in the fight with Namor, he had no such fire (pissing him off or otherwise). Whereas Namor was gasping for breath previously.

I.e. a 99% Venom = 100% Colossus (and that's being generous, as it could've been Venom at 95% or whatever - it was clearly a distraction).

Vs.

A 100% Venom < a gasping on his knees, blindsided Namor. So....60%? 70%?

THAT is the main point I'm trying to make.

Namor and Utopia :
http://s401.photobucket.com/user/clokeagne_supernova/media/Namor%20Respect/Namor%20titles/Strength/xmenvsatlas02a.jpg.html

Namor lifting a WW II era destroyer :
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/121048/2471375-namor_strengthfeat.jpg

You can ask Abhi for the scan of Namor lifting/stopping (can't remember which) Doom's ship that was said to be the size of a small city. I had it but I can't find the scan.

Then you have the Namor/Blue Marvel fight vs WM/Sentry/Ares/CM/IM fight. BM was tooling the Avengers yet he admitted he beat Namor thanks to a lucky punch :
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/150x100q90/264/scan0015nq7.jpg

Originally posted by juggernaut74
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/35308/2208116-avengers192075xt.jpg

Originally posted by tkitna
I'm talking about Simon picking the weight that the Thing was wrapped up in with one arm and throwing it. A weight that the Thing could barely lift. Namor isn't going to show that kind of strength ever.
We KNOW that Xemu was manipulating that weight. That's how it wrapped itself around Ben. We KNOW that Ben was tooling Simon and Xemu had to jump in and save Simon multiple times (he even says so in the scan).

We KNOW that Simon could barely balance Hydrobase with IW helping him. We KNOW Namor lifted Hydrobase from the bottom of the Hudson River. We KNOW Namor supported Utopia while they were putting the support pylons in place. We KNOW Namor did this without any help.

Waiting on the Doom Cityship scan from Abhi. That basically seals the deal.




Then explain how Hercules and BM tooled 'angsty' Sentry despite the fact that Sentry had backup? Like it or not, Sentry isn't at 100% levels all the time. His power fluctuates based on his mental state.



The fact that they fought multiple times over the years (some not in the water) puts to lie your statement.



http://s401.photobucket.com/user/clokeagne_supernova/media/Namor%20Respect/Namor%20titles/Strength/TalesToAstonish080a.jpg.html
PLANET wide tremors without damaging your body > shaking a PLANETOID and having your arm broken no? Here is a size comparison of the PLANET Earth to the largest PLANETOIDS in our solar system as a reference :
http://s30.postimg.org/eda89h7vh/Eight_TNOs.jpg




That's fine.
Originally posted by juggernaut74

You realize islands weigh more than 50000 tons right?

Why do you need Abhi? DarkSaint is all you need.

Curse you, Abhilegend!!!!!

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Why do you need Abhi? DarkSaint is all you need.
Your links don't work

And this quote

is totally wrong.
Thor never lifted Hydrobase, to my knowledge (maybe Rage and chime in here), he only towed it.

We already saw WM never lifted it, only balanced it with Invisible Woman's help. It was the Lava Men pillar that was supporting the weight of the island.

The Quasar anecdote is wrong too. He actually DID manage to lift the ENTIRE island but only a few inches off the water.

I cursed him and shook my fist most angrily.

Yeah, don't know why I said that Simon lifted the island or quasar failed to lift it. Thor also just towed it.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, don't know why I said that Simon lifted the island or quasar failed to lift it. Thor also just towed it.
Meh, it happens to everyone.

Originally posted by zopzop
In your opinion, how do you explain that Namor has done better against common foes than Simon has?

Compare Simon/Herc to the multiple Namor/Herc fights.
You can't make a comparison with a single fight yu know. And Wonder Man was holding back against Hercules

Originally posted by zopzop Regarding Sentry, he's all over the place power wise. The Sentry that Namor took on during the DA saga was on the verge of going Void. So the fact that Namor did as well as he did against him is an accomplishment in and of itself. No one is saying Namor has a chance in Hell against Void, Voidtry, or even a high end Sentry. So cut that garbage out and don't put words in peoples mouth.
true
Originally posted by zopzop Tooling a non high end Sentry isn't that rare. Hercules did it and just like the Namor example, Sentry had back up (Venom was chewing on Hercules' head for phucks sake).

Hercules didn't tool him. He made Sentry look bad when Bob was holding back

Originally posted by tkitna hurt Nefaria (I doubt Namor could have done that)
Wow, lowballing much? Any mid high class 100 should be able to do it.



Originally posted by tkitna Oh God. You mean the comic relief writing that was the Hercules book? Who wrote that Pak? If so, enough said.
Hah, classic case of writer being crap when they write what they don't like and then making them god when they write something they like.


Originally posted by tkitna Simon is strong and durable enough to be knocked clear through planets and even a sun. I cant see Namor holding up under that kind of abuse.
Being crushed in a fight against someone and then killed by something isn't a feat

Originally posted by Stoic
They are both roughly the same in terms of strength, but Namor is a better fighter. Simon is more powerful because of his genetic makeup, but they are roughly the same in the durability dept. What gives one the nod over the other is combat ability, and Namor's combat ability takes a dump on Simon's. Simon would be throwing mountain shakers that would often miss, while Namor would be hitting him with combo's.
Originally posted by Stoic
Lol. I know the exact scene that you are talking about, and Simon was screaming for the Hulk to get off of him. He had a panic attack. This fight really comes down to who the superior combatant is. Namor is heads, and shoulders above Simon in that regard. If Simon had Steve's combat expertise, I would be voting for him, but Simon is an actor, and Namor is a warrior born.
What you say reminds me of another scene, Namor curbstomping Cap as he should, and displaying some fighting skills as well
http://s1255.photobucket.com/user/undominanthybrid/media/Order%20vs%20Avengers/OrdervsAvengers15_zps0bb3f11a.jpg.html?sort=9&o=14

which version of wonderman is this? Same version that choked out red hulk? Classic? Ionic? Etc.

He's definetly has had his highs, but also has some lows (getting beat by Arachne and getting ko'ed by green goblins pumpkin bombs)

Originally posted by tkitna Namor has no chance against any incarnation of Sentry. I'm just pointing this out because you seem to feel so proud of yourself that Namor so called tooled the Sentry along with WM and Ares. I'm glad to see that even you are admitting that it was bullshit and you should probably quit bringing it up.

Originally posted by tkitna
Lol. Oh God. I'm not sure what to say here. Namor couldn't beat Sentry on his worse day. Lets stop the crazy talk here.

Lowballing again. Sentry's lowest is being torn up by a dog. Namor's so weak?



Originally posted by tkitna
That same crazy Hercules would have broken Namors neck. There's no shame in having your face busted by a blood thirty Hercules. Hell Thor one shot Namor in the rain. I could never see Wonder Man getting one shotted. Seems the times Namor got the advantage over Hercules, they were in the water. That seems about right.

Yet Namor held his own vs Hercules several times

Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
So should have Juggernaut and many others. After all, Venom can increase his strength at will Examples of this?

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Examples of this?
Ever heard of Venom Vulking out?

Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
Ever heard of Venom Vulking out? Yea I've seen it. But is there narration stating his power goes up or is this just theories?

Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
Maybe he was too proud to? And maybe Namor thought he could still take him?

Or maybe he's a dumbass. Lets see, I just got punched through a wall and water is the thing that gives me strength, and holy cow, water is right there within reach, but i'll go back into the fight and wont bother.

Namor was counting sheep shortly after. Great plan.

Originally posted by zopzop

We KNOW that Xemu was manipulating that weight. That's how it wrapped itself around Ben. We KNOW that Ben was tooling Simon and Xemu had to jump in and save Simon multiple times (he even says so in the scan).

So because Xemu wrapped the barbell around Ben, you assume he helped Simon lift it? Nowhere did the book say that. As a matter of fact, Xemu even mentions that Simon had fully recovered and would take care of the matter then. Your seeing it as you want to see it. Ben was tooling him because Xemu was mind controlling him. Not sure, but i'm betting Xemu isn't the best H2H fighter around.



Was Namor supporting this from underwater? I cant see the scans, but i'm guessing he probably was.



A writer wanting to get a chuckle out of his audience and have a running joke. Nobody took that encounter seriously. I'm surprised your stooping to that level. She-Hulk punched Sentry right in the mouth and he didn't fight back. I'm sure you think that Jen can beat him up too right? Doom blasted Bob while Bob was 'angsty' as you said, and what did Stark say to him? He warned Doom that if he tried something like that again, Sentry would kill him. Same would happen to Namor.



Not sure what this response was to as I didn't go back and read. If it was Hercules, then no, I don't believe Namor can take him. Underwater he would win some, on land, no. That's just my opinion. I don't have all if their encounters to base it off of though.



I really don't know how much an island weighs. Tell us.

Wonder Man at his best beats up Namor at his best, but on average it's a pretty close fight with Namor getting the edge, underwater at least, due to consistency if nothing else. That's up until the last decade. Things have become more convoluted since. Namor looked noticeably superior in one of their fights then Wonder Man became more confident again and was at a level where he'd wreck everyone this side of Thor/Superman not to mention the other powers he unlocked.

Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
Lowballing again. Sentry's lowest is being torn up by a dog. Namor's so weak?

Fill me in on this feat. Its passed me by it seems.



A bloodlusted Hercules? Do you have the scans?

Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
Lowballing again. Sentry's lowest is being torn up by a dog. Namor's so weak?




Yet Namor held his own vs Hercules several times

Don't think he was torn up?

He was never torn up by a dog.

Bitten by Normie but not how you said it.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Wonder Man at his best beats up Namor at his best, but on average it's a pretty close fight with Namor getting the edge, underwater at least, due to consistency if nothing else. That's up until the last decade. Things have become more convoluted since. Namor looked noticeably superior in one of their fights then Wonder Man became more confident again and was at a level where he'd wreck everyone this side of Thor/Superman not to mention the other powers he unlocked.

This sums up this entire thread. Nothing else need be said. Well done Rage.

Originally posted by tkitna
So because Xemu wrapped the barbell around Ben, you assume he helped Simon lift it? Nowhere did the book say that. As a matter of fact, Xemu even mentions that Simon had fully recovered and would take care of the matter then. Your seeing it as you want to see it. Ben was tooling him because Xemu was mind controlling him. Not sure, but i'm betting Xemu isn't the best H2H fighter around.
But Simon COULDN'T deal with him and Thing went after Xemu again and he fled, then Thing freed Simon from the mind control.

Xemu wasn't fighting him physically, he was using his TK/TP to help Simon because thing was waxing his ass. Xemu mentions on panel that he was complete control over inanimate objects. That would include lifting them, which he's done before.

All this while Thing admitted to holding back as not to hurt Simon.


He was.


Except it happened AGAIN when he fought BM with the rest of the Avengers. So it happened vs Hercules, vs Namor, vs BM (who Namor fought by the way and BM admitted he won via a lucky punch). But the only time it's PIS is when Namor does it? Whatever.


Then maybe you should before lowballing Namor? Every time they fought, Namor never got his sh|t pushed in vs Herc the way Simon did. Ever.




Hint, they weigh MORE than 50000 tons.

Originally posted by tkitna
Fill me in on this feat. Its passed me by it seems.



A bloodlusted Hercules? Do you have the scans?

He's talking about this but I don't really see Robert being torn up.

http://i.imgur.com/R1UKRnJl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/UANeO0Wl.jpg

And I could think of a couple of reasons for this happening.

I remember a old Avengers issue where Namor was restrained underwater while Hercules was able to push through it to Namor's surprise.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
I remember a old Avengers issue where Namor was restrained underwater while Hercules was able to push through it to Namor's surprise.
Yeah, it was when they brought back Jean Grey.

That was a low point in Namor's life though. Hercules snapped him out of it later.

Namor has tooled Herc underwater so the point is moot.

Originally posted by zopzop
Yeah, it was when they brought back Jean Grey.

That was a low point in Namor's life though. Hercules snapped him out of it later.

Namor has tooled Herc underwater so the point is moot. The point isn't moot. In the water Hercules is stronger than Namor while Namor should win a fight due to his mobility. My point was that Hercules is stronger but that don't mean he'll win a fight in the depths.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
The point isn't moot. In the water Hercules is stronger than Namor while Namor should win a fight due to his mobility. My point was that Hercules is stronger but that don't mean he'll win a fight in the depths.



i'd say herc is the stronger, even under water, but the difference is very minor and certainly open for debate. namor would kill him under water for multiple reasons. pretty sure namor has ko'd hulk underwater so that would be a point in namor's favour. very close, regardless. namor is a true beast below the waves....

Don't think Namor is as close to Herc in strength as most think. While Namor is super strong, wouldn't consider him high Herald strong like Herc is. Can anyone see Namor doing something like this to Thor?

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/1/18519/557528-thor_blood_oath__4_02.jpg

I can't.

Originally posted by zopzop

But Simon COULDN'T deal with him and Thing went after Xemu again and he fled, then Thing freed Simon from the mind control.

Xemu wasn't fighting him physically, he was using his TK/TP to help Simon because thing was waxing his ass. Xemu mentions on panel that he was complete control over inanimate objects. That would include lifting them, which he's done before.

All this while Thing admitted to holding back as not to hurt Simon.



Was Xemu helping Simon earlier in the book when he was working out with the same dumb bell that Ben could barely lift? Its not about Ben out fighting a mind controlled Simon here, its the fact that Simon is depicted as being much stronger then Ben, and he is.




BM's a puss if he had to admit that it took a lucky punch to put him down. I lost respect for the character now.




Namor never fought a crazed/bloodlusted Hercules that was shot with hydra tipped bullets either.



You know this how? Also, was Namor supporting Utopia whilst underwater? I am curious about that? Was Wonder Man supporting it in the air being assisted by his Jet Packs? Just curious.